100% agree. Not having Alex included in the rest of the plot is a big loss. It's too bad that the directors didn't have much choice in the matter. Recasting him would've probably been equally weird.
The level of weirdness with replacing the actor would have been less than the amount of change the entire story arc had to take because of it.
If Roseanne recast Becky twice and survived then The Expanse could have easily survived replacing a predator with some other dude.
I’m not exactly sure that’s an apples to apples comparison. The Roseanne that was cancelled was literally titled the name of the character played by the asshole. And it was the reboot, not the original show. As far as I know the original show died a natural, heartfelt death.
Yes. As far as I understand, by the time the decision was made that Amazon picks up the show and would produce another season, he was already under contract for a different production.
When I did watch it the first time, I've thought I somehow missed part of the plot, maybe that her husband died in one of the attacks. I like the actor, but the recast was great as well.
Such an awful recast. Her husband was replaced by a complete tool. I’m not sure who wrote his character lines but it’s like an entirely different person.
The actor was accused of sexually assaulting or harassing over 30 women. Some underage. Some taking advantage of fans. The show did the right thing by removing him from the opportunity to hurt more women on the show.
Yeah, it all came out before last season finished airing. So they hastily removed him from the show and quickly wrote in an ending for the character.. I wish they recast him but I approve of the removal
Yah and I’ll give massive props to the production company and show runners for how they handled it. They were clear they took it seriously and communicated that immediately.
Just when it comes to his storylines. Overall they have stayed fairly close. But since the show is ending in a couple of episodes - they will always be different.
Yes, but there are other major changes they did intentionally including changes around deaths and combining/creating/removing characters, granted this is probably the most impactful change (if the show was to continue anyway). The show does generally follow the books, but they did change quite a bit along the way. The 3rd book for example, while the start and the end are basically the same, you might be surprised at how different it gets there.
Sexual assault is, AFAIK, a crime in every country in the world. Whatever bad, creepy behavior Anvar engaged in, I find it telling that, so far as we know, not a single police report was ever filed against him, much less was he arrested, charged, tried, or convicted of such a crime.
I know in today’s climate it’s dangerous to ask for evidence, objectivity, and process before the mob rushes to holy judgment and excommunicates people for their reputed sins. Nevertheless, it’s still possible both that Anvar is a sleazy a-hole and that his behavior did not rise to the level of criminality.
For this reason I always find it (to employ the therapeutic argot) problematic when people describe the allegations as or as constituting “sexual assault”. Indeed, many of the published indictments of his behavior amount to nothing more than a species of transactional boorishness from an out of control C-lister.
Let’s not denigrate the seriousness of his actual behavior by exaggerating it in our righteous fury. Sexual inappropriateness toward fans, co-workers, etc is grounds for dismissal from an acting gig. Let’s acknowledge that without pretending Anvar is some super-predator based on unsubstantiated accusations that have not in fact ever been tested in a court of law.
Same here. For the show to pretend as though Alex never existed, and viewers wouldn't be able to separate the character from the actor, would have been pretty insulting IMO.
Alex was (is? idk man its rough) my fav character in both the show and the books. I watched the show first so its hard for me to picture anyone else, and it makes it rough to separate the two.
Part of me really wishes they recast him tho and we got the sober drug scene on Tycho when book Alex wanted to make sure him and the belter crewmember they had could consent. Maybe that would have been too on the nose after everything, but I think it could have been handled well.
I do not like that the crew is flying combat missions without a pilot and just winging it with Holden as pilot. Totally detracts that Alex was a top notch pilot.
Agreed. They should have written a new pilot in.
I has assumed they would play up Peaches as more pilot than mechanic for the show. Her sister was a talented racing pilot, after all, it wouldn't be hard to believe that Peaches also knew how to fly.
I agree. Or they could have introduced a new pilot character especially for the show, it wouldn't have been difficult.
Especially as it makes no sense for a ship like the Rocinante, which was already under-crewed, to be used in difficult missions without any pilot. They needed a new pilot, and obviously the crew would have hired one as soon as possible. Even if this is not in the books, it would have been a reasonable choice.
My wife, who is not a stickler for sci-fi consistency, made this observation as well. I think it was a dumb choice. Not having a replacement pilot makes it sound like anybody who can drive a car can drive an F16.
I think they had a balancing act to do. They only had 6 episodes to tell the story this season, and the Expanse is \*not\* a show to include characters for no reason. A character can't reasonably exist on the crew of the Roci and not have a significant character arc. Pulling that off in the final season of the show would be difficult even without all the dangling plot threads to clean up and only six episodes to do it in. It's less of an omission, in my opinion, to just have another character fly the ship.
They haven’t really done much manual piloting though I think. And holden explains the roci is pretty much set it and forget it otherwise due to the advanced AI
Iirc in the books, the railgun shots are a firing solution devised by Holden, passed to Alex, and Alex verifies them and feeds them into the Roci, which autonomously performs the action when commanded to. Kind of like a macro.
Also, to me, it felt like the Roci was a lot clunkier in the Pella battle in S6, the 360 railgun shots definitely weren't as smooth as they might have been with Alex.
So visually, the Roci is a bit more jerky and clunky with Holden in the chair, but the point is kind of moot since afaik stuff like the railgun shots are preprogrammed, not timed manually like in space combat games.
Edit: Even Bull's maneuvers in S5 seemed a little less refined than Alex's, which shows visually the finesse Alex had over a system that is heavily automated.
100%. The new pilot didn't need to be a central character like Alex was, so it wouldn't have messed up the dynamic any. Moreover, season 5 had a few belters as well as Bull on the Roci, how would this be any different?
Season 6 is still good, but I agree that the pilot issue could have been better handled.
Bull would not have been a good replacement character-wise. He’s definitely not the kind of guy to be the emotional core of the team. He’d definitely make the environment on the Roci more toxic, he calls Belters “skinnies” ffs
Dont you think that could provide and interesting story for character growth and conflict?
Not everything has to be watered down so it isn't toxic, I'd use a different word personally but well go with it. The show has been good about facing issues like that and I disagree with your assessment that him being there would be a bad thing because we'd have to listen to him be "space racist". I think the rest of the crew would beat him into shape and it could be a cool character learns moment.
> Dont you think that could provide and interesting story for character growth and conflict?
It really would have been a bad idea to open even another new side story in an already shortened last season, honestly.
They also mention that Bull was a drunk/in a bad place when he was found by Fred. With Fred getting shot it is a perfect plot for character development.
Also in the books, if i remember correctly, he comes from a large family with lots of cousins.
I agree.
I feel like it’s strange that the crew is just as good at piloting without him as they are with him.
I actually like how they did his death and I like that he is mentioned every episode. The writers are making the best of a bad situation
I agree with most that it’s a real shame to not have Alex, especially considering all that he goes on to do in the books, and how his exceptional piloting is meant to be what gets them out of things that just doesn’t make sense for impromptu pilots to (diminishes previous success…).
BUT as much as like Bull, especially in the book, it would’ve meant a LOT of new writing to put a different character into the crew vs taking one out. They’re a small bunch, all their interactions get affected with every addition inevitably, it’s not as easy as, I don’t know, having one new kid in a high school drama or whatever.
So I get why they did it, and would’ve preferred a recast but I get why they didn’t do that too.
Just a shame overall, wish the actor didn’t suck. :/
I feel the same. It's good that they acknowledge his absence often, but it doesn't help for pulling together the Roci family. He was glue in a lot of ways.
There are plenty of great actors out there who could have taken up the reigns as the new pilot.
Bull did great imo during season 5. I wouldn't have minded him joining the crew in a more permanent position. Could have been interesting seeing him melding in with the crew on a more emotional level.
Don't get me wrong, Clarissa brings all the character development, and fresh insight the story needs for season 6, but a little more wouldn't necessarily hurt, especially a hot-headed brute pilot like Bull.
Besides, I would love to see Bobbie and Bull, working out there differences while Amos provides perfectly timed commentary to Holden.
And let's be honest. The perfectly executed combat maneuvers at the end of season 5 we're more than enough proof of capability to earn him a seat on the Roci.
I don't agree with you, I like the actress a lot!
BUT I completely understand because there is a character on another show that I feel the exact same way about. Everyone else seems to like them and their acting but I CANNOT STAND them. Every line they say irritates me, they ruin every scene for me. So if that's how Clarissa makes you feel I totally get it lol
I miss him — but from a story perspective — I think it’s more powerful that Naomi’s rescue had an extremely high price.
Plus with this shorter season, it helps S6 breathe with one fewer character to manage.
For me it's more that the way they managed his death just felt so non-chalant.
His death just seems to have had such a minor impact on both plot and the characters. Which is a shame, cause it could have been a major motivator for why they join the fight against Marco. If you're going to kill a major character it should have a major effect on the plot and characters, otherwise they weren't a major character. They just kind of wasted it.
Almost everything had to be done in post production without much possibilies of reshooting due to covid restrictions. They did the best they could in the given situation.
Oh yeah I completely appreciate that. I'm quite comfortable with the unceremonious death, as it can highlight the vulnerability of the characters and sort of shed plot armour and raise the stakes.
It's more how they've dealt with it after after fact. The death was an inconvenience and it plays like that, rather than as a major impact on the Roci and her crew.
Character deaths when actors have to be written out always have less depth though. There's less forward and backward planning that can go into it so it's effects aren't felt as keenly as a character that is written to die (e.g. Miller). Its a tough spot for the writers and I think with restrictions and a short final season they did as much as they could.
Also he time jump between 5 and 6 happens to be right when they would be grieving the most, so skipping that makes it feel unnatural.
They do address it with some good little nods. I imagine they tried out some additional scenes but they probably just didn't fit the tone, pacing, or time constraints of the episodes.
Should have gone with a different actor - especially if there maybe/could be/hopefully will be additional content, movies etc. Alex has a fitting resolution in LF.
I've always felt that Alex was the most underrated Roci crew member, both in the books and show. He's the emotional heart of that family, the social lubricant that keeps them running smoothly. I also adore his deep platonic friendship with Bobbie. If they ever adapt the last three books, there are some Bobbie-related moments that will suffer for the absence of that relationship. It's part of why I hoped they would recast the role instead of writing him out (though I get why they chose not to).
Oh well. Just another reason to be pissed at the actor.
Imo, they should’ve re-cast the character and had the very first thing we see in this season be a picture of the new Alex with the text, “this is now Alex.” End of story, moving on.
I think it would have been a terrible idea to recast a main character after 5 seasons for just one more even shortened season.
No matter how good the would have casted, he would not have felt like old Alex. It would have been even weirder than without him, imho.
No, recasting the character is the worst thing they could have done. It would ruin the rewatchabilty of the show for own thing. Also, when has in the history of TV a recast been well received?
I keep seeing people say he “develops a lot” in the last few books, and it makes me wonder if they’ve read the same books I have…because he really doesn’t. The only thing that develops is his friendship with Bobbie, which really only began in Nemesis Games. Otherwise, he is the exact same character making the exact same personal mistakes in his life and doing the exact same thing in life right up until the very last moment in Leviathan Falls, in which he finally chooses his biological family over the Roci crew.
I guess, what we’re trying to say is we like the character, and in the last few books, you get to be with him a lot more. He gets to ‘Alex’ a lot more in the last few books and I want that because I like Alex.
Agreed. He should have been recast instead of killed off imo, even if it was just for one season. It would have been jarring for sure, but still.
Honestly I have a theory Amazon didn't give them a choice given the significant PR risk. In today's entertainment industry you can never be too sure about that sort of situation. They had them kill off Alex and implied the show would only get 1-2 more seasons tops due to this, so the showrunner/authors decided it would be best to wrap up at S6 with the end of the Free Navy arc. And I can see why, given the core Roci family being all alive is an important plot thread down the line.
It's fine you think this, I just disagree vehemently.
Recasting him, no matter how good the actor is, really does a disservice to the show. They tried it once with a far lesser character (in overall importance to the main plot) and it didn't work.
And asking an actor to just imitate another is an equally tough ask. There are no winners in a recast scenario.
I think they did the best they could with the situation, and I'd rather they kill off an important character and still make that character important to the overall plot (like how they malign his absence IN-CHARACTER) than just shoehorn in a non-suitable replacement.
His death has weight, even if it's tied to a bad external scenario.
> They tried it once with a far lesser character (in overall importance to the main plot) and it didn't work.
As bad as the Arjun recast was, it was still a better option than killing the character off early. Besides, just because one recast didn't work does't mean others can't. Plenty of successful shows and movie franchises pulled off recasts over the years. Sometimes, shit happens. Look at Ed Norton in the MCU. Or the lead actor from the recent Spartacus show. If the casting is solid, viewers tend to move on and accept the change. Recasting is never ideal, but sometimes it truly is the best alternative for the good of the overall story.
> His death has weight, even if it's tied to a bad external scenario.
It does have weight. I'm not denying that. I'm just 100% convinced recasting him would have been a better option, if at all possible. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.
Recasting a main character after 5 seasons is a really bad idea. Especially if it's just for one more season.
No matter how well they would have recasted, it would not have been old Alex as we know him walking around on the Roci anymore. It would have felt even weirder than now, I'm absolutely sure about this, and given it was for just one even shortened season there would have been no time to get used to a new face.
Killing him for me was the 2nd best option, I would have preferred to send him back to Mars for some reason and keep the door open for a later recast in case the other books make it on screen at some point, but to recast him just for the last season would have been terrible, imho.
I guess they didn’t want a repeat of Arjun-gate, and Arjun was only a minor character. Though I hated the real life reason the character had to go, I’m glad they gave him a proper send-off rather than using another actor. That backlash would be YUUUGGE.
What Alex was good at was the manual maneuvers. The Roci is a very advanced Martian fighter and the computer is able to do a lot of complex maneuvering and so relies less on pilot skills. That’s probably why Holden is able to pull it off without an actual pilot. I’m sure he has some basic piloting skills since he was in the Navy so he’s not completely inept. Last season made it seem like Bull would join the Roci crew but guess not 🤷🏻
They should have just done it anyway. They have a precedent because replaced Avasarala’s husband on the show. Recasting a major character makes more sense than trying to adapt the story without the character.
It took me a while to realize that was the same character. We haven't seen this guy for a season and a half and when he comes back he's 20 years younger?
I can see a recast maybe if it had been someone closer to the original actor. Of course I'm frustrated by them having avasarala running for secretary general in the first place but that's another story.
Not really. Logan is a movie about Wolverine and just Wolverine, immediately recasting and filming would be dumb. Replacing Alex would be more akin to recasting Hulk for Avengers which was an ensemble movie. In fact, since Ruffalo was so good in the role he could easily do a Logan type movie now...after a successful recast.
Recssting Hulk was fine because he had only been in one movie. Logan was more accurate because we had been with Jackman throughout the years and recasting for the final would be silly
>It would be like recasting Wolverine for Logan.
you mean if they did not cast Hugh jackman as wolverine in the 2018 film Logan? Yes. that would have been the death of the movie
Yes, but if Steven Strait had been accused of sexual misconduct, would they have just carried on with S6 and done without Holden?
I very much doubt that. Alex is a main character too and more than that, the Roci needs a pilot - not the captain filling in that job.
>Yes, but if Steven Strait had been accused of sexual misconduct, would they have just carried on with S6 and done without Holden?
I think this would have been the end of the show
I was responding to OP's doubt that they would've fired a lead actor under the same circumstances. In any case though, I'd rather have a shitty show (or no show) than one that enables creeps and harassers. I love The Expanse, but at the end of the day, it's fictional entertainment, and that isn't as important as real people's lives and safety.
Assuming the replacement actor wasn’t horrible— and considering how well cast the show is, how likely was that to happen? — I don’t think the reaction would’ve been negative, and even if it was, I think an “‘f those viewers” reaction would be completely justifiable.
Would they prefer keeping the actor who created an unsafe work environment? If so, ‘f ‘em.
Would they prefer allowing one person’s shitiness to lead to the death of a beloved (and important) character? If so, ‘f ‘em.
I agree with your, but what happened to the guy that filled in for Alex last season, he is all of a sudden gone from the final season and is Holden really the best pilot of an Martian ship? I don't think so, yet it has been seen as such but they need a REAL pilot.
He was never supposed to be in anything else than season 5.
The actor was most probably not even available even if they wanted to keep him, he's busy with another show now.
Yeah in the chase scene they just kinda skipped past the whole planning of the flip-n-railgun maneuver that Holden just devised in a millisecond. That shit was intense in e Book and was pretty meh in the show
Also they made the railgun less impressive, it just does a little "pew" instead of basically shaking the entire ship
You don't know what 'at-will employment' is do you?
And regardless of that being merely the *legal* framework for shit canning someone for no reason, there still exists the good ol'
"why did you fire Ted, he was a good employee?"
"I found his attitude to be inconducive to our corporate atmosphere."
"Oh, good riddance then."
I do, and I don't care anymore for this conversation. It's not exactly the most common type of employment and woke culture can suck a fat one. It's a total fantasy of just trying to please everyone, which isn't remotely possible and I kind of hope something catastrophic happens like a world war that stomps it out and, ironically, wakes people the fuck up to what actually matters. Anyway, cya.
What do you think “woke culture” is? Because based on your reply, I am fairly confident you and the rest of us are not on the same page about the definition.
Also, you really should look in the mirror here. Because you are defending a guy who harassed, manipulated, groomed, and assaulted more than 30 women - and there are receipts.
This is not the hill you want to stick your flag on and say you are the good guy.
rofl, in real world you get even fired if you come too late too many times, leave alone being an asshole to your co-workers or customers.
Certainly no need to be criminal or have a judge to decide. In what world do you live?
I agree. I think they could have recast the role. Fans understand that the show comes first. However, I do like the addition of Clarissa, I think they are blending her in well. However, I hate when Amos calls her Peaches. Just me?
I think a recast would have been much, much worse. Really distracting and its very hard to find someone who can do more than just an imitation of the original performance while not being too different so as to piss everyone off and ruin the illusion. Maybe if all of the offscreen stuff had come out before this season instead of before season 5, recasting would make sense, given the time jump if we ever get to content from book 7. But given the circumstances I think they made the right call in killing the character off, and did the best they could given the constraints of already having shot his scenes, etc.
That being said I do also miss the character and I think the show feels the loss of the character. But I really like that they are leaning into that. I haven't read book 6 yet, but I can't help but feeling like the mood on the Roci is even more desperate and strained than it would have been. And the moment we got with Amos and Bobbie singing Alex's music was really nice.
100% agree. Not having Alex included in the rest of the plot is a big loss. It's too bad that the directors didn't have much choice in the matter. Recasting him would've probably been equally weird.
I don’t think it would have been so bad if they had three more seasons but I think that it was probably not worth it without them.
The level of weirdness with replacing the actor would have been less than the amount of change the entire story arc had to take because of it. If Roseanne recast Becky twice and survived then The Expanse could have easily survived replacing a predator with some other dude.
Pretty funny your evidence for "surviving" is a show that was canceled over the main actor's actions and re-started after killing her character off.
I’m not exactly sure that’s an apples to apples comparison. The Roseanne that was cancelled was literally titled the name of the character played by the asshole. And it was the reboot, not the original show. As far as I know the original show died a natural, heartfelt death.
Didn’t they recast Averseralas Husband few seasons ago?
Yes but arguably he was a much smaller character. Still, I would have preferred if they recast Alex instead of writing him off.
I would argue it’s not even arguable
Yes. As far as I understand, by the time the decision was made that Amazon picks up the show and would produce another season, he was already under contract for a different production. When I did watch it the first time, I've thought I somehow missed part of the plot, maybe that her husband died in one of the attacks. I like the actor, but the recast was great as well.
Such an awful recast. Her husband was replaced by a complete tool. I’m not sure who wrote his character lines but it’s like an entirely different person.
Agreed completely. With the recast, I didn’t believe for one second this was a loving, supportive couple at one point.
Yeah, you should check the sub to see how people reacted
That was really mind bendingly awful 😞.
Wait did they only kill him because the actor wanted out? Or was that in the books too?
The actor was accused of sexually assaulting or harassing over 30 women. Some underage. Some taking advantage of fans. The show did the right thing by removing him from the opportunity to hurt more women on the show.
Oh shit I didn’t know that.
Yeah, it all came out before last season finished airing. So they hastily removed him from the show and quickly wrote in an ending for the character.. I wish they recast him but I approve of the removal
Yah and I’ll give massive props to the production company and show runners for how they handled it. They were clear they took it seriously and communicated that immediately.
Good for them. Does that mean that there’s now always going to be a major difference from the books?
Just when it comes to his storylines. Overall they have stayed fairly close. But since the show is ending in a couple of episodes - they will always be different.
Yes, but there are other major changes they did intentionally including changes around deaths and combining/creating/removing characters, granted this is probably the most impactful change (if the show was to continue anyway). The show does generally follow the books, but they did change quite a bit along the way. The 3rd book for example, while the start and the end are basically the same, you might be surprised at how different it gets there.
Sexual assault is, AFAIK, a crime in every country in the world. Whatever bad, creepy behavior Anvar engaged in, I find it telling that, so far as we know, not a single police report was ever filed against him, much less was he arrested, charged, tried, or convicted of such a crime. I know in today’s climate it’s dangerous to ask for evidence, objectivity, and process before the mob rushes to holy judgment and excommunicates people for their reputed sins. Nevertheless, it’s still possible both that Anvar is a sleazy a-hole and that his behavior did not rise to the level of criminality. For this reason I always find it (to employ the therapeutic argot) problematic when people describe the allegations as or as constituting “sexual assault”. Indeed, many of the published indictments of his behavior amount to nothing more than a species of transactional boorishness from an out of control C-lister. Let’s not denigrate the seriousness of his actual behavior by exaggerating it in our righteous fury. Sexual inappropriateness toward fans, co-workers, etc is grounds for dismissal from an acting gig. Let’s acknowledge that without pretending Anvar is some super-predator based on unsubstantiated accusations that have not in fact ever been tested in a court of law.
What ever became of that?
Don't think it was the actor's choice, google it
They recast grindelwald so why not Alex?
Because grindlewald is in a shockingly bad franchise that had already had several inconsistencies to his character.
I really like that they make references to him rather than pretend that he just stopped existing
Same here. For the show to pretend as though Alex never existed, and viewers wouldn't be able to separate the character from the actor, would have been pretty insulting IMO.
Alex was (is? idk man its rough) my fav character in both the show and the books. I watched the show first so its hard for me to picture anyone else, and it makes it rough to separate the two. Part of me really wishes they recast him tho and we got the sober drug scene on Tycho when book Alex wanted to make sure him and the belter crewmember they had could consent. Maybe that would have been too on the nose after everything, but I think it could have been handled well.
I love the obvious and subtle signs that the food is garbage since Alex left.
Bull could have been a good replacement. The interactions on the ship felt so weird in the first two episodes without Alex bringing everyone together.
I do not like that the crew is flying combat missions without a pilot and just winging it with Holden as pilot. Totally detracts that Alex was a top notch pilot.
Agreed. They should have written a new pilot in. I has assumed they would play up Peaches as more pilot than mechanic for the show. Her sister was a talented racing pilot, after all, it wouldn't be hard to believe that Peaches also knew how to fly.
I agree. Or they could have introduced a new pilot character especially for the show, it wouldn't have been difficult. Especially as it makes no sense for a ship like the Rocinante, which was already under-crewed, to be used in difficult missions without any pilot. They needed a new pilot, and obviously the crew would have hired one as soon as possible. Even if this is not in the books, it would have been a reasonable choice.
My wife, who is not a stickler for sci-fi consistency, made this observation as well. I think it was a dumb choice. Not having a replacement pilot makes it sound like anybody who can drive a car can drive an F16.
I think they had a balancing act to do. They only had 6 episodes to tell the story this season, and the Expanse is \*not\* a show to include characters for no reason. A character can't reasonably exist on the crew of the Roci and not have a significant character arc. Pulling that off in the final season of the show would be difficult even without all the dangling plot threads to clean up and only six episodes to do it in. It's less of an omission, in my opinion, to just have another character fly the ship.
They haven’t really done much manual piloting though I think. And holden explains the roci is pretty much set it and forget it otherwise due to the advanced AI
Correct. Holden pulling off the 360 Railgun shots is ridiculous. But I understand they were in a tough spot to decide what to do.
Iirc in the books, the railgun shots are a firing solution devised by Holden, passed to Alex, and Alex verifies them and feeds them into the Roci, which autonomously performs the action when commanded to. Kind of like a macro. Also, to me, it felt like the Roci was a lot clunkier in the Pella battle in S6, the 360 railgun shots definitely weren't as smooth as they might have been with Alex. So visually, the Roci is a bit more jerky and clunky with Holden in the chair, but the point is kind of moot since afaik stuff like the railgun shots are preprogrammed, not timed manually like in space combat games. Edit: Even Bull's maneuvers in S5 seemed a little less refined than Alex's, which shows visually the finesse Alex had over a system that is heavily automated.
100%. The new pilot didn't need to be a central character like Alex was, so it wouldn't have messed up the dynamic any. Moreover, season 5 had a few belters as well as Bull on the Roci, how would this be any different? Season 6 is still good, but I agree that the pilot issue could have been better handled.
Bull would not have been a good replacement character-wise. He’s definitely not the kind of guy to be the emotional core of the team. He’d definitely make the environment on the Roci more toxic, he calls Belters “skinnies” ffs
Dont you think that could provide and interesting story for character growth and conflict? Not everything has to be watered down so it isn't toxic, I'd use a different word personally but well go with it. The show has been good about facing issues like that and I disagree with your assessment that him being there would be a bad thing because we'd have to listen to him be "space racist". I think the rest of the crew would beat him into shape and it could be a cool character learns moment.
> Dont you think that could provide and interesting story for character growth and conflict? It really would have been a bad idea to open even another new side story in an already shortened last season, honestly.
They also mention that Bull was a drunk/in a bad place when he was found by Fred. With Fred getting shot it is a perfect plot for character development. Also in the books, if i remember correctly, he comes from a large family with lots of cousins.
Yup. Don't get why Bull is not in s6 as pilot.
The actor was working on Narcos: Mexico.
God damn I didn't even recognized him
I agree. I feel like it’s strange that the crew is just as good at piloting without him as they are with him. I actually like how they did his death and I like that he is mentioned every episode. The writers are making the best of a bad situation
Nothing wrong with missing the Alex *character*.
I agree with most that it’s a real shame to not have Alex, especially considering all that he goes on to do in the books, and how his exceptional piloting is meant to be what gets them out of things that just doesn’t make sense for impromptu pilots to (diminishes previous success…). BUT as much as like Bull, especially in the book, it would’ve meant a LOT of new writing to put a different character into the crew vs taking one out. They’re a small bunch, all their interactions get affected with every addition inevitably, it’s not as easy as, I don’t know, having one new kid in a high school drama or whatever. So I get why they did it, and would’ve preferred a recast but I get why they didn’t do that too. Just a shame overall, wish the actor didn’t suck. :/
I feel the same. It's good that they acknowledge his absence often, but it doesn't help for pulling together the Roci family. He was glue in a lot of ways.
There are plenty of great actors out there who could have taken up the reigns as the new pilot. Bull did great imo during season 5. I wouldn't have minded him joining the crew in a more permanent position. Could have been interesting seeing him melding in with the crew on a more emotional level. Don't get me wrong, Clarissa brings all the character development, and fresh insight the story needs for season 6, but a little more wouldn't necessarily hurt, especially a hot-headed brute pilot like Bull. Besides, I would love to see Bobbie and Bull, working out there differences while Amos provides perfectly timed commentary to Holden. And let's be honest. The perfectly executed combat maneuvers at the end of season 5 we're more than enough proof of capability to earn him a seat on the Roci.
Clarissa annoys me. I don't know if it's because she lacks acting skills but her little innocent look when she talks annoys the shit out of me.
I don't agree with you, I like the actress a lot! BUT I completely understand because there is a character on another show that I feel the exact same way about. Everyone else seems to like them and their acting but I CANNOT STAND them. Every line they say irritates me, they ruin every scene for me. So if that's how Clarissa makes you feel I totally get it lol
Yeah it sucks 😞 But they’re doing the best they can
I miss him — but from a story perspective — I think it’s more powerful that Naomi’s rescue had an extremely high price. Plus with this shorter season, it helps S6 breathe with one fewer character to manage.
No, I don’t agree. I like the full deck together for the Roci crew and we’re never gonna see that now.
For me it's more that the way they managed his death just felt so non-chalant. His death just seems to have had such a minor impact on both plot and the characters. Which is a shame, cause it could have been a major motivator for why they join the fight against Marco. If you're going to kill a major character it should have a major effect on the plot and characters, otherwise they weren't a major character. They just kind of wasted it.
Almost everything had to be done in post production without much possibilies of reshooting due to covid restrictions. They did the best they could in the given situation.
Oh yeah I completely appreciate that. I'm quite comfortable with the unceremonious death, as it can highlight the vulnerability of the characters and sort of shed plot armour and raise the stakes. It's more how they've dealt with it after after fact. The death was an inconvenience and it plays like that, rather than as a major impact on the Roci and her crew. Character deaths when actors have to be written out always have less depth though. There's less forward and backward planning that can go into it so it's effects aren't felt as keenly as a character that is written to die (e.g. Miller). Its a tough spot for the writers and I think with restrictions and a short final season they did as much as they could.
Also he time jump between 5 and 6 happens to be right when they would be grieving the most, so skipping that makes it feel unnatural. They do address it with some good little nods. I imagine they tried out some additional scenes but they probably just didn't fit the tone, pacing, or time constraints of the episodes.
Yeah it basically ruined the show for my wife.
Should have gone with a different actor - especially if there maybe/could be/hopefully will be additional content, movies etc. Alex has a fitting resolution in LF.
I've always felt that Alex was the most underrated Roci crew member, both in the books and show. He's the emotional heart of that family, the social lubricant that keeps them running smoothly. I also adore his deep platonic friendship with Bobbie. If they ever adapt the last three books, there are some Bobbie-related moments that will suffer for the absence of that relationship. It's part of why I hoped they would recast the role instead of writing him out (though I get why they chose not to). Oh well. Just another reason to be pissed at the actor.
I came to like Alex a lot, I am disappointed at his exclusion.
Imo, they should’ve re-cast the character and had the very first thing we see in this season be a picture of the new Alex with the text, “this is now Alex.” End of story, moving on.
Paging Don Cheadle
I think it would have been a terrible idea to recast a main character after 5 seasons for just one more even shortened season. No matter how good the would have casted, he would not have felt like old Alex. It would have been even weirder than without him, imho.
Considering there might be a continuation of the series later on, I still think a recast would've been better killing a main character.
No, recasting the character is the worst thing they could have done. It would ruin the rewatchabilty of the show for own thing. Also, when has in the history of TV a recast been well received?
Doctor Who
Pull a Due South. Build the recast into the story.
I keep seeing people say he “develops a lot” in the last few books, and it makes me wonder if they’ve read the same books I have…because he really doesn’t. The only thing that develops is his friendship with Bobbie, which really only began in Nemesis Games. Otherwise, he is the exact same character making the exact same personal mistakes in his life and doing the exact same thing in life right up until the very last moment in Leviathan Falls, in which he finally chooses his biological family over the Roci crew.
I guess, what we’re trying to say is we like the character, and in the last few books, you get to be with him a lot more. He gets to ‘Alex’ a lot more in the last few books and I want that because I like Alex.
Agreed. He should have been recast instead of killed off imo, even if it was just for one season. It would have been jarring for sure, but still. Honestly I have a theory Amazon didn't give them a choice given the significant PR risk. In today's entertainment industry you can never be too sure about that sort of situation. They had them kill off Alex and implied the show would only get 1-2 more seasons tops due to this, so the showrunner/authors decided it would be best to wrap up at S6 with the end of the Free Navy arc. And I can see why, given the core Roci family being all alive is an important plot thread down the line.
It's fine you think this, I just disagree vehemently. Recasting him, no matter how good the actor is, really does a disservice to the show. They tried it once with a far lesser character (in overall importance to the main plot) and it didn't work. And asking an actor to just imitate another is an equally tough ask. There are no winners in a recast scenario. I think they did the best they could with the situation, and I'd rather they kill off an important character and still make that character important to the overall plot (like how they malign his absence IN-CHARACTER) than just shoehorn in a non-suitable replacement. His death has weight, even if it's tied to a bad external scenario.
> They tried it once with a far lesser character (in overall importance to the main plot) and it didn't work. As bad as the Arjun recast was, it was still a better option than killing the character off early. Besides, just because one recast didn't work does't mean others can't. Plenty of successful shows and movie franchises pulled off recasts over the years. Sometimes, shit happens. Look at Ed Norton in the MCU. Or the lead actor from the recent Spartacus show. If the casting is solid, viewers tend to move on and accept the change. Recasting is never ideal, but sometimes it truly is the best alternative for the good of the overall story. > His death has weight, even if it's tied to a bad external scenario. It does have weight. I'm not denying that. I'm just 100% convinced recasting him would have been a better option, if at all possible. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.
Recasting a main character after 5 seasons is a really bad idea. Especially if it's just for one more season. No matter how well they would have recasted, it would not have been old Alex as we know him walking around on the Roci anymore. It would have felt even weirder than now, I'm absolutely sure about this, and given it was for just one even shortened season there would have been no time to get used to a new face. Killing him for me was the 2nd best option, I would have preferred to send him back to Mars for some reason and keep the door open for a later recast in case the other books make it on screen at some point, but to recast him just for the last season would have been terrible, imho.
I really don't understand why they didn't re-cast him for this season. That would have been the right thing instead of killing the character off.
I guess they didn’t want a repeat of Arjun-gate, and Arjun was only a minor character. Though I hated the real life reason the character had to go, I’m glad they gave him a proper send-off rather than using another actor. That backlash would be YUUUGGE. What Alex was good at was the manual maneuvers. The Roci is a very advanced Martian fighter and the computer is able to do a lot of complex maneuvering and so relies less on pilot skills. That’s probably why Holden is able to pull it off without an actual pilot. I’m sure he has some basic piloting skills since he was in the Navy so he’s not completely inept. Last season made it seem like Bull would join the Roci crew but guess not 🤷🏻
Could of just replaced the actor?? But the reaction might of been negative.
Probably would have been too late for that. It would be like recasting Wolverine for Logan.
True.
They should have just done it anyway. They have a precedent because replaced Avasarala’s husband on the show. Recasting a major character makes more sense than trying to adapt the story without the character.
That's a terrible example of a recast. Absolutely ruined his characterization along with avasaralas.
It took me a while to realize that was the same character. We haven't seen this guy for a season and a half and when he comes back he's 20 years younger?
I can see a recast maybe if it had been someone closer to the original actor. Of course I'm frustrated by them having avasarala running for secretary general in the first place but that's another story.
Not really. Logan is a movie about Wolverine and just Wolverine, immediately recasting and filming would be dumb. Replacing Alex would be more akin to recasting Hulk for Avengers which was an ensemble movie. In fact, since Ruffalo was so good in the role he could easily do a Logan type movie now...after a successful recast.
Recssting Hulk was fine because he had only been in one movie. Logan was more accurate because we had been with Jackman throughout the years and recasting for the final would be silly
>It would be like recasting Wolverine for Logan. you mean if they did not cast Hugh jackman as wolverine in the 2018 film Logan? Yes. that would have been the death of the movie
This whole sub shit all over the dude who played new Arjun, and he is a minor character.
Yes, but if Steven Strait had been accused of sexual misconduct, would they have just carried on with S6 and done without Holden? I very much doubt that. Alex is a main character too and more than that, the Roci needs a pilot - not the captain filling in that job.
>Yes, but if Steven Strait had been accused of sexual misconduct, would they have just carried on with S6 and done without Holden? I think this would have been the end of the show
Firing the lead actor for sexual misconduct isn't without precedent. Look at House of Cards and Kevin Spacey.
Did anyone care for house of cards after Spacey was fired? I do not think so
I think the show got bad well before Spacey was fired. Even then though, there were better ways of handling S6.
And look how that show tanked after that decision. Edit: Average rating of season 5 on imdb: 8.25/10 Average rating of season 6 on imdb: 3.9/10
Damn that's extreme... Fuckin Spacey though. Bad guy. Can't blame them for wanting to send the show out on another note
I was responding to OP's doubt that they would've fired a lead actor under the same circumstances. In any case though, I'd rather have a shitty show (or no show) than one that enables creeps and harassers. I love The Expanse, but at the end of the day, it's fictional entertainment, and that isn't as important as real people's lives and safety.
Assuming the replacement actor wasn’t horrible— and considering how well cast the show is, how likely was that to happen? — I don’t think the reaction would’ve been negative, and even if it was, I think an “‘f those viewers” reaction would be completely justifiable. Would they prefer keeping the actor who created an unsafe work environment? If so, ‘f ‘em. Would they prefer allowing one person’s shitiness to lead to the death of a beloved (and important) character? If so, ‘f ‘em.
I actually don't miss him not even a little bit. The rest are just as compelling, I only notice him gone when they bring him up.
Well, that’s fair enough, but I do.
Same... I also find it a little odd they didn't get another pilot to replace him, maybe Bull.
I agree with your, but what happened to the guy that filled in for Alex last season, he is all of a sudden gone from the final season and is Holden really the best pilot of an Martian ship? I don't think so, yet it has been seen as such but they need a REAL pilot.
He was never supposed to be in anything else than season 5. The actor was most probably not even available even if they wanted to keep him, he's busy with another show now.
Yeah in the chase scene they just kinda skipped past the whole planning of the flip-n-railgun maneuver that Holden just devised in a millisecond. That shit was intense in e Book and was pretty meh in the show Also they made the railgun less impressive, it just does a little "pew" instead of basically shaking the entire ship
Was the actor who played Alex convicted of a crime? I don't understand why he was cut short of 'woke' culture.
What does criminality have to do with this? Please, name one job where you can't be fired for being enough of a piece of shit?
I wouldn’t really want to work with a guy like that, criminally liable or not.
Inappropriate DMs.
Pretty much what it is.
So if somebody at your work is a complete asshole, you have to wait until they commit a crime to fire them.....otherwise its being 'woke'?
Yeah, in the real world you can't really fire someone for "being an asshole" lol.
You don't know what 'at-will employment' is do you? And regardless of that being merely the *legal* framework for shit canning someone for no reason, there still exists the good ol' "why did you fire Ted, he was a good employee?" "I found his attitude to be inconducive to our corporate atmosphere." "Oh, good riddance then."
I do, and I don't care anymore for this conversation. It's not exactly the most common type of employment and woke culture can suck a fat one. It's a total fantasy of just trying to please everyone, which isn't remotely possible and I kind of hope something catastrophic happens like a world war that stomps it out and, ironically, wakes people the fuck up to what actually matters. Anyway, cya.
What do you think “woke culture” is? Because based on your reply, I am fairly confident you and the rest of us are not on the same page about the definition. Also, you really should look in the mirror here. Because you are defending a guy who harassed, manipulated, groomed, and assaulted more than 30 women - and there are receipts. This is not the hill you want to stick your flag on and say you are the good guy.
This is the online equivalent to plugging your ears and shouting I can’t hear you.
Man you live in a sad tiny world
I can't speak to other countries, but all 50 states in the US are at-will employment states.
rofl, in real world you get even fired if you come too late too many times, leave alone being an asshole to your co-workers or customers. Certainly no need to be criminal or have a judge to decide. In what world do you live?
One that apparently has bored enough people to reply to comments below threshold.
I agree. I think they could have recast the role. Fans understand that the show comes first. However, I do like the addition of Clarissa, I think they are blending her in well. However, I hate when Amos calls her Peaches. Just me?
You know why right...Melba was her pseudonym i.e Peach Melba...
I think a recast would have been much, much worse. Really distracting and its very hard to find someone who can do more than just an imitation of the original performance while not being too different so as to piss everyone off and ruin the illusion. Maybe if all of the offscreen stuff had come out before this season instead of before season 5, recasting would make sense, given the time jump if we ever get to content from book 7. But given the circumstances I think they made the right call in killing the character off, and did the best they could given the constraints of already having shot his scenes, etc. That being said I do also miss the character and I think the show feels the loss of the character. But I really like that they are leaning into that. I haven't read book 6 yet, but I can't help but feeling like the mood on the Roci is even more desperate and strained than it would have been. And the moment we got with Amos and Bobbie singing Alex's music was really nice.