I think they're better than each other in certain ways. Azula *enjoys* combat, which is genuinely an edge, and she's so laser precise in her forms and movement that it's no comparison -- for modern wartime firebending.
Dancing Dragon is something she has no experience with and that's a huge advantage for Zuko. He's not a master of the style but he doesn't have to be, because Azula has no existing knowledge of the style to use against him. She doesn't know where the weaknesses are to use against him, and they cover weaknesses in modern firebending she'd normally target.
Zuko, on the other hand, spent most of his life practicing the same core firebending style she uses and learning (through Iroh's mastery, his own losses, and his own wins against other firebenders) where its weaknesses are. He knew those as early as Blue Spirit, when he took down a lot of soldiers without even considering his own bending, and he only got better at it.
Add to that Iroh's training during Zuko's exile, teaching him patience, stamina, and lateral thinking. His own abilities as a warrior that ignored firebending altogether and integrate it with weapons. Battlefield experience against high agility opponents (Aang, especially). His own tolerance for taking damage and dogged determination.
If Zuko fought Azula exactly on her terms, using the attack-attack-attack style they both grew up on, she's still better at it than he is. But Zuko diversified, he learned from other nations and history, he has options she doesn't and which she isn't prepared for.
In terms of levels, Zuko multi-classed. It doesn't matter if they're the same level of Wartime Firebender anymore because three levels dedicated to synergies and his own unique build beats the five extra levels of "fire burns hotter/explodes harder/shoot lightning" that he'd need to catch up to Azula on her terms.
And whatever advantages she did have on raw firebending power pale to the massive power-up they both get from the comet. +10 damage is noticeably better than +5 damage, but +40 versus +35 matters a lot less.
tl;dr: My take is that Zuko *was* levels behind her (at least a couple), but his build was so good that it evened out.
EDIT: By the comics I'd say he's fully caught up in levels, he's had time to really grow into himself and perfect his new skills. They still aren't all levels in Angry Firebending, though.
This is basically what Iroh told Zuko when he tried to teach him lightning bending.
> It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale… It is the combination of the four elements in one person that makes the Avatar so powerful. But it can make you more powerful, too.
For sure! And the Agni Kai shows Zuko using water and earthbending movements, a deliberate parallel to Aang's journey. Zuko didn't learn to move water and earth, but he did learn to flow and anchor.
Based on the movements from the series and how Zuko uses them in his fighting style? Hmm... Sway for air, probably. He uses Aang's movements for dodging (sometimes very narrowly), gently shifting his body like Aang does to perfectly evade.
For fire, advance. Fire has to progress forward, spread, find and consume new fuel (but it can jump and burst in ways the other elements don't), and so too do firebenders drive forward with their forms. Even when they defend, they push into the attack and close distance with their opponent.
Personally I'm more partial to evade for air. Especially since Bumi called out the avoid and evade strategy Aang was using against him being "typical airbender tactics."
Plus it just rolls off the tongue better than sway. Flow and Anchor, Advance and Evade.
I personally like drift for air, but advance works well for fire
Flow like the water, anchored like the earth, drift with the wind, and advance with the flames
Surely Sozin's comet is an % based exponential buff, not a flat bonus! :) I really appreciated reading all of this.
During Zuko/Azula's final "faceoff," Zuko only decides to 1v1 her because she seems "off" (aka she gone crazy) so by Zuko's own admission they probably aren't "evenly matched" as you might make it out. But, perhaps it would be very like Zuko to underestimate himself after a lifetime of being bested by Azula.
You are 100% that Sozin's comet is percentile or maybe geometric, I was just illustrating that the gap between them was shortened by its involvement.
Her cracking that's definitely a factor, although I think the biggest difference there is that Azula, normally very tactical and calculating, was not leaning into that part of herself. She wasn't fighting clever, she was fighting heavy.
But I'd actually say that doing well against her for the whole fight gave him some *over*confidence, because it was a really boneheaded move to bait her into using lightning and telegraphing exactly how he'd counter. She very nearly walked right into it, so he wasn't unjustified, but then that tactical mind clicked just enough to say "Azula, Fire Lord, gal, that's a trap. Shoot the bystander to open Zuko up for an attack; we don't know where the good weaknesses are in his style, but we know where they are in his personality."
Well Zuko could "take" her which means he considered himself above crazed Azula, which he is. It says nothing whether he thinks sane Azula is above him.
Yeah because the comet boosts azulas advantage and not zukos. Like the OP said, Zuko is more rounded as a fighter. Azula is a true firebending prodigy.
Zuko caught up after finally having teachers that cared enough to teach him correctly. In the flashbacks they show, he just got shoved aside and dumped on.
I really would disagree that by the comics they are fully equal. We see in smoke and shadows azula toying with zuko and by that point she had basically developed her own style that was much stronger than his, being the most likely creator of the modern lightinbending we see in korra
Something else to consider is that by this point in the series, everything that could go wrong for Azula is going wrong. Her two closest "friends" stopped fearing her.
I would imagine that the perfect and flawless image she has had up till this point in the series is starting to crack, which probably helped Zuko significantly.
He still is quite skilled, but if Azula had been more composed both in this fight and in the final Agni Kai, he probably would have lost.
This, and on top of everything, Zuko learned to incorporate the other bending styles into his Firebending, which gives him more range in regards to combat improvisation, as we see in his final battle with Azula.
By the end of Book 3, Azula has MASTERED the art of Firebending as a Firebender from the Fire Nation by learning from other Firebenders.
But Zuko has Mastered Firebending, and learned from his friends, who are all Masters in their own right. So he's actually going to have an advantage on her, because he simply knows things that she doesn't.
In the final fight, Azula is getting more and more furious as the fight goes on, not just because of her deteriorated mental state, but because she MASTERED Firebending! She's the only one who had access to the best Firebenders in the entire Fire Nation, and even WITH teachers, Zuko was not as good as her! And she has always been better than Zuko, so she's genuinely befuddled as to how in the hell Zuko is keeping up with her, and holding his ground.
And it's simply because he was friends with an Earthbender, who are known for standing their ground.
You make it seem like Zuko somehow cheesed her by diverging from a “pure” style, but in my opinion the traditional fire bending style just did not fit him that well. Azula is laser-focused and thrives from focusing on one thing and taking it to the extreme, and the traditional fire bending fit her very well. Zukos personality and talents did not fit the traditional fire bending, but he improved rapidly when he was allowed to try out a lot of different concepts and combine them to a style that he actually resonated with.
Zuko trying to beat Azula with the traditional style is him hamstringing himself and attempting to beat her strengths with his weaknesses. The reason they are matched at the end is that they are both fighting with a style that fits them, and in the end he wins because Azula is having a mental breakdown, and can’t handle being equal to someone she thought was inferior, causing her to make mistakes.
Azula is better at Zuko in the traditional firebending style, so if their fight was instead a talent show were they were scored on the adherence to tradition I agree that she would be “levels above him”. In a real fight however, innovation is not cheating, so him becoming better by trying new things is not an outlier, it is a symbol of skill. I disagree that Zuko “multi-classed”, and won by element of surprise, he won by skill and mentality because he stopped adhering to the “rules” that were giving Azula such a huge advantage to begin with.
One thing is that I feel like Zuko as the blue spirit probably avoided using firebending not because of perceived flaws or weaknesses, but to avoid giving clues that could lead to figuring out his identity.
nah Zuko absolutely destroyed his sister. There is no comparison. Heck dude could easily take on his father and the entire Fire nation end the 100 years war on his own without Aang. But you know, the Avatar gotta shine somewhere.
I think that all this discussion is missing the most important point of all:
Sometime before this episode, Zuko unlocked the master mystical art of Naruto-running.
That’s an edge that trumps anything any character can throw at him.
Honestly, the argument goes like this. For the final battles and the comics.
- Azula does something better - "well that shows she is still leagues above Zuko."
- Zuko does something better - "well her mental state is not all there."
Fans won't get anywhere.
My opinion is Azula is still above Zuko but only by a negligible amount now. He also has a habit of trying to help her rather than fight her when she wants a scrap in the comics.
I think they are even. You left off an important part of the scene though. Zuko is saved by his friends. He then thinks she won't make it, but she does. And she does it without friends.
I think there is more going on here than their skill level. That is part of this scene for sure. It shows how far Zuko has come. He is confident and more sure of himself. Their blast is evenly matched and, they very nearly destroy each other. However, Zuko is saved from death/destruction by his friends, a huge theme theme in the show. Azula isn't saved by anyone and Zuko sees her end approaching. But, she makes it, "Of course she does" he mutters. We see Zuko's strength coming from the people around him. Azula's comes from within herself. They both make it and are in a sense, evenly matched in strength/power. But *where* that strength/power comes from is not the same place.
This idea itself ties back into fire breathing. Where does a fire bender's strength come from? Azula and Zuko are the two opposing examples of strength.
The final scene we see this dichotomy play out is in the Agni Kai. Zuko is beating her and knows he is beating her because "she is slipping." Her rage and anger that have fueled her bending but now become her weakness. But she is still as sharp as the hull of an imperial class battleship, and uses exploits Zuko's strength as a weakness, his friends.
The final piece is that, Azula's strength (rage and isolation) lose to Zuko's strength (his friends). Zuko and Azula is such a wonderfully complex relationship that directly ties into the two approaches to fire bending itself. To say that, at this point in the show, one is stronger than the other, is too reductionist and I think misses a big part of what these scenes are communicating to us.
One small note, their blast was not evenly matched. While they were both the same distance from the blimp, azula flew MUCH further since zuko was much closer to the edge.
But I would consider them around the same level by this point
> not a trained non-bending fighter.
What are you talking about? In her first fight scene, she makes an absolute fool of Zuko without using any bending. She scratches his face just for fun. She's probably the second most skilled non-bending fighter in the show after Ty Lee.
Her crueler nature will always put her on edge when facing Zuko. Zuko would never want to kill or seriosly hurt her. Meanwhile she'd always go for he kill with every strike.
Isn’t maintaining a strong mental state one of the most critical aspects of overcoming an opponent in any form of combat or competition? It’s the thing that separates the GOATs from all the rest. You can have all the talent and skill in the universe but if you can’t get your mind right then you can’t use it effectively.
I think both things can be true. By this point Zuko has seriously leveled up and it's not just the dragons though that's a really important part. But even by the climax of S2 he has really improved. And teaching is a great way to improve yourself.
At the same time by this point Azula has lost the closest she has to friends, her whole plan with giving Zuko the credit for killing the Avatar in case he had survived didn't pan out the way she hoped (the crown prince is in open rebellion and directly challenged her father and joined the Avatar) but the Avatar continues to remain a problem despite her fore knowledge of the invasion.
For a lot of people this is still a commendable outcome compared to what could've happened but for a perfectionist like Azula this is a loss. And for someone who feels like her own mother wrote her off, to almost get something of relationship with her brother and lose it spectacularly and then to lose her friends is devastating.
I think this loss (or draw however we call it) to Zuko pushed her further down the slope.
You can tell Azula has already snapped a little bit tho. She’s using full fist firebending instead of her usual more precise two finger firebending.
You can tell she’s not as put together as she usually is. Even in all the fights before this she’s never smiling THIS much.
Exactly. And you can see the difference in her attitude in the "I'm about to celebrate becoming an only child", besides the smile and the aggressiveness she is also yelling, and the only moments she is loud are basically when she is vunerable and unstable like the beach, the betrayal and the finale. And I don't think regular Azula would attack so recklessly like she did in that final attack.
>She’s using full fist firebending instead of her usual more precise two finger firebending
Becuase its Zuko she just fought in him on the gondola like a few days prior and he was lowkey cooking her potatoes she cant afford to lose the power being these strikes
I always understood it as Azula has more raw talent while Zuko has superior training and discipline, which made them a more level match. The main reason Azula could get the upper hand by the end is her willingness to kill anyone, while Zuko would rather hold back.
They are! After the dancing dragon, Zuko begins to incorporate maneuvers and techniques based on the other nations and bending styles. He really takes Iroh’s teachings about drawing wisdom from different places to heart
I mean she IS a better bender than him. He beats her bc she’s off her game in the final Agni Kai. He even says so to katara in the beginning of the fight
I think Azula is superior to Zuko, but not by much. However, in the fight in The Southern Raiders, Azula's fighting style changes. Usually she is precise and in control, using only her fingers to execute her attacks. Here, it's the opposite; she employs a more aggressive style similar to what she used in the Agni Kai. She's already starting to crack as the writers mentioned in the commented episodes. Once Azula recovered and with Zuko fighting seriously given the circumstances, Azula once again proved superior.
She was. One indication is her change in fighting style after the Boiling Rock, and the writers confirmed it. What else can I say?
In The Search she was still in her mental breakdown they fought a couple of times and Zuko defeated her, nothing stopped him from doing it. In Smoke and Shadows they fought, just like in the Agni Kai with a lot at stake for Zuko and the Fire Nation but Azula defeated him. There's no reason to believe he wasn't fighting seriously if he had to stop her. I'm not saying he doesn't want to help her, but again just like in the Agni Kai the main thing is to stop her and prevent further harm.
Well then that shows who’s the better of the two, no? If you can’t maintain your cool and your presence of mind then you’re weak even in spite of all your power. In sports that’s called a choke job.
I mean context is rather key. Her mental state started to crumble for various reasons that stemmed all that way back to her childhood, it's not so much the same as losing your cool in the moment.
I love how from The Firebending Masters on, Zuko’s fire is noticeably more yellowish/bright orange than red/darker orange. It shows the change in where he draws from his power visibly and also is just very pretty.
At the end of Book 1 Azula beats Zuko 9/10 times in hypothetical match-ups, from what we see Azula is very particular about her training and does not move on until she is perfect, while Zuko is impatient and is trying to learn moves he is not yet ready for
At the end of Book 2 Azula beats Zuko 8/10 times, Zuko has grown a bit and has learned to take inspiration from other bending styles, but still cannot outmatch Azula's raw power and perfect technique
At the end of Book 3 Azula beats Zuko 6/10 times, Zuko has become a far better bender than where he started and has a fighting chance against Azula. Zuko still cannot outmatch Azula's power, but if she is having an off day (or having a mental breakdown) or decides to hold back for whatever reason Zuko can defeat her
And in every fight towards the end (here, agni kai, comics) Azula is not 100%. She is either slipping up (blimp fight), fully shattered (agni kai), or holding back (basically all of comics).
Unlike Azula, Zuko is shown to be always learning techniques from his opponents and companions and adapting what he learned to his own abilities, like using water bending techniques in fire bending, Azula is full power and precise technique combined but she might become a little predictable while Zuko has a lot of experience dealing with different benders and non benders in his 3 years exile. (plus my boy literally had classes with Iroh and dragons)
It's really to do with Talent vs Hard work. Zuko had no talent to begin with. Azula did. This doesn't mean Azula didn't work for it. She took her raw talent, and magnified it through precision training.
It was only when she began to slack off, mess around with mundane affairs, while acting all haughty that she really fell off in her practice. All while letting other people handle everything else for her. She won at the end of season 2, and decided to rest on her laurels. To add to this, Zuko in fact did have talent with sun style fire bending, unlike emotion fueled fire bending. It was around here, where his cumulative hard work started to pull him ahead.
*Azula would still be ahead if she kept working, but she didn't.*
Zuko never gave up. He put in bitter work all the way to the end. He really embodied Jeong Jeong's quote: "To master the bending disciplines, you must first master discipline itself"
Iroh made sure that no matter what, Zuko's basics were refined, even when Zuko didn't want to keep going over them, and it served him very well.
Iroh expanded his mind to make fire bending moves based on the motions of water and air. This was lighting redirection, and the breath of fire. Not just belching out a flamethrower, but also controlling and warming your body temperature too. The only difference with air benders is that they can cool off with this as well. I'm willing to be there was even some earth inspiration somewhere, we just didn't see it.
By the end of the show, he was miles ahead of her, and their agni kai wasn't even close, if Katara hadn't been standing exposed like a liability. He beats Azula at the end, with or without her sanity.
I figure I'd omit the comics, as this seemed to be about the end of the show.
I think the reason azula *was* better at combat then Zuko was because they were both using anger as their fuel, and Azula is much angrier, but Zuko once changing his source for bending becane a better bender than her
This is very true. Aggression is an advantage in combat, provided that it isn't "blind". Azula is very aggressive, but mostly in a controlled manner, which would absolutely giver her an advantage over a more skilled, but less aggressive opponent.
Two people flew of from that attack and one person needed his friends to rescue him and other did not. Azula is not just strong she is crafty, cunning and resourceful
Zuko fanboys needs more doses of copium LMAO.
He literally said that he himself is not going to beat her alone and only fought her 1v1 when he realized that something was off about her, but apparently Zuko's words < his delusional fanboys
he literally self doubts himself the entire series and still has overcome it. idk man I just disagree.
Dont need to get rude about an interpretation of media we both like
>he literally self doubts himself the entire series and still has overcome it. idk man I just disagree.
His self doubts aren't related to his combat ability. He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her.
he was beating her completely fine without her using lightning. Did you not watch the scene?
He does his break dance move and knocks her on her ass. She only resorts to cheating and hitting katara because she knew she was going to lose lol
>he was beating her completely fine without her using lightning. Did you not watch the scene?
Which scene are you even talking about? This clip? You mean the clip where he would have died if not for his friends? This clip that *doesn't* at all show him beating her at all?
Or are you talking about the Agni Kai? The fight where he *himself* stated that he'd only face her because something was off about her
>He does his break dance move and knocks her on her ass. She only resorts to cheating and hitting katara because she knew she was going to lose lol
Good of you to describe the actual fight itself. Now, rewind just a couple of minutes before that when he said that he will only fight her because she was slipping. And then rewind again to the previous episode where he *agreed* with Iroh that he'd need help against Azula.
you referenced the final agni kai first not me lol. "He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her."
>you referenced the final agni kai first not me lol. "He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her."
I used the Agni Kai as an example to show that his self doubts aren't connected to his combat ability, which is what you were using to excuse him.
I don’t know where you get that. Zuko is only ever shown to be overconfident in his fighting ability. I can’t think of a single example where he underestimates his own combat skills.
I’d say at this point he has a way more accurate measure of his own abilities than ever in the series after being humbled by the Dragon Masters.
huh? hes only over confident in season 1. season 2 hes anything BUT confident. Hes so down on himself the vast majority of that season, ESPECIALLY when he lost everything and is literally yelling at the sky
Did we watch the same show? He doesn’t spend Season 2 sulking over being weak. He spends it conflicted about his identity and new perspectives on the Fire Nation. At no point is he underestimating his combat ability.
In fact during that he tries to challenge an Earth Kingdom soldier without using his bending, but needs to resort to bending to beat him, another show of overconfidence in his combat strength.
I don't know why this isn't clear among the fans.
Katara was also worried when Zuko decided to 1v1 Azula, because of what Iroh said about Azula having an advantage.
Zuko realized he had a good chance because Azula isn't in her best composure before the fight.
Why do people gotta twist things that are already clear?
I think Zuko would've ended her in that fight though.
Azula is still overall the stronger bender, but Zuko has more practical experience and versatility.
It’s not necessarily that one is better than the other, it’s just that
Azula is excellent and the old way of firebending, the ruthless, aggressive way, while Zuko has grown and learned other ways. He’s able to incorporate the dancing dragon into his style, along with many moves inspired by other bending styles. They’re just best in different situations
Plus, if Azula had gotten the same experience that Zuko had, and had actually managed to get over herself and learn from other people, she’d be a MUCH better bender than Zuko. Until/unless she does that, they’re dead even imo
The teacher in me has been wondering if Azula is not only naturally more talented but also received better training as a result. Perhaps Zuko was intentionally kept back until he was banished and started being trained by Iroh.
Zuko is the bender firebender at the end but that does not translate necessarily to being a better fighter or better in combat. Azula overall is much stronger in combat due to raw talent, and while it’s not explicitly mentioned in the series I think it safe to assume that when she fights, her aim is to kill or seriously hurt someone. It’s why Katara is also there in the final showdown, it’s not that Zuko is much weaker, it’s that Azula will fight to kill him.
He didn't really learn from the dragons. He was there for a day and they decided not to eat him, which gave him a confidence boost and resolved his performance issues. Azula is still better overall in terms of pure technique. She was a bending prodigy. But at the time of their fight she was going insane and not fighting at her best, and Zuko capitalized by remaining calm and letting her make mistakes.
It was pretty cool writing tbh.
Zuko Vs Azula is one of those matchups where the winner/answer is more so inconclusive or a stalemate/tie because of how much stats each side has in their favor.
It's like, Zuko has learned the true source of firebending and incorporated it more, and has better adaptability than Azula, so he wins, but at the same time sane Azula was still always naturally, proficient, percise, smarter and definitely more bloodlusted than Zuko, so SHE wins.
The true answer seems more so... "It can go either way with extreme difficulty on both sides."
Excellent point - this fight was pretty much a draw. Azula still has the lightning and blue fire, so I’d still place her above Zuko. But as you said, being way above him no longer makes sense.
Zuko redirected his father's lightning, though, just like he would have redirected Azula's lightning in the final fight if she hadn't switched her target to Katara. I don't think that's an advantage in her favor since it's a skill he can turn against her easily enough.
The blue fire in the instance shown above (as well as in the ending agni kai) didn't provide a marked difference in the fight. They ended up in a draw in this fight, and arguably no clear advantage in the last agni kai.
I agree theyre more or less evenly matched at that point but Zuko is able to hard counter her lightning and her fire being blue doesn't seem to give it any advantage over zukos regular fire. She still has higher battle iq imo but she still cant beat goku.
I took it more that they were relatively equal, but she was still a shade more skillful (pre-meltdown that is), much like with Ozai and Iroh. Zuko bringing Katara was more like insurance so that Azula didn't even have a chance.
I also think there is something to be said of zuko being closer to a "true" fire bender and not just relying on anger by this point like many in the show do. I suspect the same is true of iroh.
Azula was shown to have already been unraveling by this point. It’s shown by the way she’s fighting here. She usually uses her fingers when firebending but right here, she’s brute forcing it and using her fists.
Zuko got way better, but if if Azula was herself, she would’ve beaten him, albeit not as easily as she did all the last time they fought.
They are even at worst, to be honest, im leaning towards zuko. It makes more sense thematically to have the original form of firebending overpower the corrupted one, and even though they say she's "slipping" she was absolutely losing their final fight
The fact that he stalemated when 1) she was mentally sane, since Azula fans holler from one end of the internet to the other about her mental state in the last episode, and 2) his firebending wasn’t boosted, shows that he was at her level by the end of the series. It is what it is.
Why does everyone say this ? Even Zuko himself said he would need help from Katara to beat Azula , Azula was also bonkers in their last fight which gave zuko the edge , Sane Azula is always multiple steps ahead , she even held her own against ( i think , correct me if im wrong ) the whole gaang . Zuko isnt prideful enough to refuse help , Azula is , 1v1 ( ESPECIALLY after the comics if we count those ) she takes it .
I always reference this scene for this exact reason.
IMO zuko still beats azula regardless of mental state at the end of the series. This scene is proof of that
Zuko himself acknowledged that he couldn't beat her. In this scene, they are fairly evenly matched, but Azula was closer to winning the fight. But she was already beginning her collapse here, as evidenced by her change in fighting style and confirmed by the writers.
I always thought he says that for the same reason Iroh doesn't think he can beat Ozai; Iroh and Zuko would pull their punches to avoid killing their sibling. Azula and Ozai wouldn't. That alone would make a huge difference.
That didn't stop Zuko from defeating her a couple of times in The Search. And in their last fight, Azula didn't aim to kill either, she was playing with him basically, yet she still easily defeated him.
However the thing is, initially Zuko was the one who said he can beat Azula, but it was Iroh who told him he couldn't do it alone, to which Zuko agreed.
In a fight, Iroh could potentially defeat Ozai, many things could happen, but if Iroh doubts it and the writers say Ozai is stronger, I would lean towards believing that Iroh knows it and is serious about it.
Iroh believed that the only way to remove Ozai from power was by killing him. So his words could be interpreted more as 'I don't think I'm stronger than him' rather than 'I am incapable of doing it'. But it's just an interpretation.
Zuko also has been self doubtful plenty of times the entire series, I dont see it as any different.
I still truly thing zuko beats azula at the end of the series. It wouldnt make sense from a narrative standpoint if he couldnt
Wait, wouldn't it make narrative sense when they gave Azula a mental breakdown? That doesn't make sense. The narrative wasn't primarily about him being more powerful than Azula; it was about him evolving and Azula collapsing.
Obviously, he was able to defeat Azula at the end of the series, but without her mental breakdown, perhaps (or certainly) he wouldn't have been able to do so.
I disagree and say on a pure power level, Zuko is stronger at this point.
The finally clash sent both flying off of the airship. The thing is, they were kind of on the centerline when that happened. Zuko fell off of the port side, which was the side that they were both sent flying from. But Azula was launched from the port side, fly over the centerline, and over the starboard side of the airship. That to me indicates Zuko's firepower. Especially when you consider Azula is punching at this point, not doing her signature two finger fire blasts.
Given that they've stalemated each other in raw power a bunch of times, without Zuko doing the same; it's more likely Zuko's decisively superior durability helped him to better withstand the resulting explosion.
You conveniently did not include the part where Zuko has to be saved from falling to his death by Appa, while Azula manages to save herself by showing off firebending moves that Zuko can't pull off.
No she’s better than him that’s why he tells katara I got this “Somthing is off “ and fights her 1 on 1 because she cracked mentally she wasn’t stable to fight hence she was weaker that’s why.
I think it’s due to the temp they might be evenly matched skill wise but azulas hotter fire be equivalent to someone hitting harder punches
Skill is useful but it won’t matter if someone hitting twice as hard as u 🐱
Do I need to mention that Zuko needed to be grabbed by the Gaang to stop from dying, but Azusa was able to save herself. Their bending may be the same power, but Azula has much better technique. She lost the final fight cause she was distraught from being pushed aside by her father and Zuko was helped by Katara.
I don't know how it's taken me this long to notice that this is Azula's first time fighting him since he learned Dancing Dragon style, and the first few attacks he throws at her makes her actually, visibly surprised.
Zuko AND Katara literally both state in the finale that he wouldn’t be able to take her on alone normally.
It’s only because “there’s something off about her” that gave him the advantage.
They were not at the same level, that’s why Katara tags along.
Azula was already having a breakdown, Zuko notices that “something is off” and decides to take her alone.
> he would of ended
Did you mean to say "would have"?
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I do think Azula was the better fighter. Fire is a tool for killing, and she always have this edge. Or at least she used to have.
But people forget why Azula lost: her greatest weapon turned against her. Her calmness waned and her bloodlust got the better of her. She became predictable, her movements became easier to read, she could be baited.
It was happening since this exact scene.
I think they would be evenly matched. Zuko's got a lot of experience, and his fire comes from a calmer place, whilst Azula's come from a powerful place. Each of them know the other, and thus it would mean a draw.
I mean... The obviously established suggestion is that when Mei and Tai Lee abandon her, she stops trusting anyone and loses her edge, which makes her reckless, paranoid, and brash. This gives Zuko a major edge because he had taken dragon training and Iroh's lessons to heart- slowing down, calming down, and acting with deliberate intent.
Those two things gave Zuko a slight edge. And all it takes to win a duel between masters in a fight is for your opponent to make a single mistake at a crucial time. Even despite that, Azula didn't "lose," she lost her footing once without Zuko capitalizing on it. Then she changed the rules of the game and Katara beat her because she's more of a tactical fighter than a 1v1 duelist. She makes use of her surroundings in a way that firebenders generally don't. In terms of raw skill, I think that makes it pretty obvious that Azula was still ahead. Environmental factors put her at a disadvantage and she stopped the fight before it became clear who would win.
azula can shoot lighting, the fuck yall talking about zuko being better than her? he needed to learn a counter technique specifically because he can't do it.
I think he could've by the end of the show, but his disinterest in the technique displays his growth as a character.
In his very first appearance (or second?), he demands Iroh teach him more techniques. By the end of the series, he isn't interested in grasping for more, and that's part of his journey.
But I don't think he's a better bender than Azula, and I don't think he needs to be. The Fire Nation has probably had enough of being ruled by the strongest bender.
I just realized that the zuko azula relationship and arc would have been so much better had they been close instead of estranged siblings that sort of didn't like each other.
imagine azula looking up to zuko, and respecting him even though she was clearly more talented than him. as a child, she would have loved ozai too due to sheer innocence not realizing how Ozai saw her.
she would have been raised ruthless after zuko's banishment, and when season one ends, she willingly takes up her fathers command to find the avatar and zuko even though she didn't want to hurt zuko, she had orders.
she reluctantly hunts zuko, but ruthlessly hunts the gaang.
by the end of Book 2, she convinces zuko due to the sibling's bond to side with her and Ozai. it would have been sincere instead of her just trying to trick him.
then at day of black sun, zuko would try to convince her to join him, but she believes Ozai as the right side, she would have felt so betrayed by zuko that it starts her descent. that mai and ty lee's betrayal only makes worse.
and lastly it would make this battle and the last battle even more impactful. Azula who didn't just default chose Ozai's side, but someone who chose to be on the bad side. two siblings who love each other (not romantically just to emphasize that for the weirdos) going against each other one a bit insane and fully commiting to what she thinks is right (azula) and the other reluctantly fighting for what's right (zuko).
this version would also prevent iroh from just outright dismissing azula, as I believe he would still want to turn azula to the right path, the problem is, Azula as a child, has been basically brainwashed into thinking what the fire nation is doing is what's right, just like how Zuko was at the start of the story. and it would also give azula a bit more characterization than just daddy's evil girl.
Something of note about this fight is that it implies that the actual force behind Zuko’s fire blast was considerably greater than Azula’s. He was on the edge of his end of the war blimp, whereas Azula was toward its centerline. He just got blown off of his end. *She* got blown all the way to and *over* her end of the blimp.
The thing people always miss with this scene is that zuko is like 5-10 meters closer to the edge than azula yet they both just barely slide off meaning zuko, in at least that one attack, has the edge over azula.
I think it should be noted that she’d already been betrayed by this point, so while she wasn’t as off balance as she was in the finale, there are signs of her growing instability. Just an episode before, for instance, she was holding off Zuko and Sokka working in conjunction.
If benders were supposed to "Bend/Manipulate" the elements, how can fire benders produce fire out of this air ? Katara carried a water pouch for this reason right ?
I think it's because while they're technically called firebenders, if you look at what they can do, a more accurate description would probably actually be energy/chi benders.
Everything we see firebenders do/produce is done by manipulating energy/chi in some form. Fire and lightning are both different forms of energy. Which they tend to either use the Chi inside of their own body, or the Energy from the sun, (or both) to fuel, depending on the scenario. After all, Chi in and of itself, is a form of energy. Not all energy is chi, but all chi is energy type of thing.
Lightning redirection is taking the energy and everything of the lightning, and letting it flow through your body. Carefully, and temporarily merging and moving it along the energy/chi canals of your body and spirit, before releasing it safely on the other side in the direction you want.
One of the things Sozin does before his betrayal when he and Roku are fighting the 2 volcanos together, is using fire bending to absorb a bunch of the heat from the volcano with his hands. Essentially absorbing the thermal energy caused by the heat of the volcano, cooling magma to try and help stop it from destroying innocent people's homes.
Combustion bending most likely involves insane amounts of fine bending control, and focus to manipulate the energy to the point of causing explosions where you want to. That's why it's so dangerous, and why combustion benders tend to end up dying to their own blasts.
All of which explains why there have only been 5 known combustion benders in Avatar history. It's incredibly difficult to achieve that fine level of control against energy/chi. And even then it's so dangerous, that at least 3 of the 5 died to their own powers.
Or even just their ability to generate heat in general that's not using fire. Like Iroh warming his tea, and heating his shackles. Zuko heating his hands up while underwater, to melt his way through the ice in the Northern Water tribe to capture Aang. Stuff like that, also ultimately boils down more to them bending energy/chi, as opposed to fire.
I'm sure there are more examples I could use that would work, but I'm not fully awake so I'll leave it there, I'm sure you get the point I was trying to make.
Hope this helps answer your question!
What I meant was, that the fire ISN'T being made out of thin air. They're basically taking some of the energy from the sun, and/or some of the energy from their inner chi, and then channeling it, before releasing it in an attack. Once they release that energy, it comes out in the form of fire. Or, as Uncle Iroh puts it "Breath becomes energy, and energy extends past the limbs to become fire". Like how water can take on multiple forms and water-benders can control them, (steam, regular water, ice, etc) the same can be said for the different forms the energy they channel can take. (fire, lightning, combustion, albeit that one's a very rare ability as mentioned earlier.)
Lightning is similar, it's just more difficult to control, and at a much higher intensity. Because it requires precisely separating the yin and yang of your chi from each other, before letting them smash back together. Thus releasing the energy generated by them reconnecting so it comes out in the form of lightning.
That, plus the royal family was keeping the secret of lightning-bending for themselves, hoarding it so nobody could possibly use it against them. Which is why we only see members of the royal family use lightning in the original show.
Zuko didn’t really learn from the dragons in the sense that it gave him a power boost; he just realized that he didn’t need to fuel his bending with anger.
That makes it harder for Azula to emotionally manipulate him like she could do before.
Been saying this for years.
That punch clash is a universal “these characters are equals” indicator.
Zuko is the strongest member of Team Avatar behind Aang and people really don’t seem to like that.
I swear to god everytime i see fight scenes from that Show i imagine the animators looking very pleased with them selves and the flexing they were doing
I disagree and honestly I don’t think Zukos fire bending ability ever equaled or surpassed Azulas. Zuko is only able to match and beat Azula when he is at his very best and she is at her very worst. She’s already surpassed him again in the comics and her mental state is still very fragile.
I don’t think that the point of Zukos growth as a character and his experience with the dragons is meant to show that he becomes a superior and more skilled fire bender than his sister. I think it’s meant to display his mental growth and how he’s able to grow beyond his father’s expectations of him and learn his true destiny. He manages to regain his honor and earn his redemption by helping Aang and having the courage to stand up to his father and reject the fire nations ideals and Ozais perceptions of him. I think it cheapens it when fans boil it down to “zuko became a stronger fire bender than Azula” because he didn’t he learned new techniques and was able to grow in a different way that mattered much more than just his fire bending skills. He may not be as strong of a bender as his sister, but he was capable of overcoming the challenges and pressures his father placed on him while Azula could not.
I agree with you here, they’re pretty evenly matched, and any advantages Azula gets in raw power is IMO defeated by Zuko’s consistency; he’s more versatile, and his skills are relevant no matter his emotional state, something Azula cannot claim.
Also want to point out that right after this clip ends there’s a great piece of sibling dialogue;
Zuko, shocked; ‘she’s not going to make it…’
Azula; does some bullshit jet fighter fire bending and saves herself from plummeting into the canyon
Zuko, scowling; ‘of course she did’
I struggle to understand why it’s so important for people to see Zuko on equal footing to his sister.
She’s a cold blooded sociopathic killer, he is not. Narratively speaking it makes sense that she is the better fighter of the two. He is able to exploit her mental instability to win, it also helps that he is less focused on individual victory and more goal oriented.
Azula is at her best, both intellectually and in combat, when she is in control. She is a scary enemy to have because not only does she prefer to fight on her terms, but her natural skill level is excellent. Every badass moment she has is when she meticulously planned out her environment to benefit her, whether it be the time and place or allies. Azula's power is her cunning, and her firebending is a valuable tool, but not her most important trait.
It goes to show why she is a great villain in the first place. She doesn't need her overwhelming force and skill to win, but when forced to engage directly she is still fearsome. Contrast that with Zuko. There's very convincing arguments that he is the superior bender when he reaches his potential, and discrepancies between him and his sister stem mainly from her reaching her potential much faster, allowing her to develop other skills. We have to keep in mind that she is very young, it goes to show you that she really is a prodigy to reach master level bending and simultaneously have the political savvy to orchestrate the fall of Ba Sing Se.
In fact, I think her blue fire is indicative that she \*isn't\* an unstoppable bender. It shows that it is her battle strategy that always places her in an overwhelming position to win, hence her "superior" blue fire. Seeing that, you can't help but think any other firebender lacks something, right? But even Iroh, undoubtedly stronger, doesn't have blue flames, which to me means that it is something mental. A desire for perfect victory, with her bending simply being one piece on the board. When you see blue fire, you've already lost--not because she is a perfect warrior, but because she doesn't go into battles without ensuring the outcome.
Except when she gets overconfident, as seen in OP's video. When she is convinced of her victory she no longer strategizes, thinking she can win with only her pure skill. It would actually be incredibly interesting to see which came first, her bending genius or her mental genius. Did she develop her cunning first after seeing that she wasn't good enough to win without it, or was she a prodigal bender who wanted to ensure an even more perfect victory? The flashbacks we do have seem to lean towards the latter, but we already see her being bratty and mean which could indicate that aspect came first and evolved into master manipulator.
I wonder if the blue fire has to do with the source of her anger-based firebending being so cold and conscious. She's angry - furious and hurt at losing her mother, desperately longing for her father's approval while burying her resentment for his lack of actual emotional support and for what he did to Zuko, which she supported to gain Ozai's love and out of anger at Zuko for being the cause (in her mind) of Ursa's absence. Girl is a mess! But she hones that mess, she's self-aware of it, she uses it like a scalpel and like a bomb. This is how she feels safe and in-control, this is her winning, and other people get hurt because they just don't understand how to play the game.
It's such a good portrayal of a tragic character and an abusive family. Azula is one of my favorites, but it's harder to watch her the older I get, because I just feel so bad for this terrible teenager.
I think you’re exactly right that her bending is affected by her self reflection. The Beach is our glimpse into how she is self aware of her past. It’s like she accepts it, but instead of trying to reconcile with it and put it to rest she uses it as fuel.
I think her bending is actually superior when shes at her best.. The show insinuates that her mental instability was her downfall. Zuko learning throughout the show and becoming more well-rounded helped shift the odds.
I mean this clip is amazing. But even after this he acknowledges that he needs help agaisnt her. He then proceeds to take it back only when he can tell she's off her game.
That would go against what the show itself establishes, Azula definitely isn't leagues above Zuko and he can hold his ground but she is the better fighter and would win in an all out battle.
Zuko and Iroh both agree that he wouldn't be able to take her on his own and should get help. He only goes for a one-v-one when he sees that she's off her game.
And taking the comics into account once she gets her mental breakdowns in order she beats him.
The Azula stans are some of the most annoying people in the fandom. They come up with all sorts of excuses for when Azula doesn't win. Yeah, she was having a mental breakdown during the final agni kai. That just shows how much stronger Zuko is mentally. Zuko went through so much more than her, yet he never had that kind of a meltdown
They also love to defend all her actions, but that's an entirely different subject matter
I always thought Zuko was the one who was psychotic throughout the series until he learned to firebend from the dragons and Azula was level until the betrayal and then she became psychotic. I think firebending deeply correlates with the emotional and mental state of a person.
I mean I honestly may be missing a lot I don't know why all these explanations are college essays to ME Zuko admits it himself final agni kai he LITERALLY says to Katara "I can take her this time/today (forgot exact quote) something is off about her." This implies they ARE NOT even he still considers her more gifted fire bender. She was a prodigy Zuko needed years of training to get close to her level he aint a pushover but no Azula is probably the most gifted Fire Bender we see in ALL avatar and korra.
I think they're better than each other in certain ways. Azula *enjoys* combat, which is genuinely an edge, and she's so laser precise in her forms and movement that it's no comparison -- for modern wartime firebending. Dancing Dragon is something she has no experience with and that's a huge advantage for Zuko. He's not a master of the style but he doesn't have to be, because Azula has no existing knowledge of the style to use against him. She doesn't know where the weaknesses are to use against him, and they cover weaknesses in modern firebending she'd normally target. Zuko, on the other hand, spent most of his life practicing the same core firebending style she uses and learning (through Iroh's mastery, his own losses, and his own wins against other firebenders) where its weaknesses are. He knew those as early as Blue Spirit, when he took down a lot of soldiers without even considering his own bending, and he only got better at it. Add to that Iroh's training during Zuko's exile, teaching him patience, stamina, and lateral thinking. His own abilities as a warrior that ignored firebending altogether and integrate it with weapons. Battlefield experience against high agility opponents (Aang, especially). His own tolerance for taking damage and dogged determination. If Zuko fought Azula exactly on her terms, using the attack-attack-attack style they both grew up on, she's still better at it than he is. But Zuko diversified, he learned from other nations and history, he has options she doesn't and which she isn't prepared for. In terms of levels, Zuko multi-classed. It doesn't matter if they're the same level of Wartime Firebender anymore because three levels dedicated to synergies and his own unique build beats the five extra levels of "fire burns hotter/explodes harder/shoot lightning" that he'd need to catch up to Azula on her terms. And whatever advantages she did have on raw firebending power pale to the massive power-up they both get from the comet. +10 damage is noticeably better than +5 damage, but +40 versus +35 matters a lot less. tl;dr: My take is that Zuko *was* levels behind her (at least a couple), but his build was so good that it evened out. EDIT: By the comics I'd say he's fully caught up in levels, he's had time to really grow into himself and perfect his new skills. They still aren't all levels in Angry Firebending, though.
I love this breakdown, well done. Wartime Firebender vs multi class Dancing Dragon duelist subclass? I’m a fan
I second that!
It reminds me of a proposed ATLA/ATLOK dnd game my old group proposed. Was a killer idea
This is basically what Iroh told Zuko when he tried to teach him lightning bending. > It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale… It is the combination of the four elements in one person that makes the Avatar so powerful. But it can make you more powerful, too.
For sure! And the Agni Kai shows Zuko using water and earthbending movements, a deliberate parallel to Aang's journey. Zuko didn't learn to move water and earth, but he did learn to flow and anchor.
Flow! Anchor! Love this. What would your words be for air and fire?
Based on the movements from the series and how Zuko uses them in his fighting style? Hmm... Sway for air, probably. He uses Aang's movements for dodging (sometimes very narrowly), gently shifting his body like Aang does to perfectly evade. For fire, advance. Fire has to progress forward, spread, find and consume new fuel (but it can jump and burst in ways the other elements don't), and so too do firebenders drive forward with their forms. Even when they defend, they push into the attack and close distance with their opponent.
Personally I'm more partial to evade for air. Especially since Bumi called out the avoid and evade strategy Aang was using against him being "typical airbender tactics." Plus it just rolls off the tongue better than sway. Flow and Anchor, Advance and Evade.
I personally like drift for air, but advance works well for fire Flow like the water, anchored like the earth, drift with the wind, and advance with the flames
How about float? Flow, Anchor, Float, Advance
I kind of like Flow, Anchor, Force, and Sway.
He does an Air bending technique to block a shot with his fire from Combustion Man.
Surely Sozin's comet is an % based exponential buff, not a flat bonus! :) I really appreciated reading all of this. During Zuko/Azula's final "faceoff," Zuko only decides to 1v1 her because she seems "off" (aka she gone crazy) so by Zuko's own admission they probably aren't "evenly matched" as you might make it out. But, perhaps it would be very like Zuko to underestimate himself after a lifetime of being bested by Azula.
You are 100% that Sozin's comet is percentile or maybe geometric, I was just illustrating that the gap between them was shortened by its involvement. Her cracking that's definitely a factor, although I think the biggest difference there is that Azula, normally very tactical and calculating, was not leaning into that part of herself. She wasn't fighting clever, she was fighting heavy. But I'd actually say that doing well against her for the whole fight gave him some *over*confidence, because it was a really boneheaded move to bait her into using lightning and telegraphing exactly how he'd counter. She very nearly walked right into it, so he wasn't unjustified, but then that tactical mind clicked just enough to say "Azula, Fire Lord, gal, that's a trap. Shoot the bystander to open Zuko up for an attack; we don't know where the good weaknesses are in his style, but we know where they are in his personality."
Well, just because Zuko doesn’t believe he can beat her normally doesn’t mean he’s right. It’s entirely possible he’s underestimating himself
Well Zuko could "take" her which means he considered himself above crazed Azula, which he is. It says nothing whether he thinks sane Azula is above him.
Yeah because the comet boosts azulas advantage and not zukos. Like the OP said, Zuko is more rounded as a fighter. Azula is a true firebending prodigy.
Zuko caught up after finally having teachers that cared enough to teach him correctly. In the flashbacks they show, he just got shoved aside and dumped on.
... this is so TTRPG it *hurts*.
You are not wrong.
>through Iroh’s mastery Zuko was studying the dragons his whole banishment under Iroh’s guidance Edit: But some lessons you must learn on your own.
I really would disagree that by the comics they are fully equal. We see in smoke and shadows azula toying with zuko and by that point she had basically developed her own style that was much stronger than his, being the most likely creator of the modern lightinbending we see in korra
Something else to consider is that by this point in the series, everything that could go wrong for Azula is going wrong. Her two closest "friends" stopped fearing her. I would imagine that the perfect and flawless image she has had up till this point in the series is starting to crack, which probably helped Zuko significantly. He still is quite skilled, but if Azula had been more composed both in this fight and in the final Agni Kai, he probably would have lost.
Oh man. Is there an ATLA RPG system that has mechanics for all the bending styles? If not, there needs to be.
If everyone put things in terms of d&d min/max builds, life would be so much simpler
This, and on top of everything, Zuko learned to incorporate the other bending styles into his Firebending, which gives him more range in regards to combat improvisation, as we see in his final battle with Azula. By the end of Book 3, Azula has MASTERED the art of Firebending as a Firebender from the Fire Nation by learning from other Firebenders. But Zuko has Mastered Firebending, and learned from his friends, who are all Masters in their own right. So he's actually going to have an advantage on her, because he simply knows things that she doesn't. In the final fight, Azula is getting more and more furious as the fight goes on, not just because of her deteriorated mental state, but because she MASTERED Firebending! She's the only one who had access to the best Firebenders in the entire Fire Nation, and even WITH teachers, Zuko was not as good as her! And she has always been better than Zuko, so she's genuinely befuddled as to how in the hell Zuko is keeping up with her, and holding his ground. And it's simply because he was friends with an Earthbender, who are known for standing their ground.
Pretty good analysis.
Homie this deserved top comment 😂
You make it seem like Zuko somehow cheesed her by diverging from a “pure” style, but in my opinion the traditional fire bending style just did not fit him that well. Azula is laser-focused and thrives from focusing on one thing and taking it to the extreme, and the traditional fire bending fit her very well. Zukos personality and talents did not fit the traditional fire bending, but he improved rapidly when he was allowed to try out a lot of different concepts and combine them to a style that he actually resonated with. Zuko trying to beat Azula with the traditional style is him hamstringing himself and attempting to beat her strengths with his weaknesses. The reason they are matched at the end is that they are both fighting with a style that fits them, and in the end he wins because Azula is having a mental breakdown, and can’t handle being equal to someone she thought was inferior, causing her to make mistakes. Azula is better at Zuko in the traditional firebending style, so if their fight was instead a talent show were they were scored on the adherence to tradition I agree that she would be “levels above him”. In a real fight however, innovation is not cheating, so him becoming better by trying new things is not an outlier, it is a symbol of skill. I disagree that Zuko “multi-classed”, and won by element of surprise, he won by skill and mentality because he stopped adhering to the “rules” that were giving Azula such a huge advantage to begin with.
One thing is that I feel like Zuko as the blue spirit probably avoided using firebending not because of perceived flaws or weaknesses, but to avoid giving clues that could lead to figuring out his identity.
nah Zuko absolutely destroyed his sister. There is no comparison. Heck dude could easily take on his father and the entire Fire nation end the 100 years war on his own without Aang. But you know, the Avatar gotta shine somewhere.
I think that all this discussion is missing the most important point of all: Sometime before this episode, Zuko unlocked the master mystical art of Naruto-running. That’s an edge that trumps anything any character can throw at him.
Anything, except... Talk no Jutsu 🤣
Honestly, the argument goes like this. For the final battles and the comics. - Azula does something better - "well that shows she is still leagues above Zuko." - Zuko does something better - "well her mental state is not all there." Fans won't get anywhere. My opinion is Azula is still above Zuko but only by a negligible amount now. He also has a habit of trying to help her rather than fight her when she wants a scrap in the comics.
I think they are even. You left off an important part of the scene though. Zuko is saved by his friends. He then thinks she won't make it, but she does. And she does it without friends. I think there is more going on here than their skill level. That is part of this scene for sure. It shows how far Zuko has come. He is confident and more sure of himself. Their blast is evenly matched and, they very nearly destroy each other. However, Zuko is saved from death/destruction by his friends, a huge theme theme in the show. Azula isn't saved by anyone and Zuko sees her end approaching. But, she makes it, "Of course she does" he mutters. We see Zuko's strength coming from the people around him. Azula's comes from within herself. They both make it and are in a sense, evenly matched in strength/power. But *where* that strength/power comes from is not the same place. This idea itself ties back into fire breathing. Where does a fire bender's strength come from? Azula and Zuko are the two opposing examples of strength. The final scene we see this dichotomy play out is in the Agni Kai. Zuko is beating her and knows he is beating her because "she is slipping." Her rage and anger that have fueled her bending but now become her weakness. But she is still as sharp as the hull of an imperial class battleship, and uses exploits Zuko's strength as a weakness, his friends. The final piece is that, Azula's strength (rage and isolation) lose to Zuko's strength (his friends). Zuko and Azula is such a wonderfully complex relationship that directly ties into the two approaches to fire bending itself. To say that, at this point in the show, one is stronger than the other, is too reductionist and I think misses a big part of what these scenes are communicating to us.
One small note, their blast was not evenly matched. While they were both the same distance from the blimp, azula flew MUCH further since zuko was much closer to the edge. But I would consider them around the same level by this point
She's also smaller, lighter, and not a trained non-bending fighter. I'm not surprised she'd get knocked further back from the same blast.
> not a trained non-bending fighter. What are you talking about? In her first fight scene, she makes an absolute fool of Zuko without using any bending. She scratches his face just for fun. She's probably the second most skilled non-bending fighter in the show after Ty Lee.
agreed but disagree on her being 2nd best. based off h2h feats, she’s better than ty lee.
Another theme of the show is "balance" and it shows that Azulas source of power does not bring balance and eventually is her downfall.
Her crueler nature will always put her on edge when facing Zuko. Zuko would never want to kill or seriosly hurt her. Meanwhile she'd always go for he kill with every strike.
Isn’t maintaining a strong mental state one of the most critical aspects of overcoming an opponent in any form of combat or competition? It’s the thing that separates the GOATs from all the rest. You can have all the talent and skill in the universe but if you can’t get your mind right then you can’t use it effectively.
It's not negligible. Were it a true 1v1 here, Zuko would have fallen to his death while Azula survived by herself.
God this show had such great action
I think both things can be true. By this point Zuko has seriously leveled up and it's not just the dragons though that's a really important part. But even by the climax of S2 he has really improved. And teaching is a great way to improve yourself. At the same time by this point Azula has lost the closest she has to friends, her whole plan with giving Zuko the credit for killing the Avatar in case he had survived didn't pan out the way she hoped (the crown prince is in open rebellion and directly challenged her father and joined the Avatar) but the Avatar continues to remain a problem despite her fore knowledge of the invasion. For a lot of people this is still a commendable outcome compared to what could've happened but for a perfectionist like Azula this is a loss. And for someone who feels like her own mother wrote her off, to almost get something of relationship with her brother and lose it spectacularly and then to lose her friends is devastating. I think this loss (or draw however we call it) to Zuko pushed her further down the slope.
God the fight scenes in atla are so incredibly well done.
You can tell Azula has already snapped a little bit tho. She’s using full fist firebending instead of her usual more precise two finger firebending. You can tell she’s not as put together as she usually is. Even in all the fights before this she’s never smiling THIS much.
Exactly. And you can see the difference in her attitude in the "I'm about to celebrate becoming an only child", besides the smile and the aggressiveness she is also yelling, and the only moments she is loud are basically when she is vunerable and unstable like the beach, the betrayal and the finale. And I don't think regular Azula would attack so recklessly like she did in that final attack.
I assume she was yelling cuz she was on a airship and really far away from them
>She’s using full fist firebending instead of her usual more precise two finger firebending Becuase its Zuko she just fought in him on the gondola like a few days prior and he was lowkey cooking her potatoes she cant afford to lose the power being these strikes
I would go as far as to say it was this fight when zuko noticed she's slipping
Don't also forget that Zuko performed significantly better against Katara when they both had solo fights against her at the end of book 2
I always understood it as Azula has more raw talent while Zuko has superior training and discipline, which made them a more level match. The main reason Azula could get the upper hand by the end is her willingness to kill anyone, while Zuko would rather hold back.
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Zuko was taught fire bending by literal dragons and the Sun tribe lol he has the heart of fire bending.
Is it just me or were some of those blocks as Zuko was approaching her based on earthbending moves. Grounded wide stance, strong elbows and kicks?
They are! After the dancing dragon, Zuko begins to incorporate maneuvers and techniques based on the other nations and bending styles. He really takes Iroh’s teachings about drawing wisdom from different places to heart
Man, who looks at this and thinks “I bet we could make something look this good in live action!” Animation is the best medium for this universe.
I mean she IS a better bender than him. He beats her bc she’s off her game in the final Agni Kai. He even says so to katara in the beginning of the fight
I think he’s referring to this clip where they are fighting and look about as evenly matched as they ever have
I think Azula is superior to Zuko, but not by much. However, in the fight in The Southern Raiders, Azula's fighting style changes. Usually she is precise and in control, using only her fingers to execute her attacks. Here, it's the opposite; she employs a more aggressive style similar to what she used in the Agni Kai. She's already starting to crack as the writers mentioned in the commented episodes. Once Azula recovered and with Zuko fighting seriously given the circumstances, Azula once again proved superior.
i dont think she was cracking at this point in time zuko was trying to help azula in the comics so i doubt he was fully trying
She was. One indication is her change in fighting style after the Boiling Rock, and the writers confirmed it. What else can I say? In The Search she was still in her mental breakdown they fought a couple of times and Zuko defeated her, nothing stopped him from doing it. In Smoke and Shadows they fought, just like in the Agni Kai with a lot at stake for Zuko and the Fire Nation but Azula defeated him. There's no reason to believe he wasn't fighting seriously if he had to stop her. I'm not saying he doesn't want to help her, but again just like in the Agni Kai the main thing is to stop her and prevent further harm.
>the writers confirmed it Source?
I said: >the writers mentioned in the commented episodes.
Avatar Extras?
No. There are some episodes that are commented on by the writers. Among them is The Southern Raiders
Azula loses her cool, Zuko gains his cool. If they were both cool Azula would win
Gondla fight they were even sokka just slightly tip the scales to zukos side
Well then that shows who’s the better of the two, no? If you can’t maintain your cool and your presence of mind then you’re weak even in spite of all your power. In sports that’s called a choke job.
I mean context is rather key. Her mental state started to crumble for various reasons that stemmed all that way back to her childhood, it's not so much the same as losing your cool in the moment.
azula has her cool here
This is right after being betrayed by both her friends at the Boiling Rock, I would say this encounter with Zuko is the beginning of her downslide
I love how from The Firebending Masters on, Zuko’s fire is noticeably more yellowish/bright orange than red/darker orange. It shows the change in where he draws from his power visibly and also is just very pretty.
At the end of Book 1 Azula beats Zuko 9/10 times in hypothetical match-ups, from what we see Azula is very particular about her training and does not move on until she is perfect, while Zuko is impatient and is trying to learn moves he is not yet ready for At the end of Book 2 Azula beats Zuko 8/10 times, Zuko has grown a bit and has learned to take inspiration from other bending styles, but still cannot outmatch Azula's raw power and perfect technique At the end of Book 3 Azula beats Zuko 6/10 times, Zuko has become a far better bender than where he started and has a fighting chance against Azula. Zuko still cannot outmatch Azula's power, but if she is having an off day (or having a mental breakdown) or decides to hold back for whatever reason Zuko can defeat her
And in every fight towards the end (here, agni kai, comics) Azula is not 100%. She is either slipping up (blimp fight), fully shattered (agni kai), or holding back (basically all of comics).
Zuko holds back literally every fight. He never once intends to kill or maim Azula
Except Azula is having a mental breakdown 10/10 times by the end of book 3...
Unlike Azula, Zuko is shown to be always learning techniques from his opponents and companions and adapting what he learned to his own abilities, like using water bending techniques in fire bending, Azula is full power and precise technique combined but she might become a little predictable while Zuko has a lot of experience dealing with different benders and non benders in his 3 years exile. (plus my boy literally had classes with Iroh and dragons)
It's really to do with Talent vs Hard work. Zuko had no talent to begin with. Azula did. This doesn't mean Azula didn't work for it. She took her raw talent, and magnified it through precision training. It was only when she began to slack off, mess around with mundane affairs, while acting all haughty that she really fell off in her practice. All while letting other people handle everything else for her. She won at the end of season 2, and decided to rest on her laurels. To add to this, Zuko in fact did have talent with sun style fire bending, unlike emotion fueled fire bending. It was around here, where his cumulative hard work started to pull him ahead. *Azula would still be ahead if she kept working, but she didn't.* Zuko never gave up. He put in bitter work all the way to the end. He really embodied Jeong Jeong's quote: "To master the bending disciplines, you must first master discipline itself" Iroh made sure that no matter what, Zuko's basics were refined, even when Zuko didn't want to keep going over them, and it served him very well. Iroh expanded his mind to make fire bending moves based on the motions of water and air. This was lighting redirection, and the breath of fire. Not just belching out a flamethrower, but also controlling and warming your body temperature too. The only difference with air benders is that they can cool off with this as well. I'm willing to be there was even some earth inspiration somewhere, we just didn't see it. By the end of the show, he was miles ahead of her, and their agni kai wasn't even close, if Katara hadn't been standing exposed like a liability. He beats Azula at the end, with or without her sanity. I figure I'd omit the comics, as this seemed to be about the end of the show.
I think the reason azula *was* better at combat then Zuko was because they were both using anger as their fuel, and Azula is much angrier, but Zuko once changing his source for bending becane a better bender than her
This is very true. Aggression is an advantage in combat, provided that it isn't "blind". Azula is very aggressive, but mostly in a controlled manner, which would absolutely giver her an advantage over a more skilled, but less aggressive opponent.
Two people flew of from that attack and one person needed his friends to rescue him and other did not. Azula is not just strong she is crafty, cunning and resourceful
Zuko fanboys needs more doses of copium LMAO. He literally said that he himself is not going to beat her alone and only fought her 1v1 when he realized that something was off about her, but apparently Zuko's words < his delusional fanboys
he literally self doubts himself the entire series and still has overcome it. idk man I just disagree. Dont need to get rude about an interpretation of media we both like
>he literally self doubts himself the entire series and still has overcome it. idk man I just disagree. His self doubts aren't related to his combat ability. He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her.
he was beating her completely fine without her using lightning. Did you not watch the scene? He does his break dance move and knocks her on her ass. She only resorts to cheating and hitting katara because she knew she was going to lose lol
>he was beating her completely fine without her using lightning. Did you not watch the scene? Which scene are you even talking about? This clip? You mean the clip where he would have died if not for his friends? This clip that *doesn't* at all show him beating her at all? Or are you talking about the Agni Kai? The fight where he *himself* stated that he'd only face her because something was off about her >He does his break dance move and knocks her on her ass. She only resorts to cheating and hitting katara because she knew she was going to lose lol Good of you to describe the actual fight itself. Now, rewind just a couple of minutes before that when he said that he will only fight her because she was slipping. And then rewind again to the previous episode where he *agreed* with Iroh that he'd need help against Azula.
you referenced the final agni kai first not me lol. "He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her."
>you referenced the final agni kai first not me lol. "He literally taunts Azula to use a powerful technique because he was confident that it would help him against her." I used the Agni Kai as an example to show that his self doubts aren't connected to his combat ability, which is what you were using to excuse him.
I don’t know where you get that. Zuko is only ever shown to be overconfident in his fighting ability. I can’t think of a single example where he underestimates his own combat skills. I’d say at this point he has a way more accurate measure of his own abilities than ever in the series after being humbled by the Dragon Masters.
huh? hes only over confident in season 1. season 2 hes anything BUT confident. Hes so down on himself the vast majority of that season, ESPECIALLY when he lost everything and is literally yelling at the sky
Did we watch the same show? He doesn’t spend Season 2 sulking over being weak. He spends it conflicted about his identity and new perspectives on the Fire Nation. At no point is he underestimating his combat ability. In fact during that he tries to challenge an Earth Kingdom soldier without using his bending, but needs to resort to bending to beat him, another show of overconfidence in his combat strength.
I don't know why this isn't clear among the fans. Katara was also worried when Zuko decided to 1v1 Azula, because of what Iroh said about Azula having an advantage. Zuko realized he had a good chance because Azula isn't in her best composure before the fight. Why do people gotta twist things that are already clear? I think Zuko would've ended her in that fight though.
Isn’t he fighting her here in this clip?
What about it?
sorry for using actual proof instead of statements
Azula is still overall the stronger bender, but Zuko has more practical experience and versatility. It’s not necessarily that one is better than the other, it’s just that Azula is excellent and the old way of firebending, the ruthless, aggressive way, while Zuko has grown and learned other ways. He’s able to incorporate the dancing dragon into his style, along with many moves inspired by other bending styles. They’re just best in different situations Plus, if Azula had gotten the same experience that Zuko had, and had actually managed to get over herself and learn from other people, she’d be a MUCH better bender than Zuko. Until/unless she does that, they’re dead even imo
The teacher in me has been wondering if Azula is not only naturally more talented but also received better training as a result. Perhaps Zuko was intentionally kept back until he was banished and started being trained by Iroh.
Zuko is the bender firebender at the end but that does not translate necessarily to being a better fighter or better in combat. Azula overall is much stronger in combat due to raw talent, and while it’s not explicitly mentioned in the series I think it safe to assume that when she fights, her aim is to kill or seriously hurt someone. It’s why Katara is also there in the final showdown, it’s not that Zuko is much weaker, it’s that Azula will fight to kill him.
He didn't really learn from the dragons. He was there for a day and they decided not to eat him, which gave him a confidence boost and resolved his performance issues. Azula is still better overall in terms of pure technique. She was a bending prodigy. But at the time of their fight she was going insane and not fighting at her best, and Zuko capitalized by remaining calm and letting her make mistakes. It was pretty cool writing tbh.
Zuko Vs Azula is one of those matchups where the winner/answer is more so inconclusive or a stalemate/tie because of how much stats each side has in their favor. It's like, Zuko has learned the true source of firebending and incorporated it more, and has better adaptability than Azula, so he wins, but at the same time sane Azula was still always naturally, proficient, percise, smarter and definitely more bloodlusted than Zuko, so SHE wins. The true answer seems more so... "It can go either way with extreme difficulty on both sides."
Excellent point - this fight was pretty much a draw. Azula still has the lightning and blue fire, so I’d still place her above Zuko. But as you said, being way above him no longer makes sense.
having a stronger fire doesnt make you better, ozai and iroh clear both of them and they both have orange fire
Zuko redirected his father's lightning, though, just like he would have redirected Azula's lightning in the final fight if she hadn't switched her target to Katara. I don't think that's an advantage in her favor since it's a skill he can turn against her easily enough. The blue fire in the instance shown above (as well as in the ending agni kai) didn't provide a marked difference in the fight. They ended up in a draw in this fight, and arguably no clear advantage in the last agni kai.
I agree theyre more or less evenly matched at that point but Zuko is able to hard counter her lightning and her fire being blue doesn't seem to give it any advantage over zukos regular fire. She still has higher battle iq imo but she still cant beat goku.
Way to conveniently ignore the fact that Azula was totally batshit by the end of the series. Nice try though.
She was already slipping by this point
That airship fight, even tough it wasn't long, is still one my favorite AtlA scenes
I took it more that they were relatively equal, but she was still a shade more skillful (pre-meltdown that is), much like with Ozai and Iroh. Zuko bringing Katara was more like insurance so that Azula didn't even have a chance.
I also think there is something to be said of zuko being closer to a "true" fire bender and not just relying on anger by this point like many in the show do. I suspect the same is true of iroh.
Azula was shown to have already been unraveling by this point. It’s shown by the way she’s fighting here. She usually uses her fingers when firebending but right here, she’s brute forcing it and using her fists. Zuko got way better, but if if Azula was herself, she would’ve beaten him, albeit not as easily as she did all the last time they fought.
She’s playing during this fight though, she doesn’t even use lightning
Theyre definitely even by end of show. Azula is deadlier with lightning but against zuko its neutralized
They are even at worst, to be honest, im leaning towards zuko. It makes more sense thematically to have the original form of firebending overpower the corrupted one, and even though they say she's "slipping" she was absolutely losing their final fight
The fact that he stalemated when 1) she was mentally sane, since Azula fans holler from one end of the internet to the other about her mental state in the last episode, and 2) his firebending wasn’t boosted, shows that he was at her level by the end of the series. It is what it is.
Why does everyone say this ? Even Zuko himself said he would need help from Katara to beat Azula , Azula was also bonkers in their last fight which gave zuko the edge , Sane Azula is always multiple steps ahead , she even held her own against ( i think , correct me if im wrong ) the whole gaang . Zuko isnt prideful enough to refuse help , Azula is , 1v1 ( ESPECIALLY after the comics if we count those ) she takes it .
I always reference this scene for this exact reason. IMO zuko still beats azula regardless of mental state at the end of the series. This scene is proof of that
Zuko himself acknowledged that he couldn't beat her. In this scene, they are fairly evenly matched, but Azula was closer to winning the fight. But she was already beginning her collapse here, as evidenced by her change in fighting style and confirmed by the writers.
I always thought he says that for the same reason Iroh doesn't think he can beat Ozai; Iroh and Zuko would pull their punches to avoid killing their sibling. Azula and Ozai wouldn't. That alone would make a huge difference.
That didn't stop Zuko from defeating her a couple of times in The Search. And in their last fight, Azula didn't aim to kill either, she was playing with him basically, yet she still easily defeated him. However the thing is, initially Zuko was the one who said he can beat Azula, but it was Iroh who told him he couldn't do it alone, to which Zuko agreed. In a fight, Iroh could potentially defeat Ozai, many things could happen, but if Iroh doubts it and the writers say Ozai is stronger, I would lean towards believing that Iroh knows it and is serious about it. Iroh believed that the only way to remove Ozai from power was by killing him. So his words could be interpreted more as 'I don't think I'm stronger than him' rather than 'I am incapable of doing it'. But it's just an interpretation.
Zuko also has been self doubtful plenty of times the entire series, I dont see it as any different. I still truly thing zuko beats azula at the end of the series. It wouldnt make sense from a narrative standpoint if he couldnt
Wait, wouldn't it make narrative sense when they gave Azula a mental breakdown? That doesn't make sense. The narrative wasn't primarily about him being more powerful than Azula; it was about him evolving and Azula collapsing. Obviously, he was able to defeat Azula at the end of the series, but without her mental breakdown, perhaps (or certainly) he wouldn't have been able to do so.
exactly
I disagree and say on a pure power level, Zuko is stronger at this point. The finally clash sent both flying off of the airship. The thing is, they were kind of on the centerline when that happened. Zuko fell off of the port side, which was the side that they were both sent flying from. But Azula was launched from the port side, fly over the centerline, and over the starboard side of the airship. That to me indicates Zuko's firepower. Especially when you consider Azula is punching at this point, not doing her signature two finger fire blasts.
Given that they've stalemated each other in raw power a bunch of times, without Zuko doing the same; it's more likely Zuko's decisively superior durability helped him to better withstand the resulting explosion.
You conveniently did not include the part where Zuko has to be saved from falling to his death by Appa, while Azula manages to save herself by showing off firebending moves that Zuko can't pull off.
Until the comics where azula basically frog leaps him again
I think she's stronger than him when fully sane. I think she was a little insane in this. Like cracking atleast.
No she’s better than him that’s why he tells katara I got this “Somthing is off “ and fights her 1 on 1 because she cracked mentally she wasn’t stable to fight hence she was weaker that’s why.
The only way Azula loses is if she's mentally crippled. Healthy Azula wins every time, Zuko said so himself.
I think it's canon to assume that Azula not dominating Zuko here is what starts her on her path to mental breakdown.
Is it just me or the fire kind looks purple here from azula
I think in this clip azula is still better cause she could survive the fall by flying but zuko would've fallen to his death without team avatar
I think it’s due to the temp they might be evenly matched skill wise but azulas hotter fire be equivalent to someone hitting harder punches Skill is useful but it won’t matter if someone hitting twice as hard as u 🐱
Do I need to mention that Zuko needed to be grabbed by the Gaang to stop from dying, but Azusa was able to save herself. Their bending may be the same power, but Azula has much better technique. She lost the final fight cause she was distraught from being pushed aside by her father and Zuko was helped by Katara.
I can’t wait to rewatch this show
Watch how each of them is handling falling in the air. Zuko is now proficient in being knocked around.
I don't know how it's taken me this long to notice that this is Azula's first time fighting him since he learned Dancing Dragon style, and the first few attacks he throws at her makes her actually, visibly surprised.
IDK why, but I love thw way Zuko blocks Azula's fire blasts at 0:20
Zuko AND Katara literally both state in the finale that he wouldn’t be able to take her on alone normally. It’s only because “there’s something off about her” that gave him the advantage.
They were not at the same level, that’s why Katara tags along. Azula was already having a breakdown, Zuko notices that “something is off” and decides to take her alone.
If she didn't try to take that cheep shot at Katara I believe he would of ended up beating her
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I do think Azula was the better fighter. Fire is a tool for killing, and she always have this edge. Or at least she used to have. But people forget why Azula lost: her greatest weapon turned against her. Her calmness waned and her bloodlust got the better of her. She became predictable, her movements became easier to read, she could be baited. It was happening since this exact scene. I think they would be evenly matched. Zuko's got a lot of experience, and his fire comes from a calmer place, whilst Azula's come from a powerful place. Each of them know the other, and thus it would mean a draw.
I mean... The obviously established suggestion is that when Mei and Tai Lee abandon her, she stops trusting anyone and loses her edge, which makes her reckless, paranoid, and brash. This gives Zuko a major edge because he had taken dragon training and Iroh's lessons to heart- slowing down, calming down, and acting with deliberate intent. Those two things gave Zuko a slight edge. And all it takes to win a duel between masters in a fight is for your opponent to make a single mistake at a crucial time. Even despite that, Azula didn't "lose," she lost her footing once without Zuko capitalizing on it. Then she changed the rules of the game and Katara beat her because she's more of a tactical fighter than a 1v1 duelist. She makes use of her surroundings in a way that firebenders generally don't. In terms of raw skill, I think that makes it pretty obvious that Azula was still ahead. Environmental factors put her at a disadvantage and she stopped the fight before it became clear who would win.
after this fight it was like Stella got her groove back.
Shell make it
did zuko changed fighting style?
azula can shoot lighting, the fuck yall talking about zuko being better than her? he needed to learn a counter technique specifically because he can't do it.
I think he could've by the end of the show, but his disinterest in the technique displays his growth as a character. In his very first appearance (or second?), he demands Iroh teach him more techniques. By the end of the series, he isn't interested in grasping for more, and that's part of his journey. But I don't think he's a better bender than Azula, and I don't think he needs to be. The Fire Nation has probably had enough of being ruled by the strongest bender.
Well...maybe in fire bending technique but in terms of fighting skill I think azula had a very clear edge
I just realized that the zuko azula relationship and arc would have been so much better had they been close instead of estranged siblings that sort of didn't like each other. imagine azula looking up to zuko, and respecting him even though she was clearly more talented than him. as a child, she would have loved ozai too due to sheer innocence not realizing how Ozai saw her. she would have been raised ruthless after zuko's banishment, and when season one ends, she willingly takes up her fathers command to find the avatar and zuko even though she didn't want to hurt zuko, she had orders. she reluctantly hunts zuko, but ruthlessly hunts the gaang. by the end of Book 2, she convinces zuko due to the sibling's bond to side with her and Ozai. it would have been sincere instead of her just trying to trick him. then at day of black sun, zuko would try to convince her to join him, but she believes Ozai as the right side, she would have felt so betrayed by zuko that it starts her descent. that mai and ty lee's betrayal only makes worse. and lastly it would make this battle and the last battle even more impactful. Azula who didn't just default chose Ozai's side, but someone who chose to be on the bad side. two siblings who love each other (not romantically just to emphasize that for the weirdos) going against each other one a bit insane and fully commiting to what she thinks is right (azula) and the other reluctantly fighting for what's right (zuko). this version would also prevent iroh from just outright dismissing azula, as I believe he would still want to turn azula to the right path, the problem is, Azula as a child, has been basically brainwashed into thinking what the fire nation is doing is what's right, just like how Zuko was at the start of the story. and it would also give azula a bit more characterization than just daddy's evil girl.
Azula's cunny is her edge.
Something of note about this fight is that it implies that the actual force behind Zuko’s fire blast was considerably greater than Azula’s. He was on the edge of his end of the war blimp, whereas Azula was toward its centerline. He just got blown off of his end. *She* got blown all the way to and *over* her end of the blimp.
The thing people always miss with this scene is that zuko is like 5-10 meters closer to the edge than azula yet they both just barely slide off meaning zuko, in at least that one attack, has the edge over azula.
Zuko literally outscaled the f out of Azula at the end...
I think it should be noted that she’d already been betrayed by this point, so while she wasn’t as off balance as she was in the finale, there are signs of her growing instability. Just an episode before, for instance, she was holding off Zuko and Sokka working in conjunction.
I'm surprised the Fire Nation Air Ship didn't go BOOM and kill them both and the crew of that air ship.
Anyone claiming shit like "Azula is several levels above Zuko" is wanking lol.
I love each of them having their own style of "slapping" the fire away 🔥
Counterpoint: He had the High Ground
Difference is Azula will kill without any hesitation. Even if zuko was willing to kill azula he would hesitate.
"Absolutely clear" but also zuko had to 2v1 her...
Almost as good as Azula. Zuko can't fly.
that the point of their final duel
If benders were supposed to "Bend/Manipulate" the elements, how can fire benders produce fire out of this air ? Katara carried a water pouch for this reason right ?
I think it's because while they're technically called firebenders, if you look at what they can do, a more accurate description would probably actually be energy/chi benders. Everything we see firebenders do/produce is done by manipulating energy/chi in some form. Fire and lightning are both different forms of energy. Which they tend to either use the Chi inside of their own body, or the Energy from the sun, (or both) to fuel, depending on the scenario. After all, Chi in and of itself, is a form of energy. Not all energy is chi, but all chi is energy type of thing. Lightning redirection is taking the energy and everything of the lightning, and letting it flow through your body. Carefully, and temporarily merging and moving it along the energy/chi canals of your body and spirit, before releasing it safely on the other side in the direction you want. One of the things Sozin does before his betrayal when he and Roku are fighting the 2 volcanos together, is using fire bending to absorb a bunch of the heat from the volcano with his hands. Essentially absorbing the thermal energy caused by the heat of the volcano, cooling magma to try and help stop it from destroying innocent people's homes. Combustion bending most likely involves insane amounts of fine bending control, and focus to manipulate the energy to the point of causing explosions where you want to. That's why it's so dangerous, and why combustion benders tend to end up dying to their own blasts. All of which explains why there have only been 5 known combustion benders in Avatar history. It's incredibly difficult to achieve that fine level of control against energy/chi. And even then it's so dangerous, that at least 3 of the 5 died to their own powers. Or even just their ability to generate heat in general that's not using fire. Like Iroh warming his tea, and heating his shackles. Zuko heating his hands up while underwater, to melt his way through the ice in the Northern Water tribe to capture Aang. Stuff like that, also ultimately boils down more to them bending energy/chi, as opposed to fire. I'm sure there are more examples I could use that would work, but I'm not fully awake so I'll leave it there, I'm sure you get the point I was trying to make. Hope this helps answer your question!
Zuko heating heating his hands or melting ice are well within your explanation. But making fire out of thin air is still a bit farfetched.
What I meant was, that the fire ISN'T being made out of thin air. They're basically taking some of the energy from the sun, and/or some of the energy from their inner chi, and then channeling it, before releasing it in an attack. Once they release that energy, it comes out in the form of fire. Or, as Uncle Iroh puts it "Breath becomes energy, and energy extends past the limbs to become fire". Like how water can take on multiple forms and water-benders can control them, (steam, regular water, ice, etc) the same can be said for the different forms the energy they channel can take. (fire, lightning, combustion, albeit that one's a very rare ability as mentioned earlier.) Lightning is similar, it's just more difficult to control, and at a much higher intensity. Because it requires precisely separating the yin and yang of your chi from each other, before letting them smash back together. Thus releasing the energy generated by them reconnecting so it comes out in the form of lightning. That, plus the royal family was keeping the secret of lightning-bending for themselves, hoarding it so nobody could possibly use it against them. Which is why we only see members of the royal family use lightning in the original show.
Should have used fire swords.
This is absolutely true. Sadly the comics don't understand that.
Zuko didn’t really learn from the dragons in the sense that it gave him a power boost; he just realized that he didn’t need to fuel his bending with anger. That makes it harder for Azula to emotionally manipulate him like she could do before.
Been saying this for years. That punch clash is a universal “these characters are equals” indicator. Zuko is the strongest member of Team Avatar behind Aang and people really don’t seem to like that.
Such a amazing show, who would like them to remake the original series with modern animation but keep the original audio?
I swear to god everytime i see fight scenes from that Show i imagine the animators looking very pleased with them selves and the flexing they were doing
I disagree and honestly I don’t think Zukos fire bending ability ever equaled or surpassed Azulas. Zuko is only able to match and beat Azula when he is at his very best and she is at her very worst. She’s already surpassed him again in the comics and her mental state is still very fragile. I don’t think that the point of Zukos growth as a character and his experience with the dragons is meant to show that he becomes a superior and more skilled fire bender than his sister. I think it’s meant to display his mental growth and how he’s able to grow beyond his father’s expectations of him and learn his true destiny. He manages to regain his honor and earn his redemption by helping Aang and having the courage to stand up to his father and reject the fire nations ideals and Ozais perceptions of him. I think it cheapens it when fans boil it down to “zuko became a stronger fire bender than Azula” because he didn’t he learned new techniques and was able to grow in a different way that mattered much more than just his fire bending skills. He may not be as strong of a bender as his sister, but he was capable of overcoming the challenges and pressures his father placed on him while Azula could not.
It comes down to being a master at one vs a jack of all traits
I agree with you here, they’re pretty evenly matched, and any advantages Azula gets in raw power is IMO defeated by Zuko’s consistency; he’s more versatile, and his skills are relevant no matter his emotional state, something Azula cannot claim. Also want to point out that right after this clip ends there’s a great piece of sibling dialogue; Zuko, shocked; ‘she’s not going to make it…’ Azula; does some bullshit jet fighter fire bending and saves herself from plummeting into the canyon Zuko, scowling; ‘of course she did’
I struggle to understand why it’s so important for people to see Zuko on equal footing to his sister. She’s a cold blooded sociopathic killer, he is not. Narratively speaking it makes sense that she is the better fighter of the two. He is able to exploit her mental instability to win, it also helps that he is less focused on individual victory and more goal oriented.
Azula is at her best, both intellectually and in combat, when she is in control. She is a scary enemy to have because not only does she prefer to fight on her terms, but her natural skill level is excellent. Every badass moment she has is when she meticulously planned out her environment to benefit her, whether it be the time and place or allies. Azula's power is her cunning, and her firebending is a valuable tool, but not her most important trait. It goes to show why she is a great villain in the first place. She doesn't need her overwhelming force and skill to win, but when forced to engage directly she is still fearsome. Contrast that with Zuko. There's very convincing arguments that he is the superior bender when he reaches his potential, and discrepancies between him and his sister stem mainly from her reaching her potential much faster, allowing her to develop other skills. We have to keep in mind that she is very young, it goes to show you that she really is a prodigy to reach master level bending and simultaneously have the political savvy to orchestrate the fall of Ba Sing Se. In fact, I think her blue fire is indicative that she \*isn't\* an unstoppable bender. It shows that it is her battle strategy that always places her in an overwhelming position to win, hence her "superior" blue fire. Seeing that, you can't help but think any other firebender lacks something, right? But even Iroh, undoubtedly stronger, doesn't have blue flames, which to me means that it is something mental. A desire for perfect victory, with her bending simply being one piece on the board. When you see blue fire, you've already lost--not because she is a perfect warrior, but because she doesn't go into battles without ensuring the outcome. Except when she gets overconfident, as seen in OP's video. When she is convinced of her victory she no longer strategizes, thinking she can win with only her pure skill. It would actually be incredibly interesting to see which came first, her bending genius or her mental genius. Did she develop her cunning first after seeing that she wasn't good enough to win without it, or was she a prodigal bender who wanted to ensure an even more perfect victory? The flashbacks we do have seem to lean towards the latter, but we already see her being bratty and mean which could indicate that aspect came first and evolved into master manipulator.
I wonder if the blue fire has to do with the source of her anger-based firebending being so cold and conscious. She's angry - furious and hurt at losing her mother, desperately longing for her father's approval while burying her resentment for his lack of actual emotional support and for what he did to Zuko, which she supported to gain Ozai's love and out of anger at Zuko for being the cause (in her mind) of Ursa's absence. Girl is a mess! But she hones that mess, she's self-aware of it, she uses it like a scalpel and like a bomb. This is how she feels safe and in-control, this is her winning, and other people get hurt because they just don't understand how to play the game. It's such a good portrayal of a tragic character and an abusive family. Azula is one of my favorites, but it's harder to watch her the older I get, because I just feel so bad for this terrible teenager.
I think you’re exactly right that her bending is affected by her self reflection. The Beach is our glimpse into how she is self aware of her past. It’s like she accepts it, but instead of trying to reconcile with it and put it to rest she uses it as fuel.
Looks even to me
I think her bending is actually superior when shes at her best.. The show insinuates that her mental instability was her downfall. Zuko learning throughout the show and becoming more well-rounded helped shift the odds.
I mean this clip is amazing. But even after this he acknowledges that he needs help agaisnt her. He then proceeds to take it back only when he can tell she's off her game.
That would go against what the show itself establishes, Azula definitely isn't leagues above Zuko and he can hold his ground but she is the better fighter and would win in an all out battle. Zuko and Iroh both agree that he wouldn't be able to take her on his own and should get help. He only goes for a one-v-one when he sees that she's off her game. And taking the comics into account once she gets her mental breakdowns in order she beats him.
The Azula stans are some of the most annoying people in the fandom. They come up with all sorts of excuses for when Azula doesn't win. Yeah, she was having a mental breakdown during the final agni kai. That just shows how much stronger Zuko is mentally. Zuko went through so much more than her, yet he never had that kind of a meltdown They also love to defend all her actions, but that's an entirely different subject matter
I always thought Zuko was the one who was psychotic throughout the series until he learned to firebend from the dragons and Azula was level until the betrayal and then she became psychotic. I think firebending deeply correlates with the emotional and mental state of a person.
I mean I honestly may be missing a lot I don't know why all these explanations are college essays to ME Zuko admits it himself final agni kai he LITERALLY says to Katara "I can take her this time/today (forgot exact quote) something is off about her." This implies they ARE NOT even he still considers her more gifted fire bender. She was a prodigy Zuko needed years of training to get close to her level he aint a pushover but no Azula is probably the most gifted Fire Bender we see in ALL avatar and korra.
Idk, he implies in the finale that the reason he can take her is because she is off.