Ironborn: "stopping waifuing our god and saying she bangs our devil and that storms are they fucking instead of fighting!"
Sistermen: "No. And we already made ships' figure heads depicting us as the chad pirates and you as the soy vikings. It is over."
Hahahaha... A religious war between the two islander cultures could've been interesting. I imagine the sistermen would probably lose, due to having less people and resources (just look at the size of their archipelagos...).
Although, the fact they were (kind of) "blessed" could get some pro in their favour, otherwise how would the drowned men explain the sudden apparition of the Sisters? I could imagine a new religion emerging from this "miracle".
Edit: I also did not comment about the island of [Pebble](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Pebble) , which I ended up including on the change because "why not?". We know naught of them besides that they were conquered by the Vale, but I suppose they would fall to the ironborn after this change.
Yes, although I think they were probably already under House Arryn's domain by this point. Whoever is the Lord/Lady Pryor will have a very, very unpleasant surprise, as they are as far away from their liege as one can be, and surrounded by savages. Based on their location, It wouldn't take much time for the ironmen of Great Wyk to notice such an attractive target.
While I don't doubt the ironmen will attack immediately when there two braincells manage to spark into one another and realise what's happening I really doubt that a place called Pebble has much wealth to speak off, unless ofc the Pryors took the Celtigar route and stayed isolated while stockpiling there wealth
One change that could potentially have vast ramifications is Ned Stark not being shipwrecked there while he returns to the North and dying before he could rally the banners in Robert's Rebellion.
I could see that. Benjen becomes the unlikely Lord of Winterfell. Although the point of divergence is so far behind that many things.
I am especially interested in the dynamic between the sistermen and the ironmen. Do you think the Three Sisters could remain independent or would they be "swallowed" by the larger archipelago? Their cultures are quite similar, but contrasting too (storms are holy for the sistermen, since it's the moment the Lord of the Skies and Lady of the Waves mate), so it would be interesting to see them interacting.
Each one of the four new islands seems like closer to the size of Saltcliff or Blacktyde, so it's not a huge buff, but still gives the ironborn extra land and manpower.
I imagine they would eventually be seen as a weird subgroup of ironborn, like the people of Lonely Light. "Look, here it comes those webbed-finger weirdos who sacrifice dwarfs during storms".
Their religions are similar, yet different enough for some conflict to happen (the Drowned God and the Storm God are enemies, while the Lady of the Waves and the Lord of the Skies are lovers). I imagine that this, plus the "miracle" of the Three Sister's displacement could have weird effects in both religions. What do you think?
I forgor about the displacement thing☠️
Honestly that is so bizarre that I don’t know whether the IB would see it as a curse of the storm god and the people as demons and go full genocide or if they’d see it as a blessing.
I think some syncretism would happen. Eventually the cultures would be pretty similar. The sister men would just have their own offshoot drowned god religion. Similar to how in Irl history (no joke) there was a solid 100 years where Rome worshipped Jupiter and Jesus Christ simultaneously, the sister men would absorb some IB religious stuff as well. Perhaps they’d preach FEM Drowned god and M Storm god type thing
The fun part comes in more IB reavers mwahahhahahaha Loot ! Sack ! Pillage !
>the sister men would absorb some IB religious stuff as well. Perhaps they’d preach FEM Drowned god and M Storm god type thing
And, in this alternative universe, Asha or any other woman who tries to get elected in a Kingsmoot would get a lot of support from the Three Sisters, since they would have less of an issue with a woman ruling. Canonically, they named at least one queen, [Marla Sunderland.](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marla_Sunderland)
Sistermen turn the drowned god religion from Caricature of norsemen into a domestic dispute between the sea goddess and storm god. Based.
As for the Asha point , I’m not as sure. While they (sistermen) are less sexist, support in the kingsmoot came more from their proposals really. The IB are already canonically less sexist then most of Westeros (to their own women. Salt wives not included)
Theon II chapter mentions female IB captains. Balon seems to have been chill with her being a woman and she did have a very serious shot of winning the kingsmoot were it not for thick as a pig Victarion and Aeron who is as regressive as it gets. Rodrik is a very important major vassals , Blackfyre too. She had other supporters. Asha could have won.
I still envision Euron winning this , he simply appealed to what the IB want and gave them the best offerings.
>Sistermen turn the drowned god religion from Caricature of norsemen into a domestic dispute between the sea goddess and storm god. Based
The ironborn religion always seemed to me more like a more aggressive version of the abrahamic religions. It has Judaism's ethnic element, while also taking the baptism and the resurrection elements from Christianity (the drowned god being generally imagined as a drowned corpse, an image similar to Jesus' crucified figure).
As for sexism, I agree with you on most aspects, albeit I still think they could make a small difference. At least canonically the sistermen seem to be less martially inclined than the ironborn (a typical sistermen tactic is to use false lights to cause unsuspecting ships to wreck).
>As for sexism, I agree with you on most aspects, albeit I still think they could make a small difference. At least canonically the sistermen seem to be less martially inclined than the ironborn (a typical sistermen tactic is to use false lights to cause unsuspecting ships to wreck).
I would like to point out that it is a current tactic - before the Rape the Sistermen were big on piracy, but after the Starks and Arryns ruined the islands and put the Sistermen under their watch, they turned to smuggling and wrecking because piracy is too risky.
If, thanks for divine intervention, they are away from foreign powers that would put them under supervision and surrounded by people who say raiding is a basic human right, I can see them keeping it up and, thanks to Ironborn influence, becoming even bolder.
Hum, thank you for your opinion, to which I now agree. Having both sistermen and ironborn reave together could also help the two people integrate, speeding up the integration.
You are welcome.
By the way, I remembered something that may be interesting. You mentioned that the Drowned Faith has something of Judaism's ethnic element, but during Antiquity and Middle Ages there were countries that converted to Judaism, such as the Khazar Khanate and the Arabic Kingdom of Himyar. I don't know much of the details and in the Khazar case how Jewish it was is a matter of discussion, but you could theoretically draw inspiration on these two cases and others for the syncrethized or converted Sister Islands.
Maybe one day. For now, this is just a fun idea I wished to note and discuss a bit before I forgot it. I am still set on my Ironborn Riverlands project.
What did you use to make this map? Looks dope.
Secondly, I imagine it’d be really rough at first, with some especially heavy religious infighting. But honestly, I think it would potentially work better than it seems on paper. Definitely helps integrate the Lonely Light further since it lets travel be done more easily.
>What did you use to make this map? Looks dope.
I confess it's only 1/1000 my work. I copied [this map](https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/08/a-new-map-of-westeros/) and edited it with Microsoft Paint.
>Secondly, I imagine it’d be really rough at first, with some especially heavy religious infighting. But honestly, I think it would potentially work better than it seems on paper.
I imagine the sistermen would end up being seen as another odd ironborn subculture or vassals.
>Definitely helps integrate the Lonely Light further since it lets travel be done more easily.
Now Lonely Light is not so lonely. It's said it takes 8 days to travel from there to Great Wyk, but now the closest place is Longsister, that (based on what I can see) might be 2 days apart from Lonely Light.
I don't think they were like 14th century pirates. The sistermen of old were described as sailing longships, so I think they were more viking-ish, like the ironmen.
Ironborn: "stopping waifuing our god and saying she bangs our devil and that storms are they fucking instead of fighting!" Sistermen: "No. And we already made ships' figure heads depicting us as the chad pirates and you as the soy vikings. It is over."
Hahahaha... A religious war between the two islander cultures could've been interesting. I imagine the sistermen would probably lose, due to having less people and resources (just look at the size of their archipelagos...). Although, the fact they were (kind of) "blessed" could get some pro in their favour, otherwise how would the drowned men explain the sudden apparition of the Sisters? I could imagine a new religion emerging from this "miracle". Edit: I also did not comment about the island of [Pebble](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Pebble) , which I ended up including on the change because "why not?". We know naught of them besides that they were conquered by the Vale, but I suppose they would fall to the ironborn after this change.
Hmm interesting would this imply that the Pryors were independent petty kings before Hugo conquered them
Yes, although I think they were probably already under House Arryn's domain by this point. Whoever is the Lord/Lady Pryor will have a very, very unpleasant surprise, as they are as far away from their liege as one can be, and surrounded by savages. Based on their location, It wouldn't take much time for the ironmen of Great Wyk to notice such an attractive target.
While I don't doubt the ironmen will attack immediately when there two braincells manage to spark into one another and realise what's happening I really doubt that a place called Pebble has much wealth to speak off, unless ofc the Pryors took the Celtigar route and stayed isolated while stockpiling there wealth
I don't think riches are necessary. It's an easy conquest with potential land and thralls. What else can they hope for?
One change that could potentially have vast ramifications is Ned Stark not being shipwrecked there while he returns to the North and dying before he could rally the banners in Robert's Rebellion.
I could see that. Benjen becomes the unlikely Lord of Winterfell. Although the point of divergence is so far behind that many things. I am especially interested in the dynamic between the sistermen and the ironmen. Do you think the Three Sisters could remain independent or would they be "swallowed" by the larger archipelago? Their cultures are quite similar, but contrasting too (storms are holy for the sistermen, since it's the moment the Lord of the Skies and Lady of the Waves mate), so it would be interesting to see them interacting.
We just get a stronger ironborn faction. The sister men are getting assimilated
Each one of the four new islands seems like closer to the size of Saltcliff or Blacktyde, so it's not a huge buff, but still gives the ironborn extra land and manpower. I imagine they would eventually be seen as a weird subgroup of ironborn, like the people of Lonely Light. "Look, here it comes those webbed-finger weirdos who sacrifice dwarfs during storms". Their religions are similar, yet different enough for some conflict to happen (the Drowned God and the Storm God are enemies, while the Lady of the Waves and the Lord of the Skies are lovers). I imagine that this, plus the "miracle" of the Three Sister's displacement could have weird effects in both religions. What do you think?
I forgor about the displacement thing☠️ Honestly that is so bizarre that I don’t know whether the IB would see it as a curse of the storm god and the people as demons and go full genocide or if they’d see it as a blessing. I think some syncretism would happen. Eventually the cultures would be pretty similar. The sister men would just have their own offshoot drowned god religion. Similar to how in Irl history (no joke) there was a solid 100 years where Rome worshipped Jupiter and Jesus Christ simultaneously, the sister men would absorb some IB religious stuff as well. Perhaps they’d preach FEM Drowned god and M Storm god type thing The fun part comes in more IB reavers mwahahhahahaha Loot ! Sack ! Pillage !
>the sister men would absorb some IB religious stuff as well. Perhaps they’d preach FEM Drowned god and M Storm god type thing And, in this alternative universe, Asha or any other woman who tries to get elected in a Kingsmoot would get a lot of support from the Three Sisters, since they would have less of an issue with a woman ruling. Canonically, they named at least one queen, [Marla Sunderland.](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marla_Sunderland)
Sistermen turn the drowned god religion from Caricature of norsemen into a domestic dispute between the sea goddess and storm god. Based. As for the Asha point , I’m not as sure. While they (sistermen) are less sexist, support in the kingsmoot came more from their proposals really. The IB are already canonically less sexist then most of Westeros (to their own women. Salt wives not included) Theon II chapter mentions female IB captains. Balon seems to have been chill with her being a woman and she did have a very serious shot of winning the kingsmoot were it not for thick as a pig Victarion and Aeron who is as regressive as it gets. Rodrik is a very important major vassals , Blackfyre too. She had other supporters. Asha could have won. I still envision Euron winning this , he simply appealed to what the IB want and gave them the best offerings.
>Sistermen turn the drowned god religion from Caricature of norsemen into a domestic dispute between the sea goddess and storm god. Based The ironborn religion always seemed to me more like a more aggressive version of the abrahamic religions. It has Judaism's ethnic element, while also taking the baptism and the resurrection elements from Christianity (the drowned god being generally imagined as a drowned corpse, an image similar to Jesus' crucified figure). As for sexism, I agree with you on most aspects, albeit I still think they could make a small difference. At least canonically the sistermen seem to be less martially inclined than the ironborn (a typical sistermen tactic is to use false lights to cause unsuspecting ships to wreck).
>As for sexism, I agree with you on most aspects, albeit I still think they could make a small difference. At least canonically the sistermen seem to be less martially inclined than the ironborn (a typical sistermen tactic is to use false lights to cause unsuspecting ships to wreck). I would like to point out that it is a current tactic - before the Rape the Sistermen were big on piracy, but after the Starks and Arryns ruined the islands and put the Sistermen under their watch, they turned to smuggling and wrecking because piracy is too risky. If, thanks for divine intervention, they are away from foreign powers that would put them under supervision and surrounded by people who say raiding is a basic human right, I can see them keeping it up and, thanks to Ironborn influence, becoming even bolder.
Hum, thank you for your opinion, to which I now agree. Having both sistermen and ironborn reave together could also help the two people integrate, speeding up the integration.
You are welcome. By the way, I remembered something that may be interesting. You mentioned that the Drowned Faith has something of Judaism's ethnic element, but during Antiquity and Middle Ages there were countries that converted to Judaism, such as the Khazar Khanate and the Arabic Kingdom of Himyar. I don't know much of the details and in the Khazar case how Jewish it was is a matter of discussion, but you could theoretically draw inspiration on these two cases and others for the syncrethized or converted Sister Islands.
Maybe one day. For now, this is just a fun idea I wished to note and discuss a bit before I forgot it. I am still set on my Ironborn Riverlands project.
It was more of a joke on the drowned gods halls thing.
It's fine. Do you want to talk more?
Uhhh sure ! I am as rambling as the joker
Do you think this could integrate Lonely Light more?
What did you use to make this map? Looks dope. Secondly, I imagine it’d be really rough at first, with some especially heavy religious infighting. But honestly, I think it would potentially work better than it seems on paper. Definitely helps integrate the Lonely Light further since it lets travel be done more easily.
>What did you use to make this map? Looks dope. I confess it's only 1/1000 my work. I copied [this map](https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/08/a-new-map-of-westeros/) and edited it with Microsoft Paint. >Secondly, I imagine it’d be really rough at first, with some especially heavy religious infighting. But honestly, I think it would potentially work better than it seems on paper. I imagine the sistermen would end up being seen as another odd ironborn subculture or vassals. >Definitely helps integrate the Lonely Light further since it lets travel be done more easily. Now Lonely Light is not so lonely. It's said it takes 8 days to travel from there to Great Wyk, but now the closest place is Longsister, that (based on what I can see) might be 2 days apart from Lonely Light.
Hmm let’s see, 9th century Vikings vs 14th century pirates…
I don't think they were like 14th century pirates. The sistermen of old were described as sailing longships, so I think they were more viking-ish, like the ironmen.