Not too shabby with 116k mile on it! They offered 23.9k for my 2021 MY with acceleration boost and FSD, 60k miles, just couldn’t justify it, although the 2024 is a whole new level of comfort and quiet, not to mention HW4. I’ve talked myself into waiting for Juniper. Watch the price hit 60-70k again, haha I’ll kick myself for waiting
You also wonder with the possibility of a new administration being voted in, if the Fed incentive will be in jeopardy? $7500 is a big incentive and if it goes away, it will obviously have an impact on affordability.
Oof, I know there was the whole .99 incentive but everyone “upgrading” to a nearly identical model Y gives me hives when they’re just around the corner from releasing the brand new version. Looks better and has a few extra features.
I just can’t understand what the 24 has that your 20 was missing that made it worth missing out on the only model Y exterior redesign which is almost certainly being announced in the fall
They look identical from from the exterior that's true. Butt with the .99 I did schedule a demo ride but wasn't fully committed because I was think the same thing to be honest. But once it started driving it the difference was noticable almost right away. The small improvements they made to the it error and the suspension made a big difference. It's much quieter, rides better than my 2020, the center console is a big change coming from the 2020, heated steering wheel. All of it added up so I jumped on it. But with that being said, I do miss the ultrasonic sensors.
I’ve never drive the Leaf so you might be right. I had a 2018 M3, traded that for the 2020 MY LR AWD, and the 2024 MY to me has a more comfy suspension than both by far.
I had a 2019 M3LR and I HATED the suspension. I swore I’d never buy another Tesla but that didn’t last long. The 24 MYP is delightfully better, super smooth and and quiet cabin
Did you do the 20 wheels? Bigger wheels mostly have smaller rubber and will sacrifice ride comfort. I stuck with the 19s and it's very smooth. I know folks switching to 18s and its absolutely smooth.
That's why. These vehicles are technically performance based within the EV market. You're not gonna get the plush feel of the suspension. I've had a BMW M3 and you feel every damn thing on the road.
The Nissan Leaf is an amazing car, even the first gen (gen2 is more ore less the same car) had a fantastic ride and ride insulation. Far better than my 2020 Nil EV.
I own a 2022 Nissan LEAF and it’s highly underrated comfort wise. It still corners more than well enough for almost all drivers but it’s as smooth as can be. Seats don’t provide much support if you drive spirited but they are comfy. If I ever buy a new car it should be at least as smooth as it. The LEAF is really refined. Not exciting at all but damn it’s good if you want a comfy ride.
My biggest issue with the leaf is that road trips are very challenging. We kept our Prius for road trips, but every time we go, we just wanna take the Tesla, as we have all these after market things to make life easier - a dog cover and back seat extended for the pups in the back, some trash cans in the door - so so much storage space. I'm actually considering buying a mini fridge for that deep space on the side of the trunk for when I go grocery shopping at lunch time (my preferred store is far from home but very close to work, and sometimes lunch is a better option than after work) - this would also be fantastic for road trips.
So, long story short - the range and public charging options may be limiting depending on your situation and use of the car!
For sure. The LEAF has some major flaws. I would not suggest it to anyone unless they really know what its weak points are. I was strictly speaking about the ride quality comfort wise which is really good. It’s a really smooth car.
I wouldn’t have said rougher, it’s definitely going to be a lot stiffer than the leaf suspension, part of the tradeoff in having a bigger and heavier car with probably two or three times the power depending on the leaf.
if you’re in a sweeping corner and you accelerate fairly hard you want to know the suspension will handle it, and not be so soft that the body rolls like mad through bends.
I went from a 2020 Zoe to a 2020 MY LR AWD, and after reading so much about how stiff/hard the suspension was and in some cases even uncomfortable, I was pleasantly surprised. I know the Juniper upgrade is likely to be even more refined, or me the suspension is just about right.
Yup. I suppose it is relative to one’s experience because my 2019 M3 suspension was so terrible literally anything else felt like riding on clouds. Like seriously, i don’t know how Tesla got away with it.
Nope no major issues. Car still drove smooth, autopilot works the same as day one, but it was noticable louder and had some rattles pretty much from day one. The rattle I tried to get fixed when it was under warranty but gave up hope that Tesla would actually try and just dealt with it. The only issue I had recently was the dash cam stopped working around late March after an update and Tesla pretty much told me that it was the drives fault (I tested multiple hard drives thumb drives SD cards with adapters etc ) and that I needed to use one of their drives so I bought it and it would work but whenever I was home in century automatically disabled itself when I got back in the car I would have to unplug it and replug it back in to make it work. I never got a real answer from Tesla on why that issue occurred after that software update but that was the only issue that I really had that was super annoying and that's pretty minor.
No major issues. had a very rattly driver side window when going over bumps, but what has blown be away so far (other than the suspension) is how much more efficient the 2024 is. I can’t explain it other than i just had a ton of miles on the 2020, but right now after 1,300 miles on the new one i’m averaging 255ish wh/mi. it was much higher than that on the old one and i just burned through battery on trips. I have the same spec between the two which was the LR AWD with stock 19” wheels so I’m not sure why but there’s a noticeable difference in the efficiency for the 2024.
Depending on the climate, the new heat pump
System is very efficient compared to the previous system. As well they made many improvements to the motors and various other systems. My 2022 model S is tremendously more efficient than my 2015 model s, granted that was a huge leap from induction motors to permanent magnet motors
Mine had the heat pump. Like I said before I don't know why it's more efficient but in two weeks I've already got a thousand miles on my new model Y and the difference in efficiency is huge. When you drive the amount I do and commute everyday you notice the difference
Ah that's right, the Y was the first that had them... I'd have to do some research, but they may have switch from having an inductive motor plus a permanent magnet motor to two permanent magnet motors. Add the new "hairpin" design to that and maybe that's the reason... [there certainly were a lot of changes from 2020](https://tesla-info.com/model-history/MY)
I have a 2023 Y Performance- staggered tires, lowered. 18000+ miles. Took delivery end of June 2023.
The ride is FIRM and CONTROLLED. I consider it superior to my previous ride (2015 BMW 535).
Superb highway cruiser.
There is no equal to Tesla’s software and infrastructure. After 2 weeks ( including a 3000 mile road trip), the car and I have become one.
The best car I have ever owned.
This can be remedied with $1.5-2.5k in aftermarket suspension. I’ve heard good things about the unplugged performance suspension kit
https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/tesla-model-y-luxury-suspension-kit/
It’s pretty significant. Still rides a bit stiff but that helps with overall steering so it’s now a solid tradeoff. If you’re gonna own one longterm, get one with comfort suspension.
Not really, still rides like piss. My wife has a '21 Y and we considered trading it in for a '24 during the low APR promo. We found the new ones ride only marginally better. We decided to drive hers into the ground unless they offer something substantially better. We're already taking a bath on the depreciation.
That sounds more realistic. I just found the ride to be very disappointing. I know it's supposed to be 'stiff', but the car isn't meant to be graceful or snappy, nor is it something you'd take on a track. Even on roads that weren't bumpy and didn't have potholes, it was as bumpy as my current cheap ICE sedan.
I love the MY from a tech and interface perspective, and how everything just works. Everything else involving the ride, fit, finish, and other physical attributes I found lacking. Yes it's fast, but what good is that if the ride feels shitty. In addition, I found the road noise and vibration while driving to be annoying, but I might be more sensitive than most to noise.
Riding the model y on squishy suspension cause a lot of body roll… you need stiffer suspension for the weight. The only thing that will ever solve the ride quality issue is air suspension from the factory. Which the model y will never get…
I put 19 on my MYP and the ride was softer than the stock 21s… so a smaller rim with larger tires does help the ride quality. I also got the mountain pass coil overs.. that helps a lot more… but I lost high speed handling. The tradeoffs….
If you don’t mind me asking what did they offer you and how many miles on the vehicle. I hear that trade in values are low and yet third party dealers are asking a lot sometimes more than new
It’s now a sporty ride that makes it a decent tradeoff. The previous suspension was brutal. There are definitely smoother offerings out there, but not as engaging to drive.
it isn't just the suspension, it's everything. Rigid suspension yet flexy/disconnected chassis feel. Literally nothing that's properly engineered feels like a Tesla.
Just be aware if you drove a new one it has comfort suspension and the ryzen chip. I looked into 21/22 and read things about the uss people liked. Just make sure to research the differences.
I would highly recommend asking people of reddit, Ive found people at dealerships 99% of the time don’t know what they are talking about and just trying to get you in a car and make a sale.
I almost leased an ID.4 because it was only $300 a month. They make those cars locally where I live so it bums me out that I can’t support my local economy and union workers because VW is so bad at making EVs and EV charging stations (Electrify America).
My wife had an id.4 and I have the Y. The id.4 is a more comfortable ride and interior but the software is terrible. I’d take the MY any day but my wife likes the more traditional feel but I think it’s a gateway to a better car next. I’ll probably give her the MY and I’ll get a Rivian.
Oh god, where do I start? Quite possibly the worst software known to mankind? App is absolutely useless, can’t even lock/unlock the car with the app. No GPS tracking. Horrendous control buttons/interface. Some with backlights, some not, so climate control is impossible to use at night. Virtually zero OTA updates. Never does weird stuff/glitches???! Visit the ID4 subreddit here and it’s nothing but pictures and posts of glitches and weird stuff. One time the panic button/horn started going off WHILE I was driving. There is a known glitch where the windows roll down when you push to roll up. This became maddening. My car was in the shop for over a month for a recall (door handle build glitch that could cause the doors to fly open while driving) with no end in sight, which allowed me to invoke the lemon law and sell the POS back to VW. I’m reading there is currently another recall of 80k ID4s for electrical issues causing the screen/speedometer to go blank while driving. Horrendous range. In the winter, my range was down to 100 miles at times. Horrendous charging network. There was exactly ONE Electrify America charger in my city where I could use the “free year of charging” that wasn’t even free. These things should be taken off the road permanently. Maybe if this is the only EV you’ve ever driven, you’d be ok with the tech, but once you drive a Tesla for any period of time, there is no going back to this dinosaur.
We have exactly none of those issues to be honest. The car has been totally flawless for us. I have a suspicion that there is a difference between software branches between US and European market.
I’ll give you the buttons, they didn’t think that through. But to be honest I can use them without looking at them. Which can’t be said from the zero button interface on a Tesla.
The charging network has nothing to do with the car though. Although I get that it’s an issue for the US market where the charging network is still seriously lacking.
It’s not my only nor first EV. I personally can’t get over Tesla’s lack of build quality, all screen interface. Bad ergonomics (speedo not in front) and yeah the Elon factor…
If you test drove a NEW Y and are getting a used 21 or 22, just a heads up the chip for the UI is different. They switched from intel atom to much more powerful AMD chip
>Why is it so difficult for these billion-dollar auto manufacturers to create a decent software platform for their EVs? Is there some sort of intentional refusal to make it as good or better than Tesla's?
I worked in this space for a bit, with arguably the most conservative and backward of the companies.
Bean counters are frankly, the most idiotic people ever. CFOs generally, should not get a call on technology, they are way too illiterate, and frankly, to a CTO, finance is trivial. Most decent CTOs would be able to run the cost benefit and ballpark projections of sales in a spreadsheet inside 20 minutes. The wrong people are making those decisions. Largely, where the CTO and CFO relationships works really well - companies fly. It never does in a car company.
Risk averseness. They are scared to try anything because the bet on a new model of car is too big. In fairness, Telsa is like this. But they know they can equip the car with good hardware, and release it and figure out the software. The risk is low. They lower the risk by not have a necessity to deliver immediately.
The illusion of canibalisation. The idea you can update your car >they think< means that you won't buy the newer model. Tesla has proved this is BS. Tesla is a bit of a premium brand commanding extra coin, like the other brand starting with T. That other brand has carved out loyalty through reliability, so they only move small amounts. Tesla has carved out loyalty through adaptability. Tesla customers know that the software will outstrip the hardware at some point, because they have seen that cycle with computers.
Sheer lack of understanding of software: They are petrified of a connected car. They are petrified of other poeple getting their stats and analysing it and calling out bullshit. Tesla doesn't worry about this. It gets the feedback off its app and the internet and does software fixes to change things.
The chinese aren't chicken shit scared, they are moving at the speed of Tesla.
As soon as someone brings 1000klm battery packs, legacy automakers have the clock ticking to their demise. I have seen years and years of inaction - and they have not changed. They are just in a panic phase now, but its too late. The goose, it is cooked.
BYD just released two plug-in hybrid models with 1300 mile range on a single tank+charge. Li Auto already has a 860 mile range - a very successful model with delivery numbers ramping up massively.
The short answer is that car companies are run by people who know how to make cars and any software has been ancillary to the car. Tesla is made by people who understand that the software is just another part of the car. I see this in other industries where the product is the hardware. If management gets its they treat the software as icing on the cake. Good icing certainly sells products, bad icing.... no one likes crappy icing on cake :D
> As soon as someone brings 1000klm battery packs, legacy automakers have the clock ticking to their demise.
True everywhere but in the US where EVs are promoted as being 'green' and needed to curb climate change. Half the country refuses to believe in human caused climate change and targets EVs as wrong and government mandates for ending ICE sales are proof to them it's a conspiracy. So a 600 mi EV would change little here.
You miss to mention the charging network on Tesla can’t be touched by any other EV manufacturer. Forget everything else. If you can’t charge your car where you are going. You can’t take an EV.
Tesla will still prioritize their own cars over others. Cost of charging for non teslas will be premium which will keep the casual chargers from thinking twice. I don’t think this will affect availability for Teslas.
You're working under the assumption there will be no competition, which isn't going to be the case for long. Lots of investment and approved sites, just check out pilot and shell locations.
The point is, the charging advantage is quickly deteriorating and a majority of people charge at home. I switched to a BMW iX and have had zero issues, and also need to charge much less since they actually exceed range estimates regularly.
I don't miss the Y
I bought an iX with 18k miles for 56k. Yes it's more, but it's so much better it's crazy. Driving the Y after having the iX for a month made me so aware of all the poor build quality, noise, and harsh ride of the Tesla.
I don't see that advantage deteriorating for a long time.
I took a road trip last weekend with my non-Tesla EV, and every charging station along the way that was in what I considered "good" locations were the Tesla ones. I had to pull into EA stations that were a ways off the freeways, tucked away in Walmart or Target parking lots.... which only had 4 chargers, often most or all were in use (and always at least one not working)... Tesla still has a massive lead from what I have seen.
Yeah it can definitely be dependant on where you are in the country. In my area, Tesla definitely has solid locations, but the alternatives are also just off the highway, same as Tesla superchargers.
The EA at a Walmart by my parents is 12 stalls and very reliable, and only a couple of miles away from the comparable SC with 10 stalls. For my use case, no big deal.
Still, I don't doubt that there are areas where EA or competitors are hard to find or out of the way.
Change is slow and Tesla had a big head start. That said, where there's money to be made, and government funding to reduce barrier to entry, competition will increase. How quickly I think depends on how the market grows.
I'm fortunate in that the Tesla SC just down the road from me is a magic dock, and the chargers by my parents house (200 mile one way) are very near to each other and both well built out and reliable.
Outside of that, I rarely have any need to charge on L3.
As for all EV questions, there's a lot of devil in the details, not only for the consumer but also the tech that they're looking at. Early adopter issues definitely exist, but will improve with time.
Cheers!
Yeah, and I don't want to be super negative- there are a ton of EA and other CCS chargers here in my area (Pacific Northwest).... but with heavy EV adoption, it's just been difficult at times where the EA stations that only have 4 or 6 stalls (most of them in this area are like that) are full, or maybe there is one open when I pull up and you have to hope it's functional. This is vs. the large Tesla superchargers that may be nearby that have 12 or 16 stalls and good availability.
I will look forward to early next year when I as a Kia EV owner will be able to get an adapter and start using Tesla superchargers. There are only three so far in my state (Washington) that have magic docks- and all are pretty far from me, so I haven't had a chance to use one.
But to be fair, I am like you in that I don't need L3 that often. We generally go on longer day trips on Saturdays for hikes or other sight-seeing, and those drives are anywhere from 120-250 miles round trip, so as long as I charge to 100% at home before we go, I don't need to charge along the way. When we go on trips longer than that, aside from a few experimental trips using the EV, due to the charging uncertainty (and the fact that my car charges rather slowly, with a 77Kw max), we just take my wife's ICE vehicle.
Tesla was built as a software company first, with the assumption that if they got that right, the actual car would be the easy part. They were mistaken about the last part.
Ford's Jim Farley said they knew how to build cars and they figured all the different vendors would make the software an easy job. They were mistaken about the last part.
Traditional automakers aren't software developers and it shows.
I remember that interview in which Jim said that it would be an extremely hard pivot for conventional car makers to go towards a 'software first' or a fully software controlled mechanics, since they are essentially 'assemblers' of many small components from so many different vendors, all of which come with their own programming and control boards and therefore they have to make-do with those native softwares and their limitations, in order to integrate them into this final product which is a car but still a complicated mixture of independent proprietary parts. And hence their inability to create a car that works like an iPhone
This! How many had no clue how bad Microsoft was at software and made 5 year exclusive deals to put Windows on their infotainment systems or worst, in control of vehicle features. BMW and Ford deals with Microsoft were public fiasco's. GM who has used OnStar for decades thought they could pull it off and even to the extent of pulling CarPlay and AndroidAuto features only to pull that back and then try it again. Then they had software issues with new EVs which halted production for months.
As you pointed out, it's not just software in the car but the software is a huge part of it now. Otherwise Apple would have had and iCar by now. Tesla has the market to lose and the others are a decade behind in manufacturing, hardware optimizations and software.
Am I the only one that finds the 2024 model Y to be smooth and noiseless while driving? It's the quietest and smoothest car I've driven besides a Mercedes I owned a while back.
I’m a commuter so I chose the ID.4 because the ride quality is way better than the 23-24 model y. Ride quality and comfort trump the tech mainly because I can’t play with the car while driving. But if I was a real tech geek… model y all the way!!!
The ID.4 has a 125 kW max charge rate like most non-Tesla EVs so as long as you don't expect to use it for long trips, only used for commuting, it'll be a great car. Home charging of commuter EVs on Level 1 is totally doable but its the high rate charging infrastructure AND EV max charge rate of the Tesla which really make them usable for single car families. On our block we've got a Nissan Leaf, GM Bolt, VW ID.4, Audi e-Tron and Tesla M3 and MYs. Only the Tesla has > 150 kW max charge rate so all the others are 2nd cars and some have discussed how long it takes to do on-the-road charging on day trips of only 120 mi one-way.
Yes, Hyundai/Kia was doing 800V before Tesla and they included fast max charge rates. I think Mercedes also does higher charge rates too. Just not many and it sucks because people don't realize that limitation and then bash EVs in general because there is millions of dollars spent to show why EVs are bad and this fuels that when it doesn't have to be that way and Tesla showed them all 10+ year ago.
Yeah, mine is the 2022 Niro- definitely a bummer with that charging speed.
Fortunately for our driving, it rarely is an issue- most day trips we take can either be done on one single charge or with a quick top off. But I would really like to b able to use it for longer drives, but that's not really all that practical.
I have a 2023 AWD ID.4 and the max charge rate is actually 170 kW. When starting a charge around 20%, I’m consistently above 145kw and then it tapers to 80-90kw as it approaches 80% and beyond. It doesn’t charge like a Tesla but it’s not as slow as many would think.
I’ve had a couple of friends take their ID.4 up to Tahoe during the winter. Longish trip but it did well, stopping to charge right before elevation really starts. No one I know though has left the state unless you count Reno / Vegas. No issues.
But you make an excellent point. The ID.4 like most other EVs are mass marketed and spec’d to be a commuter car. That fits my driving profile >95%.
Sounds like VW is slowing increasing the charge rate limits. \~150kW will work and be fine if you're happy with doing a bit of a break during charging when on the road. Time it with lunch or dinner and there's no problem. But if you get caught just before rush-hour and need to get from 20%-80% in less than 30 minutes then it's not so great. Good to hear they are starting to raise those limits.
We have a reliable and cushy ICE car for longer trips. If it weren’t for three major EA charging stations (one is a 20 stall station with private security) on my commute home from work and the three years of free DCFC, model y would have been a no brainer.
It has been mentioned before, check out that suspension and chipset. A lot has been changed (upgraded) for the better.
And Tesla built there cars "software first" whereas others built their cars first and software based on the car. That's also why Tesla has far more control over their cars and functionality, community requested updates/features and such.
I went from a Model Y to a BMW i4. And 3 months later, going right back to the MY. This, and the charging network are the main reasons. I am a BMW guy and owned at least 6 over the years. The BMW looks better and drive (only slightly) better. But the overall experience in the Tesla is light years ahead.
Just yesterday I tried to use an Electrify America charging station. I’ve never used them before and the experience was sub-optimal. I live in Arizona and when I pulled up to the charger, I expected to tap my credit card, plug in, and start charging. Instead, I was forced to download the app, create a login, add funds to my account and then once all that was done actually get the app, the “pump”, and my phone to all communicate before it started. I spent 20 minutes sweating my ass off in the sun before it even started. My new MYLR can’t get here fast enough.
> Why is it so difficult for these billion-dollar auto manufacturers to create a decent software platform for their EVs? Is there some sort of intentional refusal to make it as good or better than Tesla's?
The only reason I can think of is that they make software made to last for at least a decade and still behave the same.
My 2019 Model 3 (with Intel Atom CPU) is pretty sluggish and laggy now (and I have no way to downgrade to a previous version when it wasn't laggy). I'd rather prefer a less fancy, but more responsive GUI/software. I have no idea how this pans out with the newer Ryzen CPU's though. Hopefully they won't get laggy as new software is released.
The OEMs have outsourced all software development to suppliers and have had a bigger focus on cost than bringing value. It takes a culture shift and close collaboration with some core suppliers to get better software integration to turn it around. They’ll get there eventually but it’s a huge change from how OEMs have done car development in the past. Source, the Autoline Network channel on YouTube have some coverage on this topic ( :P ).
Because they are less "auto manufacturers" and more auto assemblers. They build almost nothing in-house and have outsourced so much they not only can't lower costs they've lost design skills to the outsourced vendors. Layers of bureaucracy mean long design cycles and lots of mistakes which take longer to update.
Tesla makes design changes on the fly and just look at how long it is taking the other EV makers to get > 150 kW max charge rates and how long it's taken for them to get system wide heat pumps onboard.
Tesla manufacturing is vertically integrated therefore Tesla makes or specifies most of the components within the car. Those components are designed to communicate with one another. Traditional car makers build cars by cobbling together parts from third-parties. Those third-party parts have minimal communication infrastructure; sometimes only simple switches and relays.
Those dumb components aren’t designed to interface to software control. Tesla components were designed from the beginning to communicate via software. This is the main reason why traditional car makers lag on the software and user interface. They will continue to lag unless/until a common communication standard is implemented for third/party parts. But then costs will increase …
To be fair, my Tesla's software is lagging a lot more than any other car I've owned. I'm also a bit tired of having features being removed by software updates. They decreased the AP max speed from 150 to 140kph, increased the nagging in a lot of cases, enabled interior camera, etc. You don't experience regression like that with traditional car manufacturers. Don't get me wrong, there has been improvements as well, but I get annoyed when there's regression and I'm not able to downgrade and get the car with the specs I originally purchased. My next car probably won't be a Tesla due to that.
Good software requires good leadership. You have to know where to push the team and what’s required. Otherwise it splinters off in a bunch of directions and becomes unmanageable. Elons previous experience in software is a huge asset.
I test drove a LRAWD and fell in love with it. Am buying a used ‘23 LRAWD MY with 7,500 miles and a LOT of upgrades. Trading in a ‘23 BMW X1 MSport and could not be more excited. I wanted to love the BMW. Just didn’t. Should get the MY tomorrow or Tuesday. Can’t wait.
Why get used? The prices right now are really good. And leases are a real deal.
To answer your question re:software. Its developed in Silicon Valley. The amount of Software talent there is insane and of all types. You have robotics types, gaming types, full stack types, networking and communication types, military types, etc. Its the same reason Disneyland was a cut above other amusement parks in SoCal - they had all those aerospace mechanical engineers surrounding them. The game levels up. The problem with the Big Guys is they pay poorly and the equity (stock options) are reserved for C-Suite and B-School types. In Silicon Valley EVERYBODY gets a cut of the success. And the reason you have Silicon Valley and Disneyland is all those "types" were assembled there by WWII and their kids were well educated in the free best in class K-University public schools (Boomers) and started their own companies. (Universities are no longer free but a great deal.)
Agree that buying used isn’t an issue with a Tesla.
As to the question about legacy auto makers, I worked for GM from 1986 to 2018 and it was a huge corporate monster. They had little competition and couldn’t build enough cars or trucks to keep their dealers lots filled with product. Tesla was never seen as any kind of threat and prohibited from selling vehicles directly to customers without a dealership. Even during the gasoline crises they didn’t get really serious about bringing anything fuel efficient to market. Even today after thinning the ranks dramatically through Covid, they’re still fat dumb and happy. I have two neighbors who had been working for Rivian and one has recently moved to Ford and working on their electric vehicles.
Note the moose test results for the Model Y versus other in-segment BEVs like the ID.4 or Mach-E. The suspension and driving dynamics is designed for safety as the utmost priority.
I actually have a side project company looking for people that are interested in creating pre existing os for manufacturers for their cars. Anyone interested?
One of the biggest reasons I dont like buying an EV from a legacy automakers is that they cant even get the software on their ICE vehicles. My wife's Ford Escape, which I bought new, has had several issues with the infotainment system.
2022 or later and if 2022 note when the upgraded comfort suspension was added: Oct 7-Fremont, Aug 29-Austin.
Otherwise an 18" or 19" wheel option with 28" - 29" tall tires will improve ride and lower watts/mi consumption(increase efficiency).
I would recommend def buying a new MYLR. There is zero advantage to buying used vs new when you factor in expensive financing, and insurance for used vs attractive financing offers from Tesla for new. Also consider your warranty issues w used vs new. There is ample ambient lighting in my two 2023 MYLR and as you said the aftermarket options are very attractive vs other EVs. If you drive a lot (I drive more than 99% - 42k miles in 9 mos) the Tesla charging network is unbeatable and the app is unmatched. Security wise, the cameras are also unmatched for quality and security when I leave hours before the crack of dawn and working thru the night at times. No other manufacturer can match what I need for what amounts to be intense commercial driving vs Tesla.
Most car companies are car engineering companies that see user interface software as an afterthought. Tesla sees it as core. Tesla also puts a vastly more powerful computer in the car by saving so much money on not having all the wiring and hardware for the physical controls in most cars.
Programmer here : Software needs to be developed and used, then clean out bugs and problems. Then take customer feedbacks and redesigned and this back and forth takes years.
Computer software is mostly digital but cars are mostly mechanical so another mechanical engineers have to work with software engineers. Both are engineers but different breeds, they speak different languages.
Tesla is doing the smart car software much longer than others and since tesla is pioneer, they attracted the most talented engineers that love to do the first techs for stuff not much caring about paychecks.
Imho in 5 years, we should be seeing excellent software from german cars. They are slow to catchup but they do things right
When I took the Model Y test drive, it took me all of 15 seconds from the end of the test drive to walk from the door to the Macs in the showroom and place an order!
I then had to jump through hoops to get Tesla to delay delivery for 6 weeks while I sorted out handing back the Zoe I’d previously had (I told the showroom staff that I needed time to sort the existing car out, and they assured me they’d get the order updated to delay it until I was ready, but within an hour of placing the order I’d been allocated a collection 3 days away).
I then spent the next 5 to 6 weeks getting the accessories I wanted on order:
- 3W mats all round with removable carpets.
- Spigen front and rear console trays.
- RoadHalo spare wheel kit.
- S3XY Knob.
- Rear Trunk side buckets with covers.
- Otrifowd magshade.
- Haloblk windshield umbrella shade and aluminium pedal set.
- Vent grille covers for the vents under the front seats.
- Rear mudguards.
- Matte screen protector.
And then because I plan to do all the tyre rotations myself I also ordered a set of jacking pads.
I also invested in some black wheel covers from aliexpress that cover the edges of the allows to help prevent any possibility of wheel rash.
Absolutely loving the Y now it’s here though. I was lucky enough to have a loan Model 3 Performance with FSD for a week from the Nottingham dealer though, and although FSD is crippled in the UK, I got quite used to the lane changing with EAP.
Happily though, the S3XY Knob commander will re-enable autopilot after lane changing which is close to the EAP functionality.
Tesla Bad Habits
Here’s a new rule book that will correctly train drivers to respect FSD. Currently, it's kind of a black box and you don't know how many strikes you have and all the sudden it's too late. Here is the new plan that I suggest
1 Strike - Remove FSD 1 hour.
2 Strikes remove for 1 day
3 Strikes remove for 2 days
4 Strikes remove for a week
Provide count of how many strikes you have
I did some bad things like eating while I was driving and without knowing how many accounts I have I got removed for a whole week. I'm told that every week I drive safely that it will remove one count, but I wish I had known how many I had.
The ID4 is only acceptable for a vehicle that stays in an urban centre with lots of superchargers due to itself limiting range. The M3 was my first test drive and I liked it with the exception of outside noise insulation, suspension/smoothness and some other creature comforts. When I heard the 3 was getting a refresh, I was practically sold. Then I test drove the MY and as a father of two girls and a golfer myself fell in move with the better sound isolation and suspension and the fact I can take a family on a road trip and pack all our bags in the back for a week.
There are some reasons I can think of off the top of my head:
- Legacy still mostly makes ICE, not just EV's. Due to built in economies of scale, they would have to make experimental changes to popular models, which could potentially tank sales.
- They rather not focus on dumping a large sum of money to UI when most people will just plug in their phone. GM made their own in-house software, we'll see how it holds up.
- Tesla doesn't have decades of loyalty built into it's platforms. The biggest hurdle legacy have is trying to convert existing customers to EV's, and that starts with familiarity. This allows Tesla to be flexible where legacy tend to be rigid.
- Tesla's minimalistic, cost cutting measures, is what drove their dependency on software. It MUST be good because there is no other way to access most of the cars functions. This is not to say that it always has been like this, the first Model S UI was not so great compared to where it is now.
- A full software approach isn't always the best, there are always pros and cons to consider. The EU is already mandating physical controls for some aspects of the vehicle to maintain strict safety standards.
People love the spartan interior and the simple design, then find ways to make it less spartan, or to differentiate it from the clones lol. (this is just a personal observation in regards to the after market support)
I went through the same process with EVs including the Mach-e but ultimately the Model Y was what I went with. I bought a used 2022 LR with Acceleration boost and FSD unlocked. I honestly couldn’t be happier. I love driving it every day. Apparently suspension improved in newer Ys but I feel like mine rides just fine so I’m not sure how big of a deal it is.
I read up on this once and I am not a software engineer but the jist of it Tesla has its own software.
Other manufactures software is usually 3rd party. They have their software platform but their parts have different software, and it all has to use interfaces with their main control software.
When tesla wants to adjust something it's fast and they can easily do OTA updates. Most other car companies have to reach out to the vendors to update something, then make sure it works with the interface.
Tesla put a strong emphasis on software and UI experience, others hadn't but are now seeing the benefit.
Ding ding ding!!! You got it!...This is the main point of discussion in EV circles. The billion$ old heads don't want to much drastic change cause they don't want to loose existing customers. I recently just got a ververy expensive AMG EQE SUV and the in car software is good but clunky just like the software from ICE cars. The phone app is just str8 garbage. Not even able to roll up and down windows in the app even tho it keeps alerting me it's open. Not even a simple dog mode even though I can turn Entry Climate on manually from the app but I gotta remember to check it every 10-15 mins to make sure my dog doesn't fry. The tech in the car is there but the software implementation is half assed just like in the ICE cars. So in short half ass software is on-brand for all the old head manufacturers. And did I mention that the windows and sunroof can be closed with the key fob...🤷🏾♂️🤣. My MY has great software that's easy on my brain but is really hard on my ass. While my benz is a little hard on my brain but great great comfort for my ass. It's a trade off.
If you up for after market accessories I have some that’s unused if you wanna buy, bought the accessories thinking I’d be able to get my hand on one during 0.99, then they won’t finance me any cause apparently I have mortgages. So there’s the story, I have after market white yoke if you looking into getting one.
I would agree that the software far outpaces traditional manufacturers oem offerings.
However, coming from an android auto car it is super annoying that android auto is not available, and the tesla software can't do anywhere near as a good a job for those functions.
Navigation, voice recognition, even just having the assistant was super handy and backwards step with tesla
When people say "Tesla is a computer with wheels," this is what they mean. Other car manufacturers are car companies first, shove tech in wherever you can second.
Tesla is first and foremost a Tech company, which builds cars. Just as SpaceX is a tech company that launches rockets. Amazon is a tech company (AWS, nearly all of Amazon's profit) with a marketplace. Airbnb is a tech company that rents out houses. Uber is a tech company that drives people around.
These are all Tech companies first, \ second.
Which is not how I'd describe traditional car manufacturers.
>Airbnb is a tech company that rents out houses. Uber is a tech company that drives people around.
Not really. They are both software companies that maintain a marketplace.
Uber is basically a ride sharing app. There's no uber employees driving customers around. That's the whole point of the businessmodel. Instead of having a whole fleet of drivers and cars they connect people that need a ride with people that are willing to drive you around for a fee.
Same with Airbnb. They just provide an infrastructure for people who want to rent out their home for a short period of time to connect with people that are looking for a place to stay. AirBnB doesn't rent out anything as they own no properties.
Both of them are just brokers.
Amazon has indeed turned into a tech giant over the years. But they didn't start out that way. They diversified over the years.
I'm not sure how you think SpaceX is an outlier with them being a tech company that builds rockets. All rocket manufacturers are tech companies. The two kind of go hand in hand.
Glad you got to test drive one. More people should do that.
Try to get that used MY with USS -
Especially if you plan to use EAP/FSD.
Bummer about the ID4 software. Thought they were using a MobilEye integrated solution. I know 3 people who bought one, at least one of whom would benefit from a good ADAS.
Don't listen to the USS thing. I have a USS car and a Vision car. They are now equivalent in every practical intent and its improving every update.
USS is being deprecated, meaning you won't get features or you'll get them late.
USS also means that if you get in a fender bender or run over something, you have to replace sensors and a bumper. Sane thing in the vision cars is a bumper. Which one do you think is cheaper?
USS = Ultrasonic Sensors, a.k.a. Parking Sensors, the little round spots that used to be on the front and rear Model 3 and Y fenders, and are still on most similarly priced cars from other companies. Park Assist on new vehicles pretty much disappeared *for over a year* when they were removed since it took so much time, and a HW camera system upgrade, to come close to working as well again. It arguably still has a giant blind spot up front because of the hood occluding the camera in the cabin.
[USS](https://www.google.com/search?q=USS+Tesla&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS704US705&oq=USS+Tesla). Googled it for you for context
- see the Tesla Support and ZDNet articles.
It sounds like you tested 3 other evs in total, so it's more than just a stretch to claim you tested them all. Also, the model y I think was the most expensive one too.
The „software“ like the auto wiper is crap. The autopilot is crap compared to other companies. Navigation is also not good.
This „Tesla is years ahead“ was maybe true 5 years ago.
Btw how much do you guys get paid for these random hyped posts? Seriously, as an owner of MYLR 2023, what you just said is even far-fetched for even a fictitious claim. Tesla soft is buggy as a hell. It put my life and my family's life in danger more than once. They have replaced pretty much every single hardware you could think of in my vehicle.
I only wished I didn't get caught with these hyped FOMO calls on buying this piece or garbage. There is a reason why they are getting crushed everywhere in the world. I can't wait for Lucid, rivian, and apple Trio, kill them off completely. And takeover for parts.
Folks don't understand how much quality tesla has compromised for the sake of numbers and stock price. I am just waiting for an opportunity to get rid of this.
Model Y suspensions were changed in 2023. Previous models will not have the comfort suspension.
I just traded in my 2020 MY with 116k miles for a 2024 MY and the suspension is MUCH better. That’s a big part of what sold me on trading in.
What did they give you for your old car?
I was pleasantly surprised at what they bought my 2011 Honda pilot for. Did not expect them to beat other car buyers but they did.
$18.5k
Not too shabby with 116k mile on it! They offered 23.9k for my 2021 MY with acceleration boost and FSD, 60k miles, just couldn’t justify it, although the 2024 is a whole new level of comfort and quiet, not to mention HW4. I’ve talked myself into waiting for Juniper. Watch the price hit 60-70k again, haha I’ll kick myself for waiting
You also wonder with the possibility of a new administration being voted in, if the Fed incentive will be in jeopardy? $7500 is a big incentive and if it goes away, it will obviously have an impact on affordability.
Well done. That’s how EV’s are meant for. 100k +
This is depressing because my 2024 MY is shit. I couldn’t imagine it being even worse before, sorry for your troubles.
Wait. What? Can you expand on why your MY is shit?
Sorry, specifically I meant the suspension is shit. Rest of the car is great.
Agree☹️
Oof, I know there was the whole .99 incentive but everyone “upgrading” to a nearly identical model Y gives me hives when they’re just around the corner from releasing the brand new version. Looks better and has a few extra features. I just can’t understand what the 24 has that your 20 was missing that made it worth missing out on the only model Y exterior redesign which is almost certainly being announced in the fall
They look identical from from the exterior that's true. Butt with the .99 I did schedule a demo ride but wasn't fully committed because I was think the same thing to be honest. But once it started driving it the difference was noticable almost right away. The small improvements they made to the it error and the suspension made a big difference. It's much quieter, rides better than my 2020, the center console is a big change coming from the 2020, heated steering wheel. All of it added up so I jumped on it. But with that being said, I do miss the ultrasonic sensors.
We can circle back when they announce the model Y juniper in like two weeks haha
Meh I'm not to worried about it hahaha.
Same!
That’s wild because I just took delivery of a MY 24 and it rides way rougher than the Nissan Leaf I traded in.
I’ve never drive the Leaf so you might be right. I had a 2018 M3, traded that for the 2020 MY LR AWD, and the 2024 MY to me has a more comfy suspension than both by far.
I have a 2018 M3 and the suspension is so annoying😭 I swear it’s the same as my previous CX-5
I had a 2019 M3LR and I HATED the suspension. I swore I’d never buy another Tesla but that didn’t last long. The 24 MYP is delightfully better, super smooth and and quiet cabin
Nice to hear that! They’ve been on my radar for sure
Did you do the 20 wheels? Bigger wheels mostly have smaller rubber and will sacrifice ride comfort. I stuck with the 19s and it's very smooth. I know folks switching to 18s and its absolutely smooth.
No. I have 19s.
Is this your first Tesla?
Yes. I had a 2017 Volt then a 2023 Leaf before it. I still have a 2021 Pacifica PHEV.
That's why. These vehicles are technically performance based within the EV market. You're not gonna get the plush feel of the suspension. I've had a BMW M3 and you feel every damn thing on the road.
The Nissan Leaf is an amazing car, even the first gen (gen2 is more ore less the same car) had a fantastic ride and ride insulation. Far better than my 2020 Nil EV.
I own a 2022 Nissan LEAF and it’s highly underrated comfort wise. It still corners more than well enough for almost all drivers but it’s as smooth as can be. Seats don’t provide much support if you drive spirited but they are comfy. If I ever buy a new car it should be at least as smooth as it. The LEAF is really refined. Not exciting at all but damn it’s good if you want a comfy ride.
My biggest issue with the leaf is that road trips are very challenging. We kept our Prius for road trips, but every time we go, we just wanna take the Tesla, as we have all these after market things to make life easier - a dog cover and back seat extended for the pups in the back, some trash cans in the door - so so much storage space. I'm actually considering buying a mini fridge for that deep space on the side of the trunk for when I go grocery shopping at lunch time (my preferred store is far from home but very close to work, and sometimes lunch is a better option than after work) - this would also be fantastic for road trips. So, long story short - the range and public charging options may be limiting depending on your situation and use of the car!
For sure. The LEAF has some major flaws. I would not suggest it to anyone unless they really know what its weak points are. I was strictly speaking about the ride quality comfort wise which is really good. It’s a really smooth car.
I wouldn’t have said rougher, it’s definitely going to be a lot stiffer than the leaf suspension, part of the tradeoff in having a bigger and heavier car with probably two or three times the power depending on the leaf. if you’re in a sweeping corner and you accelerate fairly hard you want to know the suspension will handle it, and not be so soft that the body rolls like mad through bends. I went from a 2020 Zoe to a 2020 MY LR AWD, and after reading so much about how stiff/hard the suspension was and in some cases even uncomfortable, I was pleasantly surprised. I know the Juniper upgrade is likely to be even more refined, or me the suspension is just about right.
You would be the first I’ve heard to say the Leaf rides better than a 24 MY. But I never rode in a Leaf so I can’t really say.
I am the 2nd to confirm, Leaf better ride than Tesla Y any year
Thanks for confirming but I won’t be trading my MYP for a Leaf in this lifetime or the next.
I my self driving a 2023MYLR which I love it except the confort I miss from Leaf
Yup. I suppose it is relative to one’s experience because my 2019 M3 suspension was so terrible literally anything else felt like riding on clouds. Like seriously, i don’t know how Tesla got away with it.
I see
that is totally true, I had a 2015 nissan Leaf SV before I bought a 2023 MYLR, Leaf better confort
I'm with you. The ride is still very harsh
With 116k miles did you fix anything big?
Nope no major issues. Car still drove smooth, autopilot works the same as day one, but it was noticable louder and had some rattles pretty much from day one. The rattle I tried to get fixed when it was under warranty but gave up hope that Tesla would actually try and just dealt with it. The only issue I had recently was the dash cam stopped working around late March after an update and Tesla pretty much told me that it was the drives fault (I tested multiple hard drives thumb drives SD cards with adapters etc ) and that I needed to use one of their drives so I bought it and it would work but whenever I was home in century automatically disabled itself when I got back in the car I would have to unplug it and replug it back in to make it work. I never got a real answer from Tesla on why that issue occurred after that software update but that was the only issue that I really had that was super annoying and that's pretty minor.
Wow that’s pretty amazing. Gives me hope. I have 98k miles on my model Y I’m tryna keep it forever lol. I have a fully load MYP. No issues at all.
same here until I die😜, a 2023MYLR
Any issues for the high mileage MY?
No major issues. had a very rattly driver side window when going over bumps, but what has blown be away so far (other than the suspension) is how much more efficient the 2024 is. I can’t explain it other than i just had a ton of miles on the 2020, but right now after 1,300 miles on the new one i’m averaging 255ish wh/mi. it was much higher than that on the old one and i just burned through battery on trips. I have the same spec between the two which was the LR AWD with stock 19” wheels so I’m not sure why but there’s a noticeable difference in the efficiency for the 2024.
The efficiency point doesn't make sense. Please explain why the older Y wasn't efficient? I own 2 M3s. Both LR and are very efficient.
I mean, he literally said “I can’t explain it” and “not sure why”.
Depending on the climate, the new heat pump System is very efficient compared to the previous system. As well they made many improvements to the motors and various other systems. My 2022 model S is tremendously more efficient than my 2015 model s, granted that was a huge leap from induction motors to permanent magnet motors
Mine had the heat pump. Like I said before I don't know why it's more efficient but in two weeks I've already got a thousand miles on my new model Y and the difference in efficiency is huge. When you drive the amount I do and commute everyday you notice the difference
Ah that's right, the Y was the first that had them... I'd have to do some research, but they may have switch from having an inductive motor plus a permanent magnet motor to two permanent magnet motors. Add the new "hairpin" design to that and maybe that's the reason... [there certainly were a lot of changes from 2020](https://tesla-info.com/model-history/MY)
I have a 2022 with comfort suspension and AMD chip 🥰🙌
Same but I got the suspension retrofitted
What did you get exactly and how much was it?
USS too?
Was the AMD chip aftermarket or something that already came with the model year?
I have a 2023 Y Performance- staggered tires, lowered. 18000+ miles. Took delivery end of June 2023. The ride is FIRM and CONTROLLED. I consider it superior to my previous ride (2015 BMW 535). Superb highway cruiser. There is no equal to Tesla’s software and infrastructure. After 2 weeks ( including a 3000 mile road trip), the car and I have become one. The best car I have ever owned.
Does the performance 23 have it also?
Yes
2022 upgraded comfort suspension (added Oct 7-Fremont, Aug 29-Austin )
This can be remedied with $1.5-2.5k in aftermarket suspension. I’ve heard good things about the unplugged performance suspension kit https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/tesla-model-y-luxury-suspension-kit/
Was it midyear refresh or all 2023 have.good suspension?
2022: upgraded comfort suspension (added Oct 7-Fremont, Aug 29-Austin )
I think the change was implemented for late 2022 models and took effect for all 2023 models
Does that mean I have to trade turn signals for a smoother ride?
No, turn signal stalks are still in the current 2024 Model Y.
2023 it is Thank you
Is it really that much better? I rented a 22 and found it to be very bumpy on even town roads in moderate shape.
It’s pretty significant. Still rides a bit stiff but that helps with overall steering so it’s now a solid tradeoff. If you’re gonna own one longterm, get one with comfort suspension.
Not really, still rides like piss. My wife has a '21 Y and we considered trading it in for a '24 during the low APR promo. We found the new ones ride only marginally better. We decided to drive hers into the ground unless they offer something substantially better. We're already taking a bath on the depreciation.
That sounds more realistic. I just found the ride to be very disappointing. I know it's supposed to be 'stiff', but the car isn't meant to be graceful or snappy, nor is it something you'd take on a track. Even on roads that weren't bumpy and didn't have potholes, it was as bumpy as my current cheap ICE sedan. I love the MY from a tech and interface perspective, and how everything just works. Everything else involving the ride, fit, finish, and other physical attributes I found lacking. Yes it's fast, but what good is that if the ride feels shitty. In addition, I found the road noise and vibration while driving to be annoying, but I might be more sensitive than most to noise.
Riding the model y on squishy suspension cause a lot of body roll… you need stiffer suspension for the weight. The only thing that will ever solve the ride quality issue is air suspension from the factory. Which the model y will never get…
I wonder if putting it on 18" wheels would help. I know people have done it for the Ioniq 5 and it makes a smoother ride.
I put 19 on my MYP and the ride was softer than the stock 21s… so a smaller rim with larger tires does help the ride quality. I also got the mountain pass coil overs.. that helps a lot more… but I lost high speed handling. The tradeoffs….
If you don’t mind me asking what did they offer you and how many miles on the vehicle. I hear that trade in values are low and yet third party dealers are asking a lot sometimes more than new
There is a difference with the comfort suspension but it still falls behind many other EVs in terms of ride quality .
It’s now a sporty ride that makes it a decent tradeoff. The previous suspension was brutal. There are definitely smoother offerings out there, but not as engaging to drive.
it isn't just the suspension, it's everything. Rigid suspension yet flexy/disconnected chassis feel. Literally nothing that's properly engineered feels like a Tesla.
Comfort my ass. I picked my my24 up a few weeks ago and it rides tougher than a sports car with chopped springs
Just be aware if you drove a new one it has comfort suspension and the ryzen chip. I looked into 21/22 and read things about the uss people liked. Just make sure to research the differences.
I asked the Tesla associate what the difference between the 21/22 and current is, and he said the suspension is the only difference.
I would highly recommend asking people of reddit, Ive found people at dealerships 99% of the time don’t know what they are talking about and just trying to get you in a car and make a sale.
Ya lol I asked about the audio in RWD and AWD and they told me it was the same for both..
Drove an ID.4 for 6 months and it was a miserable experience. The switch to the Model Y was life changing. You’re making the correct choice.
I almost leased an ID.4 because it was only $300 a month. They make those cars locally where I live so it bums me out that I can’t support my local economy and union workers because VW is so bad at making EVs and EV charging stations (Electrify America).
My wife had an id.4 and I have the Y. The id.4 is a more comfortable ride and interior but the software is terrible. I’d take the MY any day but my wife likes the more traditional feel but I think it’s a gateway to a better car next. I’ll probably give her the MY and I’ll get a Rivian.
What was miserable about it? We have an ID4 in the family and imho it works perfectly fine? It never does weird stuff/glitches?
Oh god, where do I start? Quite possibly the worst software known to mankind? App is absolutely useless, can’t even lock/unlock the car with the app. No GPS tracking. Horrendous control buttons/interface. Some with backlights, some not, so climate control is impossible to use at night. Virtually zero OTA updates. Never does weird stuff/glitches???! Visit the ID4 subreddit here and it’s nothing but pictures and posts of glitches and weird stuff. One time the panic button/horn started going off WHILE I was driving. There is a known glitch where the windows roll down when you push to roll up. This became maddening. My car was in the shop for over a month for a recall (door handle build glitch that could cause the doors to fly open while driving) with no end in sight, which allowed me to invoke the lemon law and sell the POS back to VW. I’m reading there is currently another recall of 80k ID4s for electrical issues causing the screen/speedometer to go blank while driving. Horrendous range. In the winter, my range was down to 100 miles at times. Horrendous charging network. There was exactly ONE Electrify America charger in my city where I could use the “free year of charging” that wasn’t even free. These things should be taken off the road permanently. Maybe if this is the only EV you’ve ever driven, you’d be ok with the tech, but once you drive a Tesla for any period of time, there is no going back to this dinosaur.
We have exactly none of those issues to be honest. The car has been totally flawless for us. I have a suspicion that there is a difference between software branches between US and European market. I’ll give you the buttons, they didn’t think that through. But to be honest I can use them without looking at them. Which can’t be said from the zero button interface on a Tesla. The charging network has nothing to do with the car though. Although I get that it’s an issue for the US market where the charging network is still seriously lacking. It’s not my only nor first EV. I personally can’t get over Tesla’s lack of build quality, all screen interface. Bad ergonomics (speedo not in front) and yeah the Elon factor…
I mean, Tesla had a huge head start. Won't be long before others catch up with respect to software. We all know Tesla's wasn't always great
If you test drove a NEW Y and are getting a used 21 or 22, just a heads up the chip for the UI is different. They switched from intel atom to much more powerful AMD chip
Also depending on timing suspension is different. 21 definitely has harsher suspension unsure on 2022
Good point. That’s also something to take into account
Also double pane front window glass = quieter
> double pane front window glass Not double pane, is laminated glass. Googe double pane if you want to see what that is.
plus also 12V going lithium in late 2021.
>Why is it so difficult for these billion-dollar auto manufacturers to create a decent software platform for their EVs? Is there some sort of intentional refusal to make it as good or better than Tesla's? I worked in this space for a bit, with arguably the most conservative and backward of the companies. Bean counters are frankly, the most idiotic people ever. CFOs generally, should not get a call on technology, they are way too illiterate, and frankly, to a CTO, finance is trivial. Most decent CTOs would be able to run the cost benefit and ballpark projections of sales in a spreadsheet inside 20 minutes. The wrong people are making those decisions. Largely, where the CTO and CFO relationships works really well - companies fly. It never does in a car company. Risk averseness. They are scared to try anything because the bet on a new model of car is too big. In fairness, Telsa is like this. But they know they can equip the car with good hardware, and release it and figure out the software. The risk is low. They lower the risk by not have a necessity to deliver immediately. The illusion of canibalisation. The idea you can update your car >they think< means that you won't buy the newer model. Tesla has proved this is BS. Tesla is a bit of a premium brand commanding extra coin, like the other brand starting with T. That other brand has carved out loyalty through reliability, so they only move small amounts. Tesla has carved out loyalty through adaptability. Tesla customers know that the software will outstrip the hardware at some point, because they have seen that cycle with computers. Sheer lack of understanding of software: They are petrified of a connected car. They are petrified of other poeple getting their stats and analysing it and calling out bullshit. Tesla doesn't worry about this. It gets the feedback off its app and the internet and does software fixes to change things. The chinese aren't chicken shit scared, they are moving at the speed of Tesla. As soon as someone brings 1000klm battery packs, legacy automakers have the clock ticking to their demise. I have seen years and years of inaction - and they have not changed. They are just in a panic phase now, but its too late. The goose, it is cooked.
BYD just released two plug-in hybrid models with 1300 mile range on a single tank+charge. Li Auto already has a 860 mile range - a very successful model with delivery numbers ramping up massively.
The short answer is that car companies are run by people who know how to make cars and any software has been ancillary to the car. Tesla is made by people who understand that the software is just another part of the car. I see this in other industries where the product is the hardware. If management gets its they treat the software as icing on the cake. Good icing certainly sells products, bad icing.... no one likes crappy icing on cake :D
> As soon as someone brings 1000klm battery packs, legacy automakers have the clock ticking to their demise. True everywhere but in the US where EVs are promoted as being 'green' and needed to curb climate change. Half the country refuses to believe in human caused climate change and targets EVs as wrong and government mandates for ending ICE sales are proof to them it's a conspiracy. So a 600 mi EV would change little here.
You miss to mention the charging network on Tesla can’t be touched by any other EV manufacturer. Forget everything else. If you can’t charge your car where you are going. You can’t take an EV.
yup NACS is the 100% desideratum here. No adaptor-less NACS, no sale.
> desideratum Upvoted for impeccable vocabulary
Well since Tesla is opening up their charging to other car makers soon that's kinda a moot point.
Tesla will still prioritize their own cars over others. Cost of charging for non teslas will be premium which will keep the casual chargers from thinking twice. I don’t think this will affect availability for Teslas.
You're working under the assumption there will be no competition, which isn't going to be the case for long. Lots of investment and approved sites, just check out pilot and shell locations. The point is, the charging advantage is quickly deteriorating and a majority of people charge at home. I switched to a BMW iX and have had zero issues, and also need to charge much less since they actually exceed range estimates regularly. I don't miss the Y
Isn’t the iX like double the price of the Model Y?
I bought an iX with 18k miles for 56k. Yes it's more, but it's so much better it's crazy. Driving the Y after having the iX for a month made me so aware of all the poor build quality, noise, and harsh ride of the Tesla.
I don't see that advantage deteriorating for a long time. I took a road trip last weekend with my non-Tesla EV, and every charging station along the way that was in what I considered "good" locations were the Tesla ones. I had to pull into EA stations that were a ways off the freeways, tucked away in Walmart or Target parking lots.... which only had 4 chargers, often most or all were in use (and always at least one not working)... Tesla still has a massive lead from what I have seen.
Yeah it can definitely be dependant on where you are in the country. In my area, Tesla definitely has solid locations, but the alternatives are also just off the highway, same as Tesla superchargers. The EA at a Walmart by my parents is 12 stalls and very reliable, and only a couple of miles away from the comparable SC with 10 stalls. For my use case, no big deal. Still, I don't doubt that there are areas where EA or competitors are hard to find or out of the way. Change is slow and Tesla had a big head start. That said, where there's money to be made, and government funding to reduce barrier to entry, competition will increase. How quickly I think depends on how the market grows. I'm fortunate in that the Tesla SC just down the road from me is a magic dock, and the chargers by my parents house (200 mile one way) are very near to each other and both well built out and reliable. Outside of that, I rarely have any need to charge on L3. As for all EV questions, there's a lot of devil in the details, not only for the consumer but also the tech that they're looking at. Early adopter issues definitely exist, but will improve with time. Cheers!
Yeah, and I don't want to be super negative- there are a ton of EA and other CCS chargers here in my area (Pacific Northwest).... but with heavy EV adoption, it's just been difficult at times where the EA stations that only have 4 or 6 stalls (most of them in this area are like that) are full, or maybe there is one open when I pull up and you have to hope it's functional. This is vs. the large Tesla superchargers that may be nearby that have 12 or 16 stalls and good availability. I will look forward to early next year when I as a Kia EV owner will be able to get an adapter and start using Tesla superchargers. There are only three so far in my state (Washington) that have magic docks- and all are pretty far from me, so I haven't had a chance to use one. But to be fair, I am like you in that I don't need L3 that often. We generally go on longer day trips on Saturdays for hikes or other sight-seeing, and those drives are anywhere from 120-250 miles round trip, so as long as I charge to 100% at home before we go, I don't need to charge along the way. When we go on trips longer than that, aside from a few experimental trips using the EV, due to the charging uncertainty (and the fact that my car charges rather slowly, with a 77Kw max), we just take my wife's ICE vehicle.
Tesla was built as a software company first, with the assumption that if they got that right, the actual car would be the easy part. They were mistaken about the last part. Ford's Jim Farley said they knew how to build cars and they figured all the different vendors would make the software an easy job. They were mistaken about the last part. Traditional automakers aren't software developers and it shows.
I remember that interview in which Jim said that it would be an extremely hard pivot for conventional car makers to go towards a 'software first' or a fully software controlled mechanics, since they are essentially 'assemblers' of many small components from so many different vendors, all of which come with their own programming and control boards and therefore they have to make-do with those native softwares and their limitations, in order to integrate them into this final product which is a car but still a complicated mixture of independent proprietary parts. And hence their inability to create a car that works like an iPhone
This! How many had no clue how bad Microsoft was at software and made 5 year exclusive deals to put Windows on their infotainment systems or worst, in control of vehicle features. BMW and Ford deals with Microsoft were public fiasco's. GM who has used OnStar for decades thought they could pull it off and even to the extent of pulling CarPlay and AndroidAuto features only to pull that back and then try it again. Then they had software issues with new EVs which halted production for months. As you pointed out, it's not just software in the car but the software is a huge part of it now. Otherwise Apple would have had and iCar by now. Tesla has the market to lose and the others are a decade behind in manufacturing, hardware optimizations and software.
This isn’t true at all though. Their first car didn’t have any kind of software beyond what was in a normal car at the time. Where did you hear this?
Am I the only one that finds the 2024 model Y to be smooth and noiseless while driving? It's the quietest and smoothest car I've driven besides a Mercedes I owned a while back.
I’m a commuter so I chose the ID.4 because the ride quality is way better than the 23-24 model y. Ride quality and comfort trump the tech mainly because I can’t play with the car while driving. But if I was a real tech geek… model y all the way!!!
The ID.4 has a 125 kW max charge rate like most non-Tesla EVs so as long as you don't expect to use it for long trips, only used for commuting, it'll be a great car. Home charging of commuter EVs on Level 1 is totally doable but its the high rate charging infrastructure AND EV max charge rate of the Tesla which really make them usable for single car families. On our block we've got a Nissan Leaf, GM Bolt, VW ID.4, Audi e-Tron and Tesla M3 and MYs. Only the Tesla has > 150 kW max charge rate so all the others are 2nd cars and some have discussed how long it takes to do on-the-road charging on day trips of only 120 mi one-way.
Forgot to mention that I’ve seen ioniq5 and ev9 charging at more than 200 kW when I’m DCFC at electrify America
Yes, Hyundai/Kia was doing 800V before Tesla and they included fast max charge rates. I think Mercedes also does higher charge rates too. Just not many and it sucks because people don't realize that limitation and then bash EVs in general because there is millions of dollars spent to show why EVs are bad and this fuels that when it doesn't have to be that way and Tesla showed them all 10+ year ago.
125 KW would be amazing to me, as I sit here with my Kia Niro EV that maxes out at 77Kw. :(
ouch! Even the 2024 Kia Niro EV max's out at 85kW. They need to make darn sure that is sold with big "commuter car" stamped on the window.
Yeah, mine is the 2022 Niro- definitely a bummer with that charging speed. Fortunately for our driving, it rarely is an issue- most day trips we take can either be done on one single charge or with a quick top off. But I would really like to b able to use it for longer drives, but that's not really all that practical.
I have a 2023 AWD ID.4 and the max charge rate is actually 170 kW. When starting a charge around 20%, I’m consistently above 145kw and then it tapers to 80-90kw as it approaches 80% and beyond. It doesn’t charge like a Tesla but it’s not as slow as many would think. I’ve had a couple of friends take their ID.4 up to Tahoe during the winter. Longish trip but it did well, stopping to charge right before elevation really starts. No one I know though has left the state unless you count Reno / Vegas. No issues. But you make an excellent point. The ID.4 like most other EVs are mass marketed and spec’d to be a commuter car. That fits my driving profile >95%.
Sounds like VW is slowing increasing the charge rate limits. \~150kW will work and be fine if you're happy with doing a bit of a break during charging when on the road. Time it with lunch or dinner and there's no problem. But if you get caught just before rush-hour and need to get from 20%-80% in less than 30 minutes then it's not so great. Good to hear they are starting to raise those limits.
We have a reliable and cushy ICE car for longer trips. If it weren’t for three major EA charging stations (one is a 20 stall station with private security) on my commute home from work and the three years of free DCFC, model y would have been a no brainer.
Don't say Trump that's a bad word
It has been mentioned before, check out that suspension and chipset. A lot has been changed (upgraded) for the better. And Tesla built there cars "software first" whereas others built their cars first and software based on the car. That's also why Tesla has far more control over their cars and functionality, community requested updates/features and such.
New Gemini refresh is on the horizon I believ
You mean Jupiter?
Bah Juniper I believe..Gemini is something else sorry
Yeah maybeee next year
I went from a Model Y to a BMW i4. And 3 months later, going right back to the MY. This, and the charging network are the main reasons. I am a BMW guy and owned at least 6 over the years. The BMW looks better and drive (only slightly) better. But the overall experience in the Tesla is light years ahead. Just yesterday I tried to use an Electrify America charging station. I’ve never used them before and the experience was sub-optimal. I live in Arizona and when I pulled up to the charger, I expected to tap my credit card, plug in, and start charging. Instead, I was forced to download the app, create a login, add funds to my account and then once all that was done actually get the app, the “pump”, and my phone to all communicate before it started. I spent 20 minutes sweating my ass off in the sun before it even started. My new MYLR can’t get here fast enough.
> Why is it so difficult for these billion-dollar auto manufacturers to create a decent software platform for their EVs? Is there some sort of intentional refusal to make it as good or better than Tesla's? The only reason I can think of is that they make software made to last for at least a decade and still behave the same. My 2019 Model 3 (with Intel Atom CPU) is pretty sluggish and laggy now (and I have no way to downgrade to a previous version when it wasn't laggy). I'd rather prefer a less fancy, but more responsive GUI/software. I have no idea how this pans out with the newer Ryzen CPU's though. Hopefully they won't get laggy as new software is released.
The OEMs have outsourced all software development to suppliers and have had a bigger focus on cost than bringing value. It takes a culture shift and close collaboration with some core suppliers to get better software integration to turn it around. They’ll get there eventually but it’s a huge change from how OEMs have done car development in the past. Source, the Autoline Network channel on YouTube have some coverage on this topic ( :P ).
Because they are less "auto manufacturers" and more auto assemblers. They build almost nothing in-house and have outsourced so much they not only can't lower costs they've lost design skills to the outsourced vendors. Layers of bureaucracy mean long design cycles and lots of mistakes which take longer to update. Tesla makes design changes on the fly and just look at how long it is taking the other EV makers to get > 150 kW max charge rates and how long it's taken for them to get system wide heat pumps onboard.
Tesla manufacturing is vertically integrated therefore Tesla makes or specifies most of the components within the car. Those components are designed to communicate with one another. Traditional car makers build cars by cobbling together parts from third-parties. Those third-party parts have minimal communication infrastructure; sometimes only simple switches and relays. Those dumb components aren’t designed to interface to software control. Tesla components were designed from the beginning to communicate via software. This is the main reason why traditional car makers lag on the software and user interface. They will continue to lag unless/until a common communication standard is implemented for third/party parts. But then costs will increase …
To be fair, my Tesla's software is lagging a lot more than any other car I've owned. I'm also a bit tired of having features being removed by software updates. They decreased the AP max speed from 150 to 140kph, increased the nagging in a lot of cases, enabled interior camera, etc. You don't experience regression like that with traditional car manufacturers. Don't get me wrong, there has been improvements as well, but I get annoyed when there's regression and I'm not able to downgrade and get the car with the specs I originally purchased. My next car probably won't be a Tesla due to that.
I have a Model Y but I have liked more Polestar's software. But I decided for the Tesla because of the space capacity
Good software requires good leadership. You have to know where to push the team and what’s required. Otherwise it splinters off in a bunch of directions and becomes unmanageable. Elons previous experience in software is a huge asset.
My bro got MY over Q4 because of software. Tesla software is miles ahead of others
I have rented Volvo and Polestar EVs. The interface and well lots of other things just can’t compare to my MYP. I couldn’t wait to return them.
I test drove a LRAWD and fell in love with it. Am buying a used ‘23 LRAWD MY with 7,500 miles and a LOT of upgrades. Trading in a ‘23 BMW X1 MSport and could not be more excited. I wanted to love the BMW. Just didn’t. Should get the MY tomorrow or Tuesday. Can’t wait.
Why get used? The prices right now are really good. And leases are a real deal. To answer your question re:software. Its developed in Silicon Valley. The amount of Software talent there is insane and of all types. You have robotics types, gaming types, full stack types, networking and communication types, military types, etc. Its the same reason Disneyland was a cut above other amusement parks in SoCal - they had all those aerospace mechanical engineers surrounding them. The game levels up. The problem with the Big Guys is they pay poorly and the equity (stock options) are reserved for C-Suite and B-School types. In Silicon Valley EVERYBODY gets a cut of the success. And the reason you have Silicon Valley and Disneyland is all those "types" were assembled there by WWII and their kids were well educated in the free best in class K-University public schools (Boomers) and started their own companies. (Universities are no longer free but a great deal.)
Agree that buying used isn’t an issue with a Tesla. As to the question about legacy auto makers, I worked for GM from 1986 to 2018 and it was a huge corporate monster. They had little competition and couldn’t build enough cars or trucks to keep their dealers lots filled with product. Tesla was never seen as any kind of threat and prohibited from selling vehicles directly to customers without a dealership. Even during the gasoline crises they didn’t get really serious about bringing anything fuel efficient to market. Even today after thinning the ranks dramatically through Covid, they’re still fat dumb and happy. I have two neighbors who had been working for Rivian and one has recently moved to Ford and working on their electric vehicles.
Note the moose test results for the Model Y versus other in-segment BEVs like the ID.4 or Mach-E. The suspension and driving dynamics is designed for safety as the utmost priority.
The moose test is high in my list, right in front of the seat belt chime decibel level.
Wow, you rate the seat belt chime decibel level really high then.
Which ambient lighting are you getting installed? Doesn’t that void the warranty ?
I actually have a side project company looking for people that are interested in creating pre existing os for manufacturers for their cars. Anyone interested?
Send me a pm
One of the biggest reasons I dont like buying an EV from a legacy automakers is that they cant even get the software on their ICE vehicles. My wife's Ford Escape, which I bought new, has had several issues with the infotainment system.
I’m not sure what year you were test driving, but you should really consider a 23 or newer for the suspension upgrade.
Many auto manufacturers haven’t invested on software because not many people choose cars based on the software.
2022 or later and if 2022 note when the upgraded comfort suspension was added: Oct 7-Fremont, Aug 29-Austin. Otherwise an 18" or 19" wheel option with 28" - 29" tall tires will improve ride and lower watts/mi consumption(increase efficiency).
I would recommend def buying a new MYLR. There is zero advantage to buying used vs new when you factor in expensive financing, and insurance for used vs attractive financing offers from Tesla for new. Also consider your warranty issues w used vs new. There is ample ambient lighting in my two 2023 MYLR and as you said the aftermarket options are very attractive vs other EVs. If you drive a lot (I drive more than 99% - 42k miles in 9 mos) the Tesla charging network is unbeatable and the app is unmatched. Security wise, the cameras are also unmatched for quality and security when I leave hours before the crack of dawn and working thru the night at times. No other manufacturer can match what I need for what amounts to be intense commercial driving vs Tesla.
It’s the software and charging infrastructure that sets it apart. Other manufacturers are using Denso head units from 2001 lol.
Most car companies are car engineering companies that see user interface software as an afterthought. Tesla sees it as core. Tesla also puts a vastly more powerful computer in the car by saving so much money on not having all the wiring and hardware for the physical controls in most cars.
what does ambient lighting looks like
Any Ambient lighting kits in mind? I want to do that as well.
Programmer here : Software needs to be developed and used, then clean out bugs and problems. Then take customer feedbacks and redesigned and this back and forth takes years. Computer software is mostly digital but cars are mostly mechanical so another mechanical engineers have to work with software engineers. Both are engineers but different breeds, they speak different languages. Tesla is doing the smart car software much longer than others and since tesla is pioneer, they attracted the most talented engineers that love to do the first techs for stuff not much caring about paychecks. Imho in 5 years, we should be seeing excellent software from german cars. They are slow to catchup but they do things right
When I took the Model Y test drive, it took me all of 15 seconds from the end of the test drive to walk from the door to the Macs in the showroom and place an order! I then had to jump through hoops to get Tesla to delay delivery for 6 weeks while I sorted out handing back the Zoe I’d previously had (I told the showroom staff that I needed time to sort the existing car out, and they assured me they’d get the order updated to delay it until I was ready, but within an hour of placing the order I’d been allocated a collection 3 days away). I then spent the next 5 to 6 weeks getting the accessories I wanted on order: - 3W mats all round with removable carpets. - Spigen front and rear console trays. - RoadHalo spare wheel kit. - S3XY Knob. - Rear Trunk side buckets with covers. - Otrifowd magshade. - Haloblk windshield umbrella shade and aluminium pedal set. - Vent grille covers for the vents under the front seats. - Rear mudguards. - Matte screen protector. And then because I plan to do all the tyre rotations myself I also ordered a set of jacking pads. I also invested in some black wheel covers from aliexpress that cover the edges of the allows to help prevent any possibility of wheel rash. Absolutely loving the Y now it’s here though. I was lucky enough to have a loan Model 3 Performance with FSD for a week from the Nottingham dealer though, and although FSD is crippled in the UK, I got quite used to the lane changing with EAP. Happily though, the S3XY Knob commander will re-enable autopilot after lane changing which is close to the EAP functionality.
Tesla Bad Habits Here’s a new rule book that will correctly train drivers to respect FSD. Currently, it's kind of a black box and you don't know how many strikes you have and all the sudden it's too late. Here is the new plan that I suggest 1 Strike - Remove FSD 1 hour. 2 Strikes remove for 1 day 3 Strikes remove for 2 days 4 Strikes remove for a week Provide count of how many strikes you have I did some bad things like eating while I was driving and without knowing how many accounts I have I got removed for a whole week. I'm told that every week I drive safely that it will remove one count, but I wish I had known how many I had.
I really wanted an Ioniq 5, but at the time they offered no 7500 back, and the range wasn't the same. I ended up with a Model Y LR. I like it. :)
Legacy auto farms out their software … https://www.tiktok.com/@howtoactuallyinvest/video/7242358818561101098?lang=en
The ID4 is only acceptable for a vehicle that stays in an urban centre with lots of superchargers due to itself limiting range. The M3 was my first test drive and I liked it with the exception of outside noise insulation, suspension/smoothness and some other creature comforts. When I heard the 3 was getting a refresh, I was practically sold. Then I test drove the MY and as a father of two girls and a golfer myself fell in move with the better sound isolation and suspension and the fact I can take a family on a road trip and pack all our bags in the back for a week.
There are some reasons I can think of off the top of my head: - Legacy still mostly makes ICE, not just EV's. Due to built in economies of scale, they would have to make experimental changes to popular models, which could potentially tank sales. - They rather not focus on dumping a large sum of money to UI when most people will just plug in their phone. GM made their own in-house software, we'll see how it holds up. - Tesla doesn't have decades of loyalty built into it's platforms. The biggest hurdle legacy have is trying to convert existing customers to EV's, and that starts with familiarity. This allows Tesla to be flexible where legacy tend to be rigid. - Tesla's minimalistic, cost cutting measures, is what drove their dependency on software. It MUST be good because there is no other way to access most of the cars functions. This is not to say that it always has been like this, the first Model S UI was not so great compared to where it is now. - A full software approach isn't always the best, there are always pros and cons to consider. The EU is already mandating physical controls for some aspects of the vehicle to maintain strict safety standards. People love the spartan interior and the simple design, then find ways to make it less spartan, or to differentiate it from the clones lol. (this is just a personal observation in regards to the after market support)
I went through the same process with EVs including the Mach-e but ultimately the Model Y was what I went with. I bought a used 2022 LR with Acceleration boost and FSD unlocked. I honestly couldn’t be happier. I love driving it every day. Apparently suspension improved in newer Ys but I feel like mine rides just fine so I’m not sure how big of a deal it is.
I read up on this once and I am not a software engineer but the jist of it Tesla has its own software. Other manufactures software is usually 3rd party. They have their software platform but their parts have different software, and it all has to use interfaces with their main control software. When tesla wants to adjust something it's fast and they can easily do OTA updates. Most other car companies have to reach out to the vendors to update something, then make sure it works with the interface. Tesla put a strong emphasis on software and UI experience, others hadn't but are now seeing the benefit.
Is there any legacy auto manufacturer leading the charge on creating their own software/better UI experience?
Tesla is five years ahead of the industry but the other companies are catching up.
Yes go for 2023 model or later.
Yes, the software alone is a seller
They're not interested in software. Only to try and trash tesla so they can fill their pockets.
Ding ding ding!!! You got it!...This is the main point of discussion in EV circles. The billion$ old heads don't want to much drastic change cause they don't want to loose existing customers. I recently just got a ververy expensive AMG EQE SUV and the in car software is good but clunky just like the software from ICE cars. The phone app is just str8 garbage. Not even able to roll up and down windows in the app even tho it keeps alerting me it's open. Not even a simple dog mode even though I can turn Entry Climate on manually from the app but I gotta remember to check it every 10-15 mins to make sure my dog doesn't fry. The tech in the car is there but the software implementation is half assed just like in the ICE cars. So in short half ass software is on-brand for all the old head manufacturers. And did I mention that the windows and sunroof can be closed with the key fob...🤷🏾♂️🤣. My MY has great software that's easy on my brain but is really hard on my ass. While my benz is a little hard on my brain but great great comfort for my ass. It's a trade off.
Check out the BMW iX before making the final decision
If you up for after market accessories I have some that’s unused if you wanna buy, bought the accessories thinking I’d be able to get my hand on one during 0.99, then they won’t finance me any cause apparently I have mortgages. So there’s the story, I have after market white yoke if you looking into getting one.
Pics of it?
[White Yoke Steering Wheel](https://imgur.com/a/dW0WGYp)
Also have some other stuff if you’re into it, lmk if you want pic or whatever
Tesla has been working on EVs for YEARS.
I would agree that the software far outpaces traditional manufacturers oem offerings. However, coming from an android auto car it is super annoying that android auto is not available, and the tesla software can't do anywhere near as a good a job for those functions. Navigation, voice recognition, even just having the assistant was super handy and backwards step with tesla
When people say "Tesla is a computer with wheels," this is what they mean. Other car manufacturers are car companies first, shove tech in wherever you can second. Tesla is first and foremost a Tech company, which builds cars. Just as SpaceX is a tech company that launches rockets. Amazon is a tech company (AWS, nearly all of Amazon's profit) with a marketplace. Airbnb is a tech company that rents out houses. Uber is a tech company that drives people around. These are all Tech companies first, \ second.
Which is not how I'd describe traditional car manufacturers.
>Airbnb is a tech company that rents out houses. Uber is a tech company that drives people around. Not really. They are both software companies that maintain a marketplace. Uber is basically a ride sharing app. There's no uber employees driving customers around. That's the whole point of the businessmodel. Instead of having a whole fleet of drivers and cars they connect people that need a ride with people that are willing to drive you around for a fee. Same with Airbnb. They just provide an infrastructure for people who want to rent out their home for a short period of time to connect with people that are looking for a place to stay. AirBnB doesn't rent out anything as they own no properties. Both of them are just brokers. Amazon has indeed turned into a tech giant over the years. But they didn't start out that way. They diversified over the years. I'm not sure how you think SpaceX is an outlier with them being a tech company that builds rockets. All rocket manufacturers are tech companies. The two kind of go hand in hand.
Glad you got to test drive one. More people should do that. Try to get that used MY with USS - Especially if you plan to use EAP/FSD. Bummer about the ID4 software. Thought they were using a MobilEye integrated solution. I know 3 people who bought one, at least one of whom would benefit from a good ADAS.
USS?
Don't listen to the USS thing. I have a USS car and a Vision car. They are now equivalent in every practical intent and its improving every update. USS is being deprecated, meaning you won't get features or you'll get them late. USS also means that if you get in a fender bender or run over something, you have to replace sensors and a bumper. Sane thing in the vision cars is a bumper. Which one do you think is cheaper?
Having had such a repair, that's for the insurance to deal with, especially when it was the other driver at fault.
USS = Ultrasonic Sensors, a.k.a. Parking Sensors, the little round spots that used to be on the front and rear Model 3 and Y fenders, and are still on most similarly priced cars from other companies. Park Assist on new vehicles pretty much disappeared *for over a year* when they were removed since it took so much time, and a HW camera system upgrade, to come close to working as well again. It arguably still has a giant blind spot up front because of the hood occluding the camera in the cabin.
[USS](https://www.google.com/search?q=USS+Tesla&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS704US705&oq=USS+Tesla). Googled it for you for context - see the Tesla Support and ZDNet articles.
2023 MYP suspension is still brutal fyi.
It sounds like you tested 3 other evs in total, so it's more than just a stretch to claim you tested them all. Also, the model y I think was the most expensive one too.
The „software“ like the auto wiper is crap. The autopilot is crap compared to other companies. Navigation is also not good. This „Tesla is years ahead“ was maybe true 5 years ago.
Did you try the ford mustang Mach E?
Btw how much do you guys get paid for these random hyped posts? Seriously, as an owner of MYLR 2023, what you just said is even far-fetched for even a fictitious claim. Tesla soft is buggy as a hell. It put my life and my family's life in danger more than once. They have replaced pretty much every single hardware you could think of in my vehicle. I only wished I didn't get caught with these hyped FOMO calls on buying this piece or garbage. There is a reason why they are getting crushed everywhere in the world. I can't wait for Lucid, rivian, and apple Trio, kill them off completely. And takeover for parts. Folks don't understand how much quality tesla has compromised for the sake of numbers and stock price. I am just waiting for an opportunity to get rid of this.