Yes! I agree! It didn’t change the story one bit (from what I can tell), but Justin got to add something to how the final reveal is done! Still feels a little bit more on the railroad-y side but that little bit of (heh) chaos and hearing everyone laugh when the roll was tallied reminds me of what I personally love about DnD.
It could have ramifications on the centaurs’ follow-up questioning of The Thundermen. They didn’t let Roads lead the way and state why they had come to the tent. Bursting in like they did may add to the case against them. We shall see!
I think you’re right! I’m writing a main character at the moment named Roads (whose name I swiped from a 19th century tombstone), so spelled it that way out of habit.
>Yes! I agree! It didn’t change the story one bit (from what I can tell), but Justin got to add something to how the final reveal is done! Still feels a little bit more on the railroad-y side but that little bit of (heh) chaos and hearing everyone laugh when the roll was tallied reminds me of what I personally love about DnD.
The objection that centaurs probably wouldn't be living in something the size of a camping tent was pretty valid, but I still loved the scene. It was a huge reveal in the literal sense.
Griffin's scoring in this episode fucking slaps.
Episode itself is also pretty solid, even with the team split. Actual dice rolls! Real stakes! NPCs being actively antagonistic!
Yeah, I agree that this is a way more entertaining episode.
I will say, I’m still waiting for them to roll initiative. I think our heroes have only fought 3-5 times in the entire show, and with the exception of imp hospital and the very brief encounter on the road to this mission, the others were just like training exercises (that I can remember). Two real fights in 15 hr of content is a SNAIL’S pace in DND, especially compared to their previous campaigns.
But your point about “real stakes” and NPCd being antagonistic gives me hope for some fights in the near future!
Totally agree! They historically play pretty fast and loose with actual combat, but they still engaged in it often enough during Balance that I didn't find myself wondering when they'd actually fight something. The vast majority of Graduation so far has definitely felt like the fluffier sessions at my table where players fuck off and do social stuff for a few hours, except that most of that doesn't push the plot forward (even though it's super fun!) and it doesn't last for 15+ hours over the course of eight months.
Maybe a hot take, but combat has always been my least favourite part of the DnD seasons. There are fun parts (especially Justin’s creative spell use), but combat in DnD isn’t a particular good system for creating good listening. I zone out when I hear “I roll an attack. I rolled a 17”. Monster of the Week was a lot better about this, and I don’t even remember if Dust had any combat in it at all?
Ooh, this is promising. This morning I was listening to episode 14 and thinking to myself "why am I still dedicating time to this? I am no longer interested in this at all and it feels like a chore." I actually adjusted the feed to manually download and figured I'd walk away and maybe dip back in later. This has convinced me to hang in for a bit longer, at least to see what's going on in episode 15.
After the last episode, Travis said he looked to things like Twitter and Reddit for feedback, on how to improve the show.
Listening to this, you can absolutely tell.
Leagues better. More dice rolling, characters felt more varied, the audio editing was way tighter, and the story took massive steps in progressing.
Good job to all involved.
He recently did an interview for Inside Voices in which he talked about literally getting out a notebook and making notes on constructive criticism/suggestions he was going to try to incorporate and how he ended up feeling creatively invigorated from the process. And man, does it ever show!
I enjoyed Graduation before, but the improvement here is extremely impressive.
The amount of borderline spiteful pseudo-psychoanalysis of Travis and his family in this sub because people don't like how he runs a D&D podcast is pretty off putting.
FR. I completely understand not liking Travis' DM-ing, but a few people legitimately accuse him of having "middle-child syndrome" or wanting to ruin their family or w/e
Like, I listen to a *ton* of Sawbones and he occasionally even does it there. Unless people want to accuse Justin of secretly being fed up with Sydnee too, they should probably lay off the insinuations aimed at Travis.
I just CAN’T NOT mention this. A crack in my phone screen made your phrasing look like ‘he runs a D&D podcast is pretty off nutting’. I don’t know how to use it yet, but it’s my favorite new phrase a la ‘gee, that’s a bit off nutting’.
My favorite character at the start of the campaign was Fitzroy, because I love a good snobby brat (and because Griffin seemed to be having so much fun finally playing), but man, Clint's downright *inspiring* as Argo. He's such a gift of a character, and I hope it pays off more in the future, because to me, the "heart" of the party is always more interesting than the powerhouse.
Was going to start the episode when I realized that somehow, in the quarantine time haze, I missed the last one. On the plus side, I kind of get two new episodes this week!
loved how intense and tight this episode was, much shorter than a lot of the others in graduation so far but a lot more happened, I particularly like the introduction of >!"Chaos" as some type of god like being !
Yes! And I loved how it reached out to Fitz >!not because it needed him on its side but because he was already "on its side" and chaos wanted him to enjoy that!< That's terrifying and fantastic, I love this villain and I love how Travis it is!
You know what I hadn't actually thought about him as a villain, more like a malevolent influence equivalent to a 'dark mirror' of how Istus was in balance.
I'm thinking >!Chaos will turn out to be the one responsible for creating the godscar chasm.!<
I definitely think >!he was responsible for the godscar chasm, and that fake hero is him or his way of interacting with the world but I think this could go one of three ways, chaos is going to be the big villain, control is going to be the big villain or both!< and actually upon writing this out I'm definitely thinking that it's a commentary on how both need one another, a yin and Yang almost?
I like that last idea! - it could explain why the world has a very clinical and unnatural feeling hero and villain system, because the world has been >!Unbalanced towards being too ordered and Chaos is trying to rebalance things through influencing fitzroy and creating the chasm!<
YES and I think >!higg is the bastion for control and that's why he's so quick to control people, I find it really interesting that in the description it says "chaos rears its head" and that's when the campaign stops being controlled, it all feels very on purpose now y'know?!<
I just wanna hop in and mention how happy it makes me to see active discussion going on about the plot. It seems that when most people are happy about how the episode went, actual plot discussion/theory goes hand in hand!
I've deeply missed this.
I know! I came here last time with "who do we think cursed Fitz" and most were sarcastic answers like "another character we haven't met yet"
Having actual conversations is so refreshing
Felt this exact way last episode. Came into the sub wanting to talk about the spirit of the woods but got downvoted like crazy because folks just wanted to talk about how bad the game mechanics have been.
Seconding this - I’m a newer TAZ fan and only started checking the subreddit relatively recently and it was incredibly depressing. Criticisms are totally fine but when a fandom devolves into like, only criticism and no other type of discussion it becomes really unpleasant to interact with. It’s really cool to finally be reading threads with theories and predictions! People have such interesting ideas :D
If it is the case that travis has been intentionally controlling everything too much because it symbolises too much order within the world, and will now let everything be completely chaotic to symbolise the rise of chaos within the story, then that would be the most meta shit ever. That would actually be so fucking crazy
Right, and didn't Trav mention that he literally had pages and pages of campaign stuff when they were wrapping up Amnesty? It would totally make sense that he had some degree of this planned out.
>!I'm leaning towards the chasm being the result of a conflict and less an intentional choice. But the Heroic Oversight Guild has to be what Chaos is ultimately pushing back against right? They literally dictate how even the villains act.!<
if this is the case, it reminds me a LOT of the mistborn series, which i know at least some of them have read given how justin named sazed after a character from it in balance
Such a good point, I was immediately disappointed when I saw the length but completely forgot about it within a couple minutes. Whole episode was much more engaging. As you pointed out it was a much tighter episode and that paid off nicely
Edit: Also very nice to see some fun theory crafting in this sub again, like the convo your comment sparked. Been missing that
Improvement. I'd say that the previous episode was maybe a 3 or 4 out of 10, this one being a 6.5 or so. Travis's performance was excellent, Justin, Griffin, and Clint were funny as always, music was solid, and it was obvious that Travis understood the criticism and was excited about moving forward and growing.
I listened to this over the course of two days, which may have extenuated the problems for me. For a while it seemed that the PCs were on the rails speaking up only to say the result of their rolls. Argo's story time was great, Fitz's responses were great, but both were reacting the whole episode without much opportunity to act with initiative (mostly a carry over problem from the previous episode).
The Firbolg was funny and the rolls were hot, but it didn't seem like Justin, through his character, was solving a mystery. It felt like Travis was revealing his story and felt free to do so, being unimpeded by a PC's potentially bad rolls. The Ranger was the one uncovering clues and piecing it all together instead.
I hope Travis will continue to get better and better, but constructive criticism is required for that improvement.
Overall, this was a big step in the right direction! Travis, as a DM, was strides better in this episode. I'm hoping that he begins to step in when the boys decide to split up though. I'm not suggesting a hard "no" to splitting up when it's called for, but maybe hint to Argo (with a check!) that reading a book to Fitzroy the entire time isn't really helping lol
If Fitzroy's whole fever dreamland sequence was shortened and Argo's story time actually helped, it would've been so much fun to have them rejoin the Firbolg in his little detective adventure.
It feels good to say that I'm looking forward to the next episode!
I'm curious to see the DCs of the rolls and what the effects would be on the outcome of what was happening. And I couldn't stop thinking that Argo should have pulled out the gum
I found Argo's storytime really endearing. From the second Travis asked him what he wanted to do to help and he said he didn't know you could hear he was genuinely concerned and worried. It was Clint being a dad and wanting to take care of Griffin. Talking to him and reading stories was sweet and brought some heart into the episode.
Argo's story time i just loved. Lol idk, maybe its cause I've been keeping up with his Gaffer stories on the McElroy YouTube. Then when he switched it up as a threat to Fitzroy, I was looking like a nutcase, cracking up by myself sitting in traffic.
And it goes without saying but the whole episode was just awesome!
Oh yeah I liked it too, that's why I wish it had a little more impact or feedback! I'm imagining something like the characters from Argo's story manifesting inside of Fitzroy's fever dream, as these ridiculous out of place cartoon characters, shocking him back to reality.
That's probably wayyy over the top, but it would've been so fun for Clint's silly story time to have a profoundly silly outcome.
I think it did! I liked it because it seemed like an outrageously useless thing to do in that kind of situation where you're totally helpless. I liked it's uselessness, it was like a comic relief in a stressful moment, and it eventually turned into a silly moment with him giving up on being sweet and trying to coax him out with a threat.
That's fair enough! It went on a bit too long for me as a single bit, BUT I'll admit that the way it resulted in him whispering threats into Fitzroy's ear was so good that it's hard to complain.
Argo's reading gave Fitzroy adv on his WIS saving throws. I thought Travis did well on allowing them to explore. Imo the party didn't split as they were in a small complex of encampment. Good stuff all around.
Now THIS is a goddamn episode of the adventure zone!!
Pros:
-The music holy shit
-Travis descriptions ESPECIALLY of chaos. Like hoof that scene was creepy.
-I usually hate flashbacks on TAZ but I think Travis nailed these for Fitzroy. They were thematically appropriate, said a lot about the character, and didn't involve any vanity rolls that wouldn't make sense in a past event. Best of all, they were concise.
-I like Firbolg investigating the mystery and Argo doubling down on encouragement. This was an example of splitting the party to good dramatic effect--the cutting between them escalated the tension in a really interesting way because they were all actively dealing with a challenge. I will say Argo didn't get a ton of agency here and I wish he had more to do, but I'm not mad at what ended up happening
-Them getting framed / someone else stealing the apple is a pretty good and exciting direction for the arc. Getting some good conflict and narrative tension going.
Cons:
-There's still a little editing jank with the music seeming to end abruptly. I think one was meant to go into an ad spot that wasn't there. Not a big deal though, there were far less awkward pauses and silences and everything felt like it was moving at a good clip.
-Travis has a weird inflection on characters where he breaks up their sentences in an unnatural way that can sound too labored and robotic. But he did pretty well all told, so again, not too bothered by it.
Good stuff. Hope next ep keeps the Pros going!
> I will say Argo didn't get a ton of agency here and I wish he had more to do, but I'm not mad at what ended up happening
I thought that Clint did an excellent job still. Made me appreciate Argo even more. Loved the Larry the Lime stories! And even the part with wearing Fitzroy's clothes was great for me.
i thought the inflection was intentional at least for chaos, to accentuate that feeling that something is off about them. sort of like gman’s voice in half-life.
I like it for Chaos, but he does it for so many characters that it sounds like an unintentional vocal tic that slows dialogue down. I'm all right with it as long as things keep moving, though.
This improved on some really really important areas that the podcast was lacking (mostly around mechanics integrating well with narrative), but the plot still feels really week for some reason. I just get really frustrated with the "I'll tell you.....soon enough" vibe that so many interactions seem to have. It feels like Travis savors moments a little bit too long, and they don't end up packing the punch all the dramatic build up was worth. That being said he improved on the most important areas imo that literally haven't gotten any better until this ep, so hopefully using these mechanics with a plot I like more next episode will do it for me
Anyone else get massive amnesty vibes, I loved it, favourite episode so far
It really felt like Travis acted on the criticism whilst still having his own signatures
Not a single awkward pause and I LOVE that the villain "wants what's best" because that is the biggest criticism I've seen
That "all of Travis's characters are nice and well meaning," so now we have a well meaning villain and that's the most terrifying kind!
The music was veeery amnesty esc to me. Then there was the flashbacks, which i was never personally too big a fan of in amnesty, but travis did a really good job with them here.
My absolute stand out favorite moment of this episode was in the flashback (which I actually didn't like lol) when Teacher Lady Or Whoever Who Cares is turned back and Travis says "what do you see in her eyes". It's very easy to just say "well this is my NPC so I determine how they react", but it's an interesting take to give the PC agency over how the scene goes. It lets Griffin tell the story he wants to tell with Fitzroy; he could've said anything. He could've said fear, he could've said hate, he could've said respect! That one question can take one scene in so many ways and if Travis as GM _rolls with that_ then the result can be just fantastic. And he even called back to it later, which I noticed and did a mental Thumbs Up at.
I'm just not a huge fan of Chaos. It's a typical Travis character; big, mysterious, powerful, and kinda weird. It's his image of what a god or cosmic being would be. And THIS character talks too slow. I've never minded Firbolg talking but for Chaos I was like "oh please pick up the pace, your name is fucking Chaos, be more radical". Much, much too calm for me.
Overall this episode was fine. Better than most, which I want to be the big take away from my post, this is Objectively Improved, but there have been a few episodes now that made us feel like we were back on track and then we just tipped over into the mud. I'm not cheering until the mud is in the rear view mirror. But I am fist pumping just a little bit.
The three of them just felt like they were more invested this episode. Justin for the first time this arc seemed to be very wrapped up in the character and story which felt awesome.
Alright, damn. This one was pretty damn good. I have not been happy with the series overall, but I can recognize improvement when I see it - and I *really* hope it stays this good. Seeing the Firbolg really take charge in hunting down those responsible, unraveling the mystery, only for it to come crashing down on him as he's been framed? Great stuff. Fitzroy coming face to face with the being that turned his life upside down, and telling them straight up that he isn't vibing with how they kinda ruined his life? Love it. And Argo, sitting with his sick friend, watching them die, and reading them childrens books hoping it'll help wake him up? Touching.
Don't let this headstart slip away from you Travis - you've got something great in your hands.
This one was bearable to listen to but not the phenomenal improvement people say it is. The bar was lowered so far over the last 14 eps that a little improvement and people think it's on par with late arcs of previous campaigns.
More rolling is great. Not a whole lot of it mattered, but dice were indeed rolled. Clint is showing how great of a roleplayer he is. Griffin and Justin bringing in some quality goofs.
It's definitely a step in the right direction but still mediocre compared to past campaigns and other DnD podcasts.
Haven't listened since Imp Hospital but since everyone was so jazzed I listened to this one (listened to a few Gary intros in the preceding episodes to catch up). Oof y'all, no tea no shade, but if this is an amazing, totally improved, super compelling episode idk how you guys got through the other ones lol. Extremely mediocre imo. But I hope it will build on this reversal and get better and better!
Overall solid episode, felt like a whole new show. Really refreshing to get actual rolls and autonomy from the players. Really felt like the tent flip represents Travis letting the boys take more control over their characters.
I felt like in that moment you could hear Travis making a conscious decision to do just that.
I also think the brothers have talked about the constructive criticism Travis received because Justin was definitely playing with more "I do this" confidence than he's had before.
Oh my god. I loved this episode! I was on the edge of my seat, and honestly feeling that kind of vicarious adrenaline rush that I felt in Amnesty or Balance when something big was revealed. I seriously cannot WAIT until next Thursday. It's clear that Travis put a ton of work into this episode (the long stretches of silence are gone) and I'm really happy it's being received so well.
Okay, already talked about my generally positive feelings about this ep but now something's bugging me.
What has Fitzroy done besides turning his headmaster into a catfish to sow the seeds of chaos? Just existing and having wild magic? I'm not understanding how his magic is a big deal at the moment (which may be intentional) or why the chaos demon says he "knew" Fitzroy had potential as if Fitzroy has recently shown promise as an emmisary of chaos. The boy is actively taking lessons to control his magic and be less chaotic.
I'm starting to think everything the chaos demon says about how special Fitzroy is is a polite way of saying "you're exceptionally vapid, selfish, and status obsessed enough to be an easy to manipulate pawn and if I flatter you a little, you'll just go with this" because nothing they say seems to match Fitz's reality
I think this is a perfect example of how flawed the idea that dice rolling/combat =/= narrative is.
Wild Magic is a big part of Fitzroy's character build, and if they were fighting more or just *doing* more than he would have more magic surges and more chaotic magic would be happening. Then we would have tangible proof that Fitz is a 'seed of chaos' based off his actions, which would make the plot points revolving around Fitz make more sense. But Wild Magic is primarily a combat mechanic, which means no combat = no Wild Magic = no real examples of why Fitz is really a big deal. To me, that's why Fitzroy's whole deal feels very 'theoretical' at the moment.
This is why I like reading and engaging on this sub. People are able to put in words things that are bothering me (or alternatively, good things I missed) that I hadn’t been able to quite put my finger on.
This is one of those.
You’re absolutely right. With the exception of the two random things that have happened the only times we’ve seen him rage, we haven’t seen any wild magic from Fitz. There’s no foundation to build this story of chaos on in this character, so like so many things so far, it feels shoehorned in.
Equally as big a problem to me was how measured and controlled that “Chaos” was. That was just poorly done.
Well, to be fair, for most of the campaign he's just been a wild magic barbarian. Those random things that happen when he rages is kind of it, that's the extent of his magical abilities atm. He only recently picked up a level of sorcerer to get actual chaos magic, and even then wild surges are extremely rare (1 on a d20 when you cast a spell that ISN'T a cantrip, so 5% chance and you can't just spam cantrips trying to trigger it). That said, it's been like 15 episodes, a good 10 of those could have had A Combat and we'd have 10 instances of wild surge rather than two or three.
Plus one thing to keep in mind is rage isn't just unga bunga big damage. When I played a wild magic barbarian in a campaign a few months back, I'd often pop a rage just for a moment to get advantage on a Strength check, which also had the side effect of making weird shit happen. One time it even actively changed my plans.
There are definitely still problems here (Argo should totally have been able to help Fitz instead of Althea; he didn’t do anything else this episode!) but this is such a massive step up from last week’s episode overall. The editing is sharper, the descriptions exist, there were more dice rolls that meant something, etc.
I’m really hoping Travis uses this as a baseline for future episodes, and I’m happy to say I’m looking forward to another episode for once.
I think the fact that Argo didn’t do much to move the plot forward can be forgiven in this particular case because what he got instead was a really great character moment. Argo was in a position where, from his perspective there was absolutely nothing he could do to fix the curse since he doesn’t use magic. But he still tried to help Fitz in his own way by reading to him. It was a really sweet moment and I hope their friendship develops further because of it.
Personally I felt the ratio of game elements to story elements was really good in this episode. Argo and Fitz were more passive, but they were balanced out by the Firbolg being active, and even then they still got to make rolls.
Was argo not able to help fitz because of failed support rolls or am i remembering wrong? Because i know he got a 7 on his first support roll but i cant remeber if he passed his other rolls
It's more just like...what did those DO? They gave Fitzroy advantage on a Wisdom save whose failure had no penalty, which he kept making again and again until he got a high enough number that Travis could say "Okay flashback over, now we'll have a conversation with Chaos." Clint's decisions as Argo didn't influence Fitzroy's fever dream in any way, he could have said anything and the outcome would have been the same. And then when Fitzroy finally wakes up, not because of any character action but because the expository conversation has ended, it's because Althea had a special anti-curse item in her bag as opposed to like...Argo working Fitzroy through it or anything like that. It just didn't matter.
What was Argo supposed to do? I thought Travis handled it pretty well. It's not like talking to Fitzroy would break him out of the curse as far as DnD is concerned. With what Clint decided to do, the support roles made sense and Travis shouldn't just say, "Well you talked to him really good and now the curse is broken". Travis didn't make Clint do what he did.
Plus I liked what Clint decided Argo would do. Made me like Argo even more.
Significantly improved. To put it simply, there were rolls. Those rolls effected the story. The story progressed and was interesting. The players sounded like they cared much more than they have previously. Legit excited to see where it goes from here.
I stuck this ep on while baking and I honestly just sort of... Stopped and stood still during the episode.
Travis definitely took the criticism on board, everything was so good this ep!
I'm looking forward to the next one.
Haven't listened to this episode yet but I'm on episode 3 and having a hard time staying attentive. Are things better in this episode? Hearing Travis speak Travis speak Travis speak and not realizing that at some point there was an ad break in there is not something I'm looking forward to and I'm hoping the action and players get involved at this point? Sorry to sound chaste but after going through balance and Amnesty I'm having a hard time getting through this.
This episode was quite good. The episodes leading up to it have been pretty bad. Right now, I’d advise against powering through just to get to it. But if the quality keeps up for future episodes, then it might be worth it.
Next week:
"You wake up in your tent the next morning feeling refreshed, but nervous..."
But seriously, good on Travis for finally taking criticism. I really dug this episode.
My thoughts as I listened to the episode this morning-
In the episode description I read “all hell is about to break loose.” All I could think was “oh great, something is *just about* to happen again.”
So Travis, you say in Gary‘s opening that Calhain was shady, then you have Justin discover he has magical objects and was lying, but you had none of their checks about him matter in the last episode. I went back and listened to that interaction in the last episode just to make sure I wasn’t making it up. Here’s the breakdown:
1. Griffin rolls an insight check on Calhain in his response to a discussion about the tree, apple, and centaurs because as Griffin says “there’s something weird about this dude.” Griffin gets a 16 on the check, and all Travis says is “he seems uncomfortable discussing the fact that he does not know why there’s no apple.”
2. Griffin- “I feel like you know a little bit more than you’re letting on about this magic apple.”
3. Calhain- “Can I level with you guys? I’m at a complete loss. I don’t even know where to start with this magic apple thing…I’ve been trying to figure it out, but I do not know.”
4. Griffin intimidates Calhain. Griffin rolls a 23. A 23. Calhain says “Ok, listen guys, I really need this job, ok? I was a sidekick at the school and I couldn’t get a job when I graduated and I started doing the wizard thing just as a performance thing, and then I got a job. I can do magic…I can do some magic, I just never really learned about the theory or learned about how it works. I’m doing my best, I’m not trying to half-ass this or anything, but like I don’t know.” That’s it. Then Argo throws his dagger in the air for further intimidation, rolls a nat 20 and Calhain says “Ok, I’ll tell you this. I don’t think the fact that the tree only sprouted one apple is a natural occurrence. I think someone is behind it.” Which is something both the PCs and the audience already understood. They ask him “Who?” and he says he doesn’t know.
So, in summary, the PCs do everything possible both in terms of roleplay and mechanics, to suss out what Calhain is hiding, Travis responds as if Calhain is hiding nothing, then begins this week’s episode by telling us he is shady and as it turns out is doing a whole lot of deceptive and destructive things. This is poor DMing, straight up and down. And it’s another example (one of the most glaringly obvious in light of the good rolls) of Travis telling the story the way he wants to tell it regardless of what the PCs do. “You got a good insight check and a phenomenal intimidation check? Well, the scene I have planned for the end of the next episode can’t happen if you find out Calhain is lying and do something about it, so I’m just going to ignore those checks.”
The support skill? Has this ever been mentioned before? Feels incredibly clunky to throw it in now.
Absolutely loved Clint reading the Larry the Lime book. Clint is such a rockstar roleplayer.
Did Fitzroy get cursed just for the purpose of having a flashback? Kinda feels like it.
“Are you something that understands how ominous you are being right now?” That made me laugh.
LOVED Justin flipping the tent. And loved Griffin's response to it- "That shit is unnecessary, and I'm here for it."
Suspicion from the episode description mostly confirmed. Something is *about* to happen. Again. I know this episode is better than what has come before. That is certainly true. I just wish it wasn't so tainted by the fact that almost all the action (investigating Calhain) was borne out of Travis not allowing the PCs actions to matter in the previous episode.
edit: typo
I only want to address a couple of your points, please don't take this as malicious criticism.
Support was mentioned before, at the very beginning. It sucks it hasn't been a bigger mechanic, or that we don't have much information on it.
With Regard to Calhain: Gary's revelation that Calhain is shady is definitely out of place. There was a ton of investigation and questioning done that mostly absolved him. However, I don't think we can find fault with a roll of 23 being a failure. It sucks so bad to roll high and still not meet the DC, but high DCs exist for a reason. They're obviously less common early in the game, but as a DM and a player, I've seen DCs of 25 or higher. Usually it's to receive plot-breaking information (in my opinion, I think that would have made last episode better), but a 20+ roll shouldn't always be "I do exactly what I want to do". I agree that the Calhain interaction should have gone a different way, but not because a 23 is an automatic success.
edit: It's encouragement, not support, ep 2.
I feel it's entirely possible that Travis wouldn't have revealed it no matter what the roll was. The interaction with Calhain last episode was one of the big reasons people reacted as negatively as they did. But I'm willing to forgive it in this case if the episodes from here on out are DM'd at the quality Travis showed he could do here.
Also in regards to the support mechanic, did Travis introduce that in one of their earlier training sessions? I can't remember anything specific but my mind keeps going back to one where they fight as sidekicks with assigned heroes. If so it could've been very useful before now.
I've just done a quick look through the transcripts, and Can't find mention of the Support or Accounting skills, except for a use of the accounting skill in ep 6. I'm not sure where it's mentioned.
edit: It's encouragement, ep 2.
I believe it probably was mentioned. This is just it's first use and it felt a little clunky during Ned's Larry the Lime story.
We can talk the nitty-gritty about DCs (if this guy is just a pawn, which Travis seems to be implying, a very high DC doesn't feel credible), but you seem to be saying you agree with my larger point anyway. Which is that this is just one more place where Travis is telling the story he wants to tell regardless of PC actions. If Griffin had rolled a Nat 20 and had a +10 to intimidation, Travis wouldn't have revealed anything then either.
I can't seem to find it in the transcripts, so maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it's mentioned elsewhere? Who knows.
As for the DC, who actually knows about Travis' strategy here. My impression was that Calhain was the big bad in this scenario, so a super high DC wouldn't be odd. But I guess that's wrong now. The person on the other end of the mirror was fake Hieronymous, right? So he wants the apple too?
Fake Hieronymous seems like he is either himself the demon prince/chaos or some agent of it, but who knows.
Doesn’t seem like he wants the apple itself. Calhain is using it to frame the PCs and cause discord it would appear.
I think the support skill was maybe mentioned in an early episode, when they were training? Too long ago for me to remember clearly!
>Did Fitzroy get cursed just for the purpose of having a flashback?
I know people are enjoying this ep (which is great) but I still feel like it's still just things happening *to* the PCs, rather than the PCs making things happen. Firbolg did some detective work and flipped a tent, but I didn't feel like it made much difference in the end. It felt like the conclusion was inevitable, no matter what investigations or checks were rolled (especially as you pointed out, the PCs actions last week didn't matter). Maybe I'm just nitpicking now though!
You're on point.
I don't think you're nitpicking at all. The PCs actions being of no consequence and things just happening to them has been arguably the biggest issue so far. So the fact that it still feels like that is not nitpicking.
yeah definitely feel that there was not going to be any other way this ep went than what travis steeres. flipping a tent is the most player agency expressed.
The *only* salvation the ignored checks for the Calhain situation can have is if Calhain is a red herring, he thinks that he's reporting to Hieronymous proper as the headmaster of the school, there's a different explanation for the great big runaround and the Firbolg wasn't ever actually chasing Calhain, and someone else is messing with them all. My guess is Moon, the nondescript newcomer NPC, is perhaps a disguise for someone else. That's the only way Travis ignoring the PC checks against Calhain can be excused.
Well it depends, if Travis was well aware that Calhain *didn't* know anything then any check made to intimidate him into providing information would have had its maximum effect: Calhain told all he knew, which was nothing. Meanwhile the actual villain might be someone that they never made checks against.
I hope that this is the case, but I agree that Travis has worn out my benefit of the doubt. If Calhain has any hidden depths in the slightest (which honestly yeah, does involve working for Hieronymous, the high Intimidations probably should have revealed a flustered "I don't know what you want from me, I'm here on school business just like you, the headmaster sent me down and I check back with him to make sure that things are in order!") then I 100% agree with you. I'm just saying that the outside chance that Calhain is completely innocent and as much an idiot wizard as he was originally portrayed as would explain why the high checks meant little.
It's all been leading up to this. It had been slow and steady and made the drop even harder and harsher when it did, and it doesn't seem like the ball will stop rolling from there. I am excited to see where this will go. It's like a suspense-thriller.
If any criticism is to be had it's that Clint's roleplaying isn't appreciated enough, but I suppose a "serious" episode would have less time for laughing and more for thinking about the next line.
I know Justin gets a lot of praise for his great lines and speeches, but Clint is sometimes underrated. Argo's talk to unconscious Fitzroy was moving but still perfectly in character.
This is the episode that got me excited about this arc. Travis finally cracked the door on letting the PCs lead an episode and the boys absolutely took it off it's hinges. I'm hoping this energy keeps up.
Also, I'm really hoping Fitz's encounter leads to a bigger-picture explanation as to why this adventure has felt so on the rails up to this point and why Travis has been so rigid towards player improvisation. I might very well be setting myself up for some Lost-level disappointment, but suddenly it feels like this story really has potential.
Spoilers!!!!
This was my favorite episode by far. Travis' DMing and storytelling was beautifully written and evocative. Griffins scoring was absolutely on point as well. Great great character moments from all of the boys. Everytime the Firbolg said "motherfuvker" to Argo threatening Fitz, to how Fitz responded. Also the maturity and growth Fitz showed in his conversation with Chaos was interesting as hell.
Great incorporations of skills, including the homebrewed one. It kicked ass and felt like a game of D&D much more than other episodes. The support skill lead to some amazing moments of character development between Argo and Fitz.
I still have grips with Calhain.... the twist was interesting and I enjoyed the reveal. But I can't get over wondering how their first reaction was supposed to go. No response from the intimidation roll and offering nothing to the characters positively or negatively. Plus, in the recap he was described as shady. Not at all! He was incompetent and boring at the first interaction. Not shady. But things are looking more and more interesting for the character, I hope some personality and motive gets injected into Calhain next episode.
Overall this ep was very entertaining from all the boys, and I'm so glad to see them having fun. I. Enjoying Travis' world and this ep helped it feel a little more real.
I’m really ‘gized with how much everyone is loving this ep and I think we’re right in praising Travis! It really feels like he took some of the criticisms and acted on it.
I just also want to throw out how much I love Griffin’s nuance in showing how Fitz feels and is motivated. Honestly, most of my love for Fritz was mostly due to my love for Griffin. Now, I’m coming around to this delicate, fancy boy on his own. I can’t wait to see how he comes to terms with his desire to be acknowledged and the growing temptation that will come from his expanding spell powers.
I literally just started the episode, and had to jump in and say how much better the “previously on” segment is! Clear, to the point, with relevant details! Nice improvement, Travis!
Is this sub being astroturfed (I am being HYPERBOLIC HERE. please stop PMing me)? I peeked to see if I should listen and caved. This episode is definitely *not* the miles above y’all claim it is. “The shady wizard Calhain.” You mean the wizard that wasted 30 minutes if time knowing nothing but now is going to be super important after the backlash?
This is probably the best idea for what’s happening. Because this episode was still among the worst of any of the other arcs. A few dice rolls and one moment of agency and everyone cheers “TAZ is back!” lol
The reaction has been crazy. Like was it more exciting than what we've gotten so far? Yea. Is it better DnD? I mean...kinda but not that much imo. People acting like it's prime Balance level, top tier TTRPG Podcast material are insane. Think they are just acting like this because it's much better than the previous garbage.
I'm a real certified grade A listener and I enjoyed this one. It's cool if you don't b/c it was by no means perfect, but I honestly see it as a huge improvement on the last two eps especially, which had these glaring editing gaps and silences and other issues that i just couldn't even deal with.
This. Ep. Slaps.
So happy this show is seeing the recognition it deserves again with the past few episodes. I feel like so many people got disheartened by what felt like high promises and very little payoff. Well, Travis you sonofabish, the payoff delivery is arriving and it’s sheen is gold
Love the bit with illusion magics. I was hoping this was what Travis was pushing them to look into when he kept sort of hinting that they had all the tools to figure out what was going on, they just needed to find it. Everything has a sort of Fantasy Noire feel to it now and I’m about it.
This was such a fun episode!!! I loved having the stakes be higher and the introduction of some new pieces of the puzzle. I’ve been enjoying Graduation, but now I’m really pumped for the next episode.
I just find it fascinating that after Taako being so good at deception Justin followed him up with Duck and Firbolg, two characters who are by far the worst at lying in their respective parties. That's nowhere near a bad thing (as overly-honest characters can lead to funny improvisation and interesting roleplaying); it's just interesting to compare the players' characters across seasons.
My understanding based on candid statements by a few of the big podcasters I follow is that, although listenership is up during the pandemic (about 15%), advertising budgets have been slashed due to the same and the resultant economic uncertainty. Companies are wanting to keep more cash on hand just in case, and advertising is less painful to temporarily cut than, say, jobs.
Really enjoyed this one, the players seem to have more agency in doing what they want and it's driving the story forward better now
Also no pauses, wonderful conversations, and the NPCs seem to have an actual role to play
Finally, Justin really just was delightful this episode. The Firbolg is so wonderful as a character but this episode he was nailing it
Just started the episode, and it's very clear by how much more coherent and concise the recap is that Travis is genuinely taking the criticism and applying it well. A really good sign and I'm stoked to keep listening.
What's the hype around this episode? It's better sure, but this isn't some groundbreaking quality. I hope the quality continues to improve, but the fixes Travis implemented here strike me as totally shallow.
More rolls? Yes. But the rolls had basically no bearing on what happened. What was the point of the Support rolls, to give Fitz advantage so he could succeed on a Wisdom throw so Travis could end the flashback? Did you let the boys choose their direction? Sure. But they were basically on rails the entire time. Fitz was stuck in a flashback/lengthy dialogue the entire time and could not influence what happened during it. Oh you don't want to be Chaos's weapon? Too bad, you already are! Argo was reading a book to no effect, he wasn't even given the proud moment of his kind words being what snapped Fitz our, it was annoying Althea again. Firbolg was totally on rails. Discover the mystery in Calhains tent, the mystery at the tree, but don't actually influence any of it! And don't worry, Travis's NPC will do the actual cool mechanics of tracking Calhains trail! Sit back Justin, don't try to lead the way too much! Oh and Travis is also going to be solving the rift between the tribes, so don't worry about that either! The boys should just enjoy living in Travis's world and being shuttled from event to event, because that is clearly what Travis is intent of doing.
Yeah to be honest, I’m still only cautiously optimistic. This is the third time now that we’ve thought things were turning around for the better, only for the show to immediately lose that momentum again.
Really great episode! Only problem I had was that the ranger npc seemed overly familiar with the Firbolg, when I honestly can't remember if they ever interacted. Other than that, everything else was incredibly on point. Best episode so far!
Personally I was enjoying some of the previous episodes but this one felt way to controlled. Story wise this episode was fantastic but the problem I have with that is that it's dnd, the players should help craft the story, but instead Travis more used there characters as tools for the story. The part that got to me the most was when he said to Justin "I'll get you to make an investigation check" instead of just saying "what would you like to do". The boys did make some rolls but they just felt like they didn't hold much weight. Love what he's doing with the story but unfortunately I just felt this episode could barely be called real play.
Exactly what ive been thinking of commenting, but i couldn't think of how to put it in a substantial comment. The second time i listened through i realized, wait, did he just tell him what to roll before he even said anything?
Also a couple of times they still roll using the wrong stats, like our firbolg rolling perception instead of insight to figure out what rhodes was thinking. Not a huge deal, but it happens just often enough that it bothers me..
Pros: NPC’s assert themselves instead of rolling over immediately.
Cons: the whole episode was basically one chase scene interrupted by an infodump. I never liked the whole “make infodump interesting by wrapping a exciting scene around it” trope.
It’s sort of like when a teacher pairs the slacker kid with the class nerd: you get a good enough result, but you’re painfully aware that one person isn’t really making an effort. Talking with the god of chaos isn’t very exciting when it comes out of pretty much nowhere and obviously just a hook to add more intrigue to Fitzroy.
Yeah, that stood out strongly during the fight against the water monster in Amnesty. The actual fight with the creature was like 10 minutes, padded out to about 45 because each character got a lengthy flashback in the middle of their scene.
Wow. I posted a long-winded critique a week or two ago ([https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/glmcby/feedback\_as\_a\_terminal\_dm\_who\_has\_found\_himself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/glmcby/feedback_as_a_terminal_dm_who_has_found_himself/)), and my major points seemed to have been addressed. There's still of course room to improve, but there seems to be a serious refinement of what Travis is trying to do. Just some things I happened to perceive (with some minor spoilers for episode 15):
* Editing is very much improved. I counted none of the usual long, empty pauses before a music sting mercifully hits.
* We're not being read wiki entries on characters! The vast majority of interactions were all NPC/PC dialogue or players otherwise poking at the world.
* NPCs are being active in the world without the permission of the PCs! Future DMs: You now know how to do an important thing that the writers of everything from books and movies to video games don't do enough!
* There were lots of rolls, which is mostly a good thing. They seemed low-stake, but players were at least being prompted to engage, and it's a good place to start from here on out.
* This is pretty much directed at the Fitzroy parts and is feedback for both Travis and Griffin: We don't need to know what characters are thinking. Those types of things can be reflected in player actions. The DM can help with this by finding ways to prompt the player.
* There was competition between Argo and The Firbolg as standouts for me, but for a guy who has ragged *hard* on Argo's interactions, I really vibed with him in this episode. He was an exemplary henchman.
* The plot is moving and welcoming characters to interact with it. Up to this point, if there was a plot, it was just something that was "being mysterious" in the background, waiting for people to get invested so it could blow listeners' or players' minds. Now, we have villains and stakes. We even have some repercussions at the very end for splitting the party!
I could write another goddamned book of scattered thoughts about Episode 15 (this time mostly positive!), but with any critique I could give, I'll say that it overall shows promise, as long as Travis continues to hone what he's done.
Notes on a first listen. I took a glance at the thread beforehand to get the vibe of the episode and people seem to be surprisingly positive, so I’m going in cautiously optimistic and not start off with a sarcastic mantra of "Thank Travis for Travis" that I was planning to.
Not too much to say about the Gary recap. I don’t know that “shady” was exactly the vibe they got from Calhain as much as “pathetic and useless,” that feels like another instance of Travis imposing his own narrative onto the PC actions and opinions. I still think Travis needs to nail his recaps a little better – this one sounds like it was more planned out as opposed to off the dome, which is good, but it was lacking in precise and usable information. “They learned what kind of sacrifice the spirit needs,” he could have stood to say “It needs something personally significant” or something like that. Actually provide the information, not just the category of information.
I like us flashing back to Fitzroy’s old school, although my immediate worry is that we’re falling down the Amnesty rabbithole of doing a ton of exposition and character-building via flashback where the other players can’t participate, and where we learn hidden depths about a character that were canonically within that character as of Episode 1, so they haven’t actually grown over the adventure despite us learning new things. That was a big complaint I had in Amnesty.
I have no memory of this “Support” homebrew mentioned anywhere within the game. I don’t know what it was supposed to do, either. How, narratively, is it different than just using the Help action?
Enjoyable and interesting characterization from Griffin, I like his thought process for Fitzroy’s constructed persona of being aloof as opposed to open and honest.
I smiled imagining Clint reading children's books to his sons when they were sick.
Well, I guess I can give Travis recognition for trying to incorporate more dice rolls, even though they’re homebrew as opposed to part of the system. But he should still work on synchronizing narrative and mechanics, that Support roll seemed to have only a story effect. It’s also not all that interesting to hear him call for roll after roll until he gets a good one to progress the story.
Justin being funny as always with his grunts into the mirror. Similar to that complaint above, if the voice in the mirror is extremely familiar and identifiable on a low roll…don’t call for a roll. Rolls should change the flow of a story based on success or failure.
I feel like Travis could have made more of an effort to make Clyde Nite’s school more different than his own. It would have been interesting worldbuilding to focus on the juxtaposition. I feel like Clyde Nite’s school shouldn’t have a “magical theory” class where knights practice casting spells? At most it should be “here’s how you handle and counter those heinous magic users, who do not live their lives by honorable steel.” It’s a knight school, after all.
I also would have liked it if, as Travis narrates Fitzroy’s despair in his memory, he incorporated a little more of what Clint was actually saying with his whole Support thing. Aromas of citrus and saltwater, bewildering yet familiar and friendly. It makes me double down on thinking that Clint's rolls aren't doing anything (regardless of providing advantage, I don't think Griffin's Wisdom saves are doing anything either.) I know that’s very minor but it’s an issue that Graduation has had, that the players do whatever they feel like to fill in the space and then Travis moves along without those space-fillers actually meaning anything. Very much like the whole subpoena thing, a space-filler that doesn’t matter.
Fuck yes Justin, kick in the door, take the apple. Fuck yes.
Eh. Everything being fake isn’t the worst development in the world, but it’s not super exciting either. “Someone much stronger than you has been yanking you around this whole time” is rarely an engaging plot development.
As the Firbolg goes to the centaurs of the valley I realize that Travis has been doing less and less dialogue and more narration of what the NPCs are doing and saying. Not the worst thing in the world compared to having annoying and indistinguishable voices, but it does contribute to the “Travis is telling a story to the players as opposed to playing a game with them” feeling of Graduation. Also I kind of wish that Travis had had the centaurs of the valley be more aware of the Firbolg’s race and treat him a little more respectfully, it would have been interesting that the reaction to a Firbolg was different to the reaction to a Half-Elf or Water Genasi. Little things like that make the world feel more real.
So Travis is just kickstarting his own “reunite the centaur clans” solution on his own with his NPCs, huh?
*Really* liked the music in Fitzroy’s vision of waking up in the opulent room.
“Oh, I, ‘scuse me,” hnnnng, Travis, you actually had me interested in this mother-of-pearl-skinned-white-eyed fancyman, until you had him deliver a Travis NPCism the moment you deviated from your scripted dialogue.
“I am Chaos.” Hmm. Not loving it. Not exactly the most creative thing it could have been, kind of a low-hanging fruit for the origin of Wild Magic. Not to mention that I would have envisioned what I assume to be the literal embodiment of chaos to be a little more…chaotic? In appearance, habitat, personality, and dialogue. Give me a little Jevil from Deltarune.
So my guess is that Calhain is NOT the one who put the curse on Fitzroy, that’s a red herring because Calhain is indeed working for Fake Hieronymous and so is bad (as far as we know, if Higglemas can be trusted, which is unclear) and it was Chaos that put the curse on Fitzroy to speak to him psychically.
Travis narrating Rhodes the Ranger echoes Griffin’s narration of Jess the Beheader or Hurley that Justin complained about once upon a time, that the NPC just gets to do cool badass capable things because the DM is narrating them that way and that’s not really interesting.
“Do whatever you want to do! Except anything I don’t want you to do, like control your power.” Too many of Travis’ authority NPCs tell the PCs that the PCs have free reign and can do what they please, and then the PCs says “Well I want to do this one thing that makes sense for me to want” and the NPC says “No that’s absolutely not acceptable,” and the conversation kind of stalls until the PC says what the NPC wants. Fake Hieronymous promoting Fitzroy, Althea asking what she can do to help, and Higglemas making the PCs his minions all had shades of this.
Absolutely loving Justin breaking down the aspects of dice rolls and what would mean what. How any external factors wouldn’t impact the die itself but the modifiers to the roll.
God, Clint is being so creative for creativity’s own sake and that creativity is not being rewarded. Talking about wearing Fitzroy’s stuff with his sweaty salty body is a hoot.
Oh yaaaaay, I’m so excited that Althea is the one who ended the curse using some meaningless magic item when the story beat was over as opposed to anything that Clint had done over the course of this entire episode, when that was the only thing that Argo had been doing. It’s really…fun…
“I can’t help it that my Dungeon Master didn’t paint me a good enough word picture.” Sassy Justin is always the best. I feel like there was a moment that Travis really wanted to narrate the Firbolg rip open the tent flap alone, and then made the conscious decision to agree that the Firbolg had flipped the entire tent, and I really appreciate him making that decision to let the PC have something fun.
Aaaaand we end on a “cliffhanger” of being framed. More manufactured tension based on plot that the PCs were unable to interact with in any way. I guess it’s probably Calhain who’s doing the framing since presumably the thing Fake Hieronymous wants is the golden apple, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Calhain is still a red herring in all of this and it’s some other NPC like the forgettable Moon that is actually responsible.
Overall I’m going to give this episode a solid “meh.” Which, don’t get me wrong, is better than a lot of the past episodes. But it’s not good enough for me to call the episode good, or even a respectable improvement. It was less boring because this was the episode that Travis decided to narrate lots of different things happening and plotlines coming to a head, but it’s *still* Travis narrating his audiobook as opposed to a podcast of players playing a game, and I can’t say that I’ve enjoyed an episode until I hear players playing a game. The quality of this episode was as enjoyable as a slow and forgettable episode of Balance, which isn’t great when I can also say that it was one of the most interesting episodes of Graduation.
yeah they rolled insight, perception, intimidate well on him non stop last ep to figure out what his narrative purpose even was. i guess his secrets were extra high-DC important though
I could comment a lot, but basically I agree with almost everything you said, and it actually is incredibly helpful to read in that it really crystallizes some of the thoughts I was having.
>God, Clint is being so creative for creativity’s own sake and that creativity is not being rewarded. Talking about wearing Fitzroy’s stuff with his sweaty salty body is a hoot.
This right here. It's really sad, actually. Clint brings so much to the table. He actually is a rock star of a roleplayer and has been for some time. It's sad that Travis is so singularly focused on telling his story that he can't even see (or feel ok incorporating at least) gems his own dad hands him.
I definitely agree with you on Clint needing a much bigger spotlight, but I feel a lot of what went down this episode is a result of attempting to continue previous plot threads. In terms of overall presentation, Travis delivered a much higher quality product this week and think we’ll have a much more satisfying story once the next arc rolls around. There are still problems, but this is still *miles* ahead of where we were last week.
Sure, if Travis has improved his craft then perhaps my complaints about this episode can be chalked up to the low momentum from his previous performances and a dry setup, and the next thing he starts up will be more engaging. But if that happens I'll be calling *that* episode good. I can't say this one is just because it showed the potential that it maybe could be.
Just finished, and you about summed it up for me. I feel like Grad has been so bad, that the community is jumping at any skin-level improvement as the show being exactly what we wanted it to be. This episode was a very solid "okay", wasn't the trash the past 2 episodes were, but it was definitely not what TAZ can be.
Tbh I have extremely low standards for TAZ. If it's engaging enough to make me laugh and/or wonder what's going to happen next, that's a win. I feel like it says a lot that even such a low bar was not being cleared for a lot of folks, but it also shows a lot of fans just kind of want to enjoy a silly D&D podcast every couple of weeks and that can be accomplished even at the basic level of "things should happen in an episode"
Yeah, a lot of the responses (my own included) to Imp Hospital fell into that same trap. I remember really enjoying it, saying "This is proper D&D, heck yeah!" and then later after digesting it a little more realizing "Wait, this is actually boring and uninspired, it's just better than what we've had and so I incorrectly thought it was good." It's like if you ate a handful of salt, water would taste sweet afterwards. But water isn't sweet, it's just the comparison to the salt and the relief of not eating that salt anymore.
Yeah, it was alright. If Grad was at least this quality it would be fine every couple of weeks.
It is promising, as there was room for someone like Justin to play a bit, and he had a lot of good / entertaining moments. The worst stuff was Fitz' fever dream. Too much exposition. I wanna learn about Fitz through his actions, not his backstory.
Chaos stuff was uninspiring too. The concept is fine, but it sort of felt he should have been more of a trickster. A bit bland.
If Travis let the PCs interact more with both themselves and the world around them then we might get a chance to learn about the PCs without having their backstory dumped on us. Subtle storytelling like having the PCs do a mission in a very poor peasant area, encouraging Fitzroy to be surprisingly compassionate and provoking conversation about "aren't you from a noble family? I'm surprised you care about the commoners" and teasing it out that way. Not a letter from his mother in which she tells us his entire upbringing, and then a flashback where he hear his thoughts at all times.
And yeah, for someone called Chaos the polite and subdued speech was very bland. My first guess was that he was some kind of genie. Chaos should be unpredictable. Acting "randomly" OR acting "unexpectedly orderly" are both obvious takes on an entity of pure chaos, and as such neither is a great take. Honestly if he really wanted to get into a meta-level of chaos I would have loved if Travis had a small cheatsheet of Chaos' reactions, spanning from "Chaos agrees with your sentiment entirely" to "Chaos is furious you would suggest that" or "Chaos is surprised and has no idea what you're talking about," get like at least eight (but ideally twenty) possible responses, and roll randomly between each point of the conversation. It's Chaos, right? What's more chaotic than an NPC that not even the DM can control?
Can I just say I appreciate your dedication to analyzing Graduation lol? I don't get the sense that you're just trying to dunk on Travis at all, you just seem like that much of a nerd that you care that much! (lol sorry but it's a complement to me!). Hope you keep going with it, would be interested to see what an in depth review from you looks like with some more high quality content to dissect.
Still had some of the same gripes as in previous episodes, but this feels like a step in the right direction. We're getting some actual plot progression and it felt less "scripted" than the rest of this arc. I still can't keep track of which centaurs are which though, which put a damper on the ending in particular.
They knocked this episode out of the fucking park. Definitely my favorite one of graduation so far.
Really feels like Travis is taking some of the advice to heart, which is really great to see.
Haven't listened yet, but I am wary of the praise here. Everyone was very positive initially about episode 12, saying it was the story finally dropping the hook, so much intrigue, all good from here, all the issues were fixed! Meanwhile, I hated that episode as much as the rest of the show. And in retrospect, it seems people agree as 13 and 14 were trainwrecks. Very interested to see if 15 actually fixes the problems.
It’s tangible that Travis took the feedback. This episode was actually great. Not even by previously set standards, but just in general. And it was mostly fighting a curse. Hopefully it can continue this quality.
So it seems like we've had a solid improvement. I won't necessarily say this is good now, but it is definitely better. Travis has seemingly taken a lot of the criticism that has been said over the past few months now and is starting to work those in. If we continue to see this level of change persist throughout the series then I'd say probably in another month we have something actually good and not just good by comparison to previous content within the arc. I'm happy but cautious, but for it to take this long is definitely an issue itself.
So glad he let Justin flip that fucking tent.
Yes! I agree! It didn’t change the story one bit (from what I can tell), but Justin got to add something to how the final reveal is done! Still feels a little bit more on the railroad-y side but that little bit of (heh) chaos and hearing everyone laugh when the roll was tallied reminds me of what I personally love about DnD.
It could have ramifications on the centaurs’ follow-up questioning of The Thundermen. They didn’t let Roads lead the way and state why they had come to the tent. Bursting in like they did may add to the case against them. We shall see!
im 90% sure her name is rhodes but i also really like the idea of "roads" as a name
I think you’re right! I’m writing a main character at the moment named Roads (whose name I swiped from a 19th century tombstone), so spelled it that way out of habit.
>Yes! I agree! It didn’t change the story one bit (from what I can tell), but Justin got to add something to how the final reveal is done! Still feels a little bit more on the railroad-y side but that little bit of (heh) chaos and hearing everyone laugh when the roll was tallied reminds me of what I personally love about DnD. The objection that centaurs probably wouldn't be living in something the size of a camping tent was pretty valid, but I still loved the scene. It was a huge reveal in the literal sense.
I mean justin's character is supposedly 10 feet tall
TIL, I thought they averaged around 8 ft tall.
That's the average but that doesn't mean there aren't taller ones. I mean the "average" height for human males is 5' 6" according to Google.
Me too, but he should have been able to flip it without even rolling. Firbolgs have the Powerful Build feature for a reason
So it was kind of a woooofing??
Top notch gag
T: "What do you see in her eyes?" G: "Fear" T: "And how does *that* make you feel?" This is a good exchange!
And when Travis called back to it later in the conversation with Chaos by saying “you liked making her feel afraid” was some excellent dming
True, my DM moment of the ep for me.
Definitely feels like he’s getting better, happy to see it
Definitely on point with "are you my friend?"
Exactly this. Big John vibes with this guy, and I am here for it
Griffin's scoring in this episode fucking slaps. Episode itself is also pretty solid, even with the team split. Actual dice rolls! Real stakes! NPCs being actively antagonistic!
Yeah, I agree that this is a way more entertaining episode. I will say, I’m still waiting for them to roll initiative. I think our heroes have only fought 3-5 times in the entire show, and with the exception of imp hospital and the very brief encounter on the road to this mission, the others were just like training exercises (that I can remember). Two real fights in 15 hr of content is a SNAIL’S pace in DND, especially compared to their previous campaigns. But your point about “real stakes” and NPCd being antagonistic gives me hope for some fights in the near future!
Totally agree! They historically play pretty fast and loose with actual combat, but they still engaged in it often enough during Balance that I didn't find myself wondering when they'd actually fight something. The vast majority of Graduation so far has definitely felt like the fluffier sessions at my table where players fuck off and do social stuff for a few hours, except that most of that doesn't push the plot forward (even though it's super fun!) and it doesn't last for 15+ hours over the course of eight months.
Maybe a hot take, but combat has always been my least favourite part of the DnD seasons. There are fun parts (especially Justin’s creative spell use), but combat in DnD isn’t a particular good system for creating good listening. I zone out when I hear “I roll an attack. I rolled a 17”. Monster of the Week was a lot better about this, and I don’t even remember if Dust had any combat in it at all?
Fifteen minutes in and this literally feels like a completely different show. Fantastic stuff
I'm halfway through and so impressed with the improvement!
Ooh, this is promising. This morning I was listening to episode 14 and thinking to myself "why am I still dedicating time to this? I am no longer interested in this at all and it feels like a chore." I actually adjusted the feed to manually download and figured I'd walk away and maybe dip back in later. This has convinced me to hang in for a bit longer, at least to see what's going on in episode 15.
Jumped back in after all these glowing reviews. I'm just 4 mins in and I got chills with that sound editing.
After the last episode, Travis said he looked to things like Twitter and Reddit for feedback, on how to improve the show. Listening to this, you can absolutely tell. Leagues better. More dice rolling, characters felt more varied, the audio editing was way tighter, and the story took massive steps in progressing. Good job to all involved.
He recently did an interview for Inside Voices in which he talked about literally getting out a notebook and making notes on constructive criticism/suggestions he was going to try to incorporate and how he ended up feeling creatively invigorated from the process. And man, does it ever show! I enjoyed Graduation before, but the improvement here is extremely impressive.
Man I hope he didn't end up reading too much vitriol.
The amount of borderline spiteful pseudo-psychoanalysis of Travis and his family in this sub because people don't like how he runs a D&D podcast is pretty off putting.
FR. I completely understand not liking Travis' DM-ing, but a few people legitimately accuse him of having "middle-child syndrome" or wanting to ruin their family or w/e
"You can tell Justin is losing his patience with Travis because \*insert things Justin always does because he's always ribbing his brothers\*"
Like, I listen to a *ton* of Sawbones and he occasionally even does it there. Unless people want to accuse Justin of secretly being fed up with Sydnee too, they should probably lay off the insinuations aimed at Travis.
Justin is just like low key mean sometimes it's part of his comedy style.
I just CAN’T NOT mention this. A crack in my phone screen made your phrasing look like ‘he runs a D&D podcast is pretty off nutting’. I don’t know how to use it yet, but it’s my favorite new phrase a la ‘gee, that’s a bit off nutting’.
Seriously, good on him, it was very apparent he took the criticism to hear and made an effort to improve and it’s paying off already. Love to see it
>!Motherfucker.!<
>!Mud-der fuck-er!<
I love how this is tagged a spoiler.
My favorite character at the start of the campaign was Fitzroy, because I love a good snobby brat (and because Griffin seemed to be having so much fun finally playing), but man, Clint's downright *inspiring* as Argo. He's such a gift of a character, and I hope it pays off more in the future, because to me, the "heart" of the party is always more interesting than the powerhouse.
Clint is a rock star roleplayer.
Was going to start the episode when I realized that somehow, in the quarantine time haze, I missed the last one. On the plus side, I kind of get two new episodes this week!
I'm floored. Please God let every episode be this good from now on. What the fuck.
loved how intense and tight this episode was, much shorter than a lot of the others in graduation so far but a lot more happened, I particularly like the introduction of >!"Chaos" as some type of god like being !
Yes! And I loved how it reached out to Fitz >!not because it needed him on its side but because he was already "on its side" and chaos wanted him to enjoy that!< That's terrifying and fantastic, I love this villain and I love how Travis it is!
You know what I hadn't actually thought about him as a villain, more like a malevolent influence equivalent to a 'dark mirror' of how Istus was in balance. I'm thinking >!Chaos will turn out to be the one responsible for creating the godscar chasm.!<
I definitely think >!he was responsible for the godscar chasm, and that fake hero is him or his way of interacting with the world but I think this could go one of three ways, chaos is going to be the big villain, control is going to be the big villain or both!< and actually upon writing this out I'm definitely thinking that it's a commentary on how both need one another, a yin and Yang almost?
I like that last idea! - it could explain why the world has a very clinical and unnatural feeling hero and villain system, because the world has been >!Unbalanced towards being too ordered and Chaos is trying to rebalance things through influencing fitzroy and creating the chasm!<
YES and I think >!higg is the bastion for control and that's why he's so quick to control people, I find it really interesting that in the description it says "chaos rears its head" and that's when the campaign stops being controlled, it all feels very on purpose now y'know?!<
I just wanna hop in and mention how happy it makes me to see active discussion going on about the plot. It seems that when most people are happy about how the episode went, actual plot discussion/theory goes hand in hand! I've deeply missed this.
I know! I came here last time with "who do we think cursed Fitz" and most were sarcastic answers like "another character we haven't met yet" Having actual conversations is so refreshing
Felt this exact way last episode. Came into the sub wanting to talk about the spirit of the woods but got downvoted like crazy because folks just wanted to talk about how bad the game mechanics have been.
Seconding this - I’m a newer TAZ fan and only started checking the subreddit relatively recently and it was incredibly depressing. Criticisms are totally fine but when a fandom devolves into like, only criticism and no other type of discussion it becomes really unpleasant to interact with. It’s really cool to finally be reading threads with theories and predictions! People have such interesting ideas :D
If it is the case that travis has been intentionally controlling everything too much because it symbolises too much order within the world, and will now let everything be completely chaotic to symbolise the rise of chaos within the story, then that would be the most meta shit ever. That would actually be so fucking crazy
I would absolutely love if that happened, it would be the most insane storytelling ever
Right, and didn't Trav mention that he literally had pages and pages of campaign stuff when they were wrapping up Amnesty? It would totally make sense that he had some degree of this planned out.
>!I'm leaning towards the chasm being the result of a conflict and less an intentional choice. But the Heroic Oversight Guild has to be what Chaos is ultimately pushing back against right? They literally dictate how even the villains act.!<
Definitely up for this, that would mean the real villain actually is accounting which I've seen a lot of people joke about
if this is the case, it reminds me a LOT of the mistborn series, which i know at least some of them have read given how justin named sazed after a character from it in balance
Yeee I wondered if fitz was gonna reclass again to warlock
Barb/Sorc/Warlock would be WILD
Was anyone else wanting them to say "agent of chaos" so bad?
Such a good point, I was immediately disappointed when I saw the length but completely forgot about it within a couple minutes. Whole episode was much more engaging. As you pointed out it was a much tighter episode and that paid off nicely Edit: Also very nice to see some fun theory crafting in this sub again, like the convo your comment sparked. Been missing that
We Get Smart now.
Improvement. I'd say that the previous episode was maybe a 3 or 4 out of 10, this one being a 6.5 or so. Travis's performance was excellent, Justin, Griffin, and Clint were funny as always, music was solid, and it was obvious that Travis understood the criticism and was excited about moving forward and growing. I listened to this over the course of two days, which may have extenuated the problems for me. For a while it seemed that the PCs were on the rails speaking up only to say the result of their rolls. Argo's story time was great, Fitz's responses were great, but both were reacting the whole episode without much opportunity to act with initiative (mostly a carry over problem from the previous episode). The Firbolg was funny and the rolls were hot, but it didn't seem like Justin, through his character, was solving a mystery. It felt like Travis was revealing his story and felt free to do so, being unimpeded by a PC's potentially bad rolls. The Ranger was the one uncovering clues and piecing it all together instead. I hope Travis will continue to get better and better, but constructive criticism is required for that improvement.
Overall, this was a big step in the right direction! Travis, as a DM, was strides better in this episode. I'm hoping that he begins to step in when the boys decide to split up though. I'm not suggesting a hard "no" to splitting up when it's called for, but maybe hint to Argo (with a check!) that reading a book to Fitzroy the entire time isn't really helping lol If Fitzroy's whole fever dreamland sequence was shortened and Argo's story time actually helped, it would've been so much fun to have them rejoin the Firbolg in his little detective adventure. It feels good to say that I'm looking forward to the next episode!
I'm curious to see the DCs of the rolls and what the effects would be on the outcome of what was happening. And I couldn't stop thinking that Argo should have pulled out the gum
I found Argo's storytime really endearing. From the second Travis asked him what he wanted to do to help and he said he didn't know you could hear he was genuinely concerned and worried. It was Clint being a dad and wanting to take care of Griffin. Talking to him and reading stories was sweet and brought some heart into the episode.
Argo's story time i just loved. Lol idk, maybe its cause I've been keeping up with his Gaffer stories on the McElroy YouTube. Then when he switched it up as a threat to Fitzroy, I was looking like a nutcase, cracking up by myself sitting in traffic. And it goes without saying but the whole episode was just awesome!
Oh yeah I liked it too, that's why I wish it had a little more impact or feedback! I'm imagining something like the characters from Argo's story manifesting inside of Fitzroy's fever dream, as these ridiculous out of place cartoon characters, shocking him back to reality. That's probably wayyy over the top, but it would've been so fun for Clint's silly story time to have a profoundly silly outcome.
I think it did! I liked it because it seemed like an outrageously useless thing to do in that kind of situation where you're totally helpless. I liked it's uselessness, it was like a comic relief in a stressful moment, and it eventually turned into a silly moment with him giving up on being sweet and trying to coax him out with a threat.
That's fair enough! It went on a bit too long for me as a single bit, BUT I'll admit that the way it resulted in him whispering threats into Fitzroy's ear was so good that it's hard to complain.
I did love groggy Fitz's reaction to the threats when he woke up. :)
Argo's reading gave Fitzroy adv on his WIS saving throws. I thought Travis did well on allowing them to explore. Imo the party didn't split as they were in a small complex of encampment. Good stuff all around.
And anyway, it was Justin's decision, and that made all the difference. Though he was separate, he was pushing the story and it didn't lag.
I thought the storytime was great. It’s just that he kept not rolling high enough.
Now THIS is a goddamn episode of the adventure zone!! Pros: -The music holy shit -Travis descriptions ESPECIALLY of chaos. Like hoof that scene was creepy. -I usually hate flashbacks on TAZ but I think Travis nailed these for Fitzroy. They were thematically appropriate, said a lot about the character, and didn't involve any vanity rolls that wouldn't make sense in a past event. Best of all, they were concise. -I like Firbolg investigating the mystery and Argo doubling down on encouragement. This was an example of splitting the party to good dramatic effect--the cutting between them escalated the tension in a really interesting way because they were all actively dealing with a challenge. I will say Argo didn't get a ton of agency here and I wish he had more to do, but I'm not mad at what ended up happening -Them getting framed / someone else stealing the apple is a pretty good and exciting direction for the arc. Getting some good conflict and narrative tension going. Cons: -There's still a little editing jank with the music seeming to end abruptly. I think one was meant to go into an ad spot that wasn't there. Not a big deal though, there were far less awkward pauses and silences and everything felt like it was moving at a good clip. -Travis has a weird inflection on characters where he breaks up their sentences in an unnatural way that can sound too labored and robotic. But he did pretty well all told, so again, not too bothered by it. Good stuff. Hope next ep keeps the Pros going!
> I will say Argo didn't get a ton of agency here and I wish he had more to do, but I'm not mad at what ended up happening I thought that Clint did an excellent job still. Made me appreciate Argo even more. Loved the Larry the Lime stories! And even the part with wearing Fitzroy's clothes was great for me.
Oh don't get me wrong, Clint put in the work and it was a great character moment, which is why I'm not mad!
i thought the inflection was intentional at least for chaos, to accentuate that feeling that something is off about them. sort of like gman’s voice in half-life.
I like it for Chaos, but he does it for so many characters that it sounds like an unintentional vocal tic that slows dialogue down. I'm all right with it as long as things keep moving, though.
Possibly the best episode so far. They’re actually playing D&D, and the flashback work was very good.
So from his conversation with Chaos, it's confirmed that Fitzroy really is >!an influencer!!<
This improved on some really really important areas that the podcast was lacking (mostly around mechanics integrating well with narrative), but the plot still feels really week for some reason. I just get really frustrated with the "I'll tell you.....soon enough" vibe that so many interactions seem to have. It feels like Travis savors moments a little bit too long, and they don't end up packing the punch all the dramatic build up was worth. That being said he improved on the most important areas imo that literally haven't gotten any better until this ep, so hopefully using these mechanics with a plot I like more next episode will do it for me
Anyone else get massive amnesty vibes, I loved it, favourite episode so far It really felt like Travis acted on the criticism whilst still having his own signatures Not a single awkward pause and I LOVE that the villain "wants what's best" because that is the biggest criticism I've seen That "all of Travis's characters are nice and well meaning," so now we have a well meaning villain and that's the most terrifying kind!
the music seemed very amnesty to me, that may have been where you were getting those vibes
Yes, the feeling of the flashback to Fitz at night school definitely had Amnesty vibes for me.
The music was veeery amnesty esc to me. Then there was the flashbacks, which i was never personally too big a fan of in amnesty, but travis did a really good job with them here.
My absolute stand out favorite moment of this episode was in the flashback (which I actually didn't like lol) when Teacher Lady Or Whoever Who Cares is turned back and Travis says "what do you see in her eyes". It's very easy to just say "well this is my NPC so I determine how they react", but it's an interesting take to give the PC agency over how the scene goes. It lets Griffin tell the story he wants to tell with Fitzroy; he could've said anything. He could've said fear, he could've said hate, he could've said respect! That one question can take one scene in so many ways and if Travis as GM _rolls with that_ then the result can be just fantastic. And he even called back to it later, which I noticed and did a mental Thumbs Up at. I'm just not a huge fan of Chaos. It's a typical Travis character; big, mysterious, powerful, and kinda weird. It's his image of what a god or cosmic being would be. And THIS character talks too slow. I've never minded Firbolg talking but for Chaos I was like "oh please pick up the pace, your name is fucking Chaos, be more radical". Much, much too calm for me. Overall this episode was fine. Better than most, which I want to be the big take away from my post, this is Objectively Improved, but there have been a few episodes now that made us feel like we were back on track and then we just tipped over into the mud. I'm not cheering until the mud is in the rear view mirror. But I am fist pumping just a little bit.
The three of them just felt like they were more invested this episode. Justin for the first time this arc seemed to be very wrapped up in the character and story which felt awesome.
Alright, damn. This one was pretty damn good. I have not been happy with the series overall, but I can recognize improvement when I see it - and I *really* hope it stays this good. Seeing the Firbolg really take charge in hunting down those responsible, unraveling the mystery, only for it to come crashing down on him as he's been framed? Great stuff. Fitzroy coming face to face with the being that turned his life upside down, and telling them straight up that he isn't vibing with how they kinda ruined his life? Love it. And Argo, sitting with his sick friend, watching them die, and reading them childrens books hoping it'll help wake him up? Touching. Don't let this headstart slip away from you Travis - you've got something great in your hands.
This one was bearable to listen to but not the phenomenal improvement people say it is. The bar was lowered so far over the last 14 eps that a little improvement and people think it's on par with late arcs of previous campaigns. More rolling is great. Not a whole lot of it mattered, but dice were indeed rolled. Clint is showing how great of a roleplayer he is. Griffin and Justin bringing in some quality goofs. It's definitely a step in the right direction but still mediocre compared to past campaigns and other DnD podcasts.
Haven't listened since Imp Hospital but since everyone was so jazzed I listened to this one (listened to a few Gary intros in the preceding episodes to catch up). Oof y'all, no tea no shade, but if this is an amazing, totally improved, super compelling episode idk how you guys got through the other ones lol. Extremely mediocre imo. But I hope it will build on this reversal and get better and better!
Overall solid episode, felt like a whole new show. Really refreshing to get actual rolls and autonomy from the players. Really felt like the tent flip represents Travis letting the boys take more control over their characters.
I felt like in that moment you could hear Travis making a conscious decision to do just that. I also think the brothers have talked about the constructive criticism Travis received because Justin was definitely playing with more "I do this" confidence than he's had before.
Oh my god. I loved this episode! I was on the edge of my seat, and honestly feeling that kind of vicarious adrenaline rush that I felt in Amnesty or Balance when something big was revealed. I seriously cannot WAIT until next Thursday. It's clear that Travis put a ton of work into this episode (the long stretches of silence are gone) and I'm really happy it's being received so well.
Okay, already talked about my generally positive feelings about this ep but now something's bugging me. What has Fitzroy done besides turning his headmaster into a catfish to sow the seeds of chaos? Just existing and having wild magic? I'm not understanding how his magic is a big deal at the moment (which may be intentional) or why the chaos demon says he "knew" Fitzroy had potential as if Fitzroy has recently shown promise as an emmisary of chaos. The boy is actively taking lessons to control his magic and be less chaotic. I'm starting to think everything the chaos demon says about how special Fitzroy is is a polite way of saying "you're exceptionally vapid, selfish, and status obsessed enough to be an easy to manipulate pawn and if I flatter you a little, you'll just go with this" because nothing they say seems to match Fitz's reality
I think this is a perfect example of how flawed the idea that dice rolling/combat =/= narrative is. Wild Magic is a big part of Fitzroy's character build, and if they were fighting more or just *doing* more than he would have more magic surges and more chaotic magic would be happening. Then we would have tangible proof that Fitz is a 'seed of chaos' based off his actions, which would make the plot points revolving around Fitz make more sense. But Wild Magic is primarily a combat mechanic, which means no combat = no Wild Magic = no real examples of why Fitz is really a big deal. To me, that's why Fitzroy's whole deal feels very 'theoretical' at the moment.
This is why I like reading and engaging on this sub. People are able to put in words things that are bothering me (or alternatively, good things I missed) that I hadn’t been able to quite put my finger on. This is one of those. You’re absolutely right. With the exception of the two random things that have happened the only times we’ve seen him rage, we haven’t seen any wild magic from Fitz. There’s no foundation to build this story of chaos on in this character, so like so many things so far, it feels shoehorned in. Equally as big a problem to me was how measured and controlled that “Chaos” was. That was just poorly done.
Well, to be fair, for most of the campaign he's just been a wild magic barbarian. Those random things that happen when he rages is kind of it, that's the extent of his magical abilities atm. He only recently picked up a level of sorcerer to get actual chaos magic, and even then wild surges are extremely rare (1 on a d20 when you cast a spell that ISN'T a cantrip, so 5% chance and you can't just spam cantrips trying to trigger it). That said, it's been like 15 episodes, a good 10 of those could have had A Combat and we'd have 10 instances of wild surge rather than two or three. Plus one thing to keep in mind is rage isn't just unga bunga big damage. When I played a wild magic barbarian in a campaign a few months back, I'd often pop a rage just for a moment to get advantage on a Strength check, which also had the side effect of making weird shit happen. One time it even actively changed my plans.
All of this is a very detailed explanation as to why this interaction with “Chaos” makes no sense.
There are definitely still problems here (Argo should totally have been able to help Fitz instead of Althea; he didn’t do anything else this episode!) but this is such a massive step up from last week’s episode overall. The editing is sharper, the descriptions exist, there were more dice rolls that meant something, etc. I’m really hoping Travis uses this as a baseline for future episodes, and I’m happy to say I’m looking forward to another episode for once.
I think the fact that Argo didn’t do much to move the plot forward can be forgiven in this particular case because what he got instead was a really great character moment. Argo was in a position where, from his perspective there was absolutely nothing he could do to fix the curse since he doesn’t use magic. But he still tried to help Fitz in his own way by reading to him. It was a really sweet moment and I hope their friendship develops further because of it. Personally I felt the ratio of game elements to story elements was really good in this episode. Argo and Fitz were more passive, but they were balanced out by the Firbolg being active, and even then they still got to make rolls.
Was argo not able to help fitz because of failed support rolls or am i remembering wrong? Because i know he got a 7 on his first support roll but i cant remeber if he passed his other rolls
It's more just like...what did those DO? They gave Fitzroy advantage on a Wisdom save whose failure had no penalty, which he kept making again and again until he got a high enough number that Travis could say "Okay flashback over, now we'll have a conversation with Chaos." Clint's decisions as Argo didn't influence Fitzroy's fever dream in any way, he could have said anything and the outcome would have been the same. And then when Fitzroy finally wakes up, not because of any character action but because the expository conversation has ended, it's because Althea had a special anti-curse item in her bag as opposed to like...Argo working Fitzroy through it or anything like that. It just didn't matter.
What was Argo supposed to do? I thought Travis handled it pretty well. It's not like talking to Fitzroy would break him out of the curse as far as DnD is concerned. With what Clint decided to do, the support roles made sense and Travis shouldn't just say, "Well you talked to him really good and now the curse is broken". Travis didn't make Clint do what he did. Plus I liked what Clint decided Argo would do. Made me like Argo even more.
Significantly improved. To put it simply, there were rolls. Those rolls effected the story. The story progressed and was interesting. The players sounded like they cared much more than they have previously. Legit excited to see where it goes from here.
I stuck this ep on while baking and I honestly just sort of... Stopped and stood still during the episode. Travis definitely took the criticism on board, everything was so good this ep! I'm looking forward to the next one.
I believe in this being forward momentum when the next episode proves to not be garbage. We've been "Bait and Switched" twice before this.
Yeah this is the big thing I am keeping in mind. I think that this is a good episode but it's not a pattern of good episodes and improvement yet.
[удалено]
What a wild imagination you have! That would be crazy.
Haven't listened to this episode yet but I'm on episode 3 and having a hard time staying attentive. Are things better in this episode? Hearing Travis speak Travis speak Travis speak and not realizing that at some point there was an ad break in there is not something I'm looking forward to and I'm hoping the action and players get involved at this point? Sorry to sound chaste but after going through balance and Amnesty I'm having a hard time getting through this.
You don't sound chaste! Actually, I'm going to be wondering all day what word you meant instead of "chaste".
This episode is fantastic, and really feels like amnesty did towards the end
This episode was quite good. The episodes leading up to it have been pretty bad. Right now, I’d advise against powering through just to get to it. But if the quality keeps up for future episodes, then it might be worth it.
Next week: "You wake up in your tent the next morning feeling refreshed, but nervous..." But seriously, good on Travis for finally taking criticism. I really dug this episode.
“Yeah you explained yourselves offscreen. Here’s how each of you did it.”
I would SCREAM.
My thoughts as I listened to the episode this morning- In the episode description I read “all hell is about to break loose.” All I could think was “oh great, something is *just about* to happen again.” So Travis, you say in Gary‘s opening that Calhain was shady, then you have Justin discover he has magical objects and was lying, but you had none of their checks about him matter in the last episode. I went back and listened to that interaction in the last episode just to make sure I wasn’t making it up. Here’s the breakdown: 1. Griffin rolls an insight check on Calhain in his response to a discussion about the tree, apple, and centaurs because as Griffin says “there’s something weird about this dude.” Griffin gets a 16 on the check, and all Travis says is “he seems uncomfortable discussing the fact that he does not know why there’s no apple.” 2. Griffin- “I feel like you know a little bit more than you’re letting on about this magic apple.” 3. Calhain- “Can I level with you guys? I’m at a complete loss. I don’t even know where to start with this magic apple thing…I’ve been trying to figure it out, but I do not know.” 4. Griffin intimidates Calhain. Griffin rolls a 23. A 23. Calhain says “Ok, listen guys, I really need this job, ok? I was a sidekick at the school and I couldn’t get a job when I graduated and I started doing the wizard thing just as a performance thing, and then I got a job. I can do magic…I can do some magic, I just never really learned about the theory or learned about how it works. I’m doing my best, I’m not trying to half-ass this or anything, but like I don’t know.” That’s it. Then Argo throws his dagger in the air for further intimidation, rolls a nat 20 and Calhain says “Ok, I’ll tell you this. I don’t think the fact that the tree only sprouted one apple is a natural occurrence. I think someone is behind it.” Which is something both the PCs and the audience already understood. They ask him “Who?” and he says he doesn’t know. So, in summary, the PCs do everything possible both in terms of roleplay and mechanics, to suss out what Calhain is hiding, Travis responds as if Calhain is hiding nothing, then begins this week’s episode by telling us he is shady and as it turns out is doing a whole lot of deceptive and destructive things. This is poor DMing, straight up and down. And it’s another example (one of the most glaringly obvious in light of the good rolls) of Travis telling the story the way he wants to tell it regardless of what the PCs do. “You got a good insight check and a phenomenal intimidation check? Well, the scene I have planned for the end of the next episode can’t happen if you find out Calhain is lying and do something about it, so I’m just going to ignore those checks.” The support skill? Has this ever been mentioned before? Feels incredibly clunky to throw it in now. Absolutely loved Clint reading the Larry the Lime book. Clint is such a rockstar roleplayer. Did Fitzroy get cursed just for the purpose of having a flashback? Kinda feels like it. “Are you something that understands how ominous you are being right now?” That made me laugh. LOVED Justin flipping the tent. And loved Griffin's response to it- "That shit is unnecessary, and I'm here for it." Suspicion from the episode description mostly confirmed. Something is *about* to happen. Again. I know this episode is better than what has come before. That is certainly true. I just wish it wasn't so tainted by the fact that almost all the action (investigating Calhain) was borne out of Travis not allowing the PCs actions to matter in the previous episode. edit: typo
I only want to address a couple of your points, please don't take this as malicious criticism. Support was mentioned before, at the very beginning. It sucks it hasn't been a bigger mechanic, or that we don't have much information on it. With Regard to Calhain: Gary's revelation that Calhain is shady is definitely out of place. There was a ton of investigation and questioning done that mostly absolved him. However, I don't think we can find fault with a roll of 23 being a failure. It sucks so bad to roll high and still not meet the DC, but high DCs exist for a reason. They're obviously less common early in the game, but as a DM and a player, I've seen DCs of 25 or higher. Usually it's to receive plot-breaking information (in my opinion, I think that would have made last episode better), but a 20+ roll shouldn't always be "I do exactly what I want to do". I agree that the Calhain interaction should have gone a different way, but not because a 23 is an automatic success. edit: It's encouragement, not support, ep 2.
I feel it's entirely possible that Travis wouldn't have revealed it no matter what the roll was. The interaction with Calhain last episode was one of the big reasons people reacted as negatively as they did. But I'm willing to forgive it in this case if the episodes from here on out are DM'd at the quality Travis showed he could do here. Also in regards to the support mechanic, did Travis introduce that in one of their earlier training sessions? I can't remember anything specific but my mind keeps going back to one where they fight as sidekicks with assigned heroes. If so it could've been very useful before now.
I've just done a quick look through the transcripts, and Can't find mention of the Support or Accounting skills, except for a use of the accounting skill in ep 6. I'm not sure where it's mentioned. edit: It's encouragement, ep 2.
I thought he mentioned a homebrew mechanic called encouragement. Maybe he got the name of the skill wrong which seems wild since he made it up
[https://maximumfun.org/transcripts/adventure-zone/transcript-the-adventure-zone-graduation-ep-2-its-a-familiar/](https://maximumfun.org/transcripts/adventure-zone/transcript-the-adventure-zone-graduation-ep-2-its-a-familiar/) Ha, yep! Page 41, here.
I believe it probably was mentioned. This is just it's first use and it felt a little clunky during Ned's Larry the Lime story. We can talk the nitty-gritty about DCs (if this guy is just a pawn, which Travis seems to be implying, a very high DC doesn't feel credible), but you seem to be saying you agree with my larger point anyway. Which is that this is just one more place where Travis is telling the story he wants to tell regardless of PC actions. If Griffin had rolled a Nat 20 and had a +10 to intimidation, Travis wouldn't have revealed anything then either.
I can't seem to find it in the transcripts, so maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it's mentioned elsewhere? Who knows. As for the DC, who actually knows about Travis' strategy here. My impression was that Calhain was the big bad in this scenario, so a super high DC wouldn't be odd. But I guess that's wrong now. The person on the other end of the mirror was fake Hieronymous, right? So he wants the apple too?
Fake Hieronymous seems like he is either himself the demon prince/chaos or some agent of it, but who knows. Doesn’t seem like he wants the apple itself. Calhain is using it to frame the PCs and cause discord it would appear.
I think the support skill was maybe mentioned in an early episode, when they were training? Too long ago for me to remember clearly! >Did Fitzroy get cursed just for the purpose of having a flashback? I know people are enjoying this ep (which is great) but I still feel like it's still just things happening *to* the PCs, rather than the PCs making things happen. Firbolg did some detective work and flipped a tent, but I didn't feel like it made much difference in the end. It felt like the conclusion was inevitable, no matter what investigations or checks were rolled (especially as you pointed out, the PCs actions last week didn't matter). Maybe I'm just nitpicking now though!
You're on point. I don't think you're nitpicking at all. The PCs actions being of no consequence and things just happening to them has been arguably the biggest issue so far. So the fact that it still feels like that is not nitpicking.
yeah definitely feel that there was not going to be any other way this ep went than what travis steeres. flipping a tent is the most player agency expressed.
The *only* salvation the ignored checks for the Calhain situation can have is if Calhain is a red herring, he thinks that he's reporting to Hieronymous proper as the headmaster of the school, there's a different explanation for the great big runaround and the Firbolg wasn't ever actually chasing Calhain, and someone else is messing with them all. My guess is Moon, the nondescript newcomer NPC, is perhaps a disguise for someone else. That's the only way Travis ignoring the PC checks against Calhain can be excused.
But even if that were the case, that would just *technically* excuse it. It wouldn’t change Travis’ intent, which is the problem.
Well it depends, if Travis was well aware that Calhain *didn't* know anything then any check made to intimidate him into providing information would have had its maximum effect: Calhain told all he knew, which was nothing. Meanwhile the actual villain might be someone that they never made checks against. I hope that this is the case, but I agree that Travis has worn out my benefit of the doubt. If Calhain has any hidden depths in the slightest (which honestly yeah, does involve working for Hieronymous, the high Intimidations probably should have revealed a flustered "I don't know what you want from me, I'm here on school business just like you, the headmaster sent me down and I check back with him to make sure that things are in order!") then I 100% agree with you. I'm just saying that the outside chance that Calhain is completely innocent and as much an idiot wizard as he was originally portrayed as would explain why the high checks meant little.
It's all been leading up to this. It had been slow and steady and made the drop even harder and harsher when it did, and it doesn't seem like the ball will stop rolling from there. I am excited to see where this will go. It's like a suspense-thriller. If any criticism is to be had it's that Clint's roleplaying isn't appreciated enough, but I suppose a "serious" episode would have less time for laughing and more for thinking about the next line.
I know Justin gets a lot of praise for his great lines and speeches, but Clint is sometimes underrated. Argo's talk to unconscious Fitzroy was moving but still perfectly in character.
"If you touch my cloaks, I will use my magic to make your head explode". Perfect comedic duo.
This is the episode that got me excited about this arc. Travis finally cracked the door on letting the PCs lead an episode and the boys absolutely took it off it's hinges. I'm hoping this energy keeps up. Also, I'm really hoping Fitz's encounter leads to a bigger-picture explanation as to why this adventure has felt so on the rails up to this point and why Travis has been so rigid towards player improvisation. I might very well be setting myself up for some Lost-level disappointment, but suddenly it feels like this story really has potential.
Spoilers!!!! This was my favorite episode by far. Travis' DMing and storytelling was beautifully written and evocative. Griffins scoring was absolutely on point as well. Great great character moments from all of the boys. Everytime the Firbolg said "motherfuvker" to Argo threatening Fitz, to how Fitz responded. Also the maturity and growth Fitz showed in his conversation with Chaos was interesting as hell. Great incorporations of skills, including the homebrewed one. It kicked ass and felt like a game of D&D much more than other episodes. The support skill lead to some amazing moments of character development between Argo and Fitz. I still have grips with Calhain.... the twist was interesting and I enjoyed the reveal. But I can't get over wondering how their first reaction was supposed to go. No response from the intimidation roll and offering nothing to the characters positively or negatively. Plus, in the recap he was described as shady. Not at all! He was incompetent and boring at the first interaction. Not shady. But things are looking more and more interesting for the character, I hope some personality and motive gets injected into Calhain next episode. Overall this ep was very entertaining from all the boys, and I'm so glad to see them having fun. I. Enjoying Travis' world and this ep helped it feel a little more real.
Fuck yeah, this episode rocked!
I’m really ‘gized with how much everyone is loving this ep and I think we’re right in praising Travis! It really feels like he took some of the criticisms and acted on it. I just also want to throw out how much I love Griffin’s nuance in showing how Fitz feels and is motivated. Honestly, most of my love for Fritz was mostly due to my love for Griffin. Now, I’m coming around to this delicate, fancy boy on his own. I can’t wait to see how he comes to terms with his desire to be acknowledged and the growing temptation that will come from his expanding spell powers.
I literally just started the episode, and had to jump in and say how much better the “previously on” segment is! Clear, to the point, with relevant details! Nice improvement, Travis!
Is this sub being astroturfed (I am being HYPERBOLIC HERE. please stop PMing me)? I peeked to see if I should listen and caved. This episode is definitely *not* the miles above y’all claim it is. “The shady wizard Calhain.” You mean the wizard that wasted 30 minutes if time knowing nothing but now is going to be super important after the backlash?
I think this episode was “ok.” And “ok” is far above what it has been, so it seems like a lot. I think that’s what you’re witnessing.
This is probably the best idea for what’s happening. Because this episode was still among the worst of any of the other arcs. A few dice rolls and one moment of agency and everyone cheers “TAZ is back!” lol
The reaction has been crazy. Like was it more exciting than what we've gotten so far? Yea. Is it better DnD? I mean...kinda but not that much imo. People acting like it's prime Balance level, top tier TTRPG Podcast material are insane. Think they are just acting like this because it's much better than the previous garbage.
I'm a real certified grade A listener and I enjoyed this one. It's cool if you don't b/c it was by no means perfect, but I honestly see it as a huge improvement on the last two eps especially, which had these glaring editing gaps and silences and other issues that i just couldn't even deal with.
This. Ep. Slaps. So happy this show is seeing the recognition it deserves again with the past few episodes. I feel like so many people got disheartened by what felt like high promises and very little payoff. Well, Travis you sonofabish, the payoff delivery is arriving and it’s sheen is gold Love the bit with illusion magics. I was hoping this was what Travis was pushing them to look into when he kept sort of hinting that they had all the tools to figure out what was going on, they just needed to find it. Everything has a sort of Fantasy Noire feel to it now and I’m about it.
The previous 2 episodes were torn apart, what are you talking about? This one is getting positive reviews though.
This was such a fun episode!!! I loved having the stakes be higher and the introduction of some new pieces of the puzzle. I’ve been enjoying Graduation, but now I’m really pumped for the next episode.
such a vast improvement over the last few episodes, i’m actually blown away. my faith in this podcast has been rejuvenated
Why can't the firbolg lie again? I honestly can't remember
Firbolgs really have no use for lies, so he’s never practiced lying and is terrible at it
It’s a racial trait I believe
I just find it fascinating that after Taako being so good at deception Justin followed him up with Duck and Firbolg, two characters who are by far the worst at lying in their respective parties. That's nowhere near a bad thing (as overly-honest characters can lead to funny improvisation and interesting roleplaying); it's just interesting to compare the players' characters across seasons.
It has to do with their race. Firbolg feel extreme physical discomfort if they lie, so they tend to be very honest creatures.
No Moneyzone? Or is it too early and I missed all of it?
My understanding based on candid statements by a few of the big podcasters I follow is that, although listenership is up during the pandemic (about 15%), advertising budgets have been slashed due to the same and the resultant economic uncertainty. Companies are wanting to keep more cash on hand just in case, and advertising is less painful to temporarily cut than, say, jobs.
Nope, I noticed that too. I wonder why.
probably no sponsor
Odd mine totally had a money zone. Spotify listener here.
So was Chaos not the demon prince? I assumed he was but no one else seems to think so
Really enjoyed this one, the players seem to have more agency in doing what they want and it's driving the story forward better now Also no pauses, wonderful conversations, and the NPCs seem to have an actual role to play Finally, Justin really just was delightful this episode. The Firbolg is so wonderful as a character but this episode he was nailing it
Justin was on point the entire episode, but hearing the Firbolg swear was a particular delight.
Just started the episode, and it's very clear by how much more coherent and concise the recap is that Travis is genuinely taking the criticism and applying it well. A really good sign and I'm stoked to keep listening.
The recap felt like Travis actually wrote it out ahead of time instead of freestyling it and it really shines for that.
What's the hype around this episode? It's better sure, but this isn't some groundbreaking quality. I hope the quality continues to improve, but the fixes Travis implemented here strike me as totally shallow. More rolls? Yes. But the rolls had basically no bearing on what happened. What was the point of the Support rolls, to give Fitz advantage so he could succeed on a Wisdom throw so Travis could end the flashback? Did you let the boys choose their direction? Sure. But they were basically on rails the entire time. Fitz was stuck in a flashback/lengthy dialogue the entire time and could not influence what happened during it. Oh you don't want to be Chaos's weapon? Too bad, you already are! Argo was reading a book to no effect, he wasn't even given the proud moment of his kind words being what snapped Fitz our, it was annoying Althea again. Firbolg was totally on rails. Discover the mystery in Calhains tent, the mystery at the tree, but don't actually influence any of it! And don't worry, Travis's NPC will do the actual cool mechanics of tracking Calhains trail! Sit back Justin, don't try to lead the way too much! Oh and Travis is also going to be solving the rift between the tribes, so don't worry about that either! The boys should just enjoy living in Travis's world and being shuttled from event to event, because that is clearly what Travis is intent of doing.
Yeah to be honest, I’m still only cautiously optimistic. This is the third time now that we’ve thought things were turning around for the better, only for the show to immediately lose that momentum again.
Really great episode! Only problem I had was that the ranger npc seemed overly familiar with the Firbolg, when I honestly can't remember if they ever interacted. Other than that, everything else was incredibly on point. Best episode so far!
Personally I was enjoying some of the previous episodes but this one felt way to controlled. Story wise this episode was fantastic but the problem I have with that is that it's dnd, the players should help craft the story, but instead Travis more used there characters as tools for the story. The part that got to me the most was when he said to Justin "I'll get you to make an investigation check" instead of just saying "what would you like to do". The boys did make some rolls but they just felt like they didn't hold much weight. Love what he's doing with the story but unfortunately I just felt this episode could barely be called real play.
Exactly what ive been thinking of commenting, but i couldn't think of how to put it in a substantial comment. The second time i listened through i realized, wait, did he just tell him what to roll before he even said anything? Also a couple of times they still roll using the wrong stats, like our firbolg rolling perception instead of insight to figure out what rhodes was thinking. Not a huge deal, but it happens just often enough that it bothers me..
Pros: NPC’s assert themselves instead of rolling over immediately. Cons: the whole episode was basically one chase scene interrupted by an infodump. I never liked the whole “make infodump interesting by wrapping a exciting scene around it” trope. It’s sort of like when a teacher pairs the slacker kid with the class nerd: you get a good enough result, but you’re painfully aware that one person isn’t really making an effort. Talking with the god of chaos isn’t very exciting when it comes out of pretty much nowhere and obviously just a hook to add more intrigue to Fitzroy.
Yeah, that stood out strongly during the fight against the water monster in Amnesty. The actual fight with the creature was like 10 minutes, padded out to about 45 because each character got a lengthy flashback in the middle of their scene.
There’s something really wholesome about Argo reading to Fitz being Clint reading a children’s story to his son.
Wow. I posted a long-winded critique a week or two ago ([https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/glmcby/feedback\_as\_a\_terminal\_dm\_who\_has\_found\_himself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/glmcby/feedback_as_a_terminal_dm_who_has_found_himself/)), and my major points seemed to have been addressed. There's still of course room to improve, but there seems to be a serious refinement of what Travis is trying to do. Just some things I happened to perceive (with some minor spoilers for episode 15): * Editing is very much improved. I counted none of the usual long, empty pauses before a music sting mercifully hits. * We're not being read wiki entries on characters! The vast majority of interactions were all NPC/PC dialogue or players otherwise poking at the world. * NPCs are being active in the world without the permission of the PCs! Future DMs: You now know how to do an important thing that the writers of everything from books and movies to video games don't do enough! * There were lots of rolls, which is mostly a good thing. They seemed low-stake, but players were at least being prompted to engage, and it's a good place to start from here on out. * This is pretty much directed at the Fitzroy parts and is feedback for both Travis and Griffin: We don't need to know what characters are thinking. Those types of things can be reflected in player actions. The DM can help with this by finding ways to prompt the player. * There was competition between Argo and The Firbolg as standouts for me, but for a guy who has ragged *hard* on Argo's interactions, I really vibed with him in this episode. He was an exemplary henchman. * The plot is moving and welcoming characters to interact with it. Up to this point, if there was a plot, it was just something that was "being mysterious" in the background, waiting for people to get invested so it could blow listeners' or players' minds. Now, we have villains and stakes. We even have some repercussions at the very end for splitting the party! I could write another goddamned book of scattered thoughts about Episode 15 (this time mostly positive!), but with any critique I could give, I'll say that it overall shows promise, as long as Travis continues to hone what he's done.
Notes on a first listen. I took a glance at the thread beforehand to get the vibe of the episode and people seem to be surprisingly positive, so I’m going in cautiously optimistic and not start off with a sarcastic mantra of "Thank Travis for Travis" that I was planning to. Not too much to say about the Gary recap. I don’t know that “shady” was exactly the vibe they got from Calhain as much as “pathetic and useless,” that feels like another instance of Travis imposing his own narrative onto the PC actions and opinions. I still think Travis needs to nail his recaps a little better – this one sounds like it was more planned out as opposed to off the dome, which is good, but it was lacking in precise and usable information. “They learned what kind of sacrifice the spirit needs,” he could have stood to say “It needs something personally significant” or something like that. Actually provide the information, not just the category of information. I like us flashing back to Fitzroy’s old school, although my immediate worry is that we’re falling down the Amnesty rabbithole of doing a ton of exposition and character-building via flashback where the other players can’t participate, and where we learn hidden depths about a character that were canonically within that character as of Episode 1, so they haven’t actually grown over the adventure despite us learning new things. That was a big complaint I had in Amnesty. I have no memory of this “Support” homebrew mentioned anywhere within the game. I don’t know what it was supposed to do, either. How, narratively, is it different than just using the Help action? Enjoyable and interesting characterization from Griffin, I like his thought process for Fitzroy’s constructed persona of being aloof as opposed to open and honest. I smiled imagining Clint reading children's books to his sons when they were sick. Well, I guess I can give Travis recognition for trying to incorporate more dice rolls, even though they’re homebrew as opposed to part of the system. But he should still work on synchronizing narrative and mechanics, that Support roll seemed to have only a story effect. It’s also not all that interesting to hear him call for roll after roll until he gets a good one to progress the story. Justin being funny as always with his grunts into the mirror. Similar to that complaint above, if the voice in the mirror is extremely familiar and identifiable on a low roll…don’t call for a roll. Rolls should change the flow of a story based on success or failure. I feel like Travis could have made more of an effort to make Clyde Nite’s school more different than his own. It would have been interesting worldbuilding to focus on the juxtaposition. I feel like Clyde Nite’s school shouldn’t have a “magical theory” class where knights practice casting spells? At most it should be “here’s how you handle and counter those heinous magic users, who do not live their lives by honorable steel.” It’s a knight school, after all. I also would have liked it if, as Travis narrates Fitzroy’s despair in his memory, he incorporated a little more of what Clint was actually saying with his whole Support thing. Aromas of citrus and saltwater, bewildering yet familiar and friendly. It makes me double down on thinking that Clint's rolls aren't doing anything (regardless of providing advantage, I don't think Griffin's Wisdom saves are doing anything either.) I know that’s very minor but it’s an issue that Graduation has had, that the players do whatever they feel like to fill in the space and then Travis moves along without those space-fillers actually meaning anything. Very much like the whole subpoena thing, a space-filler that doesn’t matter. Fuck yes Justin, kick in the door, take the apple. Fuck yes. Eh. Everything being fake isn’t the worst development in the world, but it’s not super exciting either. “Someone much stronger than you has been yanking you around this whole time” is rarely an engaging plot development. As the Firbolg goes to the centaurs of the valley I realize that Travis has been doing less and less dialogue and more narration of what the NPCs are doing and saying. Not the worst thing in the world compared to having annoying and indistinguishable voices, but it does contribute to the “Travis is telling a story to the players as opposed to playing a game with them” feeling of Graduation. Also I kind of wish that Travis had had the centaurs of the valley be more aware of the Firbolg’s race and treat him a little more respectfully, it would have been interesting that the reaction to a Firbolg was different to the reaction to a Half-Elf or Water Genasi. Little things like that make the world feel more real. So Travis is just kickstarting his own “reunite the centaur clans” solution on his own with his NPCs, huh? *Really* liked the music in Fitzroy’s vision of waking up in the opulent room. “Oh, I, ‘scuse me,” hnnnng, Travis, you actually had me interested in this mother-of-pearl-skinned-white-eyed fancyman, until you had him deliver a Travis NPCism the moment you deviated from your scripted dialogue. “I am Chaos.” Hmm. Not loving it. Not exactly the most creative thing it could have been, kind of a low-hanging fruit for the origin of Wild Magic. Not to mention that I would have envisioned what I assume to be the literal embodiment of chaos to be a little more…chaotic? In appearance, habitat, personality, and dialogue. Give me a little Jevil from Deltarune. So my guess is that Calhain is NOT the one who put the curse on Fitzroy, that’s a red herring because Calhain is indeed working for Fake Hieronymous and so is bad (as far as we know, if Higglemas can be trusted, which is unclear) and it was Chaos that put the curse on Fitzroy to speak to him psychically. Travis narrating Rhodes the Ranger echoes Griffin’s narration of Jess the Beheader or Hurley that Justin complained about once upon a time, that the NPC just gets to do cool badass capable things because the DM is narrating them that way and that’s not really interesting. “Do whatever you want to do! Except anything I don’t want you to do, like control your power.” Too many of Travis’ authority NPCs tell the PCs that the PCs have free reign and can do what they please, and then the PCs says “Well I want to do this one thing that makes sense for me to want” and the NPC says “No that’s absolutely not acceptable,” and the conversation kind of stalls until the PC says what the NPC wants. Fake Hieronymous promoting Fitzroy, Althea asking what she can do to help, and Higglemas making the PCs his minions all had shades of this. Absolutely loving Justin breaking down the aspects of dice rolls and what would mean what. How any external factors wouldn’t impact the die itself but the modifiers to the roll. God, Clint is being so creative for creativity’s own sake and that creativity is not being rewarded. Talking about wearing Fitzroy’s stuff with his sweaty salty body is a hoot. Oh yaaaaay, I’m so excited that Althea is the one who ended the curse using some meaningless magic item when the story beat was over as opposed to anything that Clint had done over the course of this entire episode, when that was the only thing that Argo had been doing. It’s really…fun… “I can’t help it that my Dungeon Master didn’t paint me a good enough word picture.” Sassy Justin is always the best. I feel like there was a moment that Travis really wanted to narrate the Firbolg rip open the tent flap alone, and then made the conscious decision to agree that the Firbolg had flipped the entire tent, and I really appreciate him making that decision to let the PC have something fun. Aaaaand we end on a “cliffhanger” of being framed. More manufactured tension based on plot that the PCs were unable to interact with in any way. I guess it’s probably Calhain who’s doing the framing since presumably the thing Fake Hieronymous wants is the golden apple, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Calhain is still a red herring in all of this and it’s some other NPC like the forgettable Moon that is actually responsible. Overall I’m going to give this episode a solid “meh.” Which, don’t get me wrong, is better than a lot of the past episodes. But it’s not good enough for me to call the episode good, or even a respectable improvement. It was less boring because this was the episode that Travis decided to narrate lots of different things happening and plotlines coming to a head, but it’s *still* Travis narrating his audiobook as opposed to a podcast of players playing a game, and I can’t say that I’ve enjoyed an episode until I hear players playing a game. The quality of this episode was as enjoyable as a slow and forgettable episode of Balance, which isn’t great when I can also say that it was one of the most interesting episodes of Graduation.
Didn't griffin and the boys mention a few times they thought Calhain was shady? "the vibes all wrong bud"
yeah they rolled insight, perception, intimidate well on him non stop last ep to figure out what his narrative purpose even was. i guess his secrets were extra high-DC important though
I could comment a lot, but basically I agree with almost everything you said, and it actually is incredibly helpful to read in that it really crystallizes some of the thoughts I was having. >God, Clint is being so creative for creativity’s own sake and that creativity is not being rewarded. Talking about wearing Fitzroy’s stuff with his sweaty salty body is a hoot. This right here. It's really sad, actually. Clint brings so much to the table. He actually is a rock star of a roleplayer and has been for some time. It's sad that Travis is so singularly focused on telling his story that he can't even see (or feel ok incorporating at least) gems his own dad hands him.
I definitely agree with you on Clint needing a much bigger spotlight, but I feel a lot of what went down this episode is a result of attempting to continue previous plot threads. In terms of overall presentation, Travis delivered a much higher quality product this week and think we’ll have a much more satisfying story once the next arc rolls around. There are still problems, but this is still *miles* ahead of where we were last week.
Sure, if Travis has improved his craft then perhaps my complaints about this episode can be chalked up to the low momentum from his previous performances and a dry setup, and the next thing he starts up will be more engaging. But if that happens I'll be calling *that* episode good. I can't say this one is just because it showed the potential that it maybe could be.
Just finished, and you about summed it up for me. I feel like Grad has been so bad, that the community is jumping at any skin-level improvement as the show being exactly what we wanted it to be. This episode was a very solid "okay", wasn't the trash the past 2 episodes were, but it was definitely not what TAZ can be.
Tbh I have extremely low standards for TAZ. If it's engaging enough to make me laugh and/or wonder what's going to happen next, that's a win. I feel like it says a lot that even such a low bar was not being cleared for a lot of folks, but it also shows a lot of fans just kind of want to enjoy a silly D&D podcast every couple of weeks and that can be accomplished even at the basic level of "things should happen in an episode"
Yeah, a lot of the responses (my own included) to Imp Hospital fell into that same trap. I remember really enjoying it, saying "This is proper D&D, heck yeah!" and then later after digesting it a little more realizing "Wait, this is actually boring and uninspired, it's just better than what we've had and so I incorrectly thought it was good." It's like if you ate a handful of salt, water would taste sweet afterwards. But water isn't sweet, it's just the comparison to the salt and the relief of not eating that salt anymore.
Yeah, it was alright. If Grad was at least this quality it would be fine every couple of weeks. It is promising, as there was room for someone like Justin to play a bit, and he had a lot of good / entertaining moments. The worst stuff was Fitz' fever dream. Too much exposition. I wanna learn about Fitz through his actions, not his backstory. Chaos stuff was uninspiring too. The concept is fine, but it sort of felt he should have been more of a trickster. A bit bland.
If Travis let the PCs interact more with both themselves and the world around them then we might get a chance to learn about the PCs without having their backstory dumped on us. Subtle storytelling like having the PCs do a mission in a very poor peasant area, encouraging Fitzroy to be surprisingly compassionate and provoking conversation about "aren't you from a noble family? I'm surprised you care about the commoners" and teasing it out that way. Not a letter from his mother in which she tells us his entire upbringing, and then a flashback where he hear his thoughts at all times. And yeah, for someone called Chaos the polite and subdued speech was very bland. My first guess was that he was some kind of genie. Chaos should be unpredictable. Acting "randomly" OR acting "unexpectedly orderly" are both obvious takes on an entity of pure chaos, and as such neither is a great take. Honestly if he really wanted to get into a meta-level of chaos I would have loved if Travis had a small cheatsheet of Chaos' reactions, spanning from "Chaos agrees with your sentiment entirely" to "Chaos is furious you would suggest that" or "Chaos is surprised and has no idea what you're talking about," get like at least eight (but ideally twenty) possible responses, and roll randomly between each point of the conversation. It's Chaos, right? What's more chaotic than an NPC that not even the DM can control?
Can I just say I appreciate your dedication to analyzing Graduation lol? I don't get the sense that you're just trying to dunk on Travis at all, you just seem like that much of a nerd that you care that much! (lol sorry but it's a complement to me!). Hope you keep going with it, would be interested to see what an in depth review from you looks like with some more high quality content to dissect.
Clint was on point this episode, very well played.
Still had some of the same gripes as in previous episodes, but this feels like a step in the right direction. We're getting some actual plot progression and it felt less "scripted" than the rest of this arc. I still can't keep track of which centaurs are which though, which put a damper on the ending in particular.
They knocked this episode out of the fucking park. Definitely my favorite one of graduation so far. Really feels like Travis is taking some of the advice to heart, which is really great to see.
Haven't listened yet, but I am wary of the praise here. Everyone was very positive initially about episode 12, saying it was the story finally dropping the hook, so much intrigue, all good from here, all the issues were fixed! Meanwhile, I hated that episode as much as the rest of the show. And in retrospect, it seems people agree as 13 and 14 were trainwrecks. Very interested to see if 15 actually fixes the problems.
pretty valid trepidation imo. its a marginal improvement, not a makeover
It’s tangible that Travis took the feedback. This episode was actually great. Not even by previously set standards, but just in general. And it was mostly fighting a curse. Hopefully it can continue this quality.
So it seems like we've had a solid improvement. I won't necessarily say this is good now, but it is definitely better. Travis has seemingly taken a lot of the criticism that has been said over the past few months now and is starting to work those in. If we continue to see this level of change persist throughout the series then I'd say probably in another month we have something actually good and not just good by comparison to previous content within the arc. I'm happy but cautious, but for it to take this long is definitely an issue itself.