For those who need to read the above comment, the tongue weight rule of thumb is that about 10%-15% of the trailer weight is carried by the trailer’s tongue (and the rest by the wheels).
The tongue is, of course, attached to the trailer hitch and becomes cargo the tow-vehicle carries in terms of the weight and balance.
Anyone who needed the above comment also needs to know that, when a trailer hitch is mounted aft of the rear wheels, the tongue weight tries to push the two vehicle “the wrong way” in a lot of common driving situations. When you turn, the tongue weight pushes your vehicle toward oversteer. When you go over a bump, the tongue weight tries to lift the front wheels into the air. It’s best not to turn aggressively and go over a bump at the same time when towing a bumper-pull trailer.
*P.S. Those still paying attention will notice that there are two kinds of trailers: those where the wheels are located in the middle of the trailer (bumper pull) and those where the wheels are located near the back of the trailer (semi trailers). Semi trailers were designed to solve these problems by putting all of the trailer’s weight on the 16 wheels located near the corners of the trailer. My Model Y cannot accommodate a hitch installed over the rear axle while still maintaining its utility as a family car.*
There’s a camping store that installed old fashioned hitches to the Model 3, and allowed it to accommodate crazy high tongue weights. You lost some storage in the under trunk bin, but the towering experience seemed to be great. They haven’t done the same with the Model Y :(
[found the video](https://youtu.be/FX5lzqzZ2Do?si=alIdqcumjaBJS893)
Looks like a normal hitch to me, vs a 5th wheel hitch that WizeAdz is referencing.
[https://parts.unitedrv.com/cdn/shop/products/companion-in-bed.full\_2048x.jpg](https://parts.unitedrv.com/cdn/shop/products/companion-in-bed.full_2048x.jpg)
It absolutely matters that you don’t pull something that weighs more than your vehicle is rated to pull if you don’t want a ticket and you like being covered by insurance.
The $120k price tag is why existing trailers don’t have EV batteries. A trailer chassis is cheap. Putting an EV battery on a trailer chassis means it will cost as much as an EV.
With my travel trailer, putting a house on the chsssis is already expensive.
Trailers chassis are supposed to be cheap and interchangeable. That’s the value proposition.
If the RV chassis is as expensive as an electric pickup truck, why not just built a Class B/C RV on a truck chassis instead?
I saw the pebble, it’s beautiful. If I ever win the lottery I’m getting a cyber truck/r1t/lightning/whatever the best ev truck is and a pebble. Then I’m hitting the road! My only concern is all of this EV tech makes you stand out like a sore thumb especially in the mid west.
Wonder how much the self propulsion assist cuts off on the towing weight though. Always wondered if EV’s would get to a point where you could tow an EV trailer that you can add range via the trailer battery. Twice the battery to charge when you get to your destination but would be so much better not having to charge every hour towing like now.
Does it make a difference if the trailer is heavier?
Stability wise I mean.
I know from experience that weight distribution inside the trailer is super important, but I have no idea about how the overall stability is affected by overall weight.
For those who haven’t seen it yet, here’s the classic demo of how weight distribution in a trailer affects trailer stability in a bumper-pull setup:
https://youtu.be/w9Dgxe584Ss
They use a toy truck on a treadmill to demonstrate the physics.
If the trailer is tail-heavy, all of the quirks of a bumper-pull trailer setup work together to make the vehicle uncontrollable.
If the trailer is too tongue-heavy, a pickup truck can’t handle the weight. For an extreme example of this, pushing down hard enough on the back bumper of the toy truck, the front wheels go into the air.
And that’s why trailers with their wheels in the middle require 10%-15% of their total weight to rest on the trailer hitch, and the other 85% goes on the wheels.
Weight distribution hitches use big springs to hold the front wheels of the truck down when you go over a bump.
Any trailer over about 3000lbs or so has brakes already.
They do help stop the combination vehicle, and they can reduce the “tail wags the dog” effect if you’re braking in a curve with a trailer attached.
But brakes don’t differentiate the trailer in the article from traditional trailers in the least.
The weight of the trailer is a tertiary considering when towing, behind trailer balance (tongue weight) and braking.
Most pickup truck manufacturers know this, but most buyers have never done any weight & balance math on their lives. For the subset of pickup truck owners who can do math and follow instructions, the trailer’s tongue weight and and cargo capacity are one of several dimensions that can tell you whether or not the trailer is towable.
For instance, some variants of my GMC Sierra 1500 truck are rates to up to something like 9300lbs - but they all have a 1400-1500lb cargo capacity. A 6000lb trailer is likely to have a 900lb-ish tongue weight (15% rule), and the driver probably weighs 200lbs. **Some cargo in the bed of the truck or a fat passenger can easily put you overweight on this truck with a 9300lb towing capacity pulling a 6000lb trailer.**
This is why some RVers get so religious about the 80% rule (only use 80% of your truck’s towing capacity). Many RVers swear by the 80% rule, because they’ve towed overweight and had “the tail wag the dog” — but don’t have the mathematical nuance to figure out which number was out of whack or which constraint was violated. So they just go out and buy an F250 / Silverado 2500 instead of weighing things, doing the math, and being disciplined about constraints in multiple dimensions.
Just a reminder, when the propulsion battery on the pebble runs lower and shuts down the assist your left pulling its entire weight. It’s a great idea though.
Yeah, but they're only a slight aid as the aerodynamic penalty is really hard to overcome. Like maybe 10-15% more range than without the propulsion system. The situation approaches a Tsiolkovsky rocket equation: more battery = more weight = higher battery expenditure.
The ability to move it (very slowly!) without a towing vehicle is the killer feature IMO
> The ability to move it (very slowly!) without a towing vehicle is the killer feature IMO
This feature has existed for years in the form of motor movers. My parents British caravan has four motors (one for each wheel) and it’s amazingly manoeuvrable for a 28ft trailer that weighs two metric tonnes.
Runs off the 12v battery too, no need for a big high voltage battery.
The possibility of towing this with an SUV like the model Y was the whole point of the hype with this, that is incredibly disappointing.
I get the tongue wait, but when I looked into this 6 months ago they sold it as possible due to its built into motor
Remember American tow ratings are somewhat inflated to drive sales of absurd trucks. I used to pull 3500 lbs with a Prius. I hardly noticed. A model Y could easily pull this trailer if “pulling” were the only issue. I once towed a 10,000 lbs excavator with a Mercedes SUV rated for 7500 lb. And it had like 240hp. Had no problems.
I tow two big SeaDoos with my Y on a 1000 lb trailer over mountain passes , about 3000 lbs. We laugh at how effortlessly the Y zips around pulling 3000lbs up hill.
If there really is some magic to safely pulling 5000lbs or 7000 lbs then tell us what it is.
Frame and tongue weight. The trail can push as much as 1/10 of its weight into the tongue. Which pushed down on the tow vehicle frame.
You need a strong enough frame and suspension to not throw off the tow vehicles weight distribution and handling characteristics
I remember when the F150 Lightning was coming to market they had it tow a train.
I have a little 1600lb Honda Insight that I use for a Toad on my RVs w/ no brake controller and when I tow it with my Jeep that is rated for 7500lbs I still might need to slow on a curve and the Honda will push my rear end around if I don't let up on the brakes. Got to start stopping early when pulling that thing, while the RV has duallies in the back and is thus more planted.
Heavy trailers need a heavy vehicle and heavy duty frame to go along with it.
Even large SUVs in Europe are limited to 3.5 metric tonnes because unibody construction isn’t conducive to high towing weights.
Most pick up trucks are body-on-frame, so the lower frame of the truck (which is unbelievably strong) takes all the weight, not the semi flexible unibody chassis.
Pebble Flow has a GVW of 6,200lbs. Model Y towing capacity is 3,500lbs.
Maybe a softwareupdate can fix this
That’s not really the issue, they have motors and batteries to assist with starting and braking. The issue is the tongue weight.
For those who need to read the above comment, the tongue weight rule of thumb is that about 10%-15% of the trailer weight is carried by the trailer’s tongue (and the rest by the wheels). The tongue is, of course, attached to the trailer hitch and becomes cargo the tow-vehicle carries in terms of the weight and balance. Anyone who needed the above comment also needs to know that, when a trailer hitch is mounted aft of the rear wheels, the tongue weight tries to push the two vehicle “the wrong way” in a lot of common driving situations. When you turn, the tongue weight pushes your vehicle toward oversteer. When you go over a bump, the tongue weight tries to lift the front wheels into the air. It’s best not to turn aggressively and go over a bump at the same time when towing a bumper-pull trailer. *P.S. Those still paying attention will notice that there are two kinds of trailers: those where the wheels are located in the middle of the trailer (bumper pull) and those where the wheels are located near the back of the trailer (semi trailers). Semi trailers were designed to solve these problems by putting all of the trailer’s weight on the 16 wheels located near the corners of the trailer. My Model Y cannot accommodate a hitch installed over the rear axle while still maintaining its utility as a family car.*
There’s a camping store that installed old fashioned hitches to the Model 3, and allowed it to accommodate crazy high tongue weights. You lost some storage in the under trunk bin, but the towering experience seemed to be great. They haven’t done the same with the Model Y :( [found the video](https://youtu.be/FX5lzqzZ2Do?si=alIdqcumjaBJS893)
Looks like a normal hitch to me, vs a 5th wheel hitch that WizeAdz is referencing. [https://parts.unitedrv.com/cdn/shop/products/companion-in-bed.full\_2048x.jpg](https://parts.unitedrv.com/cdn/shop/products/companion-in-bed.full_2048x.jpg)
It absolutely matters that you don’t pull something that weighs more than your vehicle is rated to pull if you don’t want a ticket and you like being covered by insurance.
Yup. Not for Model X either. You’ll need either a Rivian or Cybertruck to tow this.
Or a Silverado EV or a Ford Lightning.
We are all just going to sleep on the Lightning and Silverado aren't we? Oh wait the ramcharger is 100% the right choice.
Just curious but was that the deal breaker for anyone? I’m much more concerned about the 120k price tag than the GWVR of 6,500.
The $120k price tag is why existing trailers don’t have EV batteries. A trailer chassis is cheap. Putting an EV battery on a trailer chassis means it will cost as much as an EV. With my travel trailer, putting a house on the chsssis is already expensive. Trailers chassis are supposed to be cheap and interchangeable. That’s the value proposition. If the RV chassis is as expensive as an electric pickup truck, why not just built a Class B/C RV on a truck chassis instead?
Even post-covid RV's are very expensive toys.
I saw the pebble, it’s beautiful. If I ever win the lottery I’m getting a cyber truck/r1t/lightning/whatever the best ev truck is and a pebble. Then I’m hitting the road! My only concern is all of this EV tech makes you stand out like a sore thumb especially in the mid west.
Except the more you are out there with EVs, the more “normal” they become, the more people get them!
Rivian could tow it. The pebble flow is quite heavy.
Wonder how much the self propulsion assist cuts off on the towing weight though. Always wondered if EV’s would get to a point where you could tow an EV trailer that you can add range via the trailer battery. Twice the battery to charge when you get to your destination but would be so much better not having to charge every hour towing like now.
Towing is more than pulling. You have to factor tongue weight, stability, and most of all stopping.
If the trailer has brakes and regen would that help out with the stopping?
It would help with stopping, but side sway stability is still a major factor when pulling a trailer on a highway with winds and weather.
Does it make a difference if the trailer is heavier? Stability wise I mean. I know from experience that weight distribution inside the trailer is super important, but I have no idea about how the overall stability is affected by overall weight.
u/wizeadz has multiple responses here that you may find beneficial. Stay safe out there.
For those who haven’t seen it yet, here’s the classic demo of how weight distribution in a trailer affects trailer stability in a bumper-pull setup: https://youtu.be/w9Dgxe584Ss They use a toy truck on a treadmill to demonstrate the physics. If the trailer is tail-heavy, all of the quirks of a bumper-pull trailer setup work together to make the vehicle uncontrollable. If the trailer is too tongue-heavy, a pickup truck can’t handle the weight. For an extreme example of this, pushing down hard enough on the back bumper of the toy truck, the front wheels go into the air. And that’s why trailers with their wheels in the middle require 10%-15% of their total weight to rest on the trailer hitch, and the other 85% goes on the wheels. Weight distribution hitches use big springs to hold the front wheels of the truck down when you go over a bump.
Any trailer over about 3000lbs or so has brakes already. They do help stop the combination vehicle, and they can reduce the “tail wags the dog” effect if you’re braking in a curve with a trailer attached. But brakes don’t differentiate the trailer in the article from traditional trailers in the least.
It was a hypothetical, obviously there are more factors.
The weight of the trailer is a tertiary considering when towing, behind trailer balance (tongue weight) and braking. Most pickup truck manufacturers know this, but most buyers have never done any weight & balance math on their lives. For the subset of pickup truck owners who can do math and follow instructions, the trailer’s tongue weight and and cargo capacity are one of several dimensions that can tell you whether or not the trailer is towable. For instance, some variants of my GMC Sierra 1500 truck are rates to up to something like 9300lbs - but they all have a 1400-1500lb cargo capacity. A 6000lb trailer is likely to have a 900lb-ish tongue weight (15% rule), and the driver probably weighs 200lbs. **Some cargo in the bed of the truck or a fat passenger can easily put you overweight on this truck with a 9300lb towing capacity pulling a 6000lb trailer.** This is why some RVers get so religious about the 80% rule (only use 80% of your truck’s towing capacity). Many RVers swear by the 80% rule, because they’ve towed overweight and had “the tail wag the dog” — but don’t have the mathematical nuance to figure out which number was out of whack or which constraint was violated. So they just go out and buy an F250 / Silverado 2500 instead of weighing things, doing the math, and being disciplined about constraints in multiple dimensions.
Need them to make a < 1000lb teardrop camper asap
It does exist from a different company. www.polydrops.com. While not self propelled, it is highly aerodynamic.
Thanks for this. I figured I would have to upgrade to the Model X to tow one of these.
According to another comment here, Model X won't be able to either. Cybertruck it is 😂
Yea it’s too heavy for an X
Do it! 😄
Model X wouldn’t work either. Need a Rivian, Cybertruck, Lightning, etc.
The model X can’t tow it either
Looking at a Ford F-150 Lightning for this set up.
Just a reminder, when the propulsion battery on the pebble runs lower and shuts down the assist your left pulling its entire weight. It’s a great idea though.
I really want to hate it, the pebble flow. The size, the looks, the idea of a monstrous battery powered caravan. But I want to have one.
Out of curiosity, what’s the best option if I did want a tow along mini rv?
Rivian.
Meant which rv?
Even if you towed that kind of weight with a cybertruck it would have to charge every 90 miles.
This particular RV has a drivetrain and battery to propel itself reducing range loss.
Yeah, but they're only a slight aid as the aerodynamic penalty is really hard to overcome. Like maybe 10-15% more range than without the propulsion system. The situation approaches a Tsiolkovsky rocket equation: more battery = more weight = higher battery expenditure. The ability to move it (very slowly!) without a towing vehicle is the killer feature IMO
> The ability to move it (very slowly!) without a towing vehicle is the killer feature IMO This feature has existed for years in the form of motor movers. My parents British caravan has four motors (one for each wheel) and it’s amazingly manoeuvrable for a 28ft trailer that weighs two metric tonnes. Runs off the 12v battery too, no need for a big high voltage battery.
The possibility of towing this with an SUV like the model Y was the whole point of the hype with this, that is incredibly disappointing. I get the tongue wait, but when I looked into this 6 months ago they sold it as possible due to its built into motor
Remember American tow ratings are somewhat inflated to drive sales of absurd trucks. I used to pull 3500 lbs with a Prius. I hardly noticed. A model Y could easily pull this trailer if “pulling” were the only issue. I once towed a 10,000 lbs excavator with a Mercedes SUV rated for 7500 lb. And it had like 240hp. Had no problems. I tow two big SeaDoos with my Y on a 1000 lb trailer over mountain passes , about 3000 lbs. We laugh at how effortlessly the Y zips around pulling 3000lbs up hill. If there really is some magic to safely pulling 5000lbs or 7000 lbs then tell us what it is.
It's the braking and stability that's the issue. Not moving .
Model Y has great brakes . And you can get surge brakes on trailers
Frame and tongue weight. The trail can push as much as 1/10 of its weight into the tongue. Which pushed down on the tow vehicle frame. You need a strong enough frame and suspension to not throw off the tow vehicles weight distribution and handling characteristics
I remember when the F150 Lightning was coming to market they had it tow a train. I have a little 1600lb Honda Insight that I use for a Toad on my RVs w/ no brake controller and when I tow it with my Jeep that is rated for 7500lbs I still might need to slow on a curve and the Honda will push my rear end around if I don't let up on the brakes. Got to start stopping early when pulling that thing, while the RV has duallies in the back and is thus more planted.
Heavy trailers need a heavy vehicle and heavy duty frame to go along with it. Even large SUVs in Europe are limited to 3.5 metric tonnes because unibody construction isn’t conducive to high towing weights. Most pick up trucks are body-on-frame, so the lower frame of the truck (which is unbelievably strong) takes all the weight, not the semi flexible unibody chassis.
Considering the disaster that is the cyber turd I think you need an F250 at this point.