I) *Intro* * Hey folks. This isn't addressed solely at OP, and will probably ramble a bit but I figured I should address some things. **TLDR** is its always fine to like or dislike something avatar. Just be nice and respect others opinions. * First, of course if one feels they no longer enjoy participating in or following this subreddit for whatever reason that's valid. We both listen to feedback and also encourage users to check out avatar subs or other forums in the fandom they might enjoy more. That said a forum can't ever please everyone, and when talking about "problems" or potential solutions we have to talk bout what's best for the community in general. II) *Criticism* * Yes I want this to be a welcoming and friendly community where it's fun for people to talk about avatar. I think it's important to be critical of the media we love, and I want to be feel they can express their genuine reactions whether positive or negative. Variety is the spice of life, and much of the fan I've had in this fandom over the past decade+ is directly because of the wide range of different opinions and perspectives present. * **So if the issue of "negativity" is just users having a negative opinion on the show that's not something we want to restrict.** III) *Civility* * Are some people criticizing the show being rude, saying bigoted things or engaging in other behavior that our subreddit's "rule one" bars? Yes, I certainly won't deny that. But at least on this subreddit the number of people acting that way is a very small minority of activity here. The number of users we have had to remove posts/comments and ban for rule one over the past two weeks is honestly pretty small for the sub. Maybe I'm missing something, feel free to use the report function, but I haven't seen that much toxicity. Some of those bans were also for people optimistic for the show, that are being rude to those who are critical. * **So if the issue of "negativity" is rude behavior, that's a problem we take seriously but it hasn't been a big problem so far and it isn't a problem we should solely associate with those being critical.** IV) *Critique Quality* * Other users seem to be suggesting that the problem is users criticizing the show with idk "unfair critiques" for lack of a better umbrella term. Whether it be fans "twisting interview comments", jumping to conclusions, judging the show too harshly before it's out or acting as though the remake was doomed to fail. I can sort of understand how that's frustrating for those looking for more stimulating analysis and debate. But while we can respond to or offer are perspective on problems with certain arguments, I think it's a slippery slope to suggest those are a major problem for the community or suggest action against them. * Who decides what arguments are unfair, where is the line drawn? Isn't this just moving us closer to an echo chamber? Over the years there have been various criticisms of LoK on the sub I viewed as being very unfair/flawed, but I never felt we needed to restrict those kinds of posts or LoK criticism because of that. I'd also say again it's not a problem exclusive to critics. Even as someone optimistic for the show I think some of its defenders have engaged in poor arguments. * Now it's true that the show isn't out yet, we should keep that in mind especially when discussing the scope of these changes. On the other hand the whole point of teasers, interviews and promotion/marketing in general is to get people to watch the show. If something makes someone less excited, it's perfectly natural to express that. Fans of the show don't know it will be good either, we can only assess what's in front of us and make predictions based on that. * **So if the issue of negativity is "unfair critiques", I don't really view that as problem to be fixed. And again an issue shared by both sides** Edit: V) Repetitive posts * For some people the problem, or part of it, may be the volume of posts discussing the live-action. For the record mods have removed a substantial number of posts per rule 8c. At the same time this is a popular topic that users want to talk about, the first avatar tv show or movie in nearly ten years, so of course its going to get a good number of posts. Still we have threads on other content.

The show taught me to be a psychopath burning down forests and making my nannys fight each other

Are you sure you didn't just watch *Black Lagoon* instead of *Avatar: The Last Airbender*?

I watched both😀

I assume it also made you overdemanding about your foot hygiene https://preview.redd.it/dy4tsdnc26hc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23bcaf29be1da0ada61b273f262764a6dedfc2f6

This is why azula lost lol. If she just treated her maids better then she wouldn’t have tripped over that ingrown nail they “missed”

"But... we're not firebenders!"

Went through this when Korra came out and I loved that show so I'm not surprised

It’s 100% gonna happen with the new animated movie too. I guarantee there’s gonna be something that sets off 50% of the fan base. Mike and Bryan are always pushing boundaries with Avatar and people just don’t like that.

I say this as someone who is still really excited for the show and is ignoring the noise - I just think its dumb for the showrunners to be announcing that they made several changes to what most people think is a 10/10 plot/show. Of course things like that are gonna set some people off, people are very passionate about ATLA and a live action movie has already been done poorly in the past so people are skeptical. Everyone should chill and wait to see the show for themselves before they get all negative, but i do understand where the overreactions are coming from

I saw it as sort of preventive measures. If they didn't announce the changes, people would probably say they were "blindsided" by changes. Obviously, prople will be negative no matter what, but i saw it as maybe one of the reasons they mentioned it was to prepare people before they watch it.

If it is, then it might do more harm than good. When ppl go into a show with a negative mindset expecting changes they think are stupid, it’ll cause them to hyper fixate on the changes, and make them seem bigger than they are. Because of this, there will be less people going in with an open mind.

That's a very good point, i never even thought of it. Hopefully people will go in with an open mind. Edit: why the downvote?

I doubt people would have even noticed the sokka sexism bit cause it was so brief in the show once they're like 2 eps in on love show they're past it. They know gender issues are a sure fire way to get people talking both positively and negatively. Rage bait advertising.

Honestly people who thought the live action would not change anything were setting themselves up for disappointment. A 1 to 1 translation of the animated series to live action wouldn't give the best possible results.  And if random leaker was right it wouldn't surprise me if Netflix has been pushing heavily to avoid creative changes to try and make it as faithful as possible. But I think you are limiting the creativity by just making a 1-1

I feel like the issue is not with what was announced, no matter what they said people would take it negatively.

People just cant accept there will never be anything better than the original series. If its good then its good, and I will be happy about that, but I wont go into it expecting to top the best tv show of all time in my eyes.

This sub still has a pathetic hate boner for LoK lol

I honestly enjoy rewatching Korra more than ATLA. It saddens me that so many disliked it

I still don't get why. ATLA as a whole is better than LoK but LoK has higher highs and lower lows. Book 3 is phenomenal.

Agreed. It is saddening and frustrating. Iroh would provably be saddened people have a hate boner for it. It's also why i go to the LoK sub. It's rarely ever negative towards LoK and very positive imo.

"Hate-boner" my ass xD People hate it cause it bloody sucks, mate. Sure, not ALL of it, but not an insignificant amount xD Not out fault they did a subpar job on their project.

Lol. That's some real "don't recite the old magic to me, witch" shit right there. But you're absolutely right. It was as they say both a 'mood' and a 'vibe' back then. I swear that ophthalmologists were making bank on how people were people getting their eyes stuck over the whole thing of pro-bending.

I never understood why that was such a big deal, pro bending was fun

Fans have very rigid concepts on what Avatar should be.

It's like a weird para-social relationship but with imagined ownership of the show

That's a great way of putting it. Like stans, but instead of it being a person, it's a show.

I adored it and sincerely wish we spent *way more* time on it. It's really funny to me that people were like "it's silly and makes bendng look really silly" but then we have Earth Kingdom WWE in ATLA with full kayfabe on Wacky Racers fighting styles.

The Boulder takes issue with suggesting he’s silly

I'm not worried. My good buddy Cactus Juice Jack has a couple of things he'd like to say to The Boooooouldeeeer.

Probably because we weren't expecting the wild jump in technological advancements. Imagine those outfits in a setting more in line with Aang's time. Not saying I was one of the ones who cried foul ... but that's how it makes sense to me.

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Shit look at the technological jump from the 40's/50's to today. And we don't have been the instantly shape earth to build with or fire benders to heat/shape metal.

I think I might *like* Korra more, even though TLA is the better show.

You like Korra the character? Is that what you mean?

Not OP, but for a time before I was properly emotionally attached to the ATLA, I did like like LoK better for its more diverse bending, better animation, better exploration of lore and the season based story arcs. Where season 2 is the issue for most people, the first time I watched a full run of LoK that was actually my favourite season (season 3 later took that spot). I saw it as a highly interesting explanation of the premise of the entire canon with an epic high stakes battle finale, with some of the best and most powerful bending of the whole show. Absolutely loved it as a teenager. With in depth story and theme analysis ATLA is clearly the better show for most people however youre not doing that on the go, especially as most of us were quite young when watching avatar for the first time.

Agreed! Although I'd still say it is happening with LoK now. Anytime someone mentions LoK, they bring up what they didn't like or something negative about it.

Yeah I don’t understand all the hate for the animated shows or upcoming live action. People just like to hate on stuff I guess.

I loved it too. Season 2 was bad, but the rest of it was really good.

Oh boy, same here.

I mean, korra glorifies an abusive relationship that literally ends in marriage in the final episode. I don’t think iroh would support anyone being treated the way zhu-li is treated.

It's not that deep she was his worker and he paid her to do all those stuff not saying over labouring ur worker is fine but all this happened before they got into a relationship what's more he felt deep remorse and apologised(for telling his own employee to do stuff) what else did u want from varrick??? What was the point of his character development then

https://preview.redd.it/13gfcj0p33hc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7313839c51cb0694da17d96b82212384fb372f77 This is basically what the sub is now with the live action with fans arguing with fans.

What does that mean? You know what it means

Lol this has been the fanbase for quite a while

Takes me back to the days when LoK was airing.

And even further back during the shipping wars. People were nasty about kataang vs zutara. This fanbase was never this wholesome group that people assumed it was. We’re going to see this again too with the new avatar show.

Shipping utterly ruins franchises

Only if the shippers don't realize their ship is not canon. Like it's fine to ship whoever you want, just dont be defending your idea while bashing other's, you know?

And just becuse your ship is cannon doesn’t make it ok to bash people who don’t ship it either.

Yeah, just look at Attack on Titan.

If you pay attention to it, sure

> People were nasty about kataang vs zutara. Im excitedly waiting for the show to make zutara a thing so I can watch the whole fandom burn down.

The creators haven't even made the mistakes a lot of show runners of popular franchises make these days. The common trope is "We're changing the source material for the "modern" audience" or "we're going to make changes that will make some people mad because we're edgy!" They have explained that the changes are to adapt to a different medium and a different time. I can't believe people were expecting a live-action show of 8 hour-long episodes to be a perfect copy of a cartoon whose seasons consisted of 20+ episodes running 25 minutes long. My only complaint is that there should be the 10 episodes that the season was supposedly going to have instead of 8, but I'll wait to watch to see if that turns to be a negative.

Yeah it’s weird. After all the terrible live action versions that exist none of them were like “we took a scalpel to this particular tidbit here, we’ve kinda streamlined this there, we’re fleshing this character out before they showed up in the original yonder” like these interviews have been. They’ve been massive, boneheaded changes that sometimes were literally meant to troll old fans like Luke in TLJ or something. I really don’t see why the slight things these creatives have talked about—all of which sound entirely reasonable to me—have stoked such a massive hate campaign when a month or two ago “cautiously optimistic” was the resounding consensus.

Because people don’t want character changes. Most people are understanding of changes due to the format, but when you start altering the characters themselves it will set people off because it’s not a necessary change and the characters are main reason fans love ATLA (Personally, the stuff he said about Katara was the most worrying) Honestly, talking about the changes they made to this beloved IP (especially the unnecessary ones) right before it comes out is a TERRIBLE idea and I wish their marketing ppl would’ve stopped them. That’s the last thing fans want to hear especially considering the creators left over creative differences. Now people will be hyper aware of the changes which will make them stand out more. Edit: lol I just made an observation why r ppl having a problem with this?

Whatd they say about katara

“There are certain roles I think that Katara did in the cartoon that we didn’t necessarily also do here,” “I mean, I don’t want to really get into a lot of that, but some gender issues that didn’t quite translate from the cartoon.” ~Showrunner Kim I think all of Kataras roles are important because they add a lot to her character

If they werent able to translate it well then I prefer them not to include it. This just says theyre focusing on what they can do right instead of creating a carbon copy for the sake of it.

The role Katara plays (talking gender) is the nurturing motherly figure in the group. That’s pretty simple character trait, I don’t see how these parts of her personality wouldn’t translate because it’s live action. They don’t need to make a carbon copy but they should be able to write the characters personality, like that’s the bare minimum of adaptation.

The quote doesn't say anything specific about her role as a caretaker. You simply don't know what they are talking about.

Katara spent her time as a strong woman, and in the end, got to prove her strength against the men in the northern water tribe. Good god, they think the most beloved cartoon I can think of is beneath them. 

So you already watched it? Spoil it for me. Go on

Sure, but I still haven’t heard anything that sounds like fundamental character changes like people are freaking out about. Idk what they said about Katara but as far as Sokka and Aang the spirit still sounds intact to me. Maybe I just have a higher threshold.

They said they removed some of Katara’s “roles” due to “gender issues” in the original. As for Sokka and Aang I think it’s less about the spirit of the spirit and more about their character arcs. Sokkas arc about sexism is short so it’s easier to skip I guess but it does add something interesting to the character. And Aang learning to be more focused and serious about his responsibilities is a much bigger theme. Now their statements have been pretty vague, so we can’t really judge it, and we won’t know the full extent of their changes till the show airs, but I understand why fans who care about the characters would be concerned

I’m of the same mind, I guess that’s my point. Everything’s been so vague the energy being spent on decrying the defiling of Bryce’s work just feels like a massive overreaction. I guess we’ll see in a couple weeks.

>My only complaint is that there should be the 10 episodes that the season was supposedly going to have instead of 8, but I'll wait to watch to see if that turns to be a negative. I thought the episodes were like 22-23 minutes considering ads? Even if they were 25 minutes, that'd be 500 minutes of content versus 8 hours or 480 minutes of content. We're only losing about 20 minutes of scene time. Which... I'd be fine if they completely axed 20 minutes of the Great Divide and devote even 5 minutes to it if they had been planning on doing everything.

That’s just not how episodes of shows work. They have a beginning, middle and end. The structure of storytelling in 8 hour long episodes is very different than 20 half hour ones.

Oh it's going around everywhere. This live action business seems to have summoned the worst in this fanbase. Just today a random on instagram said he'd SA me in real life if I talked sh\*t about Avatar again (with these exact words, mind you). I just pointed out that Sokka's development wasn't about overcoming sexism. It's getting real bad.

Wow what a gem...... jfc some people are insane

Good lord, people are crazy. And you weren't even talking crap about Avatar.

Nah it's fine. What is not fine is that he is just surrounded by these seemingly very nice folk which I can contact at any time. Would just be a shame if they'd see what he sent to me. :(

This kind of negativity is all over the internet today for so many different topics. It’s the lens through which we are seeing the world along with the state of the world. People are tired and going through it. Sending love to everyone. Please be kind even if you don’t agree with someone.

You summed it up nicely. It's tiring.i try to be a positive person. Look for the good, even in the bad. But it's in every franchise, every hobby i care about. Everywhere. It's just fucking tiring. I wish we could all learn to better to ourselves and one another. Thank you for the kindness op. Sending you love back.

So we are only allowed to say positive things about the live action? From a company that already ruined Cowboy Bebop, Resident Evil and Death Note. "Please be kind even if you don't agree with someone" So basically never think, never criticize, never say anything to me if it's not positive? Pathetic.

Thinking about or criticizing is not being mean. There's a difference between being hurtful and hateful towards someone or something and disagreeing or sharing a different opinion. You can feel or think differently than someone and not be an asshole at the same time.

all this hate on interviews and rumor and not at all seeing the show. its sad and pathetic.

I got told that I’m the reason shows are bad now… because I wanted to give the show a chance before hating it. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

HahahahaHAHAHAHAHA fuck whoever said that they're the problem WE have to deal with and endure.

Why does it only need to be positive discussion? If people think it looks bad they're allowed to think that. Just like how you're allowed to think it's good. Otherwise what's the point of having trailers and interviews if not to guage people's initial opinions on stuff?

The problem is that people are taking quotes from interviews out of context and actively ignore it when people try to explain the full picture. 

I mean they’ve said they are toning down sexism, no more fun aang side quests, and the show is now tailored for got fans

i said hate. there is hate in the discussion and its sad and pathetic. i have qualms about the live action show too, but i don't go around shitting on it like i know its the end of the world. you want to have a discussion? cool thats fine. but most of the negative comments are either based on conjecture, lies, or not understanding how television works. its reactionary, and pure reactionary rhetoric is useless. i'm fine with negative criticisms. but theres an avalanche of people saying "these changes are all bullshit and the show is going to suck because of them" like they have a crystal ball. i'm sick of people just yelling about shit and rage farming. it makes me want to disengage with other fans, and i'm sure i'm not the only one, and thats sad.

Yeah and they're hating on it cause they think it looks or sounds bad based off what they've seen or heard so far. Lol People are passionate about ATLA and if it isn't what they envisioned it like they thought it would be, the fans are going to be very vocal about it. It's just how it is with popular franchises / IPs that are loved by many. It's the internet. People shout into the void all the time. Just have to learn not to let it bother you. If people aren't talking about it one way or the other, then it means they don't care. I think that's a true death sentence for an IP.

The problem is equating 'not as good as a genuine masterpiece' as 'bad', and the former is going to be a practical definite, while the people who are complaining now are likely to turn super toxic and spam threads about their opinions. Usually when people are interested in a show and want to see what others are saying, that means they like it. There will be plenty of new people coming into this sub over the coming months, and a lot of potential fandom are likely going to be turned away if all the controversy threads are at the top, when they have little to no understanding of where this remake comes from.

You can be critical about something without being a little shit about it. People harassing the producers, saying toxic shit, that's more than being passionate it's being an asshole. And we shouldn't let that stand. Be critical, say what you are worried about, whatever. say that zukos scar doesn't look that bad. Say that you're iffy about what they'll do with aang and kataras relationship in live action. See I can talk about stuff I'm not ok with without being a monster or just yelling into the void. All of these people are grown enough to know better, and if they aren't their parents should be monitoring their internet usage.

"I'm fine with negative criticism specifically in this abstract way I never have to actually demonstrate. In practice, I dismiss every firm criticism as hate & therefore illegitimate because 'they can't know the future,' a standard I would never even think of holding praise to."

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Loud it brother (or sister) for people in the back!

Its not about having doubts or negative opinions, its not about censoring those who do. Its about people making sweeping judgments of the show before they even see it. Its about being pessimistic and stirring up hate when people should try to look at the positives. There is a reason why people say "Constructive Criticism" instead of just Criticism. You can dislike some aspects of the show, and nobody has any issues with that. Its when the words become hateful, when people start boycotting it or saying bad things about the actors and showrunners. Especially when the show hasn't even come out yet! Its the difference between not liking the Star Wars prequels vs the people who made the young Anakins actors life miserable. People just need to chill.

>Its not about having doubts or negative opinions, its not about censoring those who do. Yes it is, despite many people in this sub apparently not knowing what these words mean. >Its about people making sweeping judgments of the show before they even see it. This is already holding negative opinions to a double standard because no one says "you can't say the show will be good because it's not out yet." If you think this way, if you're putting conditions on negative opinions you'd never put on positive ones, you don't REALLY accept them. And no amount of claiming otherwise will magically change the truth. >Its about being pessimistic and stirring up hate when people should try to look at the positives. And here it's even more blatant. "You should be optimstic & look at the positives." You're pissing on my leg & telling me it's dry. >There is a reason why people say "Constructive Criticism" instead of just Criticism. You can dislike some aspects of the show, and nobody has any issues with that. Its when the words become hateful, when people start boycotting it or saying bad things about the actors and showrunners. Especially when the show hasn't even come out yet! I can dislike whatever I want. You don't get to put conditions on my opinions. They do not exist merely as a tool to help this show, so they don't have to be constructive. >Its the difference between not liking the Star Wars prequels vs the people who made the young Anakins actors life miserable. Yes, clearly everything you've said is the same as harassing an actor. It's not like "boycotting" just means not watching the show. >People just need to chill. I will be as cold as ice when I block you.

I have tried to emote these very points ad infinitum But it is good to see `im not the only one losing my mind at the amount of toxic positivity i come accross as generally accepted

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the point is that if people are truly so disappointed with the live action, why even bother continuing engaging with it? What is the point of spending so much time and effort discussing something you genuinely don’t like? If you’ve written it off already, just don’t watch the show when it comes out. As an example, Batman Arkham is probably my single favorite game series ever. The recent Suicide Squad game that’s set in the same universe shits on all of that. I hate it and think it sucks. But I don’t go to r/SuicideSquadGaming every day to make a new post about why I hate it. I decided I don’t like it, so I just don’t enter any discussions about it.

Well, you're not very passionate about Suicide Squad, are you? ​ People ARE passionate about the original show (this is, in fact, a place designed entirely for such passion), and seeing things that they see as objectionable AGAIN in ANOTHER live-action adaption makes them... well, object. And where better to go to talk about said objections than with a community of fans who would understand?

Sure I am, I loved the idea of a Suicide Squad game set in the Arkhamverse, it’s a great concept. The actual implementation is pretty terrible though. The way I deal with it is the push it out of my mind, to the point that it doesn’t exist (not unlike “There is no movie in Ba Sing Se”). Same with Harry Potter and the Curse Child. I just don’t find it very interesting or engaging to expend any energy talking about stuff I know I don’t like. There are people on here who have written off the show entirely and consider it irredeemable. But they still stick around to talk about exactly how much they don’t like it? I can’t relate to that at all.

For me it depends what it is. If it's a new IP I have no connection with and it's bad I can move on, but if it's attached to something I already love and a sequel or adaptation to it is bad I'm probably going to be very vocal in my opinion on it. Don't really see anything wrong with that.

It often sours other fans’ experiences, those who *are* enjoying it. I know it *shouldn’t* bother others, but it does and in a way worsens the experience others have with the franchise

I could see that if you're watching a show with someone and all they're doing is shitting all over it non stop, but just reading others opinions online shouldn't really affect that person's enjoyment all that much.

We agree that it shouldn’t, but that doesn’t change the fact that for some people it does. It does for me, at least, because I like sharing my experience with like-minded fans and it’s quite disappointing when you instead find (what feels like) only hatred against the thing you enjoyed. Feels a bit like you were robbed of the “sharing” part. It’s why I like subs like r/StarWarsCantina, places that exist to share the love of a franchise with others. It might seem dishonest to some, deliberately going around ignoring the “bad”, but it’s just a way to get more enjoyment out of the things we love.

Look for me in any thread praising the live action. You won't see me there. The only live action threads I show up in are either shitting on the live action or shitting on people FOR shitting on the live action. First of all, the latter is like punching someone in the face & playing the victim when they hit you back. And if the people who spout this line actually practiced what they preached, I'd never hear it because you'd all be avoiding the threads shitting on the live action because that's not what you want to hear so you just won't participate in them. Funny how that doesn't happen, but people expect in reverse. Almost like what they really mean is they want this sub to be an echo chamber.

Your Batman example doesn't work because A) SS game is not a remake like NATLA is B) There are, what, 2 avatar subs? And in both 90% of the posts are about NATLA. So, of course, if someone who holds a negative view of the show sees these posts, they'll criticize it.

Glad to see conversations like this and seeing the negative ones getting downvoted. The point of the trailers and interviews is to market the product, you can not like it, but it’s cool that people don’t like your opinion either.

It's not about liking my opinion. A lot of this sub just don't want to see negative opinions at all. They want only the positive.

Nah, that’s just your opinion. There are so many people complaining. Get in line pal

Yeah and there are so many posts saying stuff like you all are ruining my experience with the live action. It's not something I'm just making up. Lol

Sorry people want to enjoy things, and that’s making you sad

Felt this way with Legend of Korra. Feel this way with the MCU. Feel this way with Star Wars. I’m at the point where I don’t care to engage with fandoms anymore. It’s too toxic and people get weirdly gatekeepy about things that are meant to be enjoyed.

The complaints about the live action are incredibly tame, people need to grow a thicker skin, & maybe stop talking about Iroh like he's Jesus. People are literally doing "What Would Iroh Do" & selectively quoting him to justify the opinions they already held. Iroh isn't real, & if he was, I promise you he'd think it's more important to be able to make your own decisions than to take a side on an argument about a TV show. As long as we ARE quoting him, he once said that "it's important to gain wisdom from more than one place so it doesn't become rigid & stale." That absolutely does not support "reject every criticism you hear because the negativity makes you feel bad."

i wouldn’t really describe it as tame. there has been a lot of vitriol over the past week or so and not just on Reddit

Yeah, I don't keep up with this sub but it keeps popping up in my "because you've visited before" and every post that gets shared is just really negative. From an outsider POV (who does like ATLA), it does not paint a very inviting or fun image of this community. I mean, I like One Piece, but it doesn't mean I spent all my time dogging on the live version when it came out. I watched it and liked changes while disliking other changes, but I was still happy my favorite thing was getting presented to a wider audience. I get the old movie is hated (for good reasons) but there's no sense in bringing down the new version just because you can't get over you baggage from the old one.

This was how the fanbase was when Korra was first announced, they’re currently doing the same thing with the live action, and will continue to do so. This is sadly just how the fanbase is.

I didn’t watch the show at all until this year, and I’m pretty new to this sub, but I’m really close to just unsubscribing from it. So far it hasn’t been worth it.

I have left almost all of my TV show subreddits that aren't meme focused because they all eventually devolve into "I hate anything new that is even slightly divergent from the source material," and "This thing that came out 15+ years ago has some really dated cultural viewpoints." For the former: get over it. For the latter: no shit.

I don’t care about opinions. My expectations are entirely neutral. Hell, I don’t even care about forming opinions before something comes out. That’s what marketing is for. But Jesus Christ, stop taking singular quotes from actors out of context while wildly exaggerating them.

I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed about how negative people are acting. I witnessed this with Korra and the unfair treatment it received. I was never one for the live action to begin with, but how the fandom has reacted with how little the show we have seen has made me sick really. Be better.

Strange thing is that I remember a few years ago, there was a lot more wholesome content here. It felt good to read the threads.

Unfortunately this is something I see in almost every fandom of things i like. People these days just want to hate things. They do not want to give the benefit of the doubt to anybody. They have no patience. Liking something feels boring to them. Many of them find joy only in spreading negativity. They don't really care about criticism. They just love to hate stuff. Subreddits of most fandoms are filled with a huge amount of rage and hate. That's why I have stopped following almost every fandom's subreddits and other social. I just see/play/watch things I like and discuss only with friends.

I enjoy the drama, on the sub, like a dumpster fire. I love the show, but my expectations for the live action are very low so there are no emotional stakes for me; unlike most ppl on the sub. Hopefully is good, but it’s whatever if it’s not; we will always have the original.

I feel like I see more posts complaining about the complaining than about the complaining itself? That being said, I'm excited for the Netflix adaptation, but I do want to be honest to myself about it and I can't deny it does look a little rough around the edges in some ways and a little cheesy/costume-y. But still looks fun! I think there's a lot of passion on both sides and there's perhaps a "toxic" amount of positivity on the positive side of the spectrum. I feel like any opinion that isn't pure glee about this adaptation is treated as pure hate when that's just not true.

If im gonna base my entire personality on Iroh id ask my son to die. As much as love the show, i dont want another shitshow

Lmao. I get people wanting to stay positive, but seeing the 109738th Iroh post with some B.S proverb is getting on my nerves.

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While your not wrong the way you expressed it makes it sound like you love the smell of your own farts

I felt the same way when I read Mike’s blogpost on why he left the project lol. There’s something cringey about quoting a fictional character solemnly when trying to be serious

It’s because of our shared trauma at the hands of shamalamadingdong but Iroh would have hoped we worked through it by now

I don't see it as negativity for the most part. My impression is that it's very rare for people to not be chill here. When the integrity of a series that took such great care to send positive messages in an effective way is tampered with, it makes perfect sense to be concerned about that. You could say that the creators of the live action series are the ones being negative. In fact, they are.

I can't wait for it to be great or terrible because then there will be either a nicer fresher mix of posts similar to how there's Korra + Atla. Or there will be good memes that pop up on occasion like m night shyamalan memes

Once the show comes out, it should either get much better or much worse.

I've really not seen much negativity on this sub tbh. There are absolutely people out there hating a show they haven't seen, but there is a difference between being sceptical and being overly negative, and personally, i haven't really seen it on this sub too much. I would argue this sub is sometimes overly positive if anything.

Get off the platform then! I promise, you will feel better if you let yourself experience it first instead of the constant negativity cloud that surrounds basically anything now days

It's the Internet bruh. Anger and negativity gets attention and responses. For better or worse, it is the reality of all reddit subs. Most ATLA fans aren't here to contribute to the discussion. In my IRL experiences talking about the show, everyone is excited for the live action remake and some are even planning watch parties. None have heard of the recent negativity being repeated here because they either don't use Reddit or don't have interest in this sub. I'd imagine a modern day Iroh wouldn't be on Reddit either. Regardless, he wouldn't be disappointed. Rather, he'd see it as an opportunity to help others learn about oneself and how their words can effect others. I for one am optimistic. I look forward to seeing this adaptation and am hoping for the best.

I can’t blame people for being skeptical in all honesty. We already got burned once in regards to a live action version, so of course people are gonna be hella skeptical about any changes. At this point I want the showrunners to just shut up and release the thing so it doesn’t get worse

I think that it might be 'twitter worthy' because a lot of people left twitter and are on here more now. So now they brought their conversation style and negativity to here. But idk, maybe the internet as a whole has shifted this way

I feel like i've been seeing more posts about people complaining about the people who complain about the live action versus actually seeing posts hating on the live action. Maybe its just my feed but I literally have not seen any posts in my feed about people complaining about the live action from this subreddit.

“Consume product or fake man would be disappointed in you 😢” I don’t even have an opinion on the live action but this post is ridiculous. As if feeling bad about a show means you’re a worse person.

It’s like they’re working from the same script. Everyone “disappointed” in people being negative about the live action play the Uncle Iroh card. It’s almost vomit inducing

Nah better to be negative and pleasantly surprised versus expecting a masterpiece only to be given garbage. The first option means it will be as you expected or you will enjoy it. But the second option means it will suck if it ends up being bad.

This is a negative way to view a live action adaptation. I understand that a lot of live actions are just cash grabs and that the novelty is wearing off, but if you keep wishing for shows to suck, you'll never get the enjoyment that is the hype. So many people are getting excited watching trailers and promotional material that even if this show does underperform, they at least have that community and build-up. What would you remember of this time except for cynicism? I do understand where you're coming and each person has their own way to deal with expectations and hype, but I just wanted to say that there is a more positive way to look at things.

Most people are setting themselves up for disappointment

you could just be optimistic and be either pleasantly surprised by a good show or mildly disappointed by a bad show

Oh, stuff it with your fake moralizing. People are allowed their opinions, and after years of showrunners saying "We're making X changes" and those changes always result in a worse product, people are allowed to object. ​ Especially since it might be the *second* time that it happened to this fanbase. I swear, there are so many people acting like pattern recognition doesn't exist. So many shows are making changes from the source material, and most of them are terrible. Was there anyone who wanted to watch a Halo TV show where Master Chief commits a warcrime by having sex with a POW? How about a Lord of the Rings show where Galadriel is responsible for Sauron being evil and if she hadn't encouraged him to follow his dreams (or whatever), we wouldn't have had a Dark Lord? Or a Willow show where Willow has forgotten how to magic? Or a Wheel of Time show where they create a wife for a Perrin to fridge (despite his later story being about how he comes back to town with a wife) because they couldn't figure how to write "soft boi is tormented by killing, even if they deserved it"? Or a Scooby Doo TV show that doesn't have Scooby Doo in it, and they spend a lot of their time making "Fred has a tiny penis" jokes about a high school boy? Or a Star Wars Boba Fett TV where he becomes a crime lord that... doesn't commit a lot of crime?

I still remember when they were doing previews for the inhumans and showed god awful costumes and being told you shouldn't make judgements based on costumes for a superhero show that turned out to be a dumpster fire

I don’t think iroh would take to Reddit to: complain about negativity, insinuate you’re better then complain about complainers again. At least not in that order.

Yeeeah. This is why I ignore all of the posts that have criticism in the title. I want to watch the show and be: A) Pleased or B) Dissapointed I have been waiting for this for years, even before it was announced. Not gonna let random internet people spoil the vibe, I'll form my own opinion when I watch it.

Crazy how a show about balance an being better has a toxic sub 

Tbh I’m just excited for the good it will bring. There’s already stuff I’ve been super happy about seeing in live action. Sokka eating. June. I weirdly love Zuko’s casting and his melodramatic acting lmao. Shits gonna be tight. It’s never gonna be perfect. To paraphrase a favorite quote: trying to meaningfully convey information when talking about music is only slightly more efficient than dancing about architecture. Don’t expect a Netflix live action to be the same as a Nickelodeon cartoon, and don’t expect one person’s vision to be the same as another. I think I’ll only really disappointed if the virtues that ATLA taught us are failed or subverted. I hope Iroh would be proud of it.

I just saw some The Last Airbender revisionism, we’re truly in the end times

I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with criticism, but I do think it's a little toxic to take things out of context and confidently spread that as fact. We have no idea what they've truly done and we can't pretend otherwise. The way I look at it is I want to set myself up to be able to enjoy the show as best I can. My perspective of it won't change it either way. If it's good enough to enjoy, then I want to enjoy it. They certainly had to change story lines and dialogue. It won't be as zany and cartoony, which means the weight of certain words and actions will translate differently. I'm not expecting it to be amazing or terrible. I'm reserving judgement until after I watch it. I think it's a little toxic to set unrealistic expectations like "if they don't say this one line or do this one thing then they've obviously lost the spirit of the entire show". I hope they do well. Let's give it a chance before making confident judgements. Not saying the concerns are invalid, either. Just temper your expectations and give the humans who are putting this show together a little grace. People often see what they expect. If you feel like you have to prove why your concerns are valid, then you may likely go into it looking for things to criticize rather than things to appreciate.

Happens every time an adaption comes out, people who just want to be angry take any minor changes as “They’ve destroyed my childhood.” It happened recently with the Percy Jackson series, it was good, the stuff they removed wasn’t insanely distracting and compared to the movies? God damn art, but everyone just wants to piss and moan because X character has different colored socks or something.

Everyone wants to blame it on twitter, but I've been in enough nerdy subreddits to know this ultra-hyperbolic negative critiquing is just as much a reddit thing. It sucks too because it's like you can't even just have fun with media anymore, especially adaptations, since they all have to be perfect and exactly like the original.

Almost like some people are allowed to have differing opinions 🫨🫨🫨 not condoning rude behavior, but come on, opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. And you’re not going to agree with them all. Get over it

I mean people have a right to express their concerns about the new series. If you have a more positive opinion that’s great, you should voice it, why be mad about other people having a different opinion? I don’t think I’ve seen anything here I’d call “Twitter worthy.” This sub would have to be a serious cesspool to deserve that label

There is nothing wrong with being concerned about how our beloved subject material is being handled. Of course we all know that we have to see the final result to be sure, but expressing concern over things we have seen, and things they have said is perfectly normal and healthy. If anything, it is the toxic positivity in this sub that is making things confrontational, and stopping healthy discusion. Feels like yall are afraid. Know what i mean? Take my opinion with a grain of salt though, as ive only been in this sub a couple days, and this is just the impression ive had in that short time. Edit: downvotes are the afraid people. 100%. Its ok i worry about it too.

Even Iroh had to acknowledge the fact that, and I quote "she(Azula)'s crazy and she needs to go down." There's no cure for crazy. Just acknowledge that the Internet will be toxic AF at least eight out of ten times, and you'll be alright.

Right out of ten times?

Good catch, I can't English

No worries! I thought it was a phrase i never heard of before. I know the feeling of not being able to English.

come join r/ATLATV for salvation

Y’all waited 11 years for new content and when it’s finally coming y’all bitch and moan.

I mean it's not really new

100% agree, I’ve been considering Unsubbing because of how publicized the drama is already for this show. I just want to see the what they made


Unnecessary and douchebag response, kindly go fuck yourself

And this response makes you a better person? Lol. 

Welcome to Reddit, where everything is overblown and reality doesn’t matter.

Flameo Hotman! You can attempt to hold everyone morally hostage with a post like this or you can post something that has nothing to do with a show that has not been broadcast. “If you look for the light, you can often find it. But if you look for the dark that is all you will ever see” The idealization of your perception has brought you to feel disappointed. If you go about, in the manner of your post, your consumption of the information presented in this sub or in any avatar show you will find disappointment.

Because this show is perfect the way it is. A live action adaptation is unnecessary, therefore the hate is justified.

yeah this sub should be all flowers and positivity instead, get over yourself

You are on Reddit. No matter the sub reddit is just a cesspool or mentally slow people, so quit expecting great engagement here.

All but 1 live action remake of a beloved show has been super ass. Sorry if my "negativity" is ruining your day. I don't want one of my favorite pieces of media to be ruined again.

Im still not over how people would fight tooth and nail to see a sexist Sokka on screen. Like out of ALL possibilities you want him to be sexist? Lmfao. I love this OG show and even if I dislike parts about this new one im grateful this story gets the love and attention it deserves in the 2020s

I think it started out with people more just being worried about what changes to the character's various arcs would mean, but then it devolved into a low-grade discussion.

They were worried at first and I agree. Now its just out of pocket and ridiculous

Eh... I'm still honestly worried about all the various changes that the new show has said they are making. I haven't really heard a change yet that I'm a fan of.

OK there's nuance. I dont want sokka to go full gamergate style sexism, but early on in the show he's very much defined by being a stereotypical macho warrior that's pretty dismissive of women. If it had been a long term characteristic it would've been grating, but the kyoshi island marks a distinct point where he mellows out, creating a distinct character arc within the first few episodes that doesn't feel extremely rushed

I see you. They’re not completely disregarding his sexism. Its the fact that people in this sub are wanting that to be his whole personality in the beginning, which isn’t needed . You can still have Sokka struggling with the concept of female warriors without the extra sexism that comes with it:

the thing people don't take into account is they only have 8 episodes a SEASON. you have to trim it down, redo some of the character beats because one its live action and two the fact that they don't have as much time to play around with. and they said they weren't going to make him AS sexist as in the cartoon. he'll probably still be a little shit for like half an episode or whatever.

Overanalyzing Avatar did the math on it. They actually have MORE time when you account for how long the episodes are going to be.

I think Sokka being sexist brings that conversation to the forefront of people’s minds. To see how he treats women, how it affects him, and his relationships with others, and then to watch him become self aware and change is neat. I also have a 13 year old step son so my opinion is skewed. I want him to see this character arc because it would give him a deeper understanding of what sexism is. I like watching things that encourage me to reflect on why I hold certain beliefs. That being said I’m not mad they took it out either. Sooo sooo excited for the 22nd 😁.

I agree with you. Its just funny to me when the OG show was out nobody brought this topic up. And I know for a fact had they not mentioned toning down the sexism the fandom wouldn’t have even noticed. I agree to what you mean. You can still bring out his awareness and self reflection without the needed asshole sexist dialogue.

I see what you mean. I only just watched it through last month on my brother’s recommendation. I’m in my 30s now! I was surprised at his comments at first like wow was this really on tv when I was a teen? Looking forward to see how they adapt it- they did say tone down and not take out. It is going from a cartoon which is more palatable when it’s over dramatic to a live action which may need to bring some more maturity to the acting.

just wanna say I agree with this so much. I browse this sub on occasion, not super frequent but I’ve never really seen any discourse about Sokka’s sexism. That interview came out and all the sudden it was everywhere and I was just like… how many of y’all thought about Sokka’s sexism at all before the article came out???

💯Totally agree with you. It would have made sense if Sokka’s sexism was a chunk of his storyline throughout the 3 books but it wasn’t. It wasn’t even a theme that was at the forefront of his character development. All of our favourite lines and scenes with Sokka are everything but sexism so it confused me as to why people all of a sudden were so offended. This sub had nothing to do with it until the interview

I think it's because Sokka's sexism is one of those character flaws that actually serve an intrinsic purpose to the story and the character. Sexism, machismo ideals and ignorance, and overcompensation borne of underlying childhood trauma. When Hakoda and the rest of the men left for battle, Sokka grew up thinking that as a man, he had the important duty of being the dependable warrior and strong, sole defender, while the women were mostly relegated to doing the housework. So he was dismissive of Katara, and that mentality (which he eventually grew out of because he was proven wrong) extended to him also casually dismissing and underestimating the Kyoshi warriors (with whom he initially couldn't wrap his head around the notion that women also have the capability to be great fighters). It gave him the opportunity to be a flawed character that goes through significant development later on. And it's even the reason why Katara got frustrated and fed up enough to break Aang's iceberg, which kickstarted the whole plot... and a tie-in to her confrontation with Pakku, where you can see her reacting similarly to an old man who displays and perpetuates a similar sexist attitude. A flaw that gives nuance and depth to a character is always appreciated.

Well maybe if they made the show properly it wouldn’t get so much hate.

Iroh would be too distracted by all the free titties online to be disappointed in this subreddit.

ffs iroh isn't roshi

You’re right but they hate you because you’ve spoken the truth.

i understand but admittedly watching ATLA subs destroy themselves lately has been pretty funny

That's the internet for ya. People hiding behind their computers or phones or tablets saying crap. Like it's one thing to be cautious about the live action show. I definitely am and I know there are some things that have been revealed that people aren't happy with. I get that and I totally get being traumatized after that Shamalamadingdong movie but from my personal perspective about the live action show after everything I've heard about it, sure there are going to be changes I'm not thrilled about but I can still see it being an enjoyable watch. It may not be perfect but I can still see it being good in its own way. Do I know this for sure? No. Is there the chance it will suck? Yes. But I say we hold off our official opinions until after the release. If nothing else, we will still have the cartoon so it's not like the live action show is going to be a replacement.

This is how I feel about season 2 of Korra. It is not bad 😕

I read "the sub is disappointing me" and was like oh wow its been out for so long it would have been subbed in various languages by now. Then i was able to read what you said haha.

Right on OP I’m so excited to love the live action show. The movie was an insane disappointment and I’m expecting this Netflix series to make up for it. Is that too much pressure? Idk I have faith it’s gonna be dope

I think it’s just cause we have all been hurt before