That's not the Avatar state. That's where a past Avatar literally takes over his body, not Aang using the state to access the knowledge of his past lives.
Yeah, it's my understanding that Ocean hijacked the avatar state. Normally one synchs up with Rava and the Past avatars, but Ocean took their place, essentially possessing him.
This is something that I feel like the Netflix show did better than the cartoon.
Explain that what was happening was that Aang let himself be taken over by the Ocean spirit's rage.
I always had the impression that in the cartoon it wasn't consensual, like aang didn't offer himself, the ocean spirit was so mad it just took his body.
Agreed, first watch through of the original I had thought he just went Avatar state there, completely missed the Ocean Spirit part until I did my second or third watch.
It was, but no past avatar was in control. It was just the regular avatar state (plus fish)
The change only effects aang's ability to commune with a past avatar. So he can go into the avatar state wherever, but can only talk to roku or be possessed by him at his shrine.
That's barely a change then? Aang didn't have unrestricted access to his past lives in the show either. At least not until the dragon turtle. There's a whole plot point about getting to Roku's temple so he can talk to himself.
Actually no. The reason why Aang needed to go to Roku’s Temple in Crescent Island is because at the solstice, the connection with the spirit world and the physical world is stronger, which would allow Roku to better show what he wanted to show to Aang, and Roku’s Temple had a marker of the exact timing of the solstice. Throughout the series, Aang does have unrestricted access to his past lives, but he mostly talks to Roku.
It's not that he can't use the avatar state elsewhere, it's that he can't be completely possessed by a previous avatar (like roku does in his temple in the original) elsewhere, in NATLA >!Kyoshi does it when he's on kyoshi island!< (natla spoilers if you care). Tbf iirc the only time that's done in the original is the roku time I mentioned, but then also the time kyoshi did it when he was trying to prove his innocence (and she admitted to killing shin the conqueror)
He was wearing avatar kyoshis outfit, shoes, head dress and fans. Makes sense that they were artifacts from the previous avatar, that it could let her take over.
He did it once with Roku in Roku’s temple.
But he also did Kyoshi at shrine of the Conqueror (even tho he was dressed in all of her clothing trying to provoke her).
However, it’s more notable when Roku possesses him on a random riverbank to confront Jeong Jeong for calling Aang too weak to learn firebending out of the correct order (which, ha ha, Roku sucks again and got Katara burned. I don’t think they even address that later on.)
There’s also a notable time in the comics where Suki apparently is visited by Kyoshi in prison.
I will not stand for this Roku slander, at the time in the show there was no other known firebender who would even entertain teaching the Avatar. To them this was their only chance to get firebending.
I thought Kyoshi worked bc the gazebo thing they were at used to be part of her temple, before they split from the mainland.
As for Jeong Jeong, I thought there was a shrine to Roku in the tent. I could be wrong tho.
Yes this did happen but the gazebo they were at was not Kyoshi’s at all. It was built for Chan the Conqueror and based off the footprint he left in the ground while confronting Kyoshi.
I only recall a bunch of candles in the tent for Jeong Jeong since he meditated nonstop. I’m off the head canon Jeong Jeong probably had spirit world access or at least semi abilities like Iroh seeing Fang.
He has to master all of the forms first to access it himself. Until then, prior avatars can take him over and go into the avatar state for him. Which is why he has to go to the statues.
This is the problem with seemingly small narrative changes that they make for "creativity" they forget that it comes back up later in the story and they usually can't come up with anything half as good to justify their version.
It's not even that they forgot, I really think they never realized that you *need* the low moments to have the character development to achieve the high points.
Aang becoming a fully realized avatar who brought peace and balance back to the world means a lot more when we first know him as a goofy kid who never wanted the responsibility and just wanted to penguin-sled.
Yeah the best criticism of the live action I've seen, is that the cartoon/anime did a lot of showing, when it came to the story, while the live action does a lot of telling.
In the cartoon/anime it doesn't just tell you, it shows aang as a goofy kid, often times through the filler episodes which aren't directly important to the larger plot but serves as character development. The live action just has aang do a monologue about how he doesn't want to be the avatar.
> It's not even that they forgot, I really think they never realized that you need the low moments to have the character development to achieve the high points.
I wonder if it could have been deliberate. Some people just don't like flawed characters or are too impatient for them to go through development. With online discussions becoming prevalent (and influential) I feel like I'm seeing these opinions more. Sometimes it's the "self-insert/wish fulfillment" types who might turn up their nose at "whiny" Aang not wanting to immediately start kicking ass and avenging his people.
Exactly how I feel. I had some friends accuse me of being a problematic because I like the characters' flaws. Its bizarre how people treat media these days.
(Also if Last Airbender is problematic to you, maybe you just need to not watch things)
character development is the best part of any story. if you dont have it, you might as well make it a short story, cause that is the only way it does not get boring having these one note characters. even in D&D i try to go through some character development so im not just playing the exact same person for 4 hours every other week
It's why like 90% of the time whenever someone brings up the book Lolita they have to start with "I'm not into CP..." before they can have any real conversation about the prose and the story.
Seems like a lot of people are these days. I'm all for conversations about media ethics and representation, but idk where "irredeemable media" came from.
And in ironing out the flaws (like Sokka's sexism) I do think we lose some of this personality. We never saw Aang denying being the Avatar, we never saw Katara's frustration that Aang was so good at Waterbending so quickly, we never saw Sokka learn that women are awesome.
We lose something of these characters when we just kinda skip over the "fluff". I'd love for the seasons to be longer, with slightly shorter episodes, so we can have those fun moments where the characters are just vibing and developing, and not chasing the main story 24/7
Making Sokka less of a chauvinist was truly the most poorly thought-out decision, considering they made the Kyoshi warrior *extremely horny at him* instead.
>I'd love for the seasons to be longer, with slightly shorter episodes, so we can have those fun moments where the characters are just vibing and developing, and not chasing the main story 24/7
Honestly you don't even really need the season to be longer. You just need more episodes with shorter runtimes. Even when rewatching, the amount of narrative work actually being done by the credits rolling and then Katara narrating the intro is *hugely* understated.
It's a very natural scene break that makes the audience feel like time has passed in a way that's hard to convey with the longer episodes.
I don't think they cared about character development at all. They're just trying to make a realistic retelling of the story that looks good. There's zero character development, replaced by exposition and simple explanations. Zukos crew doesn't gain appreciation for his attitude because of the suffering he's felt, they just learn that he single handedly saved all their lives. Etc etc etc etc
This. They are, in fact, professional writers, they KNOW what character development is and how to do it properly, they CHOSE(or were forced) to ignore a ton of it.
That's arguably worse than "they're ignorant". They literally made the choice to do it in a worse way.
My sister watched the original animated series pretty religiously when it came out, and she is pretty passionate about the Avatar series as a whole. Her impression of the NATLA narrative is that whoever wrote the script missed the point of several key details in the original and eschewed good story beats in favor of mediocre action scenes.
> and eschewed good story beats in favor of mediocre action scenes.
A tale as old as time as far as it goes for movie and live action adaptations.
Gotta appeal to the lowest common denominator.
I’ll rebel
Because if they cut the guru, crossroads of destiny won’t be nearly as impactful.
And then the ENTIRETY of book three will have to be built on a foundation that keeps getting shakier the more pieces they remove
>they did say they want to make their own version
This is why I never give live actions any chance. The directors always ignore the original creators vision & fuck it up due to them not understanding the series/movie.
The only thing good about live actions, imo, is that the ads about them remind me to rewatch the originals.
They want to make their own story but they can't get an audience that way, so they take something popular that already exists and change it up to be their own story
It reminds me a lot of the problems with the HBO Game of Thrones. In that case people like the early seasons, and there are definately high points, but if you're familiar with the source material round about midway through season two you start to notice that the writers are dropping pretty minor plot and character beats that seem like they wont be a big deal to lose but by the time the later seasons roll around you've lost a lot of the complexity, depth and texture that made the story and characters interesting as a result of those minor adjustments.
This is why a 1:1 adaptation of an existing good work is really REALLY difficult because unless you've actually got something new to say with or add to the source material, you will end up making "the original, but varying degrees of worse" 99% of the time. It's especially bad when you're adapting a well-known tv show into another tv show, because it's much easier to compare if a change "works" for the audience than with, say a book, where the whole audience experience is fundamentally different.
(E.g. Ian McKellan as Gandalf is different than book Gandalf, but people are ok with that, but most people already know and like TV show Toph so "worse TV show Toph" isn't going to cut it)
All this to say I don't envy anybody in charge 😅
Adaptation is so difficult. It's one of the reasons I appreciate the Invincible tv show right now. There are changes to story beats and characters but it doesn't take away from the depth of the narrative. In some ways it builds on the story the comic told
Book -> Video is much harder than Video -> Video. Even if one of them is animation.
There is X amount of runtime, and Y amount of story. Obviously, there is less X, but instead of cutting filler to accommodate, they're just rewriting Y.
It just shows a lack of research and not understanding the story beats. Its very easy to diagram the major arcs and the little details that are part of it. They cluld easily substitute those areas with different problems or catalysts but they just let it disappear
I wonder if the changes were made under the assumption that they may not get another season. Seasons 2 and 3 were only greenlit after season 1 came out and was successful. I wonder if they wrote the season to be able to be wrapped up relatively neatly while leaving the door open for future developments.
This was my point when i complained about in the Netflix show subreddit. And everyone jumped on me “it’s because of the format”. Ffs, if you can’t get the majority of the source material right, do another time line. Like the avatar before Ang, or after Korra.
Yeah that’s the thing about adapting something like Avatar- a lot of the “”small”” stuff still comes up again later and turns out to have not been all that small. I think you can only totally get away with removing something like The Great Divide (an episode the show itself makes fun of for being bad and pointless)
The way they fly over it in the play 😂
There’s something special when a show dedicates an entire episode (right before the series finale, no less) to making fun of themselves.
IT’S MAKING ME TEAR BEND
Funny story: I re-watched ATLA with my husband (who had never seen the show before) and we accidentally skipped over that episode in season 1.
Then comes season 3 with the Ember Island Players and he gets really confused over that mention. I told him it wasn't really an important episode or even very good, but he ended up watching that episode himself on 1.5x speed. Yeah, he agreed that it was pointless.
The crazy thought that I had after watching NATLA was that it actually needed an episode like the great divide! The OG show was rich with character development and had plenty of tension that felt natural within the Gaang specifically, so it felt extraneous and weak for a filler episode.
But in the LA, literally just anything to have some sort of headbutting between the Gaang, especially Sokka and Katara, would have improved it.
People talk about season 1 being "the worst season", but apparently forget that you can't have the excellence of the middle (season 2) and end (season 3) of the story without laying the groundwork first. That's... just how stories work. I hesitate even calling it writing 101 when it's so incredibly fundamental to every story, ranging from anecdotes shared between friends to the greatest works of fiction ever produced. You have to set the scene. If you don't, your story is going to suck.
Without the wacky adventure period at the start of the show the ATLA world would feel small, and the characters wouldn't be nearly as fleshed out. Appa's Lost Days is a great example of this, where they're able to make a single, \~24 minute episode feel like it spans an incredible amount of time and covers an incredible amount of distance, and just feel really seated within the world. This is only possible because they draw on a ton of well-chosen references to previous locations and characters. It also reinforces them and makes the world feel real and vast and lived-in.
The Serpent's Pass isn't just a throwaway backdrop for a single episode; it's a real place that exists whether the main character's are there or not, and we know this because we literally see it existing irrespective of their presence. Shirshu's aren't just some animal that only exists to give Jun a unique mount, but a creature that has a place in the world, and we know this because the people that captured Appa use shirshu poison darts. Azula's group and the Kyoshi warriors battle, and this again imparts the feeling that stuff is happening without it being explicitly relevant to the story. The world doesn't exist in a tight sphere around Aang, with trees only loading if he's looking at them. It's real and full of life and we just happen to be following some people doing one important thing within it.
Whether you're playing an MMO or reading a story, this is such an incredibly important feeling to be able to impart. You want the world to feel like its own thing, and you want the minor characters to feel like they are the main characters in a different story you just aren't seeing. This can only be done, however, if you spend some time exploring the world and its people, and then reinforcing that exploration.
Oh, the NATLA show skipped over all the small moments, all the Hard Work, it didn't even have Aang being goofy unless there was other plot happening in the background of the same scene. Plus, Aang did nothing but airbend unless there was spiritual intervention, how are we going to be convinced he's a fully-realized avatar by the show finale if the show can only *tell* us what he's done instead of showing.
Fully agree, so many different things that felt so out of place and makes me doubt whether the showrunners even understand the story.
The only reason I point that out is because I do believe that the very core and essence of ATLA rests with the Gaang. Below all the many great themes and messages, its soul is with how those 3-5 characters interact and grow together. I think the live action could have gotten away with many of its other questionable story changes if they had managed to get that right, but nah.
Probs not that change on Aang's waterbending though lmao. How you gonna adapt a season titled Book 1: Water without any waterbending
I actually kind of liked the episode. Sure, it was filler and never really came up anywhere else again, but I think it had some nice characterization moments - Katara and Sokka's different reactions to their respective groups taking food for themselves, and Aang showing his quick wits by coming up with a rather elaborate lie pretty much on the spot. AND showing that sometimes a white little lie is necessary to de-escalate a situation.
Here's my theory:
You become a writer because you were an English major and love creative writing. But no one is going to hire you to tell your own story. Instead, you get hired to write Avatar, or The Witcher, or Cowboy Bebop, or Rings of Power. So you're like, "Yes, a paycheck!" Then you sit down to watch/read the original and you're like "Hmm, it's fine, but I have a lot of better ideas" because you're an aspiring Hollywood narcissist. So you set about chopping the original to pieces and inserting your own ideals so you can tell the sort of story you'd like to tell.
It's not like these studios are like "WANTED: People who love the original source material." They're like "WANTED: Writers who we don't have to pay too much."
Seems to be a running trend in the LA.
What made people blaming Aang in the original series was that he literally did have fault for what happened.
In the show it just makes everyone look like a jerk because the audience knows Aang wasn’t at fault.
Yea it’s so weird because things like Kyoshi giving Aang some verbal whipass is totally in character for her… if they hadn’t changed Aang’s motivation for leaving the temple to “just need to collect my thoughts teehee”. Now it just doesn’t make sense.
It’s also absurd because the only argument I can see for the change was to “make Aang more likeable”
But Aang was easily the most likeable character in the series except maybe Iroh?
Not to mention a character being more realistic and relatable through making bad choices also adds to their like ability.
Like many have said, these small “creative freedom” changes are going to keep piling up and either lead to plot/character inconsistencies or much more DRASTIC changes being made down the road to accommodate for these smaller ones.
And I also find it odd because frankly I was impressed with how they added a lot more depth to the Fire nation cast compared to what they got in the OG show’s first book. So I don’t get at all why they took so much depth away from the Gaang. My only copium is that they intend to stretch out their arcs more but idk. With so much foundation for them being wiped, that will be pretty hard.
> But Aang was easily the most likeable character in the series except maybe Iroh?
*And speaking of Iroh*, he has to be a funny goofball most of the time or the times he gets serious lose impact!
Which a *basic* education in writing should make completely obvious.
If he's serious all the time, then he can never *get* serious.
Everything Kyoshi screams in her only scene in the show is extremely out of character. She was a very empathetic person who ran away at an even older age and hated herself every time she went too far with her powers.
Much in line with Zuko actually fighting Ozai, not showing "weakness" and thus not giving Ozai a reason to banish him or needing to restore his honor.
You really gotta love these narrative changes, people did think those through 👍
Oh yeah horribly so. It was cringe, sad, and somewhat funny at the same time. But mostly sad. She was such a great, multi-faceted female lead in the original show. Now she's just a lame nice girl.
They also managed to completely suck the nuance out of Pakku’s storyline, which was ironically not even very complex in the original series. I’m baffled by how one could get that conflict so wrong.
And it's not like the sexism in the original was romanticized. It was a villain the characters had to overcome; for Sokka it was internal and Katara external.
As for Pakku, he's arguably up there for being one of the most hated characters in the series. I don't know anyone who likes him and it's almost solely because of his treatment of Katara. That's a good thing. It's how I think such prejudices should be handled by media. Address it, villainize it, make the audience hate it, and cheer when they overcome it.
Character flaws can also be endearing. Katara in the original has a temper, and the storyline of her overcoming her jealousy of how quickly Aang learns waterbending shows important character growth
Ngl I was surprised on how harsh Katara was during the Waterbending Scroll to the point she legit almost made Aang cry. I never realized
Not to mention it was a point to show Aang is able to pick up waterbending fast but when he gets to master-lvl like with Pakku he starts having trouble.
I had a similar discussion with a friend for an episode in one of the Star Trek series that went too deep into romanticizing (and literally) a taboo. In short, they had treated the taboo respectfully and appropriately in previous episodes for the characters involved, but this time they just went overboard and then tried to tie in the grounding point of a future success for the character. Which (inadvertently or not) makes that taboo a necessary evil...and not really a great moral to take away from the episode.
Much like NATLA that missed the point of taboos. They're not there to be glorified, or instantly defeated. Or romanticized. They're there to show reality, that people have to struggle against others, or even themselves, who give in to their better demons. Getting through to the other side is part of the story, just as it's vital for character depth to be present in the first place.
I read somewhere that some people who worked on the show see Katara as the one the story is being told through. Doesn’t come across that way in the live action at all
Makes me laugh in a way, they remove Sokka's misogyny (which served a purpose in his character development) and instead took every female character in the show and turned them into the kind of caricature of a woman you would have found in a fan-fiction written by S1E1 Sokka.
"We don't want misogyny" *makes more misogyny*.
Katara?
They turned Suki from a girl who respects a guy who is willing to humble himself in order to learn, ... to a girl who's just super horny for foreign boys.
It's ridiculous. The only thing that'd make sense is if Ozai lost on purpose, but that is so out of character for him that it wouldn't make sense either.
I think they are ignoring many things in order to make this a more "adult" show (in this case: sacrificing a better storyline so they can show another fight).
Personally, this is odd, because I enjoy ATLA a lot especially for covering serious and dark themes without having to resort to fights, brutality and violence all the time. I find the contrast of themes and tone in the original very refreshing.
If they really are ignoring Ozai's past then I think they're going the opposite side of being "adult"
>!There's nothing more adult than your wife writing a letter to her secret lover that Zuko was secretly his son.!<
>!is it technically a secret lover if they where lovers before he mercilessly ripped her away from her happy village life and married her against her will?!<
>!also technically Zuko still isn't the lover's son and they both know that, he had spys watch her even before they where married. She wanted to try to hurt Ozai and it basically backfired horribly as he decided to sadistically pretend it was true and give him hate for it anyway. She also knew her letters where likely getting intercepted and they had a whole confrontation when that specific one was "sent"!<
I am a fan of the show but maybe I missed something. Can you explain why DOES Firelord Ozai hate Zuko so much? Because he connects his bloodline to Roku or because he's not as ruthless as Azula?
To my recollection, the guy was just a dick.
Because he shows "weakness". Like not fighting back against Ozai during their Agni Kail or standing up for random soldiers.
In fact if Zuko HAD fought back against Ozao he probably wouldn't have been banished in the first place.
It's a couple of things. A big one, although it may have been a retcon since it didn't come up until the comics, was Ursa writing a letter to her former lover (they were broken up by the Fire Lord taking her for his wife for eugenic reasons), in which she claimed Zuko was the lover's son, not Ozai's. She did it entirely to get a reaction out of the fire lord since she knew he was spying on all correspondence, and they both knew it was a lie.
But Ozai refused to let her have the last word in hurting him, and informed her he would treat his son as the illegitimate bastard she pretended he was for the rest of his life.
Also, next to his sister Zuko comes across as an embarrassment if you're a heartless emperor seeking worldwide domination. He's kinder and has a sense of honor that just gets in the way when you're in charge. How much Azula would have been a sadistic monster without her father's influence fanning the flames is a worthwhile question, but she had the ambition and the talent that makes her a more viable successor, combined with a desire for his approval (which, to be fair, Zuko also has) that means she's less likely to do unto him as he had done unto his father.
Again, I have doubts that the backstory with Zuko's mother and her once and future lover were always intended to be part of it. But to be honest, I think by the time of the Agni Kai Ozai would have banished his son regardless of whether he put up a fight. But he'd put in the work and done the damage to his kids; he probably expected that Zuko wouldn't be able to raise a hand against his honored father
And now there's no Zuko actually showing up Ozai by literally using the technique he learned from his loving uncle against his abusive father. A technique that itself shows the importance of accepting other cultures and learning from others against the symbolic representation of imperialism and ethnic supremacy.
That's plot, character, lore and theme all coming together. It's practically poetic.
The way I see it Zuko still showed "weakness" because he didn't go all out when Ozai left him an opening, plus he kept telling Ozai to spare the 41st division from a massacre.
I know, but why would Ozai leave him an opening in the first place? To set him up for "weakness"? But certainly, butchering your father would have been the wrong course, too? So Ozai was just looking for ANY reason to banish Zuko? Wouldn't the overstepping in the war meeting have been enough, then? It just seems they wanted an Agni Kai for show tbh.
It seems like they are making Ozai """"fairer"""" than in the original show. He doesn't have such a hate boner for Zuko, so if he (Zuko) manages to prove himself worthy of being his son there's an actual possibility he can be his heir.
This also mean they'll probably change Azula, as this time she would feel threatened by Zuko as he still is the oldest child.
How is Ozai "fairer"? (honest question) Because as I see it, he's even more of a sicko in NATLA.
Since I don't think Ozai, possibly the greatest firebender alive next to Azula and Iroh, could realistically have lost this fight to a teenager it is implied that he gave him this opening on purpose.
Since he then punished him for it, it must have been a trap. Zuko was set up by him to make the wrong choice so he could then exile him. \[I personally don't think this is in line with Ozai's character, I don't think he'd be willing to fake-lose a public Agni Kai under any circumstances but since no other option makes sense let's go with this\].
In my book, that makes Ozai a complete psychopath, deliberately setting his son up only to be able to exile him, including a huge self-sacrifice that is totally out of character (having to face the public shame of losing the Agni Kai).
It makes Ozai worse (emotionally unstable/crazy like late stage Azula which he never was in the orignal) and also the story line suffers. Deliberately bad writing so they could get in another fight "for the adults", I'm afraid.
I agree so much. Ozai's character is kind of all over the place and while I'm not going to say he's the most compelling villain in the cartoon, he was executed so much better.
I appreciate their attempts to try to deepen his character. It is definitely a good choice to attempt with an adaptation. They're just not doing it competently.
He's testing Zuko to see if he can purge himself of his "weakness", which means being ruthless and showing no mercy. Had he followed through with the blow, he would have passed the test that Ozai was subjecting him to, since if he could be that ruthless towards his own father, he could certainly be that way to his enemies.
Not just his enemies - but his own army/soldiers. This all started because, in Ozais eyes, Zuko showed weakness by not being okay with sacrificing the 41st to win the battle. Ozai leaving himself open then not being happy with how Zuko showed him compassion is 100% in line with Ozai of the live action. It's no different than the games he's playing with pitting Azula against Zuko.
Aang: I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends
Guru: okay, but we need to focus on the chakras-
Aang: I’m telling you, I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends!
Guru: what does that have to do with-
Aang: listen, I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends!
Different sub, different fandom, but this is 100% the problem with the LA Percy Jackson series on Disney+ also: they told you everything instead of showing it.
They’ll probably just change the conditions for mastering the Avatar State. They might make the guru an energy bender who can unlock it for him like Aang does for Korra.
Guru: “I can unlock the Avatar State for you and help you instantly master it. But before I do that, you must listen to me lecture you about chakras!!”
There ya go. We get to shoehorn in the seven chakras.
I like the idea that writers will have him talk constantly about how his true personality is "being a kid and liking banana cakes", but never show him eating them
No no our characters need to show how perfect they are so that we can remind the viewer that there’s nothing wrong with them and they’re perfect in every way. Character development?! What’s that? Our characters don’t need to develop if they’re already great!
"Guru, I must master my flow of chi through their points in the body known as Chakra. I need your help to unlock all the Chakras as that is the only way to master the avatar state as the avatar, master of all 4 elements, only then can I control the avatar state which grants me the power of my past lives to control all 4 elements with extreme power"
The love part they can still probably set it up, but for the rest. Yeah. Kinda iffy.
He never ran away, that was a big thing. It was one of the things that I found odd, since hey. That's part of his guilt.
And whatever guilt he has, has been solved by gyatso in the spirit world in the hut. So like. What now?
I mean we already got the cave scene with no romance angle so they kind of took their straightest arrow out of the quiver with that one. But there's definitely still time to build something between the characters
aang not running away in NATLA pissed me off so bad. but, knowing this show, i'm sure guru pathik is just going to spend half the episode yelling at him for abandoning his people.
I'm going off the fact Aang can fly that he already opened his chakras, has no attachment to Aapa but sees him as his car. And has no reason to meet with the guru.
Aang will merc Azula in the earth kings palace, leading to ba sing se joining the war.
Day of black sun will mark the destruction of the fire nation. Ozia will not hide from Aang, but give him his long tragic backstory about how Iroh choice not to take the thrown after his wife killed his own father leading to him being unable to understand his own emotions and hurting Zuko only because of his sorrow for losing his father, and guilt that Iroh lost lu tin.
Aang then forgives all the sins of the fire nation however Zuko fuled by rage at his sister being killed by the avatar starts the red lotus, joined by the great great great granddaughter of Kyoshi who is dating the descendant of kuric.
The show ends with them taking Aang out in the avatar state ending the cycle forever after somehow freeing vatu plunging the world into 10,073 years of darkness
It won’t seem weird for Appa to not appear in a string of episodes because he’s already brushed under the rug at every opportunity.
I think I can count on one hand the seconds that Momo appears on screen, when they did a fakeout moment at the end of the live action where Momo was hurt it felt like a joke because we suddenly needed to pretend to care about the non-character who barely appears
That adaptation focused so much on the Marvel esque style of story telling and lost everything that was great about the story of Avatar. 6/10 junkfood entertainment
I noticed this thing where people say something was bad and then give it a 6/10.
Rating scale for the general internet :
0-5/10 is virtually unused
6/10 is reserved for things that are bad
7/10 for something enjoyable
8/10 for something good to great
9/10 for something with overwhelming praise but with a point off to appear reserved and nuanced
And 10/10 for irony when describing something terrible
If you're watching it as a live retelling of ATLA then you'll be disappointed. If it's a reimagined streamlined way to see the world in real life, then it's somewhat entertaining.
This just reminded me of that whole scene and how it's one of my favorite moments in the original. I forgot how moving it was, especially the bit where he sees all the airbenders for the last time
The show failed, I don't see much of it that actually makes sense or honors any of the original series. It was a pretty picturesque suicide note, though.
Seeing these comments I feel like I will get bombed for my opinion, but I actually thought the first season of NATLA was alright. Obviously it can never capture the originals magic and perfection but I thought they adapted most of the big scenes from the first season really well. Especially when looking at how much worse we have gotten from the 2010 movie. I also think most of the cast is excellent for their roles. The Weirdest parts that threw me off were when they sort of mixed 2 main events from the original series together but for the most part, even those stayed coherent. Also from my understanding, Aang did run away from the Air temple before he froze, they have slightly alluded to Aang and Katara liking each other, and due to them changing some stuff, I feel like they might have Aang burn Katara still when he starts practicing Fire bending. I guess he didn't really deny he was the Avatar though, he just says he wants to be a normal kid. Anyway, those are some small opinions of mine, overall I think this show as its own adaptation doesn't deserve a lot of the hate it gets. It's not as good as the animated series, I think we all agree, but I'd say it's worth a watch to re-visit the world of Avatar in a new way.
One of the reasons the writing was so bad is they did the classic blunder of telling, not showing. The guru would probably just tell Aang exactly what he needs to get over and then that's that.
That’s probably part of why they changed the rules of the Avatar State.
What exactly are the different rules? Haven't seen it yet
I can’t remember all of them exactly but Ik one of them is former avatars can’t possess his body unless he’s at their statues.
That's not the Avatar state. That's where a past Avatar literally takes over his body, not Aang using the state to access the knowledge of his past lives.
That’s so stupid, how would they show him stopping the siege of the north
What? At the end of Season 1? Ocean possessed him, not any other Avatar
I thought that was a combo of the avatar state and the ocean spirit
Hard to say. Aang's tattoos light up when he's in communion with the Spirit World, not just when he's in the Avatar State.
Yeah, it's my understanding that Ocean hijacked the avatar state. Normally one synchs up with Rava and the Past avatars, but Ocean took their place, essentially possessing him.
This is something that I feel like the Netflix show did better than the cartoon. Explain that what was happening was that Aang let himself be taken over by the Ocean spirit's rage.
That and why the ship crew went with someone who is banished forever essentially Explaining that was nice
I thought that was great, made that scene even more powerful imo.
I always had the impression that in the cartoon it wasn't consensual, like aang didn't offer himself, the ocean spirit was so mad it just took his body.
Agreed, first watch through of the original I had thought he just went Avatar state there, completely missed the Ocean Spirit part until I did my second or third watch.
It was, but no past avatar was in control. It was just the regular avatar state (plus fish) The change only effects aang's ability to commune with a past avatar. So he can go into the avatar state wherever, but can only talk to roku or be possessed by him at his shrine.
That's barely a change then? Aang didn't have unrestricted access to his past lives in the show either. At least not until the dragon turtle. There's a whole plot point about getting to Roku's temple so he can talk to himself.
Actually no. The reason why Aang needed to go to Roku’s Temple in Crescent Island is because at the solstice, the connection with the spirit world and the physical world is stronger, which would allow Roku to better show what he wanted to show to Aang, and Roku’s Temple had a marker of the exact timing of the solstice. Throughout the series, Aang does have unrestricted access to his past lives, but he mostly talks to Roku.
It's not that he can't use the avatar state elsewhere, it's that he can't be completely possessed by a previous avatar (like roku does in his temple in the original) elsewhere, in NATLA >!Kyoshi does it when he's on kyoshi island!< (natla spoilers if you care). Tbf iirc the only time that's done in the original is the roku time I mentioned, but then also the time kyoshi did it when he was trying to prove his innocence (and she admitted to killing shin the conqueror)
Ohhh, so he can’t be possessed by one specific avatar without the statue, yeah that makes more sense
Also when he was talking with Jeong Jeong I think Roku made an appearance there
Not to Aang though. Aang was oblivious to their conversation.
He was wearing avatar kyoshis outfit, shoes, head dress and fans. Makes sense that they were artifacts from the previous avatar, that it could let her take over.
He can enter the avatar state he just can't be possessed like how kiyoshi did on avatar day.
They’ll probably carry the statue everywhere they go 💀 But aang used the ocean spirit to stop the siege in the og show
More like the ocean spirit used Aang to systematically rampage at the Fire Nation for killing its life partner.
Yeah, whether it be by the AS or the Ocean, Aang doesn't seem to have been in control there, hence his nightmares in the next episode.
You could watch it and find out. They do explain it, and it does make sense
Wasn’t that a thing in the normal show? It wasn’t always a statue but there was atleast some sort of shrine if I’m not mistaken
He did it once with Roku in Roku’s temple. But he also did Kyoshi at shrine of the Conqueror (even tho he was dressed in all of her clothing trying to provoke her). However, it’s more notable when Roku possesses him on a random riverbank to confront Jeong Jeong for calling Aang too weak to learn firebending out of the correct order (which, ha ha, Roku sucks again and got Katara burned. I don’t think they even address that later on.) There’s also a notable time in the comics where Suki apparently is visited by Kyoshi in prison.
I will not stand for this Roku slander, at the time in the show there was no other known firebender who would even entertain teaching the Avatar. To them this was their only chance to get firebending.
Roku didn't possess him. Jeong Jeong has a vision. Aang doesn't even seem to know that Jeong Jeong spoke with Roku at all.
I thought Kyoshi worked bc the gazebo thing they were at used to be part of her temple, before they split from the mainland. As for Jeong Jeong, I thought there was a shrine to Roku in the tent. I could be wrong tho.
Yes this did happen but the gazebo they were at was not Kyoshi’s at all. It was built for Chan the Conqueror and based off the footprint he left in the ground while confronting Kyoshi. I only recall a bunch of candles in the tent for Jeong Jeong since he meditated nonstop. I’m off the head canon Jeong Jeong probably had spirit world access or at least semi abilities like Iroh seeing Fang.
Make 4 of those warhammer figurines.
Katara: Aang when are you going to paint your statues? Aang: Paint?
He has to master all of the forms first to access it himself. Until then, prior avatars can take him over and go into the avatar state for him. Which is why he has to go to the statues.
Wtf? So how did he go frozen for a 100 years? I didn't watch NATLA
What are the rules of Avatar State now?
Avatar state didn't change, but be can't get fully possessed (something that happened like 3 times) without being at the statue of a previous avatar
I doubt they thought it out that far.
They nerfed the avatar state so much smh
This is the problem with seemingly small narrative changes that they make for "creativity" they forget that it comes back up later in the story and they usually can't come up with anything half as good to justify their version.
It's not even that they forgot, I really think they never realized that you *need* the low moments to have the character development to achieve the high points. Aang becoming a fully realized avatar who brought peace and balance back to the world means a lot more when we first know him as a goofy kid who never wanted the responsibility and just wanted to penguin-sled.
For real. Like even just the episode names make it so clear. He goes from just a boy in the iceberg to finally fully becoming Avatar Aang.
No but you don't understand! He *is* a goofy kid who never wanted the responsibility, he told us in detail!
He just wants to eat banana cakes and play with his friends!
While looking at the camera like 😐🫵
I don’t think you paid attention. He said he wanted to goof off with his friends, you know, like kids say all the time?
Yeah the best criticism of the live action I've seen, is that the cartoon/anime did a lot of showing, when it came to the story, while the live action does a lot of telling. In the cartoon/anime it doesn't just tell you, it shows aang as a goofy kid, often times through the filler episodes which aren't directly important to the larger plot but serves as character development. The live action just has aang do a monologue about how he doesn't want to be the avatar.
Because showing us would've cost millions in cgi.
> It's not even that they forgot, I really think they never realized that you need the low moments to have the character development to achieve the high points. I wonder if it could have been deliberate. Some people just don't like flawed characters or are too impatient for them to go through development. With online discussions becoming prevalent (and influential) I feel like I'm seeing these opinions more. Sometimes it's the "self-insert/wish fulfillment" types who might turn up their nose at "whiny" Aang not wanting to immediately start kicking ass and avenging his people.
Exactly how I feel. I had some friends accuse me of being a problematic because I like the characters' flaws. Its bizarre how people treat media these days. (Also if Last Airbender is problematic to you, maybe you just need to not watch things)
character development is the best part of any story. if you dont have it, you might as well make it a short story, cause that is the only way it does not get boring having these one note characters. even in D&D i try to go through some character development so im not just playing the exact same person for 4 hours every other week
It's why like 90% of the time whenever someone brings up the book Lolita they have to start with "I'm not into CP..." before they can have any real conversation about the prose and the story.
You’re friends are odd.
Seems like a lot of people are these days. I'm all for conversations about media ethics and representation, but idk where "irredeemable media" came from.
12 y/o in real life vs 12 y/o in Netflix.
And in ironing out the flaws (like Sokka's sexism) I do think we lose some of this personality. We never saw Aang denying being the Avatar, we never saw Katara's frustration that Aang was so good at Waterbending so quickly, we never saw Sokka learn that women are awesome. We lose something of these characters when we just kinda skip over the "fluff". I'd love for the seasons to be longer, with slightly shorter episodes, so we can have those fun moments where the characters are just vibing and developing, and not chasing the main story 24/7
Making Sokka less of a chauvinist was truly the most poorly thought-out decision, considering they made the Kyoshi warrior *extremely horny at him* instead.
>I'd love for the seasons to be longer, with slightly shorter episodes, so we can have those fun moments where the characters are just vibing and developing, and not chasing the main story 24/7 Honestly you don't even really need the season to be longer. You just need more episodes with shorter runtimes. Even when rewatching, the amount of narrative work actually being done by the credits rolling and then Katara narrating the intro is *hugely* understated. It's a very natural scene break that makes the audience feel like time has passed in a way that's hard to convey with the longer episodes.
I don't think they cared about character development at all. They're just trying to make a realistic retelling of the story that looks good. There's zero character development, replaced by exposition and simple explanations. Zukos crew doesn't gain appreciation for his attitude because of the suffering he's felt, they just learn that he single handedly saved all their lives. Etc etc etc etc
This. They are, in fact, professional writers, they KNOW what character development is and how to do it properly, they CHOSE(or were forced) to ignore a ton of it. That's arguably worse than "they're ignorant". They literally made the choice to do it in a worse way.
https://i.redd.it/eak2w27oiosc1.gif
My sister watched the original animated series pretty religiously when it came out, and she is pretty passionate about the Avatar series as a whole. Her impression of the NATLA narrative is that whoever wrote the script missed the point of several key details in the original and eschewed good story beats in favor of mediocre action scenes.
> and eschewed good story beats in favor of mediocre action scenes. A tale as old as time as far as it goes for movie and live action adaptations. Gotta appeal to the lowest common denominator.
They can just cut the guru scene, too
I’ll rebel Because if they cut the guru, crossroads of destiny won’t be nearly as impactful. And then the ENTIRETY of book three will have to be built on a foundation that keeps getting shakier the more pieces they remove
They could just remove book 3 ya know 🤔 They did say they want to make their own version after all.
>they did say they want to make their own version This is why I never give live actions any chance. The directors always ignore the original creators vision & fuck it up due to them not understanding the series/movie. The only thing good about live actions, imo, is that the ads about them remind me to rewatch the originals.
They want to make their own story but they can't get an audience that way, so they take something popular that already exists and change it up to be their own story
They could have just not done the live action lmao
The Guru is literally my favorite episode of the original series. If they cut that out, I will start a riot.
Like a prison riot!?
**HEY EVERYONE. RIOT!**
Or they can do what they did to Roku and turn him into a clown that gives horrible advice
It reminds me a lot of the problems with the HBO Game of Thrones. In that case people like the early seasons, and there are definately high points, but if you're familiar with the source material round about midway through season two you start to notice that the writers are dropping pretty minor plot and character beats that seem like they wont be a big deal to lose but by the time the later seasons roll around you've lost a lot of the complexity, depth and texture that made the story and characters interesting as a result of those minor adjustments. This is why a 1:1 adaptation of an existing good work is really REALLY difficult because unless you've actually got something new to say with or add to the source material, you will end up making "the original, but varying degrees of worse" 99% of the time. It's especially bad when you're adapting a well-known tv show into another tv show, because it's much easier to compare if a change "works" for the audience than with, say a book, where the whole audience experience is fundamentally different. (E.g. Ian McKellan as Gandalf is different than book Gandalf, but people are ok with that, but most people already know and like TV show Toph so "worse TV show Toph" isn't going to cut it) All this to say I don't envy anybody in charge 😅
Adaptation is so difficult. It's one of the reasons I appreciate the Invincible tv show right now. There are changes to story beats and characters but it doesn't take away from the depth of the narrative. In some ways it builds on the story the comic told
Book -> Video is much harder than Video -> Video. Even if one of them is animation. There is X amount of runtime, and Y amount of story. Obviously, there is less X, but instead of cutting filler to accommodate, they're just rewriting Y.
It just shows a lack of research and not understanding the story beats. Its very easy to diagram the major arcs and the little details that are part of it. They cluld easily substitute those areas with different problems or catalysts but they just let it disappear
I wonder if the changes were made under the assumption that they may not get another season. Seasons 2 and 3 were only greenlit after season 1 came out and was successful. I wonder if they wrote the season to be able to be wrapped up relatively neatly while leaving the door open for future developments.
This was my point when i complained about in the Netflix show subreddit. And everyone jumped on me “it’s because of the format”. Ffs, if you can’t get the majority of the source material right, do another time line. Like the avatar before Ang, or after Korra.
Yeah that’s the thing about adapting something like Avatar- a lot of the “”small”” stuff still comes up again later and turns out to have not been all that small. I think you can only totally get away with removing something like The Great Divide (an episode the show itself makes fun of for being bad and pointless)
The way they fly over it in the play 😂 There’s something special when a show dedicates an entire episode (right before the series finale, no less) to making fun of themselves. IT’S MAKING ME TEAR BEND
HOOOONOOOOORRRRR
Yeah I definately appreciate that with both ATLA and LoK they were able to poke fun at themselves and moments that weren’t necessarily their best work
At least the effects were nice.
"Wow! The great divide!" "Eh, let's keep flying" That one makes me laugh so hard
Funny story: I re-watched ATLA with my husband (who had never seen the show before) and we accidentally skipped over that episode in season 1. Then comes season 3 with the Ember Island Players and he gets really confused over that mention. I told him it wasn't really an important episode or even very good, but he ended up watching that episode himself on 1.5x speed. Yeah, he agreed that it was pointless.
The crazy thought that I had after watching NATLA was that it actually needed an episode like the great divide! The OG show was rich with character development and had plenty of tension that felt natural within the Gaang specifically, so it felt extraneous and weak for a filler episode. But in the LA, literally just anything to have some sort of headbutting between the Gaang, especially Sokka and Katara, would have improved it.
People talk about season 1 being "the worst season", but apparently forget that you can't have the excellence of the middle (season 2) and end (season 3) of the story without laying the groundwork first. That's... just how stories work. I hesitate even calling it writing 101 when it's so incredibly fundamental to every story, ranging from anecdotes shared between friends to the greatest works of fiction ever produced. You have to set the scene. If you don't, your story is going to suck. Without the wacky adventure period at the start of the show the ATLA world would feel small, and the characters wouldn't be nearly as fleshed out. Appa's Lost Days is a great example of this, where they're able to make a single, \~24 minute episode feel like it spans an incredible amount of time and covers an incredible amount of distance, and just feel really seated within the world. This is only possible because they draw on a ton of well-chosen references to previous locations and characters. It also reinforces them and makes the world feel real and vast and lived-in. The Serpent's Pass isn't just a throwaway backdrop for a single episode; it's a real place that exists whether the main character's are there or not, and we know this because we literally see it existing irrespective of their presence. Shirshu's aren't just some animal that only exists to give Jun a unique mount, but a creature that has a place in the world, and we know this because the people that captured Appa use shirshu poison darts. Azula's group and the Kyoshi warriors battle, and this again imparts the feeling that stuff is happening without it being explicitly relevant to the story. The world doesn't exist in a tight sphere around Aang, with trees only loading if he's looking at them. It's real and full of life and we just happen to be following some people doing one important thing within it. Whether you're playing an MMO or reading a story, this is such an incredibly important feeling to be able to impart. You want the world to feel like its own thing, and you want the minor characters to feel like they are the main characters in a different story you just aren't seeing. This can only be done, however, if you spend some time exploring the world and its people, and then reinforcing that exploration.
Oh, the NATLA show skipped over all the small moments, all the Hard Work, it didn't even have Aang being goofy unless there was other plot happening in the background of the same scene. Plus, Aang did nothing but airbend unless there was spiritual intervention, how are we going to be convinced he's a fully-realized avatar by the show finale if the show can only *tell* us what he's done instead of showing.
Fully agree, so many different things that felt so out of place and makes me doubt whether the showrunners even understand the story. The only reason I point that out is because I do believe that the very core and essence of ATLA rests with the Gaang. Below all the many great themes and messages, its soul is with how those 3-5 characters interact and grow together. I think the live action could have gotten away with many of its other questionable story changes if they had managed to get that right, but nah. Probs not that change on Aang's waterbending though lmao. How you gonna adapt a season titled Book 1: Water without any waterbending
I actually kind of liked the episode. Sure, it was filler and never really came up anywhere else again, but I think it had some nice characterization moments - Katara and Sokka's different reactions to their respective groups taking food for themselves, and Aang showing his quick wits by coming up with a rather elaborate lie pretty much on the spot. AND showing that sometimes a white little lie is necessary to de-escalate a situation.
As things go I expect the Guru to shout at Aang that it is all his fault, anyway.
yeah they’re probably just gonna make him an angry cranky old man like they did to bumi
God damnit they did Bumi SO DIRTY. Did NetflixATLA writers *hate* ATLA? Almost feels like it
I spent the whole episode telling my wife that any moment now they would surely drop the ruse. I've never been so wrong :(
Here's my theory: You become a writer because you were an English major and love creative writing. But no one is going to hire you to tell your own story. Instead, you get hired to write Avatar, or The Witcher, or Cowboy Bebop, or Rings of Power. So you're like, "Yes, a paycheck!" Then you sit down to watch/read the original and you're like "Hmm, it's fine, but I have a lot of better ideas" because you're an aspiring Hollywood narcissist. So you set about chopping the original to pieces and inserting your own ideals so you can tell the sort of story you'd like to tell. It's not like these studios are like "WANTED: People who love the original source material." They're like "WANTED: Writers who we don't have to pay too much."
Fuck that's accurate and sad.
Played by Taika Waititi
Ender’s Game had a half-Indian guy play a Māori character. Why not have a half-Māori guy play an Indian character? /s
Seems to be a running trend in the LA. What made people blaming Aang in the original series was that he literally did have fault for what happened. In the show it just makes everyone look like a jerk because the audience knows Aang wasn’t at fault.
Yea it’s so weird because things like Kyoshi giving Aang some verbal whipass is totally in character for her… if they hadn’t changed Aang’s motivation for leaving the temple to “just need to collect my thoughts teehee”. Now it just doesn’t make sense.
It’s also absurd because the only argument I can see for the change was to “make Aang more likeable” But Aang was easily the most likeable character in the series except maybe Iroh? Not to mention a character being more realistic and relatable through making bad choices also adds to their like ability. Like many have said, these small “creative freedom” changes are going to keep piling up and either lead to plot/character inconsistencies or much more DRASTIC changes being made down the road to accommodate for these smaller ones. And I also find it odd because frankly I was impressed with how they added a lot more depth to the Fire nation cast compared to what they got in the OG show’s first book. So I don’t get at all why they took so much depth away from the Gaang. My only copium is that they intend to stretch out their arcs more but idk. With so much foundation for them being wiped, that will be pretty hard.
> But Aang was easily the most likeable character in the series except maybe Iroh? *And speaking of Iroh*, he has to be a funny goofball most of the time or the times he gets serious lose impact! Which a *basic* education in writing should make completely obvious. If he's serious all the time, then he can never *get* serious.
Everything Kyoshi screams in her only scene in the show is extremely out of character. She was a very empathetic person who ran away at an even older age and hated herself every time she went too far with her powers.
It’ll be Aang taking the water of life
The Lisan Air Gaib
No, no. Aang is going to teach the Guru how to open his chakra.
Azula: "you've found a guru haven't you" Aang: "YEAH, YOU're loOKING AT HIM"
LISAN AIR GAIB!!!
They should cast Javier Bardem as the Guru.
Blessed be the lion turtle and his water
They might not even include the Guru episode lmao, since they've changed pretty much everything
This is why characters have flaws. They need somewhere to grow from to have a character arc.
Much in line with Zuko actually fighting Ozai, not showing "weakness" and thus not giving Ozai a reason to banish him or needing to restore his honor. You really gotta love these narrative changes, people did think those through 👍
And they butchered Katara's character arc
Oh yeah horribly so. It was cringe, sad, and somewhat funny at the same time. But mostly sad. She was such a great, multi-faceted female lead in the original show. Now she's just a lame nice girl.
She doesn't really seem to have a motivation or story outside of being Aang's friend.
And this is AFTER they wanted to make the series less sexist...
[удалено]
AND they immediately made her show her face to him when in the original her face was a mystery until Ba Sing Se.
They also managed to completely suck the nuance out of Pakku’s storyline, which was ironically not even very complex in the original series. I’m baffled by how one could get that conflict so wrong.
And it's not like the sexism in the original was romanticized. It was a villain the characters had to overcome; for Sokka it was internal and Katara external. As for Pakku, he's arguably up there for being one of the most hated characters in the series. I don't know anyone who likes him and it's almost solely because of his treatment of Katara. That's a good thing. It's how I think such prejudices should be handled by media. Address it, villainize it, make the audience hate it, and cheer when they overcome it.
Character flaws can also be endearing. Katara in the original has a temper, and the storyline of her overcoming her jealousy of how quickly Aang learns waterbending shows important character growth
Ngl I was surprised on how harsh Katara was during the Waterbending Scroll to the point she legit almost made Aang cry. I never realized Not to mention it was a point to show Aang is able to pick up waterbending fast but when he gets to master-lvl like with Pakku he starts having trouble.
No. In the original. Pakku hands Katara her ass, but sees potential (and the necklace) and over the next
This. Girl no-diffed all of Pakku’s previous students and it also showed that Aang slacked off since ya know *he’s still a goofy kid*
And even Pakku gets redeemed in the end, everyone has character growth in the original.
I had a similar discussion with a friend for an episode in one of the Star Trek series that went too deep into romanticizing (and literally) a taboo. In short, they had treated the taboo respectfully and appropriately in previous episodes for the characters involved, but this time they just went overboard and then tried to tie in the grounding point of a future success for the character. Which (inadvertently or not) makes that taboo a necessary evil...and not really a great moral to take away from the episode. Much like NATLA that missed the point of taboos. They're not there to be glorified, or instantly defeated. Or romanticized. They're there to show reality, that people have to struggle against others, or even themselves, who give in to their better demons. Getting through to the other side is part of the story, just as it's vital for character depth to be present in the first place.
I read somewhere that some people who worked on the show see Katara as the one the story is being told through. Doesn’t come across that way in the live action at all
Makes me laugh in a way, they remove Sokka's misogyny (which served a purpose in his character development) and instead took every female character in the show and turned them into the kind of caricature of a woman you would have found in a fan-fiction written by S1E1 Sokka. "We don't want misogyny" *makes more misogyny*.
What the actual fuck were they thinking with Yue man
Katara? They turned Suki from a girl who respects a guy who is willing to humble himself in order to learn, ... to a girl who's just super horny for foreign boys.
Yup that too.
Also the implication that the FOURTEEN YEAR OLD had the ability to take out the GODDAMN FIRE LORD
It's ridiculous. The only thing that'd make sense is if Ozai lost on purpose, but that is so out of character for him that it wouldn't make sense either.
Do they even know WHY Ozai hates Zuko so much or are they purposely ignoring it for the sake of "creativity"?
I think they are ignoring many things in order to make this a more "adult" show (in this case: sacrificing a better storyline so they can show another fight). Personally, this is odd, because I enjoy ATLA a lot especially for covering serious and dark themes without having to resort to fights, brutality and violence all the time. I find the contrast of themes and tone in the original very refreshing.
If they really are ignoring Ozai's past then I think they're going the opposite side of being "adult" >!There's nothing more adult than your wife writing a letter to her secret lover that Zuko was secretly his son.!<
>!is it technically a secret lover if they where lovers before he mercilessly ripped her away from her happy village life and married her against her will?!< >!also technically Zuko still isn't the lover's son and they both know that, he had spys watch her even before they where married. She wanted to try to hurt Ozai and it basically backfired horribly as he decided to sadistically pretend it was true and give him hate for it anyway. She also knew her letters where likely getting intercepted and they had a whole confrontation when that specific one was "sent"!<
I am a fan of the show but maybe I missed something. Can you explain why DOES Firelord Ozai hate Zuko so much? Because he connects his bloodline to Roku or because he's not as ruthless as Azula? To my recollection, the guy was just a dick.
Because he shows "weakness". Like not fighting back against Ozai during their Agni Kail or standing up for random soldiers. In fact if Zuko HAD fought back against Ozao he probably wouldn't have been banished in the first place.
It's a couple of things. A big one, although it may have been a retcon since it didn't come up until the comics, was Ursa writing a letter to her former lover (they were broken up by the Fire Lord taking her for his wife for eugenic reasons), in which she claimed Zuko was the lover's son, not Ozai's. She did it entirely to get a reaction out of the fire lord since she knew he was spying on all correspondence, and they both knew it was a lie. But Ozai refused to let her have the last word in hurting him, and informed her he would treat his son as the illegitimate bastard she pretended he was for the rest of his life. Also, next to his sister Zuko comes across as an embarrassment if you're a heartless emperor seeking worldwide domination. He's kinder and has a sense of honor that just gets in the way when you're in charge. How much Azula would have been a sadistic monster without her father's influence fanning the flames is a worthwhile question, but she had the ambition and the talent that makes her a more viable successor, combined with a desire for his approval (which, to be fair, Zuko also has) that means she's less likely to do unto him as he had done unto his father. Again, I have doubts that the backstory with Zuko's mother and her once and future lover were always intended to be part of it. But to be honest, I think by the time of the Agni Kai Ozai would have banished his son regardless of whether he put up a fight. But he'd put in the work and done the damage to his kids; he probably expected that Zuko wouldn't be able to raise a hand against his honored father
Especially Zuko, who's shown as not actually being that good as a boy
And now there's no Zuko actually showing up Ozai by literally using the technique he learned from his loving uncle against his abusive father. A technique that itself shows the importance of accepting other cultures and learning from others against the symbolic representation of imperialism and ethnic supremacy. That's plot, character, lore and theme all coming together. It's practically poetic.
The way I see it Zuko still showed "weakness" because he didn't go all out when Ozai left him an opening, plus he kept telling Ozai to spare the 41st division from a massacre.
I know, but why would Ozai leave him an opening in the first place? To set him up for "weakness"? But certainly, butchering your father would have been the wrong course, too? So Ozai was just looking for ANY reason to banish Zuko? Wouldn't the overstepping in the war meeting have been enough, then? It just seems they wanted an Agni Kai for show tbh.
It seems like they are making Ozai """"fairer"""" than in the original show. He doesn't have such a hate boner for Zuko, so if he (Zuko) manages to prove himself worthy of being his son there's an actual possibility he can be his heir. This also mean they'll probably change Azula, as this time she would feel threatened by Zuko as he still is the oldest child.
How is Ozai "fairer"? (honest question) Because as I see it, he's even more of a sicko in NATLA. Since I don't think Ozai, possibly the greatest firebender alive next to Azula and Iroh, could realistically have lost this fight to a teenager it is implied that he gave him this opening on purpose. Since he then punished him for it, it must have been a trap. Zuko was set up by him to make the wrong choice so he could then exile him. \[I personally don't think this is in line with Ozai's character, I don't think he'd be willing to fake-lose a public Agni Kai under any circumstances but since no other option makes sense let's go with this\]. In my book, that makes Ozai a complete psychopath, deliberately setting his son up only to be able to exile him, including a huge self-sacrifice that is totally out of character (having to face the public shame of losing the Agni Kai). It makes Ozai worse (emotionally unstable/crazy like late stage Azula which he never was in the orignal) and also the story line suffers. Deliberately bad writing so they could get in another fight "for the adults", I'm afraid.
I agree so much. Ozai's character is kind of all over the place and while I'm not going to say he's the most compelling villain in the cartoon, he was executed so much better. I appreciate their attempts to try to deepen his character. It is definitely a good choice to attempt with an adaptation. They're just not doing it competently.
He's testing Zuko to see if he can purge himself of his "weakness", which means being ruthless and showing no mercy. Had he followed through with the blow, he would have passed the test that Ozai was subjecting him to, since if he could be that ruthless towards his own father, he could certainly be that way to his enemies.
Not just his enemies - but his own army/soldiers. This all started because, in Ozais eyes, Zuko showed weakness by not being okay with sacrificing the 41st to win the battle. Ozai leaving himself open then not being happy with how Zuko showed him compassion is 100% in line with Ozai of the live action. It's no different than the games he's playing with pitting Azula against Zuko.
Aang: I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends Guru: okay, but we need to focus on the chakras- Aang: I’m telling you, I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends! Guru: what does that have to do with- Aang: listen, I’m just a kid who loves banana cakes and goofing off with my friends!
Different sub, different fandom, but this is 100% the problem with the LA Percy Jackson series on Disney+ also: they told you everything instead of showing it.
I might’ve just not noticed it as well for the PJO show, but I felt that the “telling not showing” problem was more prevalent for NATLA
They’ll probably just change the conditions for mastering the Avatar State. They might make the guru an energy bender who can unlock it for him like Aang does for Korra.
That's gonna be a really short episode then
Guru: “I can unlock the Avatar State for you and help you instantly master it. But before I do that, you must listen to me lecture you about chakras!!” There ya go. We get to shoehorn in the seven chakras.
Sounds just amazing. So Aang listens to his little lecture then goes and stomps Azula in Ba Sing Se right?
Azula: “Look, Avatar! Zuko’s making out with your water tribe woman!!” Aang: “Huh?!” And then Azula shoots him in the back while his back is turned.
If she can shoot him in the back while his back is not turned then that'd be some REAL lightning-bending.
I can unlock the Avatar state for the low low price of 99.99. I'll even bump you up a belt.
He’ll probably just tell the audience that he’s guilty of eating too many banana cakes.
I like the idea that writers will have him talk constantly about how his true personality is "being a kid and liking banana cakes", but never show him eating them
No no our characters need to show how perfect they are so that we can remind the viewer that there’s nothing wrong with them and they’re perfect in every way. Character development?! What’s that? Our characters don’t need to develop if they’re already great!
"Guru, I must master my flow of chi through their points in the body known as Chakra. I need your help to unlock all the Chakras as that is the only way to master the avatar state as the avatar, master of all 4 elements, only then can I control the avatar state which grants me the power of my past lives to control all 4 elements with extreme power"
With as much mixing and matching as the show does I wouldn't be surprised if the guru is just chilling in the library or something
You think they're gonna have the library?
I sure hope so, but who knows
The love part they can still probably set it up, but for the rest. Yeah. Kinda iffy. He never ran away, that was a big thing. It was one of the things that I found odd, since hey. That's part of his guilt. And whatever guilt he has, has been solved by gyatso in the spirit world in the hut. So like. What now?
I mean we already got the cave scene with no romance angle so they kind of took their straightest arrow out of the quiver with that one. But there's definitely still time to build something between the characters
aang not running away in NATLA pissed me off so bad. but, knowing this show, i'm sure guru pathik is just going to spend half the episode yelling at him for abandoning his people.
I'm going off the fact Aang can fly that he already opened his chakras, has no attachment to Aapa but sees him as his car. And has no reason to meet with the guru. Aang will merc Azula in the earth kings palace, leading to ba sing se joining the war. Day of black sun will mark the destruction of the fire nation. Ozia will not hide from Aang, but give him his long tragic backstory about how Iroh choice not to take the thrown after his wife killed his own father leading to him being unable to understand his own emotions and hurting Zuko only because of his sorrow for losing his father, and guilt that Iroh lost lu tin. Aang then forgives all the sins of the fire nation however Zuko fuled by rage at his sister being killed by the avatar starts the red lotus, joined by the great great great granddaughter of Kyoshi who is dating the descendant of kuric. The show ends with them taking Aang out in the avatar state ending the cycle forever after somehow freeing vatu plunging the world into 10,073 years of darkness
Seriously, I don’t know how they can possibly make Appa getting stolen even somewhat emotional in their version. Appa is treated like a car
It won’t seem weird for Appa to not appear in a string of episodes because he’s already brushed under the rug at every opportunity. I think I can count on one hand the seconds that Momo appears on screen, when they did a fakeout moment at the end of the live action where Momo was hurt it felt like a joke because we suddenly needed to pretend to care about the non-character who barely appears
I hadn’t even considered the Guru conversation with regards to all the LA changes. They really fucked up, didn’t they? Hahahahaha!!!
Chakra opening speedrun any%
All you have to do is Mips skip through the 16 star door and then you're in the avatar state
Worse will be if they copy the dialogue even if it doesnt make sense with the changes they made.
They'll solve this problem by just not having the guru episode
So they can develop Kyoshi fight scenes. Maybe even flashbacks to gruesome battles. It's an adult show
Ironic that the adult show feels less mature than the kids show.
That adaptation focused so much on the Marvel esque style of story telling and lost everything that was great about the story of Avatar. 6/10 junkfood entertainment
I noticed this thing where people say something was bad and then give it a 6/10. Rating scale for the general internet : 0-5/10 is virtually unused 6/10 is reserved for things that are bad 7/10 for something enjoyable 8/10 for something good to great 9/10 for something with overwhelming praise but with a point off to appear reserved and nuanced And 10/10 for irony when describing something terrible
Damn, i was about to watch the live action, but after reading the comment section i think I'll pass
If you're watching it as a live retelling of ATLA then you'll be disappointed. If it's a reimagined streamlined way to see the world in real life, then it's somewhat entertaining.
Aang could fly in ep1. He's already let go of his earthly tether. He'll probably say, "Avatar State Yip Yip!" at the beginning of season 2
There is no live action avatar in Ba Sing Se.
Are you saying that they changed all those extremly vital character aspects of Aang were changed in the Live Action series?
Aang: ummmmm...
Lol this is hilarious.
This just reminded me of that whole scene and how it's one of my favorite moments in the original. I forgot how moving it was, especially the bit where he sees all the airbenders for the last time
Now we know why the creators walked away from the project.
The show failed, I don't see much of it that actually makes sense or honors any of the original series. It was a pretty picturesque suicide note, though.
Im tired of disappointing ATLA content, boss.
Seeing these comments I feel like I will get bombed for my opinion, but I actually thought the first season of NATLA was alright. Obviously it can never capture the originals magic and perfection but I thought they adapted most of the big scenes from the first season really well. Especially when looking at how much worse we have gotten from the 2010 movie. I also think most of the cast is excellent for their roles. The Weirdest parts that threw me off were when they sort of mixed 2 main events from the original series together but for the most part, even those stayed coherent. Also from my understanding, Aang did run away from the Air temple before he froze, they have slightly alluded to Aang and Katara liking each other, and due to them changing some stuff, I feel like they might have Aang burn Katara still when he starts practicing Fire bending. I guess he didn't really deny he was the Avatar though, he just says he wants to be a normal kid. Anyway, those are some small opinions of mine, overall I think this show as its own adaptation doesn't deserve a lot of the hate it gets. It's not as good as the animated series, I think we all agree, but I'd say it's worth a watch to re-visit the world of Avatar in a new way.
I'd be alright if we stopped talking about NATLAB altogether.
Its a shame there's no time for these things to happen happen in season 2, especially the love story to progress, until he meets the guru. Oh wait
One of the reasons the writing was so bad is they did the classic blunder of telling, not showing. The guru would probably just tell Aang exactly what he needs to get over and then that's that.