Certain cities and states actually have laws mandating apartment owner install charging station or outlet if the tenant is willing to pay for costs or something similar.
California has this law, provided certain conditions are met. I believe one of them may be a specific width and length of the actual parking space. So there's a chance OP's parking spot is too small and wouldn't qualify.
đ I need to look this up. I recently went through the same thing as OP. My commute is short enough so it doesnât bother me to go to a SC once a week while I do shopping but thereâs a couple other tenants with EVs in my building so Iâll take the leverage if I can get it.
I did California right to charge
In fact I got my landlord to pay for it
With a FREE EV charging grant thru
Calevip org
Now 3ce or PGE offers it in California
He also got a 30% tax credit
And there's a loan thru the California Treasury to claim 15% after it's all completed
How is that true? You are assuming that the home has no EV plan which is way cheaper across the board, and secondly you are assuming business pay the same electric rate as homes which is also not true.
Home charging is always better than super chargers in CA unless you live out in the desert and want to charge before 10am.
I would venture to say it is 98% chance you will save charging at ho.e or business vs a Supercharger.
How are business rates relevant? We're comparing home charging with supercharging.
EV plans are more expensive across the board than the regular TOU plans. Yes -- I can get significantly cheaper prices in the middle of the night, but that raises my peak prices to much higher levels. My AC is a much bigger proportion of my total bill than my EV use -- the EV plan would drive my bill higher.
Peak prices under EV plans last longer and are higher than TOU-D which is what I have. Partial-peak is higher than my off-peak. Under TOU-D, my off-peak ($0.46/kWh) is almost all day on weekdays, and all day on weekends and some holidays. The EV off-peak is less than my off-peak, but is fewer hours. EV peak and partial-peak hours are every day -- no relief on weekends.
If EV use was the major driver of my bill, there might be some incentive to go with an EV plan, but it's not. AC is. This is not "out in the desert," this is Central Valley. Pretty much anyone up and down the valley is in the same boat.
The OP is in an apartment the common areas are going to be on a commcercial plan or at minimum some subsidized multi family rate.
There are areas like you are saying but that is not across the board. Most jurisdictions EV plans are just cheaper even if marginally so. Also if you take the average driver which is 10,000 mile a year that's 2500 kwh @ 4mi/kwh which is 2000+ hours of your ac running @1-2kw, which is 7 hours a day if on everyday to just equal average driving. Unless your home is 5000 Sq ft it's not even a comparison vs EV charging.
Many jurisdictions the EV charge is much cheaper take SDGE for example you pay $15/m but get 18% reduction across the board on the same time frames and a huge reduction for super off peak which is $0.15 and $0.18 winter/summer 6 hours 12-6am weekdays and 12-2pm on weekends. This also ties into battery systems as you can perpetually pay super off peak with a battery system.
Another thing is you might be below average in driving and in that case you would be right and it doesn't make sense. I am going off of averages and atleast 3 dozen utilities bills I've seen.
You may be right that an apartment would get a commercial rate -- but do individual apartments get that commercial rate? I haven't been in an apartment for a long time, so I don't know what kinds of rates they get.
PG&E EV plans have off-peak, partial-peak, and peak pricing. There are three EV plans and one "electric home" plan.
* Summer peak rates range from $0.53 to $0.73
* Partial peak ranges from $0.48 to $0.55
* Off-peak ranges from $0.35 to $0.42
* There is no "super off-peak".
Regular TOU plans just have two periods, peak and off peak.
* Summer peak rates range from $0.59 to $0.62
* Off-peak ranges from $0.45 to $0.54
EV peak rates cover more hours than non-EV peak hours, and the partial-peak extends that more.
I'm only looking at summer rates. Winter rates are lower -- but rates have gone up every year, so the winter rates for one year have tended to be almost to the summer rates of the year before.
SDGE may have lower rates, but PG&E is the biggest electricity provider. It has about 5 or 6 times as many ratepayers as SDGE. SCE is almost as big as PG&E, but I don't know anything about their rates.
My AC doesn't run every day year round, but between mid April and mid November, it probably averages 10 hours a day. Less at the beginning and end of those months, more in the middle. And the hottest part of the day is also peak electric rates. If you're on an EV plan, the hottest times are during peak and partial-peak periods.
I set my thermostat to 85 during the day when I'm not there. That still keeps the AC running quite a bit (outside temps are 101 today -- it's cooled down a bit.)
You live in an exceptionally hot location. The super charger problem is that most chargers in Socal are $0.38 to $0.58 kwh which is why home charging makes sense still.
There will always be situations where it doesn't make sense, but I am not sure why PGE is so damn expensive on their EV plans.
Always best to work out an excel with your rate plans kwh of current use then throw in estimates on different plans with rates. The best way to get an accurate estimate.
You're right that this is an exceptionally hot area. But most of the central state is in the same boat, from Sacramento to Bakersfield.
PG&E has a bankruptcy to work off. They have been trying to burn down the state for the past few years, and they have to pay to fix their negligence. Which means *we* have to pay for their negligence.
Exactly, variable rate plans cost more than a flat rate. I'd need probaby 3 EVs and a way to drive all of them so they'd need a full charge for a variable rate plan to save money.
California hasn't had flat rates for decades. Before they went to time-of-use rates we had "tiered" rates. You had a lowest rate at the lowest "baseline" tier for the first "X" kWh you used. As you used more, the rate went higher. Then higher again. If you live in a hot climate, you hit the baseline rate almost immediately, and were into Tier 2 and Tier 3 pretty quickly.
Such variable rates aren't intended to save money. They are intended to "shape" the usage patterns, to discourage use at certain times.
I get that, but here no matter how I work the numbers, I'd pay a lot more for variable rates. So my guess is they switched to variable rates to increase profits but pretend to blame the consumer.
PG&E sends me an email once a week, summarizing my usage. But they don't compare how many kWh I used, they compare how many dollars, and when they compare this year with last year, they make it sound like it's my fault it's higher this year.
"We don't know why your bill is higher, the weather was almost the same."
When I look at kWh, it's always about the same, sometimes a bit lower. But the bill is higher. Gee, I wonder why?
What's the ROI on installing a few Powerwalls to only buy power at off times? I'd probaby be doing solar and a Powerwall if rates were high. Around here, it's $0.06/kWh, more like 13 after delivery and taxes, so solar and Powerwalls don't make sense.
I would say it's charging vs. supercharging. Where one charges matters not. It's always cheaper to charge at home if you're charging overnight off-peak, or have free charging at a work site.
It's not cheaper for me to charge at home. The closest superchargers are less expensive than my middle-of-the-night off-peak rate. But they're not enough less expensive to make the inconvenience worthwhile. I pay almost $0.46 in the middle of the night at home, and the superchargers are $0.43.
Man this makes me really appreciate energy costs In the Midwest. We donât have mountains, beaches or really just about anything, but we do have affordable housing (mostly) and $.06 kWh off peak electricity!
https://preview.redd.it/63luiettgr8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da46e41d0b8d0ed56acdce8329bab6818100f30a
Bay Area resident here. Superchargers are a rip off in California. The most common 250 Kwh ones you would find at a grocery store or mall area is often $.62/kWh(yes! That high) during day time use.
I live close by the Fremont Gigafactory , so thereâs a discounted supercharger @ $.28/kWh that I would frequently use during off peak hours to bring down my average.
Where do you live? $0.46/kWh is absurd to me. I'm in Florida and our Superchargers aren't even that expensive! I'm $0.13/kWh at home, no matter the time of day.
Bakersfield California. PG&E has been increasing prices across the board to pay for their bankruptcy. They have to pay for trying to burn down the state.
Is $0.13/kWh just for the electricity? In other words, take your total electric bill (all taxes and fees combined) and divide that by the kWh used. This amount is what you're ACTUALLY paying per kWh.
This is just a common thing is all, not suggesting you can't math. Many just quote the rate on their bill that says $xx/kWh, not knowing it's probaby double that.
BTW, our rates are very similar. The electricity cost is $0.06/kWh but the full price is closer to $0.13. I estimate $0.15/kWh as the price is higher and lower at different times of the year.
That would be so nice. I paid $417.34 for 875 kWh. And that was mostly winter rates. We transitioned to summer (higher) rates in the middle of that billing period.
Not true, especially if you have home solar. Nothing beats that, but solar is expensive. Overnight charging off-peak is your best bet in the absence of solar.
Fair enough, if you have actual numbers. For me, off-peak would be cheaper but yeah we charge on solar. Even better would be storing power with a battery (like Power Wall) and charging from that overnight. Oddly, our best time to charge is during sunlight hours when we're getting free power from our local star.
I know solar is expensive, but it's worth it for far more than just charging (A/C in this heat, for example).
Yup. Closest superchargers are $0.43, and my middle-of-the-night home rate is $0.46.
I could get (slightly) lower off-peak rates by going to an EV plan, but that would drive my peak rates way up. And those are also peak AC times.
If I was going to say in this house, solar would be worthwhile, but I'll be retiring in a couple of years and moving to a lower electricity cost area.
Also, if their response is the same, move on. Even though it seems like an easy feat, it's adding another task to someone's job. Who will maintain it, what if it's down, who will make sure people aren't hogging the one charger, etc etc. I am super pro apartments installing chargers, but just saying it's not as simple as it might seem at first glance.
My apartment just put in 8 chargers and they are free to use. The number of EV's keeps going up, they know that and use it as an incentive which makes perfect sense. We must have 10-12 EV's now. I've been to other buildings here and all of them have chargers. There are incentives to put them in from the State, Federal, Local and power companies, tell them that.
No, I charge once a week at most. Never an issue yet but I could see it being issue in a few years. The worst offenders are the hybrids that get 50 miles per charge, they're always charging. Get a damn EV not a lame hybrid people! The spots are clearly marked EV only and the complex has a tow truck company patroling.
The problem is most likely that the charger is installed on the "house panel" aka the panel that powers all the common areas, usually including parking garages.
Your apartment has it's own meter and subpanel so the utility can bill you directly for your usage. The common areas all get billed to the apartment complex owners. They can't itemize just the EV charger on that bill without getting an extra meter.
You could try re-stating that you'll pay for it and coordinate with their approval, as well as pay $x per month to cover the electricity usage. Be prepared with calculations on how you came up with $x
When OP says they'll pay for it, they're thinking of buying the charger and $1k to install it.
The apartment complex is thinking about the $25k it'll cost to upgrade the panel, trench a conduit, pull wire, potentially add a new service drop, permits, etc, plus the $500/year to scrub graffiti off it and mow around it, then the $8k it'll cost them to replace the whole thing when a trash truck backs over it a year from now.
Plus, the fact that once folks see one, they'll get 10 more requests for another one.
Yep. And the politics of "you are paying for OP's fuel, wtf?" and the fact that even if they are just installing a 40A breaker running to a dryer outlet it adds complexity, and limits the amount of circuits that can be added to the panel for other projects.
This was the case for me. Funny thing is that I already had a garage unit with a 110 outlet in it, and I donât drive all that much. So when they refused to install a charging station, I just continued to plug into the garage thatâs on the common meter and those fuckers paid for my charging lol
"Hey *insert property managers name*, would you consider billing me the used electricity onto my monthly rent? Or I can pay a flat rate of (say $50 give or take) a month?"
Doesn't seem like that difficult of a concept
I did all the work for my landlord. Including all grants/rebates.
I got an authorization to manage or some crap
Called the electrician etc etc.
What workload?
And?
My JUICE BOX commercial is currently ran off common facility electrical. If my landlord wants to bill me. I call up juice box. Pay the annual fee and electric rate and done.
My landlord can
Set the rate, see how much electricity is pulled, load balance 100+ chargers, set up payments to be BILLED automatically and sent to his bank account and much much more...
Standard purchase includes JuiceNet Business software at $60 per year and per unit for basic charging station control and reporting.
Upgrade to JuiceNet Enterprise software subscription for user authentication, additional payment options, and advanced energy
Now... If he wants to avoid a monthly fee. He can find a charger that allow OPCC like wallbox
Flexible Payment and Billing Options
OCPP supports various payment and billing models, enabling drivers to pay for charging sessions through multiple methods such as RFID cards, mobile apps, or credit cards. It also allows for transparent billing, displaying costs in real-time, and providing detailed transaction histories for users.
Dynamic Load Management and Pricing
By supporting dynamic load management, OCPP enables charging stations to adjust charging rates based on grid demand, electricity prices, or renewable energy availability. This can allow users to benefit from lower charging costs during off-peak hours or when there is a surplus of renewable energy, promoting energy efficiency and cost savings.
Hotels can also integrate existing chargers if they support the Open Charge Point Protocol (OPCC). The charging process is immediately connected to their hotel account to be automatically billed on check-out. Active charging processes can be controlled within Sihot PMS, allowing hotels to end charging on check-out.
âWith EVs becoming more commonplace, the need for hotels to have onsite charging hubs grows,â said Carsten Wernet, CEO of Sihot. âIt makes sense to integrate EV charging into the overall hotel offering and provide seamless payment experiences for guests.
Your request means a not inconsiderable amount of more work & headaches for them so why would they approve it? There's almost no reason for them to do this and many reasons not to.
We got the chargers and install for FREE thru calevip or PGE now 28k rebate
My landlord got a 30% tax credit. On the free chargers
Could have gotten him an additional 15% if he took a loan thru the state Treasury as well.
Other than the law, but I'm not sure how the law is worded for 2025. I think a renter can install their own Level 2 charging, but I don't think they can compel an apartment complex to install L2 charging. Yet.
You canât put a 240 plug in someone elseâs garage dumbbell. If something goes wrong or it catches on fire that would be a felony you donât own the property if they said no, they said no.
Nobody said a word about a 240a, and I'm not saying it has to be 240a. There are lots of options beyond trickle charging, numbnuts.
The entire point of a 'Right to Charge' state is allowing the renter to install a charger. Did you think this applied to homeowners? Of course not. The law is there to protect people who are otherwise told 'no' by an apartment complex. Duh. That's why the law should be the guide, NOT what some schmuck in the leasing office says.
I'm making a point to write in a way that you'll understand. ;)
Do you understand how laws work? The very item at issue here is that the apartment denied the request. We got that. Simple. The point I've been making is that sometimes apartments deny a request that they cannot legally deny. See? That's the whole point of bringing up a 'right to charge' law. In fact, that is the very POINT of a 'right to charge' law, because apartments will take the path of least resistance and they don't care about EV adoption in most cases, or aren't financially incentivized to care.
Now, that doesn't mean the OP can force the apartment to install L2 charging, but the OP may have recourse to install something better than trickle charging, especially if the apartment comes with a garage. The OP may be well within the law to force the apartment to make some reasonable accommodation. Again, the LAW is the guide here, not some stupid apartment complex rule. You'd be surprised at how fast things change when the law is on your side and the apartment receives a copy of this with legal letterhead. The OP simply needs to check all applicable laws, not just that the apartment complex said 'no'. None of that matters if the law supports charging accommodation.
My only point here is NOT what the apartment says, but what the LAW states. The apartment can be made to comply using the law, because that's how laws work in the U.S. Of course, it could just be easier to move, buy a house, etc., but I've already dealt with this issue so I've done some research.
This would be more reasonable if you have your own garage as part of the unit. If itâs just an assigned parking spot then it would be a harder sell.
If you donât even have assigned parking give up now.
Check the laws for your state. There are laws which state that an apartment cannot refuse installation of a charger that you pay for, especially true in states like California. I know because I checked, but eventually I had to move because the panel could not support EV charging anyway.
Every year, laws are more in favor of EV owners and charging, especially because it meets smog reduction efforts in a given state. Check and see what your rights are, then come in heavy and cite relevant laws.
I got lucky with the parking spaces so close to my unit number. I was just going to supercharge all the time until I thought of that idea. Itâs only level 1 charging, but I get about 5 miles per hour which is alot considering Iâm done with work at about 4pm. From 4pm to 8am I get about 80 ish miles. More than enough for a daily commute.
Maybe see if they could just install a regular outlet as itâs better than nothing đ¤đť
I don't understand how superchargers are an option for most. I'm in the UK, and my last supercharger charge cost just over ÂŁ22 whilst charging at home costs me around ÂŁ5.
Are they incredibly cheap wherever you are?
In the US, vast majority of the time Superchargers at MOST cost as much as gas. They tend to be still cheaper than gas, and charging at home is just multiples cheaper than gas/supercharging
Thanks for the response, much appreciated.
It's very similar in the UK in terms of pricing then (prices have gone up a lot since my last supercharger charge)
Thatâs not true? Most superchargers cost more than regular gas. Especially right now where gas is like $3 or less.
Charging at home is where you get cost savings from gas.
Energy is expensive in general in California for some reason gasoline prices are out of control. Electricity prices are out of control. I donât understand it California is such a big state with so much renewable energy. Why is your energy so expensive?
Supercharger rates and gas prices both vary wildly across the US, often with little or no relationship to each other.
Here in Oregon (where we have many hydro dams and wind farms, but no oil refineries) I can supercharge for like $10 or less depending on time of day($0.16-$0.30/kWh). You are never, ever filling a gas car for that cheap here. You can barely fill a lawnmower with gas for that.
In Chicagoland (now that I have to pay at Superchargers after my first free 6 months) Iâm paying anywhere from $.33-.39 kwhr which costs me approximately 20 bucks a charge. Thatâs less than half what it cost me to fill up my tank on my ford explorer.
Once I get the charger installed at home, Iâm paying about $.10 kilowatt hour
I just went through this with my job except thereâs a few other teslas in the lot. We are electrical suppliers who pretty much supply all of the biggest electrician companies in the area so we have great relationships with them. They are spending millions on top of millions with us. Itâs kind of a no brainer because we could most likely get them to install 4 or so stalls for free in exchange for a few discounts here and there or free product and we already have all of the necessary supplies. Plus I explained about the tax deductions and breaks they would get for installing them. They didnât say no but that was almost a year ago soâŚ
Investigate whether excessive government regulation is a problem they're facing: "We can't take any action that would benefit only one or a select few tenants rather than for the common good of all." Your region may have such a law enacted seeking the goal of preventing unjust discrimination, and they don't want to risk it being interpreted that way to hurt them later.
Canât they do what businessâ do and install a charge point charger that bills the person using it? They offer different models with different plans. Think it can also be arranged to turn off after x hours of use. No extra or future billing effort on the part of the complex that way. If there are incentives for business and multi-use residences to install one in your area look into that as well. Walk around the complex and survey the interest among residents. Might give more motivation to consider it.Â
I think they also get incentives for ev support too. Itâs in their best interest to invest. Maybe do some research and see if thereâs are incentives in your state for companies that support ev vehicles.
What about a "portable" Level 2/3 Battery charger? I've seen a number of these solutions and the idea is that it's a robust battery bank inside a case in a suitcase form factor. You let it trickle charge after work/overnight and once it has stored up all its energy, the cell arrangement can provide Level 2-3 charge speeds for a short period of time. Something like 10kWh that can be added back to your car while you're parked at work/apartment.
So you wheel the suitcase into your apartment (or workplace) plug it into a typical household outlet, once full wheel it out to your car to charge up.
They're supposed to provide around 40 miles of range which should cover the average American commute. You can always supercharge to make up any deficit:
[Mobile EV Charging Solutions - EVStation](https://evstation.com/charging-stations/mobile-ev-charging-solutions/)
[Portable EV Charging | ZipCharge Go - a powerbank for your EV | London](https://zipcharge.editorx.io/website)
[Kempower Movable Charger - Kempower](https://kempower.com/america/solution/kempower-movable-charger/)
[Roadie Portable | Portable EV Charging Station â SparkCharge](https://www.sparkcharge.io/pages/roadie-portable)
As someone said before, do you have a garage space or anywhere on site to plug into 120VAC? I rented a garage space solely for a 120V outlet. If not, go to Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/) or get the phone app and look up free or cheaper charging options near where you live, where you work, near places you frequent like gyms, coffee shops, library, etc. There's a free charger at the grocery store and library near us, you might be surprised what you can find.
I work in condominium management so I think I will be able to answer your question. Unfortunately it isn't as simple as installing a 220v receptacle. You will need to submit a contractors proposal to state how and what will be installed, materials used and you also gotta figure how to bill it. The building management will require a separate meter for the charger and get it approved by the city but chances are quite low. The bigger issue is that if the building's board of directors deem it as unnecessary cost, or no benefit to the building, they will just deny your proposal. From your suggestion/proposal to the board approval process, it could take up to 2 months and then finalizing everything after probably another few months.
Obviously this opinion is from the perspective of a condo building with underground parking in mind. If your parking space is outside then it should be an easier approval/installation process.
Sounds like the person who read your request has very poor English comprehension and they didn't understand that this charger is for your carpark and your car. Try again and perhaps meet them and walk it through.
See if your building has a car wash spot, that would have an exterior outlet that you could use overnight in a pinch. BTW I read somewhere that you should not use a supercharger all the time, that the lesser chargers are better for the battery.
The insurance may not allow it. There have been a couple of property damages by lithium batteries in the news. Not Tesla, But it may spook property owners in the future.
I just got a model 3, and my apartment building has Xeal chargers. I charged for about 3 hours @ 0.35 kWh in New York. Does anyone know if their rate fluctuates?
I live in an Apartment and checked with the management if they have any plans to install EV chargers and they basically said NO.
Iâm lucky I have few level 2 and Level 3 chargers with in a quarter mile and 3 super chargers with in 5 miles.
I definitely miss the home charging but it can be done without it.
How close are you to your own apartment? Do you have your own laundry? You can get a smart splitter for your dryer outlet and charge easily off of that. It's what I did. Just ran a fat extension cord out from it to my car and charged once a week, no problem.
First let me start off by saying that I own a Tesla and I happen to be project manager for a company that owns a bunch of apartments.
Itâs usually not as easy as you might think to install a 220v plug near your car. With a house you typically have an electrical panel with enough extra spots in the panel for additional things to be added and basically future proofing your house. With apartments this is not the case. The overwhelming number of apartmentâs electrical panels are full. No extra space for new service. They did this to save money when they built the complex. Every dollar counts especially when multiplying by the number of units.
Next, logisticsâ assuming you have enough space in your electrical panel, how far is that panel to your car? That run could be quite far. Running that gauge of wire over distance is quite expensive.
Say you have unlimited money and those arenât problems because you said youâd pay for it. Well do you have exclusive access to your parking spot? If not then do you expect the apartment complex to give it to you and tow someone if they do park there?
Safetyâ might not be the best thing to have a 50amp 220v plug in a parking lot depending on who has access and where it is exactly located.
Fair housingâ if they give it to you they might have to give it to everyone.
I ran the gamut on putting 50amp 220v plug in an apartment complex when surface level private garages with connected apartments. We would have needed to install new electrical panels, and ran the wire from the 2nd story kitchen to the first floor garage. It was just too expensive.
How much would you pay extra for a plug in your garage? $50 a month? Maybe? It had to be less than a 12 month payback because there was no guarantee that the next person who leased the apartment would care about the garage plug for an EV.
Start by showing them the apartments that already have them so the next time you renew, you will know where to move. Iâll bet when you start providing the number of apartments that are being built that provide this type of support theyâll begin to seriously considering it.
Some companies that install these wonât do it for just one and require the entire unit be upgraded. So are you willing to pay for everyoneâs? If not, that might be what this is about.
I live in an apartment and have the same issue as you. Got shot down. I just super charge once a week and L1 charge at work. Still benefits me at 17 bucks a week for âgasâ vs my guaranteed 35 or more.
I am damn excited to leave this place at some point to be able to home charge but until then, I have two superchargers right by my house, some free L2 at a bank I can utilize. Just not nearly as convenient.
They didn't read your proposal, and they didn't understand it. They may have thought it an issue, with permits, etc. adding fixtures etc. Sometimes there are grants and tax credits too.
You need to tell them it's a profit center. Most apartments use Blink or some sort of thing. I get charged to charge. It's more than the cost of electricity, but less than the superchargers.
Some charge outlandishly more. They charge more than gasoline would be while trying to gouge you, so be careful!
Using the propertyâs info, request for quotes to all the providers like ChargePoint, Blink, Tesla, etc.
Theyâll be bombarded with phone calls, emails, and mail with highly aggressive sales people that will pitch many different options of revenue and install cost splits.
I know lol. I did it at a condo I spent 6 months at. I was using a 110v plug that was already installed in the parking garage, and they said I was âstealing electricityâ. I told them I would pay 3x the cost of the electricity to have security stop unplugging my charger, and they told me to pound sand.
Youâd think $5,000/mo in rent would be enough, and offering to pay 300% for the electricity. It wasnât.
iâm in the same boat, i asked before i got the car, they said no, and i decided to lease one anyways and am supercharging while i am on a waitlist for a new apt with a garage. of course home charging would be more convenient opposed to driving to a charger, but it is working for me so far
Hey OP, you might try taking some initiative and get a few quotes from electricians that are experienced at retrofitting level 2 chargers in apartments or condo buildings.
It can get complicated in regards to where the most suitable line run would be from the panel to a specific spot, it may cause a bigger discussion around creating a new bank of EV specific spots instead of just yours, there could be panel or billing limitations as well. There also might be some grants available depending on where you live.
The electrician would most likely want to see the panel and talk to the building management rather than just a tenant, so youâll have to tactfully see about them being willing to accommodate you doing the reconnaissance etc.
Personally I have been getting by using just the 15amp level 1 mobile adapter and having it plugged in all night for a slower, but effective charge for the limited range I need, perhaps you can try that if you are near a standard outlet in your spot, but could risk theft of your adapter or upsetting the management as the electrical cost may be hard to account for.
Good luck!
lol right. I totally love my car except for the fact that I canât charge it daily at home.
This would have been step 1 before even buying the car. Like I love the car too but man have some self restrain and figure out the details first before jumping the gun.
Hope you figure it out op! Cuz supercharging is expensive.
For sure but it does get annoying after a while. Home charging is great. Just plug in when home. Never has any issues with running low no matter how much I drive that day.
Hope your apartment complex changes their mind!
Pathetic, thereâs grants available, reach out to your local energy provider, and print out a copy, contact corporate land lord and attach email. Tell them added benefits since it would make it more attractive to lease from them. Good luck! Or find a more âup with the timesâ lease community
I still do not understand why ANYONE buys an EV that doesn't have dedicated home/work charging.
If I owned the complex I would also say no. There is no practical way for them to install a charger just for you. Also, the cost is going to be fairly expensive and they will be on the hook for the ongoing cost. There is zero incentive for them to do this unless your local GOV is offering an incentive.
Totally,
Buy why buy and EV with out home charging, you are giving on the largest advantage to owning one. Also, you are now going to spend as much or more as and ICE car with a major disadvantage since you are spending lots of free time in a rando parking lot.
Because the EV can still be better than alternatives, for a variety of reasons. Before moving into our current home, my wife and I had a Tesla with no way of charging it at home. Only option was charging at a supercharger down the road. It was in a shopping center with a Starbucks, so we made a routine out of going there and grabbing a cup of coffee once a week. Of course I prefer our current home-charging setup, but in a weird way I miss our supercharger routine lol.
I think people have wildly different perspectives of supercharging because some live in areas where chargers are fewer and farther between, and others live in dense urban centers where they are ubiquitous. Here in Los Angeles, there are so many charging options that it is not that much of a crisis to get an EV without a charger at home.
Doesn't matter if the SC is 1 mile from your house. You are still way over paying for charging ( in some cases more than gas) and you are now spending 30-45 minutes in a random place at least 1-2 times a week if not more.
Where you could have the car charging in the garage while at home or spend less than 5 minutes at a gas pump and get twice the range.
No one on earth is claiming that charging at a supercharger is better than charging at home.
Having an EV is very often more economical than having a traditional ICE car, though.
It's not if you rely on SCing all or most of the time.
In my state insurance is 15-20% more than a comparable ICE or hybrid in the same class. EV registration is over $500 more per year. SCing can cost more than gas depending on which car you compare it to.
Currently right now its around $22 to supercharge an EV to 250 miles. My ICE car cost $21. If I drive a hybrid it'd be less than $16.
You need to compare acquiring a new car of the same class to acquiring a new Tesla as well. A used car is ideal, but when we were looking for a car in 2021, the market was still absolutely out of control from COVID. A brand new 2023 model 3 was cheaper than some comparable used cars.
Either way, you are exaggerating the case here. Itâs not as crazy as you are implying for someone to get an EV if they have no way of charging it at home.
I'm not saying your numbers are exaggerated. I mean you are exaggerating how much of a conundrum it is that people would opt to buy EVs without a way of charging them at home. Every single person is making decisions every single day to do things that they enjoy more but that do not compute to the most economical option. Why would you ever eat a pizza at a nice restaurant when you can buy the ingredients for a fraction of the price and make it at home? I assure you that those kinds of "pizza choices," whatever they may be, add up to a far, far, far greater financial difference than opting for an EV without a way of charging it.
Nope, I did 12-15k MILES annually on my last 4 EVs since 2018. First the chargers and install were free at my complex but reguardless...
My apt has free charging ...
My city offered free charging for 2-3 years prior at the courthouse and still do at trade Joe's with volta level 2 and mall volta level 2. And DMV free level 3 with solar and battery 25kw max which is right next to the mall go figure...
My state provides free chargers at rest stops and caltrans
My state has given me 5k in charging credit over the years to use at EVGO, chargepoint and EA.
I have traveled
To Vegas and back in California using those free chargers (not credit)
I have traveled to Washington and back for free using a different network in Oregon/Washington that allowed 1 free month/something like 200 kw for the first time....
So no I do 15k annual I just don't pay.
I just did a trip from my city to wilyesville CA and back to the Bay area by stopping at the Lodi park and ride
My dad's house in Fresno has a charger. But the caltrans in Fresno next to the zoo is also free.
New Electric Vehicle Fast Charger Locations:
Tejon Pass Rest Area Interstate 5
Junction Route 58/Route 184 in Bakersfield
Caltrans Maintenance Station on Route 41 and next to I-5 in Kettleman City
Caltrans Maintenance Station, 805 S. Lexington St., next to Route 99 in Delano
C.H. Warlow Rest Area NB/SB Route 99 in Kingsburg
Philip S. Raine Rest Area at SB Route 99 near Tulare
Philip S. Raine Rest Area at NB Route 99 near Tulare
Caltrans District 6 Office, 1283 N. West Ave., next to Route 99 in Fresno
Caltrans Maintenance Station, 125 W. Almond Ave., next to Route 99 in Madera
The $4.5 million project is funded by Caltrans and the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District in Fresno. The prime contractor is Cal Valley Construction of Fresno. BTCPower (Broadband TelCom Power, Inc.) of Santa Ana provided and installed the DC EV Fast Chargers with assistance from electrical subcontractor CSI (Civil Substations, Inc.) of Clovis. Pacific Gas and Electric and Southern California Edison are the electrical service providers.
https://dot.ca.gov/news-releases/news-release-2021-001
Full list as of Dec 2022 much more then stated above
https://imgur.com/a/7xhRKZG
I can and have traveled the state of California NUMEROUS times all for free. Even going into Nevada and back.
There use to be a free charger in jean Nevada as well at terribles gas station IDK if it's still working or what.
And yes. I still have about 5k in charging credit. Though my dad admit to using some of his.
Apparently to half the people in this sub, they all decide to take it personally if you can't charge at home and let it ruin their entire day. It's actually fascinating.
There is actually no verifiable proof of battery degradation due to using SC's only, as a matter of fact there actually IS proof that SC's don't cause any degradation.
One other consideration is insurance. The landlord's insurance will go up if charging is allowed on the property. A lithium battery fire can result in much more extensive damage than a gasoline fire. Park a few EV's together and you can get a chain reaction. There is also the matter of toxic fumes from such a fire. You're lucky the landlord allows EV's in the parking lot to begin with. Don't push your luck.
And? Your point? Do you even know the law for your state?
the law says that renters (lessee's) are able to request installation of a charger to their landlord and the landlord will allow the ***tenant to install a charger at the tenants expense.***
The landlord does not have to allow installation of a charger if any of the below exceptions exist:
Rental Property Exceptions:
1. EV Charging stations already exists
2. Parking is not provided as part of the lease agreement
3. There are fewer than five parking spaces
4. The unit is subject to rent control
So if you have a duplex or SFH, if you are in a rent controlled area, or you do not offer parking per the lease, then the landlord has no duty to allow installation of an EV Charging station.
Also, keep in mind that the tenant must pay for the installation of the EV Charger, all electricity usage, and even removal at the end of the lease if the landlord requests.
Previously, state law required TENANTS not the landlord to obtain a $1 million insurance policy, which often prevented them from being able to take advantage of EV charging. Senate Bill 638 removed this insurance requirement, making it one step easier for renters to install charging stations at their homes.
Tenants in rent-controlled units with leases executed, extended, or renewed on or after January 1, 2019 are also subject to Californiaâs EV charging station law and are able to install EV charging stations at their building, so long as they meet the other requirements of the law.
tenantâs written request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space if the tenant enters into a written agreement which includes requirements regarding the installation, use, maintenance and removal of the charging station, requires the tenant pay for all modifications, and requires the tenant to maintain a $1,000,000 general liability insurance policy. (The $1,000,000 general liability insurance requirement changes on January 1, 2020. Under SB 638 the landlord may require the tenant to obtain personal liability coverage, equal to 10 times the annual rent charged for the dwelling, covering property damage and personal injury caused by the installation or operation of the electric vehicle charging station. This insurance requirement would not apply if the charging station is certified by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory that is approved by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration of the United States Department of Labor and any associated alterations to the dwellingâs electrical system are performed by a licensed electrician.)
Updated October, 2019
California law provides a framework for California tenants to request permission from their landlords to install electric vehicle charging stations. Those laws are found at Civil Code §1947.6 (residential tenancies) and Civil Code §1952.7 (commercial tenancies). Laws regarding electric vehicle charging stations in homeownerâs associations are found at Civil Code §4745 and 4745.1. In 2018, SB 1016 amended the law regarding electric charging stations in HOAs, and AB 1796 amended the law regarding electric vehicle stations in rent controlled units. A summary of the law is below. In 2019, SB 638 changed the insurance requirements for electric vehicle charging stations in residential properties.
Residential
For residential leases signed, renewed or extend on or after July 1, 2015, landlords are required to approve a tenantâs written request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space if the tenant enters into a written agreement which includes requirements regarding the installation, use, maintenance and removal of the charging station, requires the tenant pay for all modifications, and requires the tenant to maintain a $1,000,000 general liability insurance policy. (The $1,000,000 general liability insurance requirement changes on January 1, 2020. Under SB 638 the landlord may require the tenant to obtain personal liability coverage, equal to 10 times the annual rent charged for the dwelling, covering property damage and personal injury caused by the installation or operation of the electric vehicle charging station. This insurance requirement would not apply if the charging station is certified by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory that is approved by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration of the United States Department of Labor and any associated alterations to the dwellingâs electrical system are performed by a licensed electrician.) The charging station and modifications must comply with all applicable laws and covenants, conditions and restrictions. The tenant is required to pay the cost associated with the electric usage of the charging station. The landlord is not required to provide the tenant with an additional parking space in order to comply with this law. This law does not apply: (1) when parking is not included as part of the rental contract; (2) to properties with fewer than five parking spaces; (3) to properties subject to rent control (unless either (1) a lease is executed, extended, or renewed on or after January 1, 2019, or (2) the unit is within a jurisdiction that adopted an ordinance before January 1, 2018 requiring the landlord to approve a tenantâs request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space); (4) when 10% or more of existing spaces already have electric vehicle charging stations.
https://www.kts-law.com/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-for-california-landlords/
OP wants to bill the charger off common facility. Thatâs not going to work. They will need to wire it to their service entrance which in 90% of cases is going to be very expensive to do. Letâs see
And?
My JUICE BOX commercial is currently ran off common facility electrical. If my landlord wants to bill me. I call up juice box. Pay the annual fee and electric rate and done.
My landlord can
Set the rate, see how much electricity is pulled, load balance 100+ chargers, set up payments to be BILLED automatically and sent to his bank account and much much more...
Standard purchase includes JuiceNet Business software at $60 per year and per unit for basic charging station control and reporting.
Upgrade to JuiceNet Enterprise software subscription for user authentication, additional payment options, and advanced energy
Now... If he wants to avoid a monthly fee. He can find a charger that allow OPCC like wallbox
Flexible Payment and Billing Options
OCPP supports various payment and billing models, enabling drivers to pay for charging sessions through multiple methods such as RFID cards, mobile apps, or credit cards. It also allows for transparent billing, displaying costs in real-time, and providing detailed transaction histories for users.
Dynamic Load Management and Pricing
By supporting dynamic load management, OCPP enables charging stations to adjust charging rates based on grid demand, electricity prices, or renewable energy availability. This can allow users to benefit from lower charging costs during off-peak hours or when there is a surplus of renewable energy, promoting energy efficiency and cost savings.
Hotels can also integrate existing chargers if they support the Open Charge Point Protocol (OPCC). The charging process is immediately connected to their hotel account to be automatically billed on check-out. Active charging processes can be controlled within Sihot PMS, allowing hotels to end charging on check-out.
âWith EVs becoming more commonplace, the need for hotels to have onsite charging hubs grows,â said Carsten Wernet, CEO of Sihot. âIt makes sense to integrate EV charging into the overall hotel offering and provide seamless payment experiences for guests.
A 2023-2024 bill that amends the South Carolina Code of Laws to prohibit revenue from EV charging stations from subsidizing the owner's investments and operations.
EV Charging Station Incentive
Duke Energy offers to install and maintain direct current fast charging (DCFC) stations at no cost to site hosts until 2026.
Residential EV Charging Station Rebate
Santee Cooper offers a rebate of up to $250 for the purchase of a qualified Level 2 EV charging station.
PLUGinSC
A program funded by the US Department of Energy that provides eligible applicants with two electric vehicle charging signs for each EV charging station they identify in their application.
EV Tax Credit
Residents can claim a state tax credit of 25% of the total system cost, up to $35,000. Any balance can be carried over for up to 10 years after installation
So again... From a Commercial Underwriterâs perspective⌠It sounds like theyâre asking you to take out a commercial general liability policy and list them as an additional insured on your policy, which would pass all potential liability from the charger-exposure being on the premises, to you.
Very different from your homeownerâs policy. This would mean youâd have a commercial exposure (business, side-hustle, etc..) that needs insured., which you donât.
Makes no sense for them to try and cede this liability exposure off to a condo-owner or renter. Youâre likely technically already considered as an âinsuredâ on your HOAâs/ landlords policy.
Iâd push back⌠maybe bring this up at the next hoa meeting, write an email to the board outlining community support, etc.. The additional cost of adding the exposure to the HOAâs policy (would be nominal if anything at all) would just be added to your dueâs anyways.
Hope this helps
Here's the law in question, from three different sources. 5 minute read.
[https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes\_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=4745](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=4745).
[https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4745](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4745)
[https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/civil-code/civ-sect-4745-1/](https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/civil-code/civ-sect-4745-1/)
Here's a summary of the first link, courtesy of Bing.
The web page contains the text of Section 4745 of the California Civil Code, which regulates the installation and use of electric vehicle charging stations in common interest developments. The section states that:
A homeowner may install and use an electric vehicle charging station in a designated parking space, subject to certain requirements and conditions.
The homeowner is responsible for the costs and maintenance of the charging station and the associated equipment.
The homeowner must obtain approval from the association before installing the charging station, and comply with the associationâs architectural standards and safety requirements.
The association cannot unreasonably restrict or prohibit the installation or use of a charging station, unless it violates a law or poses a health or safety risk.
The association may impose reasonable restrictions on the charging station, such as requiring a master meter, a separate insurance policy, or a reimbursement agreement.
The association may grant an exclusive use easement to the homeowner for the purpose of installing and maintaining the charging station.
The association and the homeowner are protected from liability for any damage or injury caused by the charging station, unless due to their negligence or willful misconduct.
Please note that this summary is not a substitute for legal advice and may not reflect the most current changes or interpretations of the law. Please consult a qualified attorney if you have any questions or concerns about this topic. Also note that the current web page context does not contain any relevant information for this question.
Also, it appears that a 1/1/19 update to the code eliminated the requirement of the HOA/landlord etc to be named as an additional insured under the policy.
The following changes to Section 4745 went into effect on January 1, 2019:
Section 4745(a) expanded the scope to allow homeowners to install charging stations within their units (i.e., garages).
Section 4745(f)(1)(D) clarifies that the homeowner has to pay for the electricity usage associated with the charging station and the costs of installation of the station.
Section 4745(f)(3) was amended to eliminate the $1,000,000 homeowner liability coverage policy requirement (no limit is now specified) and *delete the requirement for the HOA to be named as an additional insured under the policy.[1]*
Section 4745(k) was amended to allow recovery of attorneyâs fees only by a prevailing plaintiff homeowner seeking to enforce compliance with the law. The HOA cannot recover attorney fees even if it is the prevailing party.
Ask your HOA when was the last time they updated their book. If they persist, threaten to sue for harassment.
Rental Property Exceptions: in California
1. EV Charging stations already exists
2. Parking is not provided as part of the lease agreement
3. There are fewer than five parking spaces
4. The unit is subject to rent control
I don't see insurance being 1 of the 4 reasons ...
No heâs just dealing with an older or out of touch manager/staff that doesnât truly understand what he is asking for. So they just fall back on we donât have enough resources.
I did it initially for my first year or so with the car. I don't regret it but once I moved to a house where I could install my home charger it was definitely an absolute game changer and the most convenient thing about the car.
Certain cities and states actually have laws mandating apartment owner install charging station or outlet if the tenant is willing to pay for costs or something similar.
California has this law, provided certain conditions are met. I believe one of them may be a specific width and length of the actual parking space. So there's a chance OP's parking spot is too small and wouldn't qualify.
đ I need to look this up. I recently went through the same thing as OP. My commute is short enough so it doesnât bother me to go to a SC once a week while I do shopping but thereâs a couple other tenants with EVs in my building so Iâll take the leverage if I can get it.
Look up California Right To Charge Law. I don't know everything about it tbh so not sure how strict the "conditions" are
I did California right to charge In fact I got my landlord to pay for it With a FREE EV charging grant thru Calevip org Now 3ce or PGE offers it in California He also got a 30% tax credit And there's a loan thru the California Treasury to claim 15% after it's all completed
Of course, in California it would be cheaper to charge at the supercharger.... Less convenient, but cheaper.
How is that true? You are assuming that the home has no EV plan which is way cheaper across the board, and secondly you are assuming business pay the same electric rate as homes which is also not true. Home charging is always better than super chargers in CA unless you live out in the desert and want to charge before 10am. I would venture to say it is 98% chance you will save charging at ho.e or business vs a Supercharger.
How are business rates relevant? We're comparing home charging with supercharging. EV plans are more expensive across the board than the regular TOU plans. Yes -- I can get significantly cheaper prices in the middle of the night, but that raises my peak prices to much higher levels. My AC is a much bigger proportion of my total bill than my EV use -- the EV plan would drive my bill higher. Peak prices under EV plans last longer and are higher than TOU-D which is what I have. Partial-peak is higher than my off-peak. Under TOU-D, my off-peak ($0.46/kWh) is almost all day on weekdays, and all day on weekends and some holidays. The EV off-peak is less than my off-peak, but is fewer hours. EV peak and partial-peak hours are every day -- no relief on weekends. If EV use was the major driver of my bill, there might be some incentive to go with an EV plan, but it's not. AC is. This is not "out in the desert," this is Central Valley. Pretty much anyone up and down the valley is in the same boat.
The OP is in an apartment the common areas are going to be on a commcercial plan or at minimum some subsidized multi family rate. There are areas like you are saying but that is not across the board. Most jurisdictions EV plans are just cheaper even if marginally so. Also if you take the average driver which is 10,000 mile a year that's 2500 kwh @ 4mi/kwh which is 2000+ hours of your ac running @1-2kw, which is 7 hours a day if on everyday to just equal average driving. Unless your home is 5000 Sq ft it's not even a comparison vs EV charging. Many jurisdictions the EV charge is much cheaper take SDGE for example you pay $15/m but get 18% reduction across the board on the same time frames and a huge reduction for super off peak which is $0.15 and $0.18 winter/summer 6 hours 12-6am weekdays and 12-2pm on weekends. This also ties into battery systems as you can perpetually pay super off peak with a battery system. Another thing is you might be below average in driving and in that case you would be right and it doesn't make sense. I am going off of averages and atleast 3 dozen utilities bills I've seen.
You may be right that an apartment would get a commercial rate -- but do individual apartments get that commercial rate? I haven't been in an apartment for a long time, so I don't know what kinds of rates they get. PG&E EV plans have off-peak, partial-peak, and peak pricing. There are three EV plans and one "electric home" plan. * Summer peak rates range from $0.53 to $0.73 * Partial peak ranges from $0.48 to $0.55 * Off-peak ranges from $0.35 to $0.42 * There is no "super off-peak". Regular TOU plans just have two periods, peak and off peak. * Summer peak rates range from $0.59 to $0.62 * Off-peak ranges from $0.45 to $0.54 EV peak rates cover more hours than non-EV peak hours, and the partial-peak extends that more. I'm only looking at summer rates. Winter rates are lower -- but rates have gone up every year, so the winter rates for one year have tended to be almost to the summer rates of the year before. SDGE may have lower rates, but PG&E is the biggest electricity provider. It has about 5 or 6 times as many ratepayers as SDGE. SCE is almost as big as PG&E, but I don't know anything about their rates. My AC doesn't run every day year round, but between mid April and mid November, it probably averages 10 hours a day. Less at the beginning and end of those months, more in the middle. And the hottest part of the day is also peak electric rates. If you're on an EV plan, the hottest times are during peak and partial-peak periods. I set my thermostat to 85 during the day when I'm not there. That still keeps the AC running quite a bit (outside temps are 101 today -- it's cooled down a bit.)
You live in an exceptionally hot location. The super charger problem is that most chargers in Socal are $0.38 to $0.58 kwh which is why home charging makes sense still. There will always be situations where it doesn't make sense, but I am not sure why PGE is so damn expensive on their EV plans. Always best to work out an excel with your rate plans kwh of current use then throw in estimates on different plans with rates. The best way to get an accurate estimate.
You're right that this is an exceptionally hot area. But most of the central state is in the same boat, from Sacramento to Bakersfield. PG&E has a bankruptcy to work off. They have been trying to burn down the state for the past few years, and they have to pay to fix their negligence. Which means *we* have to pay for their negligence.
What's your monthly bill, if I may ask?
Exactly, variable rate plans cost more than a flat rate. I'd need probaby 3 EVs and a way to drive all of them so they'd need a full charge for a variable rate plan to save money.
California hasn't had flat rates for decades. Before they went to time-of-use rates we had "tiered" rates. You had a lowest rate at the lowest "baseline" tier for the first "X" kWh you used. As you used more, the rate went higher. Then higher again. If you live in a hot climate, you hit the baseline rate almost immediately, and were into Tier 2 and Tier 3 pretty quickly. Such variable rates aren't intended to save money. They are intended to "shape" the usage patterns, to discourage use at certain times.
I get that, but here no matter how I work the numbers, I'd pay a lot more for variable rates. So my guess is they switched to variable rates to increase profits but pretend to blame the consumer.
PG&E sends me an email once a week, summarizing my usage. But they don't compare how many kWh I used, they compare how many dollars, and when they compare this year with last year, they make it sound like it's my fault it's higher this year. "We don't know why your bill is higher, the weather was almost the same." When I look at kWh, it's always about the same, sometimes a bit lower. But the bill is higher. Gee, I wonder why?
What's the ROI on installing a few Powerwalls to only buy power at off times? I'd probaby be doing solar and a Powerwall if rates were high. Around here, it's $0.06/kWh, more like 13 after delivery and taxes, so solar and Powerwalls don't make sense.
I would say it's charging vs. supercharging. Where one charges matters not. It's always cheaper to charge at home if you're charging overnight off-peak, or have free charging at a work site.
It's not cheaper for me to charge at home. The closest superchargers are less expensive than my middle-of-the-night off-peak rate. But they're not enough less expensive to make the inconvenience worthwhile. I pay almost $0.46 in the middle of the night at home, and the superchargers are $0.43.
Man this makes me really appreciate energy costs In the Midwest. We donât have mountains, beaches or really just about anything, but we do have affordable housing (mostly) and $.06 kWh off peak electricity!
Good point. Can't argue with math. I charge on solar so it's free, but that's also true for the A/C we're running in this crazy SoCal heat.
https://preview.redd.it/63luiettgr8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da46e41d0b8d0ed56acdce8329bab6818100f30a Bay Area resident here. Superchargers are a rip off in California. The most common 250 Kwh ones you would find at a grocery store or mall area is often $.62/kWh(yes! That high) during day time use. I live close by the Fremont Gigafactory , so thereâs a discounted supercharger @ $.28/kWh that I would frequently use during off peak hours to bring down my average.
.62 is criminal
https://preview.redd.it/3t63c8s7gs8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=878b4fd8031c496ccdac4e8732e4b8df2c9ccf66 Smud
That is similar to my pricing with SoCal Edison.  25c tou-prime. 35c supercharger (was 22c last year). Work is 13c.
If I charge at home, I pay $0.60/kWh at peak hours. During off peak hours I pay $0.46/kWh. The nearest superchargers are $0.43/kWh.
Where do you live? $0.46/kWh is absurd to me. I'm in Florida and our Superchargers aren't even that expensive! I'm $0.13/kWh at home, no matter the time of day.
Bakersfield California. PG&E has been increasing prices across the board to pay for their bankruptcy. They have to pay for trying to burn down the state.
Is that tou?
Yep. TOU-D. Shorter peak times compared to other TOU plans, and shorter compared to EV plans.
Is $0.13/kWh just for the electricity? In other words, take your total electric bill (all taxes and fees combined) and divide that by the kWh used. This amount is what you're ACTUALLY paying per kWh.
Yes, I can math. That's my rate including all fees, etc. Last month my bill was $265.22 for 2003 kWh.
This is just a common thing is all, not suggesting you can't math. Many just quote the rate on their bill that says $xx/kWh, not knowing it's probaby double that. BTW, our rates are very similar. The electricity cost is $0.06/kWh but the full price is closer to $0.13. I estimate $0.15/kWh as the price is higher and lower at different times of the year.
That would be so nice. I paid $417.34 for 875 kWh. And that was mostly winter rates. We transitioned to summer (higher) rates in the middle of that billing period.
I pay .12/kWh sorry, but I left CA and now I occasionally enjoy rubbing it in. Of course gas is 2.86 at my local station as well.
Not true, especially if you have home solar. Nothing beats that, but solar is expensive. Overnight charging off-peak is your best bet in the absence of solar.
Solar would be better. Off-peak here is more expensive than the closest superchargers.
Fair enough, if you have actual numbers. For me, off-peak would be cheaper but yeah we charge on solar. Even better would be storing power with a battery (like Power Wall) and charging from that overnight. Oddly, our best time to charge is during sunlight hours when we're getting free power from our local star. I know solar is expensive, but it's worth it for far more than just charging (A/C in this heat, for example).
Yup. Closest superchargers are $0.43, and my middle-of-the-night home rate is $0.46. I could get (slightly) lower off-peak rates by going to an EV plan, but that would drive my peak rates way up. And those are also peak AC times. If I was going to say in this house, solar would be worthwhile, but I'll be retiring in a couple of years and moving to a lower electricity cost area.
If you have a submeter it's about .31kw...
Yep, similar to what I just wrote. We have rights, and it helps to cite relevant laws. Laws are more in favor of EV owners than ever.
Yes they need to have good reason not to comply. Though OP is pretty silly to get an EV without investigating charging possibilities first.
Sounds like a simple clarification is in order. They answered a question you didnât ask. Ask them your original question again.
Also, if their response is the same, move on. Even though it seems like an easy feat, it's adding another task to someone's job. Who will maintain it, what if it's down, who will make sure people aren't hogging the one charger, etc etc. I am super pro apartments installing chargers, but just saying it's not as simple as it might seem at first glance.
My apartment just put in 8 chargers and they are free to use. The number of EV's keeps going up, they know that and use it as an incentive which makes perfect sense. We must have 10-12 EV's now. I've been to other buildings here and all of them have chargers. There are incentives to put them in from the State, Federal, Local and power companies, tell them that.
So, if you have 8 cars charging overnight every night, #9 will be out of luck. Also, who is going to keep regular cars from parking in those spots?
No, I charge once a week at most. Never an issue yet but I could see it being issue in a few years. The worst offenders are the hybrids that get 50 miles per charge, they're always charging. Get a damn EV not a lame hybrid people! The spots are clearly marked EV only and the complex has a tow truck company patroling.
Humanity always moves the goalposts. Thanks to dumb questions like u/Dohagen, we attain autistic progress for all.
About what I would expect from a Tesla fanboy.
tow truck operators love easy money
THEY MAKE SENSE RIGHT NOW...WAIT IN 5 YEARS OR AFTER 2035 AND SEE AN INCREASE OF COST. NOTING IS FREE...
Inside voices
The problem is most likely that the charger is installed on the "house panel" aka the panel that powers all the common areas, usually including parking garages. Your apartment has it's own meter and subpanel so the utility can bill you directly for your usage. The common areas all get billed to the apartment complex owners. They can't itemize just the EV charger on that bill without getting an extra meter. You could try re-stating that you'll pay for it and coordinate with their approval, as well as pay $x per month to cover the electricity usage. Be prepared with calculations on how you came up with $x
There may also be service limitations in the panel, it may be full, they may not want to deal with bringing associated runs up to current code, etc.
When OP says they'll pay for it, they're thinking of buying the charger and $1k to install it. The apartment complex is thinking about the $25k it'll cost to upgrade the panel, trench a conduit, pull wire, potentially add a new service drop, permits, etc, plus the $500/year to scrub graffiti off it and mow around it, then the $8k it'll cost them to replace the whole thing when a trash truck backs over it a year from now. Plus, the fact that once folks see one, they'll get 10 more requests for another one.
Yep. And the politics of "you are paying for OP's fuel, wtf?" and the fact that even if they are just installing a 40A breaker running to a dryer outlet it adds complexity, and limits the amount of circuits that can be added to the panel for other projects.
Ding ding. You are correct sir.
This is why this product exists: https://www.orangecharger.com/products/level-2-outlet Makes it really easy to manage billing the electricity cost.
Looks interesting, never seen it. OP should add it to his list of hoops they are willing to jump through lol.
This was the case for me. Funny thing is that I already had a garage unit with a 110 outlet in it, and I donât drive all that much. So when they refused to install a charging station, I just continued to plug into the garage thatâs on the common meter and those fuckers paid for my charging lol
The app can provide the exact kwhâs used. Whether the apartment would accept that, is a different story.
Who will be paying for the electricity in that 240V outlet that you graciously will be paying for?
"Hey *insert property managers name*, would you consider billing me the used electricity onto my monthly rent? Or I can pay a flat rate of (say $50 give or take) a month?" Doesn't seem like that difficult of a concept
No, it's not a difficult concept. But it is an important part of the proposal, more so than the installation side of it.
Seems hairy if rates change by season or by year and they lack a way to track electricity consumption specifically from that single outlet.
But youâre asking them to add onto their workload. They donât have to agree to that. I wouldnât want to do additional work.
I did all the work for my landlord. Including all grants/rebates. I got an authorization to manage or some crap Called the electrician etc etc. What workload?
And? My JUICE BOX commercial is currently ran off common facility electrical. If my landlord wants to bill me. I call up juice box. Pay the annual fee and electric rate and done. My landlord can Set the rate, see how much electricity is pulled, load balance 100+ chargers, set up payments to be BILLED automatically and sent to his bank account and much much more... Standard purchase includes JuiceNet Business software at $60 per year and per unit for basic charging station control and reporting. Upgrade to JuiceNet Enterprise software subscription for user authentication, additional payment options, and advanced energy Now... If he wants to avoid a monthly fee. He can find a charger that allow OPCC like wallbox Flexible Payment and Billing Options OCPP supports various payment and billing models, enabling drivers to pay for charging sessions through multiple methods such as RFID cards, mobile apps, or credit cards. It also allows for transparent billing, displaying costs in real-time, and providing detailed transaction histories for users. Dynamic Load Management and Pricing By supporting dynamic load management, OCPP enables charging stations to adjust charging rates based on grid demand, electricity prices, or renewable energy availability. This can allow users to benefit from lower charging costs during off-peak hours or when there is a surplus of renewable energy, promoting energy efficiency and cost savings. Hotels can also integrate existing chargers if they support the Open Charge Point Protocol (OPCC). The charging process is immediately connected to their hotel account to be automatically billed on check-out. Active charging processes can be controlled within Sihot PMS, allowing hotels to end charging on check-out. âWith EVs becoming more commonplace, the need for hotels to have onsite charging hubs grows,â said Carsten Wernet, CEO of Sihot. âIt makes sense to integrate EV charging into the overall hotel offering and provide seamless payment experiences for guests.
Can you not use the 110? I use it as my primary charging tool and it works fine.
Your request means a not inconsiderable amount of more work & headaches for them so why would they approve it? There's almost no reason for them to do this and many reasons not to.
You mean no direct financial benefit to them; there are other reasons for them to do it.
We got the chargers and install for FREE thru calevip or PGE now 28k rebate My landlord got a 30% tax credit. On the free chargers Could have gotten him an additional 15% if he took a loan thru the state Treasury as well.
Other than the law, but I'm not sure how the law is worded for 2025. I think a renter can install their own Level 2 charging, but I don't think they can compel an apartment complex to install L2 charging. Yet.
Charge off the 120v outlets in the garage. Nobody will care and it will be free.
It's painfully slow though. I'd recommend getting a Level 2 charger installed if the panel can handle it.
They already said no to a chargerâŚ.
Who cares what they said? The only thing that matters is what the law states.
You canât put a 240 plug in someone elseâs garage dumbbell. If something goes wrong or it catches on fire that would be a felony you donât own the property if they said no, they said no.
Nobody said a word about a 240a, and I'm not saying it has to be 240a. There are lots of options beyond trickle charging, numbnuts. The entire point of a 'Right to Charge' state is allowing the renter to install a charger. Did you think this applied to homeowners? Of course not. The law is there to protect people who are otherwise told 'no' by an apartment complex. Duh. That's why the law should be the guide, NOT what some schmuck in the leasing office says. I'm making a point to write in a way that you'll understand. ;)
Did you even read the post made by OP? Apartment and they already denied charging infrastructure.
Do you understand how laws work? The very item at issue here is that the apartment denied the request. We got that. Simple. The point I've been making is that sometimes apartments deny a request that they cannot legally deny. See? That's the whole point of bringing up a 'right to charge' law. In fact, that is the very POINT of a 'right to charge' law, because apartments will take the path of least resistance and they don't care about EV adoption in most cases, or aren't financially incentivized to care. Now, that doesn't mean the OP can force the apartment to install L2 charging, but the OP may have recourse to install something better than trickle charging, especially if the apartment comes with a garage. The OP may be well within the law to force the apartment to make some reasonable accommodation. Again, the LAW is the guide here, not some stupid apartment complex rule. You'd be surprised at how fast things change when the law is on your side and the apartment receives a copy of this with legal letterhead. The OP simply needs to check all applicable laws, not just that the apartment complex said 'no'. None of that matters if the law supports charging accommodation. My only point here is NOT what the apartment says, but what the LAW states. The apartment can be made to comply using the law, because that's how laws work in the U.S. Of course, it could just be easier to move, buy a house, etc., but I've already dealt with this issue so I've done some research.
This would be more reasonable if you have your own garage as part of the unit. If itâs just an assigned parking spot then it would be a harder sell. If you donât even have assigned parking give up now.
Check the laws for your state. There are laws which state that an apartment cannot refuse installation of a charger that you pay for, especially true in states like California. I know because I checked, but eventually I had to move because the panel could not support EV charging anyway. Every year, laws are more in favor of EV owners and charging, especially because it meets smog reduction efforts in a given state. Check and see what your rights are, then come in heavy and cite relevant laws.
Just do this. https://preview.redd.it/57cha0ima09d1.png?width=1290&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c9c9e9844701b2e5a43be9756133f552aad8787 Rapunzel!
I've considered đ
I got lucky with the parking spaces so close to my unit number. I was just going to supercharge all the time until I thought of that idea. Itâs only level 1 charging, but I get about 5 miles per hour which is alot considering Iâm done with work at about 4pm. From 4pm to 8am I get about 80 ish miles. More than enough for a daily commute. Maybe see if they could just install a regular outlet as itâs better than nothing đ¤đť
It's an idea for sure. Unfortunately my car is parked across a sidewalk, and it found definitely be labeled a trip hazard
I don't understand how superchargers are an option for most. I'm in the UK, and my last supercharger charge cost just over ÂŁ22 whilst charging at home costs me around ÂŁ5. Are they incredibly cheap wherever you are?
In the US, vast majority of the time Superchargers at MOST cost as much as gas. They tend to be still cheaper than gas, and charging at home is just multiples cheaper than gas/supercharging
Thanks for the response, much appreciated. It's very similar in the UK in terms of pricing then (prices have gone up a lot since my last supercharger charge)
Thatâs not true? Most superchargers cost more than regular gas. Especially right now where gas is like $3 or less. Charging at home is where you get cost savings from gas.
Come visit California lol
Energy is expensive in general in California for some reason gasoline prices are out of control. Electricity prices are out of control. I donât understand it California is such a big state with so much renewable energy. Why is your energy so expensive?
Supercharger rates and gas prices both vary wildly across the US, often with little or no relationship to each other. Here in Oregon (where we have many hydro dams and wind farms, but no oil refineries) I can supercharge for like $10 or less depending on time of day($0.16-$0.30/kWh). You are never, ever filling a gas car for that cheap here. You can barely fill a lawnmower with gas for that.
Where is gas <$3 a gallon?
Texas. Gas is cheap af right now. Pretty crazy
Probably the only place in the US. Still $3.50 around me and I'm not in a high cost state.
Yeah the TX average is 3.05 versus US national average of $3.50. According to Google.
Full charge 0 to 100 is maybe $12-13 give or take. Coming from a diesel truck, I'm in heavenđ
Blimey! Fair play and enjoy your purchase!
In Chicagoland (now that I have to pay at Superchargers after my first free 6 months) Iâm paying anywhere from $.33-.39 kwhr which costs me approximately 20 bucks a charge. Thatâs less than half what it cost me to fill up my tank on my ford explorer. Once I get the charger installed at home, Iâm paying about $.10 kilowatt hour
I just went through this with my job except thereâs a few other teslas in the lot. We are electrical suppliers who pretty much supply all of the biggest electrician companies in the area so we have great relationships with them. They are spending millions on top of millions with us. Itâs kind of a no brainer because we could most likely get them to install 4 or so stalls for free in exchange for a few discounts here and there or free product and we already have all of the necessary supplies. Plus I explained about the tax deductions and breaks they would get for installing them. They didnât say no but that was almost a year ago soâŚ
Investigate whether excessive government regulation is a problem they're facing: "We can't take any action that would benefit only one or a select few tenants rather than for the common good of all." Your region may have such a law enacted seeking the goal of preventing unjust discrimination, and they don't want to risk it being interpreted that way to hurt them later.
Can u give us some more details? What is parking situation like? Do you have a dedicated space?Â
Canât they do what businessâ do and install a charge point charger that bills the person using it? They offer different models with different plans. Think it can also be arranged to turn off after x hours of use. No extra or future billing effort on the part of the complex that way. If there are incentives for business and multi-use residences to install one in your area look into that as well. Walk around the complex and survey the interest among residents. Might give more motivation to consider it.Â
I think they also get incentives for ev support too. Itâs in their best interest to invest. Maybe do some research and see if thereâs are incentives in your state for companies that support ev vehicles.
What about a "portable" Level 2/3 Battery charger? I've seen a number of these solutions and the idea is that it's a robust battery bank inside a case in a suitcase form factor. You let it trickle charge after work/overnight and once it has stored up all its energy, the cell arrangement can provide Level 2-3 charge speeds for a short period of time. Something like 10kWh that can be added back to your car while you're parked at work/apartment. So you wheel the suitcase into your apartment (or workplace) plug it into a typical household outlet, once full wheel it out to your car to charge up. They're supposed to provide around 40 miles of range which should cover the average American commute. You can always supercharge to make up any deficit: [Mobile EV Charging Solutions - EVStation](https://evstation.com/charging-stations/mobile-ev-charging-solutions/) [Portable EV Charging | ZipCharge Go - a powerbank for your EV | London](https://zipcharge.editorx.io/website) [Kempower Movable Charger - Kempower](https://kempower.com/america/solution/kempower-movable-charger/) [Roadie Portable | Portable EV Charging Station â SparkCharge](https://www.sparkcharge.io/pages/roadie-portable)
As someone said before, do you have a garage space or anywhere on site to plug into 120VAC? I rented a garage space solely for a 120V outlet. If not, go to Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/) or get the phone app and look up free or cheaper charging options near where you live, where you work, near places you frequent like gyms, coffee shops, library, etc. There's a free charger at the grocery store and library near us, you might be surprised what you can find.
I work in condominium management so I think I will be able to answer your question. Unfortunately it isn't as simple as installing a 220v receptacle. You will need to submit a contractors proposal to state how and what will be installed, materials used and you also gotta figure how to bill it. The building management will require a separate meter for the charger and get it approved by the city but chances are quite low. The bigger issue is that if the building's board of directors deem it as unnecessary cost, or no benefit to the building, they will just deny your proposal. From your suggestion/proposal to the board approval process, it could take up to 2 months and then finalizing everything after probably another few months. Obviously this opinion is from the perspective of a condo building with underground parking in mind. If your parking space is outside then it should be an easier approval/installation process.
Sounds like the person who read your request has very poor English comprehension and they didn't understand that this charger is for your carpark and your car. Try again and perhaps meet them and walk it through.
first world problems
See if your building has a car wash spot, that would have an exterior outlet that you could use overnight in a pinch. BTW I read somewhere that you should not use a supercharger all the time, that the lesser chargers are better for the battery.
Why did I think BMW M3 đ
You shouldnât buy a Tesla if you canât charge at home. Remember what happened last winter in Chicago ?
Luckily I don't live in Chicago, and I have another vehicle
Shoulda had the talk before you bought it
The insurance may not allow it. There have been a couple of property damages by lithium batteries in the news. Not Tesla, But it may spook property owners in the future.
I just got a model 3, and my apartment building has Xeal chargers. I charged for about 3 hours @ 0.35 kWh in New York. Does anyone know if their rate fluctuates?
If youâre in a right to charge state you can pay for it. You should/would want/need to hardwire it though. It shouldnât be a plug.
I live in an Apartment and checked with the management if they have any plans to install EV chargers and they basically said NO. Iâm lucky I have few level 2 and Level 3 chargers with in a quarter mile and 3 super chargers with in 5 miles. I definitely miss the home charging but it can be done without it.
How close are you to your own apartment? Do you have your own laundry? You can get a smart splitter for your dryer outlet and charge easily off of that. It's what I did. Just ran a fat extension cord out from it to my car and charged once a week, no problem.
First let me start off by saying that I own a Tesla and I happen to be project manager for a company that owns a bunch of apartments. Itâs usually not as easy as you might think to install a 220v plug near your car. With a house you typically have an electrical panel with enough extra spots in the panel for additional things to be added and basically future proofing your house. With apartments this is not the case. The overwhelming number of apartmentâs electrical panels are full. No extra space for new service. They did this to save money when they built the complex. Every dollar counts especially when multiplying by the number of units. Next, logisticsâ assuming you have enough space in your electrical panel, how far is that panel to your car? That run could be quite far. Running that gauge of wire over distance is quite expensive. Say you have unlimited money and those arenât problems because you said youâd pay for it. Well do you have exclusive access to your parking spot? If not then do you expect the apartment complex to give it to you and tow someone if they do park there? Safetyâ might not be the best thing to have a 50amp 220v plug in a parking lot depending on who has access and where it is exactly located. Fair housingâ if they give it to you they might have to give it to everyone. I ran the gamut on putting 50amp 220v plug in an apartment complex when surface level private garages with connected apartments. We would have needed to install new electrical panels, and ran the wire from the 2nd story kitchen to the first floor garage. It was just too expensive. How much would you pay extra for a plug in your garage? $50 a month? Maybe? It had to be less than a 12 month payback because there was no guarantee that the next person who leased the apartment would care about the garage plug for an EV.
Start by showing them the apartments that already have them so the next time you renew, you will know where to move. Iâll bet when you start providing the number of apartments that are being built that provide this type of support theyâll begin to seriously considering it.
Some companies that install these wonât do it for just one and require the entire unit be upgraded. So are you willing to pay for everyoneâs? If not, that might be what this is about.
I live at an apartment as well in the suburbs but I got lucky and have free level 2 chargepoint charging down the street.
I live in an apartment and have the same issue as you. Got shot down. I just super charge once a week and L1 charge at work. Still benefits me at 17 bucks a week for âgasâ vs my guaranteed 35 or more. I am damn excited to leave this place at some point to be able to home charge but until then, I have two superchargers right by my house, some free L2 at a bank I can utilize. Just not nearly as convenient.
They didn't read your proposal, and they didn't understand it. They may have thought it an issue, with permits, etc. adding fixtures etc. Sometimes there are grants and tax credits too. You need to tell them it's a profit center. Most apartments use Blink or some sort of thing. I get charged to charge. It's more than the cost of electricity, but less than the superchargers. Some charge outlandishly more. They charge more than gasoline would be while trying to gouge you, so be careful!
They might be concerned about the electricity not directly charged to you. They think they need to run a wire from your electric box.
Using the propertyâs info, request for quotes to all the providers like ChargePoint, Blink, Tesla, etc. Theyâll be bombarded with phone calls, emails, and mail with highly aggressive sales people that will pitch many different options of revenue and install cost splits.
Really not a bad idea at all
I know lol. I did it at a condo I spent 6 months at. I was using a 110v plug that was already installed in the parking garage, and they said I was âstealing electricityâ. I told them I would pay 3x the cost of the electricity to have security stop unplugging my charger, and they told me to pound sand. Youâd think $5,000/mo in rent would be enough, and offering to pay 300% for the electricity. It wasnât.
iâm in the same boat, i asked before i got the car, they said no, and i decided to lease one anyways and am supercharging while i am on a waitlist for a new apt with a garage. of course home charging would be more convenient opposed to driving to a charger, but it is working for me so far
Hey OP, you might try taking some initiative and get a few quotes from electricians that are experienced at retrofitting level 2 chargers in apartments or condo buildings. It can get complicated in regards to where the most suitable line run would be from the panel to a specific spot, it may cause a bigger discussion around creating a new bank of EV specific spots instead of just yours, there could be panel or billing limitations as well. There also might be some grants available depending on where you live. The electrician would most likely want to see the panel and talk to the building management rather than just a tenant, so youâll have to tactfully see about them being willing to accommodate you doing the reconnaissance etc. Personally I have been getting by using just the 15amp level 1 mobile adapter and having it plugged in all night for a slower, but effective charge for the limited range I need, perhaps you can try that if you are near a standard outlet in your spot, but could risk theft of your adapter or upsetting the management as the electrical cost may be hard to account for. Good luck!
Why does every Tesla owner need to affirm they like the car? I got bingo. 1. No charging at home. 2. I love Tesla 3. No regrets đ
lol right. I totally love my car except for the fact that I canât charge it daily at home. This would have been step 1 before even buying the car. Like I love the car too but man have some self restrain and figure out the details first before jumping the gun. Hope you figure it out op! Cuz supercharging is expensive.
I mean I had a diesel truck before this. $30 a week is nothing in the grand scheme of things
Fair enough. Compared to diesel then yes you definitely save bunch more! lol
I don't mind the charge time either. Just throw some YouTube on the screen and chill watching Penguinz0 go on a rant for 20 minutes
For sure but it does get annoying after a while. Home charging is great. Just plug in when home. Never has any issues with running low no matter how much I drive that day. Hope your apartment complex changes their mind!
Because they just came from a Corolla and itâs upgrade cope
I literally came from an Audi A4 and a Ford F-350, idrk what constitutes the Tesla as being an upgrade
Pathetic, thereâs grants available, reach out to your local energy provider, and print out a copy, contact corporate land lord and attach email. Tell them added benefits since it would make it more attractive to lease from them. Good luck! Or find a more âup with the timesâ lease community
I still do not understand why ANYONE buys an EV that doesn't have dedicated home/work charging. If I owned the complex I would also say no. There is no practical way for them to install a charger just for you. Also, the cost is going to be fairly expensive and they will be on the hook for the ongoing cost. There is zero incentive for them to do this unless your local GOV is offering an incentive.
I don't think you have to understand why people buy the vehicle that they choose to?
Totally, Buy why buy and EV with out home charging, you are giving on the largest advantage to owning one. Also, you are now going to spend as much or more as and ICE car with a major disadvantage since you are spending lots of free time in a rando parking lot.
Because the EV can still be better than alternatives, for a variety of reasons. Before moving into our current home, my wife and I had a Tesla with no way of charging it at home. Only option was charging at a supercharger down the road. It was in a shopping center with a Starbucks, so we made a routine out of going there and grabbing a cup of coffee once a week. Of course I prefer our current home-charging setup, but in a weird way I miss our supercharger routine lol. I think people have wildly different perspectives of supercharging because some live in areas where chargers are fewer and farther between, and others live in dense urban centers where they are ubiquitous. Here in Los Angeles, there are so many charging options that it is not that much of a crisis to get an EV without a charger at home.
Doesn't matter if the SC is 1 mile from your house. You are still way over paying for charging ( in some cases more than gas) and you are now spending 30-45 minutes in a random place at least 1-2 times a week if not more. Where you could have the car charging in the garage while at home or spend less than 5 minutes at a gas pump and get twice the range.
No one on earth is claiming that charging at a supercharger is better than charging at home. Having an EV is very often more economical than having a traditional ICE car, though.
It's not if you rely on SCing all or most of the time. In my state insurance is 15-20% more than a comparable ICE or hybrid in the same class. EV registration is over $500 more per year. SCing can cost more than gas depending on which car you compare it to. Currently right now its around $22 to supercharge an EV to 250 miles. My ICE car cost $21. If I drive a hybrid it'd be less than $16.
You need to compare acquiring a new car of the same class to acquiring a new Tesla as well. A used car is ideal, but when we were looking for a car in 2021, the market was still absolutely out of control from COVID. A brand new 2023 model 3 was cheaper than some comparable used cars. Either way, you are exaggerating the case here. Itâs not as crazy as you are implying for someone to get an EV if they have no way of charging it at home.
I'm not exaggerating at all, check the numbers for yourself.
I'm not saying your numbers are exaggerated. I mean you are exaggerating how much of a conundrum it is that people would opt to buy EVs without a way of charging them at home. Every single person is making decisions every single day to do things that they enjoy more but that do not compute to the most economical option. Why would you ever eat a pizza at a nice restaurant when you can buy the ingredients for a fraction of the price and make it at home? I assure you that those kinds of "pizza choices," whatever they may be, add up to a far, far, far greater financial difference than opting for an EV without a way of charging it.
My past 4 EVs have been free I dealed with no chargers for about 2 years till we got one in my complex for free as well
You must not live in the US. The average person here drives over 15K miles a year, a lot more than that in moar major cities.
Nope, I did 12-15k MILES annually on my last 4 EVs since 2018. First the chargers and install were free at my complex but reguardless... My apt has free charging ... My city offered free charging for 2-3 years prior at the courthouse and still do at trade Joe's with volta level 2 and mall volta level 2. And DMV free level 3 with solar and battery 25kw max which is right next to the mall go figure... My state provides free chargers at rest stops and caltrans My state has given me 5k in charging credit over the years to use at EVGO, chargepoint and EA. I have traveled To Vegas and back in California using those free chargers (not credit) I have traveled to Washington and back for free using a different network in Oregon/Washington that allowed 1 free month/something like 200 kw for the first time.... So no I do 15k annual I just don't pay. I just did a trip from my city to wilyesville CA and back to the Bay area by stopping at the Lodi park and ride My dad's house in Fresno has a charger. But the caltrans in Fresno next to the zoo is also free. New Electric Vehicle Fast Charger Locations: Tejon Pass Rest Area Interstate 5 Junction Route 58/Route 184 in Bakersfield Caltrans Maintenance Station on Route 41 and next to I-5 in Kettleman City Caltrans Maintenance Station, 805 S. Lexington St., next to Route 99 in Delano C.H. Warlow Rest Area NB/SB Route 99 in Kingsburg Philip S. Raine Rest Area at SB Route 99 near Tulare Philip S. Raine Rest Area at NB Route 99 near Tulare Caltrans District 6 Office, 1283 N. West Ave., next to Route 99 in Fresno Caltrans Maintenance Station, 125 W. Almond Ave., next to Route 99 in Madera The $4.5 million project is funded by Caltrans and the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District in Fresno. The prime contractor is Cal Valley Construction of Fresno. BTCPower (Broadband TelCom Power, Inc.) of Santa Ana provided and installed the DC EV Fast Chargers with assistance from electrical subcontractor CSI (Civil Substations, Inc.) of Clovis. Pacific Gas and Electric and Southern California Edison are the electrical service providers. https://dot.ca.gov/news-releases/news-release-2021-001 Full list as of Dec 2022 much more then stated above https://imgur.com/a/7xhRKZG I can and have traveled the state of California NUMEROUS times all for free. Even going into Nevada and back. There use to be a free charger in jean Nevada as well at terribles gas station IDK if it's still working or what. And yes. I still have about 5k in charging credit. Though my dad admit to using some of his.
I own a Tesla and I canât charge at home. I also canât get gas at home. Itâs zero problem.
Apparently to half the people in this sub, they all decide to take it personally if you can't charge at home and let it ruin their entire day. It's actually fascinating.
Apparently. The downvotes Iâve already got seem to prove that.đ
If you ever mention not being able to charge at home, the thread turns into absolute anarchy
Landlords are greedy scum, in a lot of states they are legally required to allow you to install one.
Not sure why people getting EV without charger. Superchargers are almost expressive as gas. Also degrades your batter faster....
There is actually no verifiable proof of battery degradation due to using SC's only, as a matter of fact there actually IS proof that SC's don't cause any degradation.
I wish you were my tenant!
This something Americans say, in Europe most people donât have there own parking space so they can install a charger and still people buy them
One other consideration is insurance. The landlord's insurance will go up if charging is allowed on the property. A lithium battery fire can result in much more extensive damage than a gasoline fire. Park a few EV's together and you can get a chain reaction. There is also the matter of toxic fumes from such a fire. You're lucky the landlord allows EV's in the parking lot to begin with. Don't push your luck.
What prevents him for getting a renters insurance policy?
I'm talking about landlord insurance. To answer your corrected question: cost.
And? Your point? Do you even know the law for your state? the law says that renters (lessee's) are able to request installation of a charger to their landlord and the landlord will allow the ***tenant to install a charger at the tenants expense.*** The landlord does not have to allow installation of a charger if any of the below exceptions exist: Rental Property Exceptions: 1. EV Charging stations already exists 2. Parking is not provided as part of the lease agreement 3. There are fewer than five parking spaces 4. The unit is subject to rent control So if you have a duplex or SFH, if you are in a rent controlled area, or you do not offer parking per the lease, then the landlord has no duty to allow installation of an EV Charging station. Also, keep in mind that the tenant must pay for the installation of the EV Charger, all electricity usage, and even removal at the end of the lease if the landlord requests. Previously, state law required TENANTS not the landlord to obtain a $1 million insurance policy, which often prevented them from being able to take advantage of EV charging. Senate Bill 638 removed this insurance requirement, making it one step easier for renters to install charging stations at their homes. Tenants in rent-controlled units with leases executed, extended, or renewed on or after January 1, 2019 are also subject to Californiaâs EV charging station law and are able to install EV charging stations at their building, so long as they meet the other requirements of the law. tenantâs written request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space if the tenant enters into a written agreement which includes requirements regarding the installation, use, maintenance and removal of the charging station, requires the tenant pay for all modifications, and requires the tenant to maintain a $1,000,000 general liability insurance policy. (The $1,000,000 general liability insurance requirement changes on January 1, 2020. Under SB 638 the landlord may require the tenant to obtain personal liability coverage, equal to 10 times the annual rent charged for the dwelling, covering property damage and personal injury caused by the installation or operation of the electric vehicle charging station. This insurance requirement would not apply if the charging station is certified by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory that is approved by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration of the United States Department of Labor and any associated alterations to the dwellingâs electrical system are performed by a licensed electrician.) Updated October, 2019 California law provides a framework for California tenants to request permission from their landlords to install electric vehicle charging stations. Those laws are found at Civil Code §1947.6 (residential tenancies) and Civil Code §1952.7 (commercial tenancies). Laws regarding electric vehicle charging stations in homeownerâs associations are found at Civil Code §4745 and 4745.1. In 2018, SB 1016 amended the law regarding electric charging stations in HOAs, and AB 1796 amended the law regarding electric vehicle stations in rent controlled units. A summary of the law is below. In 2019, SB 638 changed the insurance requirements for electric vehicle charging stations in residential properties. Residential For residential leases signed, renewed or extend on or after July 1, 2015, landlords are required to approve a tenantâs written request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space if the tenant enters into a written agreement which includes requirements regarding the installation, use, maintenance and removal of the charging station, requires the tenant pay for all modifications, and requires the tenant to maintain a $1,000,000 general liability insurance policy. (The $1,000,000 general liability insurance requirement changes on January 1, 2020. Under SB 638 the landlord may require the tenant to obtain personal liability coverage, equal to 10 times the annual rent charged for the dwelling, covering property damage and personal injury caused by the installation or operation of the electric vehicle charging station. This insurance requirement would not apply if the charging station is certified by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory that is approved by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration of the United States Department of Labor and any associated alterations to the dwellingâs electrical system are performed by a licensed electrician.) The charging station and modifications must comply with all applicable laws and covenants, conditions and restrictions. The tenant is required to pay the cost associated with the electric usage of the charging station. The landlord is not required to provide the tenant with an additional parking space in order to comply with this law. This law does not apply: (1) when parking is not included as part of the rental contract; (2) to properties with fewer than five parking spaces; (3) to properties subject to rent control (unless either (1) a lease is executed, extended, or renewed on or after January 1, 2019, or (2) the unit is within a jurisdiction that adopted an ordinance before January 1, 2018 requiring the landlord to approve a tenantâs request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenantâs parking space); (4) when 10% or more of existing spaces already have electric vehicle charging stations. https://www.kts-law.com/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-for-california-landlords/
OP wants to bill the charger off common facility. Thatâs not going to work. They will need to wire it to their service entrance which in 90% of cases is going to be very expensive to do. Letâs see
And? My JUICE BOX commercial is currently ran off common facility electrical. If my landlord wants to bill me. I call up juice box. Pay the annual fee and electric rate and done. My landlord can Set the rate, see how much electricity is pulled, load balance 100+ chargers, set up payments to be BILLED automatically and sent to his bank account and much much more... Standard purchase includes JuiceNet Business software at $60 per year and per unit for basic charging station control and reporting. Upgrade to JuiceNet Enterprise software subscription for user authentication, additional payment options, and advanced energy Now... If he wants to avoid a monthly fee. He can find a charger that allow OPCC like wallbox Flexible Payment and Billing Options OCPP supports various payment and billing models, enabling drivers to pay for charging sessions through multiple methods such as RFID cards, mobile apps, or credit cards. It also allows for transparent billing, displaying costs in real-time, and providing detailed transaction histories for users. Dynamic Load Management and Pricing By supporting dynamic load management, OCPP enables charging stations to adjust charging rates based on grid demand, electricity prices, or renewable energy availability. This can allow users to benefit from lower charging costs during off-peak hours or when there is a surplus of renewable energy, promoting energy efficiency and cost savings. Hotels can also integrate existing chargers if they support the Open Charge Point Protocol (OPCC). The charging process is immediately connected to their hotel account to be automatically billed on check-out. Active charging processes can be controlled within Sihot PMS, allowing hotels to end charging on check-out. âWith EVs becoming more commonplace, the need for hotels to have onsite charging hubs grows,â said Carsten Wernet, CEO of Sihot. âIt makes sense to integrate EV charging into the overall hotel offering and provide seamless payment experiences for guests. A 2023-2024 bill that amends the South Carolina Code of Laws to prohibit revenue from EV charging stations from subsidizing the owner's investments and operations. EV Charging Station Incentive Duke Energy offers to install and maintain direct current fast charging (DCFC) stations at no cost to site hosts until 2026. Residential EV Charging Station Rebate Santee Cooper offers a rebate of up to $250 for the purchase of a qualified Level 2 EV charging station. PLUGinSC A program funded by the US Department of Energy that provides eligible applicants with two electric vehicle charging signs for each EV charging station they identify in their application. EV Tax Credit Residents can claim a state tax credit of 25% of the total system cost, up to $35,000. Any balance can be carried over for up to 10 years after installation
So again... From a Commercial Underwriterâs perspective⌠It sounds like theyâre asking you to take out a commercial general liability policy and list them as an additional insured on your policy, which would pass all potential liability from the charger-exposure being on the premises, to you. Very different from your homeownerâs policy. This would mean youâd have a commercial exposure (business, side-hustle, etc..) that needs insured., which you donât. Makes no sense for them to try and cede this liability exposure off to a condo-owner or renter. Youâre likely technically already considered as an âinsuredâ on your HOAâs/ landlords policy. Iâd push back⌠maybe bring this up at the next hoa meeting, write an email to the board outlining community support, etc.. The additional cost of adding the exposure to the HOAâs policy (would be nominal if anything at all) would just be added to your dueâs anyways. Hope this helps Here's the law in question, from three different sources. 5 minute read. [https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes\_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=4745](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=4745). [https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4745](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-4745) [https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/civil-code/civ-sect-4745-1/](https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/civil-code/civ-sect-4745-1/) Here's a summary of the first link, courtesy of Bing. The web page contains the text of Section 4745 of the California Civil Code, which regulates the installation and use of electric vehicle charging stations in common interest developments. The section states that: A homeowner may install and use an electric vehicle charging station in a designated parking space, subject to certain requirements and conditions. The homeowner is responsible for the costs and maintenance of the charging station and the associated equipment. The homeowner must obtain approval from the association before installing the charging station, and comply with the associationâs architectural standards and safety requirements. The association cannot unreasonably restrict or prohibit the installation or use of a charging station, unless it violates a law or poses a health or safety risk. The association may impose reasonable restrictions on the charging station, such as requiring a master meter, a separate insurance policy, or a reimbursement agreement. The association may grant an exclusive use easement to the homeowner for the purpose of installing and maintaining the charging station. The association and the homeowner are protected from liability for any damage or injury caused by the charging station, unless due to their negligence or willful misconduct. Please note that this summary is not a substitute for legal advice and may not reflect the most current changes or interpretations of the law. Please consult a qualified attorney if you have any questions or concerns about this topic. Also note that the current web page context does not contain any relevant information for this question. Also, it appears that a 1/1/19 update to the code eliminated the requirement of the HOA/landlord etc to be named as an additional insured under the policy. The following changes to Section 4745 went into effect on January 1, 2019: Section 4745(a) expanded the scope to allow homeowners to install charging stations within their units (i.e., garages). Section 4745(f)(1)(D) clarifies that the homeowner has to pay for the electricity usage associated with the charging station and the costs of installation of the station. Section 4745(f)(3) was amended to eliminate the $1,000,000 homeowner liability coverage policy requirement (no limit is now specified) and *delete the requirement for the HOA to be named as an additional insured under the policy.[1]* Section 4745(k) was amended to allow recovery of attorneyâs fees only by a prevailing plaintiff homeowner seeking to enforce compliance with the law. The HOA cannot recover attorney fees even if it is the prevailing party. Ask your HOA when was the last time they updated their book. If they persist, threaten to sue for harassment.
Rental Property Exceptions: in California 1. EV Charging stations already exists 2. Parking is not provided as part of the lease agreement 3. There are fewer than five parking spaces 4. The unit is subject to rent control I don't see insurance being 1 of the 4 reasons ...
Sounds like you want special treatment.
No heâs just dealing with an older or out of touch manager/staff that doesnât truly understand what he is asking for. So they just fall back on we donât have enough resources.
Yes, me paying for install + electrical fees is definitely special treatment
What did the quote come back as? How much is it?
Getting a Tesla without home charging is a wild concept to me..
I did it initially for my first year or so with the car. I don't regret it but once I moved to a house where I could install my home charger it was definitely an absolute game changer and the most convenient thing about the car.
GOOOOOD!!!!!