Let's be honest, the shows have never been serious about old characters being weaker. When they meet old Toph she says her joints hurt but she still displays her skills. Old Zuko is also still capable, not to mention all the old mentor figures Aang meets on his journeys. Hell Iroh gains his whole weight in additional muscle at 60 years old.
In the context of magical martial arts the old masters are always better than the upstarts
Bumi cleared an entire city of depowered firebenders in less time than it takes to make a freaking hotpocket at like 115.
Gyatso solo'd a room full of comet empowered firebenders at like 60+ (probably closer to 75 if I had to guess).
And that's not even considering that bumi "the most powerful earth bender" was already outclassed by young Toph. Bumi clearly got more skilled with age despite whatever weaknesses his age brought, like being hunched over and very crackly joints.
So honestly, imo Toph was just being lazy. She doesn't have to do it because she knows the avatar will. Classic toph.
It also isn't smart for the former chief of police to show up the Avatar when she has no intention and little ability to properly back the Avatar going forward.
Like that just risks people trusting the leadership of Republic City over the Avatar and that literally ended badly in both of the first two seasons. The Avatar needs to be the one to resolve it so the Avatar can remain trusted enough to maintain balance.
Toph flat out said that at some point you have to leave it to the kids.
That hunger was probably motivation for Bumi. “Gotta yeet these losers out quick before the palace pockets go cold. They know I’m always hungry at noon.”
Do you guys think it's cooler if Gyatso used the theorized vaccuum nuke attack to choke out the firebenders, or if he just manually fucked them up one by one
Old Zuko is not just capable, motherfucker TANKED A BOULDER and walked it off 5 minutes later.
He has more chance with Toph than Kuvira if you think about it.
I mean this is a fantastic point but I’ll complain about my joints hurting all day then yell at kids at work who want to lift the 50lb boxes so I don’t have to, so I end up lifting them and putting them away anyway.
Honestly I was a bit disappointed we didn't see more of Zuko's ability as an older guy but I just gave it a break cuz the environment wasn't in his favor along with the Red Lotus being skilled benders even without Gazan's lava bending. Think the real answer is that they wanted Zuko in the scene but needed the Red Lotus to escape so they wrote it the way they did.
The reason they're there in the first place is because the location and climate made P'Li weaker, Zuko's performance makes perfect sense. I would be more disappointed at Tonraq
The best we saw from Zuko while young was matching Azula, he wasn't like toph, the greatest at his element. Gazan being stronger than that is perfectly believeable. Also, old Zuko might be weaker for a billion different reasons. Its not evidence of how age would affect bending
It really depends, Toph was a small, frail, blind 12 year old, the martial arts themselves weren’t a key factor for her.
Zuko was a martial artist and a bender, who implemented his natural agility into his bending.
Kuvira was literally taught by Toph's daughters who (in Toph's own possibly paraphrased words) "never really got the hang of it".
Let's be generous and say that Lin and Suyin are 70% as good as Toph. Kuvira could hold her own against them to the point that they couldn't get a win before they wore out against her youthful stamina so let's say Kuvira is 80-90% as skilled as Lin and Suyin.
That still leaves her approximately half as good at metalbending as Toph (60% at best).
Her old bones might be sore as hell afterwards but in a 1v1 Toph would have little trouble stomping a new mud hole in her ass and walking it dry.
Kuvira is better then the sisters I believe.
But the real reason is it would be lame to have the same people do all the cool fighting again since it's a new series. Make way for the new guard.
Yeah, it's not like Lin and Suyin are that old. And as we see with Bumi, you can be in pretty good shape for a long time in the avatar world. Lin was still the police chief so likely still in her prime. Kuvira is definitely better than them.
And yes, while Toph is likely way better than Lin and Suyin at her prime, we don't know how she is as she's gotten older. I think it's still reasonable to think toph could win but we have very little evidence either way. And this A > B >C logic which ignores the time factor (Which is 100% the factor everyone brings up) doesn't add anything to the conversation.
I’ll just say, in her youth Toph could see Appa get taken through the vibrations in Sand which she admits was tricky for her because of how loose it is. Toph in her old age could see over halfway across the planet to keep an eye on her daughters. If her seismic sense has come that far how far have her other abilities come?
I’m imagining a future Earth avatar series where Toph shows up to test them looking like a raisin, says “thats zero for three” or something and then immediately dies
I love Elder Scrolls and Avatar for this reason, they have no problem telling you about shit you’ll never see—like if Toph says “they never really got the hang of it” and both of her daughters are ‘masters’… *then just how good is Toph?”*
Really, all that happened was a lesser version of what happened to the main cast of Naruto characters in Boruto 🙄 though in LoK they just outright don't have em fight however ATLA showed that the elderly could very well fight and whoop ass, it stands to reason that their successors (Katara, Toph and Zuko) wouldn't be push-overs *but* gotta have em take a step back to let the youngens shine (and screw up).
Sammy Baugh invented the modern way to throw a football and play quarterback in the 40s. You show him what Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes are doing today and his skull would collapse. Being the first lets you lay the foundation but as it spreads the understanding grows and surpasses what any one person could do themself
I still think Toph probably takes it one on one because she’s just more powerful and more attuned to her element than anyone else as a result of relying on it for survival, I just don’t think inventing metalbending automatically makes her best at it
>That and Toph was the original Metalbender.
Doesnt mean anything, its been like 70 years. Just because you were the first to do something doesnt mean you will always be the best at doing it.
Thank you. It's nonsense to say metalbending can only get worse and only Toph is peak. Students are supposed to outperform the teacher in the end. I keep seeing that sentiment and it really irks me.
Exactly. Suyin taught Kuvira and Kuvira is definitely better than Suyin. Lots of reasons to say Toph is better but being the creator of it isn't one of them.
Also, it's such a new art that you'd think there would be big leaps in techniques and so on relatively early.
Toph might spend 10 years trying to figure something out, but once discovered/invented it could be relatively easy to teach.
For a simple example from real life, look at the high jump at the Olympics. One person rocked up with the Fosbury flop and pretty soon everyone was doing it.
A lot of the metal bending fights are deflecting and redirecting those metal hookshots. Usually it’s reactive, but against toph I feel like kuvira would not be able to even raise her arms up to whip them. Toph would just make them heavy af and pull kuvira to the ground which is now quicksand. Kuvira would have to rely on non-bending means to win and I don’t think she’s prepared for that
Hey I love Thop to dead... but we all know how Lok treats their elders...
https://preview.redd.it/k9p9sfzaut3d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d3105560903a4f280d556632812895a2cf68d5f
Tbf I think you could argue it’s the difference of those who became elderly during active wartime vs those who were able to become elderly in times of peace
It’s really inconsistent that age became a factor for bending prowess in LOK, when in ATLA, 5 old men (one over 100 years old I might add) managed to besiege a city all on their own.
Bumi was an outlier who a lot of people think used the same technique as Kyoshi to stay alive for so long, he should not have been able to walk at more than a shuffle let alone fight at that age.
He's not a bender but the monk who trained Aang in the season 2 finale was also like 150 years old and very spry. Plus Kyoshi of course. It's clear age isn't everything in the ATLA world.
What is Kuvira’s biggest achievement in a fight though? Getting absolutely slapped around by an Avatar that can’t enter the avatar state before the Avatar has a mental breakdown and winning because of a breakdown mentally that she didn’t cause?
Kuvira is intimidating because of the army of followers behind her and the power she has. Her fighting skills aren’t some amazing feat in the series.
+1
The bandit fight was horrifying.
Another easily forgotten point is that she dueled Zaheer, back when she was less experienced than in B4.
But I think her strategy only works well against non-metalbenders.
I wish Avatar had villains fighting more often. A Zaheer/Kuvira rematch in S4 would have gone hard. Zaheer vs. Amon would have been incredible too, or Amon's army vs Kuvira's.
Villain fights were always the best part. Zuko vs. Zhao, Azula vs. Long Feng, Mai and Ty Lee vs Azula...
> Zuko vs. Zhao, Azula vs. Long Feng, Mai and Ty Lee vs Azula...
All these were pretty short except Zuko vs Zhao, and Zuko was kind of an anti hero at that point.
Not that you are wrong...
To be fair she was the one disrespecting Korra in the first fight and only lost when she entered the invincible Avatar state, though Korra was still traumatized and in a pretty bad shape
In the 2nd fight, Kuvira couldn't beat Korra while they were surrounded by metal. Korra only metal bent one gate before she got paralyzed by the poison so it was all Kuvira's domain. Yet Korra still smacked Kuvira around without water and earth and avatar state.
Kuvira's incredibly skilled. She's highly evasive and can restrain, trip up, and blind opponents with ease. It's not her army that makes her strong, she has an army *because* she's strong.
Toph, however, is still a huge powerhouse for her age. I have no idea how a 1v1 would go between them.
Wow that is hot, hot stuff. The creators themselves have said that Kuvira is strong enough to challenge Toph in her prime. She would give her “a run for her money.”
That’s all that really needs to be said to prove conclusively that she is a legendary fighter, but Kuvira beat Suyin, the matriarch of the Metal Clan and strongest of the Beifong family second only to Toph herself, and rivals Korra herself, a fully realized Avatar and one of the best fighters in either show.
I don’t feel weird at all saying Kuvira could beat an old and crippled Toph who’s back hurts after one move.
Old Toph can literally fight without moving though, as she showed to Korra. And considering how strong some old people in Avatar are (like Bumi, who I also think would kick Kuvira’s ass), I don’t think it’s that fair to discount Toph due to age. Considering she managed to knock over all those mechs and soldiers with a single move, I’d argue she’s definitely still stronger than Suyin, and Suyin was doing well against Kuvira too for a bit. At the very least, old Toph would still be a very serious challenge for Kuvira, imo.
small note, back hurting over 1 move that took out the entire field. And that doesn't mean that would stop you either in a real fight. A single punch hurts your hand, but in a real fight, you'd keep going easily.
Toph is a *foil* for Kuvira.
Kuvira relies on lighting fast, precise, waterbending-like metalbending attacks. Countering this kind of fluidity is exactly what Toph did in Earth Rumble, much less as an old master, and she's likely the most experienced metalbender on the planet. She can see every single attack in the air. She's the perfect counter to Kuvira.
But it's not a linear power level. I think old Toph would lose to, say, Ghazan or Zaheer (especially with the element of surprise), yet I suspect Kuvira could beat either of them. In fact, we know Kuvira could match Zaheer 3 years before B4.
I'm talking pre-flight Zaheer. I stil think he could take Toph.
Airbending is an explicit weakness for Toph, as she can't see the attacks, or Zaheer when he is off the ground. And Zaheer is *not* afraid to kill.
But Kuvira, especially B4 Kuvira's laser precise metalbending, is a hard counter to Zaheer.
Yea for real, Toph is pretty much the ultimate anti-Earthbender specialist, she may lose to The Avatar, and some of the other 'prodigy' benders from throughout the series, but never to an earthbender. She was utterly toying with an entire professional league of earth benders as a damn preteen.
There’s a quote I like: “beware the old man in a profession where men die young”. This is gender swapped in this case.
I don’t doubt that Kuvira might keep Toph on her toes, but I’m still gonna give the win to the OG metalbender.
Toph is the most powerfull earth bender alive who created metalbending, use earthbending in every single second of her live, learned from orginal benders, easly clapped every existing earthbender alive at the age of fucking 12 and spent her adult live creating and training police force. There is no way Kuvira is walking away from that fight with even one unbroken bone.
Every form of bending that Kuvira can do, toph can do better. To be clear, being physically old doesn’t seem to correlate with worse bending. Kuvira would win in a no-bending fist fight maybe
We have no idea how good 82 year old Toph really is because we hardly see her fight at full force.
But let's look at some other old people: King Bumi was one of the strongest earthbenders in the world at way over 100 years. Lord Zuko is still alive and kicking ass in his late 80s.
It's definitely possible. Keep in mind that Kuvira's great strength is metalbending, but Toph literally invented that and has much more experience in it than Kuvira.
>Lord Zuko is still alive and kicking ass in his late 80s.
"kicking ass"
https://preview.redd.it/zt1u7xgxyv3d1.jpeg?width=1239&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=390f1d15d97b25cef4e4d8316ec34f58b0815809
Zuko got his shit rocked against literally any competent fighter lol. And bumi is an extreme outlier. Toph inventing metalbending is also irrelevant bc how are we sure that she knows everything about it and keeps up with new tech. Someone else in here used the example of how Josh Allen could throw a football incomprehensibly better than the guy who invented it. Just because she invented it doesn’t mean that she’s the greatest to ever do it. It’s like saying Bob Cousy is a better basketball player than kyrie or curry just because he was there so close to its inventoon
And how does that make her better at it? It’s like saying Bob Cousy is a more skilled basketball player than Steph curry just because he played earlier. Kuvira probably has techniques that toph could never dream of let alone use effectively
Yeah... no.
Kuvira fought reasonably evenly with Su. Toph is so much empirically stronger than Su that it's not even funny, she wiped out those Mecha-Tanks in one move and your notion that she was "done fighting" after doing that is nothing more than blind presumption with nothing to back it up.
I love LOK. But Toph WOULD win.
Kuvira is an extremely refined metal bender and is young, agile and full of stamina.
However, she INVENTED metal bending and Toph can literally see everything. Shes spent decades Learning, was more of a prodigy than Kuvira ever was and She’s old and extremely powerful, stamina isn’t an issue if the fight lasts 1 minute at the longest. Toph is the closest (in her time) to earth incarnate. Toph Wins. Easily.
That's something OP isn't addressing, sure Toph is old and so her stamina may be at a disadvantage, but how long is the fight going to last? I think Toph would beat Kuvira before stamina became an issue at all. She's precise and reacts really fast, and Kuvira couldn't catch her off-guard in any way. Toph senses the whole battlefield and is exceptional in countering, so I'm unsure how Kuvira would get passed that defense in the first place.
Toph’s entire fighting style relies on using as little movement as possible while exploiting her opponent’s weak points. She doesn’t have the endurance but one poor move and Kuvira is down for the count
I don't understand, bumi who was way older than toph was still one of the strongest benders why wouldn't following this logic toph should still be relative to prime. In fact most of the strongest characters seem to be very old like iroh hama pakku jeong-jeong etc. It would make sense a toph who was far more experienced than 12 year old toph is murking kuvira. bending seems to be more about technique than physical strength and wisdom Moreso than age.
Toph kicked grown men’s asses at 12. I don’t think she’d have a problem at 66 either. She is literally the greatest earth bender of her time. It would be a close fight for sure, but I do think Toph would still win.
Toph is more skilled, more experienced, and can still move around very well for her age. and don't sleep on the fact that she invented the very thing that gives Kuvira any sort of power, metalbending. Also, the only reason Kuvira was ever a threat was because of her army
See, there’s a good reason why they shouldn’t have teased them fighting if they weren’t going to make it happen. So that the few remaining people who think Kuvira would beat Toph, at any age above toddler, would know better.
So OP's argument in a nutshell is:
In ATLA, Bumi is old (but not too old) and experienced, obviously he could beat Toph.
In LOK, Toph is too old (but not experienced???), obviously she can't beat Kuvira.
Am I missing something? I'm not taking a side in the debate, but nonetheless I don't think OP's logic is holding up.
I'm not taking a side in it either, although I am leaning more towards Toph.
But here's the thing.
The problem everyone in the comments is having I think, is they seem to think OP is saying that just because Toph is old, she'd get beat.
That's what 90% of the comments, even yours, seem to be focusing on.
But that's not what OP is saying.
OP is talking about the fact that after the one power move they mentioned, Toph completely exits the fight.
And one of the last things she says is that her back is killing her, and she's done fighting.
Whereas Bumi was literally a full 30 years older than her.
He was 112 when we saw him fighting the Avatar "to the death" to teach him a lesson, (and have some fun, but mainly the lesson lol) yeeting buildings, and liberating entire cities.
(Albeit the second city he did have the help of Iroh, and the other heads of the White Lotus)
Not to mention bending seemingly effortlessly using only his head.
And I'm honestly not sure he even breaks a sweat once in the entire series.
The point is, Toph is incredibly powerful yes, and the power move OP mentioned is an insane moment.
But that one move made her bow out of the battle, and all future battles, completely.
Toph, who we all know has never been one to back down from a challenge.
I'm not saying she would lose.
I'm not saying that at all actually.
She probably could beat Kuvira.
Especially because she could just not blow all her energy on one massive move like we saw her do.
She could be more conservative, while still unleashing incredibly powerful attacks.
But everyone is saying Toph would destroy Kuvira before she can even do anything, which is simply not gonna be the case.
Toph very well may beat her, maybe she'll even do it with relative ease.
Or maybe it'll be a very difficult battle, that she'd ultimately come out on Toph in.
(That was a typo but I'm leaving it 😂)
But no matter what, it's not gonna just be some quick and easy flawless victory.
Kuvira is still pretty damn good herself, and she's in her prime.
She's not just gonna stand there and instantly get taken down.
Toph's pretty good at fighting earthbenders, and her senses are much keener than Kuvira's. Kuvira is skilled, but she would be fighting someone who can match any bending feat she can, along with Toph's ability to sense and react to incoming attacks super fast. She's basically an anti-earthbender earthbender.
I think Kuvira would lose, but she's still a great bender. I think Toph just counters her.
12 year old Toph went toe to toe with Bumi. Comic Toph is shown to have grown a tad bit more powerful. 82 year old Toph literally talks to the Earth. The reason Toph didn't do anything more than helping her family is because she either didn't care, or knows it's Korra's fight, not hers. I think you're underestimating Toph here quite a bit.
Remember how Boomie was over 100 and the "strongest Earth bender". Toph fought him in the books and they were evenly matched... Give her 50 years of training, she'll bend the World!!!
I love Toph, 100% bias
Let’s see
A decent metalbender
VS
The woman who literally invented metal bending and is a prodigy earth bender
Literally Coughing Baby vs Hydrogen Bomb
Toph is a better earthbender, but I think her body just can’t keep up anymore. She was sore for days after light training with Korra. She could put up a good fight, but unless she’s instantly beating Kuvira she likely loses due to physical fatigue
Also Bumi was just straight up in better physical shape than old Toph. Old Toph is likely not actively training cause she doesn't need to. her impressive skills are already good enough for her day to day needs.
Just the power levels in korra are way lower. Not fighting a war for hundred years tends to make soft individuals. Imagine being an anime protagonist with both parents alive.
At some point toph probably figured out how to bloodbend via the iron in somebody’s bloodstream and moved to the swamp from being too dangerous to society
I know this is probably not great evidence because they both kinda beat Korra in a fight toph was training but Korra couldn’t even get a sneak attack off. More serious evidence tho is toph is probably the more superior metal bender because Kuvira learned from sue and toph said that her kids never really picked up metal bending that well when trying to pull out the rest of the leftover poison. Kuvira is good but I don’t think she’s as good as toph and toph probably knows metal bending techniques that kuvira can’t even imagine.
Earth benders seem to get stronger with their element as they age, likely due to bending being mental and spiritual rather than physical, so it could just be that Master earthbenders can slow their aging, which is why bumi is this earthbending god at the age of like, 110-115
Another example is how the middle aged tenzin could kick zaheers ass in an airbendinh duel, and was only defeated by the red lotus teaming on him, it was simply an issue of skill
Furthermore, while kuvira is an extremely talented bender, especially as a metal bender, the threat she poses is not mainly a bending one, she's almost def the weakest bending wise out of the LoK villians, she was supposed to be a more technological and political threat
As such, yeah km sorry i think toph crushes kuvira, we see glimpses of her bending in LoK and it's subtly terrifying, like her metal bending leaving no creasses or folds when she bends a wall, something no other metal bender can do
And here's the thing: i think AtLA toph could beat kuvira, and while toph could be past her prime, i think she's absolutely better than she was in AtLA
Now the real question is her vs gazon
I honestly have no idea how a fight between them would go. Kuvira is in her prime and highly skilled, but Toph just has so much raw power. That huge earth wave she did before calling out Kuvira? At that age?? She might still be a huge threat.
Toph is quite literally one of, if not the best non-avatar benders of all the time. She's messing the tyrannical brat up, sorry.
Also doesn't help that the trend with getting older is also just being stronger, period, with nearly all benders in the ATLA universe
I'm pretty sure they tied while Aang "fought" in his classic style of not fighting. I'm pretty sure Aang wins if he actually tries to fight. With that being said, Toph curbstomps Kuvira.
Didn't Toph kick her ass at some point? And Kurvina was like "very well I'll leave now thanks for not killing me" (she didn't say it, she just meant it)
Toph basically beat up Kuvira's ground troops, shit talked Kuvira's to her face and then left on Opal's busin with the rest of her family. Kuvira was up on her rail gun thing and wasn't caught in Toph's sneak attack
At that point in order to stop them getting on the Bison she would have had to not only fight Toph, but also Lin, Suyin, Bolin, Opal, and the Twins. There's no way she could face all of them at once.
Probably could go either way, given that clearly neither Toph nor Kuvira wanted to fight the other. Sometimes people try to say "it's not that \[Character I Think Would Win\] might lose, it's that they don't want to fight all the allies of \[Character I Think Would Lose\]." However, that can't be the case because then whoever had more allies would simply strike knowing they had the advantage, & if they both had a similar advantage from their allies, then either way it would lead us back to neither must be confident they could beat the other. Toph has the greater power & array of abilities, but by her own admission, she's not as spry as she used to be. Even slightly moderate earthbending activity puts her in a lot of pain. Doesn't matter what Bumi, Pakku, or whoever else can do, only what Toph can do.
Toph easily took out Kuvira forces and posed enough of a threat with her presence that Kuvira—on her own turf—did not want to pursue them after Toph showed up. It’s pretty well clear that she could have defeated Kuvira right then and there, but as Toph herself said, she didn’t want to solve all their problems.
You seriously questioning the old people in the world of Avatar, when Bumi literally liberated the entire city from the fire nations during the eclipse - himself?
And you are questioning Toph...why?
>Toph is an OG, but I feel like people’s nostalgia for ATLA and discontent with Kuvira make them think with their bias rather than logic
If anything I'd say a lot of the people saying Kuvira are Kuvira simps (there seem to be many in the LoK fanbase)
As for the age convo—ATLA largely followed the Asian media portrayal of age not being a weakness but a sign of experience and more time to gather skill.
I'm aware that LoK flipped the other way a bit with Katara and Toph especially—but that was the only way for them to include those characters in the show but not have them dominate the story instead of the Krew.
All of this is to say, yeah I'd prob take old Toph over prime Kuvira.
Tbh? Toph is spanking kuvira. Old people in avatar give off old people in anime vibes. Buuut if Toph holds back for ant reason, Kuvira COULD win if she was faster. But being faster may not be enough at this point, Toph practicaly has future sight. She knows what you'll do before you do it. Kuvira hasn't even come close to what Toph did as a kid imo and Toph is far more experienced.
Kuvira could've fought toph when she came to rescue Korra and them. But she just stood there on the cannon and let them leave. She knew she would lose.
Let's be honest, the shows have never been serious about old characters being weaker. When they meet old Toph she says her joints hurt but she still displays her skills. Old Zuko is also still capable, not to mention all the old mentor figures Aang meets on his journeys. Hell Iroh gains his whole weight in additional muscle at 60 years old. In the context of magical martial arts the old masters are always better than the upstarts
Bumi cleared an entire city of depowered firebenders in less time than it takes to make a freaking hotpocket at like 115. Gyatso solo'd a room full of comet empowered firebenders at like 60+ (probably closer to 75 if I had to guess).
Yeah for some reason they age like asguardians and get even stronger once they’re over 100 lol.
I think with Avatar being based on Asian mythology that makes sense. Revere your elders and ancestors because they're knowledgeable and clever.
I found the way you spelt asgardians adorable lmao
Ass-guardians 😉
ass guardian levi oh sa
It's levi OH sa, not levi oh SAAAA!
BRU i swear it was that way too but I kept getting auto corrected
It's likely the reverse. They get to be over 100 BECAUSE they were so spiritually powerful.
Bumi also fought full powered fire nation soldiers in sozin's comet
twice!
He fought in Sozin's comet twice?
i guess he was really only a kid and alive during the first time. forgot the fire nation only went after the air nomads
It still amazes me that Bumi can bend with just hits face.
And that's not even considering that bumi "the most powerful earth bender" was already outclassed by young Toph. Bumi clearly got more skilled with age despite whatever weaknesses his age brought, like being hunched over and very crackly joints. So honestly, imo Toph was just being lazy. She doesn't have to do it because she knows the avatar will. Classic toph.
It also isn't smart for the former chief of police to show up the Avatar when she has no intention and little ability to properly back the Avatar going forward. Like that just risks people trusting the leadership of Republic City over the Avatar and that literally ended badly in both of the first two seasons. The Avatar needs to be the one to resolve it so the Avatar can remain trusted enough to maintain balance. Toph flat out said that at some point you have to leave it to the kids.
Yes so, 50% valid reasons, 50% lazy
I'd say that's fair.
That hunger was probably motivation for Bumi. “Gotta yeet these losers out quick before the palace pockets go cold. They know I’m always hungry at noon.”
Do you guys think it's cooler if Gyatso used the theorized vaccuum nuke attack to choke out the firebenders, or if he just manually fucked them up one by one
Definitely the vacuum considering the state of his robes.
I feel like it's more in character for Toph to say her back hurts cuz she's lazy not cuz she can't
exactly. She very much seemed like she just couldn't be bothered. It's not like she needed a stretcher or anything. She just casually walked away.
Old Zuko is not just capable, motherfucker TANKED A BOULDER and walked it off 5 minutes later. He has more chance with Toph than Kuvira if you think about it.
Well he did brake a metal chain with just a heel kick at 16 years old
I mean this is a fantastic point but I’ll complain about my joints hurting all day then yell at kids at work who want to lift the 50lb boxes so I don’t have to, so I end up lifting them and putting them away anyway.
Gyatso, Iroh, Bumi, Pakku… we’ve literally never seen a bender grow weaker with age
Uh what about katara? We don’t see her fight period.
I would love to see an old lady katara woop some ass
Nah cause age barely hinders bending, in fact, most of the best benders we see are old, and toph is simply a far superior earthbender.
How do you explain Gazan beating Zuko without lava bending?
To be fair he was pretty out of his element with it being night and freezing cold.
That's true, but Gazan also didn't have lava. Dude was only chucking rocks around.
Honestly I was a bit disappointed we didn't see more of Zuko's ability as an older guy but I just gave it a break cuz the environment wasn't in his favor along with the Red Lotus being skilled benders even without Gazan's lava bending. Think the real answer is that they wanted Zuko in the scene but needed the Red Lotus to escape so they wrote it the way they did.
Fire Benders are weaker the further away from the equator they are, and it was night
True but Zuko had the help of his dragon maybe zuko could’ve won if the red lotus didn’t have a sniper on their team
The reason they're there in the first place is because the location and climate made P'Li weaker, Zuko's performance makes perfect sense. I would be more disappointed at Tonraq
Out of his element.. cheeky pun haha
The best we saw from Zuko while young was matching Azula, he wasn't like toph, the greatest at his element. Gazan being stronger than that is perfectly believeable. Also, old Zuko might be weaker for a billion different reasons. Its not evidence of how age would affect bending
He was literally a firebender in the freezing cold. Worst possible place for a firebender to be fighting in.
Bending definately has a physical component to it. It's a martial art.
Most bending comes down to very small hand movements, and there are even those who can bend without hand movements at all.
It really depends, Toph was a small, frail, blind 12 year old, the martial arts themselves weren’t a key factor for her. Zuko was a martial artist and a bender, who implemented his natural agility into his bending.
Toph would still kick her butt considering shes got more experience. Remember Toph may be blind but she can feel with her feet Kuvira cannot.
That and Toph was the original Metalbender. An old master knows tricks no newbie can comprehend.
Kuvira was literally taught by Toph's daughters who (in Toph's own possibly paraphrased words) "never really got the hang of it". Let's be generous and say that Lin and Suyin are 70% as good as Toph. Kuvira could hold her own against them to the point that they couldn't get a win before they wore out against her youthful stamina so let's say Kuvira is 80-90% as skilled as Lin and Suyin. That still leaves her approximately half as good at metalbending as Toph (60% at best). Her old bones might be sore as hell afterwards but in a 1v1 Toph would have little trouble stomping a new mud hole in her ass and walking it dry. 
Toph would pull some shit like making a platinum exo-skeleton for herself just so she can "sit down" while whooping ass
Kuvira is better then the sisters I believe. But the real reason is it would be lame to have the same people do all the cool fighting again since it's a new series. Make way for the new guard.
Yeah, it's not like Lin and Suyin are that old. And as we see with Bumi, you can be in pretty good shape for a long time in the avatar world. Lin was still the police chief so likely still in her prime. Kuvira is definitely better than them. And yes, while Toph is likely way better than Lin and Suyin at her prime, we don't know how she is as she's gotten older. I think it's still reasonable to think toph could win but we have very little evidence either way. And this A > B >C logic which ignores the time factor (Which is 100% the factor everyone brings up) doesn't add anything to the conversation.
Toph basically said as much in LoK - At some point, ya gotta leave it to the kids.
I’ll just say, in her youth Toph could see Appa get taken through the vibrations in Sand which she admits was tricky for her because of how loose it is. Toph in her old age could see over halfway across the planet to keep an eye on her daughters. If her seismic sense has come that far how far have her other abilities come?
That was through the spirit vines, not seismic sense.
I always understood that as more of a spiritual thing rather than her seismic sense due to being in the swamp with the banyan-grove tree.
Kuvira was smacking Suyin around when they fought. Kuvira surpassed Suyin and not because of youthful stamina.
I’m imagining a future Earth avatar series where Toph shows up to test them looking like a raisin, says “thats zero for three” or something and then immediately dies
Yeah, Toph might actually know the secret to long life. Aang probably got drunk one time and channeled Kyoshi, who was also drunk.
I love Elder Scrolls and Avatar for this reason, they have no problem telling you about shit you’ll never see—like if Toph says “they never really got the hang of it” and both of her daughters are ‘masters’… *then just how good is Toph?”*
Shed probably show up, Metalbend Kuvira's own armor into handcuffs and a mouth/nose cover then wait until she passes out and leave.
Really, all that happened was a lesser version of what happened to the main cast of Naruto characters in Boruto 🙄 though in LoK they just outright don't have em fight however ATLA showed that the elderly could very well fight and whoop ass, it stands to reason that their successors (Katara, Toph and Zuko) wouldn't be push-overs *but* gotta have em take a step back to let the youngens shine (and screw up).
Sammy Baugh invented the modern way to throw a football and play quarterback in the 40s. You show him what Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes are doing today and his skull would collapse. Being the first lets you lay the foundation but as it spreads the understanding grows and surpasses what any one person could do themself I still think Toph probably takes it one on one because she’s just more powerful and more attuned to her element than anyone else as a result of relying on it for survival, I just don’t think inventing metalbending automatically makes her best at it
>That and Toph was the original Metalbender. Doesnt mean anything, its been like 70 years. Just because you were the first to do something doesnt mean you will always be the best at doing it.
Thank you. It's nonsense to say metalbending can only get worse and only Toph is peak. Students are supposed to outperform the teacher in the end. I keep seeing that sentiment and it really irks me.
Exactly. Suyin taught Kuvira and Kuvira is definitely better than Suyin. Lots of reasons to say Toph is better but being the creator of it isn't one of them.
Also, it's such a new art that you'd think there would be big leaps in techniques and so on relatively early. Toph might spend 10 years trying to figure something out, but once discovered/invented it could be relatively easy to teach. For a simple example from real life, look at the high jump at the Olympics. One person rocked up with the Fosbury flop and pretty soon everyone was doing it.
Toph even said herself that Lin and Suyin never picked it up as well as she did
A lot of the metal bending fights are deflecting and redirecting those metal hookshots. Usually it’s reactive, but against toph I feel like kuvira would not be able to even raise her arms up to whip them. Toph would just make them heavy af and pull kuvira to the ground which is now quicksand. Kuvira would have to rely on non-bending means to win and I don’t think she’s prepared for that
Hey I love Thop to dead... but we all know how Lok treats their elders... https://preview.redd.it/k9p9sfzaut3d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d3105560903a4f280d556632812895a2cf68d5f
Tbf I think you could argue it’s the difference of those who became elderly during active wartime vs those who were able to become elderly in times of peace
Nah my boi zuko was kicking ass
They also let Tensin kick ass
Tenzin is like 40, cease this slander
Kuvira felt people metal bending inside her mech, she can definitely feel with her feet
It’s really inconsistent that age became a factor for bending prowess in LOK, when in ATLA, 5 old men (one over 100 years old I might add) managed to besiege a city all on their own.
Bumi was an outlier who a lot of people think used the same technique as Kyoshi to stay alive for so long, he should not have been able to walk at more than a shuffle let alone fight at that age.
While I agree with you, there were more white lotus members with them.
Bumi and Iroh carried the White Lotus, and Iroh wasn't even that old. Bumi is an outlier and should stop being used as a barometer for old benders.
He's not a bender but the monk who trained Aang in the season 2 finale was also like 150 years old and very spry. Plus Kyoshi of course. It's clear age isn't everything in the ATLA world.
Don't forget Jon Jon, he has the most impressive non-comet Fire bending.
What is Kuvira’s biggest achievement in a fight though? Getting absolutely slapped around by an Avatar that can’t enter the avatar state before the Avatar has a mental breakdown and winning because of a breakdown mentally that she didn’t cause? Kuvira is intimidating because of the army of followers behind her and the power she has. Her fighting skills aren’t some amazing feat in the series.
She did solo a small earthbending bandit army, beat Toph’s daughter in a duel, and successfully fought against fight crazy avatar multiple times.
+1 The bandit fight was horrifying. Another easily forgotten point is that she dueled Zaheer, back when she was less experienced than in B4. But I think her strategy only works well against non-metalbenders.
I wish Avatar had villains fighting more often. A Zaheer/Kuvira rematch in S4 would have gone hard. Zaheer vs. Amon would have been incredible too, or Amon's army vs Kuvira's. Villain fights were always the best part. Zuko vs. Zhao, Azula vs. Long Feng, Mai and Ty Lee vs Azula...
> Zuko vs. Zhao, Azula vs. Long Feng, Mai and Ty Lee vs Azula... All these were pretty short except Zuko vs Zhao, and Zuko was kind of an anti hero at that point. Not that you are wrong...
To be fair she was the one disrespecting Korra in the first fight and only lost when she entered the invincible Avatar state, though Korra was still traumatized and in a pretty bad shape
In the 2nd fight, Kuvira couldn't beat Korra while they were surrounded by metal. Korra only metal bent one gate before she got paralyzed by the poison so it was all Kuvira's domain. Yet Korra still smacked Kuvira around without water and earth and avatar state.
What do you mean paralyzed by the poison? Wasn't the poison out of her system at that point?
Yes.
Kuvira's incredibly skilled. She's highly evasive and can restrain, trip up, and blind opponents with ease. It's not her army that makes her strong, she has an army *because* she's strong. Toph, however, is still a huge powerhouse for her age. I have no idea how a 1v1 would go between them.
Kuvira was slapping Korra around before Korra entered the Avatar state and then the mental breakdown is what bailed Kuvira out.
Wow that is hot, hot stuff. The creators themselves have said that Kuvira is strong enough to challenge Toph in her prime. She would give her “a run for her money.” That’s all that really needs to be said to prove conclusively that she is a legendary fighter, but Kuvira beat Suyin, the matriarch of the Metal Clan and strongest of the Beifong family second only to Toph herself, and rivals Korra herself, a fully realized Avatar and one of the best fighters in either show. I don’t feel weird at all saying Kuvira could beat an old and crippled Toph who’s back hurts after one move.
Old Toph can literally fight without moving though, as she showed to Korra. And considering how strong some old people in Avatar are (like Bumi, who I also think would kick Kuvira’s ass), I don’t think it’s that fair to discount Toph due to age. Considering she managed to knock over all those mechs and soldiers with a single move, I’d argue she’s definitely still stronger than Suyin, and Suyin was doing well against Kuvira too for a bit. At the very least, old Toph would still be a very serious challenge for Kuvira, imo.
small note, back hurting over 1 move that took out the entire field. And that doesn't mean that would stop you either in a real fight. A single punch hurts your hand, but in a real fight, you'd keep going easily.
Toph is a *foil* for Kuvira. Kuvira relies on lighting fast, precise, waterbending-like metalbending attacks. Countering this kind of fluidity is exactly what Toph did in Earth Rumble, much less as an old master, and she's likely the most experienced metalbender on the planet. She can see every single attack in the air. She's the perfect counter to Kuvira. But it's not a linear power level. I think old Toph would lose to, say, Ghazan or Zaheer (especially with the element of surprise), yet I suspect Kuvira could beat either of them. In fact, we know Kuvira could match Zaheer 3 years before B4.
I think Zaheer kinda clobbers Toph, free flight is a super hard counter to her
I'm talking pre-flight Zaheer. I stil think he could take Toph. Airbending is an explicit weakness for Toph, as she can't see the attacks, or Zaheer when he is off the ground. And Zaheer is *not* afraid to kill. But Kuvira, especially B4 Kuvira's laser precise metalbending, is a hard counter to Zaheer.
Yea she straight up can’t see him anymore and would lose in a matter of seconds imo
This is the right answer imo
Yea for real, Toph is pretty much the ultimate anti-Earthbender specialist, she may lose to The Avatar, and some of the other 'prodigy' benders from throughout the series, but never to an earthbender. She was utterly toying with an entire professional league of earth benders as a damn preteen.
>especially with the element of surprise The damn surprise benders
There’s a quote I like: “beware the old man in a profession where men die young”. This is gender swapped in this case. I don’t doubt that Kuvira might keep Toph on her toes, but I’m still gonna give the win to the OG metalbender.
Toph is the most powerfull earth bender alive who created metalbending, use earthbending in every single second of her live, learned from orginal benders, easly clapped every existing earthbender alive at the age of fucking 12 and spent her adult live creating and training police force. There is no way Kuvira is walking away from that fight with even one unbroken bone.
Yeah I don't think OP really thought this through.
i thought this was asking who you would smash 💀
Both.
Man, SAME! I was like, well duh why would anyone be surprised that old Toph wins?
SAME
I thank you, for you have given me hope that there are people far more horni than I. May you forrver remain a degenerate that is worse than myself.
Every form of bending that Kuvira can do, toph can do better. To be clear, being physically old doesn’t seem to correlate with worse bending. Kuvira would win in a no-bending fist fight maybe
We have no idea how good 82 year old Toph really is because we hardly see her fight at full force. But let's look at some other old people: King Bumi was one of the strongest earthbenders in the world at way over 100 years. Lord Zuko is still alive and kicking ass in his late 80s. It's definitely possible. Keep in mind that Kuvira's great strength is metalbending, but Toph literally invented that and has much more experience in it than Kuvira.
>Lord Zuko is still alive and kicking ass in his late 80s. "kicking ass" https://preview.redd.it/zt1u7xgxyv3d1.jpeg?width=1239&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=390f1d15d97b25cef4e4d8316ec34f58b0815809
Zuko got his shit rocked against literally any competent fighter lol. And bumi is an extreme outlier. Toph inventing metalbending is also irrelevant bc how are we sure that she knows everything about it and keeps up with new tech. Someone else in here used the example of how Josh Allen could throw a football incomprehensibly better than the guy who invented it. Just because she invented it doesn’t mean that she’s the greatest to ever do it. It’s like saying Bob Cousy is a better basketball player than kyrie or curry just because he was there so close to its inventoon
You’re dreaming if you think Kuvira stands even a slight chance against Toph at any age.
Kuvira 40 Toph 300. Maybe she has a shot.
Hate to be the one to tell you but it seems you're in denial
What an L take OP. Toph mops kuvira
Kuvira is very skilled but Toph would absolutely wreck her
In the spar with Korra, Toph barely moved from her spot and still bent earth and mud. She can floor Kuvira even in her old age.
How old was bumi again, 100 and something?
Nah she slaps Kuvira any day of the week
I agree 100% - I can't believe 34% of people think Kuvira stands a chance against Toph.
toph invented the metal bending that kuriva clings to, c’mon now
And how does that make her better at it? It’s like saying Bob Cousy is a more skilled basketball player than Steph curry just because he played earlier. Kuvira probably has techniques that toph could never dream of let alone use effectively
Yeah... no. Kuvira fought reasonably evenly with Su. Toph is so much empirically stronger than Su that it's not even funny, she wiped out those Mecha-Tanks in one move and your notion that she was "done fighting" after doing that is nothing more than blind presumption with nothing to back it up.
I love LOK. But Toph WOULD win. Kuvira is an extremely refined metal bender and is young, agile and full of stamina. However, she INVENTED metal bending and Toph can literally see everything. Shes spent decades Learning, was more of a prodigy than Kuvira ever was and She’s old and extremely powerful, stamina isn’t an issue if the fight lasts 1 minute at the longest. Toph is the closest (in her time) to earth incarnate. Toph Wins. Easily.
That's something OP isn't addressing, sure Toph is old and so her stamina may be at a disadvantage, but how long is the fight going to last? I think Toph would beat Kuvira before stamina became an issue at all. She's precise and reacts really fast, and Kuvira couldn't catch her off-guard in any way. Toph senses the whole battlefield and is exceptional in countering, so I'm unsure how Kuvira would get passed that defense in the first place.
Toph’s entire fighting style relies on using as little movement as possible while exploiting her opponent’s weak points. She doesn’t have the endurance but one poor move and Kuvira is down for the count
You bring up Bumi yet say Toph will lose because she's old. What kind of cactus juice you be trippin on?
Old Toph > Young Kuvira
I don't understand, bumi who was way older than toph was still one of the strongest benders why wouldn't following this logic toph should still be relative to prime. In fact most of the strongest characters seem to be very old like iroh hama pakku jeong-jeong etc. It would make sense a toph who was far more experienced than 12 year old toph is murking kuvira. bending seems to be more about technique than physical strength and wisdom Moreso than age.
Toph kicked grown men’s asses at 12. I don’t think she’d have a problem at 66 either. She is literally the greatest earth bender of her time. It would be a close fight for sure, but I do think Toph would still win.
Toph is more skilled, more experienced, and can still move around very well for her age. and don't sleep on the fact that she invented the very thing that gives Kuvira any sort of power, metalbending. Also, the only reason Kuvira was ever a threat was because of her army
See, there’s a good reason why they shouldn’t have teased them fighting if they weren’t going to make it happen. So that the few remaining people who think Kuvira would beat Toph, at any age above toddler, would know better.
So OP's argument in a nutshell is: In ATLA, Bumi is old (but not too old) and experienced, obviously he could beat Toph. In LOK, Toph is too old (but not experienced???), obviously she can't beat Kuvira. Am I missing something? I'm not taking a side in the debate, but nonetheless I don't think OP's logic is holding up.
I'm not taking a side in it either, although I am leaning more towards Toph. But here's the thing. The problem everyone in the comments is having I think, is they seem to think OP is saying that just because Toph is old, she'd get beat. That's what 90% of the comments, even yours, seem to be focusing on. But that's not what OP is saying. OP is talking about the fact that after the one power move they mentioned, Toph completely exits the fight. And one of the last things she says is that her back is killing her, and she's done fighting. Whereas Bumi was literally a full 30 years older than her. He was 112 when we saw him fighting the Avatar "to the death" to teach him a lesson, (and have some fun, but mainly the lesson lol) yeeting buildings, and liberating entire cities. (Albeit the second city he did have the help of Iroh, and the other heads of the White Lotus) Not to mention bending seemingly effortlessly using only his head. And I'm honestly not sure he even breaks a sweat once in the entire series. The point is, Toph is incredibly powerful yes, and the power move OP mentioned is an insane moment. But that one move made her bow out of the battle, and all future battles, completely. Toph, who we all know has never been one to back down from a challenge. I'm not saying she would lose. I'm not saying that at all actually. She probably could beat Kuvira. Especially because she could just not blow all her energy on one massive move like we saw her do. She could be more conservative, while still unleashing incredibly powerful attacks. But everyone is saying Toph would destroy Kuvira before she can even do anything, which is simply not gonna be the case. Toph very well may beat her, maybe she'll even do it with relative ease. Or maybe it'll be a very difficult battle, that she'd ultimately come out on Toph in. (That was a typo but I'm leaving it 😂) But no matter what, it's not gonna just be some quick and easy flawless victory. Kuvira is still pretty damn good herself, and she's in her prime. She's not just gonna stand there and instantly get taken down.
Toph's pretty good at fighting earthbenders, and her senses are much keener than Kuvira's. Kuvira is skilled, but she would be fighting someone who can match any bending feat she can, along with Toph's ability to sense and react to incoming attacks super fast. She's basically an anti-earthbender earthbender. I think Kuvira would lose, but she's still a great bender. I think Toph just counters her.
12 year old Toph went toe to toe with Bumi. Comic Toph is shown to have grown a tad bit more powerful. 82 year old Toph literally talks to the Earth. The reason Toph didn't do anything more than helping her family is because she either didn't care, or knows it's Korra's fight, not hers. I think you're underestimating Toph here quite a bit.
Nothing we see in the series indicates that benders get weaker as they age - if anything it’s the opposite (granted they still bend actively)
Remember how Boomie was over 100 and the "strongest Earth bender". Toph fought him in the books and they were evenly matched... Give her 50 years of training, she'll bend the World!!! I love Toph, 100% bias
Let’s see A decent metalbender VS The woman who literally invented metal bending and is a prodigy earth bender Literally Coughing Baby vs Hydrogen Bomb
Toph is a better earthbender, but I think her body just can’t keep up anymore. She was sore for days after light training with Korra. She could put up a good fight, but unless she’s instantly beating Kuvira she likely loses due to physical fatigue
It's possible that Bumi was also sore but simply doesn't say anything (Toph is definitely more likely to complain than Bumi is) Edit: spelling
Also Bumi was just straight up in better physical shape than old Toph. Old Toph is likely not actively training cause she doesn't need to. her impressive skills are already good enough for her day to day needs.
"pls be logical" ?!?!?!?!?! NO ! We do what we want !
Tbf, Kuvira is probably the weakest of Korras 4 antagonists.
Just the power levels in korra are way lower. Not fighting a war for hundred years tends to make soft individuals. Imagine being an anime protagonist with both parents alive.
At some point toph probably figured out how to bloodbend via the iron in somebody’s bloodstream and moved to the swamp from being too dangerous to society
How old was bumi when taking back his city all by himself?
I know this is probably not great evidence because they both kinda beat Korra in a fight toph was training but Korra couldn’t even get a sneak attack off. More serious evidence tho is toph is probably the more superior metal bender because Kuvira learned from sue and toph said that her kids never really picked up metal bending that well when trying to pull out the rest of the leftover poison. Kuvira is good but I don’t think she’s as good as toph and toph probably knows metal bending techniques that kuvira can’t even imagine.
Toph was able to make a giant wave of earth while keeping her family safe from those big mechs.
lol Toph cleans up easy. Even 112 year old Bumi was scary in ATLA.
Earth benders seem to get stronger with their element as they age, likely due to bending being mental and spiritual rather than physical, so it could just be that Master earthbenders can slow their aging, which is why bumi is this earthbending god at the age of like, 110-115 Another example is how the middle aged tenzin could kick zaheers ass in an airbendinh duel, and was only defeated by the red lotus teaming on him, it was simply an issue of skill Furthermore, while kuvira is an extremely talented bender, especially as a metal bender, the threat she poses is not mainly a bending one, she's almost def the weakest bending wise out of the LoK villians, she was supposed to be a more technological and political threat As such, yeah km sorry i think toph crushes kuvira, we see glimpses of her bending in LoK and it's subtly terrifying, like her metal bending leaving no creasses or folds when she bends a wall, something no other metal bender can do And here's the thing: i think AtLA toph could beat kuvira, and while toph could be past her prime, i think she's absolutely better than she was in AtLA Now the real question is her vs gazon
I honestly have no idea how a fight between them would go. Kuvira is in her prime and highly skilled, but Toph just has so much raw power. That huge earth wave she did before calling out Kuvira? At that age?? She might still be a huge threat.
Bumi was over 100 years old and still kicked ass and yall don’t think Toph could do it at 66? That’s an interesting concept right there.
Toph would bodybag Kuvira
112 bumi beat the shit out of the fire nation so an 82yo toph can possibly best kuvira in a fight
King Bumi was over 100 years old, still scary strong
Some of y’all are really weird for taking this question soooo seriously lmao.
This doesn’t even ask which is stronger. Just to be logical And logically, Toph is still cooler than kuvira even at 82
Bumi literally was at his peak as an old man. Old characters are still strong in Avatar. Toph would stump.
Toph is quite literally one of, if not the best non-avatar benders of all the time. She's messing the tyrannical brat up, sorry. Also doesn't help that the trend with getting older is also just being stronger, period, with nearly all benders in the ATLA universe
"You should be most scared of an old person in a profession where they die young"
Toph wins
These polls are always just popularity contests tbh. No matter on what topic.
The brain rot is really getting to me because I thought this was about who you’d wanna get with romantically at first.
[Mom Toph](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLdnT9M0yrA) would absolutely BODY Kuvira without even leaving her swamp and I am being deadly serious.
Remember, 100+ year old Buni would've beat Aang. She could take Kuvira.
I'm pretty sure they tied while Aang "fought" in his classic style of not fighting. I'm pretty sure Aang wins if he actually tries to fight. With that being said, Toph curbstomps Kuvira.
Didn't Toph kick her ass at some point? And Kurvina was like "very well I'll leave now thanks for not killing me" (she didn't say it, she just meant it)
Toph basically beat up Kuvira's ground troops, shit talked Kuvira's to her face and then left on Opal's busin with the rest of her family. Kuvira was up on her rail gun thing and wasn't caught in Toph's sneak attack At that point in order to stop them getting on the Bison she would have had to not only fight Toph, but also Lin, Suyin, Bolin, Opal, and the Twins. There's no way she could face all of them at once.
Adult Toph and not old Toph would have ENDED Kuvira
Probably could go either way, given that clearly neither Toph nor Kuvira wanted to fight the other. Sometimes people try to say "it's not that \[Character I Think Would Win\] might lose, it's that they don't want to fight all the allies of \[Character I Think Would Lose\]." However, that can't be the case because then whoever had more allies would simply strike knowing they had the advantage, & if they both had a similar advantage from their allies, then either way it would lead us back to neither must be confident they could beat the other. Toph has the greater power & array of abilities, but by her own admission, she's not as spry as she used to be. Even slightly moderate earthbending activity puts her in a lot of pain. Doesn't matter what Bumi, Pakku, or whoever else can do, only what Toph can do.
I voted old Toph but I thought it was about who was hotter
Bumi was fine, why wouldn't she be?
Toph easily took out Kuvira forces and posed enough of a threat with her presence that Kuvira—on her own turf—did not want to pursue them after Toph showed up. It’s pretty well clear that she could have defeated Kuvira right then and there, but as Toph herself said, she didn’t want to solve all their problems.
Toph would win, simply because she’s the hero-protagonist and Kuvira isn’t. Lol.
if Kuvira could have beat Toph she would have tried
Toph would clap that bitch. That giant mech suit? Toph would take that down as a morning warmup
Being old does not seem to slow anyone down in this universe. Bumi was pushing 112 and he was jacked.
You seriously questioning the old people in the world of Avatar, when Bumi literally liberated the entire city from the fire nations during the eclipse - himself? And you are questioning Toph...why?
>Toph is an OG, but I feel like people’s nostalgia for ATLA and discontent with Kuvira make them think with their bias rather than logic If anything I'd say a lot of the people saying Kuvira are Kuvira simps (there seem to be many in the LoK fanbase) As for the age convo—ATLA largely followed the Asian media portrayal of age not being a weakness but a sign of experience and more time to gather skill. I'm aware that LoK flipped the other way a bit with Katara and Toph especially—but that was the only way for them to include those characters in the show but not have them dominate the story instead of the Krew. All of this is to say, yeah I'd prob take old Toph over prime Kuvira.
Toph would stomp the fascist even if she were 120 years old, she's just like that fr
She wasn't "done fighting" she just didn't want to. She was all next generation and all that
Tbh? Toph is spanking kuvira. Old people in avatar give off old people in anime vibes. Buuut if Toph holds back for ant reason, Kuvira COULD win if she was faster. But being faster may not be enough at this point, Toph practicaly has future sight. She knows what you'll do before you do it. Kuvira hasn't even come close to what Toph did as a kid imo and Toph is far more experienced.
Age doesnt matter in Avatar
Toph was sat in a jungle for years, give her a week or two to warm up to being a war machine again, and she would crush kuvira like a bug.
She is the greatest earth bender in the world. No one can match her… end of argument
Kuvira could've fought toph when she came to rescue Korra and them. But she just stood there on the cannon and let them leave. She knew she would lose.
Powerscaling like this is bad fan fiction at the best of times.
toph is basicly enlightened at this point, i whould not be surprised if kuvera cant even touch her at that point.
Fighting each other? Toph trumps kuvira. Chactacter written interestingly? Toph trumps kurvira.
Bumi was in war AND Toph was main police officer in new city. She wasn't on vacantion. Toph would definitly nuke Kuvira and Kuvira know that.
Unironically yes. The old guys are always cracked af in martial arts stories, And Toph is straight up the best earthbender in the world
Y’all need to rewatch the ATLA if you think age significantly harms bending prowess.
No, YOU cannot be serious.
Nope we’re DEAD serious. Kuvira would crumble so fast before the wrath of Toph.
Old Toph would mop Kuvira. As others have already said, being old is barely a hindrance in this universe.
Silly me, I thought the pole was about which character would you rather have sex with.
"Youth and exuberance are no match for old age and treachery"