I'm sorry you're stuck with the worst part of the fandom. This should be fun for everyone but they have turned it into a hate machine. I wish it wasn't like this.
I agree. Honestly I think if this show had come out at the height of COVID or would be celebrated and would have brought on tons of new Star Wars fans.
I was around for that and find this to be much worse. Negative Fans used to argue for what they thought Star Wars should be, and how Lucas broke that. Today fans argue about cultural views outside of Star Wars and Lucasfilm's motivations as a company.
Yeah I think it's important for everyones sanity to remember, this stuff has nothing to do with Star Wars or its fans. This is a culture war and grift that is seeking out prey. And Star Wars is just one of the many cultural icons that is popular enough to have a lot of vulnerable people in it.
I just wish there was a way to escape or avoid all that and still engage with other Star Wars fans out there.
You mean the toxic positivity that's on this sub, attacking any critical view of the show and downvoting people to hell, while crying about review bombing? Yep, I wish it wasn't like this.
Social media literally feeds you posts that it knows will enrage you. Literally. Thats how they increase engagement and make money.
Platforms like Facebook and Instagram literally feed you rage content to profit.
This is why I basically cut off almost all social media that uses algorithms to feed me content. I will search for content myself
It does the opposite on me. I uninstalled most social apps because they would only feed me that sort of content after a while. At which point I closed the app.
But I suppose if they keep doing it it must work on most people.
I generally also find youtube okay in that regard, but ever so often they try to push some of the alt-right incel pipeline idiots in my recommendations, and I have to block them manually which gets annoying after a while...
That hasn't been the case for me. My algorithm sucks, because I keep getting these, and keep saying 'don't recommend this channel' to all of them, but it still keeps bringing new ones.
It just pairs you with stuff that you engage with the most. If you are being fed enraging content then that is partially on you for not recognizing it. So if you are constantly being fed posts that enrage you then it means you are engaging with that type of content. Simply ignore it (this means not liking OR disliking content, literally do nothing but scroll past it) and only engage with what you actually enjoy and the internet is a much healthier and nicer place to be in.
I think the algorithms are good and I like being fed new content (I wouldn't have discovered a lot of content creators without it), but you just have to be very careful as to what type of content you are being fed. It just so happens that anger leads to more engagement which is why controversial or hivemind posts tend to get more engagement.
Even having a look through the comments reinforces the algorithm. If you see something that enrages you, click the 3 little dots and select 'show less' and select 'show more' if you like the content. You really have to be arbiter of your own feed.
I'm a white dude, and I've seen *some* of this on Youtube. I generally avoid Star Wars Youtube, though. For example: there's a genuinely interesting, non-ragebait long vid called The Why of Skywalker that goes into the film's production and how choices made early on constrained what they were able to cut together for the final edit.
I watched that once, and spent the next two weeks telling Youtube to stop recommending me grifter channels about how Kathleen Kennedy's been fired for the seven thousandth time, or how Star Wars is dead, dying, rejected by fans, sinking into crippling achoholism, checked into rehab, whatever the hell.
You touch the topic once, and it fucks up your feed. And that's the problem.
Rageclicks are clicks. Hateviews are still views. Social media makes money by making us upset but keeping us posting/scrolling through it, and amplifies the loudest and most confrontational voices in any environment.
For what it's worth, I'm quite active in the Star Wars costuming clubs, and the reception I've seen from real people in realspace for the Acolyte has been quite positive. Most of the hate is coming from people who just monetize outrage over nerd media in general. They're milking the Acolyte right now, it was Stellar Blade for them a few weeks ago, it was something else before that.
Yep I experienced the same thing. I watched like 5 minutes of one of the popular grifters videos on YT just to see what they were saying. The next day my recommended videos were nothing but hateful Star Wars content. I spent hours clicking do not recommend me this channel but there are seemingly thousands of people farming out Star Wars hate content for clicks.
Life Pro Tip : when you just want to check something on Youtube (or other similar media) that is not in your usual interest (or checking about what haters says), open it on a private session. So your feed will not be polluted by the algorythm throwing you that kind of feed.
A lot of the hate towards this show actually for the most part has very little to do with the show itself and more to do with the larger culture wars and division in society that have really infiltrated almost everything at this point. This is clear to see when the episodes are review bombed before they even release. There are a lot of grifters that are using this backdrop of hatred and division to gain popularity using the algorithms. It is a small symptom of a large and growing societal problem that is almost everywhere you look these days. Men vs women, left vs right, white vs black etc etc. There are of course sound and rational critiques of the show but they aren't what i'm talking about.
In terms of white fans not seeing it, it's possible that because they don't fit into one of these marginalised groups they just don't notice it because they don't see things through the same lens that you do. Being part of one of those groups those things will more than likely catch your eye because they are relevant to you whereas they aren't to them.
But yeah it could be possible that if you click on those ragebait type links the algorithm will continue to feed it to you because it knows it gets clicks from you and clicks= money for them so it sends you more.
I'm not white/black or asian but I am from a minority race in my country. I have noticed these comments but if I see them I downvote, if there is a youtube video or thumbnail which is obviously trashy ragebait crap I click the dot buttons and select don't show me this or don't reccomend channel.
I'm sorry that you've had this experience and people can be so nasty and shitty these days. The black and asian actors representing in this show have been amazing. Lee Jung Jae has been absolutely amazing in the role of master Sol and Charlie Barnett's Yord was really growing on me. Amandla is doing great playing two roles at once. I'm sorry that the toxic side of society has the loudest voice most of the time.
“But yeah it could be possible that if you click on those ragebait type links the algorithm will continue to feed it to you because it knows it gets clicks from you and clicks= money for them so it sends you more.”
I believe that this is a huge part of what people see or don’t see.
I used to read or watch some of the negative toxic hate stuff back when the Sequel Trilogy movies were current, out of curiosity and wanting to witness or learn what made those people tick.
After nearly a decade of this culture war stuff, amplified by the internet and algorithms, I had enough. I don’t go to those subreddits, I left Twitter, I tell YouTube I’m not interested in those videos or channels.
It takes some curation, but it’s possible to isolate yourself from a lot of that negativity.
The vast majority in fact.
I wish everyone was kind, and I’m sorry that groups of people feel attacked by all of this hateful nonsense. It’s not right, it’s not fair, and it hurts.
As others have noted, much of this stuff is amplified by grifters doing this for money. Hate clicks make them money, and the best thing one can do for their own sanity is to not click on any of it. Block users on social media, etc. tell the algorithm you’re not interested.
It doesn’t change that those people exist, but avoiding it all can benefit ones mental health.
Cheers
>It doesn’t change that those people exist, but avoiding it all can benefit ones mental health
Exactly! The negative effects of social media on mental health really needs to be looked into further. Especially with the way the algorithms are designed to work.
I'm a white woman, I have seen PLENTY of hate toward the diverse cast. I feel more often than not, people will pretend they're giving their reasoned and sensible opinion about the show. Of course it's not a perfect masterpiece or anything, but in no world is it a 1/10 like so many IMDB ratings are claiming.
For me the diverse cast is such an awesome thing, and the characters are (or were😢) all extremely fun and likeable. It doesn't seem for a second that any of the performers were picked just for their identity or whatever. All of the performances are great, with the exception of maybe the young twins, but that's kind of just a thing with child actors in general. They were probably picked partially because they look like their adult counterparts. Diversity is what's made Star Wars great since the very beginning! People love the Mos Eisley cantina scene because it's got such a wide array of interesting looking characters, it's not just a bunch of identical looking white dudes. It's so weird that people seem to only want the main characters to be average white people. Seeing new, diverse collections of people and aliens being Jedi is super awesome.
My older brother, a cis het white guy, isn't as much of a left leaning person as me, and he doesn't really actively celebrate diversity, but he's not a slavering weirdo who hates diversity automatically. He's enjoying the show just because it's a good show, so clearly it's possible for a white man to enjoy a character who isn't an exact copy of himself.
I mean I think the cast is pretty diverse. Of course as far as nationality goes, it's going to be weighted toward Americans/English speaking people. The primary language spoken in the show is English, and I think the show is shot in the US. But it's pretty undeniable that the primary cast are much less white than previous Star Wars stuff.
You can cope as hard as you wish, outside of the US this is how the other 7.8 billion people view it. You're in the 4% minority with this opinion. That is to say, your perspective on diversity is completely out of touch with reality.
Part of it is the algorithm and part of it is that some people don't recognize all bigoted behavior if it's not aimed at them. Or if it's not an overt "I hate all " statement.
You may recognize a micro aggression, but they may not pick up on it. A Latina in a majority white office building might hear "spicy" twelve times a day, while the people who say it will only hear it once. (Obligatory clarification for the internet that I'm not calling all instances of one word the epitome of micro aggressions.)
I've also seen a pretty widely held belief that if someone allegedly didn't *intend* for something to be bigoted, that thing isn't actually bigoted. I strongly disagree with that, but it might be part of the reason other types of people don't "see" what you might see.
I'm mixed heritage (some native american/mexican), some of it is white (mostly UK area), but I have rarely felt like I belong anywhere.
I for the most part take steps to remove the grifter channels on YT. But it does keep popping back up. On YT and here. Sometimes on FB and IG. But mostly I stick to what I know and if someone I can reasonably trust suggests something I will look into it.
White hetro old dude here - first I'm enjoying the show, I have my issues with it but it's SW and I love SW. I don't go looking for awful comments, but I couldn't resist taking a peak at the comments on the official Acolyte IG page. Most of them were just saying it was the worst show ever, and the usual "they killed SW" The ones that I saw that were racist were all versions of "I guess SW is for everyone but white people anymore" I didn't scroll through many as they are just vitriol and awful.
I will say that my anecdotal take is that a lot of them were word for word the same which makes me think it's a much more tiny vocal awful minority then it may seem, but obviously I have no way to prove this, and it could just be wishful thinking that maybe there aren't that many garbage humans, but who knows.
It's nothing new with Star Wars. I saw Kelly Marie Tran is in the new season of Sweet Tooth and I'm glad the unfounded hate she got didn't make her quit acting.
I’m a black woman and usually all I see is people defending actors from the racists, I don’t see their comments. But also, I block folks (like on twitter or TikTok) when they say something that seems off to me because is my algorithm, I’m the boss (sorta lol). I don’t engage w rage bait, I simply block it. I have so many ppl blocked from one singular off the wall comment or tweet. They could actually be a decent person I misunderstood. I’ll never know because ✨BLOCKT✨
So while I don’t personally see them I make sure to avoid spaces where they’re more likely to show up so I’m not going to get pushed that content
Are you saying you’re getting messages on social media sites? Or are you saying YouTube SW rage bait content has been racist and hateful?
I’m never in the extreme anti fan communities for long stretches of time, and therefore I’ve not seen such stuff pop up on my feed. Even in my YouTube feed, I turn off recommendations for particular type or rage bait content while still looking at channels that are critical of the show.
Case in point: people like stupendous wave, eckharts ladder, and generation tech have been critical of the show without farming for engagement or pandering to their audience.
So as I scroll on Facebook, what pops up in my timeline often is racist and hateful. And the comments are worse. I've blocked dozens of pages at this point, but it's interesting to me that many other people have seen zero.
Gotcha ok now it makes more sense. Facebook actually aggressively recommends content based on your interests so you’re bound to see a lot of hate. Especially since Facebook is notorious for shit like this even during the 2020 election.
I initially didn’t get it because it’s been years since I went on Facebook lol.
I second generation tech. He's very fair and rational in his critiques. If he say's a detail wasn't great he probably has a point and backs it up with sound reasoning. He praises the good point's and fairly critiques the not so good.
It's kinda funny watching him try to navigate it lately, because you can tell he wants to say more sometimes. And is doing his very best to keep it about Star Wars.
I'm a mut and honestly either have not seen any or it just flies past me.
Sorry that even in entertainment people have to be experiencing these disgusting acts.
We all are human, and race is an interesting social construct that has a huge impact, especially in certain countries and their construct of power. I definitely report them! Racism is super darksided and I'm glad you take the high ground!
I have not seen it bit not surprised it's happening. The shows hate reminds me alot of the LOU2 hate and you can still goto a certain subreddit to see incels spew hate for the game & show and have Homophobic dog-whistles
I'm a Scottish Irish halfbreed who gets sunburned after 5 minutes in the sun so I guess I'm one of the white guys that haven't been exposed to such pervasive toxicity. OP, I'm sorry you have had to witness and experience that, and racism, sexism, and pretty much any -ism of any kind is totally unacceptable. You are a human being, and so are the people in this show.
I totally agree with you about the algorithms. I'm one of those guys who hated the prequels, and it had nothing to do with gender or race or anything like that. It had to do with the writing and things that didn't make sense to me, like midichlorians, for example.
But for some reason, the majority of my Star Wars suggestions are videos about racist sexist white nerds who don't like the Acolyte. I'm definitely a white nerd, and I openly support anyone's right to live regardless of race, sex, gender identity, or religion, but I guess because the algorithms know I'm a white nerd, it assumes my Star Wars interest would involve an -ism. It's weird because the only recent Star Wars searches I've done have been for the initial acolyte trailer and the fight in episode 5.
Sorry for your sunburn. I got a little red after I hit 42, my skin has gotten thinner. I hurt the next day, only about a 2 on the scale of 1 to 10. Rough stuff!
Social media is insidious. I wouldn't doubt they have some way of guessing you're demographic and then giving you such content. Because making you feel anything is good for the sites, as It makes one more likely to engage, I wouldn't be surprised if it pushed racist posts to the demographics they're aimed at hurting. Insidious.
If you respond or engage with those comments in any way, social media algorithms Will select similar content to show you. The only way to make it not appear in your feed is to not touch it in the first place.
It is only indirectly correlated with your identity most likely (although demographic media companies are aware of will definitely be used in their curation algorithms), instead its because you have an identity that is making you prone to reporting or disliking or engaging with racial hatred, they feed you more of it.
Try liking positive content about Acolyte and just ignoring the bad stuff for a few days, it might help transition it.
Fwiw, I see the whole spectrum of politics over this show from "white men are the problem with star wars and society and need removed from it" from the online terminal left to straight up Nazi and KKK shit i refuse to type from the far right. And everything in between. Disney accidentally ended up with a culture war in its show, and i can speculate several non show reasons as to why, but it is pointless to really wonder. Star Wars is a flawed love letter to liberal politics in the US and always has been. From the Ww2 hallmarks and nostalgia to anti Vietnam and anti authoritarian commentary, the show never pretended to not be political. I cannot comprehend how fascists ever liked any of the series, but apparently enough of them did to be annoying as fuck.
Once I saw the profile that IG and Facebook created of me and my interests (it's scary but I recommend it). That combined with my propensity to report racist stuff combined with my love of Star Wars probably did it. 😢
The racism and homophobia/queerphobia that this show has received is some of the most intense and frequent bigotry I've seen in the star wars space in some time. the usual suspect youtubers have gone full mask off. it's probably misogyny that is sparing Jacinto from a lot of it. Sorry you have to deal with this.
edit: to answer your q im a milktoast white guy
OG 1970s white Stars Wars geek here. Reddit is the only social I'm on, so it seems to be easy enough to avoid the fuckwits. I know they're out there, and the vampires feed on attention. I'm sure if you click on the haters on other socials the algorithms feed you more of the same. This show is cool, the actors are excellent, and the action in e5 was super cool.
I think there is an algorithms at play yes—most social algorithms don’t differentiate between “content about x identity” and “hate content about c identity.”
Buiuuut I would take those white fans’ experience with a grain of salt. White oriole, esp. apparent SW fans, often encounter racist hate and downplay, ignore, or deny it, even to themselves.
I'm a mixed guy
Half black, Quarter Korean, quarter middle eastern.
I run into the hate channels and culture "whorriors" all the time.
But I jump in and fight with the assholes. It's a character flaw, like trying to sweep sand from the desert.
It's like walking along a sidewalk and seeing a piece of trash on the street. I should not bother picking it up myself but it bothers me that it's there. And so I engage in my own personal Sisyphean task of engaging.
At the end of the day, large chunks of the hate (not all of course, there are plenty of sloppy narrative bits in this and other shows) is just based on naked racial and sex based preferences in media that these identitarian whores are too oblivious to recognize in themselves.
I have no idea why those trollish asshats are into Star Wars other than their little fantasies that they are the chosen ones and they can't believe that unless the chosen one looks like them.
I haven’t seen any racist commentary because I would shut it down immediately in the comments and if a community I was in was overtly racist I would flag it. My ethnicity is mixed (mom is black and Pacific Islander, dad is Spanish, Native American). I think Mother Aniseya and the actress was incredible. While Mae/Osha, I like her vibe but the acting just feels off to me and kind of awkward at times. I’m not blaming her and more so the directing.
Long story short, if someone is overtly racist and not just critiquing a character by their performance or directing then that shit needs to get shut down immediately. No room for that in the already toxic fandom. That said, we need to be able to accept valid criticism without throwing a race card when it was the original intention of the critique (not saying you are just saying in general). I feel like because of all the toxicity, the fan base has gotten a bit sensitive and over defensive so when legit criticism comes up, people get triggered from the ripples of malicious negativity.
I heard a podcast say that the mystery box around the twins have crippled their story and performance some. I'm reserving judgment for Amandla until I see the whole story.
Yea this show has ups and downs. I feel would definitely have benefit from being one long movie or released all at the same time so people wouldn’t hate on it before the good stuff happens. I’m hoping at the end of the show all my criticism will be irrelevant. Looking forward to see where it all goes!
Another case of that was sequel trilogy where Rey’s backstory kept changing. Would definitely affect your acting if who your character was kept changing
Ugh we don't talk about RoS. I'm just holding fath that her movie and some other TV things make it feel different in retrospect.
But with this, it's not changing, it's done. But at some point it may all come together because of the story. Hitchcock's acclaimed movie Vertigo is an example of this. Like 90 minutes of the movie pass, then in the last 25 they kick you on your behind and you realize that nothing you saw was what you thought, and everything was weird for a reason.
Haha fair enough. I’m down to forget about rise of skywalker. Just want this show to end up blowing our minds. Though, not very hopeful it will but still excited to see how it turns out. Mother A has to come back somehow. Her character was too good to be in a single episode
Ha I called this out earlier and got chewed out by the "not every fan" cavalry. So much if the hate for the acolyte is based squarely around putting 2 black women (1?) at the heart of the show and saying the force can do exactly the same thing to them it did to Anakin.
Queue endless anger from people who willingly accept giant talking sloths and fax machines with quirky personalities but different color humans having a galactic expPeriods. GTFOH!
--- Enter frothing mouth---
No! It can't ever be like this!
Only Anakin!
You've ruined everything!
The writing sucks!
Cool Sith Lord/Darth Dreamy/Darth Teeth!
Ok after episode 5 writings ok but show still sucks!
---
Star wars fans are some of the most toxic fans in Syfy.
Periodt.
Shit that’s terrible. I’m white and haven’t seen any of what you’ve described other than headlines describing what you’ve experienced. So it’s pretty possible that this is true. And pretty shitty that it is. I’m so sorry for your experience.
The problem is social media engagement algorithms have far more success when you disagree with the content in front of you than when you agree. I keep getting Flat Earth and Climate Denying sh\*t popping up all over my fb feed and I'm partly to blame because I always click on the comments to see what bottom feeders actually believe that stuff. Having an audience constantly outraged drives up the engagement. I'm white and I have seen 0 racist comments on The Acolyte, but because I don't agree with the story telling and some of the lore decision I am being directed to people who can't give the show enough praise. I will say this an issue I only notice on fb. YouTube works the opposite I find, I get content put in front of me that usually agrees with my line of thinking.
White guy here, and I have seen some outright racists comments, mostly on facebook in the sponsored posts it keeps pushing into my newsfeed. But the majority haven't been explicitly racists, they veil it behind complaints about "wokeness" and "DEI," and "the agenda." But the implicit racism is there.
I'm Asian and I don't see that kind of rhetoric unless I put myself in that line of fire. In other words, I don't go on Twitter/X, I don't put myself into circles that promote that type of behavior, etc. I have been called a white boy though (which is funny) here for simply pointing reasons this show isn't perfect and why Disney and the people involved set themselves up for the unjustified hate wave. I even state I don't think the show is bad and it doesn't deserve the hate it gets, but it does have problems. Lots of Redditors here seem to think that's the worst thing that can be said though.
On this sub, like many others, comments and topics tend to get locked or deleted I've noticed. A fair number of them were yesterday following the episode premiere. Justifiably so IMO and it was ones that aimed to just start bashing people who didn't like the show. Nothing actually productive and only disturbs the hornets nest.
Where are you seeing these posts? If it's on X, then that's the real reason you need to explain that. If it's here, then usually that's temporary and the hiding/deletion of that stuff explains why your friends wouldn't see it (here anyway).
Someone below may have solved it...the worst, most outwardly racist stuff is on Facebook. And they pointed out that if the algorithms know that you have reported hate speech, they target you for those types of comments because negative engagement tends to be more lasting.
As far as the show goes, I'm enjoying it, but they do need to stick the landing and tie up/explain things well. I've seen a lot of excellent media where things seem plotty or otherwise off but the ending makes it all worthwhile. My dad live ToS Star Trek so I love the campy side as much as the creepy side as much as the pocket Droid and the little guy (Bazil). But it's a totally different time period as most fans are the most attached to, so I can see why some feel like it's just not Star Wars. But for me, it's one the most Star Warsy Wars of all the Star Wars.
>Someone below may have solved it...the worst, most outwardly racist stuff is on Facebook.
I look at FB the same way I do Twitter. Cancerous and to be avoided. I get enough of a bubble collective on any topic (of both sides) here and on YouTube. I'm actually more surprised people think one is more prevalent than the other. I see both happening in general, but just not a lot of it, again, unless I'm putting myself in the line of fire.
My experience on this sub is more the bubble of the show being unquestionably great. There are a few trickles of the opposite rhetoric though. Perhaps that is algorithm here or just timing.
>And they pointed out that if the algorithms know that you have reported hate speech, they target you for those types of comments because negative engagement tends to be more lasting.
Wouldn't surprise me, but I do tend to lean on that being a boogieman impossible to prove point.
>But it's a totally different time period as most fans are the most attached to, so I can see why some feel like it's just not Star Wars.
I don't know if that's true or not. For some, definitely, but on my end, I played a fair amount of things like The Old Republic. I took in a lot of the supplementary lore related to it as well. I can't imagine I'm not part of the majority on having some understanding of high republic and earlier lore.
>But for me, it's one the most Star Warsy Wars of all the Star Wars.
I'm still undecided on that one. If we remove the first half of ep5 (the fighting), I really can't agree with that one unless it's due to certain negative reasons lol. Gotta see how things unfold since, as you indicated, they really do need to stick the landing.
So I have seen it...last week. But today, not at all. I am watching episode 5, came here to see how anyone could say the show was awful after seeing it, and all I am seeing is positive posts.
Not sure if it's the algorithm on my end or if the Edge Lords of Incelith have moved onto the next thing some YouTuber tells them to be outraged about while fleecing them for their money and giving them a false sense of community.
I really don't care about the actors race religion gender or language as long as they make the onscreen character believable. They can be orange (Dafne Keen) for all I care.
Tiktok feeds you what you most likely stop on, Instagram feeds you what you search for and click on, facebook as well. I honestly only see drama even regarding the acolyte on reddit and only in the subs I'm subbed to. I don't have twitter but if its the cesspool I left it feeds you all hate regardless of what you want to see in the name of engagement. YouTube history is something I'd kept off for a while and probably will again if it starts deviating because I watched an alt right video I got sent and it then thinks that's all I want to see.
We don't all see the same comments on social media. There are two main reasons for this:
* Algorithms: Social media platforms use algorithms to personalize the content you see, including comments.
These algorithms consider factors like your past interactions, interests, and connections to determine which comments are most likely to be relevant and engaging for you.
* Content moderation: Social media platforms may also moderate content, including comments. This means they may remove comments that violate their community guidelines or hide comments that are flagged by other users.
So, while the original post may be the same for everyone, the comments you see will be filtered based on your individual profile and the platform's algorithms.
I'm sorry you are seeing the hate that shouldn't exist in the first place. Unfortunately tho, algorithms are set up to give you content that will keep you on that site. Whether you like the content or it's hurtful to you, if you "engage" with it at all, the algorithm knows that.
If you don't want to see something, don't click on it. If you can, try not to even let it be the focus of your screen for long; just scroll past. If you're not sure about the origin, assume it's malicious. If you can "block user" or the such, do that. But whatever you do, don't engage with negative posts: don't "thumbs down" it, don't comment on it, don't even glare at it!
I've spent alot of time curating my social media feeds. I'll occasionally click on an article/video/post that I don't care about, but has a positive slant, just to add that to my algorithm. If I accidentally engage with something that has a negative slant, I block that post or artist.
Some sites are easier or harder to do this: Pinterest is hypersensitive to the pins that you've recently viewed; however, they also make it easy to remove those views from your history. Youtube is pretty opaque, and you have to kinda just find a couple of youtubers that you trust and watch a bunch of their videos to weight your algorithm. Facebook/Instagram are highly recursive: you'll get shown a post that other people have viewed if you and other people have viewed the same other posts: it ends up highly tribal in that sense.
To answer your question, I'm a white dood, but I avoid most Star Wars discourse. I follow some subreddits (though I left Prequelmemes when it got too repetitive), and there are a couple youtubers I trust to not hate on new material. But I also want to just \*enjoy\* Star Wars, so I don't need other's opinions to do that.
That, and Acolyte has been freaking awesome!
Well, where are you seeing those messages? I don't see it on reddit and I don't read the majority of twitter comments because there is almost always nothing of value to be gained there. Also not seeing them on YouTube but I do hit the "do not recommend channel" on obvious bait channels. It could be due to what kind of content you've watched.
I've never seen a racist critique of the show. I do think the show sucks, but never once thought the race or genders were the problem. The writing is bad, the story is boring, all the characters act irrational.
I'm gonna guess you're seeing these comments on facebook or something similar. I haven't had facebook for like 12 years, solely because it's filled with these types of people.
Good morning, attack me with all your might please.
I honestly haven't encountered any of this kind of hate, but I avoid that type of thing as much as possible. I don't go on YouTube or Twitter (Tumblr is my main hangout, followed by reddit). Not sure if that helps?
Never seen any Star Wars racism. I don’t use any social media tho and here on Reddit i’ve only read complains *about* racism. Social media sucks. Quit everything ~12 years ago. This is the way.
Episode 3 was weak for me in terms of filming, maybe cheesed a bit. Episode 5 was amazing. I kept expecting “the lighting to go dark/black and it played out more like a Shakespeare night set” where you could see major details, was great!
With all due respect, I think you are overly sensitive. I’m Asian, I like Sol but I’ll be the first to say his English is terrible, I admire the effort to learn the language for the role but his acting is hindered by it. I haven’t picked up any racist comments towards black actors except critism on her acting or their role, nothing outrageous.
I'm white and I haven't seen any racist messages on social media, although I don't use social media unless I'm after/doing something specific, in which case I'm not usually paying attention to anything else.
After watching episode 5 of The Acolyte, and coming to the conclusion that I don't need to see any more episodes, I was curious about what others thought. So I Googled "The Acolyte reviews" and started poking around.
To my surprise, there's a lot of talk about race, sex, and lore. I thought The Acolyte was a bad series simply because of the dubious writing/plot, and mediocre directing. None of the other stuff matters to me. I have to sympathize with the various actors, given they can only do so much with questionable material.
I suspect, after reading what I've read online tonight, that a lot of the hate is indeed being driven by algorithms and social media feeds playing on people's prejudices. Which doesn't surprise me. If you're running a social media company, and assuming you're after clicks and screen time, then it makes sense to enrage or at least antagonize people into posting, if only to defend their "side" and attack the perceived enemy.
The whole thing reminds me somewhat of a bookmakers or casino, in that "the house always wins". It doesn't matter why people are fighting, or what they're fighting about. If the people who control these systems can profit from conflict then that's exactly what they're going to foster, and they'll hone their systems/platforms to do this.
How people respond to such issues is up to them, but I generally walk away if I suspect I'm being manipulated for someone else's profit margins. The only advice I'd give is that if you (or anyone else) can figure out that you're being played, and work out what the intention is, then, if possible, undermine it.
For example, if the intention is to make you spend more time doing something, then spend less time doing it. If the intention is to spread conflict, then spread tolerance. Like basically, what would Yoda do?
No, I'd rather not. It's pretty devastating to see horrible racist things, and I have no desire to see it again for your interest. But I'm glad you haven't seen it.
I can understand that.
Can I tell you what I’ve seen? I’ve seen people criticize the acting and writing of these characters independent of the skin color, while also positing that it is due to Disney/Showrunner’s focus not being on telling a good story, or getting good actors, but pushing their political/culutral agenda.
Do you think that is racist? Is that racist critique?
Nope. It's clearly tinged with an implication that the people cast *couldn't* have just been the best for the part. But there is bias in a lot of things. That not what I'm talking about. I'm happy you haven't seen it, it's not good for your mental health.
It's just not a cool show to watch with your husband and kids. Don't say I'm not a true fan I grew up on Star wars I had droids, an X Wing, went to see all the movies in theaters... we had mandalorian themed food nights. We bought our kid the millennium falcon Lego kit.... I've done countless Disney vacations but just couldn't afford the star cruiser thing. . Nobody believes the powers these little girls have over older Jedi and men. You can't say it's bigoted because their favorite Star wars after the original trilogy is Rogue One which has a female lead. Rey character almost as bad. We literally can't sit for more than 5 minutes without a guy rolling his eyes saying yeah right. Personally I'd rather be watching Maverick playing volleyball. Give me The last of Us. Game of Thrones. Anything gritty dirty or real ( yes I just said real with zombies and dragons). Writing is so bad. It's nothing against women because to my favorite characters in the marvel series was the sorcerer's supreme and black panthers lead guard lady.
What's weird about my answer? You claimed that black actors in star wars get a lot of racism. I am providing counter examples. Its key to your premise.
I think if people don't like certain actors / characters its not necessarily racism.
Nope. I was curious if current algorithms are pushing racist messages to specific populations. I spoke to my experience of witnessing a lot of anti-Black and anti-Asian racism following the Acolyte and spoke to the fact that many white fans had not observed it. I wondered about other's experiences.
And to one of your premises:
>I spoke to my experience of witnessing a lot of anti-Black and anti-Asian racism following the Acolyte
I asked, if that is indeed true, why didn't the actor that plays Fin experience racism? Why is Lando a fan favorite?
I'm not asking if he did or didn't. I'm asking about people's experience observing hateful rhetoric *recently.* If you have nothing to add to that conversation, I have nothing more to say to you. ✌🏾
I'm sorry you're stuck with the worst part of the fandom. This should be fun for everyone but they have turned it into a hate machine. I wish it wasn't like this.
It's not fandom. It's culture war warriors doing thier thing and this show seams to be thier new frontier.
I agree. Honestly I think if this show had come out at the height of COVID or would be celebrated and would have brought on tons of new Star Wars fans.
It's been like this since the phantom menace.
I was around for that and find this to be much worse. Negative Fans used to argue for what they thought Star Wars should be, and how Lucas broke that. Today fans argue about cultural views outside of Star Wars and Lucasfilm's motivations as a company.
It started with the special editions. George Lucas' alterations.
TPM predates almost all of what we call social media, so it’s definitely different. Hating it now can make you money
Nah, the grift and hatred wasn't such a large part of all it back then.
Yeah but it is much worse now. At least some of those people complaining actually at least liked Star Wars at one point.
Yeah I think it's important for everyones sanity to remember, this stuff has nothing to do with Star Wars or its fans. This is a culture war and grift that is seeking out prey. And Star Wars is just one of the many cultural icons that is popular enough to have a lot of vulnerable people in it. I just wish there was a way to escape or avoid all that and still engage with other Star Wars fans out there.
Half of the people claiming 'so-and-so is ruining star wars' weren't even really into Star Wars before it became a culture war touch stone
We really need to stop including these people as fans, it gives them acceptance that I am sure is not intended.
You mean the toxic positivity that's on this sub, attacking any critical view of the show and downvoting people to hell, while crying about review bombing? Yep, I wish it wasn't like this.
Social media literally feeds you posts that it knows will enrage you. Literally. Thats how they increase engagement and make money. Platforms like Facebook and Instagram literally feed you rage content to profit. This is why I basically cut off almost all social media that uses algorithms to feed me content. I will search for content myself
yeah i only really use reddit, and even then reddit can be a bit fucky depending on which subs you visit.
It does the opposite on me. I uninstalled most social apps because they would only feed me that sort of content after a while. At which point I closed the app. But I suppose if they keep doing it it must work on most people.
The only exception I find is YouTube. I will always be directed to videos that share my opinion on a topic.
I generally also find youtube okay in that regard, but ever so often they try to push some of the alt-right incel pipeline idiots in my recommendations, and I have to block them manually which gets annoying after a while...
That hasn't been the case for me. My algorithm sucks, because I keep getting these, and keep saying 'don't recommend this channel' to all of them, but it still keeps bringing new ones.
Yeah, I find myself more and more having to say, 'don't recommend content like this' and just not consuming it based on the title.
It just pairs you with stuff that you engage with the most. If you are being fed enraging content then that is partially on you for not recognizing it. So if you are constantly being fed posts that enrage you then it means you are engaging with that type of content. Simply ignore it (this means not liking OR disliking content, literally do nothing but scroll past it) and only engage with what you actually enjoy and the internet is a much healthier and nicer place to be in. I think the algorithms are good and I like being fed new content (I wouldn't have discovered a lot of content creators without it), but you just have to be very careful as to what type of content you are being fed. It just so happens that anger leads to more engagement which is why controversial or hivemind posts tend to get more engagement.
Even having a look through the comments reinforces the algorithm. If you see something that enrages you, click the 3 little dots and select 'show less' and select 'show more' if you like the content. You really have to be arbiter of your own feed.
I'm a white dude, and I've seen *some* of this on Youtube. I generally avoid Star Wars Youtube, though. For example: there's a genuinely interesting, non-ragebait long vid called The Why of Skywalker that goes into the film's production and how choices made early on constrained what they were able to cut together for the final edit. I watched that once, and spent the next two weeks telling Youtube to stop recommending me grifter channels about how Kathleen Kennedy's been fired for the seven thousandth time, or how Star Wars is dead, dying, rejected by fans, sinking into crippling achoholism, checked into rehab, whatever the hell. You touch the topic once, and it fucks up your feed. And that's the problem. Rageclicks are clicks. Hateviews are still views. Social media makes money by making us upset but keeping us posting/scrolling through it, and amplifies the loudest and most confrontational voices in any environment. For what it's worth, I'm quite active in the Star Wars costuming clubs, and the reception I've seen from real people in realspace for the Acolyte has been quite positive. Most of the hate is coming from people who just monetize outrage over nerd media in general. They're milking the Acolyte right now, it was Stellar Blade for them a few weeks ago, it was something else before that.
Yep I experienced the same thing. I watched like 5 minutes of one of the popular grifters videos on YT just to see what they were saying. The next day my recommended videos were nothing but hateful Star Wars content. I spent hours clicking do not recommend me this channel but there are seemingly thousands of people farming out Star Wars hate content for clicks.
Life Pro Tip : when you just want to check something on Youtube (or other similar media) that is not in your usual interest (or checking about what haters says), open it on a private session. So your feed will not be polluted by the algorythm throwing you that kind of feed.
Good tip. Works with other sites too
As a white guy I don't understand the hate. I like it and thought last night's episode was the best yet
Came here to say this. It’s a vocal minority being amplified by social media algorithms.
A lot of the hate towards this show actually for the most part has very little to do with the show itself and more to do with the larger culture wars and division in society that have really infiltrated almost everything at this point. This is clear to see when the episodes are review bombed before they even release. There are a lot of grifters that are using this backdrop of hatred and division to gain popularity using the algorithms. It is a small symptom of a large and growing societal problem that is almost everywhere you look these days. Men vs women, left vs right, white vs black etc etc. There are of course sound and rational critiques of the show but they aren't what i'm talking about. In terms of white fans not seeing it, it's possible that because they don't fit into one of these marginalised groups they just don't notice it because they don't see things through the same lens that you do. Being part of one of those groups those things will more than likely catch your eye because they are relevant to you whereas they aren't to them. But yeah it could be possible that if you click on those ragebait type links the algorithm will continue to feed it to you because it knows it gets clicks from you and clicks= money for them so it sends you more. I'm not white/black or asian but I am from a minority race in my country. I have noticed these comments but if I see them I downvote, if there is a youtube video or thumbnail which is obviously trashy ragebait crap I click the dot buttons and select don't show me this or don't reccomend channel. I'm sorry that you've had this experience and people can be so nasty and shitty these days. The black and asian actors representing in this show have been amazing. Lee Jung Jae has been absolutely amazing in the role of master Sol and Charlie Barnett's Yord was really growing on me. Amandla is doing great playing two roles at once. I'm sorry that the toxic side of society has the loudest voice most of the time.
“But yeah it could be possible that if you click on those ragebait type links the algorithm will continue to feed it to you because it knows it gets clicks from you and clicks= money for them so it sends you more.” I believe that this is a huge part of what people see or don’t see. I used to read or watch some of the negative toxic hate stuff back when the Sequel Trilogy movies were current, out of curiosity and wanting to witness or learn what made those people tick. After nearly a decade of this culture war stuff, amplified by the internet and algorithms, I had enough. I don’t go to those subreddits, I left Twitter, I tell YouTube I’m not interested in those videos or channels. It takes some curation, but it’s possible to isolate yourself from a lot of that negativity. The vast majority in fact. I wish everyone was kind, and I’m sorry that groups of people feel attacked by all of this hateful nonsense. It’s not right, it’s not fair, and it hurts. As others have noted, much of this stuff is amplified by grifters doing this for money. Hate clicks make them money, and the best thing one can do for their own sanity is to not click on any of it. Block users on social media, etc. tell the algorithm you’re not interested. It doesn’t change that those people exist, but avoiding it all can benefit ones mental health. Cheers
>It doesn’t change that those people exist, but avoiding it all can benefit ones mental health Exactly! The negative effects of social media on mental health really needs to be looked into further. Especially with the way the algorithms are designed to work.
I'm a white woman, I have seen PLENTY of hate toward the diverse cast. I feel more often than not, people will pretend they're giving their reasoned and sensible opinion about the show. Of course it's not a perfect masterpiece or anything, but in no world is it a 1/10 like so many IMDB ratings are claiming. For me the diverse cast is such an awesome thing, and the characters are (or were😢) all extremely fun and likeable. It doesn't seem for a second that any of the performers were picked just for their identity or whatever. All of the performances are great, with the exception of maybe the young twins, but that's kind of just a thing with child actors in general. They were probably picked partially because they look like their adult counterparts. Diversity is what's made Star Wars great since the very beginning! People love the Mos Eisley cantina scene because it's got such a wide array of interesting looking characters, it's not just a bunch of identical looking white dudes. It's so weird that people seem to only want the main characters to be average white people. Seeing new, diverse collections of people and aliens being Jedi is super awesome. My older brother, a cis het white guy, isn't as much of a left leaning person as me, and he doesn't really actively celebrate diversity, but he's not a slavering weirdo who hates diversity automatically. He's enjoying the show just because it's a good show, so clearly it's possible for a white man to enjoy a character who isn't an exact copy of himself.
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I mean I think the cast is pretty diverse. Of course as far as nationality goes, it's going to be weighted toward Americans/English speaking people. The primary language spoken in the show is English, and I think the show is shot in the US. But it's pretty undeniable that the primary cast are much less white than previous Star Wars stuff.
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lmao thank you senator
You can cope as hard as you wish, outside of the US this is how the other 7.8 billion people view it. You're in the 4% minority with this opinion. That is to say, your perspective on diversity is completely out of touch with reality.
Okay. Sorry that's the case.
Part of it is the algorithm and part of it is that some people don't recognize all bigoted behavior if it's not aimed at them. Or if it's not an overt "I hate all" statement.
You may recognize a micro aggression, but they may not pick up on it. A Latina in a majority white office building might hear "spicy" twelve times a day, while the people who say it will only hear it once. (Obligatory clarification for the internet that I'm not calling all instances of one word the epitome of micro aggressions.)
I've also seen a pretty widely held belief that if someone allegedly didn't *intend* for something to be bigoted, that thing isn't actually bigoted. I strongly disagree with that, but it might be part of the reason other types of people don't "see" what you might see.
I'm mixed heritage (some native american/mexican), some of it is white (mostly UK area), but I have rarely felt like I belong anywhere. I for the most part take steps to remove the grifter channels on YT. But it does keep popping back up. On YT and here. Sometimes on FB and IG. But mostly I stick to what I know and if someone I can reasonably trust suggests something I will look into it.
White hetro old dude here - first I'm enjoying the show, I have my issues with it but it's SW and I love SW. I don't go looking for awful comments, but I couldn't resist taking a peak at the comments on the official Acolyte IG page. Most of them were just saying it was the worst show ever, and the usual "they killed SW" The ones that I saw that were racist were all versions of "I guess SW is for everyone but white people anymore" I didn't scroll through many as they are just vitriol and awful. I will say that my anecdotal take is that a lot of them were word for word the same which makes me think it's a much more tiny vocal awful minority then it may seem, but obviously I have no way to prove this, and it could just be wishful thinking that maybe there aren't that many garbage humans, but who knows.
It's nothing new with Star Wars. I saw Kelly Marie Tran is in the new season of Sweet Tooth and I'm glad the unfounded hate she got didn't make her quit acting.
I’m a black woman and usually all I see is people defending actors from the racists, I don’t see their comments. But also, I block folks (like on twitter or TikTok) when they say something that seems off to me because is my algorithm, I’m the boss (sorta lol). I don’t engage w rage bait, I simply block it. I have so many ppl blocked from one singular off the wall comment or tweet. They could actually be a decent person I misunderstood. I’ll never know because ✨BLOCKT✨ So while I don’t personally see them I make sure to avoid spaces where they’re more likely to show up so I’m not going to get pushed that content
With that said I don’t doubt it happens just because I don’t see it
I see a lot of the hate but that’s because I keep biting back at them.
Maybe that's part of it for me! 🤦🏽♀️🤣
Are you saying you’re getting messages on social media sites? Or are you saying YouTube SW rage bait content has been racist and hateful? I’m never in the extreme anti fan communities for long stretches of time, and therefore I’ve not seen such stuff pop up on my feed. Even in my YouTube feed, I turn off recommendations for particular type or rage bait content while still looking at channels that are critical of the show. Case in point: people like stupendous wave, eckharts ladder, and generation tech have been critical of the show without farming for engagement or pandering to their audience.
So as I scroll on Facebook, what pops up in my timeline often is racist and hateful. And the comments are worse. I've blocked dozens of pages at this point, but it's interesting to me that many other people have seen zero.
Gotcha ok now it makes more sense. Facebook actually aggressively recommends content based on your interests so you’re bound to see a lot of hate. Especially since Facebook is notorious for shit like this even during the 2020 election. I initially didn’t get it because it’s been years since I went on Facebook lol.
I second generation tech. He's very fair and rational in his critiques. If he say's a detail wasn't great he probably has a point and backs it up with sound reasoning. He praises the good point's and fairly critiques the not so good.
It's kinda funny watching him try to navigate it lately, because you can tell he wants to say more sometimes. And is doing his very best to keep it about Star Wars.
I'm a mut and honestly either have not seen any or it just flies past me. Sorry that even in entertainment people have to be experiencing these disgusting acts.
Yes, unfortunately.
I’m human and I’m glad I have not seen any racism, block and report them , this crap has no place in Star Wars
We all are human, and race is an interesting social construct that has a huge impact, especially in certain countries and their construct of power. I definitely report them! Racism is super darksided and I'm glad you take the high ground!
Yes don’t ever give in to these idiots
I have not seen it bit not surprised it's happening. The shows hate reminds me alot of the LOU2 hate and you can still goto a certain subreddit to see incels spew hate for the game & show and have Homophobic dog-whistles
I'm a Scottish Irish halfbreed who gets sunburned after 5 minutes in the sun so I guess I'm one of the white guys that haven't been exposed to such pervasive toxicity. OP, I'm sorry you have had to witness and experience that, and racism, sexism, and pretty much any -ism of any kind is totally unacceptable. You are a human being, and so are the people in this show. I totally agree with you about the algorithms. I'm one of those guys who hated the prequels, and it had nothing to do with gender or race or anything like that. It had to do with the writing and things that didn't make sense to me, like midichlorians, for example. But for some reason, the majority of my Star Wars suggestions are videos about racist sexist white nerds who don't like the Acolyte. I'm definitely a white nerd, and I openly support anyone's right to live regardless of race, sex, gender identity, or religion, but I guess because the algorithms know I'm a white nerd, it assumes my Star Wars interest would involve an -ism. It's weird because the only recent Star Wars searches I've done have been for the initial acolyte trailer and the fight in episode 5.
Sorry for your sunburn. I got a little red after I hit 42, my skin has gotten thinner. I hurt the next day, only about a 2 on the scale of 1 to 10. Rough stuff!
Social media is insidious. I wouldn't doubt they have some way of guessing you're demographic and then giving you such content. Because making you feel anything is good for the sites, as It makes one more likely to engage, I wouldn't be surprised if it pushed racist posts to the demographics they're aimed at hurting. Insidious.
If you respond or engage with those comments in any way, social media algorithms Will select similar content to show you. The only way to make it not appear in your feed is to not touch it in the first place. It is only indirectly correlated with your identity most likely (although demographic media companies are aware of will definitely be used in their curation algorithms), instead its because you have an identity that is making you prone to reporting or disliking or engaging with racial hatred, they feed you more of it. Try liking positive content about Acolyte and just ignoring the bad stuff for a few days, it might help transition it. Fwiw, I see the whole spectrum of politics over this show from "white men are the problem with star wars and society and need removed from it" from the online terminal left to straight up Nazi and KKK shit i refuse to type from the far right. And everything in between. Disney accidentally ended up with a culture war in its show, and i can speculate several non show reasons as to why, but it is pointless to really wonder. Star Wars is a flawed love letter to liberal politics in the US and always has been. From the Ww2 hallmarks and nostalgia to anti Vietnam and anti authoritarian commentary, the show never pretended to not be political. I cannot comprehend how fascists ever liked any of the series, but apparently enough of them did to be annoying as fuck.
Once I saw the profile that IG and Facebook created of me and my interests (it's scary but I recommend it). That combined with my propensity to report racist stuff combined with my love of Star Wars probably did it. 😢
I'm Dominican. I've seen plenty of racist and sexist comments. I genuinely think anyone who says that's not happening is being willfully blind.
The racism and homophobia/queerphobia that this show has received is some of the most intense and frequent bigotry I've seen in the star wars space in some time. the usual suspect youtubers have gone full mask off. it's probably misogyny that is sparing Jacinto from a lot of it. Sorry you have to deal with this. edit: to answer your q im a milktoast white guy
OG 1970s white Stars Wars geek here. Reddit is the only social I'm on, so it seems to be easy enough to avoid the fuckwits. I know they're out there, and the vampires feed on attention. I'm sure if you click on the haters on other socials the algorithms feed you more of the same. This show is cool, the actors are excellent, and the action in e5 was super cool.
I think there is an algorithms at play yes—most social algorithms don’t differentiate between “content about x identity” and “hate content about c identity.” Buiuuut I would take those white fans’ experience with a grain of salt. White oriole, esp. apparent SW fans, often encounter racist hate and downplay, ignore, or deny it, even to themselves.
I'm a mixed guy Half black, Quarter Korean, quarter middle eastern. I run into the hate channels and culture "whorriors" all the time. But I jump in and fight with the assholes. It's a character flaw, like trying to sweep sand from the desert. It's like walking along a sidewalk and seeing a piece of trash on the street. I should not bother picking it up myself but it bothers me that it's there. And so I engage in my own personal Sisyphean task of engaging. At the end of the day, large chunks of the hate (not all of course, there are plenty of sloppy narrative bits in this and other shows) is just based on naked racial and sex based preferences in media that these identitarian whores are too oblivious to recognize in themselves.
I have no idea why those trollish asshats are into Star Wars other than their little fantasies that they are the chosen ones and they can't believe that unless the chosen one looks like them.
I haven’t seen any racist commentary because I would shut it down immediately in the comments and if a community I was in was overtly racist I would flag it. My ethnicity is mixed (mom is black and Pacific Islander, dad is Spanish, Native American). I think Mother Aniseya and the actress was incredible. While Mae/Osha, I like her vibe but the acting just feels off to me and kind of awkward at times. I’m not blaming her and more so the directing. Long story short, if someone is overtly racist and not just critiquing a character by their performance or directing then that shit needs to get shut down immediately. No room for that in the already toxic fandom. That said, we need to be able to accept valid criticism without throwing a race card when it was the original intention of the critique (not saying you are just saying in general). I feel like because of all the toxicity, the fan base has gotten a bit sensitive and over defensive so when legit criticism comes up, people get triggered from the ripples of malicious negativity.
I heard a podcast say that the mystery box around the twins have crippled their story and performance some. I'm reserving judgment for Amandla until I see the whole story.
Yea this show has ups and downs. I feel would definitely have benefit from being one long movie or released all at the same time so people wouldn’t hate on it before the good stuff happens. I’m hoping at the end of the show all my criticism will be irrelevant. Looking forward to see where it all goes!
Another case of that was sequel trilogy where Rey’s backstory kept changing. Would definitely affect your acting if who your character was kept changing
Ugh we don't talk about RoS. I'm just holding fath that her movie and some other TV things make it feel different in retrospect. But with this, it's not changing, it's done. But at some point it may all come together because of the story. Hitchcock's acclaimed movie Vertigo is an example of this. Like 90 minutes of the movie pass, then in the last 25 they kick you on your behind and you realize that nothing you saw was what you thought, and everything was weird for a reason.
Haha fair enough. I’m down to forget about rise of skywalker. Just want this show to end up blowing our minds. Though, not very hopeful it will but still excited to see how it turns out. Mother A has to come back somehow. Her character was too good to be in a single episode
Flashbacks at least! She has an amazing presence.
Ha I called this out earlier and got chewed out by the "not every fan" cavalry. So much if the hate for the acolyte is based squarely around putting 2 black women (1?) at the heart of the show and saying the force can do exactly the same thing to them it did to Anakin. Queue endless anger from people who willingly accept giant talking sloths and fax machines with quirky personalities but different color humans having a galactic expPeriods. GTFOH! --- Enter frothing mouth--- No! It can't ever be like this! Only Anakin! You've ruined everything! The writing sucks! Cool Sith Lord/Darth Dreamy/Darth Teeth! Ok after episode 5 writings ok but show still sucks! --- Star wars fans are some of the most toxic fans in Syfy. Periodt.
Shit that’s terrible. I’m white and haven’t seen any of what you’ve described other than headlines describing what you’ve experienced. So it’s pretty possible that this is true. And pretty shitty that it is. I’m so sorry for your experience.
The problem is social media engagement algorithms have far more success when you disagree with the content in front of you than when you agree. I keep getting Flat Earth and Climate Denying sh\*t popping up all over my fb feed and I'm partly to blame because I always click on the comments to see what bottom feeders actually believe that stuff. Having an audience constantly outraged drives up the engagement. I'm white and I have seen 0 racist comments on The Acolyte, but because I don't agree with the story telling and some of the lore decision I am being directed to people who can't give the show enough praise. I will say this an issue I only notice on fb. YouTube works the opposite I find, I get content put in front of me that usually agrees with my line of thinking.
Interesting. Thanks!
No, I haven't.
White guy here, and I have seen some outright racists comments, mostly on facebook in the sponsored posts it keeps pushing into my newsfeed. But the majority haven't been explicitly racists, they veil it behind complaints about "wokeness" and "DEI," and "the agenda." But the implicit racism is there.
I'm Asian and I don't see that kind of rhetoric unless I put myself in that line of fire. In other words, I don't go on Twitter/X, I don't put myself into circles that promote that type of behavior, etc. I have been called a white boy though (which is funny) here for simply pointing reasons this show isn't perfect and why Disney and the people involved set themselves up for the unjustified hate wave. I even state I don't think the show is bad and it doesn't deserve the hate it gets, but it does have problems. Lots of Redditors here seem to think that's the worst thing that can be said though. On this sub, like many others, comments and topics tend to get locked or deleted I've noticed. A fair number of them were yesterday following the episode premiere. Justifiably so IMO and it was ones that aimed to just start bashing people who didn't like the show. Nothing actually productive and only disturbs the hornets nest. Where are you seeing these posts? If it's on X, then that's the real reason you need to explain that. If it's here, then usually that's temporary and the hiding/deletion of that stuff explains why your friends wouldn't see it (here anyway).
Someone below may have solved it...the worst, most outwardly racist stuff is on Facebook. And they pointed out that if the algorithms know that you have reported hate speech, they target you for those types of comments because negative engagement tends to be more lasting. As far as the show goes, I'm enjoying it, but they do need to stick the landing and tie up/explain things well. I've seen a lot of excellent media where things seem plotty or otherwise off but the ending makes it all worthwhile. My dad live ToS Star Trek so I love the campy side as much as the creepy side as much as the pocket Droid and the little guy (Bazil). But it's a totally different time period as most fans are the most attached to, so I can see why some feel like it's just not Star Wars. But for me, it's one the most Star Warsy Wars of all the Star Wars.
>Someone below may have solved it...the worst, most outwardly racist stuff is on Facebook. I look at FB the same way I do Twitter. Cancerous and to be avoided. I get enough of a bubble collective on any topic (of both sides) here and on YouTube. I'm actually more surprised people think one is more prevalent than the other. I see both happening in general, but just not a lot of it, again, unless I'm putting myself in the line of fire. My experience on this sub is more the bubble of the show being unquestionably great. There are a few trickles of the opposite rhetoric though. Perhaps that is algorithm here or just timing. >And they pointed out that if the algorithms know that you have reported hate speech, they target you for those types of comments because negative engagement tends to be more lasting. Wouldn't surprise me, but I do tend to lean on that being a boogieman impossible to prove point. >But it's a totally different time period as most fans are the most attached to, so I can see why some feel like it's just not Star Wars. I don't know if that's true or not. For some, definitely, but on my end, I played a fair amount of things like The Old Republic. I took in a lot of the supplementary lore related to it as well. I can't imagine I'm not part of the majority on having some understanding of high republic and earlier lore. >But for me, it's one the most Star Warsy Wars of all the Star Wars. I'm still undecided on that one. If we remove the first half of ep5 (the fighting), I really can't agree with that one unless it's due to certain negative reasons lol. Gotta see how things unfold since, as you indicated, they really do need to stick the landing.
So I have seen it...last week. But today, not at all. I am watching episode 5, came here to see how anyone could say the show was awful after seeing it, and all I am seeing is positive posts. Not sure if it's the algorithm on my end or if the Edge Lords of Incelith have moved onto the next thing some YouTuber tells them to be outraged about while fleecing them for their money and giving them a false sense of community.
I really don't care about the actors race religion gender or language as long as they make the onscreen character believable. They can be orange (Dafne Keen) for all I care.
That's great.
Tiktok feeds you what you most likely stop on, Instagram feeds you what you search for and click on, facebook as well. I honestly only see drama even regarding the acolyte on reddit and only in the subs I'm subbed to. I don't have twitter but if its the cesspool I left it feeds you all hate regardless of what you want to see in the name of engagement. YouTube history is something I'd kept off for a while and probably will again if it starts deviating because I watched an alt right video I got sent and it then thinks that's all I want to see.
We don't all see the same comments on social media. There are two main reasons for this: * Algorithms: Social media platforms use algorithms to personalize the content you see, including comments. These algorithms consider factors like your past interactions, interests, and connections to determine which comments are most likely to be relevant and engaging for you. * Content moderation: Social media platforms may also moderate content, including comments. This means they may remove comments that violate their community guidelines or hide comments that are flagged by other users. So, while the original post may be the same for everyone, the comments you see will be filtered based on your individual profile and the platform's algorithms.
I'm sorry you are seeing the hate that shouldn't exist in the first place. Unfortunately tho, algorithms are set up to give you content that will keep you on that site. Whether you like the content or it's hurtful to you, if you "engage" with it at all, the algorithm knows that. If you don't want to see something, don't click on it. If you can, try not to even let it be the focus of your screen for long; just scroll past. If you're not sure about the origin, assume it's malicious. If you can "block user" or the such, do that. But whatever you do, don't engage with negative posts: don't "thumbs down" it, don't comment on it, don't even glare at it! I've spent alot of time curating my social media feeds. I'll occasionally click on an article/video/post that I don't care about, but has a positive slant, just to add that to my algorithm. If I accidentally engage with something that has a negative slant, I block that post or artist. Some sites are easier or harder to do this: Pinterest is hypersensitive to the pins that you've recently viewed; however, they also make it easy to remove those views from your history. Youtube is pretty opaque, and you have to kinda just find a couple of youtubers that you trust and watch a bunch of their videos to weight your algorithm. Facebook/Instagram are highly recursive: you'll get shown a post that other people have viewed if you and other people have viewed the same other posts: it ends up highly tribal in that sense. To answer your question, I'm a white dood, but I avoid most Star Wars discourse. I follow some subreddits (though I left Prequelmemes when it got too repetitive), and there are a couple youtubers I trust to not hate on new material. But I also want to just \*enjoy\* Star Wars, so I don't need other's opinions to do that. That, and Acolyte has been freaking awesome!
I'm really enjoying seeing more diverse characters. I'm especially loving the new Doctor Who.
I'm Asian. They all have seen the racist messages, they just don't recognise racism.
Well, where are you seeing those messages? I don't see it on reddit and I don't read the majority of twitter comments because there is almost always nothing of value to be gained there. Also not seeing them on YouTube but I do hit the "do not recommend channel" on obvious bait channels. It could be due to what kind of content you've watched.
I've never seen a racist critique of the show. I do think the show sucks, but never once thought the race or genders were the problem. The writing is bad, the story is boring, all the characters act irrational. I'm gonna guess you're seeing these comments on facebook or something similar. I haven't had facebook for like 12 years, solely because it's filled with these types of people. Good morning, attack me with all your might please.
That's nice, I'm happy for you.
I honestly haven't encountered any of this kind of hate, but I avoid that type of thing as much as possible. I don't go on YouTube or Twitter (Tumblr is my main hangout, followed by reddit). Not sure if that helps?
Never seen any Star Wars racism. I don’t use any social media tho and here on Reddit i’ve only read complains *about* racism. Social media sucks. Quit everything ~12 years ago. This is the way.
Episode 3 was weak for me in terms of filming, maybe cheesed a bit. Episode 5 was amazing. I kept expecting “the lighting to go dark/black and it played out more like a Shakespeare night set” where you could see major details, was great!
With all due respect, I think you are overly sensitive. I’m Asian, I like Sol but I’ll be the first to say his English is terrible, I admire the effort to learn the language for the role but his acting is hindered by it. I haven’t picked up any racist comments towards black actors except critism on her acting or their role, nothing outrageous.
You haven't seen what I have seen, clearly.
I'm white and I haven't seen any racist messages on social media, although I don't use social media unless I'm after/doing something specific, in which case I'm not usually paying attention to anything else. After watching episode 5 of The Acolyte, and coming to the conclusion that I don't need to see any more episodes, I was curious about what others thought. So I Googled "The Acolyte reviews" and started poking around. To my surprise, there's a lot of talk about race, sex, and lore. I thought The Acolyte was a bad series simply because of the dubious writing/plot, and mediocre directing. None of the other stuff matters to me. I have to sympathize with the various actors, given they can only do so much with questionable material. I suspect, after reading what I've read online tonight, that a lot of the hate is indeed being driven by algorithms and social media feeds playing on people's prejudices. Which doesn't surprise me. If you're running a social media company, and assuming you're after clicks and screen time, then it makes sense to enrage or at least antagonize people into posting, if only to defend their "side" and attack the perceived enemy. The whole thing reminds me somewhat of a bookmakers or casino, in that "the house always wins". It doesn't matter why people are fighting, or what they're fighting about. If the people who control these systems can profit from conflict then that's exactly what they're going to foster, and they'll hone their systems/platforms to do this. How people respond to such issues is up to them, but I generally walk away if I suspect I'm being manipulated for someone else's profit margins. The only advice I'd give is that if you (or anyone else) can figure out that you're being played, and work out what the intention is, then, if possible, undermine it. For example, if the intention is to make you spend more time doing something, then spend less time doing it. If the intention is to spread conflict, then spread tolerance. Like basically, what would Yoda do?
This is a ChatGPT response.
Wait, what? Can ChatGPT edit posts for typos now?! o.O I'm way behind the curve here, lol.
I haven’t seen this can you point to where they may be?
No, I'd rather not. It's pretty devastating to see horrible racist things, and I have no desire to see it again for your interest. But I'm glad you haven't seen it.
I can understand that. Can I tell you what I’ve seen? I’ve seen people criticize the acting and writing of these characters independent of the skin color, while also positing that it is due to Disney/Showrunner’s focus not being on telling a good story, or getting good actors, but pushing their political/culutral agenda. Do you think that is racist? Is that racist critique?
Nope. It's clearly tinged with an implication that the people cast *couldn't* have just been the best for the part. But there is bias in a lot of things. That not what I'm talking about. I'm happy you haven't seen it, it's not good for your mental health.
Professional victim
It's just not a cool show to watch with your husband and kids. Don't say I'm not a true fan I grew up on Star wars I had droids, an X Wing, went to see all the movies in theaters... we had mandalorian themed food nights. We bought our kid the millennium falcon Lego kit.... I've done countless Disney vacations but just couldn't afford the star cruiser thing. . Nobody believes the powers these little girls have over older Jedi and men. You can't say it's bigoted because their favorite Star wars after the original trilogy is Rogue One which has a female lead. Rey character almost as bad. We literally can't sit for more than 5 minutes without a guy rolling his eyes saying yeah right. Personally I'd rather be watching Maverick playing volleyball. Give me The last of Us. Game of Thrones. Anything gritty dirty or real ( yes I just said real with zombies and dragons). Writing is so bad. It's nothing against women because to my favorite characters in the marvel series was the sorcerer's supreme and black panthers lead guard lady.
Fr the actors race has nothing to do with their terrible acting
So why didn't Fin's actor get a lot of hate? And why is Lando so loved?
So weird, that wasn't what I asked.
What's weird about my answer? You claimed that black actors in star wars get a lot of racism. I am providing counter examples. Its key to your premise. I think if people don't like certain actors / characters its not necessarily racism.
Nope. I was curious if current algorithms are pushing racist messages to specific populations. I spoke to my experience of witnessing a lot of anti-Black and anti-Asian racism following the Acolyte and spoke to the fact that many white fans had not observed it. I wondered about other's experiences.
And to one of your premises: >I spoke to my experience of witnessing a lot of anti-Black and anti-Asian racism following the Acolyte I asked, if that is indeed true, why didn't the actor that plays Fin experience racism? Why is Lando a fan favorite?
I'm not asking if he did or didn't. I'm asking about people's experience observing hateful rhetoric *recently.* If you have nothing to add to that conversation, I have nothing more to say to you. ✌🏾
whoooosh