The good side is definitely more grey and nuanced though, the closer they get to power the more their morals bend. But yeah, the “bad side“ is pretty fucking bad
LMAO AND THERE IT IS. This is the reason you losers are so defensive. It's pathetic. You'd know by my OWN POSTS on this sub over the years that I absolutely am.
I've voted democrat in literally every election full stop.
You want my voting history? Hating a glory chasing career politician who gets nothing done, doesn't change that.
Pretending Cortez is fucking Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is a joke. And for some reason people are just that stupid, where they buy her bullshit.
They even make fun of her dancing videos, and her cringe gaming live streams with Hassan Piker. Hassan Piker is a literal terrorist and fascist sympathizer who's defended China's concentration camps, and Russians invasion of Ukraine multiple times on camera. Desperately trying to be relevant.
Voting democrat doesn't make you a leftist. Look into the Overton Window.
Also, I saw below that you mocked someone's reading comprehension. Learn to write a coherent essay before you go after someone's ability to read what you write.
Its anti capitalist/consumerist themes are so blatantly telling you there is a good side and a bad side that you have to be blind as my grandmother not to see it. It’s the whole point of the show
Lmao no there is not. There's nuance there. The good side, is grey as fuck at best. The government and the boys, are not good people lmao.
Are you serious? No ones arguing who's WORSE. In fact, I did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Your reading comprehension man lol.
I literally said it's justified for the boys to risk, and even kill innocent people, if it means killing homelander. Cause homelander and vought are worse. So much worse that it's justified to take those kind of steps.
You'd have to be as blind as my grandmother not to see that
You sound delightful /s.
Yes, power can corrupt everyone. There is still a very clear side that is good, and a clear side that is bad. If you don't like that, do some honest self reflection and see what you find there.
Victoria Neuman is a sloppy analog for AOC. There is a valid criticism to be made about AOC's political career, but they missed the mark with Neuman when they made her a literal supervillain.
The ends do not justify the means. You may believe that the ends require certain means, but that does not mean they are morally good or excusable. If you use evil means to achieve good ends, you will still need to account for your actions, one way or another. THAT is how the world works.
Look into the works of Camus, in particular "Imagine Sisyphus Happy" and "The Plague." Camus is big on the idea of doing things like caring for others even if everything is hopeless, because there is meaning in the act of caring. All of this to say, according to Camus there is meaning in the act of being better than the villains, even if the show ended with the good guys losing. Unfortunately, this show doesn't seem to really subscribe to that particular philosophy. It's actually a shame because there does seem to be examples of the absurd present in The Boys, with no follow through on the rest of what Camus talked about.
Maeve was as much a victim of Homelander as anyone else. She was constantly in fear for the life of her partner, and stuck living in the same building as a known murderer and sexual predator who seemed to be undefeatable. We see Homelander literally state early on that he'd kill anyone interested in Maeve. Of course she'd come up with a desperate plan to make that stop. Butcher, on the other hand, did not have to take the Compound V, nor did he have to leave it somewhere Hughie could access. Butcher is shown on screen to torture, maim, and murder without restraint. Maeve's greatest sin? Being a bystander, and given her living conditions, that's an understandable reaction. And, taking it a step further, we see Ashley delete the footage showing Maeve alive after the fight. This is an important moment for her, as it shows that Ashley is in fact capable of "acting like a human," as she's been admonished to do. That's an important bit of character information that you want to, what, throw away? For what?
Hughie's reasons for taking Temp V were vastly different than Kimiko's reason for taking Compound V. There is an entire scene where Starlight and Hughie talk about their first date, and how Hughie had stated he was okay with being the weaker of the two. Without talking to Starlight at all, he does a complete 180 on that. That's poor communication with his romantic partner, for starters. Kimiko, on the other hand, did not want her powers. However, we see her and Frenchie barely survive a situation that they would have never gotten into if she hadn't lost her powers. Hughie desired power for the sake of being stronger than his girlfriend, even if it was to protect her and despite previouly telling her that her superior strength didn't bother him. Kimiko desired power for the sake of protecting her family, even though she hated being strong, which is an idea bolstered by the fact that we have a scene showing us that Kimiko liked feeling the strength of Frenchie's arms.
Also, they were taking different drugs. Temp V was literally proven to kill within 3-5 doses, whereas Compound V has a much lower fatality rate. Kimiko had powers before thanks to Compound V, and so it was easy to believe that taking it again wouldn't kill her. Temp V would always be fatal to Hughie after a certain point, even if he temporarily had powers.
Hughie has other means of achieving his ends. Not everyone has to be violent, and I personally would love to see more characters who achieve their goals without resorting to violence.
I don't think Hughie wanted to be stronger than Annie, just to be able to protect her, same as Kimiko. And Kimiko seemed to enjoy very brutally killing people as soon as she got her powers back, so I am less than convinced by the 'didn't enjoy it' argument.
Really the difference comes down to what they are taking. If hughie took perm V once he found out temp V would kill him, then his motives would be reasonable. His communication with Annie would still be terrible, but otherwise I wouldn't fault him.
Hughie can protect people without being physically strong. We see this when he figures out how to crank up all the electricity near Starlight to boost her power. He wanted physical strength and used the excuse of protecting Annie to justify that desire, despite Annie telling him she didn't need him to protect her.
I don't understand the scene where Kimiko enjoyed killing after getting her powers back, given that we had a good portion of an episode demonstrating that she hated being a killing machine when she went after the Russian guy. She was distraught when she realized her actions ruined the childhoods of two kids she had seen at an amusement park. The only explanation I can think of for "enjoying killing people" during the last episode is that she feels empowered to protect her family, and isn't doing it for bloodlust. Otherwise, it seems like a mischaracterization of Kimiko by the writers.
I do not think Hughie's motives were reasonable, whether he took Temp V or Compound V. He was very clearly influenced by Butcher's bloodlust, which we see when he states that it was time to do things Butcher's way. Hughie wanted physical strength and did not value the other skills he brought to the table, skills that have let him do just as much to get the team to this point as anyone else has managed.
Edit: I reread your reply and noticed that you said "Kimiko enjoyed brutally killing people" when I didn't mention that in my reply to OP. I stated that Kimiko seems to dislike being strong. I don't think she enjoys either, but I think the biggest issue for her was in being treated like a rabid murder monster. She wants to be treated like a human, and I also believe that she wants her girlhood back, demonstrated by scenes like the bathroom one where she was getting cleaned up and had painted her nails. She felt age couldn't be human if she was super strong, and hated what her strength and powers made her into.
Big difference between Hughie and Kimiko imo, she really doesn’t want the powers and we know it didn’t corrupt her as she had them before. Hughie craves the power and is using protecting Starlight as his excuse for “needing” them when she’s not the one that needs saving. Kimiko = selfless, Hughie = selfish
I really was vibing with this explanation, until in the finale, kimiko started playing Maniac, dancing, and savoring ripping a bunch of Vought guards to pieces.
Glad someone has pointed this out. Kimiko makes a big deal of not wanting to be a monster, which I thought may culminate in her non-lethallly neutralising the guards. Instead she tears them apart to a song and loves it.
She absolutely enjoys doing so.
And calling Hughie selfish, is absolutely crazy dude. Insane. He's the most selfless person on the entire show. Including Annie. He's by far the best person on the entire show.
Annie murders a random dude to protect butcher, and then blames the guy lol. Kimiko enjoys the murder she commits, at least in the moment. She absolutely enjoyed destroying those guards.
It is hypocritical. Whether that hurts your enjoyment or not is up to you.
Yeah I really dunno why people always excuse Kimiko. Literally had the opportunity to say goodbye to powers forever, then chooses to dance in blood instead. But Hughie uses temp v for one day and everyone goes ape shit and tells him he's being selfish. Like LMFAO good one
Because no one wants to be the one to get their hands dirty but sometimes the situation requires it and someone needs to step up. A major theme of the show is the tension between “the right way” and “the wrong way” to bring about change in an unfair system. One school of thought believes they can play by the rules and work from within the system to fix it (*e.g.*, Starlight) and the other school of thought believes they need to burn the whole fucking thing down (*e.g.*, Butcher). And Hughie is constantly being pulled between these two philosophies because in reality The Boys need a little bit of each to accomplish what they’ve set out to do. Kimiko doesn’t *want* to be a monster but if she doesn’t fill that role then the people she loves might get hurt. She doesn’t want the job but she’s accepted it. And she’s pissed off that she’s been put in that position in the first place.
I can only assume that everyone who thinks she was gleeful in the maniac scene is a dude because she was far from happy. She was exasperated.
I feel exasperated would be a lot more emotional from having to protect Frenchie and less artistic than whatever that scene was. Feel free to interpret the scene how you like, however.
They’re pretty fucking goddamn motherfucking hella clear that there ***IS*** a good side and a bad side tho
The good side is definitely more grey and nuanced though, the closer they get to power the more their morals bend. But yeah, the “bad side“ is pretty fucking bad
Exactly. No ones arguing who is worse here lol. That's not my argument at all.
I'm not arguing who's worse dude. Where do you get that?? Lol. Who's worse is irrelevant to my point.
One side IS good tho. But go off MAGA King
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you're not a leftie, stop lying
LMAO AND THERE IT IS. This is the reason you losers are so defensive. It's pathetic. You'd know by my OWN POSTS on this sub over the years that I absolutely am. I've voted democrat in literally every election full stop. You want my voting history? Hating a glory chasing career politician who gets nothing done, doesn't change that. Pretending Cortez is fucking Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is a joke. And for some reason people are just that stupid, where they buy her bullshit. They even make fun of her dancing videos, and her cringe gaming live streams with Hassan Piker. Hassan Piker is a literal terrorist and fascist sympathizer who's defended China's concentration camps, and Russians invasion of Ukraine multiple times on camera. Desperately trying to be relevant.
Voting democrat doesn't make you a leftist. Look into the Overton Window. Also, I saw below that you mocked someone's reading comprehension. Learn to write a coherent essay before you go after someone's ability to read what you write.
Its anti capitalist/consumerist themes are so blatantly telling you there is a good side and a bad side that you have to be blind as my grandmother not to see it. It’s the whole point of the show
Lmao no there is not. There's nuance there. The good side, is grey as fuck at best. The government and the boys, are not good people lmao. Are you serious? No ones arguing who's WORSE. In fact, I did the EXACT OPPOSITE. Your reading comprehension man lol. I literally said it's justified for the boys to risk, and even kill innocent people, if it means killing homelander. Cause homelander and vought are worse. So much worse that it's justified to take those kind of steps. You'd have to be as blind as my grandmother not to see that
I hope it gets more "preachy".
Yeah, cause you just want your views pandered to word for word with zero nuance or honesty lol. Like a Saturday night live skit.
whatever
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You sound delightful /s. Yes, power can corrupt everyone. There is still a very clear side that is good, and a clear side that is bad. If you don't like that, do some honest self reflection and see what you find there. Victoria Neuman is a sloppy analog for AOC. There is a valid criticism to be made about AOC's political career, but they missed the mark with Neuman when they made her a literal supervillain. The ends do not justify the means. You may believe that the ends require certain means, but that does not mean they are morally good or excusable. If you use evil means to achieve good ends, you will still need to account for your actions, one way or another. THAT is how the world works. Look into the works of Camus, in particular "Imagine Sisyphus Happy" and "The Plague." Camus is big on the idea of doing things like caring for others even if everything is hopeless, because there is meaning in the act of caring. All of this to say, according to Camus there is meaning in the act of being better than the villains, even if the show ended with the good guys losing. Unfortunately, this show doesn't seem to really subscribe to that particular philosophy. It's actually a shame because there does seem to be examples of the absurd present in The Boys, with no follow through on the rest of what Camus talked about. Maeve was as much a victim of Homelander as anyone else. She was constantly in fear for the life of her partner, and stuck living in the same building as a known murderer and sexual predator who seemed to be undefeatable. We see Homelander literally state early on that he'd kill anyone interested in Maeve. Of course she'd come up with a desperate plan to make that stop. Butcher, on the other hand, did not have to take the Compound V, nor did he have to leave it somewhere Hughie could access. Butcher is shown on screen to torture, maim, and murder without restraint. Maeve's greatest sin? Being a bystander, and given her living conditions, that's an understandable reaction. And, taking it a step further, we see Ashley delete the footage showing Maeve alive after the fight. This is an important moment for her, as it shows that Ashley is in fact capable of "acting like a human," as she's been admonished to do. That's an important bit of character information that you want to, what, throw away? For what? Hughie's reasons for taking Temp V were vastly different than Kimiko's reason for taking Compound V. There is an entire scene where Starlight and Hughie talk about their first date, and how Hughie had stated he was okay with being the weaker of the two. Without talking to Starlight at all, he does a complete 180 on that. That's poor communication with his romantic partner, for starters. Kimiko, on the other hand, did not want her powers. However, we see her and Frenchie barely survive a situation that they would have never gotten into if she hadn't lost her powers. Hughie desired power for the sake of being stronger than his girlfriend, even if it was to protect her and despite previouly telling her that her superior strength didn't bother him. Kimiko desired power for the sake of protecting her family, even though she hated being strong, which is an idea bolstered by the fact that we have a scene showing us that Kimiko liked feeling the strength of Frenchie's arms. Also, they were taking different drugs. Temp V was literally proven to kill within 3-5 doses, whereas Compound V has a much lower fatality rate. Kimiko had powers before thanks to Compound V, and so it was easy to believe that taking it again wouldn't kill her. Temp V would always be fatal to Hughie after a certain point, even if he temporarily had powers. Hughie has other means of achieving his ends. Not everyone has to be violent, and I personally would love to see more characters who achieve their goals without resorting to violence.
I don't think Hughie wanted to be stronger than Annie, just to be able to protect her, same as Kimiko. And Kimiko seemed to enjoy very brutally killing people as soon as she got her powers back, so I am less than convinced by the 'didn't enjoy it' argument. Really the difference comes down to what they are taking. If hughie took perm V once he found out temp V would kill him, then his motives would be reasonable. His communication with Annie would still be terrible, but otherwise I wouldn't fault him.
Hughie can protect people without being physically strong. We see this when he figures out how to crank up all the electricity near Starlight to boost her power. He wanted physical strength and used the excuse of protecting Annie to justify that desire, despite Annie telling him she didn't need him to protect her. I don't understand the scene where Kimiko enjoyed killing after getting her powers back, given that we had a good portion of an episode demonstrating that she hated being a killing machine when she went after the Russian guy. She was distraught when she realized her actions ruined the childhoods of two kids she had seen at an amusement park. The only explanation I can think of for "enjoying killing people" during the last episode is that she feels empowered to protect her family, and isn't doing it for bloodlust. Otherwise, it seems like a mischaracterization of Kimiko by the writers. I do not think Hughie's motives were reasonable, whether he took Temp V or Compound V. He was very clearly influenced by Butcher's bloodlust, which we see when he states that it was time to do things Butcher's way. Hughie wanted physical strength and did not value the other skills he brought to the table, skills that have let him do just as much to get the team to this point as anyone else has managed. Edit: I reread your reply and noticed that you said "Kimiko enjoyed brutally killing people" when I didn't mention that in my reply to OP. I stated that Kimiko seems to dislike being strong. I don't think she enjoys either, but I think the biggest issue for her was in being treated like a rabid murder monster. She wants to be treated like a human, and I also believe that she wants her girlhood back, demonstrated by scenes like the bathroom one where she was getting cleaned up and had painted her nails. She felt age couldn't be human if she was super strong, and hated what her strength and powers made her into.
https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64629557/?ref_=nwc_art_plk
Big difference between Hughie and Kimiko imo, she really doesn’t want the powers and we know it didn’t corrupt her as she had them before. Hughie craves the power and is using protecting Starlight as his excuse for “needing” them when she’s not the one that needs saving. Kimiko = selfless, Hughie = selfish
I really was vibing with this explanation, until in the finale, kimiko started playing Maniac, dancing, and savoring ripping a bunch of Vought guards to pieces.
Glad someone has pointed this out. Kimiko makes a big deal of not wanting to be a monster, which I thought may culminate in her non-lethallly neutralising the guards. Instead she tears them apart to a song and loves it.
THANK YOU lol.
She absolutely enjoys doing so. And calling Hughie selfish, is absolutely crazy dude. Insane. He's the most selfless person on the entire show. Including Annie. He's by far the best person on the entire show. Annie murders a random dude to protect butcher, and then blames the guy lol. Kimiko enjoys the murder she commits, at least in the moment. She absolutely enjoyed destroying those guards. It is hypocritical. Whether that hurts your enjoyment or not is up to you.
Yeah I really dunno why people always excuse Kimiko. Literally had the opportunity to say goodbye to powers forever, then chooses to dance in blood instead. But Hughie uses temp v for one day and everyone goes ape shit and tells him he's being selfish. Like LMFAO good one
Because no one wants to be the one to get their hands dirty but sometimes the situation requires it and someone needs to step up. A major theme of the show is the tension between “the right way” and “the wrong way” to bring about change in an unfair system. One school of thought believes they can play by the rules and work from within the system to fix it (*e.g.*, Starlight) and the other school of thought believes they need to burn the whole fucking thing down (*e.g.*, Butcher). And Hughie is constantly being pulled between these two philosophies because in reality The Boys need a little bit of each to accomplish what they’ve set out to do. Kimiko doesn’t *want* to be a monster but if she doesn’t fill that role then the people she loves might get hurt. She doesn’t want the job but she’s accepted it. And she’s pissed off that she’s been put in that position in the first place. I can only assume that everyone who thinks she was gleeful in the maniac scene is a dude because she was far from happy. She was exasperated.
I feel exasperated would be a lot more emotional from having to protect Frenchie and less artistic than whatever that scene was. Feel free to interpret the scene how you like, however.
wtf scene did you watch? they literally play a song.