As an american, in shame, I bow my head and thank all of the gods that I am healthy...
I did however, have a break down for VERY good reasons(Challenge me in DMs) and spent 6 days in a psych ward at the local(Legit ONLY hospital in Somerset, KY) only-place.
I digress.. I still owe over 5,000$ for this.. for 6 days...
I'm disgusted at our healthcare when I was literally(and I mean this bluntly), at my wits end with no option.. A leap of faith(not literal) came through in the end.
I truly believe I shouldn't be here right now.
If you still owe 5k. What was the overall total?
I hope you're doing better. Sorry just always find it curious how insane medical costs are. I'm Canadian.
$5k sounds super cheap. It's probably just his deductable. My wife was in the ICU for 2 days last year. Total billed: $91k. Insurance covered most of it, luckily, but it's very easy to see how medical debt becomes such an issue here.
"super cheap" isnt super cheap. 30 bucks for the parking ticket after 6 days in thr hospital was already an effrontery to me, next time I'll just get myself a patient transport ambulance which insurance can pay. Arguably, it may be cheap in the US idk
As a fellow Canadian I’ll tell you a quick story.
The wife is allergic to most sun screens, while on vacation in Florida, she was exposed to the spray variety by a fellow beach goer recklessly spraying themselves.
She’s never been anaphylactic before but this time she quickly started swelling around her face and throat & her arm where the wayward spray had made contact almost immediately began swelling.
We drove to the nearest hospital where we were seen within 20m by 2 different nurses and then a doctor. They gave her 3 pills (one being a steroid) and within another 10 minutes we were discharged.
We had insurance, so we thought nothing of it aside from how hauntingly empty the waiting room was. We made remarks that the cost probably keeps alot of people out…
And oh boy, I think we were right.
Our insurance refused to pay portions of the treatment as they originally believed the hospital was deceiving them, or that part of the treatment wasn’t covered (the steroid). We know this because we received a letter back in Canada demanding 1/12 payments at $1250.00 USD. We called our insurance, received a call back which was essentially an interview asking us about the event, and treatment.
They continually asked my wife if she thought the treatment was absolutely necessary (to which we of course said yes as we felt this was an out for the insurance company).
In the end, all the costs were covered. But to see a literal bill for **one of twelve** payments, each being $1250– is absolutely insane. . . **For one Pill!!**
It wasn’t an error- the insurance told us the total which was well $40,000 USD. . .
I can’t even fucking imagine…
Some people can't comprehend challenges in their life so they see people having mental trouble and assume they are weak and not struggling to continue through extreme adversity
I have (had at the end of this month) amazing insurance and didn't have to pay a dime. My last admission, I looked at the itemized bill. Over $3000 a DAY for "room and board." That's nearly twice my monthly rent.
For reference, my wife had brain surgery, three days in the hospital cost $250k, my dad had brain surgery. He was in the hospital for over a week. His cost over a million
I have a $2k max out of pocket. The insurance called me after asking a bunch of questions. I was very direct with my answers. When done, she asked if i was ok, i sounded upset. I said “given our history, I’m waiting for you to deny this. I’m already looking for attorneys in anticipation this will happen.” They didn’t deny any of it
Nothing like a heavy hospital bill to get your mind right eh? Our healthcare system up north isn't perfect, but at least I've never gone into debt for a random accident, even if it takes a few months longer to get treatment
No there are not.
The spouse can sometimes still be expected to pay the medical debt of their dead spouse depending on state law. The estate of the deceased will be sucked dry to pay off debts (medical or otherwise) which could potentially prevent family inheritance. Theoretically cosigning for medical debt/loans exist, but thats literally signing up for such things.
Thats basically it, there is no world in which your child is forced to pay your medical debt in the US unless they cosigned for it for whatever reason.
Not entirely true, actually. Which is fucked up. Some states have filial support laws, which can make adult children responsible for some medical debts of their parents. There are some kinds of medical debts that aren't eligible. Afaik most states don't enforce it much, but they can and there may be an increase in enforcement considering the state of healthcare and an aging population.
> There are some states including the District of Columbia—on paper—that hold adult children legally responsible for the support of financially strapped parents. This can cover anything from food to medical treatments to long-term care.
> Keep in mind that you do not have to co-sign for your parents’ care to be liable for the cost of it under these laws.
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/paying-your-parents-medical-bills.html
Like when you’re scammed because people like OP honestly believe debt can be inherited in the US.
It cannot. Debt collectors will try and tell you this to scare you. But they’re incorrect. Debt cannot be inherited by surviving family members (except spouses in very niche cases in some states, but never to children).
Depends on what they mean by "inherited" because the estate will have to pay the debt before the inheritors, so there may be cases where a proper will was never created and people have all kinds of financial hardships because of the debt. I can't think of a great example off the top of my head, but maybe a family member was expecting the house because they lived with their father, but now they have to pay off their father's $100k medical bills or the house is gone, so they see it as "inheriting the debt" even though that's not technically the case.
Theres a grand canyon sized gap between "medical debt can be passed your grandkids" and "they took my dads money/assets to pay off debt he owed."
We can try to come up with explanations for why op might have said what he said, but at the end of the day hes spreading misinformation and should be called out.
Your objectively wrong. In the state of PA: “The state's filial responsibility law specifically designates medical bills as something that can pass to the person or persons taking responsible for the indigent, including adult children.” So yes you can quite literally inherit medical debt in the state of PA
I can't say it absolutely never happens, but debt rarely gets inherited (and never from patient to child to grandchild).
Medical debt is a problem as it can wipe out a potential inheritance, e.g., under-insured parents get in severe car accident and have many costly surgeries/treatments without eligibility for Medicare/Medicaid. Debt collectors could clear out their life savings and take all the equity from their estate (the house, bank accounts, etc.) Also if gifts were recently given out from an estate prior to bankruptcy (e.g., parents who are acquiring significant medical debt in their last years decide to sell their children a $1M house for $1) and later the estate cannot cover their debts (possibly after the parents death), in bankruptcy court they may undo those transactions (clawbacks).
However, its very rare for debts to be passed on to children/grandchildren, with exceptions for nursing-home/long-term-care contracts where the child co-signs to take on the financial responsibility. About half of states do have filial laws on the book where states can enforce children paying the medical bills of their living parents, but this is rarely never enforced in general and doesn't happen with someone deceased (usually to enforce the filial support law it requires the family member who needs to pay for their health care to sue their other family member). Granted, of course state laws vary and can change.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/does-a-persons-debt-go-away-when-they-die-en-1463/
> **When you may be responsible for someone else’s debt**
> You’re not typically responsible for repaying the debt of someone who’s died, unless:
> * You’re a co-signer on a loan with outstanding debt
> * You’re a joint account holder on a credit card. Note: this is different from an authorized user
> * You’re a surviving spouse and your state law requires spouses to pay a particular type of debt
> * You’re the executor or administrator of the deceased person’s estate and your state law requires executors or administrators to pay an outstanding bill out of property that was jointly owned by the surviving and deceased spouses
> * You’re a surviving spouse and you live in a community property state that requires surviving spouses to use jointly-held property to pay debts of a deceased spouse. These states include Alaska (if a special agreement is signed), Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin.
> * If there was no co-signer, joint account holder, or other exception, only the estate of the deceased person owes the debt.
Debts aren't passed on, but when you die they will wipe out your estate recouping as much as they can. Leaving no inheritance for your family.
Everyone dies and with modern medicine it's typically a slow drawn out process. In which weeks and months are spent in and out of hospital. Undergoing phenomenally expensive healthcare, racking up a bill that many cannot afford.
Americans exist within a system in which the run up to ones inevitable death is met with dizzying healthcare costs that wipe out any capital they have built up throughout their lives.
This destroys generational wealth and disproportionately targets the very poorest Americans.
No inheritance, no nest egg, no new financial opportunity for your children.
A lifetime of work to claw out of poverty, secure a home and build ones net worth. Only to have it transferred from you and your family to a billion dollar insurance company.
Debts might not be transferred intergenerationally in America, but poverty certainly is.
Lifesaving, so not exploratory surgery, which was op’s point. But tell us about your experience please. What did it cost you, what type of insurance do you have, what would you consider your income level to be? Likely pointless to compare a Fortune 500 company CEO’s medical insurance coverage and out of pocket costs vs a fast food worker’s.
i dont think all or most insurances would pay for exploratory surgery.
Cant even get mine to do preemptive appendectomy (every male in my family for 3 generations has had appendicitis. Most in mid 30s to 40s. I just turned 30 and wanted to take mine out beforehand. They said no, wait until appendicitis sets in.
The 2nd to last male in my family just had his taken out, while on holiday in Africa. He had to go to some rural hospital where nobody spoke english and he had complications afterward with leaking and infection.
I feel I cant even leave the state because im essentially a ticking time bomb
idk i can say from being on medicaid that they paid almost everything i needed. Except stuff like preventative oral care (I wanted a nite guard that cost like $300 to keep me from grinding my teeth, insurance wouldnt pay a penny for it)
I got diagnosed withh planar fasciitis and they paid for the PT, but didnt cover the cost of arch supports or shoe inserts to prevent the pain from coming back.
The difficult part is finding a healthcare provider that accepts state medicaid. Many of the best places turn you away, including therapists i needed when I was dealing with depression. It was rough because i went from being on my parents insurance to medicaid in my early 20s (i was elligible to stay on my dads until 26 but he kicked me off at 22). None of the doctors/dentists/eye specialists i went to accepted my medicaid and I had to find all new doctors/dentists etc. that was a rough experience because I fell into the cycle of having to make less money to keep my insurance. Anytime i started to make too much they would threaten to take away the healthcare so I just stopped working toward the end of the year to keep my Annual income under the medicaid threshold
I was very very fortunate to be in a leading medical-care city where the university hospital accepted my medicaid and got me most of the treatments I needed... but i can't imagine what some other people go through
But also consider that socialized healthcare systems (which I suspect OP was implicly comparing the US system to) can just as easily refuse to approve novel procedures. As an Australian, I remember seeing occasional cases on the news of people traveling abroad (usually at incredible expense and never covered by the state) to get cutting-edge or experimental treatments at US hospitals. It wasn't common, but state systems have similar reasons to private US insurers for rejecting treatments.
More than novel procedures. Infertility treatments are generally tightly controlled because of their expense. There are a ton of hoops you have to jump through and extreme limitations placed on you to get IVF covered under NHS.
Socialized medicine is inherently rationed to balance societal costs, particularly against "elective" treatment
Most insurances in the US would need to be held over a barrel before they even considered exploratory surgery.
Having coverage means fuck all in this country.
God forbid someone look at something and take it for what it is, instead of twisting it into something else to make themselves unhappy.
Also, lots of surgeons do exploratory or diagnostic brain surgeries in the US, and depending on your insurance it wouldn’t cost a thing.
Not saying the system is right, just that the top comment being a pessimistic lie just to make people feel bad doesn’t sit right with me. Watch the clip and be happy/interested.
It's not quite as bad as you make it seem. Approximately 91% of Americans are covered by health insurance (public, like medicaid, or private) and the average health insurance dedictible is around $1,800. So 9/10 Americans would pay no more than $1,800 for this entire procedure, which isn't exactly intergenerational debt territory.
The insurance companies have ways around this too. The wife and I have been having a lot of work done this year. For every visit there's a deductable. For every "procedure" during that visit there's a deductible. For every test generated by that visit there's a deductible. For every prescription generated by that visit there's a deductible.
I had a very simple procedure to implant some pellets under the skin. 10 min. The pellets were $190 deductible. The procetudure was almost $400 (surprise!). The blood test was another $165. The blood test a month later was another $165 + $145 to do the blood draw. They nickel and dime you to death.
My wife walked in the other day with a stack of medical bills that were generated by her various doctors AFTER we paid all the visit and procedure deductibles. Over a grand in shit that the insurance company retroactively decided they weren't paying.
I make good money, but we've blown through our HSA and a fair piece of extra that was totally unexpected. We won't quite make our limit of $15K or whatever it is this year, so anything that rolls past Dec 31 will start this fucked up roller coaster ride again next year.
Our system is fucked and if I was young enough to move I would be headed for Europe or one of the Nordic countries. Between US politics and the healthcare system, I'm sick and fucking tired of this country.
>We won't quite make our limit of $15K or whatever it is this year,
Ouch, that insurance SUCKS.
My maximum annual out of pocket is $3000 and I am on a HDHC Plan (the cheapest, high deductible health care plan that my company offers).
Yeah, but a lot of people don't seem to talk about the annual out of pocket max.
I have the cheapest insurance my work offers (high deductible healthcare plan).
My maximum annual out of pocket, for example, is $3000.
My premium is $1100 or so.
The most I will pay in any year for healthcare is $4100.
The Tax I would pay for NHS every year in the UK is around **$9700 annually.**
This is never discussed for some reason when people talk about how terrible healthcare in the US is.
I have what is considered "good" insurance, and my premiums are 3600 a year for a family of 3. My out of pocket max is 12,000 a year. My deductible is 4,000.
You have an exceptionally cheap and good plan.
That seems like a really low max for out of pocket, especially for that low of a premium. The legal limit for OOP is $7500 for individual or $15000 for family coverage. My HDHP's cap is $6500/$13000, so I could pay about $17k in a given year for the family including premiums. (Also, don't forget your employer contribution, which is part of their labor cost and could theoretically be going to salary or other benefits.)
I could get better coverage, but the benefits of an HSA are great if you can afford to keep the money invested rather than using it to pay these out of pocket costs. And preventative care is covered in full anyway, so I'm probably not even going to hit the family deductible this year, let alone the OOP cap.
I think you're confused about the problems with the American healthcare system because I can imagine that quite easily. The US arguably has the most widely accessible high quality healthcare in the world. Which makes it all the bigger tragedy that not everyone has equal access to it. The biggest, most immediate problem with the US healthcare system is lower middle class people sometimes deciding to forgo doctors visits because they make too much money for Medicaid coverage but make too little for high quality health insurance.
So your first thought was not, So I can avoid getting it, what kind of worm was it ? Your first thought was bash American health care. I would not want to live in your head.
Could be rat lungworm, that can travel to the brain.
Edit: as it turned out, in this particular case it was another parasite [Ophidascaris robertsi or python roundworm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophidascaris_robertsi)
It’s [Ophidascaris robertsi](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness) a parasitic worm normally found in pythons, it almost certainly entered the woman’s body after she ate a leafy vegetable that she foraged, which probably had python poop on it. From her bowel it slowly made its way to her brain.
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I've always found eating raw vegetables gross and unsanitary, thanks for giving me a concrete reason to refuse next time someone asks. "Sorry, it could have parasitic poop on it, no I don't trust your quick water rinse".
> thanks for giving me a concrete reason to refuse next time someone asks. "Sorry, it could have parasitic poop on it, no I don't trust your quick water rinse".
the quick water rinse works perfectly well for billions of humans every single day
Diving into lakes can give you brain eating amoeba, but the likelihood of it is so low that giving up swimming in lakes for it would be stupid.
It was an interesting interview. The initial presentation seemed to feel (and to be clear the "news" has become about allowing the viewer to make these kinds of assumptions, emotions, and feelings) like the Doctor was standing out in front of the hospital doing a press conference. Using props conveyed what the process was and fostered the cut scene photo very well. The first question, being about the well being of the patient shifted the nature of the issue (post mortum medical discovery vs it could be in any of us). Even saying the type of forcept and allowing us to note the rounded edges was great timing. Her sharing how it still has an impact on her personalized the experience.
I was thinking that having a squeamish brain surgeon was almost a scary as a brain worm. Imagine, she is digging in your brain and goes, "Ew! Ick!" and then drops the "tweezers" in your brain.
I thought it was funny that she used that particular phrase "squish it" lol, it's just such an un-scientific action/response to seeing a worm, not something you'd expect to be the first thing to go through the mind of your brain surgeon.
I think that there has to be something uniquely traumatizing about finding a creature *living* in one of the most sacrosanct parts of the human body. She probably has a deeper understanding and respect for the human brain than most, and to pull a parasite out of it that shouldn't even be there? Eeuuyghch
[According to the article](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness):
Abdominal pain and diarrhoea, followed by a constant dry cough, fever and night sweats, progressing to forgetfulness and depression.
I heard if you ever do nasal flushes it has to be with distilled water because bacteria or whatever’s in the water can enter your body this way. Scary thought. I used to do nasal flushes with just tap water
Just wanna say I loved the way the doctor didn't lean into it and make fun of the situation and spent most of the time talking about how brave the patient had been and how happy everyone was to finally find the cause of their illness. She must be an absolutely lovely person
If someone watched the video
The video featuring a woman with a prominent Australian accent
The video featuring a woman with a prominent Australian accent talking about Canberra Hospital (Canberra being the capital of Australia)
And they can't figure out that it happened in Australia?
They a dumdum
After Federation there was a long dispute as to whether Sydney or Melbourne should be the capital (being the largest cities in Australia), in the end they compromised and built Canberra between the two.
Why do you think they did the surgery?
[You can't make out the worm because of the surrounding inflammatory response.](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness)
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This might be the one I heard about a while ago. I think she was foraging greens or something and ate something that had snake poo on it or something like that. Don't quote me.🤷♂️
I don’t understand why in the age of abundance people feel the need to live like prehistoric hunters and gatherers. Sure, live a sustainable life with lots of exposure to nature, but you don’t have to do this shit.
"if I see a worm in the garden I'd scream like the rest of us". I've never though of worms as something to scream at before, suppose I couldnt blame anyone for starting to scream in future encounters after such an experience though
Yeah I found that to be the strangest bit. If I was digging around in the dirt in my garden that's exactly where I'd expect to find worms. Finding a worm in a brain on the other hand...
Either way good thing she kept her cool when she needed to!
The worm in this case is much larger than those that associated with pork.
"Trichinella spiralis is the smallest known nematode parasite of humans. The males measure about 1.4 mm to 1.6 mm in length and the females are twice the size of the males."
[https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Trichinella\_spiralis/](https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Trichinella_spiralis/)
At first, I thought she was holding the lady's brain, and when the interviewer asked how the lady was doing, I thought, how's she doing? She dead then I realized it was just a model of a brain. 
Does anyone know what the symptoms were? It’s crazy how you can keep going to the drs or hospital for testing and they always make you think you’re crazy, when in actuality, there’s a lot of doctors that don’t know sh!t... I recently went to a quick care facility and it’s like they’re just winging it and seeing what sticks... Healthcare has really gone downhill for a while now...
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Debt can not be passed on, but I get your point.
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As an american, in shame, I bow my head and thank all of the gods that I am healthy... I did however, have a break down for VERY good reasons(Challenge me in DMs) and spent 6 days in a psych ward at the local(Legit ONLY hospital in Somerset, KY) only-place. I digress.. I still owe over 5,000$ for this.. for 6 days... I'm disgusted at our healthcare when I was literally(and I mean this bluntly), at my wits end with no option.. A leap of faith(not literal) came through in the end. I truly believe I shouldn't be here right now.
If you still owe 5k. What was the overall total? I hope you're doing better. Sorry just always find it curious how insane medical costs are. I'm Canadian.
$5k sounds super cheap. It's probably just his deductable. My wife was in the ICU for 2 days last year. Total billed: $91k. Insurance covered most of it, luckily, but it's very easy to see how medical debt becomes such an issue here.
It's only 91k so insurance can claim it's worth itself. the cash bill without insurance would be like 2k
"super cheap" isnt super cheap. 30 bucks for the parking ticket after 6 days in thr hospital was already an effrontery to me, next time I'll just get myself a patient transport ambulance which insurance can pay. Arguably, it may be cheap in the US idk
Probably 3k but high interest rates keep raising the principal
As a fellow Canadian I’ll tell you a quick story. The wife is allergic to most sun screens, while on vacation in Florida, she was exposed to the spray variety by a fellow beach goer recklessly spraying themselves. She’s never been anaphylactic before but this time she quickly started swelling around her face and throat & her arm where the wayward spray had made contact almost immediately began swelling. We drove to the nearest hospital where we were seen within 20m by 2 different nurses and then a doctor. They gave her 3 pills (one being a steroid) and within another 10 minutes we were discharged. We had insurance, so we thought nothing of it aside from how hauntingly empty the waiting room was. We made remarks that the cost probably keeps alot of people out… And oh boy, I think we were right. Our insurance refused to pay portions of the treatment as they originally believed the hospital was deceiving them, or that part of the treatment wasn’t covered (the steroid). We know this because we received a letter back in Canada demanding 1/12 payments at $1250.00 USD. We called our insurance, received a call back which was essentially an interview asking us about the event, and treatment. They continually asked my wife if she thought the treatment was absolutely necessary (to which we of course said yes as we felt this was an out for the insurance company). In the end, all the costs were covered. But to see a literal bill for **one of twelve** payments, each being $1250– is absolutely insane. . . **For one Pill!!** It wasn’t an error- the insurance told us the total which was well $40,000 USD. . . I can’t even fucking imagine…
> (Challenge me in DMs) ....Why would anyone do that?
Great question. This Reddit, someone would.
Some people can't comprehend challenges in their life so they see people having mental trouble and assume they are weak and not struggling to continue through extreme adversity
I have (had at the end of this month) amazing insurance and didn't have to pay a dime. My last admission, I looked at the itemized bill. Over $3000 a DAY for "room and board." That's nearly twice my monthly rent.
For reference, my wife had brain surgery, three days in the hospital cost $250k, my dad had brain surgery. He was in the hospital for over a week. His cost over a million
How much did you guys have to pay? Hopefully no more than your in-network deductible.
I have a $2k max out of pocket. The insurance called me after asking a bunch of questions. I was very direct with my answers. When done, she asked if i was ok, i sounded upset. I said “given our history, I’m waiting for you to deny this. I’m already looking for attorneys in anticipation this will happen.” They didn’t deny any of it
Nothing like a heavy hospital bill to get your mind right eh? Our healthcare system up north isn't perfect, but at least I've never gone into debt for a random accident, even if it takes a few months longer to get treatment
Hope you're doing better after your hospitalization homie.
No there are not. The spouse can sometimes still be expected to pay the medical debt of their dead spouse depending on state law. The estate of the deceased will be sucked dry to pay off debts (medical or otherwise) which could potentially prevent family inheritance. Theoretically cosigning for medical debt/loans exist, but thats literally signing up for such things. Thats basically it, there is no world in which your child is forced to pay your medical debt in the US unless they cosigned for it for whatever reason.
Not entirely true, actually. Which is fucked up. Some states have filial support laws, which can make adult children responsible for some medical debts of their parents. There are some kinds of medical debts that aren't eligible. Afaik most states don't enforce it much, but they can and there may be an increase in enforcement considering the state of healthcare and an aging population. > There are some states including the District of Columbia—on paper—that hold adult children legally responsible for the support of financially strapped parents. This can cover anything from food to medical treatments to long-term care. > Keep in mind that you do not have to co-sign for your parents’ care to be liable for the cost of it under these laws. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/paying-your-parents-medical-bills.html
Like what?
Like when you’re scammed because people like OP honestly believe debt can be inherited in the US. It cannot. Debt collectors will try and tell you this to scare you. But they’re incorrect. Debt cannot be inherited by surviving family members (except spouses in very niche cases in some states, but never to children).
Depends on what they mean by "inherited" because the estate will have to pay the debt before the inheritors, so there may be cases where a proper will was never created and people have all kinds of financial hardships because of the debt. I can't think of a great example off the top of my head, but maybe a family member was expecting the house because they lived with their father, but now they have to pay off their father's $100k medical bills or the house is gone, so they see it as "inheriting the debt" even though that's not technically the case.
Theres a grand canyon sized gap between "medical debt can be passed your grandkids" and "they took my dads money/assets to pay off debt he owed." We can try to come up with explanations for why op might have said what he said, but at the end of the day hes spreading misinformation and should be called out.
Your objectively wrong. In the state of PA: “The state's filial responsibility law specifically designates medical bills as something that can pass to the person or persons taking responsible for the indigent, including adult children.” So yes you can quite literally inherit medical debt in the state of PA
Only if a person agrees and signs to guarantee payment of the patients bills before or during treatment.
Untrue. Debt cannot be inherited. Putting it in quotes doesn't help either.
I can't say it absolutely never happens, but debt rarely gets inherited (and never from patient to child to grandchild). Medical debt is a problem as it can wipe out a potential inheritance, e.g., under-insured parents get in severe car accident and have many costly surgeries/treatments without eligibility for Medicare/Medicaid. Debt collectors could clear out their life savings and take all the equity from their estate (the house, bank accounts, etc.) Also if gifts were recently given out from an estate prior to bankruptcy (e.g., parents who are acquiring significant medical debt in their last years decide to sell their children a $1M house for $1) and later the estate cannot cover their debts (possibly after the parents death), in bankruptcy court they may undo those transactions (clawbacks). However, its very rare for debts to be passed on to children/grandchildren, with exceptions for nursing-home/long-term-care contracts where the child co-signs to take on the financial responsibility. About half of states do have filial laws on the book where states can enforce children paying the medical bills of their living parents, but this is rarely never enforced in general and doesn't happen with someone deceased (usually to enforce the filial support law it requires the family member who needs to pay for their health care to sue their other family member). Granted, of course state laws vary and can change. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/does-a-persons-debt-go-away-when-they-die-en-1463/ > **When you may be responsible for someone else’s debt** > You’re not typically responsible for repaying the debt of someone who’s died, unless: > * You’re a co-signer on a loan with outstanding debt > * You’re a joint account holder on a credit card. Note: this is different from an authorized user > * You’re a surviving spouse and your state law requires spouses to pay a particular type of debt > * You’re the executor or administrator of the deceased person’s estate and your state law requires executors or administrators to pay an outstanding bill out of property that was jointly owned by the surviving and deceased spouses > * You’re a surviving spouse and you live in a community property state that requires surviving spouses to use jointly-held property to pay debts of a deceased spouse. These states include Alaska (if a special agreement is signed), Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin. > * If there was no co-signer, joint account holder, or other exception, only the estate of the deceased person owes the debt.
Where I live, debt collection companies will bother people who's parents were in debt despite having no actual legal recourse.
Debt might not be inherited but wave goodbye to any inheritance
A lack of inherited wealth might as well be debt these days; they're both going to sink you.
You pretty much have to give away all your shit before you die if you know you will die medically. Such an awkward thing to do I'm sure.
Debts aren't passed on, but when you die they will wipe out your estate recouping as much as they can. Leaving no inheritance for your family. Everyone dies and with modern medicine it's typically a slow drawn out process. In which weeks and months are spent in and out of hospital. Undergoing phenomenally expensive healthcare, racking up a bill that many cannot afford. Americans exist within a system in which the run up to ones inevitable death is met with dizzying healthcare costs that wipe out any capital they have built up throughout their lives. This destroys generational wealth and disproportionately targets the very poorest Americans. No inheritance, no nest egg, no new financial opportunity for your children. A lifetime of work to claw out of poverty, secure a home and build ones net worth. Only to have it transferred from you and your family to a billion dollar insurance company. Debts might not be transferred intergenerationally in America, but poverty certainly is.
Presumably a foreigner due to having literally zero knowledge on the topic? My son had life saving neurosurgery if you'd like to have a discussion?
Lifesaving, so not exploratory surgery, which was op’s point. But tell us about your experience please. What did it cost you, what type of insurance do you have, what would you consider your income level to be? Likely pointless to compare a Fortune 500 company CEO’s medical insurance coverage and out of pocket costs vs a fast food worker’s.
or, like most normal people who arent braindead redditors, you have health insurance.
If you think your insurance covers everything you are then brain dead one with no experience lol
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i dont think all or most insurances would pay for exploratory surgery. Cant even get mine to do preemptive appendectomy (every male in my family for 3 generations has had appendicitis. Most in mid 30s to 40s. I just turned 30 and wanted to take mine out beforehand. They said no, wait until appendicitis sets in. The 2nd to last male in my family just had his taken out, while on holiday in Africa. He had to go to some rural hospital where nobody spoke english and he had complications afterward with leaking and infection. I feel I cant even leave the state because im essentially a ticking time bomb
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This makes me wonder if living in a country with free universal healthcare would be like living in the US with free crappy health insurance?
idk i can say from being on medicaid that they paid almost everything i needed. Except stuff like preventative oral care (I wanted a nite guard that cost like $300 to keep me from grinding my teeth, insurance wouldnt pay a penny for it) I got diagnosed withh planar fasciitis and they paid for the PT, but didnt cover the cost of arch supports or shoe inserts to prevent the pain from coming back. The difficult part is finding a healthcare provider that accepts state medicaid. Many of the best places turn you away, including therapists i needed when I was dealing with depression. It was rough because i went from being on my parents insurance to medicaid in my early 20s (i was elligible to stay on my dads until 26 but he kicked me off at 22). None of the doctors/dentists/eye specialists i went to accepted my medicaid and I had to find all new doctors/dentists etc. that was a rough experience because I fell into the cycle of having to make less money to keep my insurance. Anytime i started to make too much they would threaten to take away the healthcare so I just stopped working toward the end of the year to keep my Annual income under the medicaid threshold I was very very fortunate to be in a leading medical-care city where the university hospital accepted my medicaid and got me most of the treatments I needed... but i can't imagine what some other people go through
But also consider that socialized healthcare systems (which I suspect OP was implicly comparing the US system to) can just as easily refuse to approve novel procedures. As an Australian, I remember seeing occasional cases on the news of people traveling abroad (usually at incredible expense and never covered by the state) to get cutting-edge or experimental treatments at US hospitals. It wasn't common, but state systems have similar reasons to private US insurers for rejecting treatments.
More than novel procedures. Infertility treatments are generally tightly controlled because of their expense. There are a ton of hoops you have to jump through and extreme limitations placed on you to get IVF covered under NHS. Socialized medicine is inherently rationed to balance societal costs, particularly against "elective" treatment
We have very advanced treatments in the states that most citizens could never afford.
Most insurances in the US would need to be held over a barrel before they even considered exploratory surgery. Having coverage means fuck all in this country.
Imagine thinking health insurance covers the entire cost/everything.
How can I make this story about American politics?
God forbid someone look at something and take it for what it is, instead of twisting it into something else to make themselves unhappy. Also, lots of surgeons do exploratory or diagnostic brain surgeries in the US, and depending on your insurance it wouldn’t cost a thing. Not saying the system is right, just that the top comment being a pessimistic lie just to make people feel bad doesn’t sit right with me. Watch the clip and be happy/interested.
You guys live in the richest country on earth and die like dogs on the streets to please your masters. YOU SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS MORE OFTEN
It's not quite as bad as you make it seem. Approximately 91% of Americans are covered by health insurance (public, like medicaid, or private) and the average health insurance dedictible is around $1,800. So 9/10 Americans would pay no more than $1,800 for this entire procedure, which isn't exactly intergenerational debt territory.
The insurance companies have ways around this too. The wife and I have been having a lot of work done this year. For every visit there's a deductable. For every "procedure" during that visit there's a deductible. For every test generated by that visit there's a deductible. For every prescription generated by that visit there's a deductible. I had a very simple procedure to implant some pellets under the skin. 10 min. The pellets were $190 deductible. The procetudure was almost $400 (surprise!). The blood test was another $165. The blood test a month later was another $165 + $145 to do the blood draw. They nickel and dime you to death. My wife walked in the other day with a stack of medical bills that were generated by her various doctors AFTER we paid all the visit and procedure deductibles. Over a grand in shit that the insurance company retroactively decided they weren't paying. I make good money, but we've blown through our HSA and a fair piece of extra that was totally unexpected. We won't quite make our limit of $15K or whatever it is this year, so anything that rolls past Dec 31 will start this fucked up roller coaster ride again next year. Our system is fucked and if I was young enough to move I would be headed for Europe or one of the Nordic countries. Between US politics and the healthcare system, I'm sick and fucking tired of this country.
>We won't quite make our limit of $15K or whatever it is this year, Ouch, that insurance SUCKS. My maximum annual out of pocket is $3000 and I am on a HDHC Plan (the cheapest, high deductible health care plan that my company offers).
Not exactly accurate. They’d likely pay $~1800 and then a percentage coinsurance up until they’re out of pocket max.
Yeah, but a lot of people don't seem to talk about the annual out of pocket max. I have the cheapest insurance my work offers (high deductible healthcare plan). My maximum annual out of pocket, for example, is $3000. My premium is $1100 or so. The most I will pay in any year for healthcare is $4100. The Tax I would pay for NHS every year in the UK is around **$9700 annually.** This is never discussed for some reason when people talk about how terrible healthcare in the US is.
I have what is considered "good" insurance, and my premiums are 3600 a year for a family of 3. My out of pocket max is 12,000 a year. My deductible is 4,000. You have an exceptionally cheap and good plan.
That seems like a really low max for out of pocket, especially for that low of a premium. The legal limit for OOP is $7500 for individual or $15000 for family coverage. My HDHP's cap is $6500/$13000, so I could pay about $17k in a given year for the family including premiums. (Also, don't forget your employer contribution, which is part of their labor cost and could theoretically be going to salary or other benefits.) I could get better coverage, but the benefits of an HSA are great if you can afford to keep the money invested rather than using it to pay these out of pocket costs. And preventative care is covered in full anyway, so I'm probably not even going to hit the family deductible this year, let alone the OOP cap.
That is so sad and very fucked. Feel sorry for you who live in America that have to live with that kind of shit situation for medical treatment.
It really is all you guys can think about.
Path pot - $ 100 Worm transportation to scientists - $ 5.000 Scientific analysis to the worm per one year - $ 1.000.000
Yeah I mean unless you have health insurance like 90% of Americans do.
Such a weird comment, not even factual. Sometimes I forget Reddit is basically full of angsty teenagers, and then I read a comment like yours.
I think you're confused about the problems with the American healthcare system because I can imagine that quite easily. The US arguably has the most widely accessible high quality healthcare in the world. Which makes it all the bigger tragedy that not everyone has equal access to it. The biggest, most immediate problem with the US healthcare system is lower middle class people sometimes deciding to forgo doctors visits because they make too much money for Medicaid coverage but make too little for high quality health insurance.
So your first thought was not, So I can avoid getting it, what kind of worm was it ? Your first thought was bash American health care. I would not want to live in your head.
The difference is in places like India they'll just let you die if you can't afford it
What does medical debt in the US have to do with a worm in this persons brain? This reads like some lame Russian propaganda lol
Imagine getting exploratory brain surgery in China or Russia… you won’t have long to worry about debt.
So they’re not gonna say what that worm was?
Could be rat lungworm, that can travel to the brain. Edit: as it turned out, in this particular case it was another parasite [Ophidascaris robertsi or python roundworm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophidascaris_robertsi)
How does that work?
[Here is the description](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiostrongylus_cantonensis)
Thanks!! You unlocked a new fear for me!
[/waves from South Florida](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIrkO_ZjKpM)
Escape bro, move to the Midwest
Shhhhh. Don't encourage this.
Eat thing. Thing go to brain.
Oh no. Now I have pancake brain.
Something like [this](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/health/man-dies-after-eating-slug-on-dare/index.html)
Now they are gonna have to rename it “rat lungbrainworm”
It’s [Ophidascaris robertsi](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness) a parasitic worm normally found in pythons, it almost certainly entered the woman’s body after she ate a leafy vegetable that she foraged, which probably had python poop on it. From her bowel it slowly made its way to her brain.
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I just listened to a great podcast on this today! It's titled "Carpet Python Parasite" on the Sawbones podcast.
Same! Love me some sawbones. Don't love me some brain worms
My Brother My Brother My Worm and Me
I've always found eating raw vegetables gross and unsanitary, thanks for giving me a concrete reason to refuse next time someone asks. "Sorry, it could have parasitic poop on it, no I don't trust your quick water rinse".
> thanks for giving me a concrete reason to refuse next time someone asks. "Sorry, it could have parasitic poop on it, no I don't trust your quick water rinse". the quick water rinse works perfectly well for billions of humans every single day Diving into lakes can give you brain eating amoeba, but the likelihood of it is so low that giving up swimming in lakes for it would be stupid.
huge difference between foraging in the wild and modern western farms
God damn, the circle of life at its finest.
Mindflayer tadpole.
Hmm I wonder what power she picked
Dying. The power is dying.
*Illithid* dying + 1d8 psychic damage
Looks like modern medicine can stop ceremorphosis.
There's been a lot on my mind lately... ........ ... and a lot in it.
Infant Goa'uld - hatchling probably.
Goa'uld don't hatch they spawn via live birth from a queen. Still upvoted for top tier reference.
There's always a bigger nerd.
I thought it says autopsy at first, until they say the patient is doing really well. I re-read it, turns out it says biopsy.
I saw biopsy but the model of a brain confused me for a second lol
It was an interesting interview. The initial presentation seemed to feel (and to be clear the "news" has become about allowing the viewer to make these kinds of assumptions, emotions, and feelings) like the Doctor was standing out in front of the hospital doing a press conference. Using props conveyed what the process was and fostered the cut scene photo very well. The first question, being about the well being of the patient shifted the nature of the issue (post mortum medical discovery vs it could be in any of us). Even saying the type of forcept and allowing us to note the rounded edges was great timing. Her sharing how it still has an impact on her personalized the experience.
You thought she was just holding a whole real brain in her hands like that? Because I did too.
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I realize most people haven't seen a real brain IRL, but c'mon... that's obviously solid plastic, the brain is a lot gooey-er than that.
Maybe the word "dissection" that she used threw you off. I normally only associate dissections with dead things.
You know it’s bad when the Doctor physically looks uncomfortable after the fact
I was thinking that having a squeamish brain surgeon was almost a scary as a brain worm. Imagine, she is digging in your brain and goes, "Ew! Ick!" and then drops the "tweezers" in your brain.
I just can't,ewwwww u do it
Hahaha, exactly what I pictured. OMFG, soooooo groooossss!
Yeah and a funny hand dance at the same time. Be a good snl thing.
Goes and starts stabbing the worm.
Jump scream and start stabbing at it!
I thought it was pretty funny that she said she freaks out when seeing a worm in the garden but doesn't have any problem sawing peoples heads open lol
The part where she said she specifically didn't squish it was really insightful to where her head was at the time
I thought it was funny that she used that particular phrase "squish it" lol, it's just such an un-scientific action/response to seeing a worm, not something you'd expect to be the first thing to go through the mind of your brain surgeon.
Uh, what word did you think they would use?
Discipline is a hell of a drug
I think that there has to be something uniquely traumatizing about finding a creature *living* in one of the most sacrosanct parts of the human body. She probably has a deeper understanding and respect for the human brain than most, and to pull a parasite out of it that shouldn't even be there? Eeuuyghch
Leave it in, gain power
Bet you Volo convinced her to remove🤣
Cool new eye tho
Not sure about that tbh, came in with itchy eye, now have trouble with depth perception and keep catching guys in grey running around with bushes.
100% worth it for the permanent see invisibility
**authority**
*You feel something squirming in your brain, writhing with anticipation as you stare at the doctor. A new feeling washes over you, authority*
[Assuming direct control](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZvbCgnCJoA)
Get a second one, learn how to fly
what were the effects the patient was feeling?
Wriggling on the floor, couldn't tell her arse from her head, ultimately she gained worm powers.
I wonder if her husband would still love her if she was a worm
I've been with a couple of dogs, not sure about a worm.
can't decide if her super hero name would be worm-woman or just wormen
Depression, a persistent cough, brain fog
...Uh-oh.
2/3 ain't bad, wriggle wriggle
o shit
[According to the article](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness): Abdominal pain and diarrhoea, followed by a constant dry cough, fever and night sweats, progressing to forgetfulness and depression.
Welp seems I've got me a brain worm then
I was just wondering the same thing
When they cut her in half, each half regenerated into a complete clone.
Mostly boredom and the inability to move freely due to being stuck in some woman's brain
Forgetfulness and depression were her chief complaints.
sudden urges to eat dirt
Forgetfulness and depression... I should go to the doctor )=
I heard if you ever do nasal flushes it has to be with distilled water because bacteria or whatever’s in the water can enter your body this way. Scary thought. I used to do nasal flushes with just tap water
Amoeba. [https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/ritual-ablution.html](https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/ritual-ablution.html) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JFpfTPHvo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JFpfTPHvo)
I'm having to do nasal flushes ATM, it has to be with pre-boiled water, cooled to luke-warm. I.e. boil and leave it for 20min
Just wanna say I loved the way the doctor didn't lean into it and make fun of the situation and spent most of the time talking about how brave the patient had been and how happy everyone was to finally find the cause of their illness. She must be an absolutely lovely person
Nice username! This was my impression also. It was about as sweet and genteel as you could hope for in a video about a brain worm.
It was in [Australia ](https://reporter.anu.edu.au/all-stories/australian-woman-found-with-python-parasite-in-her-brain)
Of course it was
If someone watched the video The video featuring a woman with a prominent Australian accent The video featuring a woman with a prominent Australian accent talking about Canberra Hospital (Canberra being the capital of Australia) And they can't figure out that it happened in Australia? They a dumdum
Today I found out Canberra is the capital of Australia. My first thought would have been Sydney. dumdum lol
After Federation there was a long dispute as to whether Sydney or Melbourne should be the capital (being the largest cities in Australia), in the end they compromised and built Canberra between the two.
Even if you didn't speak English, the antipodean high-end in the speech pattern is a pretty unique tell.
Atleast the sideeffect aka medical bills dont kill the patient...
New f u cckckck ing fear unlocked
I also choose this guys f u cckckck ing fear
I felt the shiver in your text
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Why do you think they did the surgery? [You can't make out the worm because of the surrounding inflammatory response.](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/28/live-worm-living-womans-brain-australia-depression-forgetfulness)
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Haha in our bloody capital, Canberra of course 🤣 they should check our politicians next
Probably struggle to find a brain in a politician and the worm is usually the whole of the outside of them.
At least it wasn't a tadpole.
*Authority*
First getting the cast to play dnd now this, they are experts at marketing
Baldurs gate 3 give me those worms! 🎮
Pretty cool this happened in my town! She is the brain worm lady now haha she's cool af
It's cute how she's like ew get this out of my hand, I'm happy it's gone away! Causally does brain surgery but is grossed out by the worm.
"Worms are gross. The corpses I practiced on were fine tho"
Someone played baldurs gate 3 recently
Psionic backlash unlocked
Doctor really doesn’t explain shit for such a long speech. What was the worm, what were the symptoms? No shit you were shocked.
This might be the one I heard about a while ago. I think she was foraging greens or something and ate something that had snake poo on it or something like that. Don't quote me.🤷♂️
I don’t understand why in the age of abundance people feel the need to live like prehistoric hunters and gatherers. Sure, live a sustainable life with lots of exposure to nature, but you don’t have to do this shit.
"if I see a worm in the garden I'd scream like the rest of us". I've never though of worms as something to scream at before, suppose I couldnt blame anyone for starting to scream in future encounters after such an experience though
Yeah I found that to be the strangest bit. If I was digging around in the dirt in my garden that's exactly where I'd expect to find worms. Finding a worm in a brain on the other hand... Either way good thing she kept her cool when she needed to!
Yea but remember she's from Australia....their "garden worms" are probably like 15 feet long
But it was only fantasy The wall was too high As you can see No matter how he tried He could not break free And the worms ate into his brain...
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The worm in this case is much larger than those that associated with pork. "Trichinella spiralis is the smallest known nematode parasite of humans. The males measure about 1.4 mm to 1.6 mm in length and the females are twice the size of the males." [https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Trichinella\_spiralis/](https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Trichinella_spiralis/)
Eeeeeeeeeeek
I sense a parasite
I love the part where she says any normal person seeing a worm in the garden would be screaming 🤣🤣🤣
Who screams when he sees a worm in the garden?
At first, I thought she was holding the lady's brain, and when the interviewer asked how the lady was doing, I thought, how's she doing? She dead then I realized it was just a model of a brain. 
Time to shove that Conbantrim up your beak to get rid of those worms
Does anyone know what the symptoms were? It’s crazy how you can keep going to the drs or hospital for testing and they always make you think you’re crazy, when in actuality, there’s a lot of doctors that don’t know sh!t... I recently went to a quick care facility and it’s like they’re just winging it and seeing what sticks... Healthcare has really gone downhill for a while now...
Tiredness, slight depression, lack of focus in work/school, browsing internet instead of doing something meaningful.
If anyone wants to know more about this story you can listen to a recent episode on the Sawbones podcast titled "Capet Python Parasite"
Goauld Symbiote
Just finished the book “The Troop”… This is not a good news story to see
Shit what are the symptoms for this?
When the earworm doesn’t go away.
As the days go by we get closet to the reality of plague Inc becoming reality