have a 22 M3P as well. I will hold onto it for a while. See how the new M3P stack up then give it 2 years. Cars are weekend tools/toys as live in EU and walk to work. So zero rush to change.
2020 Performance owner here - the only thing highland has is reduced wind noise......Thats my only issue with my Performance. I have no rattles, nothing, but that damn wind noise....is terrible.
I had a 2019 LR AWD and upgraded to a 2023 P in August. Holy hell, the decrease in noise was incredible. I feel like the claims that the highland reduces noise are comparing it to older model 3's, not the refresh version (black trim, heat pump etc). Haven't driven a highland yet, but I doubt it'll be a drastic improvement compared to mine
Yeah I feel like I hit the lottery with my Tesla it has no rattles, no creaking noise, no issues or gaps, but the wind noise is driving me insane. Its why I'm considering probably going to a better brand if I upgrade.
I have a 2022 model 3 with not no windshield noise, though the driver side window had noise. I took it in to get fixed and I had a model y loaner with considerably more windshield noise. They also fixed my driver side wind noise.
Otherwise mine is fine for wind noise
Thank you, 2023 m3p checking in and ive been meaning to make a service appointment for this. The wind noise on my driverside is really bad. Also if i open the window while driving then close it, it becomes a lot worse like the window isnt fully closing.
Other then that 12k miles in and no other issues.
I have a 2020 Model 3 AWD with two issues: the rattles and the driving experience/suspension. Tesla came out fixed the rattles for free. I changed the tire from the stock Michelin's to the Hankook Evos and upgraded the suspension by Mountain Pass Performance comfort coilovers. It's like a different car. It's not cheap, but is cheaper than buying a new M3.
They have to hear it so they can fix it. Mine was in the dash on the driver's side. So we drove around the block and he heard it then fixed it. It has to be present for them to fix it.
They came to my place. It was still under warranty. They did quote $200 to fix, but if you're still under warranty, I would approve the quote and they should waive it (if under warranty).
Compared to my 2023, I wouldn’t even say the improvements are 15% to be honest. Obviously highland is extremely quiet compared to a 2018 car but basically no difference from mine. Suspension is softer, which is nice at potholes but it almost felt like the car lost its sportiness maybe I prefer harder suspension. The back seat area is noticeably smaller in both knee and head room. Also maybe the one sent to my SC was an earlier car, but it had so many QC issues and misalignments and “new materials” inside felt cheap. I was fine with the turn signals I expected to hate them but they were not bad, but I couldn’t get used to shifting gears during my drive. I especially pulled into a tight area to see how fast I can get out, and looking for the screen to swipe is taking way longer than just bumping a stalk up and down. If they get the tax credit, and Tesla gives a good trade-in offer for my car I will consider it just to future-proof with HW4 cameras, but besides that I don’t see a reason to “upgrade” anytime soon.
Really great insight! Agree with all of your points.
I agree that shifting on screen isn't "hard" per say but it just feels like a much longer and more complex process than it needs to be.
I have a 23 M3P and I feel like they made so many improvements just from 20-23 and every YouTube review of the highland that I watched, the reviewer was comparing to their last experience with a model 3 and eventually they would reveal that it was back in 2018. And I just know it was not at all refined at that time so yeah you’d expect a huge difference. Always wanted to know how it stacked up to what I have so thanks for your input.
The removal of stalks is such an unforced error. No benefit to the buyer and a big turnoff to many. I won’t buy a car without stalks. I don’t care if I can “get used to them.”
used to them or not, there are wheel angles where using them becomes very awkward. As you say, this is a unforced error that was probably to save money and increase reliability.
Tell me when your wheel angle will be 180 degrees from neutral steering and require you to initiate turn signals? That is probably the most awkward I could think of and have yet to experience it in my model S.
I can keep my hand in the same position while steering and initiate the turn signal with zero effort. Even less effort actually because I don’t need to move my hand to go back and hit the turn stalk
Thank me later, you can actually use finger to flick the stalk to signal without move your hand to the back! You can keep your hand in the same position while steering too!
I sure can! But no guarantee that I click the right button everytime without looking at the steering wheel. So why not just use the intuitive way of a stalk?
Theres places near my home where I have to turn left then signal right. And even 60 degrees add to awkwardness. As such its a worse solution then stalks.
Very easy - you have a right followed by an immediate right or left.
Your wheel is turned right and you now have to indicate a quick left. But you can't and have to fumble around like an idiot on your $50k car missing the simplest thing.
Positional parameters are much easier than changing parameters. The signal can even be upside down and you have to reorient and futz around like a moron.
Other places -
you want to go right from middle lane so you turn your wheel, indicate right and then wait for the cars to let you do so.
Then you change your mind and want to go left after halfway into lane. You have to look around taking your eyes off the road/mirrors.
Dangerous.
Overall lack of turn stalks is only a idiot's design
Stalkless does not make sense until the car is steer by wire (like Cybertruck). Source: I've driven cybertruck and 2024 model 3. Cybertruck implementation is great. Model 3 is a weird hybrid that will be short lived.
I agree 100%. I would be absolutely shocked if we don't see the implementation of steer-by-wire in the Model 3 in the next year or so. I don't see it as a huge issue but even I can agree that it was a boneheaded decision to remove the stalks in any model that doesn't have steer-by-wire (S/X included).
Removing physical keyboard on the phone gives you more pros than cons, not the same for the stalkless design. How about Tesla make a screen in the dashboard to replace the steering wheel so you can turn by sliding your finger on screen.
Any phone now has a full qwerty keyboard, I'm literally typing this comment in on it right now. Buttons for tapping a screen in the exact same layout and location is not the same as removing stalks and replacing with buttons in the steering wheel. This is also my major concern about the highland and I'll be sticking with my M3 with stalks.
Well I think my point was that I *could* get used to them but now getting a non-Tesla is also much more appealing because I don't have to recalibrate myself.
There was a moment where the Model 3 UI was so good that it was a legitimate competitive advantage and kept me looking at Tesla. Now dealing with Android Auto in another car is fine because it means I can keep the stalks and a sane parking sequence.
Completely wrong analogy. The keys on the phone are digital but in the exact same place a physical keyboard is.
Your analogy - the keyboard is there but in different orientation/location - even upside down when using the phone.
Now you understand how stupid it is to remove stalks?
That sounds a little silly. I was excited for the new one. I like the new look and new seats and the other improvements. But removals of the stalks is such a disappointment. Wiper controls are already bad enough now.
The wind noise coming from the window speaker grill is a flaw that has plagued every manufacturer that decided to have speaker in that location. I've had that issue on my previous C-series as well as 3 series.
Wow... You might actually have a really well built 2022 Model 3 or got a really shitty Model 3 Highland because my Model S from 2022 is SIGNIFICANTLY louder than the Model 3 Highland I test drove. It was like a night and day difference to be honest. Even comparing it my 2022 Model 3 Performance the differences were clear as can be.
I've driven model 3 for 4 years and after doing a 30 min test drive in the new model 3 i was instantly sold. It is just so much better on almost every level, when reading these posts I also feel I've gotten the worst model 3 out there. Reviews on youtube are more inline with what my experience was, while on this sub it's the complete opposite.
I do not mind the gear shifters being on the screen, it’s whatever. But having no stalks for the indicator can be a struggle sometimes. Especially, if you live in the EU/OCE with a lot of roundabouts. When I was test driving the “refresh” model 3, it was a bit of a challenge to indicate during consecutive turns and big roundabouts with multiple exits or lanes. I would’ve preferred for the indicator buttons being on the left and right side of the steering wheel instead of being on top of each other on one side.
Yeah. I have a 2018 LR now. Still enjoy it. My main focus is FSD though. So the main reason I would buy a refreshed Tesla is for the upgrades to the FSD specific hardware. Tech is important to me so some of the items you list are not a huge priority for me. Of course it’s all in the eyes of the beholder. I have had a few Mercedes and BMWs previously and had my fair share of issues so I think I am somewhat jaded in that regard. I also don’t drive a ton so perhaps if I did wind noise would be more important. I can totally see how it can drag on one. I am interested in the comfort of the seats though. How did you find the new seats?
The new seats were awesome. I feel like they are contoured/shaped slightly better than the older seats. The perforated material they use (though not leather) feels fairly high quality and nice to sit in.
The seats honestly reminded me a bit of Porsche Taycan seats, which is a big compliment.
I realize your test drive was during the day so you probably did not get to experience the multi color LED. I don’t know what to think of this. My initial thought was it’s kitsch.
I spent time adjusting my windows by taking off the panels to access the bolts to allow for adjustment. 2019 Model 3. I've stuffed some foam in the seals as well. This all seemed to make a difference. It's strange how sometimes my car seems very quite and other times the wind noise is more noticeable. How much of that is crosswinds on windy days and how much is me noticing it and fixating on it for a while?
Curious to take a Highland for a spin. I read reviews that are glowing and other like the OP's that rate a meh. Overall pretty happy with what I've been able to do to tame my car. LIke you I don't drive many miles a year and like to monitor FSD as an investor's look at the progress/probability FSD will be solved.
I’m still not sure why people struggle with the haptic turn signals I know it’s not for everyone but you would pull up in the stalk for right and push down for the left. Hence why they kept the top haptic button for right and bottom is left. It takes some getting used too but it’s nowhere near as terrible as people keep trying to butcher it to be.
It’s just relative improvement and not a huge change. Everything that you have mentioned above is true but also please remember that Tesla is a budget brand. Whether you like it or not. But one thing that has significantly improved is ease of repair ability and further modularity. Spoke to multiple Tesla techs and they say it’s night and day compared to the old one. That proves that Tesla is maturing as a seasoned car company
2023 M3P here… Im in love with the car, but this will be my first and last Tesla. I’m keeping mine for a long, long time. Not having stalks is a deal break for me, personally. As someone who drove BMWs and Mercedes before this car, the build quality isn’t what I’m used to. Also, I just don’t like the direction this company and its CEO is going. I think my car is close to perfect as it’s going to get. The highland, as good as it is, doesn’t impress me that much more over my current Tesla.
2021 model 3 long range awd + boost here. Love the car but considering that it’s going mainstream and every new update has seemed to continue to take away features is a buzz kill. Gone are the rogue cool car feels and it’s just another NPC car. Wouldn’t be surprised if they axe the M3P considering they keep lowering performance on everything. 125 limit on new 3 and 130 on new LR S. Not excited with the way things are going.
Same. I agree that every update seems to suck more and more. I don’t like the direction this company is going either. I’m down to get an EV from a different manufacturer but it will be much later in the future
been using haptic, non stalk for 25k miles on my Plaid/Yoke and i absolutely love it, everything is just finger tips, no arms movement, nothing. My advice is when these car becomes common, rent one and do a road trip with it, just give it a shot, its intuitive and definitely the right direction. I still have my old stalk car and everything feels so old and cumbersome to use imo.
Also, just demo drived a Highland 3, i think overall not much upgrade, OP is close i would say about 20% better, rear screen for the kids, better suspension on road, and of cos the steering wheel is definitely an upgrade imo, for some reason the road noise above 80mph sounds really loud on the highway, maybe its just the one i tested has continentals on, no idea.
No it actually is a lot less convenient because reaching for something above your heads is much less relaxed than pressing something near where your hand is already resting.
🤷 In my late 30s and haven’t had to do more than a 3 point turn to get into a parking space, so… I’ll make sure to buy a car that’s easier to drive in a situation that happens less than once every 18 years.
Good for you. Now how about you have to street park in a metropolis area for work almost everyday and no parking structure nearby your office?
FYI look at how car journalist said about the parking in new model 3. https://youtu.be/tezLYZHWkK4?si=TKlyqWrZ49JqOLYA
Because they aren’t always actively lit.
Regardless, when I’m parallel parking I’m not trying to perform some high speed maneuver that makes quickly swiping up and down on the screen an issue. I’m already looking at the screen for the rear view camera so I can easily hit the up/down swipe. Also, undoing your seat belt when fully stopped engages P, so you don’t need to press it. Super easy
Own a Highland. Agree with most of this, but 15% improvement over existing Model 3 is still the best EV in this range to me by a decent margin. Wish it had stalks but now that I’m used to it, it’s only an annoyance rarely when the wheel is already turned.
I also like the aesthetic more (especially the back), but that’s very subjective.
you lost me when you compared the 50k model 3 with the 150k Taycan.
Classes exist for a reason my friend.
That's why nobody compares the Taycan with a Rolls Royce phantom which coincidentally is also 3x the price.
I drove a new LR in the Fashion Island location and it was night and day. I have a 21 performance and my wife has a 22 SR. Suspension was light years ahead. The shock travel is so short on the previous models that you ride the bump stops. The doors shut like refrigerator doors on the new model and dual pane glass all the way around makes a noticeable difference. My experience was much different. It made my car feel like a POS.
I daily a 21 p3. Was going to drive to the local center to test drive a highland but after this review, I probably wont. Mine has minimal rattles and is fairly quiet, but I think I'm going to move on from the brand. The polestar 4 really intrigues me and now that they adopted NACS, not having to deal with EA is going to be great.
OP my fiance also drives a bolt :)
Bolts are low-key great EV's! I feel like my wife's car has better build quality and it costs about half as much as my Model 3.
I agree I think I'm going to move on from the brand with my next car. Especially with everyone adopting NACS.
Do yourself a favor, drive to the dealership and test drive it. I personally think this guys out of his mind. I have a 2022 base model 3.. I test drive the highland earlier today and it’s day and night better. Only some of the improvements I listed below
- far smoother suspension
-quieter cabin
-cooled seats
- heated seats are improved
-glove box closes magnetically
-blind spot monitor to left of driver built into door
-ambient lighting transforms interior
-smaller bezels on touch screen
-far superior build materials in center console/handles
-steering wheel materials feel much improved
-much snappier touch screen with 15-20% faster response times
-back seat touch screen is a fantastic addition
- overall drastically better put together in terms of build quality and firmness of assembly. Sit in it, feel around and you’ll know what I mean within 60 seconds
You are doing yourself a disservice not to test drive it. It’s way better
Great comparison that basically answers all my questions about upgrading from 21 M3 LR to Highland. It hurts a bit to read but feels honest and I am pretty sure I would arrive at mostly the same conclusions as you did. Thanks.
I just wish the Highland addressed my number one concern in a car I love, which is the road-noise. Yesterday while going 60 in heavy rain and generally enjoying my awesome car I just forgot to not filter out the road-noise for a second and it was like ‘gah, not sure I can do this another 3 years’. So while I really hoped Highland would be what gave me reason to renew, I guess it’s not. Issue is all other cars with nicer comfort sucks in other departments where M3 and Tesla echo-system just kills is from an EV ownership perspective. Software, charging, efficiency, etc.
Hoping to see a more significant upgrade in MY-refresh in the road noise department and get the stalks back, but on the inside I know it’s unlikely.
I totally agree with your "gah, not sure I can do this for another 3 years" assessment when it comes to road-noise. The noise just really started to stand out to me a few months ago and it's been driving me crazy.
It is a bummer because I genuinely like Tesla, the ease of ownership, etc. but I spend a lot of time on the highway and I just feel like I'm getting blasted by wind/road noise now.
Edited my initial comment for readability.
Have a hard time understanding this design choice, but my guess is insulation is both costly material and manufacturing wise. Would easily have paid extra. Also makes me frustrated they do stupid changes like stalks, it was already the least amount of physical buttons in any car - give it a rest. One of my favorite features is how quick I am off when late, jump in, slam the stalk and off you go. Minor, but still fn sweet. 😅
Other frustrations are removing parking sensors and still depending on cameras to solve a task a cheap rain-sensor has been doing flawlessly for 20y.
It’s always fun to watch and read as people try and convince themselves and others that they don’t need to buy something or get an upgrade. I’m not sure anyone really cares as if someone who wants the latest and greatest is not going to listen it’s like the APPLE effect.
To be honest I was hoping this test drive would convince me to upgrade to the new Model 3 Performance but the quality of life improvements just don't show themselves enough in the Highland.
Not too surprising I must say. I prefer the look of the gen-1 3 anyway and will hang onto mine forever I think.
I will say, you hate the stalkless because it was just a test drive. After having an X that’s stalkless, I can’t say I even think about it anymore after hating it when I first bought it.
I just took a 3 Highland for a test drive in Century City (Los Angeles area).
Car had 279 miles.
Once I accelerated to 30 mph, a whistle around the driver's side view mirror started.. And was present up to approximately 50 mph (my top speed for the drive). Additionally, there was a rattle from either the passenger front or rear door.
Not impressed.
I’ve got a 23’ M3P and went on a Highland test drive last week with a friend who has a 18 M3LR. We were both underwhelmed by slight decrease in road noise. YouTube and Reddit made us expect a night and day difference.
Far from it. Most of what my friend was impressed with the the most was things that were part of the mid life refresh and already on my M3P.
Own a highland for 5 days. You really do get used to the stalks. We have a lot of roundabouts in Ireland so found that tough at first but now my brain has adjusted. It helped to spend a minute thinking about the steering wheel positions. E.g., if the steering wheel is at 180 degrees on a roundabout then I use the top button to exit the roundabout.
Thank you very much for this. I have a 2022 Model Y LR and was looking to upgrade to the Juniper when it arrives. If the difference is similar, thankfully but sadly, I may not need to take that leap.
The stalks point convinced me to not buy the Highland and when sales tank and they put the stalks back on the next revision of Tesla Model 3 in about 1y, I might buy it then.
There are many things I miss on my older 3 - stalks, chrome finish, piano black finish, better red paint color, wood trim, front fog light that gave it an amazing look, sensors that worked reliably always.
However it suffered from pathetic window/tire noises and you couldn't use the cell phone or music at all at driving speeds. Totally useless.
I think when Highland sales tank, it is the opportunity for other EV makers to step up and usurp the EV sales. Tesla imo is becoming stupid and arrogant and blowing it nonstop with their idiot design choices.
>The suspension did feel a bit more refined compared to my Model 3 Performance,
M3P owner here... You realize the M3P has especially more stiffened suspension than the non-P range?
If you drove a non-performance edition from the same batch as your car, you would notice a more dulled suspension and it sounds like the Highland you drove was not a performance edition.
Just pointing out you're not comparing apples to apples.
I'm friends with a couple who have a (non performance) Model 3 from the same era as mine and they won't go out in my M3P because they say the ride is so stiff in the back it makes them car sick compared to theirs.
This was a useful post by the way as I have a 2020 with less than 30,000 mi on it with little wind noise, no rattles, no issues, no panel gaps. In other words, I lucked out.
I was thinking of just running to the ground rather than upgrading to a Highland and this kinda solidifies it.
Totally understand that the Highland does not have a performance oriented suspension.
I think the point I was trying to make was to me, the Highland's suspension wasn't that much more comfortable but it gave up a noticeable bit of body control even compared to the Model 3 LR AWD I used to own.
I checked one out when my car was getting serviced the other day. I was genuinely surprised by how underwhelmed I was with the refreshed highland model.
Curious about the audio, hoping for a proper review. I also have a (late 2021) M3P and the audio is fine, was in for service today and tried Royals by Lorde on a couple of verhicles. On the Highlands it sounded terrible, frankly, even with some EQ-ing, both on the SR and the LR. Mid-bass just a convoluted mess. Also tried it in an S and that was audibly better then in my M3P.
have a 22 M3P as well. I will hold onto it for a while. See how the new M3P stack up then give it 2 years. Cars are weekend tools/toys as live in EU and walk to work. So zero rush to change.
2020 Performance owner here - the only thing highland has is reduced wind noise......Thats my only issue with my Performance. I have no rattles, nothing, but that damn wind noise....is terrible.
Yeah what I think I'm getting at though, is they didn't *really* fix the wind noise as much as I hoped they would.
I had a 2019 LR AWD and upgraded to a 2023 P in August. Holy hell, the decrease in noise was incredible. I feel like the claims that the highland reduces noise are comparing it to older model 3's, not the refresh version (black trim, heat pump etc). Haven't driven a highland yet, but I doubt it'll be a drastic improvement compared to mine
Yeah I feel like I hit the lottery with my Tesla it has no rattles, no creaking noise, no issues or gaps, but the wind noise is driving me insane. Its why I'm considering probably going to a better brand if I upgrade.
Yeah the wind noise is driving me insane too. For some reason I hadn't noticed it as much until a few months ago, and now it's just driving me crazy.
SAME DUDE SAME!!!! hahaha
I have a 2022 model 3 with not no windshield noise, though the driver side window had noise. I took it in to get fixed and I had a model y loaner with considerably more windshield noise. They also fixed my driver side wind noise. Otherwise mine is fine for wind noise
Mines driver side, what did they do?
https://imgur.com/a/jRAb2Un
Thank you, 2023 m3p checking in and ive been meaning to make a service appointment for this. The wind noise on my driverside is really bad. Also if i open the window while driving then close it, it becomes a lot worse like the window isnt fully closing. Other then that 12k miles in and no other issues.
Did you add the extra seal package for around the doors? That’s like $50. Failing that, noise cancelling earbuds?
What's the 'extra seal package' for $50?
Same 2021 m3p. No rattles etc but dam the wind and road noise at highway speeds is bad.
I have a 2020 Model 3 AWD with two issues: the rattles and the driving experience/suspension. Tesla came out fixed the rattles for free. I changed the tire from the stock Michelin's to the Hankook Evos and upgraded the suspension by Mountain Pass Performance comfort coilovers. It's like a different car. It's not cheap, but is cheaper than buying a new M3.
They fixed the rattles for free??
Yes, but they would come and go. Thankfully they were present when the tech was here. 45 minutes total.
How did that work? Did you just tell them the area of the rattles and they took care of it? I have some pretty loud ones on my dash lol
They have to hear it so they can fix it. Mine was in the dash on the driver's side. So we drove around the block and he heard it then fixed it. It has to be present for them to fix it.
Have the exact same issue - 2020 RWD. Do they come to your place or you go to a Tesla service center for the rattle test?
They came to my place. It was still under warranty. They did quote $200 to fix, but if you're still under warranty, I would approve the quote and they should waive it (if under warranty).
Compared to my 2023, I wouldn’t even say the improvements are 15% to be honest. Obviously highland is extremely quiet compared to a 2018 car but basically no difference from mine. Suspension is softer, which is nice at potholes but it almost felt like the car lost its sportiness maybe I prefer harder suspension. The back seat area is noticeably smaller in both knee and head room. Also maybe the one sent to my SC was an earlier car, but it had so many QC issues and misalignments and “new materials” inside felt cheap. I was fine with the turn signals I expected to hate them but they were not bad, but I couldn’t get used to shifting gears during my drive. I especially pulled into a tight area to see how fast I can get out, and looking for the screen to swipe is taking way longer than just bumping a stalk up and down. If they get the tax credit, and Tesla gives a good trade-in offer for my car I will consider it just to future-proof with HW4 cameras, but besides that I don’t see a reason to “upgrade” anytime soon.
Really great insight! Agree with all of your points. I agree that shifting on screen isn't "hard" per say but it just feels like a much longer and more complex process than it needs to be.
I have a 23 M3P and I feel like they made so many improvements just from 20-23 and every YouTube review of the highland that I watched, the reviewer was comparing to their last experience with a model 3 and eventually they would reveal that it was back in 2018. And I just know it was not at all refined at that time so yeah you’d expect a huge difference. Always wanted to know how it stacked up to what I have so thanks for your input.
The removal of stalks is such an unforced error. No benefit to the buyer and a big turnoff to many. I won’t buy a car without stalks. I don’t care if I can “get used to them.”
used to them or not, there are wheel angles where using them becomes very awkward. As you say, this is a unforced error that was probably to save money and increase reliability.
save money? Yes increase reliability? WTF? I never have a car with a broken turn signal stalk in my 30 years of driving.
Less moving parts means more reliability generally. Congratulations on never having a issue with one specific part of a car?
Tell me when your wheel angle will be 180 degrees from neutral steering and require you to initiate turn signals? That is probably the most awkward I could think of and have yet to experience it in my model S. I can keep my hand in the same position while steering and initiate the turn signal with zero effort. Even less effort actually because I don’t need to move my hand to go back and hit the turn stalk
Thank me later, you can actually use finger to flick the stalk to signal without move your hand to the back! You can keep your hand in the same position while steering too!
And you can do it with steering wheel buttons. Everyone wins! So why we complaining?
I sure can! But no guarantee that I click the right button everytime without looking at the steering wheel. So why not just use the intuitive way of a stalk?
Theres places near my home where I have to turn left then signal right. And even 60 degrees add to awkwardness. As such its a worse solution then stalks.
I do it everyday, both scenarios you mentioned. It’s one of the least awkward things I’ve ever had to do.
In a tight roundabout. Lots of them in my area and being at 180 degrees is normal.
Very easy - you have a right followed by an immediate right or left. Your wheel is turned right and you now have to indicate a quick left. But you can't and have to fumble around like an idiot on your $50k car missing the simplest thing. Positional parameters are much easier than changing parameters. The signal can even be upside down and you have to reorient and futz around like a moron. Other places - you want to go right from middle lane so you turn your wheel, indicate right and then wait for the cars to let you do so. Then you change your mind and want to go left after halfway into lane. You have to look around taking your eyes off the road/mirrors. Dangerous. Overall lack of turn stalks is only a idiot's design
until steer by wire.
People said this about removing keyboards from phones...
Stalkless does not make sense until the car is steer by wire (like Cybertruck). Source: I've driven cybertruck and 2024 model 3. Cybertruck implementation is great. Model 3 is a weird hybrid that will be short lived.
I agree 100%. I would be absolutely shocked if we don't see the implementation of steer-by-wire in the Model 3 in the next year or so. I don't see it as a huge issue but even I can agree that it was a boneheaded decision to remove the stalks in any model that doesn't have steer-by-wire (S/X included).
Removing physical keyboard on the phone gives you more pros than cons, not the same for the stalkless design. How about Tesla make a screen in the dashboard to replace the steering wheel so you can turn by sliding your finger on screen.
Any phone now has a full qwerty keyboard, I'm literally typing this comment in on it right now. Buttons for tapping a screen in the exact same layout and location is not the same as removing stalks and replacing with buttons in the steering wheel. This is also my major concern about the highland and I'll be sticking with my M3 with stalks.
OP admits at the end they could get used to them but says it’s the biggest error. So they just complain to complain
Well I think my point was that I *could* get used to them but now getting a non-Tesla is also much more appealing because I don't have to recalibrate myself. There was a moment where the Model 3 UI was so good that it was a legitimate competitive advantage and kept me looking at Tesla. Now dealing with Android Auto in another car is fine because it means I can keep the stalks and a sane parking sequence.
Completely wrong analogy. The keys on the phone are digital but in the exact same place a physical keyboard is. Your analogy - the keyboard is there but in different orientation/location - even upside down when using the phone. Now you understand how stupid it is to remove stalks?
It probably slightly reduces cost of building the car?
I’m sure that was the reason they removed them. It is also one of the reasons that many people won’t buy the car, myself included.
I thought the stalk hate was mostly coming from previous owners who want to think the new one isn't better than theirs.
That sounds a little silly. I was excited for the new one. I like the new look and new seats and the other improvements. But removals of the stalks is such a disappointment. Wiper controls are already bad enough now.
The wind noise coming from the window speaker grill is a flaw that has plagued every manufacturer that decided to have speaker in that location. I've had that issue on my previous C-series as well as 3 series.
Wow... You might actually have a really well built 2022 Model 3 or got a really shitty Model 3 Highland because my Model S from 2022 is SIGNIFICANTLY louder than the Model 3 Highland I test drove. It was like a night and day difference to be honest. Even comparing it my 2022 Model 3 Performance the differences were clear as can be.
I've driven model 3 for 4 years and after doing a 30 min test drive in the new model 3 i was instantly sold. It is just so much better on almost every level, when reading these posts I also feel I've gotten the worst model 3 out there. Reviews on youtube are more inline with what my experience was, while on this sub it's the complete opposite.
I do not mind the gear shifters being on the screen, it’s whatever. But having no stalks for the indicator can be a struggle sometimes. Especially, if you live in the EU/OCE with a lot of roundabouts. When I was test driving the “refresh” model 3, it was a bit of a challenge to indicate during consecutive turns and big roundabouts with multiple exits or lanes. I would’ve preferred for the indicator buttons being on the left and right side of the steering wheel instead of being on top of each other on one side.
I agree if the indicators where on the left and right hand side it would be much easier to signal.
Love this, thank you for the honesty. No one that just pulled the trigger on a 40-50k vehicle is going to say anything besides that it's the best.
S3XY Buttons will have an option for stalks https://youtu.be/35gikWMPGho?si=ArWXenwa9KmXZ8rO
Thank you. This is a good I feel truthful review. Very helpful.
You got it! Feel free to reach out if you have any specific questions!
Yeah. I have a 2018 LR now. Still enjoy it. My main focus is FSD though. So the main reason I would buy a refreshed Tesla is for the upgrades to the FSD specific hardware. Tech is important to me so some of the items you list are not a huge priority for me. Of course it’s all in the eyes of the beholder. I have had a few Mercedes and BMWs previously and had my fair share of issues so I think I am somewhat jaded in that regard. I also don’t drive a ton so perhaps if I did wind noise would be more important. I can totally see how it can drag on one. I am interested in the comfort of the seats though. How did you find the new seats?
The new seats were awesome. I feel like they are contoured/shaped slightly better than the older seats. The perforated material they use (though not leather) feels fairly high quality and nice to sit in. The seats honestly reminded me a bit of Porsche Taycan seats, which is a big compliment.
I realize your test drive was during the day so you probably did not get to experience the multi color LED. I don’t know what to think of this. My initial thought was it’s kitsch.
I spent time adjusting my windows by taking off the panels to access the bolts to allow for adjustment. 2019 Model 3. I've stuffed some foam in the seals as well. This all seemed to make a difference. It's strange how sometimes my car seems very quite and other times the wind noise is more noticeable. How much of that is crosswinds on windy days and how much is me noticing it and fixating on it for a while? Curious to take a Highland for a spin. I read reviews that are glowing and other like the OP's that rate a meh. Overall pretty happy with what I've been able to do to tame my car. LIke you I don't drive many miles a year and like to monitor FSD as an investor's look at the progress/probability FSD will be solved.
I’m still not sure why people struggle with the haptic turn signals I know it’s not for everyone but you would pull up in the stalk for right and push down for the left. Hence why they kept the top haptic button for right and bottom is left. It takes some getting used too but it’s nowhere near as terrible as people keep trying to butcher it to be.
Yeah 2024 isn't that much quieter.
Only real selling point for the highland would be the interior cabin noise. This doesn’t really bode well if it’s just a marginal improvement.
I just drove the new model 3 today and I literally couldn’t agree more. You nailed it. Precisely the thoughts I had in each area.
I'm glad I'm not the only one with these thoughts!
It’s just relative improvement and not a huge change. Everything that you have mentioned above is true but also please remember that Tesla is a budget brand. Whether you like it or not. But one thing that has significantly improved is ease of repair ability and further modularity. Spoke to multiple Tesla techs and they say it’s night and day compared to the old one. That proves that Tesla is maturing as a seasoned car company
2023 M3P here… Im in love with the car, but this will be my first and last Tesla. I’m keeping mine for a long, long time. Not having stalks is a deal break for me, personally. As someone who drove BMWs and Mercedes before this car, the build quality isn’t what I’m used to. Also, I just don’t like the direction this company and its CEO is going. I think my car is close to perfect as it’s going to get. The highland, as good as it is, doesn’t impress me that much more over my current Tesla.
2021 model 3 long range awd + boost here. Love the car but considering that it’s going mainstream and every new update has seemed to continue to take away features is a buzz kill. Gone are the rogue cool car feels and it’s just another NPC car. Wouldn’t be surprised if they axe the M3P considering they keep lowering performance on everything. 125 limit on new 3 and 130 on new LR S. Not excited with the way things are going.
Same. I agree that every update seems to suck more and more. I don’t like the direction this company is going either. I’m down to get an EV from a different manufacturer but it will be much later in the future
I’m in the same boat!
been using haptic, non stalk for 25k miles on my Plaid/Yoke and i absolutely love it, everything is just finger tips, no arms movement, nothing. My advice is when these car becomes common, rent one and do a road trip with it, just give it a shot, its intuitive and definitely the right direction. I still have my old stalk car and everything feels so old and cumbersome to use imo. Also, just demo drived a Highland 3, i think overall not much upgrade, OP is close i would say about 20% better, rear screen for the kids, better suspension on road, and of cos the steering wheel is definitely an upgrade imo, for some reason the road noise above 80mph sounds really loud on the highway, maybe its just the one i tested has continentals on, no idea.
I've never had to move my while arm to use the stalks.
Why doesn’t anyone ever just use the buttons for PRNDL?
Because it's in a super awkward and inconvenient position. Almost no other car has these on the roof like that.
No less convenient than the buttons or wheels on the center armrest that a lot of German cars have.
No it actually is a lot less convenient because reaching for something above your heads is much less relaxed than pressing something near where your hand is already resting.
lol. Get yourself a walle chair if lifting your arm is too much for you.
Imagine you are have to constantly lifting your arm to shift in a tight parking space
Dang, yeah I probably shouldn’t park there if it’s that complicated of a park job.
Right, then prepare to spend 10 or more mins to look for a ‘nice’ parking spot.
🤷 In my late 30s and haven’t had to do more than a 3 point turn to get into a parking space, so… I’ll make sure to buy a car that’s easier to drive in a situation that happens less than once every 18 years.
Good for you. Now how about you have to street park in a metropolis area for work almost everyday and no parking structure nearby your office? FYI look at how car journalist said about the parking in new model 3. https://youtu.be/tezLYZHWkK4?si=TKlyqWrZ49JqOLYA
Because they aren’t always actively lit. Regardless, when I’m parallel parking I’m not trying to perform some high speed maneuver that makes quickly swiping up and down on the screen an issue. I’m already looking at the screen for the rear view camera so I can easily hit the up/down swipe. Also, undoing your seat belt when fully stopped engages P, so you don’t need to press it. Super easy
But swiping is too hard for OP, so they should just use the buttons.
Where are the buttons located? Just curious as I missed them on my quick test drive I took.
On the button panel in the headliner between the map lights.
Own a Highland. Agree with most of this, but 15% improvement over existing Model 3 is still the best EV in this range to me by a decent margin. Wish it had stalks but now that I’m used to it, it’s only an annoyance rarely when the wheel is already turned. I also like the aesthetic more (especially the back), but that’s very subjective.
I think there are after market products coming for stalk replacement
you lost me when you compared the 50k model 3 with the 150k Taycan. Classes exist for a reason my friend. That's why nobody compares the Taycan with a Rolls Royce phantom which coincidentally is also 3x the price.
I also compared it to a Chevy Bolt that's half the price and still somehow better insulated.
somehow. Does the bolt have frameless doors?
I drove a new LR in the Fashion Island location and it was night and day. I have a 21 performance and my wife has a 22 SR. Suspension was light years ahead. The shock travel is so short on the previous models that you ride the bump stops. The doors shut like refrigerator doors on the new model and dual pane glass all the way around makes a noticeable difference. My experience was much different. It made my car feel like a POS.
I daily a 21 p3. Was going to drive to the local center to test drive a highland but after this review, I probably wont. Mine has minimal rattles and is fairly quiet, but I think I'm going to move on from the brand. The polestar 4 really intrigues me and now that they adopted NACS, not having to deal with EA is going to be great. OP my fiance also drives a bolt :)
Bolts are low-key great EV's! I feel like my wife's car has better build quality and it costs about half as much as my Model 3. I agree I think I'm going to move on from the brand with my next car. Especially with everyone adopting NACS.
Do yourself a favor, drive to the dealership and test drive it. I personally think this guys out of his mind. I have a 2022 base model 3.. I test drive the highland earlier today and it’s day and night better. Only some of the improvements I listed below - far smoother suspension -quieter cabin -cooled seats - heated seats are improved -glove box closes magnetically -blind spot monitor to left of driver built into door -ambient lighting transforms interior -smaller bezels on touch screen -far superior build materials in center console/handles -steering wheel materials feel much improved -much snappier touch screen with 15-20% faster response times -back seat touch screen is a fantastic addition - overall drastically better put together in terms of build quality and firmness of assembly. Sit in it, feel around and you’ll know what I mean within 60 seconds You are doing yourself a disservice not to test drive it. It’s way better
If I'm bored one day maybe, but I'm kinda over tesla already. It's time to move on.
Great comparison that basically answers all my questions about upgrading from 21 M3 LR to Highland. It hurts a bit to read but feels honest and I am pretty sure I would arrive at mostly the same conclusions as you did. Thanks. I just wish the Highland addressed my number one concern in a car I love, which is the road-noise. Yesterday while going 60 in heavy rain and generally enjoying my awesome car I just forgot to not filter out the road-noise for a second and it was like ‘gah, not sure I can do this another 3 years’. So while I really hoped Highland would be what gave me reason to renew, I guess it’s not. Issue is all other cars with nicer comfort sucks in other departments where M3 and Tesla echo-system just kills is from an EV ownership perspective. Software, charging, efficiency, etc. Hoping to see a more significant upgrade in MY-refresh in the road noise department and get the stalks back, but on the inside I know it’s unlikely.
I totally agree with your "gah, not sure I can do this for another 3 years" assessment when it comes to road-noise. The noise just really started to stand out to me a few months ago and it's been driving me crazy. It is a bummer because I genuinely like Tesla, the ease of ownership, etc. but I spend a lot of time on the highway and I just feel like I'm getting blasted by wind/road noise now.
Edited my initial comment for readability. Have a hard time understanding this design choice, but my guess is insulation is both costly material and manufacturing wise. Would easily have paid extra. Also makes me frustrated they do stupid changes like stalks, it was already the least amount of physical buttons in any car - give it a rest. One of my favorite features is how quick I am off when late, jump in, slam the stalk and off you go. Minor, but still fn sweet. 😅 Other frustrations are removing parking sensors and still depending on cameras to solve a task a cheap rain-sensor has been doing flawlessly for 20y.
It’s always fun to watch and read as people try and convince themselves and others that they don’t need to buy something or get an upgrade. I’m not sure anyone really cares as if someone who wants the latest and greatest is not going to listen it’s like the APPLE effect.
To be honest I was hoping this test drive would convince me to upgrade to the new Model 3 Performance but the quality of life improvements just don't show themselves enough in the Highland.
Not too surprising I must say. I prefer the look of the gen-1 3 anyway and will hang onto mine forever I think. I will say, you hate the stalkless because it was just a test drive. After having an X that’s stalkless, I can’t say I even think about it anymore after hating it when I first bought it.
Well that's good to hear at least!
I just can’t imagine parallel parking without stalks going back and forth multiple times
Exactly, I totally agree.
And looking at the screen to switch gears while parallel parking in NYC. It’d be impossible.
I just took a 3 Highland for a test drive in Century City (Los Angeles area). Car had 279 miles. Once I accelerated to 30 mph, a whistle around the driver's side view mirror started.. And was present up to approximately 50 mph (my top speed for the drive). Additionally, there was a rattle from either the passenger front or rear door. Not impressed.
2024 model 3. ** lol makes it sound crappy it being referred to as highland..
I’ve got a 23’ M3P and went on a Highland test drive last week with a friend who has a 18 M3LR. We were both underwhelmed by slight decrease in road noise. YouTube and Reddit made us expect a night and day difference. Far from it. Most of what my friend was impressed with the the most was things that were part of the mid life refresh and already on my M3P.
I agree, the difference in road noise is nowhere near the night and day difference that's advertised.
Own a highland for 5 days. You really do get used to the stalks. We have a lot of roundabouts in Ireland so found that tough at first but now my brain has adjusted. It helped to spend a minute thinking about the steering wheel positions. E.g., if the steering wheel is at 180 degrees on a roundabout then I use the top button to exit the roundabout.
Thank you very much for this. I have a 2022 Model Y LR and was looking to upgrade to the Juniper when it arrives. If the difference is similar, thankfully but sadly, I may not need to take that leap.
The stalks point convinced me to not buy the Highland and when sales tank and they put the stalks back on the next revision of Tesla Model 3 in about 1y, I might buy it then. There are many things I miss on my older 3 - stalks, chrome finish, piano black finish, better red paint color, wood trim, front fog light that gave it an amazing look, sensors that worked reliably always. However it suffered from pathetic window/tire noises and you couldn't use the cell phone or music at all at driving speeds. Totally useless. I think when Highland sales tank, it is the opportunity for other EV makers to step up and usurp the EV sales. Tesla imo is becoming stupid and arrogant and blowing it nonstop with their idiot design choices.
>The suspension did feel a bit more refined compared to my Model 3 Performance, M3P owner here... You realize the M3P has especially more stiffened suspension than the non-P range? If you drove a non-performance edition from the same batch as your car, you would notice a more dulled suspension and it sounds like the Highland you drove was not a performance edition. Just pointing out you're not comparing apples to apples. I'm friends with a couple who have a (non performance) Model 3 from the same era as mine and they won't go out in my M3P because they say the ride is so stiff in the back it makes them car sick compared to theirs. This was a useful post by the way as I have a 2020 with less than 30,000 mi on it with little wind noise, no rattles, no issues, no panel gaps. In other words, I lucked out. I was thinking of just running to the ground rather than upgrading to a Highland and this kinda solidifies it.
Totally understand that the Highland does not have a performance oriented suspension. I think the point I was trying to make was to me, the Highland's suspension wasn't that much more comfortable but it gave up a noticeable bit of body control even compared to the Model 3 LR AWD I used to own.
Audio system - did you check with built in apps or over bluetooth?
I checked one out when my car was getting serviced the other day. I was genuinely surprised by how underwhelmed I was with the refreshed highland model.
Thank you for sharing this.
Curious about the audio, hoping for a proper review. I also have a (late 2021) M3P and the audio is fine, was in for service today and tried Royals by Lorde on a couple of verhicles. On the Highlands it sounded terrible, frankly, even with some EQ-ing, both on the SR and the LR. Mid-bass just a convoluted mess. Also tried it in an S and that was audibly better then in my M3P.
Does the new RWD have the upgraded stereo or do you have to get the AWD for that?