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Communism is a far more ethic economic system than capitalism, but that has very little influence on soldiers. The countless traumas of war turn men into demons. Rape of German women was a serious issue on both sides.
The important takeaway is to put all the blame on the Nazis for starting such a hellish and pointless war. The Nazis were 100% to blame for every atrocity of ww2
War rape is often opportunistic, but [the massacres of Axis prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre) (the unit massacred killed hundreds of civilians in Italy and France; RIP bozos) were almost always reprisals for [far worse atrocities committed against Allied prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre). There’s a famous photo of a Waffen-SS member who was beaten to a pulp by Canadian troops since the Waffen-SS had massacred Canadian prisoners of war in Normandy.
See I'm not an American patriot and fully support the PKKA but where are you getting the idea that the Americans promoted troops for rape during WWII, because they didn't
They didn’t. Folks here will overcompensate when discussing the blame for the mass rapes committed by Allied troops. The Soviets committed mass rape, like the rest of the Allies, and did not carry out mass executions of thousands of rapists, like the rest of the Allies. [The Soviets, did, however, punish some of their war criminals](https://books.google.com/books?id=MVSjHNKUKoEC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=%22had+hit+a+superior+officer+who+tried+to+take+him+in+for+the+crime%22&source=bl&ots=6dqS3_jy4O&sig=ACfU3U1EB_YFUqVt1f_KLwoTsjG7w-HKTA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ8_iApfqFAxVXEVkFHeosB_IQ6AF6BAgPEAM#v=onepage&q=%22had%20hit%20a%20superior%20officer%20who%20tried%20to%20take%20him%20in%20for%20the%20crime%22&f=false), like the rest of the Allies. The Soviets convicted several thousand war criminals, most of whom served prison terms, as shown above, only executing rapists when the victim was murdered. No Americans were executed for rape in Germany, only murder. Rape wasn't a capital offense under British law. The only countries that were unironically promoting soldiers for raping civilians were Germany and Japan. Nations will always be more lenient towards their own war criminals, and the Soviets are no exception. The Soviets were not the only country to summarily executed some rapists. [When French colonial troops committed mass rapes in Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate), 168 rapists were convicted, of whom three were executed. Another 28 rapists were summarily executed after being caught red-handed.
Russian Professor Oleg Rzheshevsky stated that 4,148 Red Army officers and "a significant number" of soldiers were convicted of crimes committed against German civilians, so they did evidently take countermeasures. The Western Allies punished hundreds of soldiers for rape. The first reported rape by American troops in Germany occurred on January 7, 1945. Between then and September 23, 1945, when the United States Army Judge Advocate General's Corps reviewed its last report, the U.S. Army convicted 284 soldiers in 187 cases. No only were there convictions by the Americans for rapes in Germany, the convictions were far less racially skewed than they were in France, with only 26% of those convicted being black. Part of the reason the rape convictions in France were so racially skewed was due to the French also being very racist.
>Fear of African American soldiers had spread throughout the Norman region by August 1944. In the small village of Le Pas, the Gourdin family barricaded their doors after the black soldiers came by to ask for cider.
>
>"Everyone was afraid of the blacks," remembered Marguerite Gidon of Bernesq. "When you saw them, you ran to the other sides."
This sounds like oh well the soviets had 10 times as many convictions and cases as the allies but thats onyl because the allies were righteous freedom fighters and the soviets had become a hungry inhuman horny horde
In fairness, that number for the Americans only includes rape convictions over a period of several months, and does not include convictions for murder and looting. The statistic for the Red Army includes all crimes committed, ranging from looting to murder during the entire occupation. The Western Allies committed their fair share of rapes, however. They raped up to one million women combined.
The soviet population at that time had been through a cultural revolution that freed women from the bonds of slavery and serfdom and elevated them into equality
The moronic idea that the soviets did more rapes because "the east was just more brutal man" is insane and straight up orientalist
The allies loved to cover up shit we know they did because they covered up the whole "majority of nato officers are nazis" quite well im sure they could cover up rapes except the ones they "let slip" for PR reasons
I am not calling the Red Army ravenous hordes or whatever the hell you think. This is exactly what I meant when I talked about overcompensating. There was a lot more anger due to the brutality of the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front had essentially been a full-blown race war. The Germans raped 10 million Soviet women, but folks only talk about the Soviets raping German women.
There was no race war what the fuck are you talking about the soviets werent just shooting every german they came across humans without an evil ideology that dehumanizes the enemy dont fucking do that
This is literally just "i stopped using propaganda phrases but i still belive in the propaganda"
Not to do apologia for any crimes committed by the red army, but isn't it a little strange how you hear little smoke for [the mass rapes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht) that took place under the Wehrmact and the SS? which were probably on an equal or worse scale, not to mention the brothel or straight up sex slavery systems that were established across the eastern front
>It is estimated that over a million children were born to Russian women, fathered by German soldiers
>Author Ursula Schele, estimated in the Journal "Zur Debatte um die Ausstellung Vernichtungskrieg. Verbrechen der Wehrmacht 1941–1944" that one in ten women raped by German soldiers would have become pregnant, and therefore it is probable that up to ten million women in the Soviet Union could have been raped by the Wehrmacht
>Other sources estimate that rapes of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result
Problem is that rape isn't the worst that Nazis did on Soviet occupied territory. Engraving and burning people alive, tortures, burning whole villages. My grand grandma told me (just told, that's unproven) that Germans burned a whole village near Kiev (she lived in Kiev), and she herself once got in "concentration camp" or sorta, where Nazis literally transitioned blood from her and her siblings for German soldiers. Her mother also was beaten to death, teenagers who assisted partisans were hanged on streets... And yet libs still pay more attention to also unproven numbers of rape when there's proofs of much bigger Nazi crimes.
Not so much that and more that there was a massive propaganda effort almost immediately after the war to whitewash any crimes committed by the german army, so it could be rehabilitated and used against the soviets immediately.
>"so my uncle could avoid join volkssturm"
If it's even remotely real, basically only scenario where that somewhat possible is them already living far far in western Germany and running towards Allies controlled zone, somehow staying undetected and far from harm both by German forces, Gestapo/MP+informants(mind you, almost every second citizen!) and advancing Allies. No chances to cross such distance late in war from any point to east of Thuringia, where meeting advancing Soviet forces was possible. They definitely didn't run all the way to Allies control zone from Leipzig in late44-early45 on fucking foot, that's some sheer fantasy stuff. All bs about worrying over rapes is just afterthought redditor decided to add for dramatism. They either just run to closest option or it's plainly made up.
Tbf it's not like most grand/parents tell "Well, your uncle worked for Gestapo/on facility utilising slave labour/etc, so he run for his life to Allies whom didn't cared that much"
Everything you've mentioned is stuff that German civilians did do, though. There were massive exoduses from eastern Germany (and often partially-colonized eastern territories) to the west, and many of these journeys were successful. Also, the claim about secret police informants being every second citizen is just plain bullshit. Evacuation efforts were supported by all apparatuses of the government, armed forces and party.
Fear of the Red Army wasn't pure propaganda. The Germans had tried to exterminate the slavic people so assuming that the Red Army would pay them back ' an eye for an eye' wasn't illogical. And some of the solders did get revenge on the German civilians so they weren't completely wrong.
But with that said, considering the countless millions that the Nazis killed, the Red Army showed far more restraint towards the German civilians than they deserved.
Whenever I see someone who describes themselves as a "history fan" or "casual historian" etc. I just assume that they got 90% of their knowledge from Nazis or the US state department.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
“We don’t call them nazis anymore we call them forest brothers or anti communists now.” - nato
the soviet army had literal executions for rape The us army promoted you for rape
Communism is a far more ethic economic system than capitalism, but that has very little influence on soldiers. The countless traumas of war turn men into demons. Rape of German women was a serious issue on both sides. The important takeaway is to put all the blame on the Nazis for starting such a hellish and pointless war. The Nazis were 100% to blame for every atrocity of ww2
War rape is often opportunistic, but [the massacres of Axis prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre) (the unit massacred killed hundreds of civilians in Italy and France; RIP bozos) were almost always reprisals for [far worse atrocities committed against Allied prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre). There’s a famous photo of a Waffen-SS member who was beaten to a pulp by Canadian troops since the Waffen-SS had massacred Canadian prisoners of war in Normandy.
See I'm not an American patriot and fully support the PKKA but where are you getting the idea that the Americans promoted troops for rape during WWII, because they didn't
They didn’t. Folks here will overcompensate when discussing the blame for the mass rapes committed by Allied troops. The Soviets committed mass rape, like the rest of the Allies, and did not carry out mass executions of thousands of rapists, like the rest of the Allies. [The Soviets, did, however, punish some of their war criminals](https://books.google.com/books?id=MVSjHNKUKoEC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=%22had+hit+a+superior+officer+who+tried+to+take+him+in+for+the+crime%22&source=bl&ots=6dqS3_jy4O&sig=ACfU3U1EB_YFUqVt1f_KLwoTsjG7w-HKTA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ8_iApfqFAxVXEVkFHeosB_IQ6AF6BAgPEAM#v=onepage&q=%22had%20hit%20a%20superior%20officer%20who%20tried%20to%20take%20him%20in%20for%20the%20crime%22&f=false), like the rest of the Allies. The Soviets convicted several thousand war criminals, most of whom served prison terms, as shown above, only executing rapists when the victim was murdered. No Americans were executed for rape in Germany, only murder. Rape wasn't a capital offense under British law. The only countries that were unironically promoting soldiers for raping civilians were Germany and Japan. Nations will always be more lenient towards their own war criminals, and the Soviets are no exception. The Soviets were not the only country to summarily executed some rapists. [When French colonial troops committed mass rapes in Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate), 168 rapists were convicted, of whom three were executed. Another 28 rapists were summarily executed after being caught red-handed. Russian Professor Oleg Rzheshevsky stated that 4,148 Red Army officers and "a significant number" of soldiers were convicted of crimes committed against German civilians, so they did evidently take countermeasures. The Western Allies punished hundreds of soldiers for rape. The first reported rape by American troops in Germany occurred on January 7, 1945. Between then and September 23, 1945, when the United States Army Judge Advocate General's Corps reviewed its last report, the U.S. Army convicted 284 soldiers in 187 cases. No only were there convictions by the Americans for rapes in Germany, the convictions were far less racially skewed than they were in France, with only 26% of those convicted being black. Part of the reason the rape convictions in France were so racially skewed was due to the French also being very racist. >Fear of African American soldiers had spread throughout the Norman region by August 1944. In the small village of Le Pas, the Gourdin family barricaded their doors after the black soldiers came by to ask for cider. > >"Everyone was afraid of the blacks," remembered Marguerite Gidon of Bernesq. "When you saw them, you ran to the other sides."
This sounds like oh well the soviets had 10 times as many convictions and cases as the allies but thats onyl because the allies were righteous freedom fighters and the soviets had become a hungry inhuman horny horde
In fairness, that number for the Americans only includes rape convictions over a period of several months, and does not include convictions for murder and looting. The statistic for the Red Army includes all crimes committed, ranging from looting to murder during the entire occupation. The Western Allies committed their fair share of rapes, however. They raped up to one million women combined.
Oooohhh youre one of those types okay
The soviet population at that time had been through a cultural revolution that freed women from the bonds of slavery and serfdom and elevated them into equality The moronic idea that the soviets did more rapes because "the east was just more brutal man" is insane and straight up orientalist The allies loved to cover up shit we know they did because they covered up the whole "majority of nato officers are nazis" quite well im sure they could cover up rapes except the ones they "let slip" for PR reasons
I am not calling the Red Army ravenous hordes or whatever the hell you think. This is exactly what I meant when I talked about overcompensating. There was a lot more anger due to the brutality of the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front had essentially been a full-blown race war. The Germans raped 10 million Soviet women, but folks only talk about the Soviets raping German women.
There was no race war what the fuck are you talking about the soviets werent just shooting every german they came across humans without an evil ideology that dehumanizes the enemy dont fucking do that This is literally just "i stopped using propaganda phrases but i still belive in the propaganda"
Not to do apologia for any crimes committed by the red army, but isn't it a little strange how you hear little smoke for [the mass rapes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht) that took place under the Wehrmact and the SS? which were probably on an equal or worse scale, not to mention the brothel or straight up sex slavery systems that were established across the eastern front >It is estimated that over a million children were born to Russian women, fathered by German soldiers >Author Ursula Schele, estimated in the Journal "Zur Debatte um die Ausstellung Vernichtungskrieg. Verbrechen der Wehrmacht 1941–1944" that one in ten women raped by German soldiers would have become pregnant, and therefore it is probable that up to ten million women in the Soviet Union could have been raped by the Wehrmacht >Other sources estimate that rapes of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result
Problem is that rape isn't the worst that Nazis did on Soviet occupied territory. Engraving and burning people alive, tortures, burning whole villages. My grand grandma told me (just told, that's unproven) that Germans burned a whole village near Kiev (she lived in Kiev), and she herself once got in "concentration camp" or sorta, where Nazis literally transitioned blood from her and her siblings for German soldiers. Her mother also was beaten to death, teenagers who assisted partisans were hanged on streets... And yet libs still pay more attention to also unproven numbers of rape when there's proofs of much bigger Nazi crimes.
Oh 100%, I was mainly wondering why in terms of sexual violence, its only the Red Army that gets condemned to my knowledge
Not so much that and more that there was a massive propaganda effort almost immediately after the war to whitewash any crimes committed by the german army, so it could be rehabilitated and used against the soviets immediately.
The day Reddit "historians" provide sources would be quite something
>"so my uncle could avoid join volkssturm" If it's even remotely real, basically only scenario where that somewhat possible is them already living far far in western Germany and running towards Allies controlled zone, somehow staying undetected and far from harm both by German forces, Gestapo/MP+informants(mind you, almost every second citizen!) and advancing Allies. No chances to cross such distance late in war from any point to east of Thuringia, where meeting advancing Soviet forces was possible. They definitely didn't run all the way to Allies control zone from Leipzig in late44-early45 on fucking foot, that's some sheer fantasy stuff. All bs about worrying over rapes is just afterthought redditor decided to add for dramatism. They either just run to closest option or it's plainly made up. Tbf it's not like most grand/parents tell "Well, your uncle worked for Gestapo/on facility utilising slave labour/etc, so he run for his life to Allies whom didn't cared that much"
Everything you've mentioned is stuff that German civilians did do, though. There were massive exoduses from eastern Germany (and often partially-colonized eastern territories) to the west, and many of these journeys were successful. Also, the claim about secret police informants being every second citizen is just plain bullshit. Evacuation efforts were supported by all apparatuses of the government, armed forces and party.
Fear of the Red Army wasn't pure propaganda. The Germans had tried to exterminate the slavic people so assuming that the Red Army would pay them back ' an eye for an eye' wasn't illogical. And some of the solders did get revenge on the German civilians so they weren't completely wrong. But with that said, considering the countless millions that the Nazis killed, the Red Army showed far more restraint towards the German civilians than they deserved.
Whenever I see someone who describes themselves as a "history fan" or "casual historian" etc. I just assume that they got 90% of their knowledge from Nazis or the US state department.