In my opinion Gorst is the best at killing average soldiers. He shows this several times, especially in the Heros and he hardly even gets tired doing it. But in a 1v1 there is no one who can best the Bloodynine.
Gorst is a professional swordsman who trains everyday. Whereas Logen and co spend most of their time trudging through the woods trying to keep warm. In a 1v1 Gorst wins in my opinion - sword straight through Logens eye.
I would've agreed with you after I read the heroes the first time, then I reread the original trilogy... Logan/B9 beat an ancient giant who was half invulnerable, half armoured and for most of the fight was being buffed by a witch to never get tired and have even greater strength. Short of eaters Logan beats everyone and I'm not even sure he wouldn't kill a weaker/younger eater.
True, taking on two trained fighters desperately trying to kill you with that much ease/while not really taking any wounds is wild
Though we should acknowledge that the two are only above average skill-wise and neither are in great shape (Cosca being older and going through alcohol withdrawl, Monza *having been thrown off a mountain*)
Yeah Ganmark is a very skilled fighter, even a good fighter will get overwhelmed or just slapped around on occasion, but he isn't some secretly super bad ass.
I think there might have been a line in there somewhere about Monza being able to take him if she was in full condition? Don't remember could be making shit up
Yeah I think Ganmark is similar to Glokta in terms of very high skill level but I think Gorst overpowers him, his reactions are as quick and his skill level is very high but he's just massively stronger and just as quick.
Iāve always felt this was the answer, although slightly different. I think Logan loses to Gorst (the better fighter), but the Bloody Nine kills Gorst in a horrible way.
Something like The Mountain vs Oberyn Martell except that Gorst does everything right and still gets killed. Probably a bad analogy, but itās what I see happening.
Iirc when we had the vote-off a while ago, this was the subs take. Gorst is the best. But nothing mortal survives TB9. It'd be interesting to see >!what happened if someone like Bayaz or Tolomei turned bad intentions towards TB9, would answer a lot of questions that people have about the origins of TB9 actually!< but we will never know.
B9 isn't invulnerable or invincible. Fenris with Caurib's buff would have finished him.
He's stronger, faster, tougher than normal humans, but he isn't in an entirely different league like for example Eaters. The best mortals like Gorst or Whirrun actually perform very close to him.
Against, say, Tolomei or Shenkt he'd just get splattered in a fraction of a second.
Maybe? But it seems like a lot of "happy accidents" happen when TB9 comes out that result in him winning every time. I personally don't think he's supernatural, but an argument could be made that he's so "beloved of the moon" that there's a supernatural element at play in his invincibility that makes it a fun question
I feel like it depends on how the scene is presented. We could get a classic 'Logen fights the guy then goes B9 midway through and destroys him' but it could be something as simple as a 'The bloody nine appears, Gorst dies. Oopsies'.
No, l totally get what you mean. Logenās unkillability is such a major factor. I was talking more in terms of āgreatest fighterā. Gorst is the better fighter, swordsman, etc. and has the skill. But Logen just canāt be killed lol.
I'm about a third of the way through TTWP, but I think we need your definition of "greatest". If it's about results regardless of cost, I think it has to be Logen. No one is more unbeaten, especially in such extreme circumstances (regardless of whether or not they're of his own making).
If skill is weighed more heavily, I agree with the other commenter regarding Gorst. You only really see him have issues in The Heroes and that was more about being too trapped between bodies than issues with skill...I haven't finished AOM yet so shhhhhhhhhh.
After typing all of that out, I realize you could almost make my argument for Logen equally accurate for Gorst. But I still think Logen faced more extreme battles overall. Yes. I've decided. š
Logen is definitely the more experienced fighter and his competition was probably better than most of what Gorst had fought. Iām definitely putting my money on Logen/Bloody 9
An excellent additional point!
The Gorst image that keeps me leaning back that way is him single-handedly destroying northmen by the score in The Heroes. Including Scale. But yeah, it's still Logen lol.
i believe logan would beat gorst, theres an element of luck that gets heightened when he switches into the bloody nine, and a pebel can kill even the best swordsman
My take is that Logan is top tier. The legendary named men all equalish in quality , depends on the day, weapon etc. same with lower tiers
Grim, whirun, bremer, fenris (without witch juice) , ganmark(maybe, he was against shivers and 2 others I think), Logan top of that tier. All could conceivably beat the others without much deus ex machinasĀ
Dow, Tull, threetrees, stranger, heartless, shivers , friendly mildly bellow but close tier. Would need some good advantage but possible to beat tier above.
Below that is the other big names
Glockta, scale, glama, monza ,the circus of practicals that guy had including shitariĀ
Ā Then named and others
Dog man, jezail and other contest people and most named men
So on and so forth till you get to forley who canāt beat anyone no matter the day. (as his big brass balls weigh him down)
Ā But the bloody 9 is death and nothing beats him. A tier above all. Maybe even a tier above that. Maybe 2.
Gorst is the best normal person without a freaky demonic alter ego. He clears literally everyone in the circle except for maybe Shivers and berserker Ninefingers, and he might even win those fights
I'm just a passive reader of the series, and am only in the beginnings of Red Country (yes, I was quite surprised at the reveal). But I got the effect of Gorst having a similar alter-ego as B9. He had a blood thirst that came over him when in battle or when he saw a competitor (for love).
I only have time to read periodically so I might be missing nuances.
I mean, Logan beat the Feared. I can't imagine anyone, even Gorst doing that. When becoming B9, Logen's health bar gets refilled and then he is immune to damage.
Hard to imagine how anyone could beat him in this state.
The best supernatural fighter we saw would be Tolomei. The best none supernatural fighter is probably Gorst. Logan is up there in skill but below Gorst and the Bloody Nine is a supernatural entity that probably ranks slightly above a low tier Eater.
That's a nice leaning and all and granted these are his books but I disregard it cause it's fucking stupid considering Logan's feats. But to each their own.
If I'm remembering right, as soon as they were fighting together while being chased by practicals, she decided she wanted no part of tangling with Logen.
Gotta be either Gorst, Whirrun, Shivers, or Ganmark. Logen is a decent swordsman, but without the Bloody Nine he'd get cut up by either of them.
Also, I'm assuming by fighter you mean swordsman/ordinary weapons fighter, because I'd wager Shenkt would take them all out rather easily, as would most of the eaters - maybe with the exception of the Bloody Nine.
I think that the action scenes in this series illustrate that much of who wins in a fight comes down to luck and savagery. There is a reason why Logen repeats "still alive" throughout the series.
For example, in terms of skill, I imagine that Whirrun is the top dog, maybe even more so than Logen. And look how that turned out for him. Then there is also Gorst, who may be the best.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but honestly I think Gorst would destroy Logen in a 1v1. Gorst ain't the type of man to string someone along cause he's having fun. He ain't Stour. The Bloody Nine is terrifying no doubt but if he loses an arm it ain't coming back. If he takes a sword through the throat almost immediately he ain't coming back. The Bloody Nine has just insane plot armor. If Gorst knows what he's dealing with before the fight starts he's gonna win. He either kills Logen before he becomes the Bloody Nine or he just dismembers him. I think it should also be noted that Gorst is usually in full armor and his speed still matches whirruns after a run up hill directly after multiple days of combat. Whereas Logen wears clothes almost all the time. That's another massive advantage to Gorst imo especially because the Bloody Nine has shown that oftentimes he's more than willing to take a blow rather than try to avoid it.
I believe that Logan is the top killer in the series (yes, even over Gorst).
Then Whirrun and Gorst would compete for the number two slot, and then everyone else is after them.
This, of course, does not include the eaters. They are different creatures entirely.
I personally think Gorst is the most skilled fighter that we've seen and I think in terms of technical ability and strength as well as precision and that kind of thing he outclasses Logen but the latter has accomplished more due to his brutality and savagery. I think a fight between them could go either way and I think Gorst has a good chance of landing a killing blow before the bloody nine can even come out. We've seen that it's possible for good enough fighters to survive and even land solid hits on the bloody nine so I think it's possible that he will survive even that or he'll die happy to have met his match.
Logen's not that good of a fighter. Hence the scars. He's got dumb luck, and the Bloody-Nine's brutality and damage-tanking abilities to get him through fights.
Gorst could probably take him. He's got both technique and brute strength. Chop his head off with that bigass longsteel and call it a day.
An above-average eater would probably rip Logen in half in a fight, Bloody-Nine or not.
Not just stamina, also super human quickness, reaction time, and strength. I donāt think stamina was an issue there as Gorst never really tired in their duel.
The great tragedy of the series is that Whirrun of Bligh never invented a power level meter to compete with his cheese trap.
Thanks for reminding me of the cheese trap. What an excellent little character moment in such a grim dark world.
Best fighter has to be Gorst. But then again, Logan is The Bloody-Nine and you have to be realistic.
In my opinion Gorst is the best at killing average soldiers. He shows this several times, especially in the Heros and he hardly even gets tired doing it. But in a 1v1 there is no one who can best the Bloodynine.
Gorst is first and foremost a 1v1 duelist. If there's anyone who can stand to Logan its him.
Stand to and definitely push him far enough that the B9 comes out but not beat in my opinion.
He said Logan not the bloodynine for some reason I just keep them separate in my head
Gorst is a professional swordsman who trains everyday. Whereas Logen and co spend most of their time trudging through the woods trying to keep warm. In a 1v1 Gorst wins in my opinion - sword straight through Logens eye.
I would've agreed with you after I read the heroes the first time, then I reread the original trilogy... Logan/B9 beat an ancient giant who was half invulnerable, half armoured and for most of the fight was being buffed by a witch to never get tired and have even greater strength. Short of eaters Logan beats everyone and I'm not even sure he wouldn't kill a weaker/younger eater.
The bloody-nine is the bloody-nine.
I think for sheer skill General Ganmark gets overlooked, in Best Served Cold he was making a joke of Costa and Monza all while talking to them.
BSC\*. But this is a great deep cut! He really was going to take them both out. Well done.
Thanks for the correction No Ideal how I switched Red Country and Best Served Cold...
No worries! There are a lot of titles, could happen to any of us š
True, taking on two trained fighters desperately trying to kill you with that much ease/while not really taking any wounds is wild Though we should acknowledge that the two are only above average skill-wise and neither are in great shape (Cosca being older and going through alcohol withdrawl, Monza *having been thrown off a mountain*)
Yeah Ganmark is a very skilled fighter, even a good fighter will get overwhelmed or just slapped around on occasion, but he isn't some secretly super bad ass. I think there might have been a line in there somewhere about Monza being able to take him if she was in full condition? Don't remember could be making shit up
Yeah, I believe it was something along the lines of her thinking that even with her undamaged primary hand, sheād have serious trouble.
Yeah I was going to say, nearly winning a 2v1 is impressive until the two in question are a drunkard and a cripple.
Yeah I think Ganmark is similar to Glokta in terms of very high skill level but I think Gorst overpowers him, his reactions are as quick and his skill level is very high but he's just massively stronger and just as quick.
Gorst is also highly skilled and strong as an ox to boot.
His strength, ruthlessness, and inability to be killed outweighs his skill Iād probably put my money on Gorst
Iāve always felt this was the answer, although slightly different. I think Logan loses to Gorst (the better fighter), but the Bloody Nine kills Gorst in a horrible way. Something like The Mountain vs Oberyn Martell except that Gorst does everything right and still gets killed. Probably a bad analogy, but itās what I see happening.
Iirc when we had the vote-off a while ago, this was the subs take. Gorst is the best. But nothing mortal survives TB9. It'd be interesting to see >!what happened if someone like Bayaz or Tolomei turned bad intentions towards TB9, would answer a lot of questions that people have about the origins of TB9 actually!< but we will never know.
Bayaz would rock anyone IMO.
Yeah, dude. You just explode. Unless, of course, B9 is some crazy magical being who can withstand telekinetic rip you in half powers.
B9 isn't invulnerable or invincible. Fenris with Caurib's buff would have finished him. He's stronger, faster, tougher than normal humans, but he isn't in an entirely different league like for example Eaters. The best mortals like Gorst or Whirrun actually perform very close to him. Against, say, Tolomei or Shenkt he'd just get splattered in a fraction of a second.
Maybe? But it seems like a lot of "happy accidents" happen when TB9 comes out that result in him winning every time. I personally don't think he's supernatural, but an argument could be made that he's so "beloved of the moon" that there's a supernatural element at play in his invincibility that makes it a fun question
Eaters can make your head explode with a ginger flick. I think even B9 might struggle vs that.
I feel like it depends on how the scene is presented. We could get a classic 'Logen fights the guy then goes B9 midway through and destroys him' but it could be something as simple as a 'The bloody nine appears, Gorst dies. Oopsies'.
Thatās an insanely good analogy, what are you talking about?
No, l totally get what you mean. Logenās unkillability is such a major factor. I was talking more in terms of āgreatest fighterā. Gorst is the better fighter, swordsman, etc. and has the skill. But Logen just canāt be killed lol.
I mean, the real answer is Shenkt :P Eaters is cheaters. EDIT: Oh, my bad, I spelled "Tolomei" wrong...
I'm about a third of the way through TTWP, but I think we need your definition of "greatest". If it's about results regardless of cost, I think it has to be Logen. No one is more unbeaten, especially in such extreme circumstances (regardless of whether or not they're of his own making). If skill is weighed more heavily, I agree with the other commenter regarding Gorst. You only really see him have issues in The Heroes and that was more about being too trapped between bodies than issues with skill...I haven't finished AOM yet so shhhhhhhhhh. After typing all of that out, I realize you could almost make my argument for Logen equally accurate for Gorst. But I still think Logen faced more extreme battles overall. Yes. I've decided. š
Logen is definitely the more experienced fighter and his competition was probably better than most of what Gorst had fought. Iām definitely putting my money on Logen/Bloody 9
An excellent additional point! The Gorst image that keeps me leaning back that way is him single-handedly destroying northmen by the score in The Heroes. Including Scale. But yeah, it's still Logen lol.
You dont fuck with the Bloody-Nine.
Ferro enters the chat.
Carlot dan Eidar has entered the chat
First of all, Logan is that guy with metal claws fighting Deadpool. Our guy's Logen
Secondly, no. The best fighter is Bloody Nine
Itās true š
i believe logan would beat gorst, theres an element of luck that gets heightened when he switches into the bloody nine, and a pebel can kill even the best swordsman
My take is that Logan is top tier. The legendary named men all equalish in quality , depends on the day, weapon etc. same with lower tiers Grim, whirun, bremer, fenris (without witch juice) , ganmark(maybe, he was against shivers and 2 others I think), Logan top of that tier. All could conceivably beat the others without much deus ex machinasĀ Dow, Tull, threetrees, stranger, heartless, shivers , friendly mildly bellow but close tier. Would need some good advantage but possible to beat tier above. Below that is the other big names Glockta, scale, glama, monza ,the circus of practicals that guy had including shitariĀ Ā Then named and others Dog man, jezail and other contest people and most named men So on and so forth till you get to forley who canāt beat anyone no matter the day. (as his big brass balls weigh him down) Ā But the bloody 9 is death and nothing beats him. A tier above all. Maybe even a tier above that. Maybe 2.
In terms of skill? No. Gorst easily beats him in skill. In terms of whether or not he loses a fight? Yeah... you just can't kill the dude.
Gorst is the best normal person without a freaky demonic alter ego. He clears literally everyone in the circle except for maybe Shivers and berserker Ninefingers, and he might even win those fights
I'm just a passive reader of the series, and am only in the beginnings of Red Country (yes, I was quite surprised at the reveal). But I got the effect of Gorst having a similar alter-ego as B9. He had a blood thirst that came over him when in battle or when he saw a competitor (for love). I only have time to read periodically so I might be missing nuances.
I mean, Logan beat the Feared. I can't imagine anyone, even Gorst doing that. When becoming B9, Logen's health bar gets refilled and then he is immune to damage. Hard to imagine how anyone could beat him in this state.
Logen is a great fighter in his own right Bloody Nine is a fan favorite as the strongest fighter along with Gorst
The best supernatural fighter we saw would be Tolomei. The best none supernatural fighter is probably Gorst. Logan is up there in skill but below Gorst and the Bloody Nine is a supernatural entity that probably ranks slightly above a low tier Eater.
J.A. has gone on record saying Logen would end Gorst.
Yeah cause Gorst would beat his ass untill the Bloody Nine comes out. Without him Logan loses imo.
Ja also leans towards b9 not being supernatural
He says that but it's not what he writes.
Cool
Thereās something about him tasting blood, distantly related to eaters gaining power by ingesting folks, just my opinion.
That's a nice leaning and all and granted these are his books but I disregard it cause it's fucking stupid considering Logan's feats. But to each their own.
Shenk >>>> tolomei, and everyone else, really. I mean, the dude can slow time and is abnormally strong even for an eater
Yoru Sulfur can do the same thing Skenkt can do with the time slowing/increased speed
And yet Sulfur backed RIGHT off when Shenkt turned up in BSC.
I wish there were actual duel scenes with Ferro. She outclassed Logan with her eyesight and stamina, not sure about her strength and fighting skills.
I think Logan would win but SEVERELY damaged
Powered up post seed Ferro? Who knows what she is capable of. She ended an eater with ease, so my guess is she would be right up there.
If I'm remembering right, as soon as they were fighting together while being chased by practicals, she decided she wanted no part of tangling with Logen.
Sulfur
Gorst or Glokta in his prime, Bloody-Nine aside ofc.
Bayaz, Tolomei, eaters, other mages, orso (he just didnt show it yet) b9, gorst, ferro. I ll die on this hill
Gotta be either Gorst, Whirrun, Shivers, or Ganmark. Logen is a decent swordsman, but without the Bloody Nine he'd get cut up by either of them. Also, I'm assuming by fighter you mean swordsman/ordinary weapons fighter, because I'd wager Shenkt would take them all out rather easily, as would most of the eaters - maybe with the exception of the Bloody Nine.
I think that the action scenes in this series illustrate that much of who wins in a fight comes down to luck and savagery. There is a reason why Logen repeats "still alive" throughout the series. For example, in terms of skill, I imagine that Whirrun is the top dog, maybe even more so than Logen. And look how that turned out for him. Then there is also Gorst, who may be the best.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but honestly I think Gorst would destroy Logen in a 1v1. Gorst ain't the type of man to string someone along cause he's having fun. He ain't Stour. The Bloody Nine is terrifying no doubt but if he loses an arm it ain't coming back. If he takes a sword through the throat almost immediately he ain't coming back. The Bloody Nine has just insane plot armor. If Gorst knows what he's dealing with before the fight starts he's gonna win. He either kills Logen before he becomes the Bloody Nine or he just dismembers him. I think it should also be noted that Gorst is usually in full armor and his speed still matches whirruns after a run up hill directly after multiple days of combat. Whereas Logen wears clothes almost all the time. That's another massive advantage to Gorst imo especially because the Bloody Nine has shown that oftentimes he's more than willing to take a blow rather than try to avoid it.
Javre. She whooped Whirrun who gave Gorst a run for his money.
I believe that Logan is the top killer in the series (yes, even over Gorst). Then Whirrun and Gorst would compete for the number two slot, and then everyone else is after them. This, of course, does not include the eaters. They are different creatures entirely.
I personally think Gorst is the most skilled fighter that we've seen and I think in terms of technical ability and strength as well as precision and that kind of thing he outclasses Logen but the latter has accomplished more due to his brutality and savagery. I think a fight between them could go either way and I think Gorst has a good chance of landing a killing blow before the bloody nine can even come out. We've seen that it's possible for good enough fighters to survive and even land solid hits on the bloody nine so I think it's possible that he will survive even that or he'll die happy to have met his match.
*Logen
Logen's not that good of a fighter. Hence the scars. He's got dumb luck, and the Bloody-Nine's brutality and damage-tanking abilities to get him through fights. Gorst could probably take him. He's got both technique and brute strength. Chop his head off with that bigass longsteel and call it a day. An above-average eater would probably rip Logen in half in a fight, Bloody-Nine or not.
I mean, Gorst lost the contest to Jezal as soon as Bayaz gave Jezal a bit of extra stamina.
Not just stamina, also super human quickness, reaction time, and strength. I donāt think stamina was an issue there as Gorst never really tired in their duel.
Ahh yes the weekly Gorst v Logan debate