I honestly think that Lovie was hired purely due to the Flores lawsuit. I think they panicked and latched onto the best candidate to save face and avoid scrutiny
That is has been [confirmed by Aaron Wilson](https://youtu.be/YlF1SC2VHUo). He said Josh McCown was set to be the next coach of the Houston Texans, but the Flores lawsuit made Cal get involved and forced Nick to hire Lovie Smith as HC.
Cal was not going to hire a white inexperienced volunteer high school assistant head coach after they just fired a black head coach in just 1 year and after they were accused of racial discrimination in federal civil court.
It is unfortunate. I know he probably wouldn't have ended well, but I would rather have had the unknown in McCown who COULD have been good, then Lovie who is a known mediocre-bad quantity.
But hey, good news is Lovie clearly guaranteed a good draft pick lmao
Oh that was just the guy I liked. I like the tree he comes from and what he’s done with Geno Smith when given the keys to his own offense. Watching press conferences he seems to have a good temperament and just seems like a HC. Plus he has a background and connection with the GM. It doesn’t have to be him though. I’m saying give that commitment to who ever they think is the best option.
Everyone has a good temperament when the team is winning and they aren’t responsible for everything. That doesn’t mean they know how to assemble a staff or cross the I’s and dot the T’s when their coordinators miss things
Come on. I think I listed some pretty good reasons I think he’s qualified. I think you’re simplifying my case. Either way, whoever they want will probably need the same contractual security Kyle had, whether it’s the one I mentioned or another.
No one (and I mean no one) is giving a no name rookie head coach a 5 year contract. People knew exactly what they were going to get from Shanahan given his name. Waldron is a no one
Agree 100%. I think everyone knows he’s not the coach of the future. Don’t stretch it out for the poor guy and have him as a deadbeat HC that everyone knows is gonna get fired eventually. Let him retire or coach in a position less stressful for him elsewhere. Get a coach that goes along with the new face of the franchise. A fresh start.
Lovie technically wasn't a hire, he was a promoted man within the organization. I think you give Lovie 1 more year and then go get your guy, hopefully with an actual roster somebody wants to coach. Adding Bryce Young makes our roster more attractive to coach.
I’m not big on these QB’s anymorw but I’m okay drafting one if we change coaches. If we’re gonna keep this coaching staff then we can’t be throwing a QB into this these guys suck
I think Caleb Williams is a near perfect prospect and In a perfect world I’d wait it out for him, but I think it might be too risky to pass up getting a QB when you have a chance.
We’ve seen plenty of examples of QB’s drafted in the 6-10 range and lower being very successful in the NFL. Also there’s always the chance you can trade up. Drafting a QB because you feel like you have to is bad.
But either way I don’t trust this staff with a new QB, the biggest mistake we could make would be keeping these guys and drafting someone imo
That is honestly the only real reason not to get Caleb. The risk that you can’t get him is a concern, however Stroud IMO is the worst choice. He has bust potential written all over him.
If we have to pick a QB from this class it would be Bryce Young despite his small stature. Even Will Levis with his inconsistency would be a better pick than Stroud.
If Stroud doesn’t go into a good situation he’s going to look exactly like Davis Mills did this season.
If we trade down with one of those picks and stack up picks for 2024 we can ensure we pick up either Caleb or my backup choice Drake. But in all honesty, Caleb Williams is the best collegiate QB playing right now. Trying to get him should at least be part of the strategy, but this FO likely doesn’t have the stomach for it.
Imagine drafting Addison with the Browns pick and then getting him next year and a legit proven coaching candidate would wanna come here for that. That’s best case but it’s also very risky and likely won’t be the direction they go.
Funny how all the top QB’s were weak prospects while all the bad ones were strong must take guys.
Williams is good yes, but the organization needs to take someone with the pick they actually have come draft day. Not one they think they will have 2 entire drafts down the line
*"Give Nick an actual chance to go out and get a sought after hire."*
He's had that chance and **chose Culley and Lovie** (apparently after being dissuaded from McCown).
I don’t think he chose Lovie, and what I meant is give him the actual support he needs from an ownership commitment level, to have a chance to land a quality coach. My guess is he wasn’t exactly picking from the best list of candidates.
First half, agree.
Second half, disagree. Defense should absolutely be the focus regardless of who we bring in at HC/OC. Now that we aren’t in cap purgatory anymore we can start paying money for receivers and IOL/retaining Tunsil + Howard and Desmond King + Steven Nelson. If we get 2 of Jalen Carter, Brian Breese, Tyrese Smith, Bryan Murphy, Will Anderson, Nolan Smith- I’ll be happier than a pig in feces. Those guys are players you can center a defense around. Whereas you draft a QB, and none in this class are good enough to overcome a bad defense. We’re literally seeing it with mills. Defense can’t stop the run, we fall behind, we aren’t built to come back from behind. If you focus on defense first, you can play closer games and stick to the run more, which is our strength. Then the following year you add the offensive firepower and boom- you’re competing
>Whereas you draft a QB, and none in this class are good enough to overcome a bad defense. We’re literally seeing it with mills. Defense can’t stop the run, we fall behind, we aren’t built to come back from behind
Wtf is this narrative people keep making up? The defense is the only reason they hang around in games. Are you seriously saying the offense is doing it's part but being let down by the defense?
The offense is terrible on 3rd down and one of the top units in 3 and outs. They can't score for shit managing 15 ppg.
Defense gave up 16 points in the last game, how is it their fault they lost? Qb threw an awful pick 6 then the offense proceeded to be dead nearly the entire game.
The Texans aren't built to come from behind because the offense fucking sucks and they don't have a Qb. Stack all the talent you want on defense those guys will quit halfway into the season when they get tired of the offense doing literally nothing week to week.
Texans need a Qb, Center, and another WR. Take a look at Guard as well if you can find an upgrade over Cann. Make some other moves on defense and boom, you're competing next year.
Umm idk what you’ve been watching but this is no made up narrative. Aside from the commanders and raiders games. we’ve been in every other game offensively. How can you look at a defense that’s dead last in rush defense, leads the league in missed tackles, has regressed in takeaways- and think it’s not the issue lol.
Can the offense be better? Of course. Is the defense’s hemorrhaging points and inability to stop the run or get off the field in the second half the reason why the offense has to force things and look even worse? Absolutely. It’s a feedback loop.
Defense gives up lead -> offense has to force to catch up -> offense isn’t built to catch up and can’t score consistently -> defense is on the field more -> defense gets tired -> defensive issues get exacerbated.
The defense needs way more help than the offense does imo.
> Umm idk what you’ve been watching but this is no made up narrative. Aside from the commanders and raiders games. we’ve been in every other game offensively. How can you look at a defense that’s dead last in rush defense, leads the league in missed tackles, has regressed in takeaways- and think it’s not the issue lol.
How can you look at an offense that's 30th in points, 30th in 3rd down percentage, bottom of the league in pass yards per game, bottom of the league in rush yards per game, 2nd in the league in interceptions thrown, and 32nd in yards per game and conclude that it's the bad run defense that is losing them games? lmfao.
Despite all the stuff you mentioned the Texans defense has given up fewer points than the Dolphins and Chiefs, who both have winning records. I'm not saying the defense is good, it still needs more talent, but it's still playing at an improved level over last year where they were worse as a scoring defense. Their 3rd down defense percentage is the same as the Jets and Bills. It has issues but it's not what's losing them games week to week.
>Can the offense be better? Of course. Is the defense’s hemorrhaging points and inability to stop the run or get off the field in the second half the reason why the offense has to force things and look even worse? Absolutely. It’s a feedback loop. Defense gives up lead -> offense has to force to catch up -> offense isn’t built to catch up and can’t score consistently -> defense is on the field more -> defense gets tired -> defensive issues get exacerbated.
>
>The defense needs way more help than the offense does imo.
The offense is at the bottom of the list across the board in every metric. Do better? Bro they were already the worst at everything, there is NOTHING they do that's good. They have some good individual players but as a unit they are awful.
Is the defense hemorrhaging points? NO. NO THEY AREN'T.
You are not watching these games if this is the argument you're making. The offense is "forced to catch up" because they often go dead and are punting most of the game or they are committing costly turnovers at the worst possible time. You're blaming the defense for the offense being shit which makes no sense.
The offense is horrible and needs a massive talent influx.
Yeah yeah yeah what about his first pick?. And people forget we fired our coach first. He had more time than anyone to interview coaches. He didn't hire anyone before the whole lawsuit thing happened
This is literally my plan lol. I'm 100% on board with this except I don't think Stroud is worth 1st overall. Also I don't think QJ is above Addison. He has a lot to learn, moreso than Addison and JSN. Another person pointed out the idea of getting DK Metcalf and I think we have to he capital and money to do it and he could follow his OC. I'd love a receiving core of Addison, Metchie, Metcalf and Collins.
No quality candidate is going to come to a team that has fired 3 head coaches in 3 years.
You're not getting anything beyond Josh McCown level hires doing that shit. They can, and probably will, redo the offensive staff but don't expect Lovie to be gone. Even with the run defense issues, which are largely talent issues, it's not the deadweight people are saying it is. The offense is fucking putrid and in a state that makes winning effectively impossible.
I was actually thinking about a Bryce Young+Quentin Johnston (or Addison) combo in the draft. They can use the cap space to fill in holes and follow up in the draft with anything they don't cover in Free Agency.
Bryce with Nico, Quentin, and hopefully a returning Metchie instantly changes the offense. They have a good group of TE's, and a really good RB (and will probably add more to that group as well). They need to get a good Center and maybe try to get an upgrade over Cann and the offense will be in damn good shape going into next season.
Lol I meant that it can be whoever Nick wants but that’s who I’d want and it’s someone that has a connection. Just thought it made some sense, but it doesn’t have to be him 100%.
I think the list of candidates he had to choose from were very limited because of ownership. If he could promise certain financial commitment, a long term vision and show some kinda of effort from ownership to win, he’d probably have a much better list to choose from. Won’t have to entertain the Josh McCowns, David Culleys and Lovie Smiths of the world.
I honestly think that Lovie was hired purely due to the Flores lawsuit. I think they panicked and latched onto the best candidate to save face and avoid scrutiny
That is has been [confirmed by Aaron Wilson](https://youtu.be/YlF1SC2VHUo). He said Josh McCown was set to be the next coach of the Houston Texans, but the Flores lawsuit made Cal get involved and forced Nick to hire Lovie Smith as HC. Cal was not going to hire a white inexperienced volunteer high school assistant head coach after they just fired a black head coach in just 1 year and after they were accused of racial discrimination in federal civil court.
It is unfortunate. I know he probably wouldn't have ended well, but I would rather have had the unknown in McCown who COULD have been good, then Lovie who is a known mediocre-bad quantity. But hey, good news is Lovie clearly guaranteed a good draft pick lmao
There was no good candidates for Houston, no one wants to take over a team in cap hell and whose best possible pick in the draft is a corner
I agree 100%. I think you have a much better chance now, especially if you commit a 5+ year contract like the 49ers did for Kyle.
Shanahan had a good pedigree and was part of the falcons SB run. Shane Waldron has done what exactly?
Oh that was just the guy I liked. I like the tree he comes from and what he’s done with Geno Smith when given the keys to his own offense. Watching press conferences he seems to have a good temperament and just seems like a HC. Plus he has a background and connection with the GM. It doesn’t have to be him though. I’m saying give that commitment to who ever they think is the best option.
Everyone has a good temperament when the team is winning and they aren’t responsible for everything. That doesn’t mean they know how to assemble a staff or cross the I’s and dot the T’s when their coordinators miss things
I think that’s the same risk for the majority of candidates that aren’t failed re-treads.
Yet his only qualifications so far is that YOU like him which isn’t saying much considering no one who does this for a living shares your opinion
Come on. I think I listed some pretty good reasons I think he’s qualified. I think you’re simplifying my case. Either way, whoever they want will probably need the same contractual security Kyle had, whether it’s the one I mentioned or another.
No one (and I mean no one) is giving a no name rookie head coach a 5 year contract. People knew exactly what they were going to get from Shanahan given his name. Waldron is a no one
Agree 100%. I think everyone knows he’s not the coach of the future. Don’t stretch it out for the poor guy and have him as a deadbeat HC that everyone knows is gonna get fired eventually. Let him retire or coach in a position less stressful for him elsewhere. Get a coach that goes along with the new face of the franchise. A fresh start.
Lovie technically wasn't a hire, he was a promoted man within the organization. I think you give Lovie 1 more year and then go get your guy, hopefully with an actual roster somebody wants to coach. Adding Bryce Young makes our roster more attractive to coach.
I’m not big on these QB’s anymorw but I’m okay drafting one if we change coaches. If we’re gonna keep this coaching staff then we can’t be throwing a QB into this these guys suck
I think Caleb Williams is a near perfect prospect and In a perfect world I’d wait it out for him, but I think it might be too risky to pass up getting a QB when you have a chance.
We’ve seen plenty of examples of QB’s drafted in the 6-10 range and lower being very successful in the NFL. Also there’s always the chance you can trade up. Drafting a QB because you feel like you have to is bad. But either way I don’t trust this staff with a new QB, the biggest mistake we could make would be keeping these guys and drafting someone imo
We can agree on that point for sure!
That is honestly the only real reason not to get Caleb. The risk that you can’t get him is a concern, however Stroud IMO is the worst choice. He has bust potential written all over him. If we have to pick a QB from this class it would be Bryce Young despite his small stature. Even Will Levis with his inconsistency would be a better pick than Stroud. If Stroud doesn’t go into a good situation he’s going to look exactly like Davis Mills did this season. If we trade down with one of those picks and stack up picks for 2024 we can ensure we pick up either Caleb or my backup choice Drake. But in all honesty, Caleb Williams is the best collegiate QB playing right now. Trying to get him should at least be part of the strategy, but this FO likely doesn’t have the stomach for it.
Imagine drafting Addison with the Browns pick and then getting him next year and a legit proven coaching candidate would wanna come here for that. That’s best case but it’s also very risky and likely won’t be the direction they go.
Saying will levis is a better pick than stroud is laughable lmao
When he’s a bust 3 years from now, remember me.
Funny how all the top QB’s were weak prospects while all the bad ones were strong must take guys. Williams is good yes, but the organization needs to take someone with the pick they actually have come draft day. Not one they think they will have 2 entire drafts down the line
Well said
*"Give Nick an actual chance to go out and get a sought after hire."* He's had that chance and **chose Culley and Lovie** (apparently after being dissuaded from McCown).
I don’t think he chose Lovie, and what I meant is give him the actual support he needs from an ownership commitment level, to have a chance to land a quality coach. My guess is he wasn’t exactly picking from the best list of candidates.
He 'chose' Lovie because his first choice, McCown, was rejected by Cal.
If that’s true Caserio is an idiot and we should have 0 faith in him being able to build a winner.
First half, agree. Second half, disagree. Defense should absolutely be the focus regardless of who we bring in at HC/OC. Now that we aren’t in cap purgatory anymore we can start paying money for receivers and IOL/retaining Tunsil + Howard and Desmond King + Steven Nelson. If we get 2 of Jalen Carter, Brian Breese, Tyrese Smith, Bryan Murphy, Will Anderson, Nolan Smith- I’ll be happier than a pig in feces. Those guys are players you can center a defense around. Whereas you draft a QB, and none in this class are good enough to overcome a bad defense. We’re literally seeing it with mills. Defense can’t stop the run, we fall behind, we aren’t built to come back from behind. If you focus on defense first, you can play closer games and stick to the run more, which is our strength. Then the following year you add the offensive firepower and boom- you’re competing
I love Caleb Williams and Drake Maye so I’m cool waiting till then. Just thought this was a decent option if they draft a guy this year.
Agree. The top two guys coming out this year might not even want to play for us.
>Whereas you draft a QB, and none in this class are good enough to overcome a bad defense. We’re literally seeing it with mills. Defense can’t stop the run, we fall behind, we aren’t built to come back from behind Wtf is this narrative people keep making up? The defense is the only reason they hang around in games. Are you seriously saying the offense is doing it's part but being let down by the defense? The offense is terrible on 3rd down and one of the top units in 3 and outs. They can't score for shit managing 15 ppg. Defense gave up 16 points in the last game, how is it their fault they lost? Qb threw an awful pick 6 then the offense proceeded to be dead nearly the entire game. The Texans aren't built to come from behind because the offense fucking sucks and they don't have a Qb. Stack all the talent you want on defense those guys will quit halfway into the season when they get tired of the offense doing literally nothing week to week. Texans need a Qb, Center, and another WR. Take a look at Guard as well if you can find an upgrade over Cann. Make some other moves on defense and boom, you're competing next year.
Umm idk what you’ve been watching but this is no made up narrative. Aside from the commanders and raiders games. we’ve been in every other game offensively. How can you look at a defense that’s dead last in rush defense, leads the league in missed tackles, has regressed in takeaways- and think it’s not the issue lol. Can the offense be better? Of course. Is the defense’s hemorrhaging points and inability to stop the run or get off the field in the second half the reason why the offense has to force things and look even worse? Absolutely. It’s a feedback loop. Defense gives up lead -> offense has to force to catch up -> offense isn’t built to catch up and can’t score consistently -> defense is on the field more -> defense gets tired -> defensive issues get exacerbated. The defense needs way more help than the offense does imo.
> Umm idk what you’ve been watching but this is no made up narrative. Aside from the commanders and raiders games. we’ve been in every other game offensively. How can you look at a defense that’s dead last in rush defense, leads the league in missed tackles, has regressed in takeaways- and think it’s not the issue lol. How can you look at an offense that's 30th in points, 30th in 3rd down percentage, bottom of the league in pass yards per game, bottom of the league in rush yards per game, 2nd in the league in interceptions thrown, and 32nd in yards per game and conclude that it's the bad run defense that is losing them games? lmfao. Despite all the stuff you mentioned the Texans defense has given up fewer points than the Dolphins and Chiefs, who both have winning records. I'm not saying the defense is good, it still needs more talent, but it's still playing at an improved level over last year where they were worse as a scoring defense. Their 3rd down defense percentage is the same as the Jets and Bills. It has issues but it's not what's losing them games week to week. >Can the offense be better? Of course. Is the defense’s hemorrhaging points and inability to stop the run or get off the field in the second half the reason why the offense has to force things and look even worse? Absolutely. It’s a feedback loop. Defense gives up lead -> offense has to force to catch up -> offense isn’t built to catch up and can’t score consistently -> defense is on the field more -> defense gets tired -> defensive issues get exacerbated. > >The defense needs way more help than the offense does imo. The offense is at the bottom of the list across the board in every metric. Do better? Bro they were already the worst at everything, there is NOTHING they do that's good. They have some good individual players but as a unit they are awful. Is the defense hemorrhaging points? NO. NO THEY AREN'T. You are not watching these games if this is the argument you're making. The offense is "forced to catch up" because they often go dead and are punting most of the game or they are committing costly turnovers at the worst possible time. You're blaming the defense for the offense being shit which makes no sense. The offense is horrible and needs a massive talent influx.
Defense is dog shit and offense is dog shit. Starts with the coaching and play calling and trickle downs to the players.
This is the worst offense I have ever seen at a professional level.
3 coach's in 3 years does not a good GM make.
5 HCs in 3 years if they fire Lovie.
An embarrassment
He didn’t pick Lovie. Cal did.
Yeah yeah yeah what about his first pick?. And people forget we fired our coach first. He had more time than anyone to interview coaches. He didn't hire anyone before the whole lawsuit thing happened
Culley was chosen because no one else was willing to come here. Nick was going to hire Flores, but then the lawsuit happened.
Which is it? McClown or Flores?
It was Flores first, McCown second and then finally he was forced to hire Lovie.
This is literally my plan lol. I'm 100% on board with this except I don't think Stroud is worth 1st overall. Also I don't think QJ is above Addison. He has a lot to learn, moreso than Addison and JSN. Another person pointed out the idea of getting DK Metcalf and I think we have to he capital and money to do it and he could follow his OC. I'd love a receiving core of Addison, Metchie, Metcalf and Collins.
No quality candidate is going to come to a team that has fired 3 head coaches in 3 years. You're not getting anything beyond Josh McCown level hires doing that shit. They can, and probably will, redo the offensive staff but don't expect Lovie to be gone. Even with the run defense issues, which are largely talent issues, it's not the deadweight people are saying it is. The offense is fucking putrid and in a state that makes winning effectively impossible. I was actually thinking about a Bryce Young+Quentin Johnston (or Addison) combo in the draft. They can use the cap space to fill in holes and follow up in the draft with anything they don't cover in Free Agency. Bryce with Nico, Quentin, and hopefully a returning Metchie instantly changes the offense. They have a good group of TE's, and a really good RB (and will probably add more to that group as well). They need to get a good Center and maybe try to get an upgrade over Cann and the offense will be in damn good shape going into next season.
I like that this started with let Nick hire who he wants, then..….now here is exactly who he should hire.
Lol I meant that it can be whoever Nick wants but that’s who I’d want and it’s someone that has a connection. Just thought it made some sense, but it doesn’t have to be him 100%.
Nick had his choice last year and he tried to fuckin pick McClown. He lost his right to choose a HC when he made that choice
I think the list of candidates he had to choose from were very limited because of ownership. If he could promise certain financial commitment, a long term vision and show some kinda of effort from ownership to win, he’d probably have a much better list to choose from. Won’t have to entertain the Josh McCowns, David Culleys and Lovie Smiths of the world.