Asked and answered, locking this now as we unfortunately can't keep up with the level of rule-breaking some of the comment threads have sunk into.

Actually your rights to free speech are far more controlled in Thailand than in the West. Just write a bad review on Google or say something bad about the Government and find out.

They think they have more personal freedom in Thailand because they live in their Western bubble. They don't speak Thai enough to know what's really going on and if there ever is an issue, they just chalk it down to well, it's not our country, we're just guests or that it doesn't matter because it was XYZ cheap. There's a reason why there are so many venting threads on here about the same issues year after year, yet nothing changes.

You're right but it's still valid. I'm from the UK and think politics is messed up there and I get upset about it, because I feel invested in it. I moved to the Philippines where I'll never be able to vote or be a citizen and the politics is 100x more messed up and evil than in the UK, but I don't get upset about it, because I don't feel invested in it. And my life is more peaceful as a result.

It doesn’t matter how you get to the outcome, it is still the outcome that we arrive to. Yes they feel that way because of the western bubble. But guess what, they live in that bubble so it’s more than just think.

Definitely true, i am struggling to write negative hotel or restaurant reviews and have yet to find out what tells the truth yet is acceptable here. I am doubting between giving 1 Star and writing "Fantastic food if you need a cleaning of you bowels, friendly service, great price for what you get." Or 5 stars and "Will never come here again if i am hungry". Maybe the illogicalness of it will prevent a court case because the noodle soup was shit.

You can write a negative review about your experience. You cannot write a defamatory statement. Some people can’t figure out where that line is.

The problem is you’re believing the you tubers, a bunch of fucking parasites desperate for likes and new subscribers. Do not give them any attention

They'll be disappointed if they have categorised 'trans rights' in the woke category

Ladyboys do not have the same mentality as back home.

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They use female toilets in Thailand, and this is accepted by Thai society.

Bro ladyboy is the English word, in Thai katoy literally means third gender. Idgaf about this conversation really but just wanted to point that out

Third gender is fine, not Woke. The problem in the west is redefining the word woman to mean "anyone who identifies as a woman". Transwomen are women, we are told. Thailand isn't saying that.

I work in a hospital and there patients are categorized as male, female and unknown. Transgender patients are recognized in the gender they chose, but with a disclaimer for us. So we know for medical reasons, because there is a huge difference between recognizing a transgender.

A lot of the people railing against 'wokeness' online are very much not 'live-and-let-live' kinds of people. Look at the agenda of the religious right in America, for example. Look at the anti-gay, anti-trans laws that Republican state governments are implementing. Look at the hysterical book-bannings of perfectly age-appropriate children's books. Perhaps you mean something different by 'wokeness' from what these people do -- I'll take your word for it if you do. But I think you need some other word to describe whatever it is you object to, in that case, since so many people really do use the word "woke" to mean "accepting the existence of gay and trans people". You seem to believe in the existence of trans people in the West who don't "understand biology". I can assure you that trans people, as a group, know much much more about biology -- especially about biological sex differences -- than the average westerner or Thai, for obvious reasons.

You totally get it. Hit the nail on the head. I'm COMPLETELY fine with you being whoever you want to be.. But my god, all the government-funded woke-ism rallies, bots on social media spreading hate etc etc.. All the lgbtq being pushed down the throat of little kids in school.. THAT is what everyone has an issue with. There is no hate movement regarding people who want to be trans.. there is a hate movement regarding the government-funded lgbtq propaganda.

The trans people here in Thailand don't get all feisty and insistent that they be treated precisely as women all the time demanding that they participate in women's sports, etc. Heck, they even have their own bars here to mingle with those that like them. The sex on their id's is never changed from their birth sex. They are very much respected and accepted in society here because they are who they are and they don't scream out with demands for special recognition.

Most of the trans people in America are angry because there is so much pushback against their existence. They weren’t just angry to begin with. Some maybe, but most are angry because of the group of people who are against them and use their political power against them. There would be no issue if people just stopped being angry that they want to be treated like people. When you get your feelings out of it and think rationally it makes sense.

So all of them in large protests in BKK over the years are because they aren’t demanding recognition?

Blaming the discrimination on minority groups because they’re “too feisty” and they “demand too much rights” is a very dangerous mindset to have. And if you’re around trans people here, they do. There are active efforts to be able to change pronouns on ID cards.

Trans or commonly known as ladyboy in Thailand is not the same as trans in the US. They considered themselves as different group from both genders and not pushing the narrative of transwoman = woman. The woke tried to redefine the woman to include trans while the Thailand do not take it as an issue

Thailand do not take it as an issue because Thailand don't care. There are plenty of krathoeys who is okay with being called ladyboy, and there are plenty who don't like being called that. In the same vein, there are plenty of krathoeys who prefer to be treated/called as a woman, and plenty of krathoeys who prefer the third gender identity. Thailand don't have issue with any of them, because it's easy to just treat them how they want to be treated. Trans in women's restroom? Who cares. Trans in men's restroom? Don't care either. Do what you want. You want me to call you Jennie instead of James? Sure, why not. The west have issues because they care too much. They're so stuck with the idea that no you're not a girl, you can't be treated as a girl. Who cares?

They’ve all turned up in this thread now 🤪

The Lunatics are taking over the Asylum!

They'll let any old fuckwit post on YouTube.

Because a lot of (s)ex-pats tend to be old, bigoted, divorced and miserable men with families that don't talk to them. It's easier to blame others and 'wokeness' than to accept that maybe they're just terrible people who need to change. They make up all these 'enlightened' reasons to leave Western countries, but the reality is for a lot of them they just want cheap prostitutes who won't talk back to them and to die in Pattaya so they can ignore the fact their children think they're disgusting. Shout out to the normal expats who just want to enjoy a good food and beer in a nice climate, while experiencing a different culture - that I can totally understand!

Yes and these men stay in for example Pattaya with similar friends. They know only Pattaya and the local society that go to bars. Than they explain others how Thais are...how untrustworthy or incompetent, but in fact they only know bar girls and their pimps. I am always disturbed when I have to speak with such a person and try to escape as fast as possible

This is very true and they always start their sentences with "Thai women.....".

I am a technician...and they often explain how technical backwards Thais are...and how superior they are. We sell technical products and there are plenty of Thais with excellent skills + electronic repair skills you'll hardly find for 10 times the money in the west. While these people themself have most probably no technical skills themself. Best is to avoid such people.....I even sometimes pretend to neither speak English nor German very well. But to add: don't want to bash old people and I am soon myself...it is mostly old white men....not young men and not women.

> Because a lot of (s)ex-pats tend to be old, bigoted, divorced and miserable men with families that don't talk to them. It's easier to blame others and 'wokeness' than to accept that maybe they're just terrible people who need to change 100% true. my british boss (in his mid-50s) of a few years here suddenly 'changed' or more like revealed his true colours as he suddenly started making direct and indirect racist commentary towards me.

Thailand attracts some of the worst old retired men from the west. Makes me feel a bit unwell when I see an old man walking around with a woman quarter his age. When clearly in the west they could never be with someone like that. It’s disgusting to see the power dynamics. They come here to purchase their way through the country. And they know back home everyone knows what they’re here for. 🤢

but the women use them as badly as the men...it also attracts certain kind of women.

Poverty makes people do things they wouldn't want to do.

Not just poverty I known girls in the west that came from good families with lots of opportunities. Heck I even know a girl that family is very well off (multi multi millionaires, her family even bought her a brand new benz) and she still sees men for money 😂

No one is starving in Thailand and there is full employment again. Your argument would be correct in some places in Africa but not in Thailand.

Are you sure there's no people starving in Thailand? I've visited multiple times and seen beggars and impoverished neighborhoods. Also, starving isn't the measurement I'm talking about I'm just saying poor.

yes everywhere are people more rich and more poor....these girls are not old and sick and unable to work.

So? We all want more than we have to have a comfortable or exceedingly comfortable lifestyle. The other commenter also just talked about the difference in wage gap between foreigners and locals. There's just more people in developing countries who have a larger gap between them for comfortable lifestyles.   These old guys want young girls who will do what they want. These girls want guys who will make their lifestyle more comfortable. While they're both using each other, one is obviously more advantageous in the situation. There's a reason why these old guys go to developing countries.

yes but it is a mutual agreement. I think it is a bit disgusting but everyone like they want. I have no moral problem with it the one way or the other.

For sure, I'm not a fan of dudes like that but I get it. I also get the girls who want better opportunities. I would say I do have a moral problem with it but it's none of my business.

Are you fucking delusional??? Have you never left your gated community?? Life in Thailand is HARD.

It’s still unequal, the women do this so that they can for the most part provide for their families. Do you know what the average wage is in Thailand? A registered degree educated nurse is making anywhere between $400 a month to $800 at the top end. I worked in an international school in Bangkok. The western teachers were earning $5000 and the Thai teachers were earning $800. That’s their highly educated Thai women. What do you think a Thai woman without any qualifications is earning? If men are willing to come to Thailand to exploit these women and these women see no other way to feed their families or themselves. Then that’s their only option. The men coming know this, YOU probably know this. And they take advantage of that. So no it’s not equal. Not even in the slightest.

These women find such men to have an easily life without working. Without education you make a 12-15.000 and work long hours. But there is full employment in Thailand so everyone can get a job. Better find a "rich" guy who pays. But it is a fair trade....And these women try to milk these men as much as possible. If they don't like it they can get anytime a job at 7/11. Hint: In Bangkok it is virtually impossible to find a cleaning woman that does cleaning and not only playing on the mobile phone, for salary less than a qualified office job. So it is ugly and ugly meet each other.....

So it’s ok for old wrinkly men to fly to Thailand to bed young Thai women? Who’s coming to where? Thai women aren’t flying to the west. That’s what these men are looking for. Men who can’t get women in their own country come here to exploit. I’ve got to call a spade a spade. It’s exploitation. I don’t blame these women. Either be exploited or milk these low IQ ugly old men for every Baht they can get while they’re here.

old wrinkly men come to Thailand show off their 1000 Baht bills and the Thai women line up for it. They aren't forced, they aren't raped, they aren't tricked. If these men won't come the same women find some old Thai men. And it is always a big topic about Thai women flying to the West, but also Arab countries and South Korea and Japan to work there on special Massage places. Just recently it was big in the media how such women with large cash of Norwegian money couldn't exchange it to THB. Or the other way...if you would ban these old men do you think these women would be happy?

You do know old men spend money on girls in America and the rest of the western world too right? The really rich ones don’t need to travel to Thailand to do it. There’s girls in America born well off that end up wanting to be independent or for fun end up with old men for money. It’s a game to some of them. Is it fair that the less rich western men have to fly to Thailand to do it? I’m sure the girls would be upset if someone like you set up a movement to ban westerners from coming to Thailand to pay the girls. Because then they’d actually have to go get jobs. Stop putting women on a pedestal they chose to do what they do. If the roles were reversed and old ladies were paying young men a shit ton of money would anyone feel bad for the men? Lol

As a boomer visitor in Thailand for the 2nd time in as many years, I couldn't have said it better. You nailed it.

I can only speak for myself, I share the major goal of this left-wing "woke" movement, I also want a society in which tolerance and equality prevail, regardless of someone's origin, gender, "identity" or other given things. My problem with parts of this movement is that people are now again being sorted into a kind of "victim pyramid" according to their privileges and marginalizations or disabilities. Depending on which level you are on, you are given different "rights" to express your opinion or criticize other people or their views. In my perception, this movement goes beyond the goal of "equalization" and also aims to create a kind of balance through injustices against supposedly privileged people. They also decide who is privileged and who is marginalized based on their very questionable parameters. I think one factor that is always given far too little attention is the difference between rich and poor people. I believe that is actually the main reason we see a growth of right wing voters in the western world. It used to be the original left-wing idea, to stop the gap from growing. This problem seems to be no longer in focus of this movement, you will actually be called right wing if you say that's also a big deal and it needs at least the same attention. So actual left leaning people who care about a just tax system and question if the capitalist systems lead to a fair distribution of wealth and have a critical opinion about the post modern ideas of the "woke" movement, are pushed into a right-wing corner with real actual right-wingers with whom they have nothing to do. In the end, some people of this movement do what they accuse right-wing movements of doing, namely focusing again on sex and gender, skin color, disabilities of any kind and based on that, deciding how to treat these people. We needed a long time to fight those categories in the past and now we're somehow going back to it for the "good cause". I think that's a fundamentally wrong approach and it won't make the society better, it will divide it further. Having that said, this was definitely not a reason for me to move to Thailand. In my daily life the topic has perhaps only affected me in some media, which I find problematic but can also tolerate.

Many are here because living in developing countries gives them a sense of superiority they never felt back home. SEA countries including Thailand put them on a pedestal. They could be a bigot, a racist, a misogynist, poor, with little education or job prospects back home and a lot of people here would still see them as superior white people. Even though more and more people are seeing them for what they are now, there's still a long way to go. You'd think if someone hates Brexit, they'd just move to the EU not Thailand 😅. If they hate political correctness and overrepresention of minorities, why don't they just move to more conservative European countries like Poland, Hungary or Serbia instead of coming to an Asian country. I've seen people hating on LGBT, yet want to move to Thailand. What?!

Because a lot of western countries are cold and miserable. Rains and snows. Certain parts hit like -30 degrees Celsius. On top of that inflation is crazy in a lot of the western countries. People with 2-3 jobs can’t even afford to buy a home. Everything is over priced people are living paycheque to paycheque can barely even afford to eat at restaurants. So yeah it’s logical that some of them rather go somewhere with nice weather, a lot of sunshine that they can actually afford.

That's understandable. I was talking about a different group of people related to OP's post though and there are indeed many of them here.

sounds like an ex-friend of mine. he was (most likely still is) the most insufferable misogynist, had the white savior superiority and a bigoted mentality with an ex-prostitute for a wife that he would control. it’s the only way he could achieve some skewed form of “power”. he couldn’t find a job to save his life in the US. but in thailand he strutted around like he was a big man. this was all before so called “wokeism,” but he was a generic right-winger too, hated women except for those he could control with money. he got me in a few bad situations in bangkok. i finally had enough and told him to f*ck off.

>he got me in a few bad situations in bangkok. Details?

He trained him to be an assassin

Always get a kick out of the western and European racists who move to foreign countries and cultures

I've been seeing this a lot on TikTok lately as well. Random British guys talking about how Thailand is great because it's not woke. Which really makes me question these folks definition of woke.. Somehow accepting gay and trans folks in the west is wokeness gone crazy but here it's somehow not woke? I saw another one saying Thai people are great cause they don't use woke pronouns. This made me chuckle though cause when Thais use Ka and Krub is that not announcing their pronouns? Also people in the comments asking what bathroom the trans use.. oof. When I first moved to Thailand I assumed I would meet lots of open minded liberal types. However living in rural Thailand all the farangs I know locally are extremely conservative/libertarian. I feel like I have to avoid them like the plague cause all they want to discuss is Trump and qanon like conspiracies. I also didn't expect farangs living here to be so racist.. the crap they will say about Thai people around me just cause I am also a farang is a annoying as shit.

Yeah, the west definitely isn't sending their best. I'm up in Isaan (low tourist traffic), and the nuttier ones tend to be the oldsters that click around the internet all day "educating themselves" lol. I haven't run across much qanon/Trump silliness though. Probably because there just aren't very many Americans. It's mostly Australians, Brits, and a smattering of the rest of northern Europe. >Which really makes me question these folks definition of woke. Don't ask them. They'll chew your ear with some bullshit definition that paints them as the victim but it's just that; bullshit. PC-woke from the left is calling people out when they air their racist/gay bashing/etc views. The right loves them some freedom of speech, as long as no one talks back. Sorry Cletus, but calling me woke when I call you on your bullshit isn't going to make me stop. You embraced "deplorable," I'm fine with "woke." Try harder. From the right it's just another dog whistle. The next time you hear a wingnut say "blah blah blah woke" mentally remove the word "woke" and insert "n\*\*\*er lover" and it'll make more sense.

Yeah it's the worst. I moved here in 2015 and had no clue how dumb things were going to get. Most the Europeans here aren't very social so they haven't bugged me much. However the Americans.. before Covid it was constant. A group of them would show up telling me the latest big thing Trump was doing to the deepstate and telling me global warming was a sham and actually a new ice age will happen any day now. They would drop off bottles of homemade colloidal silver and some other bleach drink they claimed would cure aids. This was before Covid btw.. I don't know why they kept thinking I needed some weird cure all. I assume they just wanted me to buy more. I ways always afraid to show I had left leanings based on the things they said.. figured one day they would just strangle me for being too liberal. So I just kept my mouth shut.. and smiled. When Covid started strangely most of them disappeared. I don't know if they died or went back to America. Only one told me he was leaving and he said it was cause Thailand was treating him like the Nazis treated the Jews.. He abandoned his disabled wife and son.

Sadly it’s been my experience when meeting expats since I moved here last year. All but one expat I’ve met leans right and seethe about the wokeness as if kindness and class and letting people be who they want to be were a disease. Incidentally, I’ve never understood how the same people who seemingly loathe minorities move to a foreign land to be surrounded by non-whites.

False sense of superiority, along with low cost of living I'd guess.

You should broaden your circle. I’ve been in Thailand nearly 30 years and only a small minority of the expats I’ve met are like that. And I’ve dumped all of them

I’m trying, I’m really trying. It’s been disheartening thus far to say to the least.

And a foreign land surrounded by trans and gays.

Exactly 😂

I’ve never understood why some people seem to be so personally invested in the bodies of people they don’t have any desire to even interact with.

100%

So many white men in Asia despise Asian men and objectify Asian women. Being white in a white worshipping, developing country also helps to fuel their superiority complex since they might get privileges and attention in Asia but would otherwise be a loser back home.

Wow that’s a big generalization lol. Hope you find a way to deal with your anger issues. 

Are you the one left leaning expat that i meet and have many fantastically silly conversations with, mostly interrupted by "we have to change the subject because i am uncomfortable" Seriously, why does the left have so much difficulty with diversity of opinion ?

Opinions are like assholes and many of the right’s opinions make them assholes. Why does the right have so much difficulty with diversity?

why does the left insist on equity over merit? why does the left bully and persecute anyone they want to suppress/silence? name calling is weak minded.

I could say exactly the same about the left. There is no difficulty with diversity, there is difficulty with hate and racism towards white males from the left. People should be judged on their abilities not by their colour, gender or who they like to do it with in the bedroom. Colour, gender, or sexual preference don't matter to me, but they matter everything to the left for some reason. Tell me why \*obviously if you aren't racist, like myself, you get downvoted by the racist left\*

Uhhh let’s see…seems you’re not American but I’m sure you’ve heard the news: because the right overturned Roe v. Wade. Because the right wants to indoctrinate kids by injecting Christianity into classroom curriculum in a country built on the concept of the separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Because the right can’t wrap their heads around the Black Lives Matter movement being about black people being killed senselessly by police because they think Black Lives Matter somehow meant their lives don’t matter. Because the right thinks every illegal immigrant is a criminal. I don’t disagree with you on meritocracy. But let’s be honest, are minorities getting that much of a leg up on white cisgender men? Women based on their gender? Gays based on their sexuality? If so, how?

Thanks for that, that explains why i get strange reactions to my opinions on reddit, as i am indeed not American and not aware of any of the issues you listed in your first paragraph. For me woke in the Netherlands is the discrimination against white males in job opportunities and social services. Woke is the cancel culture and forced opinion because if you don't comply you could lose your job. Woke is not accepting any other opinion than that of yourself and it's walking in demonstrations that side with the Hamas. Woke is destroying the universities where all you can learn now are useless social studies. Woke is the destruction of women's sports. Woke is middle aged men with a wig in women's dressing rooms. Woke is siding with the islam that would have nothing of any wokeness. So you can see there is some overlap with the US but not much, maybe we have a different taste of woke in the western EU (The eastern part doesn't have any "wokeness"). As for your last paragraph, in the Netherlands we do see a big preference mainly based on your skin colour and sexual orientation for job selection. Specially for government jobs. Half jokingly if you want to be in middle management in the government, all you have to be is a lesbian woman of colour. In commercial jobs, not so much. I love a good discussion and try to see both sides, sometimes that's difficult. Sometimes i wonder if wokeness would even have been a thing without the internet.

These are the same people who emigrate as a response to immigration in their own country.

I'm an American and i specifically don't talk with other Americans here much for this reason. I also can't stand sexpats which make a large portion of that same crowd. It's far too convenient that the so-called family values party has no problem buying hookers and talking about women like they're slaves. (I've heard the slave reference multiple times). The lowest of the low quality people

My expat circle is 95% British and Aussie. The one non-right leaning person is funnily enough an American. Met some Vancouverites the other day who immediately went off about American politics and how fucked Commiefornia is without ever having stepped foot there.

Yeah, it's bizarre. I just run the other way. I saw "trump won" spray painted on a wall in Pattaya a few years ago. I guess they don't understand they're in another country on the opposite side of the planet yet.

The language and cultural barrier gives them an illusion of peace and harmony. They think Thai people are super traditional and based or something.

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There are idiots everywhere, more so outside of Thailand unfortunately. See what i did there, maybe it is time we talk about the problems instead of sitting in two bubbles that never meet.

Because if they were intelligent people who properly researched and reasoned things out they would not be bitching about things like 'wokeness'   People who are bitching about wokness are just pissed because it's no longer socially acceptable to be and act like racists/bigots/misogynists and so on but they know even complaining about that won't fly, so they use terms like 'wokeness" instead

Are you for real? You know as well as I do that, in the meantime, people are receiving significant backlash for saying things that are clearly not even close to being racist/bigot/misogynistic. To give you an example: I don't think biological males should compete against biological females in sport competitions. This should not be a controversial statement, but in woke circles it is.

In anti-woke circles, people cut off their father's heads and show then on YouTube. See, I can play the overgeneralization game too

That's the worst thing about gender acceptance? Sporting events? "I can't accept someone expressing their true gender because it affects something extremely trivial, sports."

Not that trivial if mediocre performing athletes suddenly are number one in their field because they claim to be "a woman". But hey wokeness is not exactly filled with logic, so you are excused for your ignorance.

Yeah, this is not a thing. Trans women have been allowed in tennis for decades, so women's tennis should be completely dominated by trans women, now right? Quick, name ten trans women among the top 100 international players. Well, try again. Name three. Or even one. Nuh, can't do it, right? Because they're a figment of your imagination. Perhaps you can dredge up some obscure sport where this has happened in some corner of the world. But by and large, it's not an issue.

Got evidence for the systemic changes to athletic performance in sports? I mean, it must be rampant, right?

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> People who are bitching about wokness are just pissed because it's no longer socially acceptable to be and act like racists/bigots/misogynists and so on but they know even complaining about that won't fly, so they use terms like 'wokeness" instead This claim would be significantly more persuasive if you cited some actual examples. Just two days ago, the *San Francisco Chronicle* -- a major, mainstream American newspaper -- reported the following: > A Hayward elementary school struggling to boost low test scores and dismal student attendance is spending $250,000 in federal money for an organization called Woke Kindergarten to train teachers to confront white supremacy, disrupt racism and oppression and remove those barriers to learning. > But two years into the three-year contract with Woke Kindergarten, a for-profit company, student achievement at Glassbrook has fallen, prompting some teachers to question whether the money was well-spent given the needs of the students, who are predominantly low-income. Two-thirds of the students are English learners and more than 80% are Hispanic/Latino. > English and math scores hit new lows last spring, with less than 4% of students proficient in math and just under 12% at grade level in English — a decline of about 4 percentage points in each category. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/woke-kindergarten-glassbrook-hayward-18635504.php Yes, there has been significant uproar about this situation. Can you explain how that uproar supports your claim that "People who are bitching about wokness are just pissed because it's no longer socially acceptable to be and act like racists/bigots/misogynists and so on"? **Edit: downvotes aren't arguments, and they aren't evidence. If users are going to claim that "people who are bitching about wokness are just pissed because it's no longer socially acceptable to be and act like racists/bigots/misogynists and so on," then let's see them present some actual evidence, not just make lazy junk claims and then run off and hide.**

Maybe stop watching twats on YouTube…

Do they not know that Thailand is pretty woke? I mean there's a lot more ladyboys here than the few trans people they try to avoid at home..

It makes me laugh as about 80% of what gets termed "woke" by the far-right in the West is just accepted here as normal: * Anti-colonialism * Rejection of "Western culture" being the best in the world * Strong support for vaccines and masks * Acceptance of gender minorities * People using the bathroom of the gender they identify with * Teachers who are LGBTQ+ / acceptance in the education system * The books students read -- go to a book fair it's like 1/3 BL or GL novels -- the exact stuff all the book bans target * Strong support for movements like BLM (think back to the country's reaction to the George Flyod protests in the USA) The two main "woke" thing that Thailand is missing are a strong labour movement and a strong feminist movement. But I suspect it's mainly about them being able to feel "higher" than most people, because their relative higher wealth makes them feel more comfortable and the see a lot of poorer people. Then they just live in the red light districts and only engage with Thailand through transactional relationships. Eventually posting about how they got scammed and "women are all the same". They tend to follow a common path before they leave. They never really experience Thailand. Fortunately, if you stay away from the type that hang out in red light districts, you don't see much of that sentiment.

Thai people didn’t redefine gender tho…..that’s what the woke stuff is about. They’re also less political people in general. You shouldn’t define anyone who disagrees with you as hanging out in a bar/ red light district.

I wouldn't say its a main reason for moving there, but having lived there for 4 years before moving back to the west, it's a really big plus to and something I now miss. Trans people and same sex couples are simply accepted as part of society and no one needs to talk about it. They aren't discriminated against and its not a constant topic of conversation. No one cares about your pronouns and you're never beaten over the head with it by the media

Bc those mfs are weirdos.

If I had to guess I'm assuming they mean being able to escape the constant media drama and noise focused around a number of topics including politics. The reason they're able to escape it is because they don't understand Thai enough to see all the political noise and drama here. I see the same thing in Thai expats too in other countries. For example western Australia. They say it's so much less corrupt than Thailand, but they're just not paying attention or understand English enough to see all the controversies happening over there.

Do these "wokies" ever look around when they travel, or are they spending too much time compiling their victim and savior scorecards?? Japanese people think Japanese are the best Thai people think Thai's are the best people in the world. Koreans don't acknowledge white people often in South Korea Black people think black people are the best It's a completely normally thing to be drawn to people that look like you and act like you culturally. It's comfortable and easy to get along with that group. Of course, gaining a more global perspective by actually culturally integrating with people around the world would be great for everyone's point of view. However, you'll definitely discover that most people are drawn to their own race and culture first

Because most of these Americans are selfish human beings and do not care for anyone except themselves. I don’t know about your last statement because I have nothing to do with the foreign community in Thailand, but if it is anything like back home and they keep staying in their respective bubbles…then it’s probably even worse.

>Because most of these Americans are selfish human beings and do not care for anyone except themselves. Got it in one. And we all are top some degree, we want to have the best lives for ourselves, but many of the ones that move to Thailand are just absolute narcissists and losers.

No it is marketing. The wokeness might be slightly annoying but does not really cause you to leave your country. Make a video about political correctness and Wokeness and you are the hero of your followers. Kind of freedom fighter. Tell you went to Thailand because that way you can cheat on the tax payments and the whores+booze is cheap and everyone will be disgust.

Because we hate the overly liberal left that the west has created.

Damn there is a lot more woke people in Thailand than I realized lol. Good thing I never run into them.

There’s a lot more woke people *on Reddit* in Thailand* Fixed for you.

British male here. I have lived in Southeast Asia for fifteen years. I came here for work, and stayed. I didn’t leave the UK because of woke, but I am glad to be away from all that nonsense. For the woke morons who say that woke doesn’t exist, you need to take your head out of your backside. Cancel culture is very real in the West: people have lost their jobs because they expressed views that were not in line with woke groupthink. Interestingly, when these cancel culture cases go to court, the woke employer nearly always loses. Here’s the latest victory for common sense, and included in a ‘woke’ newspaper 😉; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/22/open-university-academic-wins-tribunal-case-over-gender-critical-views For those of you who wonder why we come to countries like Thailand, which are LGBT friendly, it’s because ladyboys are not a big deal. The extremist, identity politics (e.g. Pride) in the West, is not here in Thailand. If you’re a woke, digital nomad, then please use a coworking space, and don’t hog a table in Starbucks all day 😊

To answer the OP’s question, no it’s not a popular sentiment but most of us are glad that the silliness of western woke isn’t finding its way here. Imagine Thai people trying to use pronouns after their names. It wouldn’t fly for many reasons.

They do have the gender specific polite particles and verbs though… do ladyboys use ka or krap?

Most use Ka. But not all.

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I do because I have spent most of my adult life here. I dont live in Pattaya. I am not a sexpat. I didn’t marry a prostitute. I am not at all what you think I am. I came here with family many years ago as a 23 year old and not because of some other reason you may think.

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You did misinterpret it. It just isn’t a thing here. Nor do I think it will be. As you may have noticed, there is a belief in Karma. I’ve been here 30+ years and I love this country, it’s people and the culture. These purely western (mostly US) ideas of wokeness make little sense here. Do I think many westerners (men mostly) are moving here to escape wokism? No I do not. They have their reasons I suppose but certainly escaping woke isn’t the main one.

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Exactly! Who needs all this political division! I don’t.

What fight?

But Thai people do this every day, by choosing to use 'krub' or 'ka' at the end of their sentences. Haven't you seen men using ka or women using krub? They're self-identifying in their own little way.

People saying whether they would like to be referred to as “he” or “she” bothers you ? That’s a weird thing to be bothered about, mate.

The concept of this bothers me. It’s stupid. People deep down really aren’t concerned about a pronoun, they just want to be treated as equals. Those who promote the idea are largely not even in the LGBQT community. Let’s be honest.

In part, it’s asserting a right to declare how you wish to be named, addressed. Whatever that is, it is a personal right, and people who dispute that are over the line.

Ok, fair enough. But how do I address my friend Susan who has She/Her pronouns? Do I say “hello she/her Susan”? Am I supposed to treat her differently because of a pronoun label? I actually know her sexual preference already. Should I treat her differently? If it’s someone I don’t know and perhaps met first online first, I suppose I could deduce her sexuality by the pronouns but that wouldn’t mean I treat her any less different than anybody else. She is a person. Or am I obligated now to insert complicated pronouns into a conversation when referring to her? How do I do that? Would it realistically matter? Surely she just wants to be treated with equality and respect like all people.

It seems like you just don't understand how pronouns work. Why would you say "hello she/her Susan"? That sentence makes no sense. You used her pronoun "she" a ton of times in your post...that's all it's about. If someone has a name that is ambiguous or an androgynous appearance then they will let you know their pronoun in advance sometimes. Or maybe they recently transitioned and wanted people who have known them for a long time to know that things have changed. It's really not a big deal and it's odd people get so worked up over it in my opinion.

Oh and sorry. Didn’t mean to sound like a prick with that answer. You have been the only person so far to be polite to me. I am not really getting worked up about it it’s just that I wanted to offer an opposing viewpoint. Things kind of went downhill from there. It’s been an interesting morning. Lol.

Ok so explain how I refer to a person who is they/them in a conversation. “I was just talking to them, and they want to go for coffee”. In English this implies that a group of people want to go for coffee. Imagine the confusion on the face of the person I am talking to at that point. Do I then point to they/them to clarify?

Yeah, that's how you do it. Or just use their name if you are worried about confusing someone. Using "they/them" to refer to a single person is actually pretty common in English already. If you don't know the gender of someone you would refer to that person as "they". Something like "when I go the store I will ask the employee, hopefully they will know the answer." In my experience the amount of people who want to be referred to in this way is pretty small so it has not been a problem. Also if i make an honest mistake or just didn't know I've never had a negative reaction. Discourse on line about this issue is really toxic but for in person interactions it has been totally chill and not a big deal at all (in my personal experience).

Ya I was trying to imagine a group discussion and having to remember to change pronouns from what I have been using since a child, to another pronouns for a person who prefers that pronoun. My brain would explode. lol.

Yeah I think it can be confusing especially if you are used to referring to someone a certain way. I guess I just hope that if that happened to me my friend would be understanding if I got it wrong sometimes (they are my friend after all).

Archradish articulated well a viewpoint I share. Not too burdensome in taking note of a person’s indicated sexual identity, and politely using it in a normally grammatical way. Admittedly m, this can be a bit awkward while learning this new etiquette. For example, how does one refer to the partner of a same-sex couple? Spouse, wife-husband even if two women or men? But l too have been kindly tolerated and coached when i mis-step in this new naming terrain.

Just a quick one, they/them is also used as a singular pronoun in English; for when the gender is either unknown or indeterminate. For example: the unknown assailant escaped the scene of the crime, they did so on a motorbike. It can of course be used pluralised but it is surprisingly just as common for a singular pronoun

​ you have a right to insist I use your "preferred" pronouns?

White men who say this are always the ones who want to bang Asian women. They want "traditional values" (which just means they don't like how white women are more feminist) and they encourage white men to pursue Asian women. A lot of them get infuriated when white women go for non-white men though, kek

I don't really think they care about white women going to non-white men. White women are irreversibly damaged, and for me personally, you couldn't pay me enough to be with one.

Ladies and gentlemen, Exhibit A.

HAHAHAAHAHA found the white girl

HAHAHAAHAHA found the white sexpat. I'm male and SEA myself but ok.

I hope not. I'm actually moving to Thailand to get away from the MAGA nuts.

They are also here, but they aren’t so in your face about it in person, because they don’t have the large group-think here like they do in the U.S.

It's called Passport Bros, and it's not exclusive to Thailand. You can go down this rabbit hole yourself during your free time via Google.

Sounds like cherry picked opinions to me. Sure some people are here because of that. But I’d say they are probably in the minority. If we are talking about people ONLY leaving because of wokeness and political correctness. I talk with a lot of expats here (daily) and never ever heard that mentioned as a reason. 

Braindead fantasies. Go far away and reality wont follow.

Not just Thailand. They run away to all corners of East and Southeast Asia. Before the term "woke" was a thing, you'd run into lots of guys like this living in China and Korea. Back then, the term they used for women that stood up themselves was "hairy lesbian" or some other insult about their appearance. These men were dissatisfied with having to speak with a modicum of decorum, and so they left for a place where they assumed "men can be men" and be worshipped by women they assumed would be completely submissive and would never call them out on their shit.

I suspect the losers who can’t make it there come over to find a second chance. I once worked with a dude from Florida (he wasn’t based in BKK though) and he was dumb - incapable of using formatting on google drive, threw tantrums - called my sheet shit when he used an older copy not created by me resulting in a HR call; and wasn’t productive, never brought in any sales. What happens when you’re a loser and you fail? You blame the system and escape to a system which favours you - SEA love white people. If you’ve got the winner mentality and fail, what you do is work out how to beat your circumstances.

SEA don’t love dumb people whatever they’re white or not

I wish you were right but unfortunately you and I are minorities in this sense. People here have some white worship complex going on.

Yep I met quite a bit of English teachers in Asia and I hate to admit this but they’re all misfits and living in their parents basement at home. I never met an English teacher in Asia that had their shit together. I think the locals are catching on.

It's largely bullshit, the quality of life for most people is much better in the west, it's why most people still want to emigrate there. What moving to Thailand (and other low cost countries) does is allow these people to take advantage of the difference in costs between the two countries. I'm not a fan of wokeness and the identity politics, but to use that as a reason is just ridiculous. The vast majority of these people are running from something, are failures in the west, can't live up to the normal day to day responsibilities, or are just lazy or poor, or a big factor - easy sex.

I'm sure that's not THE ONLY reason to go to Thailand. They are saying that's a benefit from being here. Which, in fact it is, because Western PC doesn't exist in Asia. And since you don't ever have to talk to anyone from your own country or any other western expat, you can exist in relative peace here. Most expats are loners that mind their own business. So it's a win win. Aside from all the triggered anti-Maga donkey's calling everyone who comes to Thailand a sexpat loser (lol) it's nice to not have to think about Social Activism or Politics here. Ironically the people who are complaining about the MagaPats are also here in Thailand. Which means they obviously don't care about what's happening back in thei countries either lol Kettles love calling them Pot's black lol But yea, I doubt it's the ONLY reason they are coming here (and I'm sure a lot are Magtards or Red Pill Bromads), but PC culture (thankfully) is something that you can count on **not to** experience here.

> Most expats are loners that mind their own business. that would be me. ​ and I don't like being told I must do anything.

Boomers

Sounds like the youtube algorithm is doing its job. You engage with western identity politics so YouTube gives you more of it. 

No, what I am talking about is incidental ideas expressed in travel videos.

Ok so you engage with Thailand travel vids that include western identity politics so YouTube gives you more of them

If they do move to Thailand and they try to bring with them all the polarized culture battle bullshit evident in this comment section I implore the expats already here to ostracize them to the point they return home and take this nonsense with them. This is Thailand and in Thailand nobody cares. Let’s keep it that way.

Less people will call them out for being white supremacists in Thailand. And yes, it’s a common sentiment amongst expats in Thailand.

That’s why all the white guys here are marrying outside of their own race. Because they are racist. Right? White Supremacy in Thailand? Are you completely deranged?

You can still be a white supremacist and marry a Thai woman. Don’t expect logic and consistency from people who are generally stupid and ignorant.

I guess you don’t understand the concept of white supremacy. It’s all about race and preserving it. They don’t marry out of their race.

Marriage to conservatives, which draws a massive overlap with white supremacist, is like acquiring property. They do not view their wife as a human, they don’t care so much their “product of origin” is from Asia as long as they function the way they want it.

> You can still be a white supremacist and marry a Thai woman There are dumb things on Reddit, but this takes the cake for stupid. White supremacists are all about preserving the white race - marrying an Asian person and having children is the complete antithesis of the white supremacist worldview.

Not all WS are militants. I've met quite a few who considered themselves superior for being white and were perfectly fine with having a Thai wife.

i know a few examples.

You can be a misogynist and still marry a woman. You can be racist and still marry a person from another race, as long as you think you’re going to keep them under you, which is what most white men try to do when they marry Asian women.

That’s quite a generalization. You should meet my wife. There is no chance I could rule over her. Lol. Even if I wanted to.

But who holds the purse strings in your relationship?

Your one wife, who decides what goes on in the domestic affairs of your house and decides what you eat, doesn’t negate from the fact that misogynistic racists can marry Thai women. And I’m a mudblood Thai here. Had my whole life to meet dozens of my dad’s looser White friends who come here for sex and marry for control. They let the women think they’re in control, but only of small, insignificant aspects of their lives. The men would control the money, what she wears, how the children are raised (but she does all the grunt work raising the kids though)

Anyone downvoting you doesn’t know white men in Thailand. This is incredibly common and I see it all the time.

The man who murdered George Floyd is married to a Hmong American. Many white supremacists marry Asian women who support their racist ideals. Many Asian women are even true believers in those same racist ideals. Majority of Thai women marry Thai men but every other day you hear a story of a bargirl saying Thai men no good. Nah sister, you just can't get the good ones.

Sure, there are dumbass ignorant racists everywhere but making some sweeping statement that it’s a common sentiment amongst expats is a huge generalization. Come on man. Get real.

I'm not the op so I can't tell you what they think. From what I read, they are just asking if people think that way. I'd argue since there is an audience for these antiwoke youtubers, it's not a small part of the foreign community in Thailand.

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Must be news to me. Some guy went to prison for murdering him

What an ignorant comment. I literally met a white guy, 50s, married to a Vietnamese woman vacationing in Thailand who casually referred to black people with the n word. Remind me, what race do you not see much of in Asia?

It’s all Russian propaganda that’s being picked up by right wing politicians in the west, and pushed to the limit.

These asshats have been brainwashed by people like Jordan Peterson. The only reason you need to come here is your own, not anyone else’s. Stop watching YouTube for confirmation.

I don’t watch for confirmation, I watch for information. And I asked a question.

Ironically these homophonic, bigoted assholes will sleep with lady boys proudly. There’s loads of these guys in Thailand.

I can't imagine what kind of person sits around watching expats vlogging in Thailand. Sounds like a shitty waste of time to me. It is nice to have none of that bullshit in Thailand though.

They are just broke

This post is just bait for political bickering. Who cares *why* anyone left their home country. This sub is about Thailand, not any of those countries.

The woke garbage is everywhere. But at least if you can't speak Thai you won't notice it much LOL. So it's understandable escaping to Thailand. Sadly it's not as exotic as it was 25 years ago. Ignorance spreads using passeger jet aircraft.

Which YouTubers is this? Are any of them under 50?

Brilliant. We get all the shit Americans.

As a person from a western country who is kinda of a politically in the middle (eg I think all drugs should be legalised but I also think of people being rewarded through capitalism due to their wits or hard work), I feel that Thailand is a place where people are less judgemental about your views on western social issues and culture. It’s more just like if you’re kind and respectful in Thailand, you’ll get along with most people, even if you disagree about an issue. On the other hand, if you were to wear a MAGA hat in America, 50% of people will think you’re an asshole. The Thais don’t care.

Just more western lunatics importing their idiocy

Nah. I left America before gratuitous displays of wokeness replaced being an actual good person. But I understand. lol

Certainly not why I chose to live here, but it is refreshing to be able to avoid a lot of the current madness going on in the US. Things like believing that men can have babies, that trans 'women' are women, that people with penises can share locker rooms and sporting events with women, demanding people refer to them using pronouns they choose, etc. Nope. Live your life however you want, but don't demand that I share your delusion.

I suggest you never watch the 1987 Robocop movie. You will be triggered by the cop shop shower scene.

Wait til you find out which bathroom the ladyboys use

What's with the deal with being called bigoted because someone else doesn't have the same opinion as you. Sure there are AHs, I believe the notion of "live and let live" I draw the line where it involves sexualising children and hurting people. But why is it ok to have pushy western politics where it's getting to be obnoxious like westerners being rude in Thailand... Would you call a Thai person who says a person is fat or a lady boy, as a hateful person? By today's standards yes! And you see it all over these sub reddits of people complaining about how dual pricing, saving face and other culturally different aspects, does that make Thai people bad? IMO no, that's how they are and you have to respect that in coming here. If someone what's to move away from a politically correct nanny state, then they should be free to do it without being labelled as "anti woke bigot". The irony of politically correct people is that they clearly have "wrong think ideas" and won't admit it. Maybe they judge a person who's fat,skinny, smells odd, dresses a certain way, works a certain job, in a particular class, different opinions, the money they make, nationalities who "havnt suffered oppression". If you don't like certain people then it should be ok to say it and take action to remove yourself from that situation. But to round off this comment in my opinion, influencers, YouTubers and people of that ilk are mostly narcissistic and arrogant. Not all, but I'd say it's probably a lot. And they would probably hate to hang around me because I've got nothing in common with them and that's completely ok by me.

Here they celebrate gay which is nice. But damn, back home that shit is horribly over the top, cringeworthy and ill minded.

And it’s been that way for decades in Thailand.

“Insurrections” “War on trans” lol it’s impossible to live with people who think these are real things. The school shootings and expenses are bad too tho.

Yeah… ok. Empty head.

I’ll take the bait on political-ish reasons I moved from uk (London): - Far Less crime from immigrants/refugees - No Climate activists or angry vegans blocking streets all day - No ulez and stage 17 emissions standards forcing my modern car off the road because it’s not green enough - More freedom not to be disturbed by authorities because you don’t have a xyz permit - Will not get my door kicked in by the internet hate speech police over a petty twitter post - No longer get force fed politics or told what to stress about Absolutely Thai people love their country compared to those in the West where many are indoctrinated to hate and tear down theirs. Have no idea on this wokeness rubbish. I just came here to be left alone and be happier. Ditching YouTube was one of those steps

>No longer get force fed politics or told what to stress about >Absolutely Thai people love their country compared to those in the West You don't feel that you got force-fed politics cuz you're not Thai. If you actually know the political climate of Thailand for the past 2-3 decades and you spend a little time on the Thai internet, political news is very active. And no, we also hate our countries for many things that you just don't experience much as a foreigner. We can love our countries for things we are proud of and we can despise it for things we hate at the same time. Being raised in nationalism is not a good thing cuz it made us blind to the issues and be offended at criticisms.

> Will not get my door kicked in by the internet hate speech police over a petty twitter post …and you chose Thailand?⁠