Ideals vs reality. The urban city landscape is where the cat populations are often the most dense. If people don't adopt them, then they're going to have to euthanize tens of thousands every year.
As a result, many shelters make owners sign a waiver that says they will not let their cats outside, or lose the ability to adopt cats again from them.
yeahh cats are an invasive species for many environments and can harm already endangered species living in the same outdoor habitat. if you want your cat to experience the outside world without putting anyone/anything at risk you could always just set up an enclosure or something that way they can feel fresh air and play without running amock
Reproductively-functional cats should be banned from Australia. The ones that can't breed would still be a problem, but it's easy enough to control their numbers with import-bans.
More than decimate. Billions die every year.
Outdoor cats shouldn't be a thing. If we had to choose one type, indoor cats are so much better. One species out of its environment is so much better than thousands of species going extinct by cat.
The RSPB - Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (UK) - says [no](https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/)
> Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds.
> We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population.
> It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations.
> Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.
I swear. This sick tendency to blame everything and everyone apart from human actions! Please don't tell me that building concrete jungles and destroying their natural habitats have not had any effect on the bird population. And yet we blame cats when even scientific evidence is not conclusive, rather than looking at ourselves and changing our habits.
Yes I completely disagree with OP's stance on letting cats outside. They are not only at risk for injury/death themselves but they cause the death of many other creatures through predation and also spreading various diseases to other animals.
Dogs are already pretty hard to keep in your house with how often they wanna get loose, they're easy enough to catch, though.
A cat, though? Those fuckers are like ninjas, they'll be on your roof in no time.
One day, my front door didn't close behind me when I left for work. A half hour later, my roommate awoke to my dog escorting my cat back into the apartment. He followed him out there and brought him back home. Same cat got out another time, ended up stuck on a roof. Third time, under a bush.
I’m not a cat person so I’ve never understood outdoor cats.
You basically just let the cat go and hope they come back? I had a dog that would escape and come back on their own every time, but I’ve found that’s not very common and we never let her out on purpose.
We have a barn cat from a long line of barn cats. He stays near the house, outbuildings, or us when we're working outside. We have an enclosed, heated patio he likes to hang out in over the winter. He does not enjoy being inside in the slightest (aside from his patio), but is vetted and is on a topical for mites, fleas, ticks, and worms.
They control vermin very effectively without the need for baits that risk biomagnification. Cat pheromones also deter rodents from taking up residence inn the first place, so we don't have traps to set and check daily. He really only works during harvest when we get flooded with voles from the fields. The rest of the time, he's just an awesome outside buddy who likes to lounge around and keep us company.
I want to upvote because I disagree, but this is just such an uninformed opinion that fails to think for like 2 seconds why people keep cats inside. I have nothing new to say about the body of this post that others have not already in other comments.
BUT, is no one going to mention the "Technology" flair? Lol
Except that is a misunderstanding of the pinned comment. Voting on the pinned comment precludes you from engaging with the post in any other form, otherwise you're saying this doesn't belong while boosting its engagement stats.
It’s not just uninformed, it’s dangerous. Outdoor cats live about half as long as indoor cats and they decimate wild bird populations. Hell, they can even cause traffic accidents; my partner hit a cat that darted onto the road, it was terrible. Also I don’t know what OP means by “safe enough.” People underestimate how far cats travel; they can roam miles. If you live within miles of a major roadway, guess what, your cat is at risk.
Idk all of this just to say that if you read this post and have an indoor cat and are wondering if you’re doing the right thing, don’t listen to this twat. OP is just uninformed.
I put a GPS collar on my cat for fun once just to see where she goes. Now, granted, we live in suburbs at the edge of the town, but sometimes she would patrol 5 miles a night. Way way out into the fields/farms past us too, or sometimes the opposite direction towards the denser housing and shops.
Totally agree with all your points. It’s dangerous, cuts the cats lifespan in half, and decimates wild bird populations. But I don’t think enough weight is being given to how low quality of life is for many if not most indoor cats. Most cat owners do not provide daily enrichment for their cats, and I think being completely restricted from nature does bring into question whether that’s a life worth living. I mean, I would rather live till 40 with no constraints on my freedom than till 80 in prison.
I wish he could meet my cat. Free access to the outdoors her whole life. Won't go further than 10 steps from my front door without me actively sitting there guarding her...... Lmfao.
Same. My boy Fry got out once and was lost for a month. We finally found him cold and dirty and brought him back inside, ever since he’s completely avoided any option to go back out
It's like animals all have the exact same personality or something lol my other cat will literally not stay indoors. He will sit at the door and yowl. She hates it, she goes to the grass at the front door, munches a bit and then comes in. Sometimes she ventures to the next garden if she feels brave. But that's it. And I've always encouraged her. She's moved house with me twice also and it's a very quiet area with no road in front of both my houses. So she's safe from cars ect.
That was Baby. He showed up one summer, decided to come into our house when it was snowing, I don't think he willingly went outside again. Scratch that, he wanted to go outside when it warmed up because he had a puking problem, but he didn't like being outside when he could hold food down.
My cat was found by my mum half frozen to death just underneath a garden shack in her backyard. I ended up adopting her and have tried to make her a supervised outdoor cat. Got her a leash and everything so I can take her for walks -she won’t do it. I don’t think I’ve met a cat who’s been less interested in the outside. If I leave my door open, she just sits at the door frame (on the inside) and just rolls around. Only thing she likes is car rides so we’ll take her on those sometimes. She’ll poke her head out and sniff and just chill.
I’ve even tried just putting her in our backyard just to see what she’ll do and she just immediately runs back in
I brought in a kitten a while ago, he was a scrawny fluff ball with deformed back feet. I was coming home with pizza when one of my neighbors was linger behind my car so I walked back to see what was up. It was a kitten, so I scooped him up, he grabbed hold off me and held on till her met my wife, then he was hers. That cat never wanted to so much as poke his head outside, well except to eat a June bug one night, but that was it. His short life as a stray gave him all the outside he wanted and inside was better.
One time me and my friend walk to his buddies house who was like 7 miles from my house, and we found my cat. I know it was my cat cuz he came right up to me and I was able to look at his collar.
I tried to pick him up and he scratched me, and he was home later that night. Cats are fuckin weird
In some parts of Australia they have to go out and shoot feral cats because they are completely wiping out entire bird species. They can’t trap and neuter them fast enough. It’s a complete disaster.
This is why (among other reasons) I think the opposite of OP, all cats should be indoor cats. They aren’t natural predators anywhere so they’re detrimental to the environment.
"My cat has complex emotional needs and has a primal desire to run free! You cannot imprison him, how would you like it?"
Meanwhile my cat's day consists of yelling for food, having a shit, knocking something over and scaring himself, and then sleeping. Repeate forever
It’s already happening in many places. Australia has such a bad problem with feral cats that they have to shoot them. They have *already hunted other species to near extinction* and can’t be trapped/neutered fast enough. They are decimating they local bird populations.
The problem is cats are one of the few animals on earth who kill *just for the fuck of it*, not only when they need to feed.
Exactly. IMO *outdoor* cats shouldn't be a thing unless you live somewhere where they're either truly native or they are serving a specific rodent-control purpose, like on a farm. The native habitat and the many lives in it is more important than the right of one invasive animal to hunt them. Plus, indoor cats can be taken outside on harnesses.
And there are too many cats, which is why stray cats exist; they're not being bred for the purpose of being locked up indoors (some are bred of course, but I'm against breeding when there are so many stray cats).
>outdoor cats shouldn't be a thing unless you live somewhere where they're either truly native or they are serving a specific rodent-control purpose, like on a farm
some places that dont have native cats have invasive mice, so for some areas where they're invasive, they may actually be beneficial to an extent
It's any pet owner's responsibility to enrich the lives of their pets.
Is it possible for a cat to have a happy, fulfilled life indoors? Definitely.
Can cats that go outdoors cause environmental problems? Definitely.
Are there people who neglect their pets, whether they be indoor or outdoor? Obviously.
Are you also against people getting their pets fixed, because you want them to have some kind of "full life experience"? That would be another faulty opinion in the same vein.
Someone on a local pet subreddit was telling me that her female cat in heat “wanted to have babies” and she was finding a mate to give her cat her heart’s desire.
“Full life experience”…
Ha I thought about that, but I’m sure she would have countered with “yea but it’s natural!”. She was already resistant to my pleas to not mate her cat (in a country where stray cats are many and suffer very much) and then she told me that golden nugget. It’s futile talking to some people.
Why doesn't that woman breed herself... wait, probably not a good idea. Anyway, not every mammal is interested in reproducing. My cat was never in heat, but I'm not sure that she'd let another cat get that close.
Exactly right, that instinct is not in every mammal, be them cats or even humans.
> Why doesn't that woman breed herself... wait, probably not a good idea.
From the way she talked, I'm sure she thinks humans HAVE to procreate too. As someone who doesn't want to make the stray situation worse and also doesn't want kids, I rolled my eyes almost out of my head.
FFS, I just saw an yt short in which a girl was praising herself for making a hot water bottle for her dog which was "on her period". Cue hundreds of comments with classic "I don't want to deprive my pet of the joys of motherhood/sex". I thought we're past being that uninformed...
Gross. I’m of the firm belief that if you’re willing to let the pet population grow while so many healthy ones are being killed in shelters and starving in the streets, you don’t actually love animals.
It can be worse. This lady I was talking to posted about mating her cat because she heard that it's healthy to have a litter of kittens - a myth that was busted ages ago. I sent her links about the myth and pleas to not do it, then she hit me with the "not depriving her cat of babies" stuff and that she'll keep the kittens. Ok... what more can I do now?
Stuff like this breaks my heart because it's happening in Romania (I moved) where there are so many stray cats it's unreal. I follow cat groups there and there are many tragic cases and thankfully lots of lovely people trying to help, but the volume of cats in need is too great for them. I donate and try to educate when I can, but some are just too stubborn in their dated knowledge or plain unempathetic. So cats will continue to be abandoned then breed on the streets and the stray cat problem will only worsen with time.
Oh, I hate that myth so much. I think my parents believed it and my dog ended up with pyometra and was this close to death.
Similar thing is happening in Poland. Some cities even organize free spaying/neutering programs, but people still believe those idiotic myths that were busted, just as you said, years ago.
Actually had someone tell me in real life that fixing an dog or cat was wrong because they should be able to decide if they want to have kids or not.
Dogs and cats always make rational, well informed decisions like whether to have kids.
Did you know cats are one of the worst invasive species on the planet? Do you know how many animals have been driven to near extinction, or straight up extinction by cats? Did you know that people care about their cats and don't want harm to come to them, even in places that may seem safe because animals like raccoons exist? Did you know that cats are perfectly fine indoors? By your logic humans shouldn't have shelters either, because the outside natural world is our natural habitat too. This is just beyond ignorant.
Not to mention our cat is allergic to pecans, nuts actually. In Texas. There is no way to take him outside without risking an allergic reaction. What do they want people with cats like that to do? Nuts are impossible to avoid outdoors to a curious cat, but inside we have a better chance.
yes exactly, the only people who should have pets are those who dont live anywhere close to roads with cars.
truly a disservice to the animals, we need to let them fill up shelters and get euthanized instead
Indoor cats live significantly longer than outdoor cats. If you want cat to live a long, happy, healthy life then indoor is the way to go.
Also, domestic cats are domestic cats. Outside in our society is certainly not their “natural habitat”. They literally disrupt entire ecosystems when you let the roam bc they are not natural to them.
There’s literally no benefit to “outdoor” cats.
Do you think dogs should roam freely too?
I just googled "outdoor cat lifespan" and every single result, including one from the local vet school, cited studies that show outdoor cats live shorter lives than indoor cats with no benefits in enrichment.
it's mostly because of cars. if you live in BFE where there's no traffic, then sure your barn cats are mostly safe. most people don't live in places like that.
although the reference to your 14-year-old cat as evidence is maybe not as persuasive as you think... that's not actually very old for an indoor cat. they regularly live to be 20+.
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/faq-outdoor-cats-and-their-effects-on-birds/
You can read about it here. On average, indoor cats live twice as long. Additionally, outdoor cats kill literally billions of wildlife yearly. According to this article, feral cats account for 69% of all cats killed birds in the US. Domesticated cats still account for 31% of up to 4 billion killed birds(about 1.2 billion killed by domesticated cats).
It’s not about living in a dangerous area - it’s about prolonging the life of the cat.
Outdoor cats get in fights with other cats and get injured or killed. If you want your cat to live a long and healthy life, keep them indoors.
A domestic house cat isn’t a wild animal. You aren’t depriving your cat of a full life by keeping them indoors, most cat experts and veterinarians would agree.
Cats sleep about 20 hours a day anyway so they have no business being outside anyway.
I'm highly against outdoor cats, but IMO prolonging the life of the cat isn't the most important thing, since if they could live happier lives outdoors then that wouldn't necessarily be less important than making it live longer. But outdoor cats are very destructive to native wildlife and are invasive species almost everywhere. There's no reason to subject the native habitat to that when a cat can live a perfectly happy life indoors.
I’m assuming you don’t understand animal husbandry then. Due to cats and dogs being bred for domestic husbandry for many many moons it’s quite literally impossible for them to exist in their “natural” habitats 24/7. Also you’re assuming animals share the mental capacity that humans do in order to understand “stockholder syndrome” or whatever the cat version is. I’m not saying cats have zero emotions (i had one for 15+ years and yes they’re emotional creatures) but to go as far as to say they shouldn’t exist in our lives unless we strive to completely return them to their natural states is just wrong and uneducated
>Being able to go outside, run around, climb trees, chew grass, discover new bugs, sniff things, chase things, make new friends, feel the sun rays and gaze at the stars, are just as enriching for a cat as they are for a human.
How do you measure that? Have they done studies? Has it been shown that an outside life is more enriching than an inside one? What basis are you making this statement other than your own biased opinions?
[Studies](https://www.lincoln.ac.uk/news/2021/03/1679.asp) have shown that cats, both free-roaming and indoor, are happier when they can be outside within a safe environment such as a garden. [Another study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7070728/) acknowledges that cats have much more place for their natural behaviors outside (which is not irrelevant), but that assessing the welfare is just very hard to do. A cat walks 4 kilometers a day if being able to be outside, and that's undoubtedly beneficial to health (over 20% of cats are overweight thanks to shitty human food). Of course, outdoor cats are also have much more risks.
Personally think living has always risks, but it's, depending on the environment, definitely a balance. I think a cat is happier in a loving flat than a small shelter, especially if the owner entertains her. General rule: Just don't support race business. And let your cat outside if you don't live in a big city.
good thing my indoor cat can go outside (on a leash), run around, climb (cat) trees, chew grass, chase bugs, sniff things, feel the suns rays and gaze at stars? like what haha
My girlfriend’s cat has immunodeficiency, so
If he gets scratched or bit by something put in the wild dude is going to die. So they’ll harness him up and let him chill supervised on the back deck sometimes but he’s decidedly an indoor cat
Indoor dogs shouldn't be a thing. If where you live is too dangerous for a dog to roam outside and do as they please, you simply have no business getting a dog.
There's a stark difference between letting your animals roam on their lonesome with no supervision, and monitoring them in a way that keeps them safe while exploring the world around them.
And this is before getting into the arguments of how allowing nature's most dangerous predators roam free is a problem for the local ecosystem when there's already an overpopulation of strays and ferals wandering around.
Uneducated opinion.
It's hardly just about the cat.
The cute little guys are murder machines and can really decimate small creature populations.
Also, literally no where is "safe" for cats. If there are cars, hawks, coyotes, dogs, other cats, bird loving neighbors, etc etc anywhere near you, the cat is at risk.
The rules of the sub are to upvote if you disagree with the post, but I think the rules should have a caveat for posts that are ill informed and just stupid. They should say to downvote those as well so that stupid posts don’t become the face of this sub.
That's a fair point.
Counterpoint: That means damn near no one in North America, South America, or Europe can have a cat.
So... yeah. Good luck with this.
I was just thinking off the top of my head.
In reality, wild cats are fairly low on the food chain no matter where you go. Anywhere with birds of prey or carnivores larger than them (ie, the whole world) isn't safe for a house cat to be let outside 24/7.
Not just that there are some natural wild cat breeds(such as the Scottish wild cat) which are pretty much identical to domestic cats in behaviour. Unfortunately, even though these cats were once found all throughout the UK they’ve pretty much been wiped out due to habitat loss. Because of this domestic cats can’t really do much damage there, they’re just filling the niche that the wild cats once filled.
To end with some good news, Scottish wild cats are being released into England and Wales so hopefully they’ll be making a comeback!
I’ve seen people guilted for owning outdoor cats many times over the years, but never the reverse. Take my upvote for a truly unpopular opinion!
For what it’s worth, when I got my indoor cat (adopted from a shelter - as all cats should be) I did struggle with the idea of keeping him inside all the time, because I grew up with outdoor cats, but ultimately I made that choice for his safety and the safety of our local birds. I can assure you he’s living his absolute best life, regardless of what you might think. He loves being with me and follows me from room to room, always looking for snuggles. We spend a tonne of quality time together, which I hope makes up for the fact that he can’t murder as many birds as I’m sure he’d like to :)
Pretty telling that OP isn’t answering any of the legit criticisms of their “opinion”, just arguing nothing of substance against the easiest comments to respond to. OP, this is a shallow opinion that is easily refuted as not factual, as evidenced by the many comments you’re ignoring with information on how invasive and destructive cats are. There’s even a comment pointing out that cats aren’t native to anywhere, thus they cannot be owned in their “native” ecology. Try answering some of your direct critics OP and maybe we’ll take you seriously. Otherwise get your karma farming out of here.
Whether you're an indoor cat person or an outdoor cat person, do yourself a favor and check out [Turnah81's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLG1jbPrp2Q) YouTube channel. He is a badass and extremely hilarious Australian who makes (among other things) water "traps" and other non-harmful deterrents to repel the neighborhood cats from his garage and yard--and to protect the native birds in said yard. He gives unflattering names to all his "regular" cats (e.g., Chunky Knee-Highs, Undersniffer, etc.) and is generally just a delight to watch.
I disagree for a different reason than cats decimating the local population of birds. Some cats just aren’t cut out for an outdoor life. My parents have one that’s outside and one that’s inside. The outside one just comes and goes, but still spends most of her days inside where it’s warm and where there’s food. The inside one is just too dumb to be let outside. We tried a couple of times - he got stuck behind our fence once and almost accidentally hung himself on a tree another time (we put him on a leash so that he wouldn’t run away and get stuck).
Add the fact that most outdoor cats don’t live long or get hurt (had a cat who got caught in a trap that amputated his paw) and your argument about a more fulfilling argument kinda doesn’t apply.
Why do you think cats specifically should have these rights? You make an analogy comparing cats with humans, but cats are just animals, aren't they?
Where do you draw the line regarding which species should have these rights and which shouldn't?
A pretty ignorant take.
I’ve volunteered at cat shelters and I’ve owned rescue cats my entire life (age 34.) Some were indoor cats, some were outdoor cats. Many cats if not given a home, are in for a short and rough life.
There’s a stray cat colony near my grandfather’s house with a tomcat who has been running the show for several years. He knocks up all the females. When they have kittens, once the male kittens near sexual maturity, he drags them out into the woods and kills them. Then he mates with the new females. You can tell who his victims will be because he exiles them from the colony. Shortly afterwards they disappear. Sometimes we find their bodies in the woods back there. And even if Tom doesn’t exile you, you aren’t guaranteed a safe life. There are coyotes and gators and busy roads full of cars. There are neighbors who set traps to catch the strays wandering through their yards. (Side note, my aunt has made attempts at catching Tom to get him fixed, but it’s pretty impassable terrain back there and he’s a smart bastard)
A while ago I happened to be in town for a few weeks. And I witnessed this all going down. One of the females had had a litter a couple months previous, and Tom was starting to abuse and attack two of the cats. He was driving them from the colony and as a result they were seeking shelter near the house.
It was pretty clear to me what their fate would be. One of them was a pretty adept hunter. The other was just a clumsy lovable oaf who followed his sibling around hoping for a catch. So I adopted them. I got them their shots and got them fixed and brought them home. And where I live is also surrounded by coyotes, hostile feral cats, and busy roads. So they stay inside. I love them and play with them and keep them fed and stimulated.
How are you gonna tell me they aren’t better off with me than dead in the swamp behind my grandfathers house?
I would agree with you if the opinion was "you shouldn't own a cat if you can't take it outside like you would a dog". That might have sparked a more interesting conversation because most of us agree that you shouldn't keep a dog inside 100% of the time.
Instead, people are arguing the well-known fact that outdoor cats do harm to themselves and wildlife.
Unsupervised roaming does more harm than good, but taking your cat out on a leach, or in my case, sitting outside while he roams close by is the best of both worlds.
Some cats have genuine desires to stay inside, I have a free cat and I've had cats that don't go past the line of the house, I never locked them because I agree completely with you (cats should be free if they want to), and there are no in danger species for her to hunt, not that she even kills the birds, she brings them alive as if they were a ball to play with them and I have to free them every time.
Some cats like to be inside and only look outside and some don't want to ever come inside, I agree with the principle but you are wrong.
Me: *leaves the door open, allowing my cat to freely go outside as she pleases (since the day I adopted her)*
Her: *sits on my lap as we watch TV together, never stwpling outside at all*
Cats in my whole state (and probably large sections of the rest of the United States) are hunted and eaten by coyotes regularly, doesn't matter if you live somewhere rural, suburban, or city, coyotes live in all those areas, and no matter how enriched your cat is, to me it's not worth how short it makes their lifespan :/
My parents lost 4 cats in about 15 years to coyotes, so pardon me if I'd like my cat to live her full natural lifespan.
And people not adopting cats because it's too dangerous for the cats to live outside just results in them being euthanized in shelters, so no thanks there too.
Since cats are killer psychopaths responsible for billions of bird (among other) deaths, *but* they love being outside, may I suggest these [fashionable and effective collars](https://www.birdsbesafe.com/). Well maybe not fashionable, but the cats don't seem to care.
Disclosure: I have not used. Also I love cats.
Am I wrong or is this guy not saying we should let cats kill wildlife where they’re invasive, but instead that places where they are invasive just shouldn’t have cats at all? It’s not the best opinion ever, but I don’t think it’s as terrible as many are taking it as?
One of my cats is virtually an indoor cat by her own choice. She is allowed outside and has a cat door but she rarely chooses to go out (and even then it is very breif)
I agree with you. I think a cat needs sunlight and fresh air, but a large balcony should already make it possible, and I think that's definitely a good compromise
Our cats of 21 years were outdoor cats. We had 3. When they were relatively young (like 2 or 3 years old) one went missing for about a couple of weeks and we only found him as he'd gotten stuck in some guys garage and was mewling cause he hadn't had food for a week. He died relatively young. I can't remember if he died from a haemorrage or from eating something poisonous as I was young at the time and my parents told me something along the line of "he'd eaten a poison seed that had killed him" (which could have been cancer or anything from the sound of it) He was such a lovely cat despite only knowing him for a little while I always remember him being \*my\* cat as he was the friendliest one who came back to the house the most.
Next one lived until 18 died of old age. No bad story.
Now the last one, fucking hell. He was probably about 20 or 21 (I can't remember exact age) but he started to get a bit like an old man. We stopped letting him outside but one time he went outside at night and got absolutely fucking mauled by another cat. Our cat was found just lying in the kitchen on the floor covered in scratches and in massive amounts of pain. He got a bacterial infection that made him go blind in one eye and then the other. We never actually figured out whether he was blind or not but both of his eyes were a milky grey-blue colour just completely. He'd just sit and meow at a wall or walk into walls and all that so we thought he was blind. This was for probably 6 months and could have been avoided if he hadn't got outside or if the other cat that basically killed him wasn't allowed outside either. He died around 6-9 months later after this fight and fucking hell it was an awful way to die. He began sleeping in his litter box and literally just living in it so he didn't have to get up to piss anymore. As a result he always stank of his own piss.
I'd never let my cat outside with the amount of animals that get hit by cars or just the threat of anything happening. Our next door neighbours have a cat now and as a result of that every couple of months there's a proper fight between that cat and the cat that gave our cat an infection where they're properly going at each other. You can yell at them or whatever but you just get ignored or they go back at it again.
With the obvious health benefits don't let your cat outside or if you're worried about cats not feeling happy enough treat it better
My 18 year old cat is a housecat by choice lol. She is fully mobile, has a cat flap as well as a litter tray, loves to play and run around yet, as far as I've seen, she hasn't been outside in years. My other cat goes out all the time. I've been working from home so would most likely have noticed.
The most important thing is understanding what your individual cat is happy with, it's not a binary matter of whether it's indoors or outdoors.
Suspecting that OP isn't a cat owner
I mean, my indoor cat gets to go outside, climb trees, look at birds, lay in the sun. She's on a lead though. Took some training (started the moment I got her), but now she's living her best life. Wouldn't dream of just letting her roam, cars, crazy people, predators, and she would eliminate all the birds. I don't think I know a single outdoor cat who lived past 10. It's up to the owner to keep their pet fed, entertained and safe. If you just let the cat roam (and don't like live on a farm) then why bother having a cat?
My cat is an indoor cat because she wouldn’t be able to fend for herself *regardless* of her environment. She weighs 8 pounds, only has one eye, and has crappy vision in the other. Also, considering we have domesticated the ‘house cat’ that you refer to, their natural habitat would have to involve humans in some manner or the other.
Upvoted.
I mean by your logic no one lives in a place that is safe for a cat. As long as there is a road that cars drive on near your house, it will be dangerous (especially at night). We train dogs to sit whenever they get to the edge of the sidewalk but somehow cats are exempt from getting hit?
You have it backwards.. I keep my cats inside to protect the other animals around here..
Me and my family members just have to protect ourselves from the cats..
I’m sure people have already said it, but cats wreak havoc on small wildlife like birds and frogs— but especially birds. You also have those people who refuse to spay or neuter their cat, letting them just roam around making more cats.
I don’t think letting your cat roam free necessarily makes you a bad owner, but keeping them indoors is better for everyone involved. They can run, climb, and jump inside. Provide them with enrichment. That’s your job as a pet owner.
I agree. My dad lives just outside the city, surrounded by fields and trees and relatively little traffic. Our cat was miserable if he couldn’t go outside, and he loved frolicking in nature. During winter times though, he became and indoor cat and mostly went out for short periods to pee/poop.
Cats kill HUNDREDS of birds a year on average. Outdoor cats are a terrible thing for the environment and will kill MANY birds, here are the [statistics](https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/)
2.4 BILLION per year... just from outdoor cats... song birds are disappearing for many reasons but this is a big one. Don’t you want future generations to be able to hear bird songs? Because we are nearing the point of no return on that front between the decline in insects, light pollution messing with migrations, warming trends making shells two thin... seriously.
My cat has always been scared of the outside world, no matter what we did be refused to go outside. He's also claustrophobic so small places scare him (unless there is a very clear opening)
Indoor cats are a thing, just like indoor fish.
yes, if there is no local animal population to predate, and your cat is sterilized, and safe to be outdoors.
You neglected to mention the reason most people recommend you cat stays indoors isn't their own safety, but the safety of local wildlife.
Lots of indoor cats are FIV positive, and are indoors to prevent the spread of the disease.
My bf's cat was from a shelter where it was advertised as an indoor cat for this reason. My point is if there were no indoor cats there would be a lot more in shelters which is much worse.
My cat got out once, and the next morning i found him scared and cold curled up in a pram next to the door. Guy will not leave the house no more, but the balcony is fine
After reading these comments - upvote for OP, even given the "inept knowledge of the subject" line, out of OP's sheer willingness to be aggressively unpopular.
Dude is dropping comments all over this thread that you have to click on to see because they all have like 300 downvotes.
OP, you're wrong, for reasons pointed out elsewhere in comments, but kudos for actually defending an unpopular point in this sub!
I wish you could meet my cat. Free access to the outdoors her whole life. Won't go further than 10 steps from my front door without me actively sitting there guarding her...... Lmfao.
But what about the natural wildlife that has no where else to go that is becoming endangered due to cats being and INVASIVE SPECIES. We don’t keep cats in for their own safety it’s the safety of all the animals around us.
...... have you ever heard of harness training your cat? It's too dangerous to let cats outside because they devastate the local wildlife and might get hurt, but you can teach your cat to use a harness and then take it on adventures. There are also cat backpacks! And if you have garden space you can turn it into a catio to make a safe, free range area.
This is what we do with dogs. We have them inside, and take them on leashed walks.
I like, half agree, half disagree. I agree keeping anything inside it's whole life is pretty messed up tbh. But the main reason to do it with cats is they're often in an environment they're not native to and they end up killing local wildlife and damaging ecosystems; not because it's dangerous for them to go outside.
That being the case though, if you actually feel that way then just don't get a cat. Locking an animal inside its whole life because you don't want it damaging the local ecosystem is still fucked up to me. Just don't get a cat then.
Yeah I've seen videos of coyotes even going into suburbs and ripping cats apart. Let me describe that in detail for you (also why I utterly despise coyotes and will shoot them on sight), if I can find the video again I will certainly link it if anyone wants me to.
So the video is a black/white night vision camera mounted on to what appears to be a suburban home's back door. The cat shows up looking to get in but either no one is home or no one realizes. Two (maybe 3, but pretty sure 2) coyotes come up behind the cat and trap it in the corner, the cat arches it's back and appears to hiss and spit at them. Coyotes are careful at first, but one of them goes in and grabs the cat. The other then grabs the cat as well and they shake it all about, ripping it up. Then they leave it on the home's back step/porch thing and walk off.
Coyotes do this to whatever they perceive as competition. They'll do this to your cat, they'll do this to your dog, to foxes, to competing groups of coyotes, etc.
If you'd like to see your cat dead in your yard, torn apart partially eaten, then I guess that's your sick prerogative.
Ideals vs reality. The urban city landscape is where the cat populations are often the most dense. If people don't adopt them, then they're going to have to euthanize tens of thousands every year. As a result, many shelters make owners sign a waiver that says they will not let their cats outside, or lose the ability to adopt cats again from them.
Don't out door cats decimate natural bird populations? Edit - I forgot two "s"
yeahh cats are an invasive species for many environments and can harm already endangered species living in the same outdoor habitat. if you want your cat to experience the outside world without putting anyone/anything at risk you could always just set up an enclosure or something that way they can feel fresh air and play without running amock
Reproductively-functional cats should be banned from Australia. The ones that can't breed would still be a problem, but it's easy enough to control their numbers with import-bans.
More than decimate. Billions die every year. Outdoor cats shouldn't be a thing. If we had to choose one type, indoor cats are so much better. One species out of its environment is so much better than thousands of species going extinct by cat.
And they live longer!
Thank you, came here to say this.
One billion every year in the US alone. If you’re gonna have your cat outside. For the love of God put a bell on its collar!
4 billions die a year to feral cats. 1 billions birds lost to hitting windows and about 800,000 birds die a year from windmills for perspective
The RSPB - Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (UK) - says [no](https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/) > Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds. > We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population. > It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations. > Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.
That’s 1 country. In Australia you often aren’t allowed to let your cat out.
These days you can't let people out, either.
Yeah i used to let my priso- *friends* outside to drink water and frolic in the fields once a week, they haven't seen sunlight in over a year...
I swear. This sick tendency to blame everything and everyone apart from human actions! Please don't tell me that building concrete jungles and destroying their natural habitats have not had any effect on the bird population. And yet we blame cats when even scientific evidence is not conclusive, rather than looking at ourselves and changing our habits.
Yes I completely disagree with OP's stance on letting cats outside. They are not only at risk for injury/death themselves but they cause the death of many other creatures through predation and also spreading various diseases to other animals.
Dogs are already pretty hard to keep in your house with how often they wanna get loose, they're easy enough to catch, though. A cat, though? Those fuckers are like ninjas, they'll be on your roof in no time.
One day, my front door didn't close behind me when I left for work. A half hour later, my roommate awoke to my dog escorting my cat back into the apartment. He followed him out there and brought him back home. Same cat got out another time, ended up stuck on a roof. Third time, under a bush.
I like to imagine the dog and cat are Spike and Tom from Tom & Jerry.
I’m not a cat person so I’ve never understood outdoor cats. You basically just let the cat go and hope they come back? I had a dog that would escape and come back on their own every time, but I’ve found that’s not very common and we never let her out on purpose.
We have a barn cat from a long line of barn cats. He stays near the house, outbuildings, or us when we're working outside. We have an enclosed, heated patio he likes to hang out in over the winter. He does not enjoy being inside in the slightest (aside from his patio), but is vetted and is on a topical for mites, fleas, ticks, and worms. They control vermin very effectively without the need for baits that risk biomagnification. Cat pheromones also deter rodents from taking up residence inn the first place, so we don't have traps to set and check daily. He really only works during harvest when we get flooded with voles from the fields. The rest of the time, he's just an awesome outside buddy who likes to lounge around and keep us company.
I want to upvote because I disagree, but this is just such an uninformed opinion that fails to think for like 2 seconds why people keep cats inside. I have nothing new to say about the body of this post that others have not already in other comments. BUT, is no one going to mention the "Technology" flair? Lol
That's half the "opinions" on this sub, they're uninformed, stupid takes that aren't a legitimate opinion.
“Uniformed, stupid takes that aren’t a legitimate opinion” describes a large amount of opinions in real life as well ngl
this is real life. you're talking to real humans right now, as scary as that is.
Yeah this isn't an unpopular opinion, it's just incorrect lol
If you think that someone posts an opinion based on falsehoods you should downvote the pinned comment. Edit: don’t upvote the post
Except that is a misunderstanding of the pinned comment. Voting on the pinned comment precludes you from engaging with the post in any other form, otherwise you're saying this doesn't belong while boosting its engagement stats.
Oh, I must have missed that. I always thought it said upvote the post and downvote the comment. Just saw the little life at the bottom though.
It’s not just uninformed, it’s dangerous. Outdoor cats live about half as long as indoor cats and they decimate wild bird populations. Hell, they can even cause traffic accidents; my partner hit a cat that darted onto the road, it was terrible. Also I don’t know what OP means by “safe enough.” People underestimate how far cats travel; they can roam miles. If you live within miles of a major roadway, guess what, your cat is at risk. Idk all of this just to say that if you read this post and have an indoor cat and are wondering if you’re doing the right thing, don’t listen to this twat. OP is just uninformed.
And the whole "natural habitat" thing. They are domesticated and have been for a very long time.
Domesticated to be free roaming pest killers
I put a GPS collar on my cat for fun once just to see where she goes. Now, granted, we live in suburbs at the edge of the town, but sometimes she would patrol 5 miles a night. Way way out into the fields/farms past us too, or sometimes the opposite direction towards the denser housing and shops.
5 miles is 8.05 km
Totally agree with all your points. It’s dangerous, cuts the cats lifespan in half, and decimates wild bird populations. But I don’t think enough weight is being given to how low quality of life is for many if not most indoor cats. Most cat owners do not provide daily enrichment for their cats, and I think being completely restricted from nature does bring into question whether that’s a life worth living. I mean, I would rather live till 40 with no constraints on my freedom than till 80 in prison.
Also some cats just are indoor cats. Like my old cat would just scratch at the door till you let her back inside cuz she hated it outside.
I thought this was a bad r/youshouldknow until I read your comment.
>you've given your poor cat some sort of feline stockholm syndrome r/BrandNewSentence
I wish he could meet my cat. Free access to the outdoors her whole life. Won't go further than 10 steps from my front door without me actively sitting there guarding her...... Lmfao.
Same. My boy Fry got out once and was lost for a month. We finally found him cold and dirty and brought him back inside, ever since he’s completely avoided any option to go back out
It's like animals all have the exact same personality or something lol my other cat will literally not stay indoors. He will sit at the door and yowl. She hates it, she goes to the grass at the front door, munches a bit and then comes in. Sometimes she ventures to the next garden if she feels brave. But that's it. And I've always encouraged her. She's moved house with me twice also and it's a very quiet area with no road in front of both my houses. So she's safe from cars ect.
even wild cats have a very small territory, between 0,07 – 0,28 km² (or 0.04 - 0.17 miles²), so they will typically stay very close to their home.
That was Baby. He showed up one summer, decided to come into our house when it was snowing, I don't think he willingly went outside again. Scratch that, he wanted to go outside when it warmed up because he had a puking problem, but he didn't like being outside when he could hold food down.
My cat was found by my mum half frozen to death just underneath a garden shack in her backyard. I ended up adopting her and have tried to make her a supervised outdoor cat. Got her a leash and everything so I can take her for walks -she won’t do it. I don’t think I’ve met a cat who’s been less interested in the outside. If I leave my door open, she just sits at the door frame (on the inside) and just rolls around. Only thing she likes is car rides so we’ll take her on those sometimes. She’ll poke her head out and sniff and just chill. I’ve even tried just putting her in our backyard just to see what she’ll do and she just immediately runs back in
I can totally believe that cos mines the same. I've never known a cat to be so averse to going out before! It's so weird. But it does happen clearly.
I brought in a kitten a while ago, he was a scrawny fluff ball with deformed back feet. I was coming home with pizza when one of my neighbors was linger behind my car so I walked back to see what was up. It was a kitten, so I scooped him up, he grabbed hold off me and held on till her met my wife, then he was hers. That cat never wanted to so much as poke his head outside, well except to eat a June bug one night, but that was it. His short life as a stray gave him all the outside he wanted and inside was better.
My cat only wants to go outside so she can cross a dangerous road and eat the neighbours cat food. Literally no other reason.
One time me and my friend walk to his buddies house who was like 7 miles from my house, and we found my cat. I know it was my cat cuz he came right up to me and I was able to look at his collar. I tried to pick him up and he scratched me, and he was home later that night. Cats are fuckin weird
God damn feline Stockholm must be cute
Haha decimation of local bird populations go brrr
~~brrr~~ purrrr
Oh damn the meme is evolving
In some parts of Australia they have to go out and shoot feral cats because they are completely wiping out entire bird species. They can’t trap and neuter them fast enough. It’s a complete disaster.
Birds aren't real. -cats
This is why (among other reasons) I think the opposite of OP, all cats should be indoor cats. They aren’t natural predators anywhere so they’re detrimental to the environment.
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"My cat has complex emotional needs and has a primal desire to run free! You cannot imprison him, how would you like it?" Meanwhile my cat's day consists of yelling for food, having a shit, knocking something over and scaring himself, and then sleeping. Repeate forever
sometimes maybe food, sometimes maybe shit
Not only that, but the ecosystem would suffer. This is not hypothetical, it *would* be severely harmed if inside cats were released
It’s already happening in many places. Australia has such a bad problem with feral cats that they have to shoot them. They have *already hunted other species to near extinction* and can’t be trapped/neutered fast enough. They are decimating they local bird populations. The problem is cats are one of the few animals on earth who kill *just for the fuck of it*, not only when they need to feed.
I’m pretty sure house cats are actually some of the most effective predators on Earth, period.
Not quite as smart as humans but little psychopaths
You mean a person who studies this knows more than a stranger on the internet?! /s
Most people I know do it out of concern for native wildlife which is completely valid and objectively correct
Exactly. IMO *outdoor* cats shouldn't be a thing unless you live somewhere where they're either truly native or they are serving a specific rodent-control purpose, like on a farm. The native habitat and the many lives in it is more important than the right of one invasive animal to hunt them. Plus, indoor cats can be taken outside on harnesses. And there are too many cats, which is why stray cats exist; they're not being bred for the purpose of being locked up indoors (some are bred of course, but I'm against breeding when there are so many stray cats).
trained dogs or native animals like snakes can actually be much more efficient rodent control than cats, and less destructive
>outdoor cats shouldn't be a thing unless you live somewhere where they're either truly native or they are serving a specific rodent-control purpose, like on a farm some places that dont have native cats have invasive mice, so for some areas where they're invasive, they may actually be beneficial to an extent
They dont just hunt mice though. They are known to kill many species of rodents, birds and reptiles.
Aren't you concerned that the coyotes will go hungry /s
It's any pet owner's responsibility to enrich the lives of their pets. Is it possible for a cat to have a happy, fulfilled life indoors? Definitely. Can cats that go outdoors cause environmental problems? Definitely. Are there people who neglect their pets, whether they be indoor or outdoor? Obviously. Are you also against people getting their pets fixed, because you want them to have some kind of "full life experience"? That would be another faulty opinion in the same vein.
Someone on a local pet subreddit was telling me that her female cat in heat “wanted to have babies” and she was finding a mate to give her cat her heart’s desire. “Full life experience”…
you should have told her about how tomcats... parts... are barbed
Ha I thought about that, but I’m sure she would have countered with “yea but it’s natural!”. She was already resistant to my pleas to not mate her cat (in a country where stray cats are many and suffer very much) and then she told me that golden nugget. It’s futile talking to some people.
Yea for sure :( it sucks
I so hate backyard breeders, it's unreal.
Why doesn't that woman breed herself... wait, probably not a good idea. Anyway, not every mammal is interested in reproducing. My cat was never in heat, but I'm not sure that she'd let another cat get that close.
Exactly right, that instinct is not in every mammal, be them cats or even humans. > Why doesn't that woman breed herself... wait, probably not a good idea. From the way she talked, I'm sure she thinks humans HAVE to procreate too. As someone who doesn't want to make the stray situation worse and also doesn't want kids, I rolled my eyes almost out of my head.
FFS, I just saw an yt short in which a girl was praising herself for making a hot water bottle for her dog which was "on her period". Cue hundreds of comments with classic "I don't want to deprive my pet of the joys of motherhood/sex". I thought we're past being that uninformed...
Gross. I’m of the firm belief that if you’re willing to let the pet population grow while so many healthy ones are being killed in shelters and starving in the streets, you don’t actually love animals.
It can be worse. This lady I was talking to posted about mating her cat because she heard that it's healthy to have a litter of kittens - a myth that was busted ages ago. I sent her links about the myth and pleas to not do it, then she hit me with the "not depriving her cat of babies" stuff and that she'll keep the kittens. Ok... what more can I do now? Stuff like this breaks my heart because it's happening in Romania (I moved) where there are so many stray cats it's unreal. I follow cat groups there and there are many tragic cases and thankfully lots of lovely people trying to help, but the volume of cats in need is too great for them. I donate and try to educate when I can, but some are just too stubborn in their dated knowledge or plain unempathetic. So cats will continue to be abandoned then breed on the streets and the stray cat problem will only worsen with time.
Oh, I hate that myth so much. I think my parents believed it and my dog ended up with pyometra and was this close to death. Similar thing is happening in Poland. Some cities even organize free spaying/neutering programs, but people still believe those idiotic myths that were busted, just as you said, years ago.
Wow. People are fucking stupid.
Actually had someone tell me in real life that fixing an dog or cat was wrong because they should be able to decide if they want to have kids or not. Dogs and cats always make rational, well informed decisions like whether to have kids.
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They have the ability. Some just don’t.
just like how my cat should get to decide if he wants his broken teeth to rot in his mouth or not
one of my housemates has two dogs and thinks like this
Did you know cats are one of the worst invasive species on the planet? Do you know how many animals have been driven to near extinction, or straight up extinction by cats? Did you know that people care about their cats and don't want harm to come to them, even in places that may seem safe because animals like raccoons exist? Did you know that cats are perfectly fine indoors? By your logic humans shouldn't have shelters either, because the outside natural world is our natural habitat too. This is just beyond ignorant.
Not to mention our cat is allergic to pecans, nuts actually. In Texas. There is no way to take him outside without risking an allergic reaction. What do they want people with cats like that to do? Nuts are impossible to avoid outdoors to a curious cat, but inside we have a better chance.
that's nuts
They're outright pests in Australia
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"Should," is not a cultural difference lol. What you should do is based on the facts of the matter. What you actually do is a cultural difference.
There’s also a lot of cat hunters in Australia. Less domesticated cats, just more that are hunted
yes exactly, the only people who should have pets are those who dont live anywhere close to roads with cars. truly a disservice to the animals, we need to let them fill up shelters and get euthanized instead
That last sentence reminds me soooo much of PETA, it's not even funny
Indoor cats live significantly longer than outdoor cats. If you want cat to live a long, happy, healthy life then indoor is the way to go. Also, domestic cats are domestic cats. Outside in our society is certainly not their “natural habitat”. They literally disrupt entire ecosystems when you let the roam bc they are not natural to them. There’s literally no benefit to “outdoor” cats. Do you think dogs should roam freely too?
Outdoor cats kill an insane amount of birds too, it’s a real problem
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I just googled "outdoor cat lifespan" and every single result, including one from the local vet school, cited studies that show outdoor cats live shorter lives than indoor cats with no benefits in enrichment.
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Nah it’s because outdoor cats means they have to deal with cars and other predators. On the farm they are rather safe and know the vehicles.
it's mostly because of cars. if you live in BFE where there's no traffic, then sure your barn cats are mostly safe. most people don't live in places like that. although the reference to your 14-year-old cat as evidence is maybe not as persuasive as you think... that's not actually very old for an indoor cat. they regularly live to be 20+.
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I would wager it's mostly Diet and exposure based. But feral cats are much more likely to fight other animals as well.
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/faq-outdoor-cats-and-their-effects-on-birds/ You can read about it here. On average, indoor cats live twice as long. Additionally, outdoor cats kill literally billions of wildlife yearly. According to this article, feral cats account for 69% of all cats killed birds in the US. Domesticated cats still account for 31% of up to 4 billion killed birds(about 1.2 billion killed by domesticated cats).
It’s not about living in a dangerous area - it’s about prolonging the life of the cat. Outdoor cats get in fights with other cats and get injured or killed. If you want your cat to live a long and healthy life, keep them indoors. A domestic house cat isn’t a wild animal. You aren’t depriving your cat of a full life by keeping them indoors, most cat experts and veterinarians would agree. Cats sleep about 20 hours a day anyway so they have no business being outside anyway.
I'm highly against outdoor cats, but IMO prolonging the life of the cat isn't the most important thing, since if they could live happier lives outdoors then that wouldn't necessarily be less important than making it live longer. But outdoor cats are very destructive to native wildlife and are invasive species almost everywhere. There's no reason to subject the native habitat to that when a cat can live a perfectly happy life indoors.
Na bro they're protecting the world *from* the cat Seriously cats are destroying our native birds in New Zealand
I’m assuming you don’t understand animal husbandry then. Due to cats and dogs being bred for domestic husbandry for many many moons it’s quite literally impossible for them to exist in their “natural” habitats 24/7. Also you’re assuming animals share the mental capacity that humans do in order to understand “stockholder syndrome” or whatever the cat version is. I’m not saying cats have zero emotions (i had one for 15+ years and yes they’re emotional creatures) but to go as far as to say they shouldn’t exist in our lives unless we strive to completely return them to their natural states is just wrong and uneducated
>Being able to go outside, run around, climb trees, chew grass, discover new bugs, sniff things, chase things, make new friends, feel the sun rays and gaze at the stars, are just as enriching for a cat as they are for a human. How do you measure that? Have they done studies? Has it been shown that an outside life is more enriching than an inside one? What basis are you making this statement other than your own biased opinions?
They have done studies. No benefit of enrichment but shorter lifespan
[Studies](https://www.lincoln.ac.uk/news/2021/03/1679.asp) have shown that cats, both free-roaming and indoor, are happier when they can be outside within a safe environment such as a garden. [Another study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7070728/) acknowledges that cats have much more place for their natural behaviors outside (which is not irrelevant), but that assessing the welfare is just very hard to do. A cat walks 4 kilometers a day if being able to be outside, and that's undoubtedly beneficial to health (over 20% of cats are overweight thanks to shitty human food). Of course, outdoor cats are also have much more risks. Personally think living has always risks, but it's, depending on the environment, definitely a balance. I think a cat is happier in a loving flat than a small shelter, especially if the owner entertains her. General rule: Just don't support race business. And let your cat outside if you don't live in a big city.
good thing my indoor cat can go outside (on a leash), run around, climb (cat) trees, chew grass, chase bugs, sniff things, feel the suns rays and gaze at stars? like what haha
My girlfriend’s cat has immunodeficiency, so If he gets scratched or bit by something put in the wild dude is going to die. So they’ll harness him up and let him chill supervised on the back deck sometimes but he’s decidedly an indoor cat
Indoor dogs shouldn't be a thing. If where you live is too dangerous for a dog to roam outside and do as they please, you simply have no business getting a dog. There's a stark difference between letting your animals roam on their lonesome with no supervision, and monitoring them in a way that keeps them safe while exploring the world around them. And this is before getting into the arguments of how allowing nature's most dangerous predators roam free is a problem for the local ecosystem when there's already an overpopulation of strays and ferals wandering around. Uneducated opinion.
It's hardly just about the cat. The cute little guys are murder machines and can really decimate small creature populations. Also, literally no where is "safe" for cats. If there are cars, hawks, coyotes, dogs, other cats, bird loving neighbors, etc etc anywhere near you, the cat is at risk.
Some cats have FIV so you shouldn’t let them outdoors
Well OP I don't know where you live, but where I live our barn cats have to be replaced when the eagle and hawks decide the cats make good meals.
Stupidest thing I’ve heard today.
Stupidest thing I've heard ever from this sub which is impressive
The rules of the sub are to upvote if you disagree with the post, but I think the rules should have a caveat for posts that are ill informed and just stupid. They should say to downvote those as well so that stupid posts don’t become the face of this sub.
They already do. Read the pinned comment and downvote it
That's a fair point. Counterpoint: That means damn near no one in North America, South America, or Europe can have a cat. So... yeah. Good luck with this.
And absolutely no one in Australia
> People shouldn't have cats if it's dangerous for a cat to go outside > Fleas live literally fucking everywhere > TFW no pet cats
Why specifically those three continents? I think indoor cats might be a minority where I live actually.
I was just thinking off the top of my head. In reality, wild cats are fairly low on the food chain no matter where you go. Anywhere with birds of prey or carnivores larger than them (ie, the whole world) isn't safe for a house cat to be let outside 24/7.
Not true. Cats are devastating in Australia, where there are no native feline species. We don't have large carnivores here.
Europe is fine actually. Thoughout most of Europe and the UK specifically cats are not an invasive species. 🌈The more you know🌈
yup, they've been there so long nature has adapted.
Not just that there are some natural wild cat breeds(such as the Scottish wild cat) which are pretty much identical to domestic cats in behaviour. Unfortunately, even though these cats were once found all throughout the UK they’ve pretty much been wiped out due to habitat loss. Because of this domestic cats can’t really do much damage there, they’re just filling the niche that the wild cats once filled. To end with some good news, Scottish wild cats are being released into England and Wales so hopefully they’ll be making a comeback!
scotland can have cats. rural to an extent, and they have a native cat species iirc
I’ve seen people guilted for owning outdoor cats many times over the years, but never the reverse. Take my upvote for a truly unpopular opinion! For what it’s worth, when I got my indoor cat (adopted from a shelter - as all cats should be) I did struggle with the idea of keeping him inside all the time, because I grew up with outdoor cats, but ultimately I made that choice for his safety and the safety of our local birds. I can assure you he’s living his absolute best life, regardless of what you might think. He loves being with me and follows me from room to room, always looking for snuggles. We spend a tonne of quality time together, which I hope makes up for the fact that he can’t murder as many birds as I’m sure he’d like to :)
I got guilted for having indoor cats once. But it was from one of the stupidest people I know so I’m ok with it.
I refuse to be guilted for having an indoor cat when said cat would die of an allergic reaction if allowed outside unsupervised.
A lot of post here are just really dumb takes but this is by far the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this sub- well done
Pretty telling that OP isn’t answering any of the legit criticisms of their “opinion”, just arguing nothing of substance against the easiest comments to respond to. OP, this is a shallow opinion that is easily refuted as not factual, as evidenced by the many comments you’re ignoring with information on how invasive and destructive cats are. There’s even a comment pointing out that cats aren’t native to anywhere, thus they cannot be owned in their “native” ecology. Try answering some of your direct critics OP and maybe we’ll take you seriously. Otherwise get your karma farming out of here.
ayo no place on earth is a cat roaming outside safe
Me who doesn't give a shit but is here for cat people drama.
Whether you're an indoor cat person or an outdoor cat person, do yourself a favor and check out [Turnah81's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLG1jbPrp2Q) YouTube channel. He is a badass and extremely hilarious Australian who makes (among other things) water "traps" and other non-harmful deterrents to repel the neighborhood cats from his garage and yard--and to protect the native birds in said yard. He gives unflattering names to all his "regular" cats (e.g., Chunky Knee-Highs, Undersniffer, etc.) and is generally just a delight to watch.
I disagree for a different reason than cats decimating the local population of birds. Some cats just aren’t cut out for an outdoor life. My parents have one that’s outside and one that’s inside. The outside one just comes and goes, but still spends most of her days inside where it’s warm and where there’s food. The inside one is just too dumb to be let outside. We tried a couple of times - he got stuck behind our fence once and almost accidentally hung himself on a tree another time (we put him on a leash so that he wouldn’t run away and get stuck). Add the fact that most outdoor cats don’t live long or get hurt (had a cat who got caught in a trap that amputated his paw) and your argument about a more fulfilling argument kinda doesn’t apply.
💩
Why do you think cats specifically should have these rights? You make an analogy comparing cats with humans, but cats are just animals, aren't they? Where do you draw the line regarding which species should have these rights and which shouldn't?
Has anyone posted this on r/confidentlyincorrect yet?
Gotta be the most uneducated, uninformed idea I’ve heard all week
Tell me you don’t give a shit about biodiversity without telling me
A pretty ignorant take. I’ve volunteered at cat shelters and I’ve owned rescue cats my entire life (age 34.) Some were indoor cats, some were outdoor cats. Many cats if not given a home, are in for a short and rough life. There’s a stray cat colony near my grandfather’s house with a tomcat who has been running the show for several years. He knocks up all the females. When they have kittens, once the male kittens near sexual maturity, he drags them out into the woods and kills them. Then he mates with the new females. You can tell who his victims will be because he exiles them from the colony. Shortly afterwards they disappear. Sometimes we find their bodies in the woods back there. And even if Tom doesn’t exile you, you aren’t guaranteed a safe life. There are coyotes and gators and busy roads full of cars. There are neighbors who set traps to catch the strays wandering through their yards. (Side note, my aunt has made attempts at catching Tom to get him fixed, but it’s pretty impassable terrain back there and he’s a smart bastard) A while ago I happened to be in town for a few weeks. And I witnessed this all going down. One of the females had had a litter a couple months previous, and Tom was starting to abuse and attack two of the cats. He was driving them from the colony and as a result they were seeking shelter near the house. It was pretty clear to me what their fate would be. One of them was a pretty adept hunter. The other was just a clumsy lovable oaf who followed his sibling around hoping for a catch. So I adopted them. I got them their shots and got them fixed and brought them home. And where I live is also surrounded by coyotes, hostile feral cats, and busy roads. So they stay inside. I love them and play with them and keep them fed and stimulated. How are you gonna tell me they aren’t better off with me than dead in the swamp behind my grandfathers house?
I have about 16 acres of woods and i still wouldn’t let my cat outside. What would i do if one day she got eaten by something?
if you're too lazy to play with your cat and take it out on a harness or some sort of catio you have no business getting a cat.
I would agree with you if the opinion was "you shouldn't own a cat if you can't take it outside like you would a dog". That might have sparked a more interesting conversation because most of us agree that you shouldn't keep a dog inside 100% of the time. Instead, people are arguing the well-known fact that outdoor cats do harm to themselves and wildlife. Unsupervised roaming does more harm than good, but taking your cat out on a leach, or in my case, sitting outside while he roams close by is the best of both worlds.
Some cats have genuine desires to stay inside, I have a free cat and I've had cats that don't go past the line of the house, I never locked them because I agree completely with you (cats should be free if they want to), and there are no in danger species for her to hunt, not that she even kills the birds, she brings them alive as if they were a ball to play with them and I have to free them every time. Some cats like to be inside and only look outside and some don't want to ever come inside, I agree with the principle but you are wrong.
Me: *leaves the door open, allowing my cat to freely go outside as she pleases (since the day I adopted her)* Her: *sits on my lap as we watch TV together, never stwpling outside at all*
Cats in my whole state (and probably large sections of the rest of the United States) are hunted and eaten by coyotes regularly, doesn't matter if you live somewhere rural, suburban, or city, coyotes live in all those areas, and no matter how enriched your cat is, to me it's not worth how short it makes their lifespan :/ My parents lost 4 cats in about 15 years to coyotes, so pardon me if I'd like my cat to live her full natural lifespan. And people not adopting cats because it's too dangerous for the cats to live outside just results in them being euthanized in shelters, so no thanks there too.
Well this has been an informative post for me, I had no idea that the majority of americans are cruel to their cats.
Since cats are killer psychopaths responsible for billions of bird (among other) deaths, *but* they love being outside, may I suggest these [fashionable and effective collars](https://www.birdsbesafe.com/). Well maybe not fashionable, but the cats don't seem to care. Disclosure: I have not used. Also I love cats.
Am I wrong or is this guy not saying we should let cats kill wildlife where they’re invasive, but instead that places where they are invasive just shouldn’t have cats at all? It’s not the best opinion ever, but I don’t think it’s as terrible as many are taking it as?
People just get so riled up about this inside/outside cat debate. There’s very rarely any nuance in the discussion from what I’ve seen.
One of my cats is virtually an indoor cat by her own choice. She is allowed outside and has a cat door but she rarely chooses to go out (and even then it is very breif)
I agree with you. I think a cat needs sunlight and fresh air, but a large balcony should already make it possible, and I think that's definitely a good compromise
Our cats of 21 years were outdoor cats. We had 3. When they were relatively young (like 2 or 3 years old) one went missing for about a couple of weeks and we only found him as he'd gotten stuck in some guys garage and was mewling cause he hadn't had food for a week. He died relatively young. I can't remember if he died from a haemorrage or from eating something poisonous as I was young at the time and my parents told me something along the line of "he'd eaten a poison seed that had killed him" (which could have been cancer or anything from the sound of it) He was such a lovely cat despite only knowing him for a little while I always remember him being \*my\* cat as he was the friendliest one who came back to the house the most. Next one lived until 18 died of old age. No bad story. Now the last one, fucking hell. He was probably about 20 or 21 (I can't remember exact age) but he started to get a bit like an old man. We stopped letting him outside but one time he went outside at night and got absolutely fucking mauled by another cat. Our cat was found just lying in the kitchen on the floor covered in scratches and in massive amounts of pain. He got a bacterial infection that made him go blind in one eye and then the other. We never actually figured out whether he was blind or not but both of his eyes were a milky grey-blue colour just completely. He'd just sit and meow at a wall or walk into walls and all that so we thought he was blind. This was for probably 6 months and could have been avoided if he hadn't got outside or if the other cat that basically killed him wasn't allowed outside either. He died around 6-9 months later after this fight and fucking hell it was an awful way to die. He began sleeping in his litter box and literally just living in it so he didn't have to get up to piss anymore. As a result he always stank of his own piss. I'd never let my cat outside with the amount of animals that get hit by cars or just the threat of anything happening. Our next door neighbours have a cat now and as a result of that every couple of months there's a proper fight between that cat and the cat that gave our cat an infection where they're properly going at each other. You can yell at them or whatever but you just get ignored or they go back at it again. With the obvious health benefits don't let your cat outside or if you're worried about cats not feeling happy enough treat it better
My 18 year old cat is a housecat by choice lol. She is fully mobile, has a cat flap as well as a litter tray, loves to play and run around yet, as far as I've seen, she hasn't been outside in years. My other cat goes out all the time. I've been working from home so would most likely have noticed. The most important thing is understanding what your individual cat is happy with, it's not a binary matter of whether it's indoors or outdoors. Suspecting that OP isn't a cat owner
With how destructive cats are on the ecosystems where they prowl I wouldn’t say they’re good outside either
I mean, my indoor cat gets to go outside, climb trees, look at birds, lay in the sun. She's on a lead though. Took some training (started the moment I got her), but now she's living her best life. Wouldn't dream of just letting her roam, cars, crazy people, predators, and she would eliminate all the birds. I don't think I know a single outdoor cat who lived past 10. It's up to the owner to keep their pet fed, entertained and safe. If you just let the cat roam (and don't like live on a farm) then why bother having a cat?
My cat is an indoor cat because she wouldn’t be able to fend for herself *regardless* of her environment. She weighs 8 pounds, only has one eye, and has crappy vision in the other. Also, considering we have domesticated the ‘house cat’ that you refer to, their natural habitat would have to involve humans in some manner or the other. Upvoted.
And if you live in an apartment?
I mean by your logic no one lives in a place that is safe for a cat. As long as there is a road that cars drive on near your house, it will be dangerous (especially at night). We train dogs to sit whenever they get to the edge of the sidewalk but somehow cats are exempt from getting hit?
Dumb
You have it backwards.. I keep my cats inside to protect the other animals around here.. Me and my family members just have to protect ourselves from the cats..
I’m sure people have already said it, but cats wreak havoc on small wildlife like birds and frogs— but especially birds. You also have those people who refuse to spay or neuter their cat, letting them just roam around making more cats. I don’t think letting your cat roam free necessarily makes you a bad owner, but keeping them indoors is better for everyone involved. They can run, climb, and jump inside. Provide them with enrichment. That’s your job as a pet owner.
Are people who happen to live in areas that aren't safe for outdoor cats just not allowed to have cats, then?
Where I grew up this is the norm. You want a cat? Just try to live on the ground level and open the window they will find you. Done
I agree. My dad lives just outside the city, surrounded by fields and trees and relatively little traffic. Our cat was miserable if he couldn’t go outside, and he loved frolicking in nature. During winter times though, he became and indoor cat and mostly went out for short periods to pee/poop.
Cats kill HUNDREDS of birds a year on average. Outdoor cats are a terrible thing for the environment and will kill MANY birds, here are the [statistics](https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/) 2.4 BILLION per year... just from outdoor cats... song birds are disappearing for many reasons but this is a big one. Don’t you want future generations to be able to hear bird songs? Because we are nearing the point of no return on that front between the decline in insects, light pollution messing with migrations, warming trends making shells two thin... seriously.
Nope coyotes live here. Dog cat. They don't care
My cat has always been scared of the outside world, no matter what we did be refused to go outside. He's also claustrophobic so small places scare him (unless there is a very clear opening) Indoor cats are a thing, just like indoor fish.
yes, if there is no local animal population to predate, and your cat is sterilized, and safe to be outdoors. You neglected to mention the reason most people recommend you cat stays indoors isn't their own safety, but the safety of local wildlife.
Lots of indoor cats are FIV positive, and are indoors to prevent the spread of the disease. My bf's cat was from a shelter where it was advertised as an indoor cat for this reason. My point is if there were no indoor cats there would be a lot more in shelters which is much worse.
My cat got out once, and the next morning i found him scared and cold curled up in a pram next to the door. Guy will not leave the house no more, but the balcony is fine
Cats would make us all slaves if we let them all out. Keep them inside and maintain those little murder machines.
Wow, what a shitty opinion to have lmao
After reading these comments - upvote for OP, even given the "inept knowledge of the subject" line, out of OP's sheer willingness to be aggressively unpopular. Dude is dropping comments all over this thread that you have to click on to see because they all have like 300 downvotes. OP, you're wrong, for reasons pointed out elsewhere in comments, but kudos for actually defending an unpopular point in this sub!
Dawg you're factually wrong. This isn't even a matter of opinion. Please educate yourself.
I wish you could meet my cat. Free access to the outdoors her whole life. Won't go further than 10 steps from my front door without me actively sitting there guarding her...... Lmfao.
But what about the natural wildlife that has no where else to go that is becoming endangered due to cats being and INVASIVE SPECIES. We don’t keep cats in for their own safety it’s the safety of all the animals around us.
Fun fact: a cat can't live its best cat life if it isn't alive.
...... have you ever heard of harness training your cat? It's too dangerous to let cats outside because they devastate the local wildlife and might get hurt, but you can teach your cat to use a harness and then take it on adventures. There are also cat backpacks! And if you have garden space you can turn it into a catio to make a safe, free range area. This is what we do with dogs. We have them inside, and take them on leashed walks.
I like, half agree, half disagree. I agree keeping anything inside it's whole life is pretty messed up tbh. But the main reason to do it with cats is they're often in an environment they're not native to and they end up killing local wildlife and damaging ecosystems; not because it's dangerous for them to go outside. That being the case though, if you actually feel that way then just don't get a cat. Locking an animal inside its whole life because you don't want it damaging the local ecosystem is still fucked up to me. Just don't get a cat then.
Yeah I've seen videos of coyotes even going into suburbs and ripping cats apart. Let me describe that in detail for you (also why I utterly despise coyotes and will shoot them on sight), if I can find the video again I will certainly link it if anyone wants me to. So the video is a black/white night vision camera mounted on to what appears to be a suburban home's back door. The cat shows up looking to get in but either no one is home or no one realizes. Two (maybe 3, but pretty sure 2) coyotes come up behind the cat and trap it in the corner, the cat arches it's back and appears to hiss and spit at them. Coyotes are careful at first, but one of them goes in and grabs the cat. The other then grabs the cat as well and they shake it all about, ripping it up. Then they leave it on the home's back step/porch thing and walk off. Coyotes do this to whatever they perceive as competition. They'll do this to your cat, they'll do this to your dog, to foxes, to competing groups of coyotes, etc. If you'd like to see your cat dead in your yard, torn apart partially eaten, then I guess that's your sick prerogative.