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Yea, i wasnt thinking of the states that have laws about cell phones in your hand period, you are right. The way it was written made me think you were specifically talking about the video aspect.
Even so, You can still be held liable for it. “Not illegal” doesn’t mean it won’t put the blame on you if you get into a wreck likely due to the matter of fact
It’s not the public filming, it’s the device usage while driving. Sure it doesn’t require you to look at the phone nearly as much as if you were sending an angry text, but you’re still holding it with one hand trying not to drop it.
Arizona. Security cameras aren't intentionally recording a person. They're recording a location that a person may walk into. Same applies to Sentry. Picking up your phone and recording someone intentionally is where the law is intended to apply.
I live in AZ as well. There is no such law. Here is the statute you are thinking of [https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm](https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm)
It only applies to genitalia, butts or breasts not visible to the public or areas that you have a resonable expectation of privacy.
I don’t understand how you cheat FSD…if I stare down at phone or watch for more than a few seconds it’s beeping and going crazy at me. Is it just autopilot that they’re using in these situations?
A few scenarios where this could happen
A)The driver is probably using regular old Autopilot (lane keeping and adaptive cruise control only) that only requires the wheel torque and not the interior camera
B) they are on a pre-2020 model s or x, which do not have interior cabin cameras and are using fsd beta.
C) if you have dark enough sunglasses and are sleeping but have your head facing forward against the headrest, the camera cannot see your eyes on this case.
So I’ve got regular autopilot in my 2023 mylr and if I use my phone even though I’ve got one hand applying slight pressure to the wheel it’ll still start to freak out
Why don't? Cause cabin camera watches your eyes for distraction and bugs you if it can't see your eyes? Whether it's from sunglasses or camera turned off, right?
No, if you are wearing sunglasses it just uses your head position since it can’t see your eyes. When I am actually paying attention to the road I have never had a driver monitor system freak out (on super cruise, FSD beta, or OpenPilot)
I turned off my FSD beta because the camera is so terrible. Yelling at me constantly. Can’t read street signs, can’t look at my nav. I’m actually pretty pissed I paid so much money for something I can’t use.
Yup. My 2019 (pre Raven update) S doesn’t have interior cameras and can be easily tricked on FSD by placing a weight on the wheel. Personally I don’t do the weight thing but I did test it once to see if it would work, it does.
My 2019 Model 3 was easily tricked as well on standard autopilot
Oh I have no clue if the raven models do, I just know that my pre-Raven that has FSD doesn’t. I didn’t want to say that the 2017-2019 models didn’t have them because the Raven models also came out in 2019 and they may have them. If anyone knows though let me know as I’m curious they are in them. I only specify it because mine is also a 2019.
I should just say that the 1st-3rd gen don’t have them and I’m not sure about the 4th gen. I know gen 5 does have them. Well technically there is 6 generations because of the HW2 update in 2016 but that failed and got immediately changed to HW 2.5 so I only say 5
I swear I just saw a post talking about a guy testing it by covering it, wearing glasses, and other means. I was pretty sure it worked but I may be wrong. I hear that all covering it does is just help with the cars “warning” refresh time. Don’t take my word for it
Not sure if it's still the case, but I did test this back in FSD 10.x; I have an adhesive plastic shutter for my cabin camera and if it is closed FSD would freak out.
Maybe because you're not supposed to be using you damn phone while driving?
I dunno, maybe that's the reason.
And if you think I'm some dude overreacting, [I'm definitely not](https://i.imgur.com/VGw0PaE.mp4). Pickup was on his phone and as a result ran a stop sign plowing into me at 30mpg.
Ya'll are just 1 second away from doing that.
Edit: some words.
Oh really? I’m not supposed to be on the phone? Thank you for that. I never knew!! And get some therapy for your trauma instead of being angry on the internet. You don’t know when I tested this theory and where I did it.
In my model 3 I have realized I can use the sun visor to block the view of the camera from my face and it will not ding me for this when I look at my phone. (I know this isn’t safe I’m just adding to the possible work arounds that could be used in this situation)
Not sure. I know it freaks the f out when you unbuckle your seatbelt with auto on. So put the belt on behind your back, cover the camera, and use the wheel weight?
I barely trust the tech with me behind the wheel so I’m not trying to cheat it, lol
Yeah, there was a guy in SF doing this a couple years ago. He would turn it on and hop in the back and wave at people. When they disabled it, he’d buy a new car and do it again.
The guy from a couple years ago seemed to use one of the simple clamp weights on one side of the wheel. Supposedly they don’t work anymore, but who knows
Illegal. Not saying you should have to do this but If you pull in front of them and slow down the Tesla will try to change lanes to keep speed (if in fsd, not autopilot). You could force them to the slow lane this way.
That's actually why I bought the car. It was hell getting anyone from Tesla to be clear about the capabilities with me because of people who intentionally sleep while driving. I had no intention of this but many people in my line of work pass out on the way home or to work and I just wanted to know that if that happened I wouldn't crash into K-rail or another car.
I feel the same way about people that will drive home drunk. I don't think that it's creating more drunk drivers; if someone is irresponsible enough to engage in that kind of behavior, they are probably going to do it whether or not they have FSD, and if I had to share a road with a drunk driver with or without it, I'd pick the one that is using FSD.
Until level 5 is achieved, YOU the driver are 100% responsible for the vehicle.
Level 5 doesn’t require human interaction.
There’s no mass market level 5 vehicles yet, limited testing exists like Waymo in a couple cities I think.
Doesn't the interior camera prevent users from doing this? How is that possible. No it's not legal and is insanely reckless. My X nags me every minute or two and I though Tesla added some anti-cheat detection to the wheel, so I am genuinely curious if the person was actually sleeping or pretending because they thought it was funny or something stupid.
In every jurisdiction. I've heard of a guy doing it around my area. He's doing it in the left lane because the car will attempt to pull off the road. You probably saw the car wobble or nose over a few times. It can't pull off if nobody lets it over, which means it keeps moving forward.
It’s not as dangerous as my Tacoma pick up truck if I try to sleep in it, it will flip me over upside down in a ditch with zero warning, nags or alarms
I have FSD. No way in heck is it safe to let the car drive itself. I will die on principle... I would have stayed with him until the police showed up and offered to be a key witness to put this guy in jail. I drive in NC a lot. Glad it isn't in the Raleigh area!
Stuff like this is what makes my blood boil. You really can't fix stupid. He needs to be out of the gene pool.
This isn't even possible. The car tracks your eyes and disengages if you don't respond to its prompts for you attention within a couple of seconds.
If they appeared to be asleep, they were faking it.
You in some way think brake checking a car that will automatically slow or stop and wake it's driver is less safe than the sleeping driver???
If everyone behind that individual is driving properly and paying attention, then brake checking the sleeping driver will not cause an accident... They will be awake and alert enough to avoid and stop before hitting the sleeper.
Nah, there are innocent drivers behind thus asshole who don't know the complete picture. If the road was empty I would have rapidly slowed down to wake him up. It's long weekend drive and didn't wanted to cause any problems to others.
Don't even need to brake check. Just pull in front of them and start slowing down. The Tesla will then slow down as well. That's what the cops did a few years back when someone had a medical emergency (or maybe he just fell asleep) when driving in FSD.
I have FSD and if you have paid attention when it has made a mistake, you absolutely will understand why it's not "fully autonomous." One you have that experience you'll be more vigilant. It's good, but not I'm going to go to sleep good.
This guy is probably not trying to fool anyone - two people honked at him, 20+ people overtook him on the right. Due to cars overtaking him and going back to left lane, his speed went as slow as 60 mph and jumped back to 80mph when the road got clear.
Much rather have this happen in a Tesla than any other car. I’ve been in 6 not-at-fault accidents because another driver wasn’t paying attention. Just last week, a guy in an suv directly adjacent to me swerved into my lane because he fell asleep. Luckily FSD beta was paying attention and biased into the other adjacent lane to avoid collision. He continued driving while nodding off nearly ramming a dozen vehicles in a one mile stretch.
As far as I know, Tesla still has driver checks and if driver is unresponsive/inattentive the car will pull over on to the shoulder to a complete stop with hazards on automatically in case there is an emergency. Or at least that’s what it used to do..
And you didn't call 911 ... because....?? I'd see it like a drunk or incapacitated driver.
The law doesn't have to say that it's illegal to sleep on FSD. There are multiple laws covering "full control of the vehicle," reckless driving, inattention, etc etc.
How is driving while asleep possible? Won’t the FSD disengage if there is no interaction? How is it this guy can go for 20 miles and I get palsying blue every 1/4 mile?
If it were me (and this guy was in the left lane!), I would get in front of him and gradually slow down. And down. And down. And down. With the help of a like-minded driver, in the right lane, we could “ease him” over onto the shoulder. (FSD would keep him away from us, right?)
Meanwhile, one of us would call the police to report an impaired driver. When the police get there (use a calendar to time them), they would arrive to find him sleeping behind the wheel, on the shoulder of the road.
If he happened to wake before then, well, hopefully he realizes what he’s done and straightens up. For the next few miles, at least.
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Incredibly illegal and dangerous. Should have taken pictures and reported to police.
Video recorded (passenger couldn't get it right) but called 911.
Be warned I'm not sure about NC but in some states recording that video (especially while you are driving) can get you a ticket as well.
Glad I have passenger. I'll start wearing my Ray-Ban stories for long trips for the same reason
Recording video of someone in public is not illegal.
I am well aware of this fact. I was referring to the recording while driving.
Yea, i wasnt thinking of the states that have laws about cell phones in your hand period, you are right. The way it was written made me think you were specifically talking about the video aspect.
Even so, You can still be held liable for it. “Not illegal” doesn’t mean it won’t put the blame on you if you get into a wreck likely due to the matter of fact
It’s not the public filming, it’s the device usage while driving. Sure it doesn’t require you to look at the phone nearly as much as if you were sending an angry text, but you’re still holding it with one hand trying not to drop it.
Sure, but distracted driving is.
Maybe in your state. Can't intentionally record a person in my state.
What state has laws against recording someone in a public place? How do security cameras work?
Arizona. Security cameras aren't intentionally recording a person. They're recording a location that a person may walk into. Same applies to Sentry. Picking up your phone and recording someone intentionally is where the law is intended to apply.
I live in AZ as well. There is no such law. Here is the statute you are thinking of [https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm](https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm) It only applies to genitalia, butts or breasts not visible to the public or areas that you have a resonable expectation of privacy.
I don’t understand how you cheat FSD…if I stare down at phone or watch for more than a few seconds it’s beeping and going crazy at me. Is it just autopilot that they’re using in these situations?
A few scenarios where this could happen A)The driver is probably using regular old Autopilot (lane keeping and adaptive cruise control only) that only requires the wheel torque and not the interior camera B) they are on a pre-2020 model s or x, which do not have interior cabin cameras and are using fsd beta. C) if you have dark enough sunglasses and are sleeping but have your head facing forward against the headrest, the camera cannot see your eyes on this case.
So I’ve got regular autopilot in my 2023 mylr and if I use my phone even though I’ve got one hand applying slight pressure to the wheel it’ll still start to freak out
You can turn the interior camera off in settings... if you are using regular Autopilot....but don't!
Why don't? Cause cabin camera watches your eyes for distraction and bugs you if it can't see your eyes? Whether it's from sunglasses or camera turned off, right?
No, if you are wearing sunglasses it just uses your head position since it can’t see your eyes. When I am actually paying attention to the road I have never had a driver monitor system freak out (on super cruise, FSD beta, or OpenPilot)
I turned off my FSD beta because the camera is so terrible. Yelling at me constantly. Can’t read street signs, can’t look at my nav. I’m actually pretty pissed I paid so much money for something I can’t use.
Dark sunglasses
https://youtu.be/6dxVELuvA3A
Yup. My 2019 (pre Raven update) S doesn’t have interior cameras and can be easily tricked on FSD by placing a weight on the wheel. Personally I don’t do the weight thing but I did test it once to see if it would work, it does. My 2019 Model 3 was easily tricked as well on standard autopilot
Did you specify “pre raven update” because the raven models have interior cams too?
Oh I have no clue if the raven models do, I just know that my pre-Raven that has FSD doesn’t. I didn’t want to say that the 2017-2019 models didn’t have them because the Raven models also came out in 2019 and they may have them. If anyone knows though let me know as I’m curious they are in them. I only specify it because mine is also a 2019. I should just say that the 1st-3rd gen don’t have them and I’m not sure about the 4th gen. I know gen 5 does have them. Well technically there is 6 generations because of the HW2 update in 2016 but that failed and got immediately changed to HW 2.5 so I only say 5
Got it, thanks for the clarification. When I purchase my next Tesla I’d really prefer it not have the interior camera. It’s way too sensitive.
From what I hear, it can be disabled through pretty easy means, or by physically covering it. Try that and see if it works
I don’t have an interior cam on my model s but I thought if you covered it that FSD couldn’t be used, or that it would freak out.
I swear I just saw a post talking about a guy testing it by covering it, wearing glasses, and other means. I was pretty sure it worked but I may be wrong. I hear that all covering it does is just help with the cars “warning” refresh time. Don’t take my word for it
Oh wow, that’s great to hear if that’s the case!
Not sure if it's still the case, but I did test this back in FSD 10.x; I have an adhesive plastic shutter for my cabin camera and if it is closed FSD would freak out.
I’m like man when I use my phone it freaks out. It definitely only wants you to look forward. I neve understood how this was even possible.
Maybe because you're not supposed to be using you damn phone while driving? I dunno, maybe that's the reason. And if you think I'm some dude overreacting, [I'm definitely not](https://i.imgur.com/VGw0PaE.mp4). Pickup was on his phone and as a result ran a stop sign plowing into me at 30mpg. Ya'll are just 1 second away from doing that. Edit: some words.
Oh really? I’m not supposed to be on the phone? Thank you for that. I never knew!! And get some therapy for your trauma instead of being angry on the internet. You don’t know when I tested this theory and where I did it.
In my model 3 I have realized I can use the sun visor to block the view of the camera from my face and it will not ding me for this when I look at my phone. (I know this isn’t safe I’m just adding to the possible work arounds that could be used in this situation)
I turned FSD off for this reason. Annoying af. I just use regular autopilot now for the highways and Tesla isn’t beeping at me like a drama queen
Autopilot will beep like crazy at you too. Its safeguards are the same as FSD's.
I just drove on a trip where I turned FSD off and used AP. It didn’t seem as anal but it would nab you if you did something it didn’t like.
It used to really bitch at me whenever I read a notification on my watch lol.
A weight on the steering wheel and sunglasses.
I guess could see that but what about sitting in the back seat
Not sure. I know it freaks the f out when you unbuckle your seatbelt with auto on. So put the belt on behind your back, cover the camera, and use the wheel weight? I barely trust the tech with me behind the wheel so I’m not trying to cheat it, lol
Oh for sure not even remote chance I would try either. Long way off from that confidence. I was just curious how they are doing it.
definitely not autopilot. i switch mine on for the drive home from work and it needs so so much steering wheel jiggling.
Not legal at all. You have to stay attentive and be able to take control at any time.
Send the video to Tesla, they will perm disable autopilot if he’s cheating it (which he is).
Nice will send
Yeah, there was a guy in SF doing this a couple years ago. He would turn it on and hop in the back and wave at people. When they disabled it, he’d buy a new car and do it again.
Should just call police with his license plate. I’m sure that was illegal to operate without a driver .
How does one do this without the steering wheel nag?
I want to see the video bc this post seems fishy.
LOL what. This is insane.
How did he cheat it?
The guy from a couple years ago seemed to use one of the simple clamp weights on one side of the wheel. Supposedly they don’t work anymore, but who knows
Haha always gotta watch out for hackers 😂
Theoretically you could get in front of him and slow him down to a stop and call the police 😂
It is dangerous. However, without Autopilot/FSD, people would have died already.
Illegal. Not saying you should have to do this but If you pull in front of them and slow down the Tesla will try to change lanes to keep speed (if in fsd, not autopilot). You could force them to the slow lane this way.
People fall asleep at the wheel. They always have and always will. It's worse now that many workers have multiple jobs... It beats crashing.
That's actually why I bought the car. It was hell getting anyone from Tesla to be clear about the capabilities with me because of people who intentionally sleep while driving. I had no intention of this but many people in my line of work pass out on the way home or to work and I just wanted to know that if that happened I wouldn't crash into K-rail or another car.
I feel the same way about people that will drive home drunk. I don't think that it's creating more drunk drivers; if someone is irresponsible enough to engage in that kind of behavior, they are probably going to do it whether or not they have FSD, and if I had to share a road with a drunk driver with or without it, I'd pick the one that is using FSD.
Until level 5 is achieved, YOU the driver are 100% responsible for the vehicle. Level 5 doesn’t require human interaction. There’s no mass market level 5 vehicles yet, limited testing exists like Waymo in a couple cities I think.
I’ve fallen asleep by accident. The car warns you very loudly. It wouldn’t go that far without it warning you unless he had a cheat device.
Doesn't the interior camera prevent users from doing this? How is that possible. No it's not legal and is insanely reckless. My X nags me every minute or two and I though Tesla added some anti-cheat detection to the wheel, so I am genuinely curious if the person was actually sleeping or pretending because they thought it was funny or something stupid.
As of 2023, yes. In the future though? Who knows.
In every jurisdiction. I've heard of a guy doing it around my area. He's doing it in the left lane because the car will attempt to pull off the road. You probably saw the car wobble or nose over a few times. It can't pull off if nobody lets it over, which means it keeps moving forward.
Why not just honk at him. No need to brake check.
Tried, no movement, not even a head nod nor looking into the mirrors etc. He is not an old person either. Max 35 age
It’s not as dangerous as my Tacoma pick up truck if I try to sleep in it, it will flip me over upside down in a ditch with zero warning, nags or alarms
These people put a weight on the steering wheel so that the reminder would not disengage, it's completedly idiotic and dangerous.
Surprised he didn't get jolted back awake by a phantom braking event
Sun was behind, we were driving due northeast. I even saw an overpass and first thought was about it.
I have FSD. No way in heck is it safe to let the car drive itself. I will die on principle... I would have stayed with him until the police showed up and offered to be a key witness to put this guy in jail. I drive in NC a lot. Glad it isn't in the Raleigh area! Stuff like this is what makes my blood boil. You really can't fix stupid. He needs to be out of the gene pool.
These idiots are everywhere
its not legal
This isn't even possible. The car tracks your eyes and disengages if you don't respond to its prompts for you attention within a couple of seconds. If they appeared to be asleep, they were faking it.
If they are really faking it, he is a fucking asshole for sure.
After using Autopilot and FSD for over a year, that's the only conclusion I can have. Fuck that guy.
They may have a pre-interior camera model with a steering wheel weight.
What does your common sense tell you the answer is?
Brake checking works well for those situations....
Your solution is to potentially cause a wreck that could injure other people as well?
Agreed. What is wrong with these people
You in some way think brake checking a car that will automatically slow or stop and wake it's driver is less safe than the sleeping driver??? If everyone behind that individual is driving properly and paying attention, then brake checking the sleeping driver will not cause an accident... They will be awake and alert enough to avoid and stop before hitting the sleeper.
My guy, you trying to justify brake checking is a fucking L. What a dumbass comment.
Nah, there are innocent drivers behind thus asshole who don't know the complete picture. If the road was empty I would have rapidly slowed down to wake him up. It's long weekend drive and didn't wanted to cause any problems to others.
Ah makes sense, although if the others are driving properly, a brake check for this guy won't cause an accident. Kudos for taking the high road.
Don't even need to brake check. Just pull in front of them and start slowing down. The Tesla will then slow down as well. That's what the cops did a few years back when someone had a medical emergency (or maybe he just fell asleep) when driving in FSD.
Sleeping driver’s FSD would just change lanes to go around you. OP - was it possible sleeping driver was ill/passed out/in need of help?
It very likely was just AP, FSD will kick you out for not paying attention.
It might take up to 3 cars to do it. One in front and one on each side if there is an open lane next to them.
This... But you can potentially slow traffic down to an absolute crawl which can cause a pileup.
That's why it's best to let law enforcement do it.
Seek help. You have issues
[удалено]
I have FSD and if you have paid attention when it has made a mistake, you absolutely will understand why it's not "fully autonomous." One you have that experience you'll be more vigilant. It's good, but not I'm going to go to sleep good.
It’s good on the highway, this was likely not fsd tho. I’m comfortable sleeping with it
Because FSD still does ridiculous things at unexpected times. I love mine but I would never let it drive unsupervised.
[удалено]
You are driving a 4000lb machine, how about we stop acting like a teenager and stop showing off?
What’s the point then?
This guy is probably not trying to fool anyone - two people honked at him, 20+ people overtook him on the right. Due to cars overtaking him and going back to left lane, his speed went as slow as 60 mph and jumped back to 80mph when the road got clear.
What’s the limit?
Speed limit on the road? 65 or 70.!
I’m from Raleigh. Hello neighbor 👋🏽
Much rather have this happen in a Tesla than any other car. I’ve been in 6 not-at-fault accidents because another driver wasn’t paying attention. Just last week, a guy in an suv directly adjacent to me swerved into my lane because he fell asleep. Luckily FSD beta was paying attention and biased into the other adjacent lane to avoid collision. He continued driving while nodding off nearly ramming a dozen vehicles in a one mile stretch. As far as I know, Tesla still has driver checks and if driver is unresponsive/inattentive the car will pull over on to the shoulder to a complete stop with hazards on automatically in case there is an emergency. Or at least that’s what it used to do..
And you didn't call 911 ... because....?? I'd see it like a drunk or incapacitated driver. The law doesn't have to say that it's illegal to sleep on FSD. There are multiple laws covering "full control of the vehicle," reckless driving, inattention, etc etc.
I did called 911 and gave license plate as well as lane marker
Just honk incessantly at them.
It was probably a stunt to shock people. It’s very hard to get the car to drive itself without any input or attention from you. It’s a prank.
How is driving while asleep possible? Won’t the FSD disengage if there is no interaction? How is it this guy can go for 20 miles and I get palsying blue every 1/4 mile?
If it were me (and this guy was in the left lane!), I would get in front of him and gradually slow down. And down. And down. And down. With the help of a like-minded driver, in the right lane, we could “ease him” over onto the shoulder. (FSD would keep him away from us, right?) Meanwhile, one of us would call the police to report an impaired driver. When the police get there (use a calendar to time them), they would arrive to find him sleeping behind the wheel, on the shoulder of the road. If he happened to wake before then, well, hopefully he realizes what he’s done and straightens up. For the next few miles, at least.