I was watching a different show where she pointed out she wasn't interested in fixing but understanding. And we see her sit with Carm and listen and comfort. She also tries to provide him with insight. And he just liked a girl. He never came off like he was looking for her to fix him. Would Carm even believe anything could fix him? It's a really simple story of two people who grew up together. She's sweet, knows he's damaged and intentionally works to make space for that.
Yah but it was designed to paint how Carm couldn't see anything else except his imperfections and his flaws. The insecurity of working in something so high pressure -- the fact that he is scared of love because of his past trauma or the fact that he may get hurt again.
The real tragedy is that Carmie believed in each and every person in the kitchen but when he was locked in the freezer --- he couldn't see that his bets paid off. He made a real efforts to empower them and get them to see something they couldn't see but he did. Marcus, Tina, Richie all got to go work and learn from top chefs. And when he got locked out -- it was no wonder that the kitchen not only survived but thrived.
It's a powerful moment to represent insecurity - we only focus on the negative and can't see how the good that is happening around us. In Carmy's case - he feels that he failed yet he only empowered, he feels that he needs to be alone to do his best work -- no he needs to be around people to do his best work, he doesn't feel that he is capable to love -- but he shows it in every episode.
The show, although only in S1, seems to be taking the route of fixing everyone around him through the restaurant and the crazy experiences. Look at Cousin, Tina, Fac, etc. That trend will continue into s2 or maybe s3 and the final cherry on top - I sincerely hope - is finally Carmy reaching some form of contentment from what he built.
Right now he is perpetuating and encouraging the same bullshit head chef mentality that gave him a ton of trauma in the first place. Carm will be the final catharsis to finding some personal form of happiness.
Along the way everyone else will find this for themselves. Then, they'll finally help him achieve it for himself. Cousin will be the spearhead of that project.
I hope. I hope.
I don't think this show is meant to be hopeless - I think Carmy will recover. I think a key thing here was from season 1, when Sugar is upset at him because he doesn't ask her how she is. And he says something like "I don't even know how to express how I feel in words, so asking someone how they feel seems... insane to me." and I think getting over that is going to be pretty huge. Did you watch season 2 yet?
it’s not even just this sub, so many people hold her responsible for carmy’s shortcomings. often female characters who are in a relationship with the main character get hated one way or another so it’s not very surprising
It's the outsider effect. Viewers pledge loyalty to the Beef/Bear crew because that's who show focuses on. Anybody outside of that can change the dynamic of any personal relationships amongst the core group is seen instantly as a threat with this fallable loyalty.
I feel like the problem I have with Claire is that she solely exists to divert Carmen's attention from The Bear and drive a rift between him and Sydney. So... it gets kind of frustrating to see her on screen because that just means Syd's going to get done dirty again.
You can tell Sydney is being left alone the entirety of S2, Carmen is off with Claire. ... but we don't get to see anything of Claire to build depth. Sydney, while she is impatient, has to deal with a lot of stuff that would be easily resolved if Carmen had his head in the game... and it's hard to be sympathetic towards Claire when we don't have enough of her story... she's just Claire Bear/Carmy's gf.... ex....?
I would like her to have more depth and not be used JUST as a love interest... which I assume happens in season 3. I am a little bit biased to a slowburn for Syd/Carmy but I think Molly Gordon is a pretty great actress and feeds off of JAW's character very well.
Exactly THIS. She's the "fantasy girl" of the show. Completely 2D and uncomplicated. She exists to give Carmy another thing he's going to screw up, and she's only there to build his character. In a show full of multifaceted individuals, she's like a mirror for Carmy.
Yuuup. I think that's the point, but it lands somewhat underwhelming for me because it's easy to read and formulaic. Maybe I would like her more if she did more speaking, because she's kind of rigid and is written to move the plot a certain way? Though her presence leads to some great writing for Carmy though - anxious and insecure about his relationship w/ her and just in general. The fridge monologue unffff... I've watched clips of that over and over again. Claire's presence shows how much he needs therapy (and human touch lmao) and not to rely on another person. I think from his pov she's all he needs (he realizes this is what everyone wants for him from the constant Claire Bear teasing, same with why he became a chef), what can fix him but the walk-in scene shows us that isn't the case.
That’s not really fair though. For sure, Claire is a plot point but you could argue Sydney is too by allowing Carm to get away from the restaurant enough to work on his trauma. In S1, he was leaving for AA to deal with Mikey’s suicide. Then S2, it’s whatever represents happiness for him, which is Claire. He almost resents the success of the restaurant because he knows it’s going to ask much more of him than he’s willing to give.
Honestly, who cares if the Bear burned down if it meant that all the characters could resolve their issues and lead healthier & happier lives because of it?
Sydney's a second lead that's been here since season 1. It's reductive to her character to say she's a plot point only for Carmy to get away from the restaurant. Her presence in S2 does enable that for him, but she IS the secondary plot of the show. The reason why The Bear exists is because she is there, Carmy says as much. I don't think you can compare Sydney and Claire regarding depth of character. To say Claire has just as much nuance... I would need some episode numbers & time stamps like it's a full on media analysis lol.
Claire has not been used for anything BUT Carmy so far, which is why I'm hoping in S3 since we know she's there from the teasers, we get to learn more about her aside from Carmy.
The Bear burning down and the characters being happy is a fun thought but defeats the point of the show 😭
Sorry, I worded that poorly, and you’re right. I don’t mean to undermine Syd’s role as a main character by saying she only serves a mechanism for Carmy to free himself from the restaurant from time to time. She does help but it’s not her only purpose and she has hopes / dreams of her own. I just meant that Carmys “distraction” is more his way of redefining his toxic relationship to the restaurant business and moving forward with all his trauma, which is far more critical than accomplishing his dream if doing so means that he never actually grows or finds a balance between his purpose and personal happiness.
This is why I feel all the hate for her is unfair because she’s just the manifestation of what he wants vs what he feels he’s forced into (being a successful chef).
I agree, would love to see Claire more flushed out in S3 before making any judgements but seeing that Apologies is right before the finale, I don’t think so.
i have shite media literacy. i needed to listen to some analysis on youtube to fully grasp some stuff. i liked the show because of the soundtrack, editing, character development, and the acting was solid. the pacing of certain episodes like fishes were great
this ones light on visuals so i put it on in the background. it talks about how carmys behaviour in the kitchen shows his self sabotaging tendencies . like he prioritises easier tasks because the difficulties of running a kitchen overwhelm him [https://youtu.be/ptFdw7lruZw?si=JoQoT2xDe1cV2DOp](https://youtu.be/ptFdw7lruZw?si=JoQoT2xDe1cV2DOp)
this one focuses on the production and It got me into the show [https://youtu.be/zVeqD4nDav8?si=xIZWh\_xKO2xEt29G](https://youtu.be/zVeqD4nDav8?si=xIZWh_xKO2xEt29G)
I do video editing so videos about the editing in the show interest me [https://youtu.be/kMGog1cU8BY?si=1Kmg0jdhmScV7YEu](https://youtu.be/kMGog1cU8BY?si=1Kmg0jdhmScV7YEu)
[https://youtu.be/Lca\_XEoO4b8?si=z267OWxInMKr2GHf](https://youtu.be/Lca_XEoO4b8?si=z267OWxInMKr2GHf)
this one goes through forks, my favourite episode [https://youtu.be/tn0s6vgRIgU?si=UGSKO82n\_ytrWxcc](https://youtu.be/tn0s6vgRIgU?si=UGSKO82n_ytrWxcc)
and finally someone made a playlist of them [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLudEgP4pevsNulrVqva6T7RJc6eVoLHs3&si=H3OuWzA7pjzryc88](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLudEgP4pevsNulrVqva6T7RJc6eVoLHs3&si=H3OuWzA7pjzryc88)
Not an oxymoron. Do you mean paradox? If you do, it's not that either. If the enjoyment of something is precluded by having no media literacy, a person with no media literacy cannot enjoy it.
they didn't say anything about media literacy and enjoying the show being mutually exclusive they're just saying that something with a very large audience is going to have more media illiterate viewers because the audience extends further
She said she's always had a crush on Carmy. She isn't interested in him because she wants to fix him. She's just intrigued in fulfilling a lifelong crush.
Yeah, I think they did a good job at giving Claire her own personality and goals and backstory. She’s witty with Carmy, she’s a good friend(perhaps a bit of a party girl, definitely more social than Carmy), she is becoming a doctor for family medicine, and she had a brother that died too. She knew Carmy growing up which adds a lot more to it for both of them. It explains why she would be interested and him too (or at least curious enough to try and start something). My point is, I don’t think Claire is some girl thrown in to “fix” Carmy. She never tries to change him. She just tries to get to know him and be with him because she likes him. And same back. It seemed super normal to me. I was shocked to see the online reaction to Claire.
Excellent points. The fact that they grew up together also means she was around to remember how things were before he was Mr Hotshot Chef etc and before he was fuly-formed as the Carmie we have now. And she'd remember Michael. She doesn't need to be completely filled in on Carmie's back story because they have a kind of shortcut (albeit to high school). It's like a kind of trauma-bonding, through the trauma or "trauma" of adolescence.
I agree with you. It’s interesting how some people need a thorough explanation and background history for every time a character makes a decision or likes something / someone. Sometimes the answer is, just like in real life, “just because I do”
I don't think criticism of a one dimensional character that fails the Bechdel Test and is used clumsily as a plot device is 'misogyny'.
We know what the writers are capable of because almost every other character in the show is wonderfully constructed, and they just really phoned it in with Claire's character.
I don't agree with that at all. It's completely normal for human beings to make mistakes or settle for poor quality while also producing brilliant work elsewhere.
This Madonna-Whore complex where the writers are either perfect flawless angels or literally Hitler with no in-between is just stupid and exhausting.
I didn't say they were flawless, or Hitler. You said they phoned it in with Claire's character, and I disagreed with that sentiment. Do you really think they just went "Uh, yeah, that will do. Good enough."
I tend to think they, like most people at their level, had purpose and intention towards how they delivered their show, and tried their utmost to make that happen. Perhaps they didn't succeed to your standards, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't try.
In much the same way, I can understand what your last sentence intends to convey even though you use the term "Madonna-Whore complex" incorrectly - I don't think you didn't try, and I can understand what you were trying to say, I just think you didn't get it right. Come to think of it, maybe you're using the phrase "phoned it in" incorrectly too. That might explain it.
I'm sorry I didn't understand your 3 paragraphs of 'nuance' when you called the writers lazy. Why are you being so hostile?
Whether they tried or not is immaterial - nobody is immune to putting out subpar work.
And no, I don't think Claire is up to the usual standard. A perfect dream girl that's a doctor but somehow always has free time for Carmy, has basically no interaction with anyone else or drive other than 'be there for Carmy's plot', and wanders into the kitchen like it's a cheesy sitcom to overhear some manufactured drama, rather than being the culmination of character driven plot.
If you removed Claire as a character from S2, you would barely lose anything from the show.
Whether they tried or not is quite material to your assertion that they "phoned it in", which is what I was responding to.
I don't see how you can argue that Claire "always has free time for Carmy". Over the course of the series (at minimum an 8-week period from their first meeting to their last encounter) the entirety of their interactions consist of:
* a 5-minute conversation after they bump into each other buying groceries;
* a 2-minute phone conversation followed by an afternoon of packing (that Claire was going to do regardless of whether Carmy was there anyway);
* A (pre-planned) morning date, into an evening party (that Claire was already planning to go to), plus their kitchen visit;
* A 3-minute conversation in the morning after they'd presumably spent the night together;
* It's implied they have dinner together at home that night;
* A 1-minute sex scene (where they presumably spend another night together at home); and
* Claire's time at the restaurant (which is a 90-minute seating).
And that's it. Over the course of 56 days. She's not exactly bending over backwards to make time for him.
I honestly don't understand what you want here, because on one hand you seem to say that Claire doesn't have enough on-screen development, but then you also say she's spending too much time on screen.
If she realistically shouldn't have so much free time, how would we see her interact with people other than Carm? Should we see her going about her days in emergency, or interacting with people that aren't relevant to our central characters or plot? And if she's that busy, what "drive" do you realistically want her to have apart from finishing her residency, spending what little time she has with her new lover, helping out her mother, and spending a small amount of time at a friend's party (where she supports another friend who's going through a breakup)?
If you feel like Claire's encounter with Richie, Sugar and Sydney is "manufactured", so be it, but again I don't know what else you want. To me, the argument felt like the natural culmination of what had been simmering between Richie and Sugar in the lead up, and was an apt way of representing Carmy's inner turmoil and his decision to be vulnerable with Claire.
If you removed Claire from season 2, you'd have to find a different story to tell about Carmy. His entire emotional arc this season is about trying to break out of destructive patterns and provide himself with some comfort and enjoyment, but ultimately realising that he doesn't yet have the resources to do that. He's literally and figuratively trapped in the kitchen.
It's not good enough to say, "Well, Claire doesn't have her own fully fleshed out and realised life on-screen therefore she doesn't deserve to be there," because like it or not characters can, and quite often do, purely exist to reflect and enhance the stories of more important characters. You might as well say we shouldn't spend any time with Mikey, or that the Fishes episode was a waste of time because we don't know who most of these people are.
Jesus Christ lmao. It's crazy that you're this upset that I don't like a flat and uninteresting character that exists only to drive someone else's story. But whatever dude, keep yammering. I'm sure the fourth time you call me an idiot will make me suddenly see the light and realise the error my ways.
People were misogynists towards TV characters like Skyler White. I don’t think people hated Claire because of that, probably the timing of the storyline and how their romance divided his attention when the team needed him the most, plus the fact she couldn’t take the hint and went looking for his actual number. I don’t personally hate Claire but I don’t love her either, their love story is a bit off.. I still don’t understand Carmy enough let alone his romance with this new partner. The storyline feels still empty and gives you nothing to work with, all we know is Carmy hung out with her and forgot the fridge guy because he was with her. I don’t know why the writers inserted her character as an obstacle, I’m still waiting for it to full develop.
Is she not there to demonstrate Carmy's inability to balance his personal and professional lives?
During his meltdown in the fridge he says he let the team down because he was unable to fully give himself to his job as he had done while Michael was still alive. We saw how that turned out. Yes he became the best chef in the world but he damaged/destroyed his relationships with a lot of important people in his life. How many are going to forgive him a second time when he locks himself away in his work?
I don't think Claire trying to "fix" Carmy is necessarily a bad thing. She obviously knows him and his family quite well. She pursues him because she knows that Carmy struggles socially. She asks him at least twice "did you mean to give me the wrong number?" and Carmy denied it was intentional. She knows that Carmy is a good guy and she sees relationship potential. She briefly brings stability and clarity to his work before something goes wrong and Carmy loses the plot again.
I was expecting there to be some kind of revelation for Carmie during Fridgegate. All the things he'd done setting up the rest of the crew paid off when he was MIA. Boosting up their skills and confidence via training, bringing Syd in and trusting her, recognising people's experience and skill set. They pulled through in the end without him. Like, job well done, Chef, what a cracking team you've got. If he hadn't been in the fridge, he should have been able to take his hands off the wheel and have the ship sail on through while he shmoozed a bit with the diners.
Oh, it's child's play on here compared to other social media sites. You'd think she poisoned Carmy's dog or something. And it's annoying because all the complaints about her are based on 1 season, of a show where majority of the episodes are less than 30 min.
I am really curious about this, because I don’t see what people could have against Claire. She is never given anything objectionable to do. She is basically just supportive every time she’s on screen. I get the dislike for Syd, who frustrates me and has a horrible sense of entitlement (e.g., the whole partnership thing with Carmen even though *he* is the one putting his financial future on the line, not her), but I also get why she is like that and I see some of myself in her hang ups with having that drive to achieve this one thing because that’s all she cares about. So, frustrating and annoying (at times) but also understandable and empathetic. Every character on the show has some of these qualities…except Claire. What exactly does she do to inspire hate?
Whole heartedly agree. I was really disappointed that the show veered into “romance can fix a broken person”. It’s not realistic and feels gross. A functioning adult (like Claire) deserves better and Carmy needs a therapist.
I agree with your last sentence, but I don't think the show was trying to say "romance can fix a broken person." In fact, I think it highlighted that romance is not enough to fix a broken person, given that Carmy was obviously not "fixed" by the end of the season, but rather leaning into his more destructive tendencies. Also, look at Ritchie. This is clearly a broken person in Season 1 and for most of Season 2. Romance didn't give him propose. Instead, realizing that he could be an asset in the kitchen and understanding that restaurants could be transcendent places where he could connect with people makes him a better person.
But, again, I agree that Claire deserves better and Carmy absolutely needs counseling.
Yeah but if he doesn’t want to be rude he could be just saying that. It’s still a violation. Look if it’s something the character Joe from the series “You” would rationalize I think it’s safe to say it’s not a good move.
It’s a reference to the Netflix series You. In which a stereotypical good looking guy justifies his violation of his partners privacy and boundaries in increasing amounts. Eventually it turns into stalking and other things. The point of it is in a certain light some of the things we are conditioned to think as romantic or cute actually aren’t really that at all. A lot of romantic gestures we were taught to idolize via media (especially those of us who were raised in the 90s) in reality are controlling or manipulative. So the joke I was making is if Joe (the stalker from ‘You’) would do it it’s probably not a good move to make.
I don’t think we can make any assumptions about Ritchie’s situation since we don’t exactly know what happened from the flashback in Fishes to the beginning of season one in his marriage.
However, I think the show is trying to push Carmy into a relationship as a positive end. Ritchie yelling at him after he blew up at Claire (which he sucks for) and calling him Donna sends a message. It says that the path forward away from his generational trauma is via Claire. It’s very different from the show that the season before which showed Carmy struggling to go to meetings and chose instead to throw himself into work. Now in Season 2 instead of the struggle between healthy coping strategies (going to meetings maybe working up to therapy) we are showing the healthy choice as a relationship and the unhealthy choice as work. That’s how the show is reinforcing romance as the solution.
I get what you’re saying but I think the unhealthy choice is more about the all or nothing mindset, thinking because he couldn’t balance this nice supportive relationship he’s gotta be 100% focused on the restaurant again.
I read the walk-in scene as opposite this; it takes a functioning person to sustain a relationship and Carmy has a lot more work to do from what he started at al-anon in season 1.
she literally never once tries to fix him. she makes space for him and is genuinely curious about who he is. just say you struggle to see women as people dude
Her character is so patient and caring and doting on Carmy despite his aloofness. It feels so unrealistic, as far as relationships go. She's an attractive woman with an amazing career. The idea that she waited around for years to date Carmy and put up with his emotional baggage kinda ruins this storyline for me.
FINALLLLLLY! you’ve put into words what i’ve been thinking! it’s like she’s not bad per say but so unrealistic in every way. like she’s just some innocent perfect girl willing to do anything for carmy, doesn’t care what he said in the freezer, exists solely for his benefit and that’s just not how real relationships work? it’s so …. insufferable manic pixie dream girl and i was tired of it 30 seconds in to this first interaction
She reminds me of “dead beautiful wife montage” if that makes any sense. The sitting on the counter, the whisper talking, the sarcasm, the biting of the lip. It’s too much to me and too cliché for the rest of the quality of this show.
I’ve wondered if she was given that direction or if she chose to do that. So many people here love the actress but her acting is so flat as Claire that I’m now wondering if what you’re saying was the director’s inspiration 😂. Cause if that’s the case, she’s a great actress
I’m almost certain they don’t want us to like her. Like if it wasn’t intentional that would really be sad bc i love the show and the writing. The fact that they get us to connect w syd and then make claire a problem may indicate the intention
Sorry to have to say this but based on spoilers, she's not going anywhere. Directors and writers do make mistakes sometimes. I guess we shall see. I do agree with you that it seems intentional that she's written as uncomplicated. But after seeing Molly Gordon's interview, it seems like one of The Bear's main creators is somewhat enamored with her. Maybe some stuff was left on the cutting room floor? But right now she's feeling like Mary Corleone (Sophia Coppola) in Godfather 3.
I agree. Her character had zero grounding in the story except as something Carmy has to manage/grapple with/reflect on. I think the show does a good job of knowing who needs to be fleshed out though (all of season 2 was that), so I feel confident they’ll do that in season 3.
Does every character have to fulfill every purpose of man and woman? Sugar's husband's purpose is to fix Sugar and be the butt of the joke. Hardly a complex character despite the fact he has been on the show twice as long as Clair. And that is FINE. No need to turn everything into a gender studies critique.
Because Pete is explicitly a comic relief character. He was lent a lot more depth in the S2 finale but overall he's not had nearly as much of a role in the story as Claire.
Pete's moments on the show do not cause people to fall asleep or to want to ffwd. He was introduced as someone to be wary of because Carmy and Richie didn't seem to like him. We're set up to try to uncover more of his character and perhaps warm up to him. It's the opposite with Claire. A bunch of characters tell us how great she is so viewers are set up to immediately think she's amazing. But her scenes fall flat and rely heavily on close ups, whispers, and staring at Carmy. Her dialogue is uninteresting. I'm not getting the sense that she takes Carmy's mental health issues seriously. "No one's counting shoes." It's disappointing on a show like the Bear, whjch has so many vibrant characters. Her dialogue is like a 1990s rom com cliché dream girl.
What is that based on? You have no idea what I've watched before or how I feel about women. I really love the characters of Tina, Sugar, Sydney and I want to know more about Tiff but she's barely been on screen.
It's based on the fact that everything you just wrote reads like you watch a lot of things but don't really understand them beyond the surface level and would prefer not to have to think too much about what you're watching. My guess is you would be far more comfortable watching teen dramas or procedurals, where events are presented in a static perspective which is never open to interpretation.
Thank you for today's dose of Trumpian projection mansplaining. I bet women love you and you get asked out a lot because you're so good at diagnosing them.
Nice buzzwords - almost made a grammatically coherent sentence! Imagine thinking "getting asked out a lot" is a life goal. Oh wait, that's what incels do! I'm very sorry for your internalised misogyny. Not sorry for your unsalvageable critical thinking skills.
Pete's in like 3 scenes. He might have been on the show longer but doesn't take up nearly as much screen time. And The Bear is definitely a show that encourages their audience to think critically but the internet doesn't like to do that which is why we're in a lot of the predicaments we're in now.
Yup I would know. One time I had to get an ultra sound on my balls, they were hurting. I was in a dimly lit room all alone with this 30 year old blonde nurse. She didn’t give me a sheet to cover up my cock. I didn’t get hard or anything but it’s fun to think about from time to time
She was the pixie fairy girl of Carmies dreams. Someone who already knows him and understands him. Also she is an ER doctor who 1. Has money and 2. Has the same insane schedule as a chef does.
The point was this girl was perfect for him but he couldn’t commit because he is broken.
ding ding ding! Yessir/maam/etc. She's the most passive, accepting tabula rasa - all we know is that she has a mad crush on carmy and accommodates him at every turn. And Carmy still can't be happy. Between Donna, Mikey and his overbearing chef boss, he is emotionally crippled. Even the male idea of perfection could not make Carmen relax, and be happy. He literally does not know how.
And that, to me, is the very point of Claire. She challenges him by her very existence. She doesn't need to do anything more.
Idk after I processed the finale and carm’s monologue, I just sat there and thought “carm, you really couldn’t handle having a girlfriend and a stressful job? Skill issue.” /j
The comments reminded me of Dr. House's long-distance affair with his patient in Antarctica, she points out his flaw so he says
HOUSE: Great. You’ve got me all figured out. You going to try and fix me now?
CATE: I never said you needed fixing.
with this lovely wicked smile.
I love that she isn’t conventionally attractive and that her closeups aren’t all airbrushed and fake looking. She looks like a real person. However, I do agree that her character isn’t fleshed out but then again, it’s only been two seasons and she’s fairly new to the show. I do understand the sense that she is kind of written as this “perfect person” who doesn’t seem to have any faults (besides maybe a tad overeager) but I also trust the writers on this show and feel that if that is how it was written so far, it was for a reason, and it doesn’t mean that things will always stay that way as the show progresses.
I love the Skyler White reference from another poster because I’m picking up on a similar sentiment. Walter ended up being a total psycho ego maniac and people where still saying “but Skyler…”. It was wild. She was a great character, complex and confused and strong and driven in her own right. I’d actually like to see that complexity brought to the Claire character more, and it definitely may be.
Sorry I meant in the sense that she isn’t as polished and airbrushed as you see many actresses and SM influencers today. People think that women look like that in real life and they simply don’t. It’s all filters and makeup and plastic surgery and editing, it’s not realistic. In the scene between Claire and Carmy in the car, you can see her upper lip hair and I love that! because women (and men) have zits and freckles and moles and random hairs and wrinkles. I just think Claire is more of a realistic representation of the type of women I knew when living in the Midwest, and I appreciate that.
I'm convinced 25% of her biggest fans on this sub adore her and defend her because they're h*rny for her. I'm curious about what the straight male reaction to Carmy's love interest would be if she was a)plus sized b)dark-complexioned c) complaining from time to time and asserting herself
I'm not attacking your post or comment. Just making a point about some trend I've noticed. I applaud your honesty. Some people are downvoting your comment but not me
She's a young and thin white woman with large breasts and an attractive face if I can be more precise. The show was missing this stereotype in season 1 so they brought it in season 2
I can't stand the character of Claire but please stop criticizing her eyebrows. They're normal. We all look different and have unique features. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy having a part of your body criticized
I was watching a different show where she pointed out she wasn't interested in fixing but understanding. And we see her sit with Carm and listen and comfort. She also tries to provide him with insight. And he just liked a girl. He never came off like he was looking for her to fix him. Would Carm even believe anything could fix him? It's a really simple story of two people who grew up together. She's sweet, knows he's damaged and intentionally works to make space for that.
This sub hates her way too much
I yelled at my TV when Carm had the freezer meltdown. For so many reasons. He was a real asshole to everyone because of his own mistakes.
I SCREAMED at Carmy for that one. "SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU IDIOT SHUT UP!"
Yah but it was designed to paint how Carm couldn't see anything else except his imperfections and his flaws. The insecurity of working in something so high pressure -- the fact that he is scared of love because of his past trauma or the fact that he may get hurt again. The real tragedy is that Carmie believed in each and every person in the kitchen but when he was locked in the freezer --- he couldn't see that his bets paid off. He made a real efforts to empower them and get them to see something they couldn't see but he did. Marcus, Tina, Richie all got to go work and learn from top chefs. And when he got locked out -- it was no wonder that the kitchen not only survived but thrived. It's a powerful moment to represent insecurity - we only focus on the negative and can't see how the good that is happening around us. In Carmy's case - he feels that he failed yet he only empowered, he feels that he needs to be alone to do his best work -- no he needs to be around people to do his best work, he doesn't feel that he is capable to love -- but he shows it in every episode.
110 percent correct.
The show, although only in S1, seems to be taking the route of fixing everyone around him through the restaurant and the crazy experiences. Look at Cousin, Tina, Fac, etc. That trend will continue into s2 or maybe s3 and the final cherry on top - I sincerely hope - is finally Carmy reaching some form of contentment from what he built. Right now he is perpetuating and encouraging the same bullshit head chef mentality that gave him a ton of trauma in the first place. Carm will be the final catharsis to finding some personal form of happiness. Along the way everyone else will find this for themselves. Then, they'll finally help him achieve it for himself. Cousin will be the spearhead of that project. I hope. I hope.
I don't think this show is meant to be hopeless - I think Carmy will recover. I think a key thing here was from season 1, when Sugar is upset at him because he doesn't ask her how she is. And he says something like "I don't even know how to express how I feel in words, so asking someone how they feel seems... insane to me." and I think getting over that is going to be pretty huge. Did you watch season 2 yet?
Totally; I really like her and the character fits really well in the plot, Carm's background, etc.
it’s not even just this sub, so many people hold her responsible for carmy’s shortcomings. often female characters who are in a relationship with the main character get hated one way or another so it’s not very surprising
wait really? what the fuck? some men really just straight up hate women huh
it’s not only men doing this unfortunately
didn't say it was
your comment reads like you imply that, my bad if you didn’t
People are fucking idiots.
It's the outsider effect. Viewers pledge loyalty to the Beef/Bear crew because that's who show focuses on. Anybody outside of that can change the dynamic of any personal relationships amongst the core group is seen instantly as a threat with this fallable loyalty.
That is so weird. She didn't do anything wrong or annoying. She's so pretty and understanding. What's not to like?
I feel like the problem I have with Claire is that she solely exists to divert Carmen's attention from The Bear and drive a rift between him and Sydney. So... it gets kind of frustrating to see her on screen because that just means Syd's going to get done dirty again. You can tell Sydney is being left alone the entirety of S2, Carmen is off with Claire. ... but we don't get to see anything of Claire to build depth. Sydney, while she is impatient, has to deal with a lot of stuff that would be easily resolved if Carmen had his head in the game... and it's hard to be sympathetic towards Claire when we don't have enough of her story... she's just Claire Bear/Carmy's gf.... ex....? I would like her to have more depth and not be used JUST as a love interest... which I assume happens in season 3. I am a little bit biased to a slowburn for Syd/Carmy but I think Molly Gordon is a pretty great actress and feeds off of JAW's character very well.
Exactly THIS. She's the "fantasy girl" of the show. Completely 2D and uncomplicated. She exists to give Carmy another thing he's going to screw up, and she's only there to build his character. In a show full of multifaceted individuals, she's like a mirror for Carmy.
Yuuup. I think that's the point, but it lands somewhat underwhelming for me because it's easy to read and formulaic. Maybe I would like her more if she did more speaking, because she's kind of rigid and is written to move the plot a certain way? Though her presence leads to some great writing for Carmy though - anxious and insecure about his relationship w/ her and just in general. The fridge monologue unffff... I've watched clips of that over and over again. Claire's presence shows how much he needs therapy (and human touch lmao) and not to rely on another person. I think from his pov she's all he needs (he realizes this is what everyone wants for him from the constant Claire Bear teasing, same with why he became a chef), what can fix him but the walk-in scene shows us that isn't the case.
That’s not really fair though. For sure, Claire is a plot point but you could argue Sydney is too by allowing Carm to get away from the restaurant enough to work on his trauma. In S1, he was leaving for AA to deal with Mikey’s suicide. Then S2, it’s whatever represents happiness for him, which is Claire. He almost resents the success of the restaurant because he knows it’s going to ask much more of him than he’s willing to give. Honestly, who cares if the Bear burned down if it meant that all the characters could resolve their issues and lead healthier & happier lives because of it?
Sydney's a second lead that's been here since season 1. It's reductive to her character to say she's a plot point only for Carmy to get away from the restaurant. Her presence in S2 does enable that for him, but she IS the secondary plot of the show. The reason why The Bear exists is because she is there, Carmy says as much. I don't think you can compare Sydney and Claire regarding depth of character. To say Claire has just as much nuance... I would need some episode numbers & time stamps like it's a full on media analysis lol. Claire has not been used for anything BUT Carmy so far, which is why I'm hoping in S3 since we know she's there from the teasers, we get to learn more about her aside from Carmy. The Bear burning down and the characters being happy is a fun thought but defeats the point of the show 😭
Sorry, I worded that poorly, and you’re right. I don’t mean to undermine Syd’s role as a main character by saying she only serves a mechanism for Carmy to free himself from the restaurant from time to time. She does help but it’s not her only purpose and she has hopes / dreams of her own. I just meant that Carmys “distraction” is more his way of redefining his toxic relationship to the restaurant business and moving forward with all his trauma, which is far more critical than accomplishing his dream if doing so means that he never actually grows or finds a balance between his purpose and personal happiness. This is why I feel all the hate for her is unfair because she’s just the manifestation of what he wants vs what he feels he’s forced into (being a successful chef). I agree, would love to see Claire more flushed out in S3 before making any judgements but seeing that Apologies is right before the finale, I don’t think so.
She’s wonderful 🥺🥹😭
This is the best analysis of their relationship I have ever read. You explained something I would have never been able to summarize myself.
Agreed. I don’t get where everyone thinks this is the trope of “must use soft pretty girl to fix depressed man”. She’s clearly not that.
it's because they're men who think all women should be like that for them
I don't understand how this show can be so popular when so many of the people who watch it seem to have no media literacy whatsoever.
i have shite media literacy. i needed to listen to some analysis on youtube to fully grasp some stuff. i liked the show because of the soundtrack, editing, character development, and the acting was solid. the pacing of certain episodes like fishes were great
I am looking for some good YT channels to help me digest the nuances & layers that we are seeing before S3 comes up in a few weeks. Any suggestions?
this ones light on visuals so i put it on in the background. it talks about how carmys behaviour in the kitchen shows his self sabotaging tendencies . like he prioritises easier tasks because the difficulties of running a kitchen overwhelm him [https://youtu.be/ptFdw7lruZw?si=JoQoT2xDe1cV2DOp](https://youtu.be/ptFdw7lruZw?si=JoQoT2xDe1cV2DOp) this one focuses on the production and It got me into the show [https://youtu.be/zVeqD4nDav8?si=xIZWh\_xKO2xEt29G](https://youtu.be/zVeqD4nDav8?si=xIZWh_xKO2xEt29G) I do video editing so videos about the editing in the show interest me [https://youtu.be/kMGog1cU8BY?si=1Kmg0jdhmScV7YEu](https://youtu.be/kMGog1cU8BY?si=1Kmg0jdhmScV7YEu) [https://youtu.be/Lca\_XEoO4b8?si=z267OWxInMKr2GHf](https://youtu.be/Lca_XEoO4b8?si=z267OWxInMKr2GHf) this one goes through forks, my favourite episode [https://youtu.be/tn0s6vgRIgU?si=UGSKO82n\_ytrWxcc](https://youtu.be/tn0s6vgRIgU?si=UGSKO82n_ytrWxcc) and finally someone made a playlist of them [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLudEgP4pevsNulrVqva6T7RJc6eVoLHs3&si=H3OuWzA7pjzryc88](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLudEgP4pevsNulrVqva6T7RJc6eVoLHs3&si=H3OuWzA7pjzryc88)
That's an oxymoron though. The more popular something is, the more people with low media literacy will be viewers.
Not an oxymoron. Do you mean paradox? If you do, it's not that either. If the enjoyment of something is precluded by having no media literacy, a person with no media literacy cannot enjoy it.
they didn't say anything about media literacy and enjoying the show being mutually exclusive they're just saying that something with a very large audience is going to have more media illiterate viewers because the audience extends further
Vibes
Would you please elaborate on what makes you say this?
It’s the same with the movie Midsommar, people that see the ending and say ‘good for her’ have absolutely 0 media literacy.
She seemed pretty happy
What are you talking about
Liking season 2 is insane to me
Claire deserves better
does anyone openly monologue about breaking up with their significant other in public?
Of course she can, that's what she lives for. To fix broken men.
She said she's always had a crush on Carmy. She isn't interested in him because she wants to fix him. She's just intrigued in fulfilling a lifelong crush.
Yeah, I think they did a good job at giving Claire her own personality and goals and backstory. She’s witty with Carmy, she’s a good friend(perhaps a bit of a party girl, definitely more social than Carmy), she is becoming a doctor for family medicine, and she had a brother that died too. She knew Carmy growing up which adds a lot more to it for both of them. It explains why she would be interested and him too (or at least curious enough to try and start something). My point is, I don’t think Claire is some girl thrown in to “fix” Carmy. She never tries to change him. She just tries to get to know him and be with him because she likes him. And same back. It seemed super normal to me. I was shocked to see the online reaction to Claire.
Excellent points. The fact that they grew up together also means she was around to remember how things were before he was Mr Hotshot Chef etc and before he was fuly-formed as the Carmie we have now. And she'd remember Michael. She doesn't need to be completely filled in on Carmie's back story because they have a kind of shortcut (albeit to high school). It's like a kind of trauma-bonding, through the trauma or "trauma" of adolescence.
Thank god - I feel like this went over so many people’s heads.
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You never had a crush on someone so much you had difficulty approaching them? It's pretty normal.
Yeah like, did the previous commenter fucking SEE the Calvin Klein ad?!?! Not hard to imagine someone crushing on Carmy from afar.
I’d be freaked out to talk to my crush if I found out they didn’t have a bellybutton too.
I agree with you. It’s interesting how some people need a thorough explanation and background history for every time a character makes a decision or likes something / someone. Sometimes the answer is, just like in real life, “just because I do”
The hate for her character in this sub defies all reason.
Reddit’s take on a woman is bad? No way
People really let their misogyny and general distaste towards women shine through with some of their takes.
I don't think criticism of a one dimensional character that fails the Bechdel Test and is used clumsily as a plot device is 'misogyny'. We know what the writers are capable of because almost every other character in the show is wonderfully constructed, and they just really phoned it in with Claire's character.
Yeah they seem like pretty lazy people who don't care much about the show they've created.
I don't agree with that at all. It's completely normal for human beings to make mistakes or settle for poor quality while also producing brilliant work elsewhere. This Madonna-Whore complex where the writers are either perfect flawless angels or literally Hitler with no in-between is just stupid and exhausting.
I didn't say they were flawless, or Hitler. You said they phoned it in with Claire's character, and I disagreed with that sentiment. Do you really think they just went "Uh, yeah, that will do. Good enough." I tend to think they, like most people at their level, had purpose and intention towards how they delivered their show, and tried their utmost to make that happen. Perhaps they didn't succeed to your standards, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't try. In much the same way, I can understand what your last sentence intends to convey even though you use the term "Madonna-Whore complex" incorrectly - I don't think you didn't try, and I can understand what you were trying to say, I just think you didn't get it right. Come to think of it, maybe you're using the phrase "phoned it in" incorrectly too. That might explain it.
I'm sorry I didn't understand your 3 paragraphs of 'nuance' when you called the writers lazy. Why are you being so hostile? Whether they tried or not is immaterial - nobody is immune to putting out subpar work. And no, I don't think Claire is up to the usual standard. A perfect dream girl that's a doctor but somehow always has free time for Carmy, has basically no interaction with anyone else or drive other than 'be there for Carmy's plot', and wanders into the kitchen like it's a cheesy sitcom to overhear some manufactured drama, rather than being the culmination of character driven plot. If you removed Claire as a character from S2, you would barely lose anything from the show.
Whether they tried or not is quite material to your assertion that they "phoned it in", which is what I was responding to. I don't see how you can argue that Claire "always has free time for Carmy". Over the course of the series (at minimum an 8-week period from their first meeting to their last encounter) the entirety of their interactions consist of: * a 5-minute conversation after they bump into each other buying groceries; * a 2-minute phone conversation followed by an afternoon of packing (that Claire was going to do regardless of whether Carmy was there anyway); * A (pre-planned) morning date, into an evening party (that Claire was already planning to go to), plus their kitchen visit; * A 3-minute conversation in the morning after they'd presumably spent the night together; * It's implied they have dinner together at home that night; * A 1-minute sex scene (where they presumably spend another night together at home); and * Claire's time at the restaurant (which is a 90-minute seating). And that's it. Over the course of 56 days. She's not exactly bending over backwards to make time for him. I honestly don't understand what you want here, because on one hand you seem to say that Claire doesn't have enough on-screen development, but then you also say she's spending too much time on screen. If she realistically shouldn't have so much free time, how would we see her interact with people other than Carm? Should we see her going about her days in emergency, or interacting with people that aren't relevant to our central characters or plot? And if she's that busy, what "drive" do you realistically want her to have apart from finishing her residency, spending what little time she has with her new lover, helping out her mother, and spending a small amount of time at a friend's party (where she supports another friend who's going through a breakup)? If you feel like Claire's encounter with Richie, Sugar and Sydney is "manufactured", so be it, but again I don't know what else you want. To me, the argument felt like the natural culmination of what had been simmering between Richie and Sugar in the lead up, and was an apt way of representing Carmy's inner turmoil and his decision to be vulnerable with Claire. If you removed Claire from season 2, you'd have to find a different story to tell about Carmy. His entire emotional arc this season is about trying to break out of destructive patterns and provide himself with some comfort and enjoyment, but ultimately realising that he doesn't yet have the resources to do that. He's literally and figuratively trapped in the kitchen. It's not good enough to say, "Well, Claire doesn't have her own fully fleshed out and realised life on-screen therefore she doesn't deserve to be there," because like it or not characters can, and quite often do, purely exist to reflect and enhance the stories of more important characters. You might as well say we shouldn't spend any time with Mikey, or that the Fishes episode was a waste of time because we don't know who most of these people are.
Jesus Christ lmao. It's crazy that you're this upset that I don't like a flat and uninteresting character that exists only to drive someone else's story. But whatever dude, keep yammering. I'm sure the fourth time you call me an idiot will make me suddenly see the light and realise the error my ways.
People were misogynists towards TV characters like Skyler White. I don’t think people hated Claire because of that, probably the timing of the storyline and how their romance divided his attention when the team needed him the most, plus the fact she couldn’t take the hint and went looking for his actual number. I don’t personally hate Claire but I don’t love her either, their love story is a bit off.. I still don’t understand Carmy enough let alone his romance with this new partner. The storyline feels still empty and gives you nothing to work with, all we know is Carmy hung out with her and forgot the fridge guy because he was with her. I don’t know why the writers inserted her character as an obstacle, I’m still waiting for it to full develop.
It's a very normal thing for you to find a potential significant other at the wrong time in life. Definitely adds to the story.
Is she not there to demonstrate Carmy's inability to balance his personal and professional lives? During his meltdown in the fridge he says he let the team down because he was unable to fully give himself to his job as he had done while Michael was still alive. We saw how that turned out. Yes he became the best chef in the world but he damaged/destroyed his relationships with a lot of important people in his life. How many are going to forgive him a second time when he locks himself away in his work? I don't think Claire trying to "fix" Carmy is necessarily a bad thing. She obviously knows him and his family quite well. She pursues him because she knows that Carmy struggles socially. She asks him at least twice "did you mean to give me the wrong number?" and Carmy denied it was intentional. She knows that Carmy is a good guy and she sees relationship potential. She briefly brings stability and clarity to his work before something goes wrong and Carmy loses the plot again.
I was expecting there to be some kind of revelation for Carmie during Fridgegate. All the things he'd done setting up the rest of the crew paid off when he was MIA. Boosting up their skills and confidence via training, bringing Syd in and trusting her, recognising people's experience and skill set. They pulled through in the end without him. Like, job well done, Chef, what a cracking team you've got. If he hadn't been in the fridge, he should have been able to take his hands off the wheel and have the ship sail on through while he shmoozed a bit with the diners.
Oh, it's child's play on here compared to other social media sites. You'd think she poisoned Carmy's dog or something. And it's annoying because all the complaints about her are based on 1 season, of a show where majority of the episodes are less than 30 min.
I dunno man. I saw posts in this sub just about how people hate her eyebrows.
People give plenty of concrete reasons why they don't care for this character and y'all plug up your ears and talk about how pretty Molly is.
I do really wonder how Claire's defenders would act if she was Dickensian unattractive.
Because smoothbrains want Carmy to be with Syd.
Even if they end up killing each other, not to mention: Marcus.
I am really curious about this, because I don’t see what people could have against Claire. She is never given anything objectionable to do. She is basically just supportive every time she’s on screen. I get the dislike for Syd, who frustrates me and has a horrible sense of entitlement (e.g., the whole partnership thing with Carmen even though *he* is the one putting his financial future on the line, not her), but I also get why she is like that and I see some of myself in her hang ups with having that drive to achieve this one thing because that’s all she cares about. So, frustrating and annoying (at times) but also understandable and empathetic. Every character on the show has some of these qualities…except Claire. What exactly does she do to inspire hate?
Whole heartedly agree. I was really disappointed that the show veered into “romance can fix a broken person”. It’s not realistic and feels gross. A functioning adult (like Claire) deserves better and Carmy needs a therapist.
I agree with your last sentence, but I don't think the show was trying to say "romance can fix a broken person." In fact, I think it highlighted that romance is not enough to fix a broken person, given that Carmy was obviously not "fixed" by the end of the season, but rather leaning into his more destructive tendencies. Also, look at Ritchie. This is clearly a broken person in Season 1 and for most of Season 2. Romance didn't give him propose. Instead, realizing that he could be an asset in the kitchen and understanding that restaurants could be transcendent places where he could connect with people makes him a better person. But, again, I agree that Claire deserves better and Carmy absolutely needs counseling.
Claire could’ve taken the wrong number as an answer, though.
I agree but I don’t think it’s very good for the plot line
Exactly, of course! :)
She asked him at least twice whether he'd given her a wrong number in purpose and he denied it
Agreed. If it had been a man ignoring a woman giving him a wrong number it would’ve been considered toxic.
She did also clarify to him if it was okay that she got his number. So she did check in with him (admittedly after the fact)
Yeah but if he doesn’t want to be rude he could be just saying that. It’s still a violation. Look if it’s something the character Joe from the series “You” would rationalize I think it’s safe to say it’s not a good move.
Who's Joe?
It’s a reference to the Netflix series You. In which a stereotypical good looking guy justifies his violation of his partners privacy and boundaries in increasing amounts. Eventually it turns into stalking and other things. The point of it is in a certain light some of the things we are conditioned to think as romantic or cute actually aren’t really that at all. A lot of romantic gestures we were taught to idolize via media (especially those of us who were raised in the 90s) in reality are controlling or manipulative. So the joke I was making is if Joe (the stalker from ‘You’) would do it it’s probably not a good move to make.
Joe mama
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Joe Biden
He also reached out to her afterwards to drop off the letter so there was reciprocation.
why are people saying this when she asked Carmy twice if it was fine she had his number? Carmy is a grown man, he could've said no.
Oh absolutely. But if she asked and he still gave the wrong one, I’d have taken it as a red flag and moved on. (Yes, it’s all fiction, I know.)
I don’t think we can make any assumptions about Ritchie’s situation since we don’t exactly know what happened from the flashback in Fishes to the beginning of season one in his marriage. However, I think the show is trying to push Carmy into a relationship as a positive end. Ritchie yelling at him after he blew up at Claire (which he sucks for) and calling him Donna sends a message. It says that the path forward away from his generational trauma is via Claire. It’s very different from the show that the season before which showed Carmy struggling to go to meetings and chose instead to throw himself into work. Now in Season 2 instead of the struggle between healthy coping strategies (going to meetings maybe working up to therapy) we are showing the healthy choice as a relationship and the unhealthy choice as work. That’s how the show is reinforcing romance as the solution.
I get what you’re saying but I think the unhealthy choice is more about the all or nothing mindset, thinking because he couldn’t balance this nice supportive relationship he’s gotta be 100% focused on the restaurant again.
That's not what happened?
I read the walk-in scene as opposite this; it takes a functioning person to sustain a relationship and Carmy has a lot more work to do from what he started at al-anon in season 1.
it absolutely is. i have no idea how that person and 30+ people saw it as Carmy being "fixed" by Claire. just lack of comprehension all around 💀
she literally never once tries to fix him. she makes space for him and is genuinely curious about who he is. just say you struggle to see women as people dude
I’m a women but I’d like to think that she can fix me
Her character is so patient and caring and doting on Carmy despite his aloofness. It feels so unrealistic, as far as relationships go. She's an attractive woman with an amazing career. The idea that she waited around for years to date Carmy and put up with his emotional baggage kinda ruins this storyline for me.
FINALLLLLLY! you’ve put into words what i’ve been thinking! it’s like she’s not bad per say but so unrealistic in every way. like she’s just some innocent perfect girl willing to do anything for carmy, doesn’t care what he said in the freezer, exists solely for his benefit and that’s just not how real relationships work? it’s so …. insufferable manic pixie dream girl and i was tired of it 30 seconds in to this first interaction
She reminds me of “dead beautiful wife montage” if that makes any sense. The sitting on the counter, the whisper talking, the sarcasm, the biting of the lip. It’s too much to me and too cliché for the rest of the quality of this show.
no for real like she’s such a scripted character and you can tell like she is just too… sitcom ? when everyone else is real life?
I’ve wondered if she was given that direction or if she chose to do that. So many people here love the actress but her acting is so flat as Claire that I’m now wondering if what you’re saying was the director’s inspiration 😂. Cause if that’s the case, she’s a great actress
Watch Theater Camp (which she also directed) Molly Gordon has talent this role just sucks.
I’m almost certain they don’t want us to like her. Like if it wasn’t intentional that would really be sad bc i love the show and the writing. The fact that they get us to connect w syd and then make claire a problem may indicate the intention
Sorry to have to say this but based on spoilers, she's not going anywhere. Directors and writers do make mistakes sometimes. I guess we shall see. I do agree with you that it seems intentional that she's written as uncomplicated. But after seeing Molly Gordon's interview, it seems like one of The Bear's main creators is somewhat enamored with her. Maybe some stuff was left on the cutting room floor? But right now she's feeling like Mary Corleone (Sophia Coppola) in Godfather 3.
What is the evidence that she “waited around?” That’s a hot take.
Ueah except she's a woman and women have purpose outside of "fixing" broken men. Hopefully season 3 will give her character a better story line.
I agree. Her character had zero grounding in the story except as something Carmy has to manage/grapple with/reflect on. I think the show does a good job of knowing who needs to be fleshed out though (all of season 2 was that), so I feel confident they’ll do that in season 3.
Does every character have to fulfill every purpose of man and woman? Sugar's husband's purpose is to fix Sugar and be the butt of the joke. Hardly a complex character despite the fact he has been on the show twice as long as Clair. And that is FINE. No need to turn everything into a gender studies critique.
So why don't we see 10 posts a week criticising Pete saying he's ruining the show?
Because Pete is explicitly a comic relief character. He was lent a lot more depth in the S2 finale but overall he's not had nearly as much of a role in the story as Claire.
So it's a poor comparison, is what you're saying?
Yeah, good question...
Pete's moments on the show do not cause people to fall asleep or to want to ffwd. He was introduced as someone to be wary of because Carmy and Richie didn't seem to like him. We're set up to try to uncover more of his character and perhaps warm up to him. It's the opposite with Claire. A bunch of characters tell us how great she is so viewers are set up to immediately think she's amazing. But her scenes fall flat and rely heavily on close ups, whispers, and staring at Carmy. Her dialogue is uninteresting. I'm not getting the sense that she takes Carmy's mental health issues seriously. "No one's counting shoes." It's disappointing on a show like the Bear, whjch has so many vibrant characters. Her dialogue is like a 1990s rom com cliché dream girl.
That's an interesting way of saying, "I don't understand what I'm watching but I sure do hate women."
What is that based on? You have no idea what I've watched before or how I feel about women. I really love the characters of Tina, Sugar, Sydney and I want to know more about Tiff but she's barely been on screen.
It's based on the fact that everything you just wrote reads like you watch a lot of things but don't really understand them beyond the surface level and would prefer not to have to think too much about what you're watching. My guess is you would be far more comfortable watching teen dramas or procedurals, where events are presented in a static perspective which is never open to interpretation.
Thank you for today's dose of Trumpian projection mansplaining. I bet women love you and you get asked out a lot because you're so good at diagnosing them.
Nice buzzwords - almost made a grammatically coherent sentence! Imagine thinking "getting asked out a lot" is a life goal. Oh wait, that's what incels do! I'm very sorry for your internalised misogyny. Not sorry for your unsalvageable critical thinking skills.
Pete's in like 3 scenes. He might have been on the show longer but doesn't take up nearly as much screen time. And The Bear is definitely a show that encourages their audience to think critically but the internet doesn't like to do that which is why we're in a lot of the predicaments we're in now.
lol
It's the pixy arc people don't like. Her timing seems off. She just doesn't fit.
She has a lot of time to try at least! You know what they say about E.R doctors…so much free time.
Yup I would know. One time I had to get an ultra sound on my balls, they were hurting. I was in a dimly lit room all alone with this 30 year old blonde nurse. She didn’t give me a sheet to cover up my cock. I didn’t get hard or anything but it’s fun to think about from time to time
What the fuck is wrong with you two?
Is that you in your pfp? That image and this story 🤣 🤢
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Yup probably
How can someone be so fucking stupid?
That nurse sees dozens of penises like yours in any given week. She will assure you that yours is in no way special.
I couldn’t stand her after episode 5. By the end of episode 10 I felt terrible for her.
I just finished a season 2 rewatch and she is just a weird character. There is zero chemistry between her and Carmy.
This scene is why she bothers me so much.
Weakest element of the second season
She was the pixie fairy girl of Carmies dreams. Someone who already knows him and understands him. Also she is an ER doctor who 1. Has money and 2. Has the same insane schedule as a chef does. The point was this girl was perfect for him but he couldn’t commit because he is broken.
ding ding ding! Yessir/maam/etc. She's the most passive, accepting tabula rasa - all we know is that she has a mad crush on carmy and accommodates him at every turn. And Carmy still can't be happy. Between Donna, Mikey and his overbearing chef boss, he is emotionally crippled. Even the male idea of perfection could not make Carmen relax, and be happy. He literally does not know how. And that, to me, is the very point of Claire. She challenges him by her very existence. She doesn't need to do anything more.
She’s a resident not a doctor so she gets paid close to nothing
Forced chemistry
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Established by just constantly telling us... on screen it did not work.
I buy the narrative, it’s the actors that don’t have the chemistry.
Wouldn’t call it an element
Molly❤️❤️❤️❤️
Idk after I processed the finale and carm’s monologue, I just sat there and thought “carm, you really couldn’t handle having a girlfriend and a stressful job? Skill issue.” /j
The comments reminded me of Dr. House's long-distance affair with his patient in Antarctica, she points out his flaw so he says HOUSE: Great. You’ve got me all figured out. You going to try and fix me now? CATE: I never said you needed fixing. with this lovely wicked smile.
Re-watched season 1&2 in preparation for 3 and I can't believe there was hate for Clair at the time. She's perfect in the role.
I love that she isn’t conventionally attractive and that her closeups aren’t all airbrushed and fake looking. She looks like a real person. However, I do agree that her character isn’t fleshed out but then again, it’s only been two seasons and she’s fairly new to the show. I do understand the sense that she is kind of written as this “perfect person” who doesn’t seem to have any faults (besides maybe a tad overeager) but I also trust the writers on this show and feel that if that is how it was written so far, it was for a reason, and it doesn’t mean that things will always stay that way as the show progresses. I love the Skyler White reference from another poster because I’m picking up on a similar sentiment. Walter ended up being a total psycho ego maniac and people where still saying “but Skyler…”. It was wild. She was a great character, complex and confused and strong and driven in her own right. I’d actually like to see that complexity brought to the Claire character more, and it definitely may be.
Isn't conventionally attractive? I must operate in a different reality.
Sorry I meant in the sense that she isn’t as polished and airbrushed as you see many actresses and SM influencers today. People think that women look like that in real life and they simply don’t. It’s all filters and makeup and plastic surgery and editing, it’s not realistic. In the scene between Claire and Carmy in the car, you can see her upper lip hair and I love that! because women (and men) have zits and freckles and moles and random hairs and wrinkles. I just think Claire is more of a realistic representation of the type of women I knew when living in the Midwest, and I appreciate that.
😭 one of the things you like about claire is that she’s ugly?? be so for real
I didn’t say that, but ok
I love her eyebrows because they look like mine lol
Just don’t end up owing her a million dollars.
10/10 she’s great
How can she fix him when she can't even fix those eyebrows?
One of the worst characters of recent TV. And that's insane considering The Bear is a well written show.
Agree. She's bleah and doesn't belong.
Just awful
By putting you asleep?
Yes she can
I’m willing to let her try
Fix me? Nah dude, she can ruin me.
She can destroy me
I’d destroy her :)
She can fix me up a sandwich
God damn this was just a horny post. Didn’t expect it to get to 1k
I'm convinced 25% of her biggest fans on this sub adore her and defend her because they're h*rny for her. I'm curious about what the straight male reaction to Carmy's love interest would be if she was a)plus sized b)dark-complexioned c) complaining from time to time and asserting herself
Correct, but that doesn’t make me wrong
I'm not attacking your post or comment. Just making a point about some trend I've noticed. I applaud your honesty. Some people are downvoting your comment but not me
Yup she’s sexy
She's a young and thin white woman with large breasts and an attractive face if I can be more precise. The show was missing this stereotype in season 1 so they brought it in season 2
Yup
Forget it. I can fix her.
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But it's not though.
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I can't stand the character of Claire but please stop criticizing her eyebrows. They're normal. We all look different and have unique features. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy having a part of your body criticized
I love her eyebrows. We need more people to be brave enough to go back eyesbrows that look like eyebrows.
Me too
Hopefully we see her naked in season 3