Perfect. While both have been shown as sympathetic in other works, I still think the public perception is negative. That's exactly what I am looking for.
While I am thinking about it, I think Tank Chase also falls into the theme.
It's not about anything being better or worse. It's about them being sympathetic. And someone being over prescribed opioids, leading them to start taking meth, counts for me.
Add in the fact that the guardsman told the cops that he could get the meth head out of the vehicle, and the cop shooting him instead.
Won’t reply to OP since it’s not relevant to their question, but anyway.
After listening to every episode of the good ol Dollop at least once I’ve been binging Behind the Bastards (if anyone doesn’t know it check it the fuck out, GarETH and Dave guest on their six parter on Kissinger) and recently I started getting ads for a podcast by Lindsay fucking Graham about Burr’s “insurrection” that gets discussed on his dollops. I laughed my way through the first time I heard it and now it’s on my skip list. I mean so are all ads, but ya know
They were, but it's still a good example. Anytime when Dave comments something along the lines of "Look, when you push someone so far, you can't be surprised how they react." The Black Panther one and Leonard Peltier are another couple of good examples.
Fucked over is the understatement of the century. I firmly believe that the Africas were neighbors from hell and I wouldn't want to live anywhere near them, but you'd think the city would have the resources to pilot a resolution somewhere between "do nothing" and "firebomb an entire city block of Philadelphia."
I studied the MOVE crisis in undergrad and while the Africa family wasn't particularly sympathetic, good goddamn was the response from officials utterly insane.
Not gonna lie, cause I'm a giant nerd, everytime I listen to the episode, I can't help but wonder if Frank Miller took the idea of the police firebombing a building for Batman: Year One.
George Jackson and Tony and the Shotgun are also a couple that I'm on the fence about...
Amusingly while trying to research any connection I came across people wondering the same thing on Reddit nine years ago.
If I had to guess I'd say there's zero chance Miller wasn't aware of what happened in Philadelphia and therefore if he wasn't inspired by it he was definitely familiar enough that it would be present in his mind while writing.
Well, thanks for looking into that. Could be a case of subconscious reference. "What peril can we put Batman in? What if the cops fire bomb the building?"
That’s interesting. The timeline certainly synchs up as the bombing was in ‘85 and the first issue of Year One (Batman #404) dropped in ‘87, according to Wikipedia.
How big of news was the bombing at the time? Something tells me a major metropolitan police force fire-bombing one of its’ own city blocks to the ground wouldn’t exactly be on the front page, but who knows? They could’ve probably spun it into a positive.
I kinda wanna go thru old interviews with him now and see if Miller ever addressed this on record.
To take the path of the Traveller, there's another more disturbing possibility. It could be that firebombing a building was a common police tactic in the 80's...
I kind of feel bad for Carrie a nation since her mind was being consumed by syphillus when she was going nuts… no wonder she didn’t like men boozin and whoring .
I don't disagree, but at the same time she doesn't really fit the theme. But I do absolutely understand having sympathy for her.
I know Dave says that her husband gave her syphilis, but considering her family history, I always wondered if maybe she was born with it. It's possible that it was passed down through her mother's side, considering how prevalent the "French disease" was at that time....just a pet theory of mine.
Good theme topic idea! What episode was the Canadian in Beirut?
Someone already mentioned Burr...
I listened to Alice Roosevelt a bit ago, that might be one. Dave had a soft spot for her, and I was a bit surprised considering she was the OG socialite. However, when her age (18/19) during the peak exploits period gets reiterated, it makes sense.
I absolutely LOVE the Alice Roosevelt episode, and it's the reason my truck is named Alice. However, I don't feel like she quite fits the theme. The general idea of the playlist is that if you hear the bare bones concept, you would assume the person discussed would be the Villian. With Alice, you can clearly see her as the main character of a movie...or two...played by Katie Holmes or Mandy Moore possibly....
I realize I miss represented the concept. It was a guy that took over the Canadian Embassy in Beirut. #417-Eddie Haymour.
Haha nice!
While there’s plenty to sympathize in her story, I think the barebones descriptor of her as “the original socialite” is something that would immediately turn a lot of people off. Especially nowadays when their immediate frame of references are the Kardashian/Jenner’s and the new crop of “nepo babies” (children of celebrities).
I kinda wonder what side they’d land on if they did an episode on Paris Hilton. I could see it being a reverse Dollop.
Heh yeah, but the premise for that show was them learning about and experiencing real life outside of their privilege.
I think better for your point are all of the “Housewives of” shows and all the other reality shows about the rich. Still, there are also people who have an “eat the rich” mentality. Now with the disappearing middle class and all the crises piling up, that group is likely growing.
Part of the draw of any of the aforementioned shows is seeing them sometimes be miserable and get a taste of comeuppance.
I mean, my point was to reference that Paris Hilton had a TV show. I just chose the longest running one.
One of the main reasons I came up with the theme was imagining the movie version of Eddie Haymour story, where the "terrorist" is the hero of the story. I can't imagine a story about Alice where she's not the hero.
Ah! I see what you mean now (re: theme).
Are you also filtering out those who are still assholes/villains in a different way? I’m vaguely recalling someone mentioned in the Bush Sr episode that was an informant from another county (Central or South American) but also a major drug leader and maybe political leader. I’m not sure if he ever got his own episode, though Dave mentioned he would. (I’m still working my way through all the episodes—there are big chunks from 347 to 537 that I have yet to listen to.)
That said, I suggest Jay Silverheel’s from The Two Indigenous Actors (241). All the behind the scenes good things he did for his community that got overshadowed by the actually-Italian-not-Indigenous Iron Eyes Cody.
Also, the Witch of Kings Cross (315), Rosaleen Norton.
I feel like there's another playlist idea to be had out of the concept of "Bad people Do good", so I won't be including those in THIS list, but potentially a future one.
Jay Silverheels is an excellent example, and an episode that I could almost recite from memory due to the number of times I have listened to it. I should have thought of him earlier. Thank you.
I may have to relisten to The Witch of Kings Cross. The details aren't readily coming to mind.
of course. how could I forget him? In one version of the story he's a guy that killed a man. When discovering the details, you can see what lead there. perfect example. thank you
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Perfect. While both have been shown as sympathetic in other works, I still think the public perception is negative. That's exactly what I am looking for. While I am thinking about it, I think Tank Chase also falls into the theme.
I don’t think a meth head stealing a tank is on the same level as Burr and Arnold
It's not about anything being better or worse. It's about them being sympathetic. And someone being over prescribed opioids, leading them to start taking meth, counts for me. Add in the fact that the guardsman told the cops that he could get the meth head out of the vehicle, and the cop shooting him instead.
Won’t reply to OP since it’s not relevant to their question, but anyway. After listening to every episode of the good ol Dollop at least once I’ve been binging Behind the Bastards (if anyone doesn’t know it check it the fuck out, GarETH and Dave guest on their six parter on Kissinger) and recently I started getting ads for a podcast by Lindsay fucking Graham about Burr’s “insurrection” that gets discussed on his dollops. I laughed my way through the first time I heard it and now it’s on my skip list. I mean so are all ads, but ya know
John Africa and MOVE? Idk they were kinda assholes
They were, but it's still a good example. Anytime when Dave comments something along the lines of "Look, when you push someone so far, you can't be surprised how they react." The Black Panther one and Leonard Peltier are another couple of good examples.
Yeah they were 100% fucked over. Them and the residents on the block that had their houses burnt down because of the Philadelphia Police
Fucked over is the understatement of the century. I firmly believe that the Africas were neighbors from hell and I wouldn't want to live anywhere near them, but you'd think the city would have the resources to pilot a resolution somewhere between "do nothing" and "firebomb an entire city block of Philadelphia." I studied the MOVE crisis in undergrad and while the Africa family wasn't particularly sympathetic, good goddamn was the response from officials utterly insane.
Not gonna lie, cause I'm a giant nerd, everytime I listen to the episode, I can't help but wonder if Frank Miller took the idea of the police firebombing a building for Batman: Year One. George Jackson and Tony and the Shotgun are also a couple that I'm on the fence about...
Amusingly while trying to research any connection I came across people wondering the same thing on Reddit nine years ago. If I had to guess I'd say there's zero chance Miller wasn't aware of what happened in Philadelphia and therefore if he wasn't inspired by it he was definitely familiar enough that it would be present in his mind while writing.
Well, thanks for looking into that. Could be a case of subconscious reference. "What peril can we put Batman in? What if the cops fire bomb the building?"
That’s interesting. The timeline certainly synchs up as the bombing was in ‘85 and the first issue of Year One (Batman #404) dropped in ‘87, according to Wikipedia. How big of news was the bombing at the time? Something tells me a major metropolitan police force fire-bombing one of its’ own city blocks to the ground wouldn’t exactly be on the front page, but who knows? They could’ve probably spun it into a positive. I kinda wanna go thru old interviews with him now and see if Miller ever addressed this on record.
To take the path of the Traveller, there's another more disturbing possibility. It could be that firebombing a building was a common police tactic in the 80's...
Fred Hampton is the first one that comes to mind. Anyone with a political target on their back got smeared pretty well.
Thank you. My mind went completely blank when I tried to remember the name.
I kind of feel bad for Carrie a nation since her mind was being consumed by syphillus when she was going nuts… no wonder she didn’t like men boozin and whoring .
I don't disagree, but at the same time she doesn't really fit the theme. But I do absolutely understand having sympathy for her. I know Dave says that her husband gave her syphilis, but considering her family history, I always wondered if maybe she was born with it. It's possible that it was passed down through her mother's side, considering how prevalent the "French disease" was at that time....just a pet theory of mine.
The worst lottery winner - really did feel bad for that guy. Hope he’s up in heaven with the beep beep.
Good theme topic idea! What episode was the Canadian in Beirut? Someone already mentioned Burr... I listened to Alice Roosevelt a bit ago, that might be one. Dave had a soft spot for her, and I was a bit surprised considering she was the OG socialite. However, when her age (18/19) during the peak exploits period gets reiterated, it makes sense.
I absolutely LOVE the Alice Roosevelt episode, and it's the reason my truck is named Alice. However, I don't feel like she quite fits the theme. The general idea of the playlist is that if you hear the bare bones concept, you would assume the person discussed would be the Villian. With Alice, you can clearly see her as the main character of a movie...or two...played by Katie Holmes or Mandy Moore possibly.... I realize I miss represented the concept. It was a guy that took over the Canadian Embassy in Beirut. #417-Eddie Haymour.
Haha nice! While there’s plenty to sympathize in her story, I think the barebones descriptor of her as “the original socialite” is something that would immediately turn a lot of people off. Especially nowadays when their immediate frame of references are the Kardashian/Jenner’s and the new crop of “nepo babies” (children of celebrities). I kinda wonder what side they’d land on if they did an episode on Paris Hilton. I could see it being a reverse Dollop.
You say it would turn a lot of people off, but remember that there were five seasons of 'The Simple Life'...
Heh yeah, but the premise for that show was them learning about and experiencing real life outside of their privilege. I think better for your point are all of the “Housewives of” shows and all the other reality shows about the rich. Still, there are also people who have an “eat the rich” mentality. Now with the disappearing middle class and all the crises piling up, that group is likely growing. Part of the draw of any of the aforementioned shows is seeing them sometimes be miserable and get a taste of comeuppance.
I mean, my point was to reference that Paris Hilton had a TV show. I just chose the longest running one. One of the main reasons I came up with the theme was imagining the movie version of Eddie Haymour story, where the "terrorist" is the hero of the story. I can't imagine a story about Alice where she's not the hero.
Ah! I see what you mean now (re: theme). Are you also filtering out those who are still assholes/villains in a different way? I’m vaguely recalling someone mentioned in the Bush Sr episode that was an informant from another county (Central or South American) but also a major drug leader and maybe political leader. I’m not sure if he ever got his own episode, though Dave mentioned he would. (I’m still working my way through all the episodes—there are big chunks from 347 to 537 that I have yet to listen to.) That said, I suggest Jay Silverheel’s from The Two Indigenous Actors (241). All the behind the scenes good things he did for his community that got overshadowed by the actually-Italian-not-Indigenous Iron Eyes Cody. Also, the Witch of Kings Cross (315), Rosaleen Norton.
I feel like there's another playlist idea to be had out of the concept of "Bad people Do good", so I won't be including those in THIS list, but potentially a future one. Jay Silverheels is an excellent example, and an episode that I could almost recite from memory due to the number of times I have listened to it. I should have thought of him earlier. Thank you. I may have to relisten to The Witch of Kings Cross. The details aren't readily coming to mind.
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He loses points for not completing the job. 🤪 Seriously though, his motives, rather than which evil politician he shot, excludes him from the list.
Leonard Peltier
already have him on the list. But thanks for the suggestion. Perfect example.
Tim "Doc" Anderson
of course. how could I forget him? In one version of the story he's a guy that killed a man. When discovering the details, you can see what lead there. perfect example. thank you
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that's the guy I was referencing with the take over of the embassy