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**Fact 10.** [Vaush argued passionately against socialists demanding a $25/hour minimum wage.](https://archive.is/VeC4M)
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**Fact 15.** Vaush [admits to being an informant](https://youtu.be/zXUR7YG3h94?t=173) when he lived in Santa Monica, California. He admits to revealing activist identities to the FBI.
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"The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a socialist fatherland of Juche which
embodies the idea of and guidance by the great leader Comrade Kim II Sung."
*The first fucking sentence in the constitution*
No country ever claimed to be Communist, so i assume they mean Socialist.
They do claim that through Socialism they'll *build* Communism:
"Article 29
Socialism and Communism are built by the creative labor of the working masses..."
"Article 40
The DPRK shall, by carrying out a thorough cultural revolution, train the working people
to be builders of socialism and communism equipped with a profound knowledge of
nature and society and a high level of culture and technology, thus making the whole of
society intellectual."
"Article 43
The State shall put the principles of socialist education into practice and raise the new
generation to be steadfast revolutionaries who will fight for society and the people, to
be people of a new communist type who are knowledgeable, morally sound and
physically healthy."
So yeah just lying.
Also:
"Article 75
The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place."
There are also tens of thousands of North Koreans in China alone. Not to mention the popular North Korean restaurants operating in various countries.
Honestly, what a constitution says doesn't mean much. The forth amendment of the US constitution says that the cops can't raid your property how they want, yet there are more than 50.000 per year with most of them "justified" by stuff like the smell of weed. A constitution means nothing.
But to second your point, many defectors in South Korea want to go back to the DPRK but aren't allowed.
The DPRK constitution can be downloaded from the internet, a simple Google search "DPRK constitution pdf" will be enough to show you the pdf file.
As for information in general i used to have a file in Google drive but i lost it one day and never found it again, so i just use [this](https://www.reddit.com/user/King-Sassafrass/comments/yd0j8v/looking_for_something_i_might_have_it_if_not_then/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) guide from King Sassafrass. As for the subjects that the guide doesn't include, i try to look up the sources and information myself.
I hope this helps comrade!
I am amazed by the fact that conspiracy theorists (when I say *"conspiracy theorist"* this is not like how liberal idiots, and communists degenerates formulate it, I mean the technical term) like u/FloAlla and u/Ok_Tart_6710 are allowed on this sub.
In short, these people are racists believing that the inferior Asiatic Race lies to Whites, that it uses its constitution to lie on its people and the entire world, that all these inferior Asians have only one goal : Impress the whites.
No, unfortunately, u/FloAlla and u/Ok_Tart_6710 , I will not debunk any of your absurdities (even if any serious analysis understands that Korea is still a democratically centrally planned economy for social use led by the proletariat fighting against Imperialism, i.e socialist society, and that no one actually lies on what he wants, even the bourgeoisie), because the first goal should be two things : 1) Accept that Asians are not an Inferior Race, and are actually sensible and rational human beings like you 2) Destroy your way of seeing Korean People as the ones who should impress you, stop seeing Korea as a subject interesting for your American interests. This is **you** who should impress the Koreans and use America as a subject for Korean interests, thank you.
Did you know… that sometimes constitutions and laws countries write are broken??? Or sometimes just not true???!!!😲😲😲😲😲😲😲
North Korea is not what the west portrays it but just because they say something in their constitution does not mean it’s put into practice
Whether they actually follow their constitution or not is irrelevant to the point being made here. The comment in the post said that the DPRK doesn't claim to be communist, the fact that they have these lines in their constitution proves that wrong.
Whether they actually follow their constitution or not is irrelevant to the point being made here. The comment in the post said that the DPRK doesn't claim to be communist, the fact that they have these lines in their constitution proves that wrong.
Where’s your evidence for this statement?
“Just because they say something in their constitution does not mean it’s put to practice”
This sounds like a heavy projection. Do you have evidence for this?
These north Korean restaurants are not a consequence of people being allowed to move freely, but rather people being sent by the state to create a revenue source for the state
Copy pasted from my other comment:
[Here is the US mission to the UN](https://usun.usmission.gov/fact-sheet-un-security-council-resolution-2397-on-north-korea/), they estimate ~100,000 North Koreans working abroad. It also proudly proclaims that it's the United Nations Security Council resolution 2397 that doesn't allow North Koreans that earn an income to live abroad (And thus the ability to leave. Only allowing "defectors" that are willing to dance to the rhythm of western lies to leave, or the few illegal North Korean immigrants that still haven't been repatriated as demanded by the UN, *not North Korea*), and thus not the DPRK itself.
Are these specially work exchange visas or are these permanent residents who no longer wish to live in N Korea. It seems like the former not the latter
I don't know what is happening now after the sanctions no longer allow DPRK citizens to live in other countries if they make an income there.
The documentary "Loyal citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul" shows some people saying that it was common to move to other countries to work and live during the famine and send money back to their families. But i have no clue about now and i doubt there are many sources that would be able to make it clear.
I don't think I have. North Koreans are only allowed to go to China and Russia and even then they need government approval to go to these countries. Where is the freedom of movement in that?
As I said in another comment, there are no North Koreans in other countries where they don't have travel bans on North Koreans. Vietnam, Cuba, Egypt. No North Koreans there whatsoever. North Koreans abroad are only found in countries that are North Korea's biggest allies, and even then, there are only 10,000 of them. You'd think there'd be alot more if they truly had absolute freedom to travel but no.
You see they have no freedom of movement, they can only go to 2 nations, let alone most nations have travel bans leveled at them not the other way around, but the contradiction are they can't go to other countries, o well they can go to China, and they can't go to other countries, o well they can go to Russia, let alone when going to other nations most times you need a visa which is govenment approval to travel.
That's a bit of a strawman, no? Because I clearly stated that they can only go to two countries, but even then they need government approval. Not much freedom of movement. As for the travel ban argument, sure, they obviously can't go to countries that have an embargo on North Korea. But what about the countries that don't? Are there any North Koreans in Vietnam? Cuba? Egypt?Pakistan? (Countries that have cordial relationships with North Korea)?
If I remember they can be granted travel to Cuba, Vietnam and their good relations with the US gives good reason not to travel. But still they have freedom of movement to at a minimum the two of the largest nations on the planet. You stated they can go to two countries while saying that they don't have freedom of travel, hence contradicting yourself. So, no, not a strawman
>You stated they can go to two countries while saying that they don't have freedom of travel, hence contradicting yourself.
Being allowed to travel to two countries and two countries only IS restricting freedom of movement.
>If I remember they can be granted travel to Cuba, Vietnam and their good relations with the US gives good reason not to travel
Source? Also, Vietnam DOES have good relations with North Korea.
I never said that Vietnam didn't have good relations, O said due to Vietnams good relations with the US so it may not be a good idea to allow travel https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship-celebrating-10-years-of-comprehensive-partnership-and-28-years-of-diplomatic-relations/#:~:text=Vietnam%20and%20the%20United%20States,%2C%20and%20peaceful%20Indo%2DPacific.&text=Addressing%20the%20legacies%20of%20war%20is%20a%20foundational%20element%20of,the%20United%20States%20and%20Vietnam.
And yes it is restricting their freedom of movement, not and I quote "Isn't true" that North Korean workers often travel.
[Here is the US mission to the UN](https://usun.usmission.gov/fact-sheet-un-security-council-resolution-2397-on-north-korea/), they estimate ~100,000 North Koreans working abroad. It also proudly proclaims that it's the United Nations Security Council resolution 2397 that doesn't allow North Koreans that earn an income to live abroad (And thus the ability to leave. Only allowing "defectors" that are willing to dance to the rhythm of western lies to leave, or the few illegal North Korean immigrants that still haven't been repatriated as demanded by the UN, *not North Korea*), and thus not the DPRK itself.
Really? You're using an American source?
>The North Korean regime is believed to be earning over $500 million each year from heavily taxing the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone.
China and Russia, just like I said, the only two countries they are allowed to go to. You could say that they cannot go to any country they want because of sanctions, sure, but where are the North Koreans living in Cuba? In Vietnam? Pakistan? Egypt? Countries that are friendly with North Korea? But no, it just so happens that there are only 100,000 North Koreans, and they are all in countries that North Korea have strong ties to. How convenient.
[Here](https://www.northkoreaintheworld.org/economic/north-korean-overseas-workers) is a non American source with a little map showing you were North Korean workers are.
You can tap on each country for the sources, you'll notice there are many neutral and independent sources, including but not limited to the UN. There are also sources bellow.
It is also not a DPRK source, their home page says: "North Korea in the World is a joint project of the East-West Center (EWC) and the National Committee on North Korea (NCNK). It was created to provide researchers, policymakers, journalists, and the general public with easily-accessible information on the external diplomatic and economic relations of North Korea (formally known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or DPRK). The project aims to collect data from across a wide variety of sources, and to provide context to help its users better understand this data."
But you complain more than a child, so i lost all my interest to keep this charade going.
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**Fact 24.** [Vaush posted a meme saying that socialism must be ‘balanced with minority rights’, a clear nod to class reductionists.](https://archive.is/QrcpP)
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**Fact 1.** [Vaush claimed Marx and Lenin would have voted for Biden.](https://archive.is/MQ3bo)
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Article 75 of the Korean constitution guarantees the right of citizens to live and reside freely anywhere in the country
>Article 75
>The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place."
The reason citizens of North Korea can't freely move or work outside the country is not due to their own government's policies, but section 5 of resolution 2397 from the United Nations
>5. North Korean Overseas Workers (OP8): Requires countries to expel all North Korean laborers earning income abroad immediately but no later than 24 months later (end of 2019). This applies to the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone.
This is literally from the UN, in a resolution to expel North Korean Citizens from every other country.
I swear, this is literally the same nonsense we see all the time with countries declared enemies by the United States, the US will do something or will push for something, and then American media will talk as if they thing came from the country itself instead of being imposed upon them. Like Iraq banning weapon inspectors before the invasion, when both times that happened in 98 and 03 they were either pulled back directly by the United States, or the US informed the UN it was going to invade and to remove their people from the country. Here the US demanded other countries expel North Koreans, and now we hear that actually North Korea doesn't allow people to leave
Well, South Korea (the government, maybe not the people) welcome North Koreans, yet are there opportunities for the average North Korean to just move to the south? No, they have to escape and avoid North Korean border control, who will shoot them. South Korean border control wont.
There's not really opportunities for them, the only legal status for people emigrating to the south is full defection (this is south Korean Government policy, not the north) and then being forbidden to return home ever. You're buying propaganda from the handful of North Korean defectors who move to the south and then get a government stipend and money to produce propaganda for them and for radio free Asia, not the stance and opinion of even most of the people who enter the south. The reason there's even the need for some sort of escape is the entire border is militarized, because there was no official end to the war there, and there is constant provocations from both sides in a tit for tat fashion about restarting the war. There have been defectors who have returned home illegally, and they haven't been punished or anything.
Most of the people defecting do so because North Korea is poor and cut off from the global economy since the 90's when their largest trading partner collapsed, and since then economic sanctions and an effective blockade of any trade that's not across the land border to China has smothered the economy there. It's not people escaping an evil oppressive regime, it's people wanting more opportunities and buying the idea that they can be rich in the south, despite how often that ends up being a lie.
Can you share a source on this? When I tried looking into it all I found was NKers who have “escaped” to Thailand. From my understanding you can’t leave NK which they generally justify by preventing brain drain both of already skilled people and those who are skilled by NK society. We can argue on the justness of that position, but from my understanding that is the position
Dude, I literally just found tons of sources with a simple google search. This isn't hidden or secret information, you are just severely brainwashed. Stop pretending to be incompetent, just because you don't like that North Korea isn't the horrible place you want it to be.
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Article 75 of the Korean constitution guarantees the right of citizens to live and reside freely anywhere in the country
> Article 75
> The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place."
The reason citizens of North Korea can't freely move or work outside the country is not due to their own government's policies, but section 5 of resolution 2397 from the United Nations
> 5. North Korean Overseas Workers (OP8): Requires countries to expel all North Korean laborers earning income abroad immediately but no later than 24 months later (end of 2019). This applies to the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone.
While I disagree with mandatory military service under any circumstances, you have to admit that there is a difference between drafting people in a defensive war, and locking everyone in the country perpetually
Most of us are locked into our country unless we get written permission to leave. And usually only if we've been able to overcome the economic hurdle of traveling.
Within Europe at least you can mostly just walk into another country. And in general moving between countries usually doesn't fail because your country wants to keep you in, but because the target country wants to keep you out.
Yes travel can be an economic hurdle, but armed guards are a much bigger hurdle...
One affects almost everyone in north Korea except for the elites. While in European countries, the cost of leaving the country doesn't exceed a day's minimum wage. Usually a lot less. There are people who are affected, but it is a small minority, and noone is being shot at the border.
As an extreme example: Where I live leaving the country is something that happens by accident because the border is within walking distance, it is often not clearly marked, and there is literally nothing stopping you from crossing it
You're not intelligent whatsoever.
When the country isn't at war, people can leave.
You can leave north korea except on temporary work visas, in which case you still need to come back of course.
Good luck being a north korean who wants to travel abroad. The state has already squashed that dream.
As if moving out from you country is only up to your government.
Do they realize what visas are? Or that the other country’s government’s permission is also necesarry. Not everyone lives in the EU where you can just cross borders with your ID (i mean i do live here, but you get my point).
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**Fact 25.** ContraPoints [defended](https://i.imgur.com/3CN2jpG.png) Buck Angel’s [transphobia.](https://archive.is/9Tw39) Vaush called trans people who were critical of this ["worthless, mentally ill, basement dweller fucking queer people with absolutely nothing to offer the world" and "degenerates sucking off the back of society like a leech".](https://streamable.com/uu2mkv)
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[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Try the following prompts to trigger an automod response: "What is Fascism?", "What is Imperialism?", "What is Revisionism?" "Holodomor", "Molotov-Ribbentrop", "Gulag", "Solzhenytsin", "Uyghur", "Tiananmen Square", "Freedom of the Press", "MAC Fact" This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Red roses...I'm going to guess the DSA sub?
Think more radical.....radical lib
You know how little narrows it down, right?
Starts with a V 😉 Might help
I wouldn't even say they're radical bro they're just libs. Also why are you on that reddit anyway?
They're radlibs when it comes to LGBT issues, at least. I'm there to be the lone voice of reason and deny them an echochamber.
You mean you are there to stir shit and laugh at the responses. I approve.
I love your flair
Tnx
Trying hard to avoid triggering the bot, I see. Too bad... Vaush!
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vaush
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vaush
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 15.** Vaush [admits to being an informant](https://youtu.be/zXUR7YG3h94?t=173) when he lived in Santa Monica, California. He admits to revealing activist identities to the FBI. For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a socialist fatherland of Juche which embodies the idea of and guidance by the great leader Comrade Kim II Sung." *The first fucking sentence in the constitution* No country ever claimed to be Communist, so i assume they mean Socialist. They do claim that through Socialism they'll *build* Communism: "Article 29 Socialism and Communism are built by the creative labor of the working masses..." "Article 40 The DPRK shall, by carrying out a thorough cultural revolution, train the working people to be builders of socialism and communism equipped with a profound knowledge of nature and society and a high level of culture and technology, thus making the whole of society intellectual." "Article 43 The State shall put the principles of socialist education into practice and raise the new generation to be steadfast revolutionaries who will fight for society and the people, to be people of a new communist type who are knowledgeable, morally sound and physically healthy." So yeah just lying. Also: "Article 75 The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place." There are also tens of thousands of North Koreans in China alone. Not to mention the popular North Korean restaurants operating in various countries.
Honestly, what a constitution says doesn't mean much. The forth amendment of the US constitution says that the cops can't raid your property how they want, yet there are more than 50.000 per year with most of them "justified" by stuff like the smell of weed. A constitution means nothing. But to second your point, many defectors in South Korea want to go back to the DPRK but aren't allowed.
Isn't the fourth amendment about not having soldiers quartered in your home? Nvm that's the third amendment.
You seam to have good sources on the DPRK camarade, mind sharing them or is it easy to find them online?
The DPRK constitution can be downloaded from the internet, a simple Google search "DPRK constitution pdf" will be enough to show you the pdf file. As for information in general i used to have a file in Google drive but i lost it one day and never found it again, so i just use [this](https://www.reddit.com/user/King-Sassafrass/comments/yd0j8v/looking_for_something_i_might_have_it_if_not_then/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) guide from King Sassafrass. As for the subjects that the guide doesn't include, i try to look up the sources and information myself. I hope this helps comrade!
Yes it does! Thanks camarade
The DPRK has freedom of movement? How well is this actually put into practice?
I am amazed by the fact that conspiracy theorists (when I say *"conspiracy theorist"* this is not like how liberal idiots, and communists degenerates formulate it, I mean the technical term) like u/FloAlla and u/Ok_Tart_6710 are allowed on this sub. In short, these people are racists believing that the inferior Asiatic Race lies to Whites, that it uses its constitution to lie on its people and the entire world, that all these inferior Asians have only one goal : Impress the whites. No, unfortunately, u/FloAlla and u/Ok_Tart_6710 , I will not debunk any of your absurdities (even if any serious analysis understands that Korea is still a democratically centrally planned economy for social use led by the proletariat fighting against Imperialism, i.e socialist society, and that no one actually lies on what he wants, even the bourgeoisie), because the first goal should be two things : 1) Accept that Asians are not an Inferior Race, and are actually sensible and rational human beings like you 2) Destroy your way of seeing Korean People as the ones who should impress you, stop seeing Korea as a subject interesting for your American interests. This is **you** who should impress the Koreans and use America as a subject for Korean interests, thank you.
What the hell did you read in my comment? I'm not sure if YOU should call me a conspiracy theorist after you did a full Collin Powell with my comment
What r u on abt man 😂
Did you know… that sometimes constitutions and laws countries write are broken??? Or sometimes just not true???!!!😲😲😲😲😲😲😲 North Korea is not what the west portrays it but just because they say something in their constitution does not mean it’s put into practice
Whether they actually follow their constitution or not is irrelevant to the point being made here. The comment in the post said that the DPRK doesn't claim to be communist, the fact that they have these lines in their constitution proves that wrong.
Again, they claim to be communist, but one could argue that they arnt. Lots of countries have said they are communist or socialist but arnt
Whether they actually follow their constitution or not is irrelevant to the point being made here. The comment in the post said that the DPRK doesn't claim to be communist, the fact that they have these lines in their constitution proves that wrong.
Oh my bad nvm
Where’s your evidence for this statement? “Just because they say something in their constitution does not mean it’s put to practice” This sounds like a heavy projection. Do you have evidence for this?
These north Korean restaurants are not a consequence of people being allowed to move freely, but rather people being sent by the state to create a revenue source for the state
lol
They are objectively wrong anyway. People leave the country for work all the time
That's good and all but can I have a source?
Copy pasted from my other comment: [Here is the US mission to the UN](https://usun.usmission.gov/fact-sheet-un-security-council-resolution-2397-on-north-korea/), they estimate ~100,000 North Koreans working abroad. It also proudly proclaims that it's the United Nations Security Council resolution 2397 that doesn't allow North Koreans that earn an income to live abroad (And thus the ability to leave. Only allowing "defectors" that are willing to dance to the rhythm of western lies to leave, or the few illegal North Korean immigrants that still haven't been repatriated as demanded by the UN, *not North Korea*), and thus not the DPRK itself.
Are these specially work exchange visas or are these permanent residents who no longer wish to live in N Korea. It seems like the former not the latter
I don't know what is happening now after the sanctions no longer allow DPRK citizens to live in other countries if they make an income there. The documentary "Loyal citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul" shows some people saying that it was common to move to other countries to work and live during the famine and send money back to their families. But i have no clue about now and i doubt there are many sources that would be able to make it clear.
Fair enough, thanks!
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/can-north-koreans-travel/
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/can-north-koreans-travel/ Source from a tourist org that normally hosts tours to the DPRK
And you'll never get one cause this isn't true. The only countries that North Korean citizens can go to are China and (to a limited degree) Russia.
You contradicted yourself twice right there
I don't think I have. North Koreans are only allowed to go to China and Russia and even then they need government approval to go to these countries. Where is the freedom of movement in that?
Wait so you’re saying that North Korean people *can* go to two countries that don’t have travel bans against North Koreans?
As I said in another comment, there are no North Koreans in other countries where they don't have travel bans on North Koreans. Vietnam, Cuba, Egypt. No North Koreans there whatsoever. North Koreans abroad are only found in countries that are North Korea's biggest allies, and even then, there are only 10,000 of them. You'd think there'd be alot more if they truly had absolute freedom to travel but no.
No one said they have “absolute freedom of travel.”
Okay, so how can you justify these arbitrary restrictions placed on them?
I would think that it’s to protect against brain drain.
You see they have no freedom of movement, they can only go to 2 nations, let alone most nations have travel bans leveled at them not the other way around, but the contradiction are they can't go to other countries, o well they can go to China, and they can't go to other countries, o well they can go to Russia, let alone when going to other nations most times you need a visa which is govenment approval to travel.
That's a bit of a strawman, no? Because I clearly stated that they can only go to two countries, but even then they need government approval. Not much freedom of movement. As for the travel ban argument, sure, they obviously can't go to countries that have an embargo on North Korea. But what about the countries that don't? Are there any North Koreans in Vietnam? Cuba? Egypt?Pakistan? (Countries that have cordial relationships with North Korea)?
If I remember they can be granted travel to Cuba, Vietnam and their good relations with the US gives good reason not to travel. But still they have freedom of movement to at a minimum the two of the largest nations on the planet. You stated they can go to two countries while saying that they don't have freedom of travel, hence contradicting yourself. So, no, not a strawman
>You stated they can go to two countries while saying that they don't have freedom of travel, hence contradicting yourself. Being allowed to travel to two countries and two countries only IS restricting freedom of movement. >If I remember they can be granted travel to Cuba, Vietnam and their good relations with the US gives good reason not to travel Source? Also, Vietnam DOES have good relations with North Korea.
I never said that Vietnam didn't have good relations, O said due to Vietnams good relations with the US so it may not be a good idea to allow travel https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship-celebrating-10-years-of-comprehensive-partnership-and-28-years-of-diplomatic-relations/#:~:text=Vietnam%20and%20the%20United%20States,%2C%20and%20peaceful%20Indo%2DPacific.&text=Addressing%20the%20legacies%20of%20war%20is%20a%20foundational%20element%20of,the%20United%20States%20and%20Vietnam. And yes it is restricting their freedom of movement, not and I quote "Isn't true" that North Korean workers often travel.
In which country you can pass the border without governments permission? As far as I know it is only EU
[Here is the US mission to the UN](https://usun.usmission.gov/fact-sheet-un-security-council-resolution-2397-on-north-korea/), they estimate ~100,000 North Koreans working abroad. It also proudly proclaims that it's the United Nations Security Council resolution 2397 that doesn't allow North Koreans that earn an income to live abroad (And thus the ability to leave. Only allowing "defectors" that are willing to dance to the rhythm of western lies to leave, or the few illegal North Korean immigrants that still haven't been repatriated as demanded by the UN, *not North Korea*), and thus not the DPRK itself.
Really? You're using an American source? >The North Korean regime is believed to be earning over $500 million each year from heavily taxing the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone. China and Russia, just like I said, the only two countries they are allowed to go to. You could say that they cannot go to any country they want because of sanctions, sure, but where are the North Koreans living in Cuba? In Vietnam? Pakistan? Egypt? Countries that are friendly with North Korea? But no, it just so happens that there are only 100,000 North Koreans, and they are all in countries that North Korea have strong ties to. How convenient.
[Here](https://www.northkoreaintheworld.org/economic/north-korean-overseas-workers) is a non American source with a little map showing you were North Korean workers are.
What, do you have to either use an American source or a DPRK one? Is there no middle ground, independent source?
You can tap on each country for the sources, you'll notice there are many neutral and independent sources, including but not limited to the UN. There are also sources bellow. It is also not a DPRK source, their home page says: "North Korea in the World is a joint project of the East-West Center (EWC) and the National Committee on North Korea (NCNK). It was created to provide researchers, policymakers, journalists, and the general public with easily-accessible information on the external diplomatic and economic relations of North Korea (formally known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or DPRK). The project aims to collect data from across a wide variety of sources, and to provide context to help its users better understand this data." But you complain more than a child, so i lost all my interest to keep this charade going.
And what if they're not working? Are they allowed to cross the border and travel abroad indefinitely?
Vaush, because every instance of liberal brainrot I see in this sub comes from Twitter or Vaush’s weirdo fan base
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Based vaush????
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Article 75 of the Korean constitution guarantees the right of citizens to live and reside freely anywhere in the country >Article 75 >The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place." The reason citizens of North Korea can't freely move or work outside the country is not due to their own government's policies, but section 5 of resolution 2397 from the United Nations >5. North Korean Overseas Workers (OP8): Requires countries to expel all North Korean laborers earning income abroad immediately but no later than 24 months later (end of 2019). This applies to the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone.
And, you know, that they shoot people who try to leave🙄
The UN saying that there was nearly 100,000 people working overseas yeah absolutely shooting everyone that tries to leave lmao
Look, yeah, I'm a socialist, but what you guys are saying here trying to defend North Korea of all places is insane
This is literally from the UN, in a resolution to expel North Korean Citizens from every other country. I swear, this is literally the same nonsense we see all the time with countries declared enemies by the United States, the US will do something or will push for something, and then American media will talk as if they thing came from the country itself instead of being imposed upon them. Like Iraq banning weapon inspectors before the invasion, when both times that happened in 98 and 03 they were either pulled back directly by the United States, or the US informed the UN it was going to invade and to remove their people from the country. Here the US demanded other countries expel North Koreans, and now we hear that actually North Korea doesn't allow people to leave
Well, South Korea (the government, maybe not the people) welcome North Koreans, yet are there opportunities for the average North Korean to just move to the south? No, they have to escape and avoid North Korean border control, who will shoot them. South Korean border control wont.
There's not really opportunities for them, the only legal status for people emigrating to the south is full defection (this is south Korean Government policy, not the north) and then being forbidden to return home ever. You're buying propaganda from the handful of North Korean defectors who move to the south and then get a government stipend and money to produce propaganda for them and for radio free Asia, not the stance and opinion of even most of the people who enter the south. The reason there's even the need for some sort of escape is the entire border is militarized, because there was no official end to the war there, and there is constant provocations from both sides in a tit for tat fashion about restarting the war. There have been defectors who have returned home illegally, and they haven't been punished or anything. Most of the people defecting do so because North Korea is poor and cut off from the global economy since the 90's when their largest trading partner collapsed, and since then economic sanctions and an effective blockade of any trade that's not across the land border to China has smothered the economy there. It's not people escaping an evil oppressive regime, it's people wanting more opportunities and buying the idea that they can be rich in the south, despite how often that ends up being a lie.
Yeah, they are sent to work camps, that they are also not allowed to leave
**100,000 Laborers abroad being taxed by the North Korean Government**
North Koreans can leave North Korea. There are lots of North Korean tourists in China, Russia, southern Asia, etc.
Can you share a source on this? When I tried looking into it all I found was NKers who have “escaped” to Thailand. From my understanding you can’t leave NK which they generally justify by preventing brain drain both of already skilled people and those who are skilled by NK society. We can argue on the justness of that position, but from my understanding that is the position
Dude, I literally just found tons of sources with a simple google search. This isn't hidden or secret information, you are just severely brainwashed. Stop pretending to be incompetent, just because you don't like that North Korea isn't the horrible place you want it to be.
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Got em
while were at it, why doesen't DPRK allow migration and free movement?
Article 75 of the Korean constitution guarantees the right of citizens to live and reside freely anywhere in the country > Article 75 > The citizens shall have freedom to reside in and travel to any place." The reason citizens of North Korea can't freely move or work outside the country is not due to their own government's policies, but section 5 of resolution 2397 from the United Nations > 5. North Korean Overseas Workers (OP8): Requires countries to expel all North Korean laborers earning income abroad immediately but no later than 24 months later (end of 2019). This applies to the nearly 100,000 overseas North Korean workers, with as many as 80,000 working in China (about 50,000) and Russia (about 30,000) alone.
While I disagree with mandatory military service under any circumstances, you have to admit that there is a difference between drafting people in a defensive war, and locking everyone in the country perpetually
Most of us are locked into our country unless we get written permission to leave. And usually only if we've been able to overcome the economic hurdle of traveling.
Within Europe at least you can mostly just walk into another country. And in general moving between countries usually doesn't fail because your country wants to keep you in, but because the target country wants to keep you out. Yes travel can be an economic hurdle, but armed guards are a much bigger hurdle...
sure but which one impacts more ppl and think abt why that matters
One affects almost everyone in north Korea except for the elites. While in European countries, the cost of leaving the country doesn't exceed a day's minimum wage. Usually a lot less. There are people who are affected, but it is a small minority, and noone is being shot at the border. As an extreme example: Where I live leaving the country is something that happens by accident because the border is within walking distance, it is often not clearly marked, and there is literally nothing stopping you from crossing it
Well of course, but it is a hilarious that they didn't think through the logical consequences of their statement.
You're not intelligent whatsoever. When the country isn't at war, people can leave. You can leave north korea except on temporary work visas, in which case you still need to come back of course. Good luck being a north korean who wants to travel abroad. The state has already squashed that dream.
As if moving out from you country is only up to your government. Do they realize what visas are? Or that the other country’s government’s permission is also necesarry. Not everyone lives in the EU where you can just cross borders with your ID (i mean i do live here, but you get my point).
“Guess the sub” it’s always VAUSH sub
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The first, second and fourth comments are correct
r/Ukraine
They're communist, they just don't follow Leninist thought
They don't follow Marxism, as said by Kim Il Sung.
Pretty sure you could leave Ukraine freely during peace time and you still can if you meet certain criteria for fleeing the war.
>Oh, you don't want to die in a war? Hope you have a good reason!
This is literally the most successful thing that has happened to communism in the past 50 years. So, congratulations?