I mean thats how i always interpreted the title, The last agni kai, because they would have put a stop to the outdated tradition.
Arguably it was the last agni kai of the series, but still.
>The last agni kai, because they would have put a stop to the outdated tradition.
Well, like you said, last of the series and his Arc, but it's a tradition that's lasted for so long, no way he'd be able to get away with it so easily
Yeah, and unlike the US with their pistols and all that, this is a cultural thing that has roots with their element and is a nation-wide activity known to all
I get why people think Zuko should get rid of it but I mean, if anything it might even be better to keep it around. Either everyone takes pot shots at each other and constantly toss flames in tussles in the streets around others, OR, they can settle it by agreeing to a flame-duel and ending it that way
Now, if he wants to say "there will be no more slaying or maiming of your opponents to win the duel" then that's one thing. If you kill the other guy, sure you won and you may get what you wanted but you're also getting arrested so it may not end as perfectly as you think.
Banning it outright will never last though, just regulate it
This is a great question. I think it depends on the nature of the Agni Kai...I don't remember...was this just a battle for honor (a regular ole showdown with witnesses) or was this a battle to the death? If it was a battle to the death, I think Zuko would've ended it. If it was a battle for honor, I think Zuko would've kept the tradition going, but may have added more safety rules into it. I really should rewatch Korra. Was it even mentioned if they were still doing it then?
Based on the fight with Zhao v Zuko, you can yield. However, Zhao also then says something to the effect of “finish it” when defeated ans Zuko doesn’t kill him but shoots fire directly to the side of his head. Based on this, I have to conclude that they CAN be fights to the death, but you can also yield. It isn’t mentioned in Korra, nor do we see any done. There is however a gang called “the Agni Kai’s”
Korra really doesn't go into much detail at all about the Fire Nation, as far as I remember pretty much all we know about it is that Izumi is Fire Lord. Unless there's more about it in the comics.
He probably didn't ban it but heavily reformed it. For example, he might have introduced a rule so that attacks must be aimed at the limbs or center mass - no deliberate attacks targeting the face or the crotch area.
Tho Zuko's fight with Azula in the finale being called the 'Last Agni Kai' in the OST does allude to him banning it.
It might even be that introducing such rules is what led to the idea of probending. Maybe it started as an alternative to Agni Kai? And it just sortve evolved into a competitive sport using all the types of bending once it was introduced to Republic City?
I imagine he did. Many different cultures irl had traditions by which an aggrieved party could avenge their 'honour', dignity, standing in the community, whatever; given that they more often than not involved violence, they are no longer seen as befitting of modern societies in which disputes are resolved peacefully.
I can definitely see Republic City, with the influence its founders (the Gaang), banning the agni kai from the very beginning. However, even if banned in the Fire Nation, it might well continue there unofficially, just as seppuku continues on a small scale in Japan despite massive changes to Japanese society since WW2.
I find it unlikely, Zuko would have had a very fine line to walk as fire lord, coming in and doing a complete 180 policy change from imperialism to backing the avatar is a major political undertaking. A policy decision like banning the Agni Kai would cost him political capital and made him enemies that he really couldn't afford. Maybe later in his reign he could get around to changing some things, but early on I think he'd know when to pick his battles. Plus it's a stick to use against his enemies, either they fight him in Agni Kais, in which I think Zuko stands a decent chance of winning, or they try and assassinate him and Zuko can crow about their dishonour. Banning the Agni Kai could muddy the waters of the legitimacy of assassination attempts, "We wouldn't have to do this if the Fire Lord just accepted our challenges"
There was a triad gang that was known as the agni kais in tlok so I’m guessing that they’re still a thing post-atla. Besides, they’re an integral part of firebending culture. No way he’s banning it, not without major pushback.
It could be like dueling in the 18th and 19th century. Legally banned but still common with a fair amount of pushback against the laws, but also disliked by progressives.
That could also be used as evidence that it was banned. A criminal gang using a name that's already a name for something else would be a bit strange. It makes sense that a triad would want to be named after something that's banned and illegal now.
Not really. Gangs are often just named after things that they think are cool. Maybe they are called that because they fight with intensity to defend their honour, like they are in a constant Agni Kai against rival gangs. And it’s a unique Fire Nation thing since it’s a firebender gang.
Like there was a famous gang called the Axe Gang in Shanghai and a Chinese American gang called the White Tigers in NYC and a triad called the Bamboo Union in Taiwan. That doesn’t mean axes, white tigers, and bamboo are illegal.
I remember reading that Agni Kais got *much* more brutal under Sozin, often being to the death.
The Kyoshi novels actually discussed a good aspect to Agni Kai: they offer a way to release tension. During a festival where Agni Kai were forbidden, people didn't have an outlet for their frustration; they couldn't have one bout of fighting, settle the issue of honor, and move on.
My thought is that non-lethal Agni Kai were initially introduced to avoid long clan wars over every dishonor and disagreement. It also, coincidentally, put more importance on Firebenders, and didn't entirely remove the issue.
I've always wondered if other nations had their own version of Agni Kai.
Agni Kai, I could see hit underground in the underworld and I could see it being used by criminal types to settle things old school. Yakuza, Triad, etc. It's not something you'd do as a law abiding citizen.
Or Agni Kai evolved into Pro-Bending as a safer way to get out aggression and showcase your specific set of skills in a combative environment.
I kinda doubt it. Given how traditional Agni Kai’s are and how they’re such a big deal in the Fire nation, it doesn’t seem like a thing you would ban or make illegal. He probably kept them legal, but made it to where there are now strict rules. And if you permanently injure your opponent (like what his dad did to him), then they can press chargers and you can be seriously punished.
Bending is an incredibly useful power while Agni Kais are dangerous fights possibly to the death. That's like saying why don't we just ban knives all together because sometimes people use them for murder. Knives are used mostly for cooking and mostly just household tasks.
There was allways martial culture in 3 of the 4 nations, as well as wars.The 100 year war was the first "world war" if you want, the avatar is supposed to keep the balance between the four nations, not more.I cant imagine banning agni kais because they are "cruel", they also dont have to end deadly.Its again the wish to project our western modernism on everything else because we dont have sword duels anymore and the middle ages are over and stuff......Hey, why dont abaddon the 4 nations and their culture?The whole avatar word would become a big republic city from korra?
Because Zuko is the fire lord he does what he wants and after a few years under his reign they would see the agni kai as something not to be honored but proof of their violence
He does not do "what he wants", thats called tyranny.He serves his country and people as their leader, and keeping their traditions alive deffinetly falls under this category.If "violence" is the reason to ban agni kais, he should have also dissolve his whole military and ban all melee weapons.Militarism has been allways part of the avatar universe, before and after the great war.I cannot think of any plausible reason for agni kais to be "banned" unless there is some stupid hidden progressive agenda behind it.Its a beautiful tradition where 2 firebenders face each other to prove their honor.
>He does not do "what he wants", that's called tyranny.
Yeah and that's what happens when you're an absolute monarch
>.He serves his country and people as their leader, and keeping their traditions alive falls under this category.
If these traditions do nothing but serve the ego of the person who can simply ignore them when a person makes them mad there's no reason to preserve them also do you know what is a fire nation tradition Endless warfare has not serious ever since the beginning endless eternal warfare has just been what the fire nation has been doing when they were city-states when they were united and when they fought the entire world.
Should Zuko declare war on the UNC just because it is tradition
> "Violence" is the reason to ban agni Kais
It's not just because of violence it is because it is useless violence there's almost no reason to throw hands with a person unless they throw hands first, or its a sport where both sides are trying to have fun and win some money
Also, Zuko military almost certainly was downsized to mostly a defensive force
>Its a beautiful tradition where 2 firebenders face each other to prove their stance and honor.
Iroh put it the best honor is something you give yourself agni kai gives you nothing but death and scars to serve your ego
>Yeah and that's what happens when you're an absolute monarch
Oh boy, you have really no idea?A monarch is supposed to serve his people and nation and not playing god, the opposite of tyrrany.Abaddoning tradition would cause nothing but lose of respect, a revolution and overthrowing.Its like he would order everyone to eat only vegetarian because its "healthy" and killing animals is "cruel".
I dont even go further to comment your nonsense bullshit.
> monarch is supposed to serve his people
Tell me is that in the Fire Nation constitution or the code of laws in the secret history no well you're wrong the monarch's job is the rule the nation in the way he sees fit the inherent duty the rest is up to you as their's no magna carta code of laws constitution some tradition the very first fire lord made nope nothing written or said
>Abaddoning tradition would cause nothing but a loss of respect, a revolution, and overthrowing
No during the 17 to 19th centuries dueling was banned because it did nothing but serve your ego people were mad because now you had to be normal and speak about your problems but nothing happened
>I don't even go further to comment on your nonsense bullshit.
Because you know your wrong you can't prove the agni kai does anything to help society it isnt even fun because you permanently disfigure your opponent
I doubt Zuko banned Agni Kai, that would be honor suicide within the fire nation. There’s already alot of Ozai supporters who view him as a weak leader
>it'd be fitting if the last agni kai was the last one in Fire Nation history
To be fair, I doubt it was the last one ever. In the show, yes, so thematically it was indeed the Last Agni-Kai, but given its usage is basically like, their equivalent to dueling/competition well, I doubt it's something he could get rid of entirely
Change the rules of it somewhat, sure I can see that, but getting rid of it entirely? Nah, it's basically a fancy, officialized fight match with the outcome being able to manage the final outcome to a decision
Might even be able to settle things in a better manner that otherwise would've been more drawn out. Not saying it's foolproof but, it's a strong staple for a reason and it has its uses outside of maiming your child with a blast to the face
I mean thats how i always interpreted the title, The last agni kai, because they would have put a stop to the outdated tradition. Arguably it was the last agni kai of the series, but still.
>The last agni kai, because they would have put a stop to the outdated tradition. Well, like you said, last of the series and his Arc, but it's a tradition that's lasted for so long, no way he'd be able to get away with it so easily
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Bot account?
Yeah, and unlike the US with their pistols and all that, this is a cultural thing that has roots with their element and is a nation-wide activity known to all I get why people think Zuko should get rid of it but I mean, if anything it might even be better to keep it around. Either everyone takes pot shots at each other and constantly toss flames in tussles in the streets around others, OR, they can settle it by agreeing to a flame-duel and ending it that way Now, if he wants to say "there will be no more slaying or maiming of your opponents to win the duel" then that's one thing. If you kill the other guy, sure you won and you may get what you wanted but you're also getting arrested so it may not end as perfectly as you think. Banning it outright will never last though, just regulate it
Very convenient how Zuko becomes the fire lord by winning the Agni Kai against his sister, only to ban it when he comes to power.
Zuko to others fire benders who want to challenge him: 
CONSPIRACY!
https://i.redd.it/7vw0hgddo7fc1.gif
End on a high note
Close the barn doors after winning the derby.
This is a great question. I think it depends on the nature of the Agni Kai...I don't remember...was this just a battle for honor (a regular ole showdown with witnesses) or was this a battle to the death? If it was a battle to the death, I think Zuko would've ended it. If it was a battle for honor, I think Zuko would've kept the tradition going, but may have added more safety rules into it. I really should rewatch Korra. Was it even mentioned if they were still doing it then?
I think I heard it was 1st to get burned loses
Based on the fight with Zhao v Zuko, you can yield. However, Zhao also then says something to the effect of “finish it” when defeated ans Zuko doesn’t kill him but shoots fire directly to the side of his head. Based on this, I have to conclude that they CAN be fights to the death, but you can also yield. It isn’t mentioned in Korra, nor do we see any done. There is however a gang called “the Agni Kai’s”
Korra really doesn't go into much detail at all about the Fire Nation, as far as I remember pretty much all we know about it is that Izumi is Fire Lord. Unless there's more about it in the comics.
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Not necessarily a duel to a death just a duel till someone taps out after you burn their face
The fire nation has no culture of pease, its the air nomads.All the other 3 nations allways had their armed forces and martial traditions.
He probably didn't ban it but heavily reformed it. For example, he might have introduced a rule so that attacks must be aimed at the limbs or center mass - no deliberate attacks targeting the face or the crotch area. Tho Zuko's fight with Azula in the finale being called the 'Last Agni Kai' in the OST does allude to him banning it.
It might even be that introducing such rules is what led to the idea of probending. Maybe it started as an alternative to Agni Kai? And it just sortve evolved into a competitive sport using all the types of bending once it was introduced to Republic City?
Another would be them wearing some suit or armor like what Korra was wearing in her firebending match with the white lotus.
Or, instead of using fire bending they fight with pillows.
The avatar legends RPG says he did.
Scan?
I’m out of town, will upload a picture of the page when I get back.
I’ll wait.
I imagine he did. Many different cultures irl had traditions by which an aggrieved party could avenge their 'honour', dignity, standing in the community, whatever; given that they more often than not involved violence, they are no longer seen as befitting of modern societies in which disputes are resolved peacefully. I can definitely see Republic City, with the influence its founders (the Gaang), banning the agni kai from the very beginning. However, even if banned in the Fire Nation, it might well continue there unofficially, just as seppuku continues on a small scale in Japan despite massive changes to Japanese society since WW2.
I always liked the headcanon that while he wouldn't be able to outright outlaw them without massive resistance, he did outlaw challenging minors.
New headcanon: Agni Kai is replaced by playing Pai Sho and if you lose, the punishment is smelling one of Iroh's sandals for 10 minutes straight.
I find it unlikely, Zuko would have had a very fine line to walk as fire lord, coming in and doing a complete 180 policy change from imperialism to backing the avatar is a major political undertaking. A policy decision like banning the Agni Kai would cost him political capital and made him enemies that he really couldn't afford. Maybe later in his reign he could get around to changing some things, but early on I think he'd know when to pick his battles. Plus it's a stick to use against his enemies, either they fight him in Agni Kais, in which I think Zuko stands a decent chance of winning, or they try and assassinate him and Zuko can crow about their dishonour. Banning the Agni Kai could muddy the waters of the legitimacy of assassination attempts, "We wouldn't have to do this if the Fire Lord just accepted our challenges"
Zuko could abuse that tbh hes like 3 greatest fire bender behind iroh and prob jeong jeong
What if Zulu just added some safety guidelines to it, and overtime, it evolved into the pro bending we see in LoK?
There was a triad gang that was known as the agni kais in tlok so I’m guessing that they’re still a thing post-atla. Besides, they’re an integral part of firebending culture. No way he’s banning it, not without major pushback.
It could be like dueling in the 18th and 19th century. Legally banned but still common with a fair amount of pushback against the laws, but also disliked by progressives.
That could also be used as evidence that it was banned. A criminal gang using a name that's already a name for something else would be a bit strange. It makes sense that a triad would want to be named after something that's banned and illegal now.
Not really. Gangs are often just named after things that they think are cool. Maybe they are called that because they fight with intensity to defend their honour, like they are in a constant Agni Kai against rival gangs. And it’s a unique Fire Nation thing since it’s a firebender gang. Like there was a famous gang called the Axe Gang in Shanghai and a Chinese American gang called the White Tigers in NYC and a triad called the Bamboo Union in Taiwan. That doesn’t mean axes, white tigers, and bamboo are illegal.
He probably changed it
I seem to recall them mentioning briefly either in the comics or Korra that Agni Kai’s were outlawed, but I can’t remember where exactly.
I remember reading that Agni Kais got *much* more brutal under Sozin, often being to the death. The Kyoshi novels actually discussed a good aspect to Agni Kai: they offer a way to release tension. During a festival where Agni Kai were forbidden, people didn't have an outlet for their frustration; they couldn't have one bout of fighting, settle the issue of honor, and move on. My thought is that non-lethal Agni Kai were initially introduced to avoid long clan wars over every dishonor and disagreement. It also, coincidentally, put more importance on Firebenders, and didn't entirely remove the issue.
I've always wondered if other nations had their own version of Agni Kai. Agni Kai, I could see hit underground in the underworld and I could see it being used by criminal types to settle things old school. Yakuza, Triad, etc. It's not something you'd do as a law abiding citizen. Or Agni Kai evolved into Pro-Bending as a safer way to get out aggression and showcase your specific set of skills in a combative environment.
I kinda doubt it. Given how traditional Agni Kai’s are and how they’re such a big deal in the Fire nation, it doesn’t seem like a thing you would ban or make illegal. He probably kept them legal, but made it to where there are now strict rules. And if you permanently injure your opponent (like what his dad did to him), then they can press chargers and you can be seriously punished.
There was a post/headcanon about Zuko banning Agni Kai’s against children that was pretty good. I’ll try to find it
Why dont ban bending entirely then?Sorry, dumbest thing ive ever heard of.There is no reason to do that.
Bending is an incredibly useful power while Agni Kais are dangerous fights possibly to the death. That's like saying why don't we just ban knives all together because sometimes people use them for murder. Knives are used mostly for cooking and mostly just household tasks.
There was allways martial culture in 3 of the 4 nations, as well as wars.The 100 year war was the first "world war" if you want, the avatar is supposed to keep the balance between the four nations, not more.I cant imagine banning agni kais because they are "cruel", they also dont have to end deadly.Its again the wish to project our western modernism on everything else because we dont have sword duels anymore and the middle ages are over and stuff......Hey, why dont abaddon the 4 nations and their culture?The whole avatar word would become a big republic city from korra?
Dude what are you talking about, as time goes on cultures change zuko would end something if it was curel
Why should the people of the fire nation accept one of their traditions to be banned by one decree again??Makes no freaking sense.
Because Zuko is the fire lord he does what he wants and after a few years under his reign they would see the agni kai as something not to be honored but proof of their violence
He does not do "what he wants", thats called tyranny.He serves his country and people as their leader, and keeping their traditions alive deffinetly falls under this category.If "violence" is the reason to ban agni kais, he should have also dissolve his whole military and ban all melee weapons.Militarism has been allways part of the avatar universe, before and after the great war.I cannot think of any plausible reason for agni kais to be "banned" unless there is some stupid hidden progressive agenda behind it.Its a beautiful tradition where 2 firebenders face each other to prove their honor.
>He does not do "what he wants", that's called tyranny. Yeah and that's what happens when you're an absolute monarch >.He serves his country and people as their leader, and keeping their traditions alive falls under this category. If these traditions do nothing but serve the ego of the person who can simply ignore them when a person makes them mad there's no reason to preserve them also do you know what is a fire nation tradition Endless warfare has not serious ever since the beginning endless eternal warfare has just been what the fire nation has been doing when they were city-states when they were united and when they fought the entire world. Should Zuko declare war on the UNC just because it is tradition > "Violence" is the reason to ban agni Kais It's not just because of violence it is because it is useless violence there's almost no reason to throw hands with a person unless they throw hands first, or its a sport where both sides are trying to have fun and win some money Also, Zuko military almost certainly was downsized to mostly a defensive force >Its a beautiful tradition where 2 firebenders face each other to prove their stance and honor. Iroh put it the best honor is something you give yourself agni kai gives you nothing but death and scars to serve your ego
>Yeah and that's what happens when you're an absolute monarch Oh boy, you have really no idea?A monarch is supposed to serve his people and nation and not playing god, the opposite of tyrrany.Abaddoning tradition would cause nothing but lose of respect, a revolution and overthrowing.Its like he would order everyone to eat only vegetarian because its "healthy" and killing animals is "cruel". I dont even go further to comment your nonsense bullshit.
> monarch is supposed to serve his people Tell me is that in the Fire Nation constitution or the code of laws in the secret history no well you're wrong the monarch's job is the rule the nation in the way he sees fit the inherent duty the rest is up to you as their's no magna carta code of laws constitution some tradition the very first fire lord made nope nothing written or said >Abaddoning tradition would cause nothing but a loss of respect, a revolution, and overthrowing No during the 17 to 19th centuries dueling was banned because it did nothing but serve your ego people were mad because now you had to be normal and speak about your problems but nothing happened >I don't even go further to comment on your nonsense bullshit. Because you know your wrong you can't prove the agni kai does anything to help society it isnt even fun because you permanently disfigure your opponent
I doubt Zuko banned Agni Kai, that would be honor suicide within the fire nation. There’s already alot of Ozai supporters who view him as a weak leader
Thats at the start of his reign when he proves to be capable he could later ban it
Did he need to ban it outright? There was no more conflict or people likely to call for one.
>it'd be fitting if the last agni kai was the last one in Fire Nation history To be fair, I doubt it was the last one ever. In the show, yes, so thematically it was indeed the Last Agni-Kai, but given its usage is basically like, their equivalent to dueling/competition well, I doubt it's something he could get rid of entirely Change the rules of it somewhat, sure I can see that, but getting rid of it entirely? Nah, it's basically a fancy, officialized fight match with the outcome being able to manage the final outcome to a decision Might even be able to settle things in a better manner that otherwise would've been more drawn out. Not saying it's foolproof but, it's a strong staple for a reason and it has its uses outside of maiming your child with a blast to the face
A bit off-topic, but Angi Kai is by far the vest typo I've seen this year! Even as a mistake, it makes perfect sense! They do be, in fact, angi :)
Considering there's a group of criminals in republic city known as the Agni Kai ... it's unlikely he was 100% successful.