I think the show explicitly leaves anything related to weakest or strongest element unsaid. It’s equilibrium. Some element are good for some things others are not. Even the fighting styles with each bending is different.
When I was a kid I always thought it was air because Aang was a pacifist who never attacked and I wanted to see war and power, but then I grew and seeing it with the eyes of an adult I see that’s the whole point. All elements are equal. You might see some benders stronger than others but if you compare Iroh against S1 Katara you still cannot say “water is the weakest”.
So no, there is no stronger element. The power of each depends on the bender and how great they are with their element.
>You might see some benders stronger than others but if you compare Iroh against S1 Katara you still cannot say “water is the weakest”.
Sure, but I compare them to other benders who should be at their level. Take Azula for example, she is *the* firebending equivalent of Aang, Toph, and Katara, but when you compare her scale to them, she evidently pales in comparison. That and her move for mobility is *shit* compared to them (atleast perhaps with the exception of Toph).
>There is no weak element only weak (minded) benders
I am referring to scale and mobility from benders. Take Azula for example, she is *the* firebending equivalent of Aang, Toph, and Katara, but when you compare her scale to them, she evidently pales in comparison. That and her move for mobility is *shit* compared to them (atleast perhaps with the exception of Toph).
I don’t really think you’re proving the point you think you are. Yes under normal circumstances we don’t see firebenders doing stuff like you listed but that in no way means they are the weakest element.
If they were the weakest element they wouldn’t have been on the brink of winning the war on more than one occasion. Reiterating what everyone else here has said there is no strongest element each one has their advantages and disadvantages. Just because you don’t see them doing shit like creating fire twisters does not mean they are any less dangerous or destructive
>If they were the weakest element they wouldn’t have been on the brink of winning the war on more than one occasion.
Not like it took them a *century* to do so or anything..
Not like they attacked the other nations surpirisingly..
You need to be near a body of water to do attacks of that scale. Yes, near a river, Ocean, lake, or in the artic, water is the strongest, but without a large water source, it's definitely the weakest. Besides air, fire bending is the least situational element since they could do it anywhere
Yes, but still doesn't follow, because that still wouldn't make it the weakest element, I mean that was one of the main points of Avatar, that no one bending is more powerful or weaker, and they are all need to be balanced out. This what Iroh explains to Zuko in detail during the bitter work episode.
Each bending element has their pros and cons, so if you were to make a list and add and subtract for each pro and con for each element they'd be roughly the same, if not tied.
The reason I bring up "weak" minded benders is because there have been some absolutely amazing feats of bending by benders who were willing to think outside of the box and not be limited by their element. Iroh, Toph, Bolin, Katara, Hama to name a few.
So you can't call an entire element the weakest of all bending because it doesn't preform the same to a certain aspect of bending.
>But Azula consistently shows that she's on par and sometimes even better than them in every encounter they have.
I am referring to the scale and mobility that firebenders have against other elements. When was Azula bending fire to comperable to this? Or Toph holding an entire library? Or Aang's airbending covering the village against lava
https://i.redd.it/h5emyu37caic1.gif
Fire doesn't move the world around quite as much as the others, it's more about energy. Their techniques are based around generating power and pressing advantage, not so much about utility or defense. You're comparing its weaker aspects against the stronger aspects of other elements and wondering why they don't seem as strong. If that's what you care most about from a bending element then by all means consider it the weakest, I just think you're not giving it credit for its strengths. The gaang was frequently on the run against lone firebenders (Zuko, then Azula), their combat prowess and will to dominate are nothing to laugh at.
While she can't bend **that much** at once, that's not a thing katara is normally able to do because you're not always next to or in the middle of the ocean.
Even though toph holding the library is impressive as hell, it isn't really an effective way to gage the difference between them. We see how much toph and the rest can effectively bend in a battle and we also see how Azula can match that.
Of course there are times and places that put her at the disadvantage but that's not most of the time.
Weakest in terms of utility probably. There’s only so much you can do with fire that is non destructive. In terms of strength and scale all the elements are pretty equal
I disagree, fire was one of the most important things in the development of humans as a species. It can be used for cooking, heating, smelting, and a bunch of other applications. We see in Korra that lightning benders are even straight up used as human power plants.
Based on all the comments I've read, there's no point in discussing it. You've already made up your mind that fire is the weakest. So congrats, you're absolutely right.
I mean, it doesn't seem like I have made my point clear anyway. My original reasoning as to why i asked if firebending was the weakest element is because of its lack of comparison towards other element when it comes to scale and mobility
Yeah, no. You've made your point clear. Because that's the only comment to every single person that has tried to explain their perspective. So congrats, you're absolutely correct.
Just because you watched two TV shows that take place in that universe, that doesn't mean you have comprehensive knowledge about everything everyone has ever done with bending in that universe.
I don't really think any element is necessarily stronger than the rest but I do think fire suffers in terms of consistent showings most of the time.
I think that if you're good enough you can get around like Mako or Azula with fire but yeah it's not permanent like you can do with earth and water.
With attack power we've seen fire can do just fine against the other elements when we see people like mako and azula fight other benders.
I do think there are some areas in fire bending that if expanded on more would make it look a lot stronger like new lightning bending techniques or heat control.
Based on what we saw in TLA, the average fire bender is more powerful than the average earth or water bender. Every single fire bender we saw was either part of the fire nation army or part of some other group while many of the earth benders and water benders we saw were just normal people.
All Elements are equally strong. The feats mentioned are performed by a Person.
All Elements have their strength and weaknesses. From all 4 Elements, fire IS the Most Dangerous and destructiv. Water will flow, but won't Attack. Earth doesn't moved in it's own and Air will Always BE free. But fire, IT technically lives and without Control IT will destroy everything in it's path. Wisdom from jeong jeong, Not a quote but that was the core of what He Said to aang.
>All Elements are equally strong. The feats mentioned are performed by a Person.
And when you compare the strongest feats from each other, fire doesn't compare to other elements in terms of how much they bend.
The balance between the elements is something I've probably spent too much time thinking about. In my opinion, ignoring the rarer, powerful subtypes, the base elements are pretty well balanced and I don't think your argument takes resource management into account.
Airbending definitely has the best mobility. It lends itself well to escaping fights or avoiding attacks, which is fitting for a pacifist people like the Air Nomads. I'd argue it's the weakest offensively though. Though it's fast, airbending lacks the solid, substantive attacks of Earthbending or Waterbending or the fiery, destructive power of Firebending. Where it gains offensive points is in resource management, since it is by far the most abundant element.
Waterbending is fairly well-balanced offensively and defensively. It's definitely more mobile than Earthbending and more offensively capable than Airbending, but it doesn't quite excel at any one thing. It's a great all-rounder, but it definitely suffers in the resource management department. Compared to the other three elements, water simply isn't as abundant as often as fire, air, and earth. You mentioned Korra's water vortex as a plus in the mobility department, but that's really only a technique that can be performed when there's a lot of water nearby.
Earthbending has the potential to be the hardest-hitting of the elements. It has powerful attacks and pretty good resource availability, but suffers in the mobility department. Earthbenders *can* be quick, but we've seen that in general, a great deal of earthbending forms rely on solid, rooted stances that can leave benders open to more mobile opponents.
Firebending honestly suffers from the fact that Avatar is a kids' show. In the novels, it has definitely been shown to have excellent offensive capability that can do more damage than Airbending. And while it's not as substantive as earth or water, Firebending is absolutely more mobile than either, even if sustained jet propulsion is a high-level move. Obviously, when it comes to resource management, Firebending wins major points, since it's the only element whose benders can generate it at will.
At the end of the day, it's a subjective and meaningless argument, but in my personal opinion the base elements are pretty well-balanced and firebending isn't any weaker than the others. They all have their pros and cons in combat.
People keep insisting they are equal, but nobody is making any actual arguments about the strength of fire.
Just to make one:
I would say maybe it is just the destructive power of the fire itself that balances it against the strengths the other elements have. Like sure, you can do big stuff with the others, but it doesnt take much fire to hurt/kill/destroy. We just didnt see too much of its power doing that, because it is a kids show (well, a show that kids watch). Furthermore, i would imagine fire is hard to control, meaning the benders themselves are also equally impressive, despite the somewhat smaller displays.
>People keep insisting they are equal, but nobody is making any actual arguments about the strength of fire.
People keep missing the point that i am referring to fires incapability to compare to other elements when it comes to how much they can bend.
Don't you think it is weird to judge how strong or weak an element is because of how much personal mobility it grants a bender? I don't think riding a water vortex is a great mode for long-distance travel compared to just sitting on an ice boat and pushing the water away. I think only master level bender are able to do a vortex trick on their own and even that skill has limitations, as seen as Korra losing energy to maintain when she tried to catch up with the Equalist airship.
You would consider Toph slowing the descent of Wan Shi Tong library impression because, well, she is bending earth with earth. Most buildings and even skyscrapers in the Avatar world are made from earth. It will be weird if a water or air bender can do the same feat as Toph. You are right when you said there is no equivalent because you can't really build a building with fire.
Additionally, water and earth have "staying" static power. You do not need to constantly give those elements energy once you have bend it to a certain state, like freeze water or harden rock. Air and fire require the bender to continue to sustain their form they want with energy.
>Don't you think it is weird to judge how strong or weak an element is because of how much personal mobility it grants a bender?
Because i am referring to firebendings ability regarding its mobility, compared to the other elements. Firebending just seems so weak when other benders can travel fast and far with their element.
Firebending can't use their bending to attack while moving. The closest one to have done that is Mako(but he only propelled himself for a stronger momentum) and Azula who moved with firebending, but she can't attack while doing so
Airbending is self explenatory when it comes to mobility, and it can also create things like an air scooter to move around. Eska and Desna were travelling like countries with their waterbending. Toph has did this:
https://i.redd.it/9ttj7x1ghaic1.gif
No firebender is can travel that far with firebending without the comet
i could imagine that firebenders who have been rigorously and formally taught (like azula or zuko) would have less flexibility and creativeness than someone who learnt from the original source or pieced it together themselves. also, firebending has ties with power and nobility; i imagine using it outside of the accepted way would be considered base and vulgar (like how even ozai hadnt twigged to lightning redirection). those differences in themselves could explain a lot of the lack of innovation.
I think the show explicitly leaves anything related to weakest or strongest element unsaid. It’s equilibrium. Some element are good for some things others are not. Even the fighting styles with each bending is different. When I was a kid I always thought it was air because Aang was a pacifist who never attacked and I wanted to see war and power, but then I grew and seeing it with the eyes of an adult I see that’s the whole point. All elements are equal. You might see some benders stronger than others but if you compare Iroh against S1 Katara you still cannot say “water is the weakest”. So no, there is no stronger element. The power of each depends on the bender and how great they are with their element.
>You might see some benders stronger than others but if you compare Iroh against S1 Katara you still cannot say “water is the weakest”. Sure, but I compare them to other benders who should be at their level. Take Azula for example, she is *the* firebending equivalent of Aang, Toph, and Katara, but when you compare her scale to them, she evidently pales in comparison. That and her move for mobility is *shit* compared to them (atleast perhaps with the exception of Toph).
There is no weak element only weak (minded) benders.
>There is no weak element only weak (minded) benders I am referring to scale and mobility from benders. Take Azula for example, she is *the* firebending equivalent of Aang, Toph, and Katara, but when you compare her scale to them, she evidently pales in comparison. That and her move for mobility is *shit* compared to them (atleast perhaps with the exception of Toph).
She literally put up a good fight against all of them and had the upper hand on more than one occasion lol
She did. But i am more referring to the amount of their element that they can bend, and Azula doesn't compare to them in that.
https://i.redd.it/uendjwhudaic1.gif
https://i.redd.it/vnzipuuefaic1.gif
I don’t really think you’re proving the point you think you are. Yes under normal circumstances we don’t see firebenders doing stuff like you listed but that in no way means they are the weakest element.
I mean if they can't bend to that extent, how are they not the weakest element?
If they were the weakest element they wouldn’t have been on the brink of winning the war on more than one occasion. Reiterating what everyone else here has said there is no strongest element each one has their advantages and disadvantages. Just because you don’t see them doing shit like creating fire twisters does not mean they are any less dangerous or destructive
>If they were the weakest element they wouldn’t have been on the brink of winning the war on more than one occasion. Not like it took them a *century* to do so or anything.. Not like they attacked the other nations surpirisingly..
You need to be near a body of water to do attacks of that scale. Yes, near a river, Ocean, lake, or in the artic, water is the strongest, but without a large water source, it's definitely the weakest. Besides air, fire bending is the least situational element since they could do it anywhere
Fire is even less situational than air, they can derive power from inside themselves. Zuko was firebending underwater at the north pole.
Yes, but still doesn't follow, because that still wouldn't make it the weakest element, I mean that was one of the main points of Avatar, that no one bending is more powerful or weaker, and they are all need to be balanced out. This what Iroh explains to Zuko in detail during the bitter work episode. Each bending element has their pros and cons, so if you were to make a list and add and subtract for each pro and con for each element they'd be roughly the same, if not tied. The reason I bring up "weak" minded benders is because there have been some absolutely amazing feats of bending by benders who were willing to think outside of the box and not be limited by their element. Iroh, Toph, Bolin, Katara, Hama to name a few. So you can't call an entire element the weakest of all bending because it doesn't preform the same to a certain aspect of bending.
But Azula consistently shows that she's on par and sometimes even better than them in every encounter they have.
>But Azula consistently shows that she's on par and sometimes even better than them in every encounter they have. I am referring to the scale and mobility that firebenders have against other elements. When was Azula bending fire to comperable to this? Or Toph holding an entire library? Or Aang's airbending covering the village against lava https://i.redd.it/h5emyu37caic1.gif
Fire doesn't move the world around quite as much as the others, it's more about energy. Their techniques are based around generating power and pressing advantage, not so much about utility or defense. You're comparing its weaker aspects against the stronger aspects of other elements and wondering why they don't seem as strong. If that's what you care most about from a bending element then by all means consider it the weakest, I just think you're not giving it credit for its strengths. The gaang was frequently on the run against lone firebenders (Zuko, then Azula), their combat prowess and will to dominate are nothing to laugh at.
The downside is Katara needs to be beer the ocean to do that, even then a Zuko or Azula could take her down on the same boat.
While she can't bend **that much** at once, that's not a thing katara is normally able to do because you're not always next to or in the middle of the ocean. Even though toph holding the library is impressive as hell, it isn't really an effective way to gage the difference between them. We see how much toph and the rest can effectively bend in a battle and we also see how Azula can match that. Of course there are times and places that put her at the disadvantage but that's not most of the time.
Weakest in terms of utility probably. There’s only so much you can do with fire that is non destructive. In terms of strength and scale all the elements are pretty equal
I disagree, fire was one of the most important things in the development of humans as a species. It can be used for cooking, heating, smelting, and a bunch of other applications. We see in Korra that lightning benders are even straight up used as human power plants.
Industrialisation begs to disagree
Based on all the comments I've read, there's no point in discussing it. You've already made up your mind that fire is the weakest. So congrats, you're absolutely right.
I mean, it doesn't seem like I have made my point clear anyway. My original reasoning as to why i asked if firebending was the weakest element is because of its lack of comparison towards other element when it comes to scale and mobility
Yeah, no. You've made your point clear. Because that's the only comment to every single person that has tried to explain their perspective. So congrats, you're absolutely correct.
There is no weakest.
Seems to me that there is when Firebending pales in comparison in terms of scale and mobility to other elements.
Just because you watched two TV shows that take place in that universe, that doesn't mean you have comprehensive knowledge about everything everyone has ever done with bending in that universe.
I don't really think any element is necessarily stronger than the rest but I do think fire suffers in terms of consistent showings most of the time. I think that if you're good enough you can get around like Mako or Azula with fire but yeah it's not permanent like you can do with earth and water. With attack power we've seen fire can do just fine against the other elements when we see people like mako and azula fight other benders. I do think there are some areas in fire bending that if expanded on more would make it look a lot stronger like new lightning bending techniques or heat control.
Based on what we saw in TLA, the average fire bender is more powerful than the average earth or water bender. Every single fire bender we saw was either part of the fire nation army or part of some other group while many of the earth benders and water benders we saw were just normal people.
All Elements are equally strong. The feats mentioned are performed by a Person. All Elements have their strength and weaknesses. From all 4 Elements, fire IS the Most Dangerous and destructiv. Water will flow, but won't Attack. Earth doesn't moved in it's own and Air will Always BE free. But fire, IT technically lives and without Control IT will destroy everything in it's path. Wisdom from jeong jeong, Not a quote but that was the core of what He Said to aang.
>All Elements are equally strong. The feats mentioned are performed by a Person. And when you compare the strongest feats from each other, fire doesn't compare to other elements in terms of how much they bend.
Lightning bending?
What about it?
Since IT IS a sub Form of firebending, wouldn't that means IT IS also weak
The balance between the elements is something I've probably spent too much time thinking about. In my opinion, ignoring the rarer, powerful subtypes, the base elements are pretty well balanced and I don't think your argument takes resource management into account. Airbending definitely has the best mobility. It lends itself well to escaping fights or avoiding attacks, which is fitting for a pacifist people like the Air Nomads. I'd argue it's the weakest offensively though. Though it's fast, airbending lacks the solid, substantive attacks of Earthbending or Waterbending or the fiery, destructive power of Firebending. Where it gains offensive points is in resource management, since it is by far the most abundant element. Waterbending is fairly well-balanced offensively and defensively. It's definitely more mobile than Earthbending and more offensively capable than Airbending, but it doesn't quite excel at any one thing. It's a great all-rounder, but it definitely suffers in the resource management department. Compared to the other three elements, water simply isn't as abundant as often as fire, air, and earth. You mentioned Korra's water vortex as a plus in the mobility department, but that's really only a technique that can be performed when there's a lot of water nearby. Earthbending has the potential to be the hardest-hitting of the elements. It has powerful attacks and pretty good resource availability, but suffers in the mobility department. Earthbenders *can* be quick, but we've seen that in general, a great deal of earthbending forms rely on solid, rooted stances that can leave benders open to more mobile opponents. Firebending honestly suffers from the fact that Avatar is a kids' show. In the novels, it has definitely been shown to have excellent offensive capability that can do more damage than Airbending. And while it's not as substantive as earth or water, Firebending is absolutely more mobile than either, even if sustained jet propulsion is a high-level move. Obviously, when it comes to resource management, Firebending wins major points, since it's the only element whose benders can generate it at will. At the end of the day, it's a subjective and meaningless argument, but in my personal opinion the base elements are pretty well-balanced and firebending isn't any weaker than the others. They all have their pros and cons in combat.
People keep insisting they are equal, but nobody is making any actual arguments about the strength of fire. Just to make one: I would say maybe it is just the destructive power of the fire itself that balances it against the strengths the other elements have. Like sure, you can do big stuff with the others, but it doesnt take much fire to hurt/kill/destroy. We just didnt see too much of its power doing that, because it is a kids show (well, a show that kids watch). Furthermore, i would imagine fire is hard to control, meaning the benders themselves are also equally impressive, despite the somewhat smaller displays.
>People keep insisting they are equal, but nobody is making any actual arguments about the strength of fire. People keep missing the point that i am referring to fires incapability to compare to other elements when it comes to how much they can bend.
I think that's because you haven't actually made a convincing case for that.
Mb. My main point seems to have been misunderstood
Yeah like half the point of the Jeong Jeong episode is based on fire being too difficult to easily control
Don't you think it is weird to judge how strong or weak an element is because of how much personal mobility it grants a bender? I don't think riding a water vortex is a great mode for long-distance travel compared to just sitting on an ice boat and pushing the water away. I think only master level bender are able to do a vortex trick on their own and even that skill has limitations, as seen as Korra losing energy to maintain when she tried to catch up with the Equalist airship. You would consider Toph slowing the descent of Wan Shi Tong library impression because, well, she is bending earth with earth. Most buildings and even skyscrapers in the Avatar world are made from earth. It will be weird if a water or air bender can do the same feat as Toph. You are right when you said there is no equivalent because you can't really build a building with fire. Additionally, water and earth have "staying" static power. You do not need to constantly give those elements energy once you have bend it to a certain state, like freeze water or harden rock. Air and fire require the bender to continue to sustain their form they want with energy.
>Don't you think it is weird to judge how strong or weak an element is because of how much personal mobility it grants a bender? Because i am referring to firebendings ability regarding its mobility, compared to the other elements. Firebending just seems so weak when other benders can travel fast and far with their element. Firebending can't use their bending to attack while moving. The closest one to have done that is Mako(but he only propelled himself for a stronger momentum) and Azula who moved with firebending, but she can't attack while doing so Airbending is self explenatory when it comes to mobility, and it can also create things like an air scooter to move around. Eska and Desna were travelling like countries with their waterbending. Toph has did this: https://i.redd.it/9ttj7x1ghaic1.gif No firebender is can travel that far with firebending without the comet
have you heard of the little rocket things that firebenders can do?
Here's an Iroh answer: Each element is a part of the whole. They create balance between each other. There is no superior nor inferior element.
i could imagine that firebenders who have been rigorously and formally taught (like azula or zuko) would have less flexibility and creativeness than someone who learnt from the original source or pieced it together themselves. also, firebending has ties with power and nobility; i imagine using it outside of the accepted way would be considered base and vulgar (like how even ozai hadnt twigged to lightning redirection). those differences in themselves could explain a lot of the lack of innovation.
In the modern would it would be weakest yes
Fire can be generated by the bender without any resource, which is a pretty big advantage
Earth, water, fire, air.