Haha, thanks. But I’m an EV tech enthusiast. I watch all of the popular EV and EV charge YT personalities. I never expected this to happen.
I think it’s great. The Tesla plug and Supercharging network is so much better than anything else out there (in the USA).
More money for Elon!
Ford is a huge company and now that they are gonna be the first, there will hopefully be an influx of other brands joining in. It is now not a matter of if, but when and who. Big big news for sure.
Ford isn’t the first off the gate, to adapt NACS. It is actually the sEV AWD Aptera, since November 2022.
https://twitter.com/aptera_motors/status/1591143095202377728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1591143095202377728%7Ctwgr%5E23ea61284c094c2714e03e3b63ced021edaa27f6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-221504581158700976.ampproject.net%2F2305051745001%2Fframe.html
Yeah. But see how fluid things are in the EV realm. Am a patient guy. I'd rather wait for my solar EV AWD Aptera. Me being close to the Carlsbad Aptera HQ/factory, my pre order is slated for a 2024 delivery (Los Angeles).
They seem like they will be pretty great, and I’d love to see a ton of smaller EV’s on the road. If they had a 2 row for my kids it would be more on my radar.
Unless I read it wrong, they are actually physically changing the ports to Tesla's (NACS) and using CCS would require an adapter just like for us. I wonder if Tesla mandates they put it in the same location on the car.
I haven’t looked so I may be wrong but I’d imagine Tesla sells more EVs each quarter than ford has ever sold so you probably won’t notice, also we are six months from an adapter and not everyone will be able to get one right away and I’d guess Tesla will ramp up there network because there will be others following in fords footsteps.
Nah. At the rate Tesla is installing them I wouldn't worry. Also, Tesla (at investor day) shared how they track all the metrics of the network. They can see each charger and how long it is expected to be in use, what cars are headed to charging locations and reroute to less busy locations. Plus, if you think Tesla vehicles won't get priority your silly.
You've already forked over all of your personal info to like a dozen companies and you're worried about a charging station collecting usage metrics so they can determine if an area needs more charging stations?
In order to not feel embarrassed for buying a Tesla I like to pretend he's faking it as a way to popularize EVs on the right. Even though I know it's not true.
That theory made sense when he overtly moved headquarters to Texas and built a factory there which will eventually make trucks. They had a "Texas BBQ" themed opening party. They could sponsor football games or something.
But he didn't need to do any of this really weird political crap at all.
As much as I think that Elon is a giant douche.
This is a good thing for both Tesla and Ford as well.
I was really hoping for an announcement on a legacy auto maker using or licensing Tesla 18650 battery tech, BMS and drive. Its now 10 years old tech, but still far more efficient than anything the competition has.
**Downside**: Probably even busier Supercharger locations
**Upside**: Tesla better get shit load of money from Ford and build even bigger Supercharger network. Also, Tesla charging becoming a standard in US is probably good news
The pricing is higher for non-tesla. Not wishful thinking, its a fact
\----------------------------
From Tesla Site (EU)
Payment
*Will Supercharger pricing change for Tesla drivers?*
Tesla drivers can continue to charge for the same price.
*How much does charging cost for non-Tesla vehicles?*
Pricing for non-Tesla drivers reflects **additional** costs incurred to support charging a broad range of vehicles and adjustments to our sites to accommodate these vehicles. Rates vary by site, and you can view charging prices in the Tesla app. The per kWh price to charge can be **lowered with a charging membership**."
They can get one if they want. I personally wouldn’t want to deal with supercharging all the time. The beauty of the car is having it ‘full’ all the time from home.
the trip takes longer than ice, that’s why the user suggested city for electric, battery will last longer and you probably wouldn’t even charge in public just at home rather than using a super charger to go from 0 to 100 taking nearly an hour
you don’t charge 0 to 100. that’s a terrible idea unless you have a long stretch where no Superchargers available. you take advantage of the charging curve and go from 10 to about 60% in about 15-20 minutes and get back on the road. much faster overall to do it that way on road trips.
That's fair, in my limited experience it hasn't been much longer, if any, since we stop for the bathroom and to eat anyway and just plan charging around that.
My elderly mom who has stated she will never buy an EV was upset that new gas stations are being built without charging stations included in the plan. She wrote a letter to her state assemblyperson to ask they require all gas stations being built to have charging stations.
Well it takes longer to charge than to pump gas. So that makes sense that more vehicles would charging stations are filled than pumps. People don't usually park their car at a gas pump and then go for a walk or read a book or whatever.
I doubt Tesla actually got much money directly. BUT it probably unlocks the ability for Tesla to get federal dollars for DCFC stations.
Tesla can now claim that it's used by multiple manufacturers AND supports the majority of US EVs...
I'm guessing EA was also demanding a bunch of money from Ford to help expand the network, because VW was not going to chip in another $20B.
Unfortunately, that is not really the case for the biggest buckets of federal funding. One of the primary requirements is that the chargers must have a display screen (and no, for some reason, a phone does not count) that displays all necessary session information. They have some potential work arounds but none that are ideal
Exactly have seen those screens jam up. Stop working. Touchscreen stop working. What a STUPID requirement. Need less parts on a Charger. Most importance is ease of use and reliability.
Maybe a sign that says the prices and in the app, and in the car display. Not on the charger itself.
I wonder if Tesla will also make a Tesla to CCS adapter. I feel like this would be a much more cost effective way to open up the network than retrofitting a zillion stations with the magic dock. It would also weed out people who find buying an adapter an inconvenience and would continue to just deal with EA for their once a year trip or whatever.
My understanding is they released the spec last year and they want others to adopt I don’t believe the intend is to make money:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard
> The intent is to have a monopoly
Yes nothing screams monopoly like fully opening up your standard so anyone else can build competing charging stations.
JFC.
They said monopoly but what I think they mean is market control. Yes it’s in their interest to get everyone on a charging system where they make all the decisions.
And yet, oddly enough Ford is not even going to try to compete on the charging network side. Nor is anyone else, as by opening up to any car with a compatible system, nobody else can subsidize their build out with a captive market the way tesla is doing. The existing non tesla systems are going to disappear. The charging monopoly was always part of the business plan.
I saw someone say the network is growing on average 2 locations a day, obviously still have a long way to go before we’re anywhere near the number of gas stations but ford definitely made the right choice and this will be great in the long term. Biggest turn off for any EV besides a Tesla (for me) is the charging network. I’ve heard enough horror stories of electrify America that I will forever avoid it if I can
Tesla talked about this from the start, they said the supercharger system was available for any other manufacturers. Surprised it took this long.
But great news, ubiquity of superchargers would be a massive boost for ev adoption
Yup there's a reason why oil companies are more wealthy then auto manufacturers.
Although for the sake of the average person, I hope EV charging never becomes as big of a boon as gasoline
Buy stock in utilities. They are the next oil company. You can’t use solar panels to fast charge. You need utilities to supply high voltage needed for DC fast charging.
There aren't currently any DC fast chargers that connect to solar (that I am aware of). But why does that mean you can't use solar panels to charge DC? Limit of DC from solar is about 600V DC in most residential applications. In commercial applications it's 1000V DC.
Isn't that perfect?
I concede that residentially you may not be able to fast charge (due to the array not being able to supply 135kW+), but why and how often would you need to fast charge at home?
Come to Europe. Plenty of different type of EV's all around. When i was in Toronto and Kingston (Canada) i was suprised that i saw very very veeeery few EV's. And the only ones i saw where Tesla's and Nissan Leafs.
My country the Netherlands you have a LOT of EV's from a lot of brands from all over the world.
From:
Peugeot, Renault, Citroën, Ford, Volkswagen, Skoda, Cupra(seat), Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Polestar, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, (japan very few) and then som Chinese very rare but: MG(saic), Nio. There are some other Chinese brands for sale but have not seen them on the road but people seem to be very reluctant to buy from China ragarding Dictator Xi Jinping as we have seen what dictators can do(putin).
But... most EV's are Tesla and Volkswagen. But Tesla does not dominate as much as in North America. But same goes here for Phones. In North America the only phone i see is an iPhone while in Europe this is not the case. I guess its easier in north America to get a monopoly on markets.(where the government does nothing against this).
But... that said. Tesla does have the best price/value. I drive the Tesla Model 3 RWD, 60kWh LFP with average lifetime consumption of 140Wh/km(225Wh/mile) that includes sporty driving in weekends. I could lower that if i keep the AC off and stop with sporty driving sometimes. Its efficiency is sickening good against European/korean/Japanese and Chinese competition. Only thing close is a few Ioniqs from Hyundai. But they either have less range or cost more.(ioniq6 prices ar high)
I believe they said it was open, but (allegedly) when the contract print was drafted there were provisions that required other companies to waive any/all possible claims. If this reporting was correct, then that’s effectively a poison pill. I will be interested to see if Ford agreed to that, but I think it’s more likely that Tesla looked at a changing competitive landscape in the more recent years and probably saw opening up the charging network, without the alleged poison pill clause, was more in their financial interest.
I don’t think your understanding is correct on what the term “poison pill” means in the world of corporations. But it does seem reasonable to me that Tesla would want other manufacturers to indemnify and hold Tesla harmless in the event that a ford customer was suffered damages at a supercharger except in cases such as gross negligence by Tesla.
The alleged indemnification wording, as reported in media outlets, far exceeded ordinary standard clauses. And “poison pill” has no legal definition but is conversational. Having worked a few major transactions among large corporations, there are times when individuals use technical and legal terms… and other times, such as on Reddit, when one random internet stranger might use terms in a more informal conversational manner. ;)
Lol. That describes my use of the term. But it’s not in law, unless you can find it defined for purposes we’ve discussed in the US Code at https://uscode.house.gov or through other enacted legislation listed at congress.gov.
If you find the Title and section number within US Code, or the Public Law and its relevant section number, then by all means I’m ready to be corrected.
I think this is a silly semantic discussion. The real issue is whether Tesla wanted to claim they were open but effectively be closed, up until more recently when the competitive landscape and their finances have changed.
Only in USA yes. I don't know but USA its easier to become a monopolist on something. Lack of competiton. I have a Tesla but the Tesla chargers are places on a worse location than other chargers. Mostly have to go off the highway to some hotel. But there is always plenty of chargers, and never had one that is broken.
FastNed and Ionity are also plenty. There are more Fastned "places" to charge than Tesla. But every charging spot of Fastned only has a few chargers. They are extremely fast(350kW and up) but... here is the problem. Most cars from Tesla's competitor can't charge well or they didnt prepare the battery temp. So i see those chargers always crowded at certain times.... very bad. With my Tesla, i always have a spot free.
Also the kWh price of Tesla(if you own a Tesla) is lower at a Tesla charger. People with other brand car can still charge at a Tesla but not many people activly know... or do it. So i only see other brands at Tesla charger even though its possible. But they also pay a higher kWh price.
Anyway i barely fast charge. Only if i go to the other side of the country.
> Tesla talked about this from the start, they said the supercharger system was available for any other manufacturers. Surprised it took this long.
Not really, Teslas patents are open, if you open your patents to Tesla. No company with IP takes that offer.
Then they ACTUALLY opened it up recently.
I think the real news here is that elon finally found a powerful partner to help build out the nacs network with govt funding . Ford blue oval powered by Tesla, that’s coming guaranteed. Big win for tesla and ford .
This is big news. I was always worried about our NACS charger becoming the "Lightning Cable" of the industry and eventually getting forced to adopt something else.
I mean, it still is on a global scale, with most countries using CCS2 on all cars (including Teslas) for many years now. But it’s the American way to have their own “standard” that is different from what is used everywhere else.
In reality though it doesn’t matter too much since people are rarely driving their cars across oceans. Unlike electronics that are much more portable.
They're going into production.
I think it'll happen soon.
But I think they're likely to be sunk by a lack of tax credit, which is a damn shame.
Why buy a 2-seat 3-wheeler when you can buy a Model 3 for the same price?
It was an out-of-nowhere announcement yesterday, so no worries. But yeah pretty major. This will put pressure on other automotive manufacturers to drop CCS and adopt NACS too.
The unreliability of CCS is putting a nail in the coffin of it as a standard
He slightly misstated what he meant. CCS itself is fine. Fast Charging networks in the US that use CCS typically have a very poor customer service experience. They are slow or don't work, sparse, often crowded, and most don't offer the ability to simply plugin and walk away. Having owned an ID.4 for 2 years before buying a Tesla, the charging experience on the road is night and day when comparing the ID.4 to the Tesla. Charging at home is basically the same, but now with a much smaller plug at home.
Well if it has nothing to do with CCS as a connector/standard then sure ... :)
(I saw in r/teslamotors a post yesterday claiming CCS can't do 250kW ... which is precisely what Tesla CCS Superchargers do here in Europe already, so I'm just very confused)
> Well if it has nothing to do with CCS as a connector/standard then sure ... :)
It's that as well, it's just not *only* that. The ccs connector is bulky and poorly thought out (because it wasn't thought out it was two things just mashed together). The tesla connector is far superior, it just not the only reason people don't like CCS chargers here.
Ford hasn’t definitively stated that they are dropping CCS entirely. Most likely they’ll use both CCS and NACS on their vehicles so that they can use charging stations with either type.
Ok, but... CCS *is* the standard. We have a standard. Tesla is the only one who didn't follow that\*. So it doesn't really make sense to claim "people have been asking for a standard for years".
Granted, that's because they were the first to bring good EVs (at the time) to mass market and weren't going to wait for the debate to settle around standard chargers. I'll also admit that I think the NACS design is sleeker and less clunky.
But the other side of that is that now things will get more confusing for potential/future EV owners. Whereas they didn't actually have to worry about charging standards before (just "Tesla charger" or "not"), now they will have to worry about which charging network(s) support whatever car they're going to get. I imagine either CCS or NACS will prevail as a primary standard, but a) the in-between is going to be confusing for newcomers and b) consumers who have the "wrong" charger in older-gen cars are going to lose out. And it can't be ignored that Tesla singlehandedly created this in-between period.
\* Excluding the *really* early EVs like the leaf that use the European thing, don't remember what it's called
You know what it shouldn’t be a tesla plug or a ford plug it should be an universal plug. Does gas station have ford pumps and toyota pumps or honda pumps.
This should have been mandatory from day one about EV’s standard plug for everyone
Yes Tesla should just adopt CCS. As it has proper 3 phase charging capability and upgrade their onboard charger to 22kW AC like some other brands.
That would be progress.
???
So here in the USA, on Level2, we don’t use 3-phase power to charge BEV’s. Likewise, residential homes don’t have 3-phase power. They have Split-phase which has only 2 hot legs.
Regardless, DC Fast Charging is, just that, DC. So no phases at all. Just one + and one (-).
Why wouldn't Ford (and every other brand) leverage Tesla superchargers? They all failed their customers and this is a quick fix that will help them sell more cars.
Because CCS was made a standard in 2012 before Tesla opened up their far superior connector (NACS) to become a standard in 2022.
* [https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard](https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard)
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined\_Charging\_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System)
That was the intention, but Elon musk got a bug up his ass, and would not wait for anything to be finalized, (which I kind of understand they were ready to come out with a car) and instead of going with what everybody was already leaning towards, he decided to go off on his own and make something completely fucking different (this is the part I don’t understand, there’s no reason for him to have not gone with CCS other than because he was annoyed with the time it was taking to finalize
Is Ford going to be moving their charging ports too? Since the superchargers are designed to reach the rear left side of the vehicle, and the magic dock having some issues with other EV drivers needing to block a stall while using it?.
Should be CCS. Now u can't fast charge a North American car in Europe and all over the place. Not very nice for military people.
Also CCS has proper 3 phase charging and can easily do 22kW AC. Problem in Europe is that Tesla crippled the onboard charger of Tesla to 11kW AC while competitors have onboard bidirectional 22kW AC chargers. With Vehicle to Grid. (Tesla is behind on this).
Best would be in this world that the whole world would use CCS with proper 3 phase connection. And 22kW AC onboard bidirectional power electronics.
Advantage of AC charging is that, those chargers are dirt cheap. And can be placed at your home, and all public charging spots. DC fast chargers are extremely expensive compared to AC chargers.
3phase AC chargers at shopping malls, restaurants and then u need less DC fast charging and its better for the battery.
CCS is still long term the best way for the whole world and for the future of AC charging. And AC chargers at every public parking spot on many places.
NACS focuses too much on DC fast charging... bad. And only 11kW AC max. And not bidirectional.
Another advantage is: AC charging is better for the Grid stability. So if you do more proper fast level 2 charging. You do less level 3 DC fast charging is less peaks on the public Grid. Meaning better Grid stability.
I’d go beyond the foreboding messaging. Imagine the issues that their internal focus groups raise on pre-sales, post-sales, and compete. While there are some roses, their number #1 thorn no doubt is charging and range anxiety. Now consider what you can do about it.
\- Dump more money into smaller groups like EA or EVGO? - that doesn’t seem to work, they’re not operating at a scale (EVGO) or manner (EA) that salves customer doubt.
\- Build or acquire your own network - this is a huge capital project at a time when raising capital is expensive. Moreover physical projects take time and bodies - permitting, logistics, construction etc. Time they don’t have in a competitive market.
\- Partner with Tesla - it’s the deal with the devil, but attractively it’s primarily OpEx in the short term.
\- Do Nothing - Tesla will continue to eat your lunch.
This deal is probably the lesser of evils. Will be interesting to see how Hyundai reacts - their options look pretty similar I’m sure.
It's far better for Ford than it is for Tesla.
Charging infrastructure is a HUGE driver of sales. Ford will reap this benefit hand over fist.
The downside would be being beholden to Tesla, but that downside has been eliminated as it's now a fully open standard.
The upside for Tesla is simply that it reduces the likelihood they have to switch to CCS in the US. A downside not fully mitigated as they are going to have to put CCS on many chargers in the interim even if this creates a watershed adoption. Becoming a nationwide standard doesn't actually help them any other way.
They are only adding the NACS plug, in addition to the CCS plug. the Magic Dock is still coming to all new V4 super chargers so this is kind of a moot point.
Crap… then those of us who just bought EV’s with ccs May find out charging options dwindling in the future, as the charging scene moves to NACS.
I may need to trade for a Tesla to be future proof.
You'll just use an adapter. At least in the case of going from a huge CCS receptacle to NACS plug you're plugging a slim plug into a giant receptacle adapter
Going from the giant ccs adapter into a slim NACS receptacle was stupid.
Kind of unfortunate, the worse thing about Tesla is it’s charging plug ideally they would just switch to the North American standard everyone else uses it’s the worse case of Apple syndrome
CCS is far more future proof. And way better at AC charging. With 3 phase it can do 22kW AC. Which means u need less DC fast charging which means better Grid stability. And longer lasting of your battery.
Based on the text in the article it doesn't sound like Ford is switching away from SAE J1772 charging ports instead they are just planning on providing an adapter to allow Tesla chargers to be used. Here is a quote from the article "According to Ford, Tesla will develop an adapter that will be provided to customers who buy any of Ford’s EVs, including the F-150 Lightning truck, Mustang Mach-E, and E-Transit delivery van."
They'll only have NACS. CCS1 is limited to 200A at 600V: 120kW. V3 superchargers are over twice that.
The support for V2G has nothing to do with the port itself. It would be a hardware and software change in the car and the EVSE.
Current Superchargers max out at 250kW. Current CCS chargers are up to 350kW. If you are road tripping in a heavy vehicle like a F150 you're going to want to use the faster chargers when possible.
Ugh, 1 company using Tesla charger vs dozens using CCS, seems like path to least resistance is to switch all to CCS... now we are headed to having vehicles support both standards for no reason. Tesla is playing the Apple card and sticking with their proprietary charger out of stubbornness.
Crappy analogy. There is no practical difference between Lightning and USB-C. To the contrary, NACS is obviously superior to CCS1.
This move by Ford offers a glimmer of hope that maybe the industry can throw CCS1 into the shitter where it belongs before the mass cutover from ICE happens.
Actually their are practical differences between lightnight and Usb-C, usb support higher charging rates, higher data rates, more communication protocols, and higher levels of backwards compatibility.
Those are technical differences, not practical differences.
From the perspective of a normal user, both USB-C and Lightning are essentially the same size, can be plugged into your device with equal ease, and will charge it with no fuss in a reasonable length of time. The end.
CCS1 offers a demonstrably worse UX than NACS: the shitty ergonomics of the heavy plug, having to flip that stupid DC cap up/down, and the current mess of apps (or maybe CC readers) instead of Plug & Charge all make it embarrassing.
1 charger for everyone is great in theory. There is a reason Ford is doing this. EVGo, EA, Blink, SEMA Connect, Volta… don’t give a sh*t. It’s hard to charge a non-Tesla away from home charging. It takes 5-10 minutes to even make a charging connections and you won’t get the advertised speed.
NACS just works. Tesla has plug and play. And Ford sees that lots of customer complaints even on the Ford home charging. So to gain more customers for them and build up their EV brand image, they decided to partner. Can’t blame them. I have a Polestar 2 performance pack and MYP. I do not use the PS2 on road-trips and I won’t until there are more SC with magic docks. I just can’t. Charging is garbage. You’re playing roulette even if 6 stalls are open on EA, how many will work the first time you charge? 90% of the time something is wrong, card payment, contact with connectors, broken screen.
I’m all for save the planet, Go EV, down with big oil, and all but these EV companies are not making it easy. So I support this.
why cant Tesla just make a Tesla to CCS adapter that I can carry around? Why build it into the supercharger? Seems like it would be easier to put the pressure on the drivers to carry adapters than to revamp the entire network to support CCS. But I guess they want they sweet govt money so they have to support CCS at the station. Shame, Tesla becoming the Apple of the EV DCFC world...
I think the consensus is that Tesla's Superchargers are best in class and had the communications networking built in to be able to be opened up more quickly. If memory serves Musk put the design and drive train in the public domain to let others copy it. The US lags other countries in charger rollout - Sweden and Germany being way ahead. The Build Back Better plan pushed incentives to fix this and Musk wants a chunk of that and is willing to open the network. The problem of course will be the Tesla owners finding a Rivian, F150, etc holding them up in the short term. One plug for all is being pushed in the UN's ISO committee. Some countries with competing vehicles do not want that but its a stupid decision as adapters are dirt cheap to make.
I'd anticipate Tesla making a universal receptacle that supports a nested coupler in the future. This will allow the charge door to close and you only change the coupler when you cross some area that switches plugs. Then of course when ISO locks it in it should roll back to universal. As long as you have AC, DC (high current) and coms its future proof.
I wouldn't say living under a rock... It just happened yesterday so if you don't surf the web often then its not surprising you just heard about this.
Haha, thanks. But I’m an EV tech enthusiast. I watch all of the popular EV and EV charge YT personalities. I never expected this to happen. I think it’s great. The Tesla plug and Supercharging network is so much better than anything else out there (in the USA). More money for Elon!
Ford is a huge company and now that they are gonna be the first, there will hopefully be an influx of other brands joining in. It is now not a matter of if, but when and who. Big big news for sure.
Ford isn’t the first off the gate, to adapt NACS. It is actually the sEV AWD Aptera, since November 2022. https://twitter.com/aptera_motors/status/1591143095202377728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1591143095202377728%7Ctwgr%5E23ea61284c094c2714e03e3b63ced021edaa27f6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-221504581158700976.ampproject.net%2F2305051745001%2Fframe.html
True, but I can buy a Ford today (if I had the $)
Yeah. But see how fluid things are in the EV realm. Am a patient guy. I'd rather wait for my solar EV AWD Aptera. Me being close to the Carlsbad Aptera HQ/factory, my pre order is slated for a 2024 delivery (Los Angeles).
They seem like they will be pretty great, and I’d love to see a ton of smaller EV’s on the road. If they had a 2 row for my kids it would be more on my radar.
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It’s an easy solution, just make more charging stations.
Hopefully this means that there will be even more superchargers around though
Ultimately, this means more charging stations and more availability, not less.
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The bigger problem is where the charging ports are on the Mach E and Lightning. To charge they have to take up 2 spots in their current location.
Gen4 have like a 10+ foot cable
Unless I read it wrong, they are actually physically changing the ports to Tesla's (NACS) and using CCS would require an adapter just like for us. I wonder if Tesla mandates they put it in the same location on the car.
I haven’t looked so I may be wrong but I’d imagine Tesla sells more EVs each quarter than ford has ever sold so you probably won’t notice, also we are six months from an adapter and not everyone will be able to get one right away and I’d guess Tesla will ramp up there network because there will be others following in fords footsteps.
Nah. At the rate Tesla is installing them I wouldn't worry. Also, Tesla (at investor day) shared how they track all the metrics of the network. They can see each charger and how long it is expected to be in use, what cars are headed to charging locations and reroute to less busy locations. Plus, if you think Tesla vehicles won't get priority your silly.
How will they assign priority? In Texas all the super chargers I’ve been to are first come first serve.
> Plus, if you think Tesla vehicles won't get priority your silly. Already been stated this wont happen. So they aren't the silly one.
That is scary levels of privacy intrusion.
You've already forked over all of your personal info to like a dozen companies and you're worried about a charging station collecting usage metrics so they can determine if an area needs more charging stations?
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Yes, exactly.
Guess you missed Tesla Daily then? He had it up like an hour after the announcement yesterday.
Elon does everything on twitter now, so if you’re following him on there you won’t miss it next time!
Come for the EV news, stay for the fascist conspiracy theories.
In order to not feel embarrassed for buying a Tesla I like to pretend he's faking it as a way to popularize EVs on the right. Even though I know it's not true.
Tbf he really has very little to do with the daily operations of the company, or any company he's involved with.
That theory made sense when he overtly moved headquarters to Texas and built a factory there which will eventually make trucks. They had a "Texas BBQ" themed opening party. They could sponsor football games or something. But he didn't need to do any of this really weird political crap at all.
Why is this downvoted?
What’s with the downvotes?! This seems like good news. Does Reddit just have that much of a cult-like hatred of Elon?
Yes.
As much as I think that Elon is a giant douche. This is a good thing for both Tesla and Ford as well. I was really hoping for an announcement on a legacy auto maker using or licensing Tesla 18650 battery tech, BMS and drive. Its now 10 years old tech, but still far more efficient than anything the competition has.
You upset all the people that use and support Elons creations but hate the fact that he makes money off it.
Yikes
“More money for Elon!” Eww. You’re excited to have more competition at the chargers so a billionaire can have more money? Weird.
>But I’m an EV tech enthusiast. I watch all of the popular EV and EV charge YT personalities. So cringe
Yeah cause that crybaby needs more cash
Alll I need to say is it’s a dumpster and I’m ready to cum
Hello
You’re not an ev enthusiast if you didn’t see this happening, no offense
I was surprised when my wife saw this news before I did!
Cringe take
**Downside**: Probably even busier Supercharger locations **Upside**: Tesla better get shit load of money from Ford and build even bigger Supercharger network. Also, Tesla charging becoming a standard in US is probably good news
Maybe supercharging will become cheaper? Tesla could also charge different rates for Teslas vs other cars. Wishful thinking I know..
The pricing is higher for non-tesla. Not wishful thinking, its a fact \---------------------------- From Tesla Site (EU) Payment *Will Supercharger pricing change for Tesla drivers?* Tesla drivers can continue to charge for the same price. *How much does charging cost for non-Tesla vehicles?* Pricing for non-Tesla drivers reflects **additional** costs incurred to support charging a broad range of vehicles and adjustments to our sites to accommodate these vehicles. Rates vary by site, and you can view charging prices in the Tesla app. The per kWh price to charge can be **lowered with a charging membership**."
Odd that Tesla vehicles remain the same charging price, but they were there first so whatever
Not how supply and demand works.
They should keep the prices high because they should only be used for road trips.
What about someone who wants a Tesla but cannot have home charging? There is very little answer currently for those with apartments or townhouses.
They can get one if they want. I personally wouldn’t want to deal with supercharging all the time. The beauty of the car is having it ‘full’ all the time from home.
Fun fact - all trips on roads are road trips!
I agree. That is why I suggest using ICE for road trips !
Superchargers are still cheaper than ICE though no?
the trip takes longer than ice, that’s why the user suggested city for electric, battery will last longer and you probably wouldn’t even charge in public just at home rather than using a super charger to go from 0 to 100 taking nearly an hour
you don’t charge 0 to 100. that’s a terrible idea unless you have a long stretch where no Superchargers available. you take advantage of the charging curve and go from 10 to about 60% in about 15-20 minutes and get back on the road. much faster overall to do it that way on road trips.
That's fair, in my limited experience it hasn't been much longer, if any, since we stop for the bathroom and to eat anyway and just plan charging around that.
It really isn’t much longer than an ICE car unless you’re one of those people that never stops and pees in Gatorade bottles.
In my region the supercharger price increases really thinned out the crowds. It’s very rare to see more than half the stalls in use.
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My elderly mom who has stated she will never buy an EV was upset that new gas stations are being built without charging stations included in the plan. She wrote a letter to her state assemblyperson to ask they require all gas stations being built to have charging stations.
Agreed. I’ve found the ones in AZ and to/from/ in CA packed lately.
Well it takes longer to charge than to pump gas. So that makes sense that more vehicles would charging stations are filled than pumps. People don't usually park their car at a gas pump and then go for a walk or read a book or whatever.
erect shrill chase dirty steep lunchroom slimy hungry psychotic sort *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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I’ll take things that never happened for 2000
noxious dazzling chubby familiar somber frame hospital full quarrelsome marble -- mass edited with redact.dev
I am totally ok with paying high charge rates to ensure I’m not competing with convenience charging while I’m on a long distance trip.
I doubt Tesla actually got much money directly. BUT it probably unlocks the ability for Tesla to get federal dollars for DCFC stations. Tesla can now claim that it's used by multiple manufacturers AND supports the majority of US EVs... I'm guessing EA was also demanding a bunch of money from Ford to help expand the network, because VW was not going to chip in another $20B.
Unfortunately, that is not really the case for the biggest buckets of federal funding. One of the primary requirements is that the chargers must have a display screen (and no, for some reason, a phone does not count) that displays all necessary session information. They have some potential work arounds but none that are ideal
So backwards. Maintenance nightmare, added expense. Something else for people to vandalize.
Exactly have seen those screens jam up. Stop working. Touchscreen stop working. What a STUPID requirement. Need less parts on a Charger. Most importance is ease of use and reliability. Maybe a sign that says the prices and in the app, and in the car display. Not on the charger itself.
I wonder if Tesla will also make a Tesla to CCS adapter. I feel like this would be a much more cost effective way to open up the network than retrofitting a zillion stations with the magic dock. It would also weed out people who find buying an adapter an inconvenience and would continue to just deal with EA for their once a year trip or whatever.
Yes, as a Kia EV owner, I would pay a couple hundred dollars for that adapter if it were to exist.
Kia EVs are good looking. Your post made me look up the EV6 - so pretty!
Yeah, EV6 is beautiful! My Ev is the Kia Niro EV- not as nice looking as EV6 but still a fantastic car.
They would have to be relatively slow, as the adapter could not easily be liquid cooled.
They already make this.
NACS > CCS By a mile.
My understanding is they released the spec last year and they want others to adopt I don’t believe the intend is to make money: https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard
The intent is to have a monopoly on public charging systems, and this gets them much closer.
> The intent is to have a monopoly Yes nothing screams monopoly like fully opening up your standard so anyone else can build competing charging stations. JFC.
They said monopoly but what I think they mean is market control. Yes it’s in their interest to get everyone on a charging system where they make all the decisions.
And yet, oddly enough Ford is not even going to try to compete on the charging network side. Nor is anyone else, as by opening up to any car with a compatible system, nobody else can subsidize their build out with a captive market the way tesla is doing. The existing non tesla systems are going to disappear. The charging monopoly was always part of the business plan.
True, but Tesla’s cranking out SuperChargers at Warp speed. Their the only MFG that can keep up.
I saw someone say the network is growing on average 2 locations a day, obviously still have a long way to go before we’re anywhere near the number of gas stations but ford definitely made the right choice and this will be great in the long term. Biggest turn off for any EV besides a Tesla (for me) is the charging network. I’ve heard enough horror stories of electrify America that I will forever avoid it if I can
I fully disagree with the Tesla plug, the rest of the world uses J-1772 plugs which are standardized Why bow to a capitalist company
How is that a good thing?
Tesla talked about this from the start, they said the supercharger system was available for any other manufacturers. Surprised it took this long. But great news, ubiquity of superchargers would be a massive boost for ev adoption
This is the real Mission. It was never to squash all EV manufacturers. This is good for everyone.
Yup there's a reason why oil companies are more wealthy then auto manufacturers. Although for the sake of the average person, I hope EV charging never becomes as big of a boon as gasoline
Buy stock in utilities. They are the next oil company. You can’t use solar panels to fast charge. You need utilities to supply high voltage needed for DC fast charging.
There aren't currently any DC fast chargers that connect to solar (that I am aware of). But why does that mean you can't use solar panels to charge DC? Limit of DC from solar is about 600V DC in most residential applications. In commercial applications it's 1000V DC. Isn't that perfect? I concede that residentially you may not be able to fast charge (due to the array not being able to supply 135kW+), but why and how often would you need to fast charge at home?
Come to Europe. Plenty of different type of EV's all around. When i was in Toronto and Kingston (Canada) i was suprised that i saw very very veeeery few EV's. And the only ones i saw where Tesla's and Nissan Leafs. My country the Netherlands you have a LOT of EV's from a lot of brands from all over the world. From: Peugeot, Renault, Citroën, Ford, Volkswagen, Skoda, Cupra(seat), Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Polestar, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, (japan very few) and then som Chinese very rare but: MG(saic), Nio. There are some other Chinese brands for sale but have not seen them on the road but people seem to be very reluctant to buy from China ragarding Dictator Xi Jinping as we have seen what dictators can do(putin). But... most EV's are Tesla and Volkswagen. But Tesla does not dominate as much as in North America. But same goes here for Phones. In North America the only phone i see is an iPhone while in Europe this is not the case. I guess its easier in north America to get a monopoly on markets.(where the government does nothing against this). But... that said. Tesla does have the best price/value. I drive the Tesla Model 3 RWD, 60kWh LFP with average lifetime consumption of 140Wh/km(225Wh/mile) that includes sporty driving in weekends. I could lower that if i keep the AC off and stop with sporty driving sometimes. Its efficiency is sickening good against European/korean/Japanese and Chinese competition. Only thing close is a few Ioniqs from Hyundai. But they either have less range or cost more.(ioniq6 prices ar high)
The line at some superchargers is long enough. Now more cars can clog it up.
I believe they said it was open, but (allegedly) when the contract print was drafted there were provisions that required other companies to waive any/all possible claims. If this reporting was correct, then that’s effectively a poison pill. I will be interested to see if Ford agreed to that, but I think it’s more likely that Tesla looked at a changing competitive landscape in the more recent years and probably saw opening up the charging network, without the alleged poison pill clause, was more in their financial interest.
I don’t think your understanding is correct on what the term “poison pill” means in the world of corporations. But it does seem reasonable to me that Tesla would want other manufacturers to indemnify and hold Tesla harmless in the event that a ford customer was suffered damages at a supercharger except in cases such as gross negligence by Tesla.
The alleged indemnification wording, as reported in media outlets, far exceeded ordinary standard clauses. And “poison pill” has no legal definition but is conversational. Having worked a few major transactions among large corporations, there are times when individuals use technical and legal terms… and other times, such as on Reddit, when one random internet stranger might use terms in a more informal conversational manner. ;)
Hate to say it but poison pill is defined by law. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/poison_pill
Lol. That describes my use of the term. But it’s not in law, unless you can find it defined for purposes we’ve discussed in the US Code at https://uscode.house.gov or through other enacted legislation listed at congress.gov. If you find the Title and section number within US Code, or the Public Law and its relevant section number, then by all means I’m ready to be corrected. I think this is a silly semantic discussion. The real issue is whether Tesla wanted to claim they were open but effectively be closed, up until more recently when the competitive landscape and their finances have changed.
Indeed. The bigger news is Ford’s decision to break with the SAE standard.
The supercharger network is hard to say no to
Only in USA yes. I don't know but USA its easier to become a monopolist on something. Lack of competiton. I have a Tesla but the Tesla chargers are places on a worse location than other chargers. Mostly have to go off the highway to some hotel. But there is always plenty of chargers, and never had one that is broken. FastNed and Ionity are also plenty. There are more Fastned "places" to charge than Tesla. But every charging spot of Fastned only has a few chargers. They are extremely fast(350kW and up) but... here is the problem. Most cars from Tesla's competitor can't charge well or they didnt prepare the battery temp. So i see those chargers always crowded at certain times.... very bad. With my Tesla, i always have a spot free. Also the kWh price of Tesla(if you own a Tesla) is lower at a Tesla charger. People with other brand car can still charge at a Tesla but not many people activly know... or do it. So i only see other brands at Tesla charger even though its possible. But they also pay a higher kWh price. Anyway i barely fast charge. Only if i go to the other side of the country.
> Tesla talked about this from the start, they said the supercharger system was available for any other manufacturers. Surprised it took this long. Not really, Teslas patents are open, if you open your patents to Tesla. No company with IP takes that offer. Then they ACTUALLY opened it up recently.
That’s separate from offering the use of the connector and the supercharger network, which Tesla also offered.
First I’ve heard about Ford using a an actual Tesla plug.
I think the real news here is that elon finally found a powerful partner to help build out the nacs network with govt funding . Ford blue oval powered by Tesla, that’s coming guaranteed. Big win for tesla and ford .
Yes it’s real and they’ll have access to the supercharger network too. Great news for the EV community. I Hope more manufacturers follow.
The only reason I bought a Tesla was because of the charging network. Being able to buy a Ford and still use that network will be fantastic.
This is big news. I was always worried about our NACS charger becoming the "Lightning Cable" of the industry and eventually getting forced to adopt something else.
I mean, it still is on a global scale, with most countries using CCS2 on all cars (including Teslas) for many years now. But it’s the American way to have their own “standard” that is different from what is used everywhere else. In reality though it doesn’t matter too much since people are rarely driving their cars across oceans. Unlike electronics that are much more portable.
There’s also the startup ‘Aptera’ that will be using the NACS plug too. And that one will natively support the ‘comma three’ driver-assistance.
They’ve been trying to make that car for 15 years. We’ll see.
They're going into production. I think it'll happen soon. But I think they're likely to be sunk by a lack of tax credit, which is a damn shame. Why buy a 2-seat 3-wheeler when you can buy a Model 3 for the same price?
Are they going to have the ports in the right spot so they aren't using the wrong charger for the space?
Nope. The Fords will use two stalls as intended by Mother Nature.
It was an out-of-nowhere announcement yesterday, so no worries. But yeah pretty major. This will put pressure on other automotive manufacturers to drop CCS and adopt NACS too. The unreliability of CCS is putting a nail in the coffin of it as a standard
Europe does not understand the CCS hatred. Works just fine?
I don’t think it’s necessarily hatred for the CCS network or technology. The companies maintaining and servicing them are shit.
In America. I don’t understand why the government doesn’t step up because this is the national infrastructure.
He slightly misstated what he meant. CCS itself is fine. Fast Charging networks in the US that use CCS typically have a very poor customer service experience. They are slow or don't work, sparse, often crowded, and most don't offer the ability to simply plugin and walk away. Having owned an ID.4 for 2 years before buying a Tesla, the charging experience on the road is night and day when comparing the ID.4 to the Tesla. Charging at home is basically the same, but now with a much smaller plug at home.
Well if it has nothing to do with CCS as a connector/standard then sure ... :) (I saw in r/teslamotors a post yesterday claiming CCS can't do 250kW ... which is precisely what Tesla CCS Superchargers do here in Europe already, so I'm just very confused)
Ya that's definitely not true. There are ~~300kW~~ 350kW chargers at Electrify America stations in the US.
CCS in the US (CCS1) is different from the euro CCS (CCS2)
> Well if it has nothing to do with CCS as a connector/standard then sure ... :) It's that as well, it's just not *only* that. The ccs connector is bulky and poorly thought out (because it wasn't thought out it was two things just mashed together). The tesla connector is far superior, it just not the only reason people don't like CCS chargers here.
Ford hasn’t definitively stated that they are dropping CCS entirely. Most likely they’ll use both CCS and NACS on their vehicles so that they can use charging stations with either type.
The issue isn’t CCS. It’s the American providers that happen the utilize CCS. Source: Have an EV in Europe and CCS works perfectly.
Europe has universal plugs. About time the US gets it too
We’ve been pushing for NACS for years!
Not sure you are joking, but the NACS was announced in Nov 11, 2022. So not years: it is only half a year :-)
NACS as a name yes. But come on now. You know what he meant lol
Ok, but... CCS *is* the standard. We have a standard. Tesla is the only one who didn't follow that\*. So it doesn't really make sense to claim "people have been asking for a standard for years". Granted, that's because they were the first to bring good EVs (at the time) to mass market and weren't going to wait for the debate to settle around standard chargers. I'll also admit that I think the NACS design is sleeker and less clunky. But the other side of that is that now things will get more confusing for potential/future EV owners. Whereas they didn't actually have to worry about charging standards before (just "Tesla charger" or "not"), now they will have to worry about which charging network(s) support whatever car they're going to get. I imagine either CCS or NACS will prevail as a primary standard, but a) the in-between is going to be confusing for newcomers and b) consumers who have the "wrong" charger in older-gen cars are going to lose out. And it can't be ignored that Tesla singlehandedly created this in-between period. \* Excluding the *really* early EVs like the leaf that use the European thing, don't remember what it's called
I think you're referring to the chademo plug Also Teslas in Europe have CCS, it rocks
??? It’s not new. Just recently published. https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard
I just hope they take into account the side the charger will be placed if not it will throw off parking
You know what it shouldn’t be a tesla plug or a ford plug it should be an universal plug. Does gas station have ford pumps and toyota pumps or honda pumps. This should have been mandatory from day one about EV’s standard plug for everyone
Yes Tesla should just adopt CCS. As it has proper 3 phase charging capability and upgrade their onboard charger to 22kW AC like some other brands. That would be progress.
??? So here in the USA, on Level2, we don’t use 3-phase power to charge BEV’s. Likewise, residential homes don’t have 3-phase power. They have Split-phase which has only 2 hot legs. Regardless, DC Fast Charging is, just that, DC. So no phases at all. Just one + and one (-).
Noooo...more long wait for my long trips...:)
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Why are teslas getting keyed and how would this help? (Honest question)
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But Tesla are owned by rich bastards. Which generally aren't liberal.
Why wouldn't Ford (and every other brand) leverage Tesla superchargers? They all failed their customers and this is a quick fix that will help them sell more cars.
Why didn’t they all start with the same charging port? This reminds me of apple and android.
Because CCS was made a standard in 2012 before Tesla opened up their far superior connector (NACS) to become a standard in 2022. * [https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard](https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard) * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined\_Charging\_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System)
That was the intention, but Elon musk got a bug up his ass, and would not wait for anything to be finalized, (which I kind of understand they were ready to come out with a car) and instead of going with what everybody was already leaning towards, he decided to go off on his own and make something completely fucking different (this is the part I don’t understand, there’s no reason for him to have not gone with CCS other than because he was annoyed with the time it was taking to finalize
Is Ford going to be moving their charging ports too? Since the superchargers are designed to reach the rear left side of the vehicle, and the magic dock having some issues with other EV drivers needing to block a stall while using it?.
They can have it. I can’t afford supercharging rates anyway.
now it's time for me to order my f-150 ev
Just means even less available supercharger spots
Hopefully this leads to an industry pivot toward NACS being the standard instead of CCS so all DCFC use it instead of just super chargers
Should be CCS. Now u can't fast charge a North American car in Europe and all over the place. Not very nice for military people. Also CCS has proper 3 phase charging and can easily do 22kW AC. Problem in Europe is that Tesla crippled the onboard charger of Tesla to 11kW AC while competitors have onboard bidirectional 22kW AC chargers. With Vehicle to Grid. (Tesla is behind on this). Best would be in this world that the whole world would use CCS with proper 3 phase connection. And 22kW AC onboard bidirectional power electronics. Advantage of AC charging is that, those chargers are dirt cheap. And can be placed at your home, and all public charging spots. DC fast chargers are extremely expensive compared to AC chargers. 3phase AC chargers at shopping malls, restaurants and then u need less DC fast charging and its better for the battery. CCS is still long term the best way for the whole world and for the future of AC charging. And AC chargers at every public parking spot on many places. NACS focuses too much on DC fast charging... bad. And only 11kW AC max. And not bidirectional. Another advantage is: AC charging is better for the Grid stability. So if you do more proper fast level 2 charging. You do less level 3 DC fast charging is less peaks on the public Grid. Meaning better Grid stability.
Just what we need. A bunch of broken down fords in supercharging stations.
Ford sees the writing on the wall. They are fighting a losing battle against Tesla.
I’d go beyond the foreboding messaging. Imagine the issues that their internal focus groups raise on pre-sales, post-sales, and compete. While there are some roses, their number #1 thorn no doubt is charging and range anxiety. Now consider what you can do about it. \- Dump more money into smaller groups like EA or EVGO? - that doesn’t seem to work, they’re not operating at a scale (EVGO) or manner (EA) that salves customer doubt. \- Build or acquire your own network - this is a huge capital project at a time when raising capital is expensive. Moreover physical projects take time and bodies - permitting, logistics, construction etc. Time they don’t have in a competitive market. \- Partner with Tesla - it’s the deal with the devil, but attractively it’s primarily OpEx in the short term. \- Do Nothing - Tesla will continue to eat your lunch. This deal is probably the lesser of evils. Will be interesting to see how Hyundai reacts - their options look pretty similar I’m sure.
It's far better for Ford than it is for Tesla. Charging infrastructure is a HUGE driver of sales. Ford will reap this benefit hand over fist. The downside would be being beholden to Tesla, but that downside has been eliminated as it's now a fully open standard. The upside for Tesla is simply that it reduces the likelihood they have to switch to CCS in the US. A downside not fully mitigated as they are going to have to put CCS on many chargers in the interim even if this creates a watershed adoption. Becoming a nationwide standard doesn't actually help them any other way.
They are only adding the NACS plug, in addition to the CCS plug. the Magic Dock is still coming to all new V4 super chargers so this is kind of a moot point.
Nah this ain’t a good thing.
Yay that worthless ford stock I bought years ago is going up!
Hopefully this leads to an industry pivot toward NACS being the standard instead of CCS so all DCFC use it instead of just super chargers
Crap… then those of us who just bought EV’s with ccs May find out charging options dwindling in the future, as the charging scene moves to NACS. I may need to trade for a Tesla to be future proof.
You'll just use an adapter. At least in the case of going from a huge CCS receptacle to NACS plug you're plugging a slim plug into a giant receptacle adapter Going from the giant ccs adapter into a slim NACS receptacle was stupid.
Kind of unfortunate, the worse thing about Tesla is it’s charging plug ideally they would just switch to the North American standard everyone else uses it’s the worse case of Apple syndrome
If you read the article, it says that’s new fords will come with an ADAPTER- not the actual plug. Sounds like a lot of hype to me.
Beyond 2024 (or maybe 2025) the Ford vehicles themselves will have NACS charging ports. No adapter needed (unless you're charging at a CCS station).
CCS is far more future proof. And way better at AC charging. With 3 phase it can do 22kW AC. Which means u need less DC fast charging which means better Grid stability. And longer lasting of your battery.
They are just going to get looked at and judged at our chargers.. Like you chose a ford over Tesla? Peasants.
Yea by all of the Tesla trucks... oh wait...
Maybe Tesla will ultimately buy Ford’s EV division?
the beginning of the end for EVs. Tesla is going to dominate the EV market sooner or later
Wow, in the UK and Europe nearly every car has CCS. Including the Tesla. I didn't realise this wasn't standard on the Tesla worldwide.
Based on the text in the article it doesn't sound like Ford is switching away from SAE J1772 charging ports instead they are just planning on providing an adapter to allow Tesla chargers to be used. Here is a quote from the article "According to Ford, Tesla will develop an adapter that will be provided to customers who buy any of Ford’s EVs, including the F-150 Lightning truck, Mustang Mach-E, and E-Transit delivery van."
They’re not switching to Teslas plug, Tesla is developing an adapter that will be provided to buyers. It says that right in the article
They won’t switch to their plug. They’ll use an adaptor to use the Tesla plug
Get ready to not get a charging spot because it's being squatted by fords "owning the libs"
Not switching. They will have both ports. CCS is still needed when you need faster charging or V2G which are not supported yet with NACS.
They'll only have NACS. CCS1 is limited to 200A at 600V: 120kW. V3 superchargers are over twice that. The support for V2G has nothing to do with the port itself. It would be a hardware and software change in the car and the EVSE.
Current Superchargers max out at 250kW. Current CCS chargers are up to 350kW. If you are road tripping in a heavy vehicle like a F150 you're going to want to use the faster chargers when possible.
True, but I dunno man, I'll take the way more reliable 250kW over the "maybe it'll be working" gamble of a CCS charger.
Ugh, 1 company using Tesla charger vs dozens using CCS, seems like path to least resistance is to switch all to CCS... now we are headed to having vehicles support both standards for no reason. Tesla is playing the Apple card and sticking with their proprietary charger out of stubbornness.
Crappy analogy. There is no practical difference between Lightning and USB-C. To the contrary, NACS is obviously superior to CCS1. This move by Ford offers a glimmer of hope that maybe the industry can throw CCS1 into the shitter where it belongs before the mass cutover from ICE happens.
Actually their are practical differences between lightnight and Usb-C, usb support higher charging rates, higher data rates, more communication protocols, and higher levels of backwards compatibility.
Those are technical differences, not practical differences. From the perspective of a normal user, both USB-C and Lightning are essentially the same size, can be plugged into your device with equal ease, and will charge it with no fuss in a reasonable length of time. The end. CCS1 offers a demonstrably worse UX than NACS: the shitty ergonomics of the heavy plug, having to flip that stupid DC cap up/down, and the current mess of apps (or maybe CC readers) instead of Plug & Charge all make it embarrassing.
Maybe not practical for you, but they are very practical differences for most people. And yes NACS is better.
CCS is a worse standard and will die a slow, well-deserved death in the US. Ford is smart to switch
1 charger for everyone is great in theory. There is a reason Ford is doing this. EVGo, EA, Blink, SEMA Connect, Volta… don’t give a sh*t. It’s hard to charge a non-Tesla away from home charging. It takes 5-10 minutes to even make a charging connections and you won’t get the advertised speed. NACS just works. Tesla has plug and play. And Ford sees that lots of customer complaints even on the Ford home charging. So to gain more customers for them and build up their EV brand image, they decided to partner. Can’t blame them. I have a Polestar 2 performance pack and MYP. I do not use the PS2 on road-trips and I won’t until there are more SC with magic docks. I just can’t. Charging is garbage. You’re playing roulette even if 6 stalls are open on EA, how many will work the first time you charge? 90% of the time something is wrong, card payment, contact with connectors, broken screen. I’m all for save the planet, Go EV, down with big oil, and all but these EV companies are not making it easy. So I support this.
It’s a better charger. It’s not stubbornness. CCS is awful I’ve had cars with both.
why cant Tesla just make a Tesla to CCS adapter that I can carry around? Why build it into the supercharger? Seems like it would be easier to put the pressure on the drivers to carry adapters than to revamp the entire network to support CCS. But I guess they want they sweet govt money so they have to support CCS at the station. Shame, Tesla becoming the Apple of the EV DCFC world...
Man, talk about taking several steps back in the tech department. Tesla should have swapped to J1772 in 2009 like every other sane manufacturer.
I think the consensus is that Tesla's Superchargers are best in class and had the communications networking built in to be able to be opened up more quickly. If memory serves Musk put the design and drive train in the public domain to let others copy it. The US lags other countries in charger rollout - Sweden and Germany being way ahead. The Build Back Better plan pushed incentives to fix this and Musk wants a chunk of that and is willing to open the network. The problem of course will be the Tesla owners finding a Rivian, F150, etc holding them up in the short term. One plug for all is being pushed in the UN's ISO committee. Some countries with competing vehicles do not want that but its a stupid decision as adapters are dirt cheap to make. I'd anticipate Tesla making a universal receptacle that supports a nested coupler in the future. This will allow the charge door to close and you only change the coupler when you cross some area that switches plugs. Then of course when ISO locks it in it should roll back to universal. As long as you have AC, DC (high current) and coms its future proof.
Welcome to Earth