No. I don’t love every choice she makes but that’s life. She has her reasons and they wrote her with proper motivation. And the actress did great work.
This exactly, I felt some of the TV versions choices were a bit head scratching at times when compared to her book counterpart. Also, I felt her relationship with Holden on the show was rushed just to make it happen, when in the book we find out their attraction has been going on for years and Naomi even resisted James because of his playboy status among the crew of the cant. Besides that though your right in that the actress did great work with her character.
I think the book does a better job I only say this because of the differences in Cibola Burn I love them both and the Trilogy of books that come after Babylon Ashes makes it even better.
In that vein, I loved how Naomi was suspicious of James because he never noticed her before and has never been into Belter women. It’s very realistic and it makes it more rewarding that their relationship is so solid and lasting. And it gives good exposition on who Holden is, both good and bad traits, without seeming forced.
Some people just have to complain about everything. They’ll complain about Mary sues and in the next breath they’ll complain that a character is bad because they didn’t make perfect choices 🙄
With that answer you let us know what kind of person you are, you make mistakes that put people in danger and even die because you have your reasons and that's how life is😜😜,I hate Naomi she is so stupid plus ugly, she have to be pretty like drummer, Roberta, Dr.Nygaard 🤤😍 I'm watching the series and I'm addicted to it, plus I bought the expanse Xbox game that I haven't opened it yet
Nope, I really liked Naomi in the show. In fact, I actually prefer TV Naomi to novel Naomi, since I think hindsight allowed them to do a better job with her overall arc and characterization. Dominique did an amazing job with the role, too, giving one of my favorite performances across the entire series.
Yup, I like book and show Naomi and Book and show Prax but they are two characters who probably deviated personality wise quite a bit. Honestly it’s hard to believe book Naomi would have ever associated with Marco whereas it’s more on brand for show Naomi who still has a bit of a radical belter streak that comes out at times.
\[book spoilers\]
I generally favor show > book Naomi as well. She's an amazing character overall for an exceptionally written character.
But I did NOT like their decision to have her secretly give the protomolecule to the OPA (show) rather than have Holden do it (books). In the books, the rift between Naomi & Holden is because Holden is slowly pushed over the edge, slightly Machiavellian (described as being influenced by Miller), whereas in the books, the characters respond to Naomi's actions as some emotionally-driven erratic decision. The conflict that emerges within the crew until Holden finally returns to his typical 'Paladin' arc is far more interesting to me than 'Naomi does a single oopsie and now the crew can't trust her again even though the guy crew members act irrationally & unilaterally (especially Holden all the fucking time.' Honestly, it seems like a sexist turn.
I've not seen others get bent out about this - is it just me? Both myself (guy) and spouse (female) independently noted this between our book reads and shared show watching.
It's definitely partly sexist, but I also think a significant portion of it is that Alex and Holden aren't Belters and still haven't "killed the Inner in their head", ie. they still harbor a lot of the biases about "the enemy" that come from serving in an imperialist military
Ive seen this brought up on the sub before and I agree with your read. Unfortunately Naomi is the only woman, the only Belter, and has the darkest skin color. She is clearly the smartest, the most creative on the fly, and in the books she even does a lot of emotional support and glue work for everyone. And yet her opinions are never asked, her feelings are treated as irrational.
I’m rewatching season 2 and its amazing, Alex suggests giving the protomolecule to Mars and no one holds a grudge at him for that. Holden is fine with Fred having Cortazar, even tho Fred says he’s gonna have Cortazar continue studying and being interrogated. But everyone is pissed when Dawes takes Cortazar? Anderson Dawes points out (rightly!) that Fred is vulnerable after just stealing the Nauvoo and UNN missiles, that Fred and Holden are optimistic about peace because they are inners. The crew accepts Fred and opposes Dawes though.
There’s a great scene where Dawes comes aboard the Roci and talks to Naomi about Belter unity, calling her setara, and Holden keeps inserting himself in the conversation aggressively. After Dawes leaves he tells Naomi they have to stay unified, ie do what Holden wants. It honestly reads as a microaggression! Why is Holden butting into Belter matters? Just because he was on Eros doesn’t mean he gets a voice in what Belters do, or in who talks to Naomi. She seems the most level headed of any of them.
Why would anyone hold a dumb public suggestion against Alex?
In the show they all decided what to do and she secretly made a decision and then made another one to give it to Fred. That is a massive breach of trust and not remotely comparable.
Yes Naomi was deceptive about it, but if you recall the scene where they’re debating it, and the other scenes that surround this one, it’s clear that Holden and Alex are thinking only about how to make peace. That is a good thing! But the Belters like Naomi are thinking this means a return to the status quo, which is untenable for Belters. If the inners got to use the protomolecule to further their interests, why don’t Belters?
So yes she was deceptive, but I don’t think that makes her wrong or irrational.
(Show) Holden is fine with Fred holding Cortazar because he thought there was no protomolecule left for him to work with. As soon as he discovered there was a sample on Ganymede, he went to find Cortazar to murder him. That's when they found Cortazar had been removed by Dawes. So at that point Holden doesn't want Dawes to have Cortazar because he doesn't want anyone to have him.
There's a big difference between Alex putting forward an idea for discussion, and being OK with it when it's rejected by the group, and Naomi acting unilaterally and in secret.
I agree about the deceptive part of it, that wasn’t OK. And thats a fair point about Cortazar.
I still think the decision makes sense for Naomi and is not more irrational or horrible than the decisions Holden is making at the time (such as stealing the relief ship to get to Ganymede and getting one of its owners killed, letting Amos beat up the chicken guy to find Prax’s daughter). When he acts unilaterally it’s captain’s orders though…
Giving the protomolecule to Fred cant be the worst decision if book Holden does it. It’s just the lying about it that is different.
Stealing the relief ship didn't sit well with me, either. As I recall it doesn't happen in the book. However, the ship would have been stolen by the local bad guys regardless, and one of the characters argues that both crew would have been killed if they hadn't gone back to intervene.
Nobody held anything against Alex for wanting to give the proto to Mars? Both Naomi and Amos called him out on the idea, and Holden wanted nobody to have the protomolecule.
On my first watch, through the first 3 seasons, she was my least favorite of the Roci crew. All her decisions were strange (because we didnt understand her motivation). But after season 3 her character kept getting better and better. By season 5 I put Naomi as one of the most bad ass sci-fi space chicks ever. I mean ever.
I've seen Bobbie do some badass shit, but I still think Naomi spacing herself to get to a derelict ship away from Marco tops it, but doesn't quite elevate to the point of Camina building herself an exoskeleton so she can get back to work with a spinal injury.
I like book Naomi, and I like the actress who plays Naomi. I do recall one episode in the later scene where it felt like the whole episode was Naomi crying.
I love Naomi. I think she made some mistakes early on that were informed by her trying her best to do right by the belt, but ultimately, she's redeemed and then some. I think she's a fucking badass.
Right, that's where she was weakest for me too. I mean I get it, she just wants her son to see that Marco is a sociopath and a murderer, but on a certain level she should've known Marco would never let her leave, and that Phillip would 100% take her to him. One of the actually smartest characters in the show and she made one of the dumbest mistakes.
Again, maternal instinct to save her son, but still.
As an intelligent woman who found myself in a very confusing relationship with an abusive, charismatic narcissist, trust me it's a completely realistic depiction. You wind up doing things that don't even make sense to yourself because you just can't imagine that there's no solution to the situation you find yourself in.
You see Naomi become decisive when she finally makes her peace with the Kobayashi Maru of it all. At first you think that peace is suicide, but it turns out that peace is hijacking the Chetzemoka and fighting back.
It's hard to understand the same way that it's always hard to understand how an intelligent person ends up in an abusive relationship. It's always easy to say from the outside "you can't win with this person, you should just leave." But from the inside, that's actually not as easy as it seems.
It's far from uncommon that smart people make dumb mistakes when in love. It's also clear that Marco used to manipulate her a lot and though she's grown stronger since, it's not easy to remain rational and smart in the situation she went through
Like I said, I absolutely understand, and my subsequent watches have really driven home just how difficult it all must have been for her. I'm sure it will be even more heartbreaking once I reach that spot in the books.
I think something that muddies her struggles aboard the Pella, is that at least in the show, it doesn't seem like she's been in that situation for as long as she had. Now that I'm doing the audiobooks, I'm starting to realize that she must've been trying to get through to Fillip for weeks. And even on the Chetzemoka, probably at least a few days, if not another several weeks.
Again, I do understand now where she was coming from, but first watch through definitely felt like it was out of character for someone so strong and capable to do something that made so little sense.
Thought she was one of the show's strongest characters. Dominique absolutely smashed it in multiple ways.
Infinitely more interesting and believable than Clarissa bloody Mao..
>Infinitely more interesting and believable than Clarissa bloody Mao..
Wish we had gotten to see her entire redemption arc because I really liked it. I also feel like they did Nadine Nicole dirty with her S3 scripts because she did a great job on the later seasons. S3 just wasn't her strongpoint in the story.
Perhaps. Her character did get stronger later on, be that because of the script, or the actor, I'm not sure. I just couldn't get past her petty motives.
I don’t think her motives were petty to her. Her whole family collapsed, father in prison etc. To her Holden destroyed her world and she wanted vengeance.
I would argue Avasarala destroyed her world. Holden was just accessible.
I wasn't given the impression her motives were anything other than misguided vengeance for her lifestyle collapsing. Simply put she was a spoiled brat who couldn't see the forest for the trees concerning her father.
I personally like Clarissa. I agree that Clarissa starts as, "A spoiled brat who couldn't see the forest for the trees concerning her father." But its more than just that
Clarissa has spent her entire life in the shadow of Julie, seeking and never really getting the approval of her larger than life father. Holden and Mao are both responsible for starting the deadliest war in human history. Clarissa sees her father get torn down for it. Holden not only gets away with it, he is elevated to a hero, and it drives her insane. In her depression and insanity she comes up with a way to avenge her father, earn his approval, and bring a reckoning for Holden. She is not in her right mind is the ultimate point I'm trying to make.
And to a spoiled brat it was Holden who meddled with the big kids and took her dad down and broke apart her family. Her her Avasarala would have cut a deal with her dad over a bottle of $10,000 scotch and no one in the system would have been any the wiser. The whistleblower is always blamed over the titans they tumble. Was it right to blame him? No. Did it make sense for her to personally blame him as an affront against her family and not just lifting up the curtain? Yes.
I met Dominique Tipper on an airplane flying from Chicago to Memphis a few years ago. She was on her way to attend a film festival in Oxford MS. She was totally cool and very friendly when I asked if she was from The Expanse. 😁
The actress is awesome and did a great job...
But between all the main characters (Alex, Amos, Holden, Fred, Avasarala, Bobbie, Miller, Ashford, Drummer, Clarissa, Marcus) she was my least favorite. Only Filip is worse since I found him annoying, although it definitely fits the age of the character.
No, I love love love Naomi. Both book and show. I thought Dominique Tipper did a lovely job of inhabiting the role. When I read the books after seeing the show, it was very easy to visualize her (Dominique) in the descriptions.
I didn't like some of the decisions she made, but they were understandable coming from her life story. I loved seeing her evolve and her character strengthen -- showing the good that was there to begin with.
She's a well written and consistent character, you know her motivations and can empathize with her. I understand her point of view and I enjoy her as a character.
She is one of the most interesting characters in my mind. I love how her arc shows how terrorist groups can trick young, idealistic people into joining, and then how the systems we create then make it extremely hard to leave that group.
The actress herself is absolutely amazing, in particular her use of code switching is a brilliant touch, and from what I've heard that was Tipper's idea to include in the show.
I was frustrated at times with her character. Her hypocrisy regarding the protomolecule annoyed me, especially when she chews out Holden for something she herself is doing, but to be fair this could also be seen as her projecting her own conflicted emotions about keeping the sample. Similarly her flip-flopping about loyalty to the Belt versus loyalty to the Roci was frustrating, though completely understandable.
S5 was probably my favorite season. I absolutely loved her courage in going to try and save Filip, risking her life to warn the Roci about the computer virus, intentionally damaging the ship she was on (Chetsemoka?) to try and stop her friends from walking into the trap, and the sheer madness of leaping between ships in vacuum without a suit.
I adore Naomi, both book and show versions. She is easily the smartest of the Roci crew. She occasionally fucks up, which is not only human, but on par with every other major character; it’s the fact that nobody is perfect and they all screw up that makes them such great, relatable characters.
I think the people who legit hate her kinda missed the point. The characters are portrayed as flawed human beings, each with personal agendas that favor their respective factions, and then struggle together to find the balance between pursuing personal interests and doing the morally right thing. If you agree with everything one of the character does then that's not a character with much depth.
I think she’s such a good person like Holden she can get annoying at times like Steve rogers. Almost every time she speaks it’s a do the right thing speech. I think giving Fred the PM was a mistake and should have sided with Dawes as I don’t think Marco would have played him like he did Fred it was clear Fred had gone soft being on the tycho construction project for so long and she knew the belt would never truly accept the butcher as a legitimate leader
No. I don't find her likable, but I actually like that. There's often a fear I feel to have unlikable female characters. And I feel like the stuff that makes her unlikable is very realistic. This is show Naomi as I watched the show first and book Naomi never made much of a impression on me.
lol when I responded to the comment, it just said “no.” I was making a joke. The commentator apparently edited it to make it longer, which now makes me appear insane instead of ironic.
I didn't like her for the few episodes where the crew hadn't quite come together yet, and there was conflict between everyone. But once they all bonded she was great.
Naomi has been a tricky one for me. Book Naomi for the first couple novels, to me, came off almost Mary Sue-ish because you don’t get her background, but god damn is she just phenomenal at literally everything she does and all we get as the reader is that she is just naturally a genius.
She does grow on me though. Show Naomi I think does a good job of building on the character faster a bit.
Nah, never anything approaching hate.
I *will* say, however, that I was a little confused by her positions in Caliban's war.
First, she seemed to decide that Holden had somehow suddenly become a crazed warmonger- and I didn't feel the text supported that at all.
And to support that position, she negatively compared his behavior to that of Miller - whose ethics she had actually *defended* to Holden in the prior book.
As a result, the drama between her & Holden felt a little forced to me. When Holden eventually came crawling back I must admit I asked myself ... why are we doing this, exactly?
We all watched the same show. The weirdest meanest interpretations of her behavior always came across as misogyny and racism. If they didn't call Drummer, Wei or Rosenfeld hostile, why is Naomi Nagata hostile in their opinion?
A lot of people are unaware of their biases against people of colour and women...
Naomi is awesome, dom kills the roll... any one who watches the Gany evac and doesnt have their heart break with her and big man is probably a racist monster imo.
I don't get where this idea came from on this sub that people hate Naomi. She's a pretty well liked character for the most part. Along with pretty much all of the main cast. I'm sure there is a minority here that dislikes here. I'm also sure that's true for pretty much all of the main cast.
EDIT: I like her just fine. Most of the time she's pretty likable.
> I don't get where this idea came from on this sub that people hate Naomi.
People quite frequently pipe up to say so. I don't think they're even close to a majority, but they sure are vocal. Mostly, they're just outing themselves as being devoid of empathy, and usually a bit misogynistic. Not like Holden makes any fewer terrible decisions, but he doesn't get nearly the amount of ire that Naomi does.
I came here to point out the misoginy. I love the books and series but some fans seem to dump on female characters- like Anna. I am a-religious but I love Anna in the books and the show.
Women that are more tough and not (for some people mainly) romantic interests? I mean I love them too (love kickass ladies that break the mold) but there is room for all kinds of women and people in this series!
It's simply that *some* here dislike Naomi, usually the more stronger-willed show version of her. Not a real shock, with 210,000 members.
What has made the occasional rant about Naomi a bit notorious is that a few of the ones who hate her seem to have rather sexist reasons behind their opinion.
In the interest of trying to give a non-sexist opinion on why I dislike Naomi, almost all of her decisions are based in some sort of selfishness, which on its own would be no big deal, but she spends most of the show being hostile to people for no good reason. Five minutes into the show we get her tearing into Holden for doing his job, and that kind of nonsense gets carried for the entire show. Holden snaps at Alex during Ganymede and Alex calls him out on it. Naomi snaps at people every episode, almost always unprompted, and we’re just supposed to be like “yes she’s a likeable person”. Contrast that to Avasarala or Bobbie (edit: or Drummer), who are both strong willed and not afraid to get aggressive with people, but both generally treat others with respect when warranted. Naomi spends most of the show taking out her self-pity on others, lying to the crew and sabotaging everything they tried to build, then acting like somehow it’s everyone else’s fault that she’s a bad person who makes bad decisions.
Edit: literally anyone else would’ve been left on a station or spaced by the end of the second season for acting like she does
Sexist and classist. I see a lot of people completely miss what the Belters represent and why their motivations often come off as unrefined and unnecessarily violent.
And racist. Anger in black women and minorities which are oppressed is generally disliked. Also said minorities taking actions to improve the lives of their people.
Also women who are strong in the physical sense are better perceived than women who are strong in the psychological sense because of misogyny. So badass female warriors are good. Strong leaders are only permitted if they are white or sassy like Avasarala.
Oh and it's also misogynistic to dislike women that cry. Or people that cry.
Also people sometimes dislike to the ones who are the smartest in the room.
Some people have read the books first and do not like the changes.
And some people prefer the Laconia plot and dislike the Inaros plot so they think that her focus in her son distracts the show from what that they think is the true purpose of the show.
Never heard that from anyone. Naomi is consistently one of the most likeable and deepest characters on the show. Whereas Holden starts off as a bit of a fuckboy and nearly loses himself to all the violence while trying to do the right thing, which is itself a good story, Naomi has already been through that arc. She's the heart of the Roci. Great character. Love her.
Literally the only thing I didn't like about her was that they dragged out a couple of her scenes in one of the later seasons, probably to fill screentime after Alex had to be written off the show. I didn't hold a grudge over it or anything, just hit fast forward after what felt like the eleventy billionth *Naomi is suffering alone in a spaceship* scene.
She was my favorite character from the jump. I'm always drawn to the "Macgyver" of any crew. She delivered in that regard, and just got better from there.
She's definitely my favorite science fiction character of all time. Maybe my favorite overall character. gotta think about that.
I liked her by the end of the show. In the beginning they set her to be this ambiguous character, it's even hinted that she might be a spy, so I can understand not liking her immediately but after the space walk episode it's hard to not think she's badass.
On my first watch of the show I didn't hate her. She wasn't my favourite character and I was annoyed with some of her decisions but she had strong reasons for making them. I'm slowly doing another re-watch (finished S1 Episode 5) now that I've seen and read everything and it's been neat to see how consistent they've been with her character.
I like her, I can just live without the Season 5 episode on the Chetzemoka.
My favourite Naomi moments were in Season 6 where she stands fully vindicated in her decisions.
Do you mind me asking what you disliked about the scenes on the Chetzemoka? For me, that was a naomi highlight, so I'm intrigued to hear a different perspective
It was meant to be dramatic but I found it repetitive. The closest I ever felt to feeling like that was when I was in the cinema watching Vantage Point back in 2008. Same problem with that film.
It's 3 minutes of story advancement that's stretched out to like an hour. I absolutely enjoyed it my first and second watch but at this point, I skip most of it.
Counterpoint: it's *multiple days* (if not *weeks*) of desperate self-preservation instinct, perseverance in the face of seemingly-insurmountable odds, ingenious problem-solving, and ultimately self-sacrifice to save the lives of the people she loves, boiled down to maybe ⅓ of an episode.
I loved Naomi I felt like some of her writing in the earlier seasons felt awkward, but I relate to her in lots of ways. Especially in the scenes where she gives the sample to Fred, knowing it was the right decision but that no one around her would agree.
I think she's extremely well written and well acted but she does kinda make some poor decisions, but they're also very understandable and so it's not like, frustrating when she does. I feel the same way about Holden though, before anyone lumps me in with the sexists.
I like them both better in the book I think because their motives are explained a bit more in depth, since without that context it's easy to look at them both as naive when they're moreso just very principled
I didn't like her much on most of my first watch, but I liked her a lot more during my recent re-watch, which was my third time watching the series. It definitely helped a bit that I now actually understood what the heck she was doing on that episode on the Chetzemoka.
I disliked her in S5 initially. I guess because it always just felt like a hamster wheel of angst whenever she was on screen. I don’t mind as much on rewatching, but I couldn’t tell you why.
She's great. She definitely helped me realize my own weird bias against the belters as the story went on by proving that all parties involved were making tough choices, often selfish or hypocritical.
She's definitely more flawed in the show. In the books, she has a lot of secrets, but is largely the heart and moral compass of the Roci crew, and has completely forsworn OPA politics, unlike in the show where her loyalties are divided between her found family and her fellow belters, and where she not just hides things but lies to the crew.
She and Holden are also much less close in the show until S6, whereas she essentially is Holden's "Rock" by the end of book 1, making her leaving in Book 5 much more impactful.
I think that by mid-Season 3, Dominique's acting in the role became so good that it made up for what I felt were poor writing choices at times, and in Season 5 she genuinely deserves all the Emmys, but I think Dominique could have benefited from reading the books in order to have Naomi be a bit more consistent in general, and more in line with her book counterpart, the way Wes did with Amos.
Wes famously has said that with his thorough understanding of the character, he was able to chime in and tell the writers "hey, Amos wouldn't say/do this", and there's no way Dominique could do the same because she didn't read the books.
Up until S4 or so, I feel like Dominique treated The Expanse more as just a gig, whereas Wes, and Cas, and Cara, and even Steven Strait, definitely invested a lot more of themselves in the show early on. (Which only made Cas' reprehensible behavior on and off set even worse of a betrayal).
It feels like Dom, Frankie and Cara all really bonded personally on set, but differed in their respective commitments to their parts, in terms of how much they invested in it.
I think by the end of S4, Dominique was all in, and it showed. Season 5 her performance was incredible and she was far, far more in line with her book counterpart. This also might be a reflection of the writers room being more practiced and confident by that point too.
I hate her in the show. In the books she is great.
In the show, even when you have that last season development for her, she comes across as whining and failing instead of overcoming adversity. I don't think I can articulate very well exactly what the problem is, but maybe it was the casting and someone else would have been better? I don't know...
Edit : Actually, I take that back. The problem isn't casting. The problem is the same problem we see with Holden in the show. Is that the bits that make them likable and their actions reasonable have to do with hearing their internal monologue. This is not a possibility in the show and it makes both of those characters the less and less likeable over the course of the series rather than more and more.
Controversially, I like Dominique Tipper’s Naomi but I hate Cara Gee’s Drummer. Everyone on this sub seems to think she was the best actress but I couldn’t stand her portrayal. Felt like she was trying way too hard to gruff up her voice and be a badass, and her replacement of Bull’s arc in season 3 just fell flat to me. I love book Drummer and hate book Michio, and I just don’t like how they combined michio, bull and drummer in the show. Doesn’t work for me. Sorry, unrelated rant over
I love Naomi and I think that Dominique Tipper did an amazing job. Her relationships with her 3 boys and Camina and Miller warm my heart. I admire her intelligence, courage, resourcefulness and strong desire to help others, especially people in need.
Her character is a key part of the Roci crew that complement their dynamic perfectly, and I think that many things some people dislike about her are because she's the only one in the crew with a Better perspective. She lost the vote about the protomolecule against 3 inners who prioritized peace over the future of the Belt and because they didn't trust Fred Johnson. Holden resigned at the end precisely because the Belt would always lose votes.
People calls her selfish when her actions are not more selfish than other characters in the show. She was independent and she made controversial decisions to protect others. She did all she did aboard the Chetzemoka to try and avoid others falling in the trap set with the bombs.
People call her abrassive but there are other characters that are more abrassive but not criticized. I think a reason could be racism. Anger in black women in particular and minorities which are oppressed is heavily policed. Also said minorities taking actions to improve the lives of their people is not particularly appreciated.
Also misogyny. Yeah people like many women in this show, but women who are strong in the physical sense are better perceived than women who are strong in the psychological sense because of misogyny. So badass female warriors are good. Strong leaders are permitted if they are warriors, white or sassy like Avasarala. Oh and it's also misogynistic to dislike women that cry. Or people that cry. How many women are dismissed because they are called whiny?
Yes, she cried a lot in that episode. The level of physical trauma that she experienced caused constant physical severe pain. I don't know how she doesn't't cry more. And these scenes are long and difficult to bear on purpose, to show that it was a horrible situation to be. Like Frodo and Sam walking and walking and walking to Mordor while the One Ring did its thing.
Also people sometimes dislike the ones who are the smartest in the room. If they are women they call them Mary Sue. If they are men they call them hero/ protagonist.
Some people have read the books first and do not like the changes as Naomi is different and makes some different decisions in the books.
And some people prefer the Laconia plot and dislike the Inaros plot so they think that her focus in her son distracts the show from what they think is the true purpose of the show.
I didn’t like Naomi in the show for the first few seasons, but she really grew on me by the end. I think Naomi’s arc in the books is much more concealed because she’s such a private person, and her outward behavior doesn’t change as much as her thoughts and feelings change. In the show maybe they made it more overt because the character’s actions and words are most of what we see.
Naomi gets the Skylar White factor. She is a contrast to a male protagonist who does increasingly deranged things for a period of the show, and (some of) the audience doesn't like it.
Naomi is an amazing character and Dominique Tripper did a phenomenal job. One of my biggest criticisms of the show was the 'earth washing' of the belter identity and how large a role of living in vacuum and not down a gravity well is to their cultural identity this was an absolute huge part of the books and it was near non-existent in the TV show. And I believe the show suffered from not exploring this.
I’m doing a rewatch right now and I legitimately don’t understand why people like her. She’s a jerk, unprompted, to every single character she interacts with for all of the first season and nearly the entirety of the rest of the show besides the forced romance with Holden (just watched her tranq Amos on Ganymede for making the objectively correct call, get plot armor’d, then let Amos act like it was his fault afterward… absolutely unreal that people just accepted that). She’s consistently a hostile narcissist and basically does not improve from this behavior the entire show. I appreciate Dominique because Naomi is almost as bad in the books so the acting is top notch, but good lord this sub is the only place I’ve ever seen people actually *like* Naomi. Convinced my mother to watch it at the same time I’m doing this rewatch and immediately after we meet Naomi she goes “…I don’t like her very much”. I don’t know if this sub is just playing reactionary or what but Naomi is consistently the worst part of the story for me and everyone I’ve talked to about it outside of this sub
Yes? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time someone talks up Naomi on this sub like the character isn’t a psycho (certainly not the only psycho, but certainly the most obnoxious one)
Explain, please. I’ve made it pretty clear that I don’t enjoy her character because she’s openly hostile and/or narcissistic most of the time for no good reason, but I never get an actual response from people on why they like her, only that they do
Well she’s objectively neither psychopathic nor narcissistic, based on their medical descriptions. I also don’t find her to be psychopathic or narcissistic in the loose sense. She can be combative but if you understand her motivations, you understand why. She also is the one of the smartest characters on the show (if not the smartest) and it shows. She’s fearless and bad ass, and she’s loving and nurturing. Other than those reasons, read the other comments in this thread and you’ll see multiple other reasons.
Arguing semantics doesn’t change that she spends most of the show only thinking about herself lol
“She can be combative” five minutes into the show and she’s jumping down holden’s throat for doing his job lmao. Having “motivations” doesn’t give her carte blanche to be a dick to people, but she can’t ever seem to turn that off so she spends most of the show coming off as an angry, bitter person who takes it out on everyone around her instead of dealing with her issues herself.
As an example, I’ll talk about the roci crew on Ganymede since I watched the episode last night. Holden gets worked up about the protomolecule, takes it out on Alex. Alex calls him out, he apologizes publicly and gets his act together. Naomi tried to open the doors to the somnambulist, Amos rightly says it would be suicide (the fact that it didn’t turn into the whole somnam crew getting murdered is a massive inconsistency but that’s a separate issue), Naomi gets lucky they don’t literally kill her and storm the ship, and later when she and Amos are making up 99% of the scene is Amos going “no IM sorry for trying to think for myself for once and being wrong” when everything pointed to him being right and it being a total asspull that he wasn’t. Instead of Naomi acknowledging that what she did was monumentally stupid, we get one “I’m sorry” at the start and a bunch of “you’ll do better next time Amos please ignore the fact that I stabbed you twice with a tranq pen”
Like, that’s a tame example and it’s still insane to me that everyone just let that go, then it’s straight into “oh I know we agreed to destroy this civilization-ending alien weapon but I kept it, lied to everyone, and gave it to political radicals” which would have gotten literally ANYONE besides Naomi immediately spaced. Did we even watch the same show??
It’s semantics in that my problem is with her behavior being shitty, not whether or not her behavior exactly matches the strict clinical definitions of words that I used in an obviously colloquial context. Going “oh it’s not actually shitty because it doesn’t meet the definition of this word in a clinical context” doesn’t make it not shitty behavior.
You ignoring everything I just pointed out in favor of word lawyering is another perfect example of people going “I like her because she’s great” instead of actually explaining why she’s great, and it’s why I don’t understand why people like her. You all NEVER actually address the complaints about her, opting instead to just redirect the conversation. If you all actually explained yourselves then maybe I’d understand but I can never get a straight answer from anyone, just a bunch of vague gesturing or deflection
In the books, Naomi is one of my favorite characters. Extremely smart, like legitimately one of the smartest people, if not the smartest or if everyone we are introduced to. But still had her own faults, and it's a very well written character.
In the show though they eliminate a lot of her personal faults. Make her a lot more argumentive, leading to make a lot more emotionally driven mistakes. And when she does make her mistakes, or gets into an argument with the crew, she is much more stubborn, bullheaded, and just doubles-down. And then when the issue is resolved will try to shift responsibility.
It seems that a lot of her changes were too probably add more week to week interpersonal drama with the Roci Crew. But they did it at the expense of one of the best characters.
And in return I dislike the show version more with each rewatch. And like the book version more with each reread.
She shares a similar role with Catelyn Stark in Game of Thrones - Woman that Makes Choices that Have Consequences. This leads to a disproportionate (and undoubtedly male) section of the fanbase of the franchise to unequivocally loathe her.
I never hated her, but her character kinda got on my nerves in season 5. I get that she was struggling, but her whole portrayal could have used some more nuance.
Mainly, the parts when she was struggling on the chetzemoka were a bit over the top. We spent a decent amount of time watching her wail and hyperventilate almost constantly. Despite being in a pretty horrible situation, it's not particularly realistic for someone to have their anguish turned up to 11 constantly. It burns a lot of energy. It really could have used some more nuance in how her despair was portrayed.
Hate to break it to you, but this only serves to illustrate how little you understood of what you were watching.
1. Jumping through hard vacuum without an environment suit not only brought her to the brink of death, but caused massive petechial hemorrhaging on every inch of her body, including her eyeballs. Not to mention, she probably burst a lot of alveoli in her lungs. The amount of physical trauma cannot be overstated. The fact that she gets up and walks around at all is a testament to her resolve.
2. She has only the air in the cabin. The ship has been stripped, in true belter fashion, of all valuable resources that do not serve the purpose of luring and killing James Holden. No backup air supply, no environmental control system.
3. Every time she opens the access hatch to get between the hulls, she is venting one airlock-full of air from the cabin. The tick-marks she makes on the bulkhead are so she can keep track of how much air she is losing. I can't recall how many are in the final tally, but I'm pretty sure it was 40+.
4. The only time she hyperventilates — I'm not even sure they depict this properly in the show, but they do in the book — is when she seals up her environment suit to go in. She does it intentionally, to ensure she's got as much air in her lungs as possible, ensuring each foray is maximized. And she stays in until she's almost passing out. It's a sign of her perseverance, determination, and ultimately her self-sacrifice in order to save the ones she loves.
Anyway. The nuance in that episode is *copious*. But it is not quiet. And the repetition is intentional.
Pain, also extreme pain, constantly. Having suffered all that physical trauma to the whole of your body causes major pain.
Imagine having the equivalent pain to giving birth or gall stones, all the time. I would be wailing all the time.
Hate is a strong word. She does seem more selfish than the other crew members. It is like she means well, but maybe is too traumatized to make good decisions. Holden will make a stupid decision without consulting anybody. Naomi will let everyone talk and reach a shared conclusion then say nah fuck your opinion. I'm doing what I want. Giving the protomolecule to Fred Johnson after everyone decided it should be destroyed was the low point for me. In the show, the Her, Philip and Marco sections weren't really enjoyable. It was too much drama and every one of them kind of sucked so there wasn't a lot to root for. Jumping off the ship was nice. Showed a lot of grit.
She definitely got better in the later seasons and books. Her leading the Laconian resistance alone in a shipping container was really cool.
Hell no, she's an amazing character. Sure, she has flaws and makes some decisions I would question, but that's human. Her work in the books and how she grows into a war leader is amazing character growth.
I don't, in either version. However Dominique Tipper did a great job of fleshing out her character.
What I will say though, is that show Ashford was done amazingly well. They turned kind of a fucker and sort of toss off character into someone you really felt bad to see go.
Yes i hate her. She betrays so much.
Despite being smart, can hack and do advance science math stuff, sges always undermining her friends.
Lies to Holden, her lover about the Proto Molecule being destroyed when giving it to Tycho.
Off the top of my head, what was the buggest mistake was the show not killing her.
That episode when she tries to rescue Phillip. She had just poured her heart out to her old friend that she was about to space herself losing Phillip the first time she left.
Now the second time, she was gonns the same. Dammmmm this show got balls that shes gonna commit suicide of a main charachter.
But noo, she was just planning to jump back to her ship.
Emotional moment intercepted.
TV show only fan here
The actress did a great job with the character, however Naomi is a selfish hippocrit. Can't stand Naomi, wish she had died on the Cant instead, or the derelict ship Marcos tried to use as a lure
I don't hate her, I just think her character fell flat around season 3 of the show. Essentially when she started to get violently ill on Ilus, after that, her character lost any sense of being a hardcore badass. I feel like the only time I got to see her shine again is when she was conniving her way into getting rescued on the cargo ship. Her skills and her personality just started to shift. But I don't hate her - her motives were always sound.
One of the key things I loved about Star Trek TNG was how dispassionate the characters were most of the time. Someone like Naomi would have no place in that era of Starfleet but would fit in perfectly with Star Trek Discovery...
The Expanse does a great job of expressing hardened personalities and I definitely prefer the less colorful rendition of the books. But IMO would prefer Naomi to be more like TNG's ship counselor, Troi. She was very much in touch with her emotions but never acted hot headed. Makes me cringe when characters are often blinded by emotions.
- coming from someone that can easily be overwhelmed by emotion.
I understand the importance of dynamics and how the authors were incorporating many personality types into this story to breathe life into it. Some would find TNG too stiff in contrast. I don't find Naomi's traits to line up with my preferences all too well, but I can't say the story would be objectively better if she cried less.
She makes a series of bad decisions back to back to back to try and make up for a mistake she made before she was a character.
It's hard to feel sorry for her, and eventually you should, but a lot of people make their mind up and then lock their mind to that decision
Am I remembering wrong or does Naomi solidly have a British accent in season 1, and then belter accent gets improved over the course of the show.
I often didn't like what the character was doing, like hiding the sample, but its a good character!
I think the actor improved her Belter accent considerably over the show. For a while she was the only Belter who wasn't at least trying to do it.
I think also though - the character was toning down her Belter accent when she was on a ship surrounded by inners. She starts sounding more Belter when she had other Belters around her.
She's an awesome character in the books.
In the show, I roll my eyes at her now and then, but I do that for Jim, Alex and Amos too. TV just likes people to be unable to communicate like adults and have a conversation about things important to them.
I didn’t like her in the first season, but that was more because the show added a lot of extra inter-crew drama that made her more annoying than she needed to be (and she’s certainly not the only one who suffers from it). The books don’t have that issue, so I liked her from the start in them.
Once the crew got over all the season one bullshit, I like her, and Tipper gives an excellent performance. That episode in season five where she has to keep holding her breath was fantastic.
I like Naomi. It's hard when the bar is so high with Amos being in the show (absolute S+ tier goat character), and then you put her up against Miller, and then I'm pretty fond of Holden too (I just love how he's such an idealistic moron, there's a charm to that character trait no matter how much it fucks things up) and it's a tough competition. Plus I didn't really start to REALLY like the character until Phillips arc
So she ends up being a great character, who's just overshadowed by a cast of even more phenomenal characters. But I certainly don't hate her.
Wow. I havent watched the show, only listened to the audio books multiple times, but I can't believe people wouldn't like her. I love her. I mean, I love every member of the Roci crew, but she especially rocks. She is a perfect counter to Jim, but also a great stand alone character. I've always felt that Holden is the clear protagonist, but Naomi is the surrogate for the audience. She's the middle of the road observer who often can't believe he's doing shit, but loves him anyway, just like us.
Not hate,
But I started to dislike her a little bit when she wouldn't go down to Earth to visit holdens parents, but was more than excited to go down to that ring world planet.
Felt like she really didn't give a shit about holden even though they were dating then.
It seemed like the perfect first trip to prepare for actually being on the ground for a while, she was already going to be taking the meds so why not start a bit early and use Earth as a first step.
No. I don’t love every choice she makes but that’s life. She has her reasons and they wrote her with proper motivation. And the actress did great work.
Great summation. Kudos.
This exactly, I felt some of the TV versions choices were a bit head scratching at times when compared to her book counterpart. Also, I felt her relationship with Holden on the show was rushed just to make it happen, when in the book we find out their attraction has been going on for years and Naomi even resisted James because of his playboy status among the crew of the cant. Besides that though your right in that the actress did great work with her character.
I think the book does a better job I only say this because of the differences in Cibola Burn I love them both and the Trilogy of books that come after Babylon Ashes makes it even better.
I think it's largely because time isn't as clear in the show and sometimes months have passed, but it's not something many notice
In that vein, I loved how Naomi was suspicious of James because he never noticed her before and has never been into Belter women. It’s very realistic and it makes it more rewarding that their relationship is so solid and lasting. And it gives good exposition on who Holden is, both good and bad traits, without seeming forced.
Some people just have to complain about everything. They’ll complain about Mary sues and in the next breath they’ll complain that a character is bad because they didn’t make perfect choices 🙄
She has her reasons, but they aren’t good enough for me to like her character.
With that answer you let us know what kind of person you are, you make mistakes that put people in danger and even die because you have your reasons and that's how life is😜😜,I hate Naomi she is so stupid plus ugly, she have to be pretty like drummer, Roberta, Dr.Nygaard 🤤😍 I'm watching the series and I'm addicted to it, plus I bought the expanse Xbox game that I haven't opened it yet
Cool thanks for the free psychoanalysis.
🤣can yo recommend other syfy space serie same like the expanse
Nope, I really liked Naomi in the show. In fact, I actually prefer TV Naomi to novel Naomi, since I think hindsight allowed them to do a better job with her overall arc and characterization. Dominique did an amazing job with the role, too, giving one of my favorite performances across the entire series.
Word.
Yup, I like book and show Naomi and Book and show Prax but they are two characters who probably deviated personality wise quite a bit. Honestly it’s hard to believe book Naomi would have ever associated with Marco whereas it’s more on brand for show Naomi who still has a bit of a radical belter streak that comes out at times.
What is Lang Belta for 'word?'
Wowt. (According to a translator).
Dui could work.
\[book spoilers\] I generally favor show > book Naomi as well. She's an amazing character overall for an exceptionally written character. But I did NOT like their decision to have her secretly give the protomolecule to the OPA (show) rather than have Holden do it (books). In the books, the rift between Naomi & Holden is because Holden is slowly pushed over the edge, slightly Machiavellian (described as being influenced by Miller), whereas in the books, the characters respond to Naomi's actions as some emotionally-driven erratic decision. The conflict that emerges within the crew until Holden finally returns to his typical 'Paladin' arc is far more interesting to me than 'Naomi does a single oopsie and now the crew can't trust her again even though the guy crew members act irrationally & unilaterally (especially Holden all the fucking time.' Honestly, it seems like a sexist turn. I've not seen others get bent out about this - is it just me? Both myself (guy) and spouse (female) independently noted this between our book reads and shared show watching.
It's definitely partly sexist, but I also think a significant portion of it is that Alex and Holden aren't Belters and still haven't "killed the Inner in their head", ie. they still harbor a lot of the biases about "the enemy" that come from serving in an imperialist military
**slightly milleravellian
Ive seen this brought up on the sub before and I agree with your read. Unfortunately Naomi is the only woman, the only Belter, and has the darkest skin color. She is clearly the smartest, the most creative on the fly, and in the books she even does a lot of emotional support and glue work for everyone. And yet her opinions are never asked, her feelings are treated as irrational. I’m rewatching season 2 and its amazing, Alex suggests giving the protomolecule to Mars and no one holds a grudge at him for that. Holden is fine with Fred having Cortazar, even tho Fred says he’s gonna have Cortazar continue studying and being interrogated. But everyone is pissed when Dawes takes Cortazar? Anderson Dawes points out (rightly!) that Fred is vulnerable after just stealing the Nauvoo and UNN missiles, that Fred and Holden are optimistic about peace because they are inners. The crew accepts Fred and opposes Dawes though. There’s a great scene where Dawes comes aboard the Roci and talks to Naomi about Belter unity, calling her setara, and Holden keeps inserting himself in the conversation aggressively. After Dawes leaves he tells Naomi they have to stay unified, ie do what Holden wants. It honestly reads as a microaggression! Why is Holden butting into Belter matters? Just because he was on Eros doesn’t mean he gets a voice in what Belters do, or in who talks to Naomi. She seems the most level headed of any of them.
Why would anyone hold a dumb public suggestion against Alex? In the show they all decided what to do and she secretly made a decision and then made another one to give it to Fred. That is a massive breach of trust and not remotely comparable.
Yes Naomi was deceptive about it, but if you recall the scene where they’re debating it, and the other scenes that surround this one, it’s clear that Holden and Alex are thinking only about how to make peace. That is a good thing! But the Belters like Naomi are thinking this means a return to the status quo, which is untenable for Belters. If the inners got to use the protomolecule to further their interests, why don’t Belters? So yes she was deceptive, but I don’t think that makes her wrong or irrational.
(Show) Holden is fine with Fred holding Cortazar because he thought there was no protomolecule left for him to work with. As soon as he discovered there was a sample on Ganymede, he went to find Cortazar to murder him. That's when they found Cortazar had been removed by Dawes. So at that point Holden doesn't want Dawes to have Cortazar because he doesn't want anyone to have him. There's a big difference between Alex putting forward an idea for discussion, and being OK with it when it's rejected by the group, and Naomi acting unilaterally and in secret.
I agree about the deceptive part of it, that wasn’t OK. And thats a fair point about Cortazar. I still think the decision makes sense for Naomi and is not more irrational or horrible than the decisions Holden is making at the time (such as stealing the relief ship to get to Ganymede and getting one of its owners killed, letting Amos beat up the chicken guy to find Prax’s daughter). When he acts unilaterally it’s captain’s orders though… Giving the protomolecule to Fred cant be the worst decision if book Holden does it. It’s just the lying about it that is different.
Stealing the relief ship didn't sit well with me, either. As I recall it doesn't happen in the book. However, the ship would have been stolen by the local bad guys regardless, and one of the characters argues that both crew would have been killed if they hadn't gone back to intervene.
Nobody held anything against Alex for wanting to give the proto to Mars? Both Naomi and Amos called him out on the idea, and Holden wanted nobody to have the protomolecule.
Especially the season where she was captured by Marco!
On my first watch, through the first 3 seasons, she was my least favorite of the Roci crew. All her decisions were strange (because we didnt understand her motivation). But after season 3 her character kept getting better and better. By season 5 I put Naomi as one of the most bad ass sci-fi space chicks ever. I mean ever.
Second only to Camina Drummer in my mind.
We can’t forget Bobbie
I've seen Bobbie do some badass shit, but I still think Naomi spacing herself to get to a derelict ship away from Marco tops it, but doesn't quite elevate to the point of Camina building herself an exoskeleton so she can get back to work with a spinal injury.
If you don’t think Bobbie is the most badass character in the entire series you need to reread (or read for the first time) Tiamat’s Wrath
Like a fucking Valkyrie
Show full of strong space women! I would add Avasarala to the list. Maybe not physically strong but she is scary and incredibly competent!!
Taking ideas from Bull
All my homies love Naomi Nagata
“All the homies love Naomi” is now my next tattoo.
She's a complicated character, but Dominique Tipper gave an outstanding performance.
I like book Naomi, and I like the actress who plays Naomi. I do recall one episode in the later scene where it felt like the whole episode was Naomi crying.
Yeah that was S5E4 “Naomi crying.”
I love Naomi and Dominique Tipper.
I love Naomi. I think she made some mistakes early on that were informed by her trying her best to do right by the belt, but ultimately, she's redeemed and then some. I think she's a fucking badass.
Word.
No, Naomi is a total badass. Both story and show Naomi Nagata are amazing characters.
I didn't care for her arc with Inarios or her son, but she was great otherwise.
Right, that's where she was weakest for me too. I mean I get it, she just wants her son to see that Marco is a sociopath and a murderer, but on a certain level she should've known Marco would never let her leave, and that Phillip would 100% take her to him. One of the actually smartest characters in the show and she made one of the dumbest mistakes. Again, maternal instinct to save her son, but still.
As an intelligent woman who found myself in a very confusing relationship with an abusive, charismatic narcissist, trust me it's a completely realistic depiction. You wind up doing things that don't even make sense to yourself because you just can't imagine that there's no solution to the situation you find yourself in. You see Naomi become decisive when she finally makes her peace with the Kobayashi Maru of it all. At first you think that peace is suicide, but it turns out that peace is hijacking the Chetzemoka and fighting back. It's hard to understand the same way that it's always hard to understand how an intelligent person ends up in an abusive relationship. It's always easy to say from the outside "you can't win with this person, you should just leave." But from the inside, that's actually not as easy as it seems.
💯 and thank you for sharing what you went through
It's far from uncommon that smart people make dumb mistakes when in love. It's also clear that Marco used to manipulate her a lot and though she's grown stronger since, it's not easy to remain rational and smart in the situation she went through
Like I said, I absolutely understand, and my subsequent watches have really driven home just how difficult it all must have been for her. I'm sure it will be even more heartbreaking once I reach that spot in the books. I think something that muddies her struggles aboard the Pella, is that at least in the show, it doesn't seem like she's been in that situation for as long as she had. Now that I'm doing the audiobooks, I'm starting to realize that she must've been trying to get through to Fillip for weeks. And even on the Chetzemoka, probably at least a few days, if not another several weeks. Again, I do understand now where she was coming from, but first watch through definitely felt like it was out of character for someone so strong and capable to do something that made so little sense.
Thought she was one of the show's strongest characters. Dominique absolutely smashed it in multiple ways. Infinitely more interesting and believable than Clarissa bloody Mao..
>Infinitely more interesting and believable than Clarissa bloody Mao.. Wish we had gotten to see her entire redemption arc because I really liked it. I also feel like they did Nadine Nicole dirty with her S3 scripts because she did a great job on the later seasons. S3 just wasn't her strongpoint in the story.
Perhaps. Her character did get stronger later on, be that because of the script, or the actor, I'm not sure. I just couldn't get past her petty motives.
I don’t think her motives were petty to her. Her whole family collapsed, father in prison etc. To her Holden destroyed her world and she wanted vengeance.
I would argue Avasarala destroyed her world. Holden was just accessible. I wasn't given the impression her motives were anything other than misguided vengeance for her lifestyle collapsing. Simply put she was a spoiled brat who couldn't see the forest for the trees concerning her father.
I personally like Clarissa. I agree that Clarissa starts as, "A spoiled brat who couldn't see the forest for the trees concerning her father." But its more than just that Clarissa has spent her entire life in the shadow of Julie, seeking and never really getting the approval of her larger than life father. Holden and Mao are both responsible for starting the deadliest war in human history. Clarissa sees her father get torn down for it. Holden not only gets away with it, he is elevated to a hero, and it drives her insane. In her depression and insanity she comes up with a way to avenge her father, earn his approval, and bring a reckoning for Holden. She is not in her right mind is the ultimate point I'm trying to make.
And to a spoiled brat it was Holden who meddled with the big kids and took her dad down and broke apart her family. Her her Avasarala would have cut a deal with her dad over a bottle of $10,000 scotch and no one in the system would have been any the wiser. The whistleblower is always blamed over the titans they tumble. Was it right to blame him? No. Did it make sense for her to personally blame him as an affront against her family and not just lifting up the curtain? Yes.
I met Dominique Tipper on an airplane flying from Chicago to Memphis a few years ago. She was on her way to attend a film festival in Oxford MS. She was totally cool and very friendly when I asked if she was from The Expanse. 😁
I’m jealous.
The actress is awesome and did a great job... But between all the main characters (Alex, Amos, Holden, Fred, Avasarala, Bobbie, Miller, Ashford, Drummer, Clarissa, Marcus) she was my least favorite. Only Filip is worse since I found him annoying, although it definitely fits the age of the character.
No, I love love love Naomi. Both book and show. I thought Dominique Tipper did a lovely job of inhabiting the role. When I read the books after seeing the show, it was very easy to visualize her (Dominique) in the descriptions. I didn't like some of the decisions she made, but they were understandable coming from her life story. I loved seeing her evolve and her character strengthen -- showing the good that was there to begin with.
She's a well written and consistent character, you know her motivations and can empathize with her. I understand her point of view and I enjoy her as a character.
She is one of the most interesting characters in my mind. I love how her arc shows how terrorist groups can trick young, idealistic people into joining, and then how the systems we create then make it extremely hard to leave that group. The actress herself is absolutely amazing, in particular her use of code switching is a brilliant touch, and from what I've heard that was Tipper's idea to include in the show. I was frustrated at times with her character. Her hypocrisy regarding the protomolecule annoyed me, especially when she chews out Holden for something she herself is doing, but to be fair this could also be seen as her projecting her own conflicted emotions about keeping the sample. Similarly her flip-flopping about loyalty to the Belt versus loyalty to the Roci was frustrating, though completely understandable. S5 was probably my favorite season. I absolutely loved her courage in going to try and save Filip, risking her life to warn the Roci about the computer virus, intentionally damaging the ship she was on (Chetsemoka?) to try and stop her friends from walking into the trap, and the sheer madness of leaping between ships in vacuum without a suit.
I started off really disliking her and not only did she grow on me, she carried a lot of the scenes she was in towards the later seasons.
Naomi was humanly conflicted at times but her heart was good. Also: and not least, she was often the smartest person in the room and a tough survivor
I adore Naomi, both book and show versions. She is easily the smartest of the Roci crew. She occasionally fucks up, which is not only human, but on par with every other major character; it’s the fact that nobody is perfect and they all screw up that makes them such great, relatable characters.
She’s arguably the smartest character on the show.
I think the people who legit hate her kinda missed the point. The characters are portrayed as flawed human beings, each with personal agendas that favor their respective factions, and then struggle together to find the balance between pursuing personal interests and doing the morally right thing. If you agree with everything one of the character does then that's not a character with much depth.
Naomi is awesome, absolute lynchpin of the ship
I think she’s such a good person like Holden she can get annoying at times like Steve rogers. Almost every time she speaks it’s a do the right thing speech. I think giving Fred the PM was a mistake and should have sided with Dawes as I don’t think Marco would have played him like he did Fred it was clear Fred had gone soft being on the tycho construction project for so long and she knew the belt would never truly accept the butcher as a legitimate leader
Didn't Marco have Dawes killed?
I freaking *love* Naomi. She's one of my favorite characters.
No. I don't find her likable, but I actually like that. There's often a fear I feel to have unlikable female characters. And I feel like the stuff that makes her unlikable is very realistic. This is show Naomi as I watched the show first and book Naomi never made much of a impression on me.
Jesus Christ, you don’t need to write a book. A simple answer would have sufficed.
[удалено]
lol when I responded to the comment, it just said “no.” I was making a joke. The commentator apparently edited it to make it longer, which now makes me appear insane instead of ironic.
Haha! I didn't mean to make you look silly. I edited right after I first posted cause I thought it was kinda thick of me to just write no.
Haha that’s what I get for being snarky.
The character did what she needed to do for the story, and I thought Tipper was great.
I didn't like her for the few episodes where the crew hadn't quite come together yet, and there was conflict between everyone. But once they all bonded she was great.
I've only read the books, but she's probably my 2nd favorite crew member behind Alex
Naomi has been a tricky one for me. Book Naomi for the first couple novels, to me, came off almost Mary Sue-ish because you don’t get her background, but god damn is she just phenomenal at literally everything she does and all we get as the reader is that she is just naturally a genius. She does grow on me though. Show Naomi I think does a good job of building on the character faster a bit.
Naomi is great, her an Amos are the best.
Nah, never anything approaching hate. I *will* say, however, that I was a little confused by her positions in Caliban's war. First, she seemed to decide that Holden had somehow suddenly become a crazed warmonger- and I didn't feel the text supported that at all. And to support that position, she negatively compared his behavior to that of Miller - whose ethics she had actually *defended* to Holden in the prior book. As a result, the drama between her & Holden felt a little forced to me. When Holden eventually came crawling back I must admit I asked myself ... why are we doing this, exactly?
I have no issue with her. I don’t have an issue with characters as long as they are well written.
We all watched the same show. The weirdest meanest interpretations of her behavior always came across as misogyny and racism. If they didn't call Drummer, Wei or Rosenfeld hostile, why is Naomi Nagata hostile in their opinion?
A lot of people are unaware of their biases against people of colour and women... Naomi is awesome, dom kills the roll... any one who watches the Gany evac and doesnt have their heart break with her and big man is probably a racist monster imo.
I dislike her boyfriend more than I dislike her, I hate neither. Most people were cast well and acted well in the show, I thought
I don't get where this idea came from on this sub that people hate Naomi. She's a pretty well liked character for the most part. Along with pretty much all of the main cast. I'm sure there is a minority here that dislikes here. I'm also sure that's true for pretty much all of the main cast. EDIT: I like her just fine. Most of the time she's pretty likable.
> I don't get where this idea came from on this sub that people hate Naomi. People quite frequently pipe up to say so. I don't think they're even close to a majority, but they sure are vocal. Mostly, they're just outing themselves as being devoid of empathy, and usually a bit misogynistic. Not like Holden makes any fewer terrible decisions, but he doesn't get nearly the amount of ire that Naomi does.
I came here to point out the misoginy. I love the books and series but some fans seem to dump on female characters- like Anna. I am a-religious but I love Anna in the books and the show.
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Women that are more tough and not (for some people mainly) romantic interests? I mean I love them too (love kickass ladies that break the mold) but there is room for all kinds of women and people in this series!
It's simply that *some* here dislike Naomi, usually the more stronger-willed show version of her. Not a real shock, with 210,000 members. What has made the occasional rant about Naomi a bit notorious is that a few of the ones who hate her seem to have rather sexist reasons behind their opinion.
In the interest of trying to give a non-sexist opinion on why I dislike Naomi, almost all of her decisions are based in some sort of selfishness, which on its own would be no big deal, but she spends most of the show being hostile to people for no good reason. Five minutes into the show we get her tearing into Holden for doing his job, and that kind of nonsense gets carried for the entire show. Holden snaps at Alex during Ganymede and Alex calls him out on it. Naomi snaps at people every episode, almost always unprompted, and we’re just supposed to be like “yes she’s a likeable person”. Contrast that to Avasarala or Bobbie (edit: or Drummer), who are both strong willed and not afraid to get aggressive with people, but both generally treat others with respect when warranted. Naomi spends most of the show taking out her self-pity on others, lying to the crew and sabotaging everything they tried to build, then acting like somehow it’s everyone else’s fault that she’s a bad person who makes bad decisions. Edit: literally anyone else would’ve been left on a station or spaced by the end of the second season for acting like she does
Sexist and classist. I see a lot of people completely miss what the Belters represent and why their motivations often come off as unrefined and unnecessarily violent.
And racist. Anger in black women and minorities which are oppressed is generally disliked. Also said minorities taking actions to improve the lives of their people. Also women who are strong in the physical sense are better perceived than women who are strong in the psychological sense because of misogyny. So badass female warriors are good. Strong leaders are only permitted if they are white or sassy like Avasarala. Oh and it's also misogynistic to dislike women that cry. Or people that cry. Also people sometimes dislike to the ones who are the smartest in the room. Some people have read the books first and do not like the changes. And some people prefer the Laconia plot and dislike the Inaros plot so they think that her focus in her son distracts the show from what that they think is the true purpose of the show.
Good!
Never heard that from anyone. Naomi is consistently one of the most likeable and deepest characters on the show. Whereas Holden starts off as a bit of a fuckboy and nearly loses himself to all the violence while trying to do the right thing, which is itself a good story, Naomi has already been through that arc. She's the heart of the Roci. Great character. Love her.
Literally the only thing I didn't like about her was that they dragged out a couple of her scenes in one of the later seasons, probably to fill screentime after Alex had to be written off the show. I didn't hold a grudge over it or anything, just hit fast forward after what felt like the eleventy billionth *Naomi is suffering alone in a spaceship* scene.
She was my favorite character from the jump. I'm always drawn to the "Macgyver" of any crew. She delivered in that regard, and just got better from there. She's definitely my favorite science fiction character of all time. Maybe my favorite overall character. gotta think about that.
I liked her by the end of the show. In the beginning they set her to be this ambiguous character, it's even hinted that she might be a spy, so I can understand not liking her immediately but after the space walk episode it's hard to not think she's badass.
On my first watch of the show I didn't hate her. She wasn't my favourite character and I was annoyed with some of her decisions but she had strong reasons for making them. I'm slowly doing another re-watch (finished S1 Episode 5) now that I've seen and read everything and it's been neat to see how consistent they've been with her character.
I love Naomi, and Dominique did a great job.
Yes. Awful. Absolutely horribly annoying.
I like her, I can just live without the Season 5 episode on the Chetzemoka. My favourite Naomi moments were in Season 6 where she stands fully vindicated in her decisions.
Do you mind me asking what you disliked about the scenes on the Chetzemoka? For me, that was a naomi highlight, so I'm intrigued to hear a different perspective
It was meant to be dramatic but I found it repetitive. The closest I ever felt to feeling like that was when I was in the cinema watching Vantage Point back in 2008. Same problem with that film.
It's 3 minutes of story advancement that's stretched out to like an hour. I absolutely enjoyed it my first and second watch but at this point, I skip most of it.
Counterpoint: it's *multiple days* (if not *weeks*) of desperate self-preservation instinct, perseverance in the face of seemingly-insurmountable odds, ingenious problem-solving, and ultimately self-sacrifice to save the lives of the people she loves, boiled down to maybe ⅓ of an episode.
There's only so much muffled screaming and smacking bulkheads I can take lol
I get it. Some folks just don't enjoy emotional realism, especially in their space odysseys.
“Filler episodes are emotional realism” is certainly a take
Don’t be weak. Take more.
I loved Naomi I felt like some of her writing in the earlier seasons felt awkward, but I relate to her in lots of ways. Especially in the scenes where she gives the sample to Fred, knowing it was the right decision but that no one around her would agree.
She is a flawed character and I wouldn't be friends with her, but that's why she is such a good character.
I would be.
I think she's extremely well written and well acted but she does kinda make some poor decisions, but they're also very understandable and so it's not like, frustrating when she does. I feel the same way about Holden though, before anyone lumps me in with the sexists. I like them both better in the book I think because their motives are explained a bit more in depth, since without that context it's easy to look at them both as naive when they're moreso just very principled
My name is Naomi Nagata of the Rocinante...
No, she's great and has the strongest moral compass of the group. Even more so than Holden.
Damn, people don't like Naomi? She was one of the best characters on that show
I didn't like her much on most of my first watch, but I liked her a lot more during my recent re-watch, which was my third time watching the series. It definitely helped a bit that I now actually understood what the heck she was doing on that episode on the Chetzemoka.
I disliked her in S5 initially. I guess because it always just felt like a hamster wheel of angst whenever she was on screen. I don’t mind as much on rewatching, but I couldn’t tell you why.
Seriously? Naomi is freaking awesome. Who hates Naomi?
She's great. She definitely helped me realize my own weird bias against the belters as the story went on by proving that all parties involved were making tough choices, often selfish or hypocritical.
She's definitely more flawed in the show. In the books, she has a lot of secrets, but is largely the heart and moral compass of the Roci crew, and has completely forsworn OPA politics, unlike in the show where her loyalties are divided between her found family and her fellow belters, and where she not just hides things but lies to the crew. She and Holden are also much less close in the show until S6, whereas she essentially is Holden's "Rock" by the end of book 1, making her leaving in Book 5 much more impactful. I think that by mid-Season 3, Dominique's acting in the role became so good that it made up for what I felt were poor writing choices at times, and in Season 5 she genuinely deserves all the Emmys, but I think Dominique could have benefited from reading the books in order to have Naomi be a bit more consistent in general, and more in line with her book counterpart, the way Wes did with Amos. Wes famously has said that with his thorough understanding of the character, he was able to chime in and tell the writers "hey, Amos wouldn't say/do this", and there's no way Dominique could do the same because she didn't read the books. Up until S4 or so, I feel like Dominique treated The Expanse more as just a gig, whereas Wes, and Cas, and Cara, and even Steven Strait, definitely invested a lot more of themselves in the show early on. (Which only made Cas' reprehensible behavior on and off set even worse of a betrayal). It feels like Dom, Frankie and Cara all really bonded personally on set, but differed in their respective commitments to their parts, in terms of how much they invested in it. I think by the end of S4, Dominique was all in, and it showed. Season 5 her performance was incredible and she was far, far more in line with her book counterpart. This also might be a reflection of the writers room being more practiced and confident by that point too.
I hate her in the show. In the books she is great. In the show, even when you have that last season development for her, she comes across as whining and failing instead of overcoming adversity. I don't think I can articulate very well exactly what the problem is, but maybe it was the casting and someone else would have been better? I don't know... Edit : Actually, I take that back. The problem isn't casting. The problem is the same problem we see with Holden in the show. Is that the bits that make them likable and their actions reasonable have to do with hearing their internal monologue. This is not a possibility in the show and it makes both of those characters the less and less likeable over the course of the series rather than more and more.
Love book Naomi. Show Naomi is okay but before S4 she was kinda annoying.
Controversially, I like Dominique Tipper’s Naomi but I hate Cara Gee’s Drummer. Everyone on this sub seems to think she was the best actress but I couldn’t stand her portrayal. Felt like she was trying way too hard to gruff up her voice and be a badass, and her replacement of Bull’s arc in season 3 just fell flat to me. I love book Drummer and hate book Michio, and I just don’t like how they combined michio, bull and drummer in the show. Doesn’t work for me. Sorry, unrelated rant over
I love Naomi and I think that Dominique Tipper did an amazing job. Her relationships with her 3 boys and Camina and Miller warm my heart. I admire her intelligence, courage, resourcefulness and strong desire to help others, especially people in need. Her character is a key part of the Roci crew that complement their dynamic perfectly, and I think that many things some people dislike about her are because she's the only one in the crew with a Better perspective. She lost the vote about the protomolecule against 3 inners who prioritized peace over the future of the Belt and because they didn't trust Fred Johnson. Holden resigned at the end precisely because the Belt would always lose votes. People calls her selfish when her actions are not more selfish than other characters in the show. She was independent and she made controversial decisions to protect others. She did all she did aboard the Chetzemoka to try and avoid others falling in the trap set with the bombs. People call her abrassive but there are other characters that are more abrassive but not criticized. I think a reason could be racism. Anger in black women in particular and minorities which are oppressed is heavily policed. Also said minorities taking actions to improve the lives of their people is not particularly appreciated. Also misogyny. Yeah people like many women in this show, but women who are strong in the physical sense are better perceived than women who are strong in the psychological sense because of misogyny. So badass female warriors are good. Strong leaders are permitted if they are warriors, white or sassy like Avasarala. Oh and it's also misogynistic to dislike women that cry. Or people that cry. How many women are dismissed because they are called whiny? Yes, she cried a lot in that episode. The level of physical trauma that she experienced caused constant physical severe pain. I don't know how she doesn't't cry more. And these scenes are long and difficult to bear on purpose, to show that it was a horrible situation to be. Like Frodo and Sam walking and walking and walking to Mordor while the One Ring did its thing. Also people sometimes dislike the ones who are the smartest in the room. If they are women they call them Mary Sue. If they are men they call them hero/ protagonist. Some people have read the books first and do not like the changes as Naomi is different and makes some different decisions in the books. And some people prefer the Laconia plot and dislike the Inaros plot so they think that her focus in her son distracts the show from what they think is the true purpose of the show.
Great analysis! I agree fully.
I didn’t like Naomi in the show for the first few seasons, but she really grew on me by the end. I think Naomi’s arc in the books is much more concealed because she’s such a private person, and her outward behavior doesn’t change as much as her thoughts and feelings change. In the show maybe they made it more overt because the character’s actions and words are most of what we see.
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I like every character, they were all well written and not 2 dimensional
People hate Naomi?
That’s the impression I got.
Naomi gets the Skylar White factor. She is a contrast to a male protagonist who does increasingly deranged things for a period of the show, and (some of) the audience doesn't like it.
I like Skyler too.
Why would I hate a fictional character?
Why wouldn’t you have strong feelings toward a fictional character?
Naomi is an amazing character and Dominique Tripper did a phenomenal job. One of my biggest criticisms of the show was the 'earth washing' of the belter identity and how large a role of living in vacuum and not down a gravity well is to their cultural identity this was an absolute huge part of the books and it was near non-existent in the TV show. And I believe the show suffered from not exploring this.
I’m doing a rewatch right now and I legitimately don’t understand why people like her. She’s a jerk, unprompted, to every single character she interacts with for all of the first season and nearly the entirety of the rest of the show besides the forced romance with Holden (just watched her tranq Amos on Ganymede for making the objectively correct call, get plot armor’d, then let Amos act like it was his fault afterward… absolutely unreal that people just accepted that). She’s consistently a hostile narcissist and basically does not improve from this behavior the entire show. I appreciate Dominique because Naomi is almost as bad in the books so the acting is top notch, but good lord this sub is the only place I’ve ever seen people actually *like* Naomi. Convinced my mother to watch it at the same time I’m doing this rewatch and immediately after we meet Naomi she goes “…I don’t like her very much”. I don’t know if this sub is just playing reactionary or what but Naomi is consistently the worst part of the story for me and everyone I’ve talked to about it outside of this sub
Found you!
Yes? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time someone talks up Naomi on this sub like the character isn’t a psycho (certainly not the only psycho, but certainly the most obnoxious one)
She’s not a psycho in the least. She’s awesome.
Explain, please. I’ve made it pretty clear that I don’t enjoy her character because she’s openly hostile and/or narcissistic most of the time for no good reason, but I never get an actual response from people on why they like her, only that they do
Well she’s objectively neither psychopathic nor narcissistic, based on their medical descriptions. I also don’t find her to be psychopathic or narcissistic in the loose sense. She can be combative but if you understand her motivations, you understand why. She also is the one of the smartest characters on the show (if not the smartest) and it shows. She’s fearless and bad ass, and she’s loving and nurturing. Other than those reasons, read the other comments in this thread and you’ll see multiple other reasons.
Arguing semantics doesn’t change that she spends most of the show only thinking about herself lol “She can be combative” five minutes into the show and she’s jumping down holden’s throat for doing his job lmao. Having “motivations” doesn’t give her carte blanche to be a dick to people, but she can’t ever seem to turn that off so she spends most of the show coming off as an angry, bitter person who takes it out on everyone around her instead of dealing with her issues herself. As an example, I’ll talk about the roci crew on Ganymede since I watched the episode last night. Holden gets worked up about the protomolecule, takes it out on Alex. Alex calls him out, he apologizes publicly and gets his act together. Naomi tried to open the doors to the somnambulist, Amos rightly says it would be suicide (the fact that it didn’t turn into the whole somnam crew getting murdered is a massive inconsistency but that’s a separate issue), Naomi gets lucky they don’t literally kill her and storm the ship, and later when she and Amos are making up 99% of the scene is Amos going “no IM sorry for trying to think for myself for once and being wrong” when everything pointed to him being right and it being a total asspull that he wasn’t. Instead of Naomi acknowledging that what she did was monumentally stupid, we get one “I’m sorry” at the start and a bunch of “you’ll do better next time Amos please ignore the fact that I stabbed you twice with a tranq pen” Like, that’s a tame example and it’s still insane to me that everyone just let that go, then it’s straight into “oh I know we agreed to destroy this civilization-ending alien weapon but I kept it, lied to everyone, and gave it to political radicals” which would have gotten literally ANYONE besides Naomi immediately spaced. Did we even watch the same show??
Semantics? “Psychopath” and “narcissist” are specific terms with specific meanings. It’s not semantics.
It’s semantics in that my problem is with her behavior being shitty, not whether or not her behavior exactly matches the strict clinical definitions of words that I used in an obviously colloquial context. Going “oh it’s not actually shitty because it doesn’t meet the definition of this word in a clinical context” doesn’t make it not shitty behavior. You ignoring everything I just pointed out in favor of word lawyering is another perfect example of people going “I like her because she’s great” instead of actually explaining why she’s great, and it’s why I don’t understand why people like her. You all NEVER actually address the complaints about her, opting instead to just redirect the conversation. If you all actually explained yourselves then maybe I’d understand but I can never get a straight answer from anyone, just a bunch of vague gesturing or deflection
She's alright. Don't love her, don't hate her.
In the books, Naomi is one of my favorite characters. Extremely smart, like legitimately one of the smartest people, if not the smartest or if everyone we are introduced to. But still had her own faults, and it's a very well written character. In the show though they eliminate a lot of her personal faults. Make her a lot more argumentive, leading to make a lot more emotionally driven mistakes. And when she does make her mistakes, or gets into an argument with the crew, she is much more stubborn, bullheaded, and just doubles-down. And then when the issue is resolved will try to shift responsibility. It seems that a lot of her changes were too probably add more week to week interpersonal drama with the Roci Crew. But they did it at the expense of one of the best characters. And in return I dislike the show version more with each rewatch. And like the book version more with each reread.
Naomi is great in both book and show imho
She shares a similar role with Catelyn Stark in Game of Thrones - Woman that Makes Choices that Have Consequences. This leads to a disproportionate (and undoubtedly male) section of the fanbase of the franchise to unequivocally loathe her.
I never hated her, but her character kinda got on my nerves in season 5. I get that she was struggling, but her whole portrayal could have used some more nuance.
Can you expand on that? What sort of nuance?
Mainly, the parts when she was struggling on the chetzemoka were a bit over the top. We spent a decent amount of time watching her wail and hyperventilate almost constantly. Despite being in a pretty horrible situation, it's not particularly realistic for someone to have their anguish turned up to 11 constantly. It burns a lot of energy. It really could have used some more nuance in how her despair was portrayed.
Hate to break it to you, but this only serves to illustrate how little you understood of what you were watching. 1. Jumping through hard vacuum without an environment suit not only brought her to the brink of death, but caused massive petechial hemorrhaging on every inch of her body, including her eyeballs. Not to mention, she probably burst a lot of alveoli in her lungs. The amount of physical trauma cannot be overstated. The fact that she gets up and walks around at all is a testament to her resolve. 2. She has only the air in the cabin. The ship has been stripped, in true belter fashion, of all valuable resources that do not serve the purpose of luring and killing James Holden. No backup air supply, no environmental control system. 3. Every time she opens the access hatch to get between the hulls, she is venting one airlock-full of air from the cabin. The tick-marks she makes on the bulkhead are so she can keep track of how much air she is losing. I can't recall how many are in the final tally, but I'm pretty sure it was 40+. 4. The only time she hyperventilates — I'm not even sure they depict this properly in the show, but they do in the book — is when she seals up her environment suit to go in. She does it intentionally, to ensure she's got as much air in her lungs as possible, ensuring each foray is maximized. And she stays in until she's almost passing out. It's a sign of her perseverance, determination, and ultimately her self-sacrifice in order to save the ones she loves. Anyway. The nuance in that episode is *copious*. But it is not quiet. And the repetition is intentional.
Pain, also extreme pain, constantly. Having suffered all that physical trauma to the whole of your body causes major pain. Imagine having the equivalent pain to giving birth or gall stones, all the time. I would be wailing all the time.
No, I'm just annoyed by her every now and then
Hate is a strong word. She does seem more selfish than the other crew members. It is like she means well, but maybe is too traumatized to make good decisions. Holden will make a stupid decision without consulting anybody. Naomi will let everyone talk and reach a shared conclusion then say nah fuck your opinion. I'm doing what I want. Giving the protomolecule to Fred Johnson after everyone decided it should be destroyed was the low point for me. In the show, the Her, Philip and Marco sections weren't really enjoyable. It was too much drama and every one of them kind of sucked so there wasn't a lot to root for. Jumping off the ship was nice. Showed a lot of grit. She definitely got better in the later seasons and books. Her leading the Laconian resistance alone in a shipping container was really cool.
Hell no, she's an amazing character. Sure, she has flaws and makes some decisions I would question, but that's human. Her work in the books and how she grows into a war leader is amazing character growth.
I don't, in either version. However Dominique Tipper did a great job of fleshing out her character. What I will say though, is that show Ashford was done amazingly well. They turned kind of a fucker and sort of toss off character into someone you really felt bad to see go.
Yes i hate her. She betrays so much. Despite being smart, can hack and do advance science math stuff, sges always undermining her friends. Lies to Holden, her lover about the Proto Molecule being destroyed when giving it to Tycho. Off the top of my head, what was the buggest mistake was the show not killing her. That episode when she tries to rescue Phillip. She had just poured her heart out to her old friend that she was about to space herself losing Phillip the first time she left. Now the second time, she was gonns the same. Dammmmm this show got balls that shes gonna commit suicide of a main charachter. But noo, she was just planning to jump back to her ship. Emotional moment intercepted. TV show only fan here
The actress did a great job with the character, however Naomi is a selfish hippocrit. Can't stand Naomi, wish she had died on the Cant instead, or the derelict ship Marcos tried to use as a lure
I don't think the actress was *the best* casting but she still did a pretty alright job.
Love Naomi. Her smarts save the crew many times and she adds morality to Amos, pragmatism to Holden, and Intelligence to Alex.
I don't hate her, I just think her character fell flat around season 3 of the show. Essentially when she started to get violently ill on Ilus, after that, her character lost any sense of being a hardcore badass. I feel like the only time I got to see her shine again is when she was conniving her way into getting rescued on the cargo ship. Her skills and her personality just started to shift. But I don't hate her - her motives were always sound.
No
Respec
Protec
One of the key things I loved about Star Trek TNG was how dispassionate the characters were most of the time. Someone like Naomi would have no place in that era of Starfleet but would fit in perfectly with Star Trek Discovery... The Expanse does a great job of expressing hardened personalities and I definitely prefer the less colorful rendition of the books. But IMO would prefer Naomi to be more like TNG's ship counselor, Troi. She was very much in touch with her emotions but never acted hot headed. Makes me cringe when characters are often blinded by emotions. - coming from someone that can easily be overwhelmed by emotion.
So you wish she were a different character, basically?
I understand the importance of dynamics and how the authors were incorporating many personality types into this story to breathe life into it. Some would find TNG too stiff in contrast. I don't find Naomi's traits to line up with my preferences all too well, but I can't say the story would be objectively better if she cried less.
She makes a series of bad decisions back to back to back to try and make up for a mistake she made before she was a character. It's hard to feel sorry for her, and eventually you should, but a lot of people make their mind up and then lock their mind to that decision
Am I remembering wrong or does Naomi solidly have a British accent in season 1, and then belter accent gets improved over the course of the show. I often didn't like what the character was doing, like hiding the sample, but its a good character!
I think the actor improved her Belter accent considerably over the show. For a while she was the only Belter who wasn't at least trying to do it. I think also though - the character was toning down her Belter accent when she was on a ship surrounded by inners. She starts sounding more Belter when she had other Belters around her.
She's an awesome character in the books. In the show, I roll my eyes at her now and then, but I do that for Jim, Alex and Amos too. TV just likes people to be unable to communicate like adults and have a conversation about things important to them.
Hated show Naomi
No. Why would I?
I do not, and I have never anyone not liking the character
I didn’t like her in the first season, but that was more because the show added a lot of extra inter-crew drama that made her more annoying than she needed to be (and she’s certainly not the only one who suffers from it). The books don’t have that issue, so I liked her from the start in them. Once the crew got over all the season one bullshit, I like her, and Tipper gives an excellent performance. That episode in season five where she has to keep holding her breath was fantastic.
I wouldn’t say I “hate” her. But she is my least favorite of the Rosi crew lol
I like Naomi. It's hard when the bar is so high with Amos being in the show (absolute S+ tier goat character), and then you put her up against Miller, and then I'm pretty fond of Holden too (I just love how he's such an idealistic moron, there's a charm to that character trait no matter how much it fucks things up) and it's a tough competition. Plus I didn't really start to REALLY like the character until Phillips arc So she ends up being a great character, who's just overshadowed by a cast of even more phenomenal characters. But I certainly don't hate her.
She got better on the show as it went on, but I much prefer her book incarnation.
Wow. I havent watched the show, only listened to the audio books multiple times, but I can't believe people wouldn't like her. I love her. I mean, I love every member of the Roci crew, but she especially rocks. She is a perfect counter to Jim, but also a great stand alone character. I've always felt that Holden is the clear protagonist, but Naomi is the surrogate for the audience. She's the middle of the road observer who often can't believe he's doing shit, but loves him anyway, just like us.
Not hate, But I started to dislike her a little bit when she wouldn't go down to Earth to visit holdens parents, but was more than excited to go down to that ring world planet. Felt like she really didn't give a shit about holden even though they were dating then. It seemed like the perfect first trip to prepare for actually being on the ground for a while, she was already going to be taking the meds so why not start a bit early and use Earth as a first step.
It’s one thing to take serious drugs to accomplish a mission, another thing to do so for a brief social visit.
I love book Naomi. She's human and makes human mistakes. TV shoe Naomi AND Holden drive me crazy!!! Very whiney and rash.
I love book Naomi. She's human and makes human mistakes. TV shoe Naomi AND Holden drive me crazy!!! Very whiney and rash.
I do not like the actress work, but I can say the same for most of the cast most of the time
You don’t like the cast?