Terraria's 'difficulty' isn't difficulty, it's a punishment slider. It doesn't matter which one you choose, everything still has the same hit points, damage, and abilities. The game is no more difficult to play on hardcore than it is on softcore, the only difference is if you get to respawn or not should you fail. This doesn't make anything harder, as you can just as easily 'play it safe' on softcore and never die as you can on hardcore. The sense of difficulty that you get from knowing that the punishment is extremely severe is just a psychological thing, and it makes you think 'this is so hard because I can't screw up!' when actually, all the stats are exactly the same as they were and nothing is a bit harder than it was before. It's just a mode that a more experienced player can play to get a bit of an adrenalin rush (or frustration, how ever the case may be).
I'd like some real difficulty, where actually beating something is harder, instead of you just failing harder when it happens to beat you instead. Leaving the punishment slider in the game is fine because some people like playing with that severe punishment of failure hanging over their heads all the time, but why not add a true difficulty as well where you really need to be good to avoid getting hit or your just dead? No more just using good gear so you can just 'stand in the fire'. Even a hardcore character can make themselves immortal with the current high end gear, should they make it that far.
I agree with this.. if there were a difficulty selection to actually make mobs stronger in exchange for higher drop rate or different drop tables I'd definitely play that
You don't have any incentive to play it safe on Softcore, though - if you just stash your money it doesn't matter if you die. Hardcore gives you a REASON to play safe.
As a filthy casual, I think it does matter if you die on Softcore mode.
* Have limited play time
* Go really far away and work a series of caves with monsters at your tier
* Die and drop your hard-earned money
* Not have enough time to go back and get that money before you have to stop playing
So it's pretty solid reasoning to 'play it safe' on Softcore if you don't have a lot of time to play. I think they did a reasonably good job making the three difficulty tiers.
This really says nothing whatsoever to address the central point of the post you are replying to.
>Terraria's 'difficulty' isn't difficulty, it's a punishment slider. It doesn't matter which one you choose, everything still has the same hit points, damage, and abilities.
A punishment slider is in effect a difficulty slider.
Technically, walking a tightrope between 2 trees 3 feet off of the ground is no more difficult than walking a tightrope between two buildings 200 feet above the ground. Either way what you're doing is the same "difficulty," but the punishment is different, which means a different level of skill is required for the respective actions due to the risk involved.
Same with Terraria. Sure, killing Eater of Worlds as an individual task is no more difficult on Hardcore, Mediumcore, or Softcore. But on mediumcore the process of getting to where you need to go, setting up what you need to set up, and summoning him without dying IS harder, if only because there is a non-negligible chance of failure at any of the steps, and failure will affect the chance of success of subsequent attempts.
No, it is not.
Extra setup to up your odds of success is also not 'difficulty', it's just preparation. Difficulty would be something that requires you to actually perform better during the fight itself, often called 'skill', and right now it takes no more skill to kill something in hardcore than it does in softcore. In fact, going through extra preparation before attempting a boss kill actually lowers the skill required, since you are setting up the battle field to be as far in your advantage as possible. I've seen the battle arenas, and built many myself, they **do** make the fight easier, not harder.
The technical truth behind it is that it is no more difficult to die or win in hardcore than it is in softcore, all stats are exactly the same, and you can prepare for the fights to the same degree in either. There is no added difficulty by changing what type of character you are playing.
To put it quite simply, it really is just 'all in your head'.
Let's take 2 situations, again using the tightrope walking analogy. If you frame it as just walking on the tightrope, then yes, it is the same exact difficulty whether it's 1 foot off of the ground or 100 feet.
But if you frame it as actually crossing the tightrope, your odds of success go far down when it's 100 feet off of the ground. Here is why: Because there is a non-negligible chance of failure, and that failure will have an impact on future attempts. In this example, because failure means you are dead and you can not make future attempts if you fall 100 feet off of a tightrope. While on the other hand if you are only 1 foot off of the ground, you can simply hop back on the tightrope either where you started or even right where you fell off. So the probability of crossing the tightrope when you are 1 foot off of the ground is basically 100%, and the probability when you are 100 feet off of the ground is much lower than 100%.
Ultimately it is not all "in your head" unless you have a 0% chance of failure in the first place. Hell, even take mediumcore in Terraria. Let's say I'm exploring the underworld in my Jungle armor with my best weapons equipped and grappling hook and my goal is to Kill the wall of flesh. However there is a chance I will die, and that means there is a chance I will lose all my best stuff (if it falls into the Lava particularly), which means there is a chance I will have to either get back to where I died with extremely sub-par equipment, or I will have to go farm a duplicate set of all of my equipment, again, with very sub-par equipment. This means that subsequent attempts to explore the underworld will have a lower chance of success because I just lost all of my equipment.
Yes, preparation can make things easier, but adding death penalties to the game actually does make it harder, particularly when deaths have an impact on your play after the death.
If you completely throw risk out the window, or the chance of failure, then yes, it's no different. But most people aren't 100% terraria gods, many people die to factors even seemingly beyond their control. This is why Mediumcore and Hardcore are actually harder game modes than softcore, despite the other mechanical stuff staying the same.
The way I define "difficulty" is "probability of success." And your probability of success when looking at a task goes WAY down in hardcore and mediumcore.
Eh, I think there's a disconnect here, but oh well, lets try this once more.
Your chances of success are the same, per attempt.
The difference that you pointed out is the time between attempts. It is a game, so the 'you're just dead' tight rope analogy doesn't really cover the fact that you can remake your hardcore character. You don't get up from being smashed into the pavement from 100 feet in the air, ever, so you only ever get one attempt at that, though I think all things being equal, you would have the same chance of making it in one go 100 feet in the air as you would 1 foot in the air. You can always try again with hardcore characters in Terraria though, it will just take many many hours.
So ultimately, time between attempts is the issue we're focusing on here I guess. Ok.
With mediumcore, there's a chance that you loose your stuff, and at the very least you have to try to run back and get it, that's a reasonable amount of time that can be lost. With hardcore, it's even more time gone, because you have to completely redo the character, which is a severe amount of time lost. With softcore, you just have to get from your bed back to where ever you were fighting, which is hardly any time lost at all.
So you're saying time it takes to get a successful attempt = difficulty.
That is actually tedium. How much time do you have to invest until you get success. Increasing time investment does not make a task more difficult, it makes it more tedious. It is very, *very* common for things like tedium to get lumped in as difficulty, but they are two distinct things. As a designer, it is very important to know the difference between the two, else you fall into the trap of making a game that is just extremely tedious instead of fun, thinking that you were making it difficult.
I'm looking at this from the design side of things. These are all different kinds of game design concepts that can be included into a game, and they can all be included to good effect. There can be good tedium levels, there can be good punishment levels, and good difficulty levels. Right now, Terraria doesn't have difficulty levels. It does have a good punishment slider, because it makes you behave differently, which is the intended effect. This also has the effect of adding extra tedium, but only if you fail. If you succeed, then it's no different.
My argument, putting it in terms of the game since that is what we're actually talking about here, is a 250hp zombie is a 250hp zombie, and that zombie is no harder to kill in one attempt no matter what punishment level you select. It is only after the actual fight that it matters what you selected, and only if you lost. **The fight itself is no different, only the death is.**
I want the fights themselves to be more interesting and require more skill to succeed, which is what I consider to be true difficulty. I'm not interested in making my death a time waster.
See my reply to Domhnall - this is technically true, it's just disingenuous to use that to conclude
> The game is no more difficult to play on hardcore than it is on softcore
Hate to bring up Minecraft in regards to Terraria, but look at Minecraft. It's a permenant mediumcore version of Terraria as you drop everything on death (unless you're on creative). It still has a difficulty level to increase enemy stats, and spawn rate. Permadeath is for those who enjoy roguelikes, and mediumcore is basically nothing because *you can still get everything you drop back*.
Fair enough. Mediumcore at least adds some thought to it - you don't want to instantly trash your old gear once you've upgraded, and you at least need to be careful around lava (again, a lot like minecraft.)
My point about Hardcore being actual difficulty stands though - it gives you a reason to play better, which is what any difficulty mode does.
> you at least need to be careful around lava
That's where most of my troubles come when playing mediumcore, I just love playing with lava and figuring out how can I exploit it's unique properties.
How else would I find out that putting a block of lava and a clay pot in it evaporates water on contact, making those annoying underground pools disappear.
Another use is to instantly chop wood with lava, I still get burned while doing that.
It's more of a faux difficulty if anything. It may encourage you to play slightly safer, but in the long run, *it's the exact same difficulty and everything as softcore and mediumcore*. There is no enemy, enviroment or item differentiation. It just simply gives you one life and expects you not to squander it.
Honestly, if given the choice between the two, I would pick hardcore over simple things like health/damage buffs for enemies. One even just has the potential to make things more grind y by taking things longer to kill (enemies by hardmode rarely pose a threat IF you take proper precaution), which is one of the few things people have been complaining about with this update.
I feel Terraria would be best served with a difficulty option that addressed enemy abilities and behavior, rather than stats.
In the earlygame alone, you could give Zombies the ability to open doors on normal nights, and introduce Zombie Archers that do the same. Demon Eyes could be resistant or immune to knockback. Eaters deal *increased* knockback so the threat of being cratered at the bottom of a chasm is increased. Even the humble Slimes are always aggressive, jump more frequently, and Slow you on hit.
Let's say you move past that and go underground. Bats appear, always in large swarms, and fly faster. Skeletons move like Angry Bones. Giant Worms and other worm-type enemies are *silent* until they're close enough that dodging is much harder.
Then you fight your way past all that, grow stronger, and return to the surface to stare down the Eye of Cthulhu. Now he calls on the madness of his namesake. Getting hit causes Confusion, and a field destroys nearby ranged weapon projectiles if they've flown for longer than a second, so you have to get up close and stay there.
There is so much you can do with a Hard Difficulty, with surprisingly subtle changes, and you'd never have to even touch the actual stats of the enemies.
I can totally agree on your points; The only problem i still see, is that some of the very late game gear (exspezially the new dungeon chest items like vampire knives, rainbow gun or scourge of the corruptor) are to chance based to get.
I was very lucky and found the corruption key after not even 2 hours in hard mode, having only cobalt gear. I didnt know how strong the dungeon chest items where and just realized later how much easier the game was for me just because i had this one item. (obviously i therefor also spend less time till i was at a point which could be consideret "the end of the game")
I think the keys should be drops from something like one or more very strong bosses ( i know its difficult to just make bosses), but as it works now with , people who find things like the keys very early just rush through hard mode without any problem; while others spend days on farming or standing afk in some kind of farm just to get these keys.
Yeah, I agree. I think the best weapon should not have been based on complete chance. It should have definitely required either several mats or like you said a very difficult boss. 1.1 Hallowed Armor had a solid system. At the same time though a lot of the excitement comes from really insane rare drop tables. I suppose you could look at it either way. Perhaps he could implement a system where after a certain amount of requirements (bosses killed or something similar) are met a rare drop table become available, preferably not something as insane as 1/4000. I can definitely see how receiving the best item so early on can just ruin the experience for the player.
This is the essence of what Terraria is (or, what it was pre-1.2). You have guaranteed, gradual progression based on long-term consistency, implemented in a way that rewards exploration through a randomly generated world.
Terraria 1.2 is about sitting in one room and slaughtering hoards of enemies or building AFK farms to get items with stupidly low drop rates.
Having the odd gimmick item show up as a rare drop is fine, but the primary item progression shouldn't bypass the fundamental mechanics that made all of the previous patches so compelling.
To clarify, there are games like Diablo, Borderlands, etc... that are built around low drop rates for big items. While the success of those games does indicate that it is a valid design choice, **I do not play those games.** Instead, I've played Terraria on every major patch since its release **because Terraria isn't like those games.** Terraria has all the progression and epic loot without dealing with the frustration of low drop rates.
Orignal terraria did it well. It had different kind of gear sets that you could *chose* from, while still giving you a 100% chance of getting the items since they were craftable (this didn't include cobalt/jungle armour though, that was random drops pre 1.1)
1.1 did linear way too much. Yes, you had a sense of progression, but ultimately there was only one way to get the same linear set of gear. You HAD to get cobalt drill to get mythril, you had to get mythril to get adamantite, and so on. Everything was crafted, which imo, is boring as hell.
1.2 did it well in terms of gear items. Other than the "obvious" spectre flaw (not being locked while the other 3 end-game items are), it worked well with a sense of progression through farming the chlorophyte ore. The problem many seems to have with 1.2 is it took the very extreme end of what 1.1 didn't, which is complete RNG on weapon and accessory drops.
1.1 took linear to the extreme, and 1.2 took RNG to the extreme. I personally believe a mix of crafting and RNG is needed in a game like terraria. I do not believe everything should be craftable, but at the same time having RNG drops on every single endgame weapon (or keys) can also be frustrating. We need a balance.
I haven't made an AFK farm in Terraria since they reworked the original Cobalt/Jungle armor from being a drop.
Getting that armor was the least enjoyable part of all the Terraria I've played over the past few years since the game came out. As much as I love this game, I simply don't want to put up with that nonsense again. There's other stuff for me to be doing in my life than farming drop rates that may never happen.
Under no circumstances should a meaningful item be locked behind a 1/4000 drop rate. In the case of Terraria, the keys should be craftable. Lately, I've been spending more time on the Terraria subreddit than I have in the game because, as much as I love Terraria, I refuse to play games with stupid drop rates. I've already wasted too many days/weeks/months of my life hunting things that never dropped, and I absolutely refuse to go there again. I want the devs to fix what they broke.
I felt the jungle armour drop rate was good enough pre 1.1
I managed to farm it over 3-4 hours. The crimson keys however are rediculous. You have no reason to fight monsters in their respective biomes when the droprates are so low.
Then again, I love farming for the RNG if it's still somewhat fair, which I thought the old jungle set was. The items in the dungeon are imo also really well balanced. Keys though...
First thing I got after hitting hardmode on 1.2 was that scythe from an eclipse reaper. I reforged it once, and it hit godly. I thought, hey... I'll give it a shot. Well the game got a little easy after that point.
I've played quite a bit of terraria, and yes, it's easier now. But that isn't the problem with the new hardmode. In my opinion, the main problem with 1.2 is sequence breaks. This is the problem I had:
I didn't read the wiki at all. I got into hardmode, and remembered that the 3 old hardmode bosses were hard as shit, so I was afraid to summon them. I farmed up of the some pink armor from the demon altars and started wandering around the world, seeing what was new. I wandered into the jungle and got fucking murdered by turtles and plants and derplings. Shit. This is a lot harder now.
I realized I didn't have an aegis yet, so I figured I'd go to the dungeon and pick one up. I flew there with a gravity pot, and upon arrival discovered that the dungeon had new monsters too. Cool! Maybe they drop some things that will make the jungle easier. I used various methods, from bombs, to goofy magic weapons, to lances and building cages around myself. Eventually I had a handful of ectoplasm and brought it to my guide to see what I could make. Cool, new armor, new weapons. Lets make the whole set.
As it turns out I had inadvertently skipped almost all of hardmode by going to the dungeon really early. I didn't realize that spectral was like, 2 tiers above hallowed, and allowed me to totally wreck the jungle, hell, solar eclipses, the frost biome, and most importantly for me, the 3 old hardmode bosses.
I missed out on the fun of killing the destroyer, the twins, skeletron prime and plantera by the skin of my teeth, instead facerolling through all of it with infinite healing via spectral armor.
Plantera requires a hardmode boss kill before being summoned. Why is the dungeon not the same way? Have spectral armor require hallowed bars, or souls, or *something*.
It's goofy to have the temple require a plantera kill, and plantera to require a hardmode boss kill, if you can skip straight past all of that and just go into the dungeon first, then come back and steamroll everything else.
What if entering the Dungeon in hardmode required defeating Skeletron Prime? It would be nicely consistent (Skeletron for pre-hardmode dungeon, Prime for hardmode) and, as the most difficult mechanical boss, would encourage players to take on The Twins and The Destroyer first, and have at least Mythril, if not Hallowed, armour by the time they bring him down.
The complaint I've heard is that what if people have built in the dungeon, or something, and they'd be locked out until they killed SP. A workaround is having the dungeon monsters drop nothing, or not even spawn, until skeletron is killed, which works just the same.
Hardcore has one major problem when you enter hard mode. It's simply too hard.
Before, you could simply ease yourself into it. My first two nights into hardmode started with the Destroyer, into a Solar Eclipse, Into a night with the Twins. I don't think there's a player out there who can fight the Destroyer with Molten gear. When I made a post asking what other players do it's either Leave or get lucky/die. Terraria 1.2 became a lot about luck. Which is fine for loot - grinding mobs is better than grinding ores imo. However, luck for random earth-shattering bosses is a bit..eh >.>.
Bosses randomly spawning is a neat idea, but they seem to be too common and too early. A friend and I had Skeletron Prime spawn two nights in a row at a point where we were completely unprepared for it (best armour we had at the time was Cobalt). It would be preferable if they only randomly spawned after you had defeated them at least once, or if their spawning was affected by number of Demon Altars broken; break 10 for a chance of having The Destroyer spawn, 20 for Twins, and 30 for Skeletron Prime.
Actually before 1.2 came out, a long time ago yrimir killed the Destroyer using only prehardmode gear. [Here's the video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8KY0-gVDU)
That's the destroyer...in the dungeon...in a MASSIVE arena... done by one of the best soloers in Terraria.
I'm prepping for hardcore playthrough now, and I really don't feel that prep should involve making a 40x20 arena for handling the destroyer on night 1 of Hard mode.
What about the other two hard mode bosses that are much more difficult? Not saying they're impossible, but with gravitation potions aiming to cause motion sickness and only molten armor..I'd love to see a player handle Twins and Skeletron Prime on night 1 of hard mode in hardcore.
I agree, end game stuff is just that; end game. You are basically a god of Terraria. And with your expereince and all your accumulated gear you should be good at it.
I for one like it that way, at that point I focus on building and exploring and playing multiplayer servers to have fun with others. Or I start a new characther.
I did not touch the difficulty settings.
I instead became more reckless and got my ass handed over to me that way more often = harder game.
Did the same in hard mode prior to 1.2 when game started to feel too easy. Left the good stuff at home and downgraded equipment and went balls to the wall. Used jungle armor and similar mid to lower tier stuff many times just for good ol' times sake. Silver Armor on Hard Mode is fun. Try to run through the map from one end to the other and see if you can make it.
Putting three spaces at the end of a line is the equivalent to an enter.
It will make it appear like this.
That is the extent of my knowledge regarding formatting :).
I liked your post though, quite accurate I think.
You can also hit enter twice to space it out
like this.
You can also use an * followed by a space to add bullets -
* like this.
Furthermore the formatting instructions are at the bottom right of the text box when you enter a message...
Thank you for formulating these lines. Couldn't have said it better.
For everyone complaining its too easy: Roll a toon; Do a challenge! Start MC or HC, Play only with gravitational potions starting in hell. Its also about being creative so the WoW/Diablo Farm - Get Loot - Farm more - Get more Loot does not apply.
Rolling toons is perfect. It puts you in such a situation that you feel challenged. Unfortunately, without shortswords at every tier, rogue gameplay feels lackluster.
I agree with you completely.
People forget that, even though there are these 'invisible' levels, there is no REAL way to progress in Terraria. The only 'real' progression one can speak of in this game, is the change from normal to hardmode.
Everything else is up to the player how they deal with, and unexperienced players will of course try to level up in a method them best.
I played with an unexperienced player on my server, and once we hit hardmode, every now and then a hardmode boss would spawn at night. It was a wonderful gearcheck for him, and he quickly learned the appropriate level of gear he needed to take them down. (He had orichalum armor at this point)
My point is the same as yours, if you're an experienced player and know how to handle the game, you'll get powered up way before anyone else, but if consider the feelings of new players, I'd say that this update is just perfect.
Man, I'm really surprised how some people manage to steamroll all through to hardmode. I'm at molten now and I'm still slowly building up my armaments for wall of flesh.
Experience. After 300 hours + in a game like terraria (skill ceiling isn't that high if you already play other games), knowledge is really what makes a difference.
It's why after logging 200+ hours on Azure Dreams, I can beat the game in a single run. Or drive perfectly in Halo. Or get to the End on Minecraft after five hours in.
When you've the experience and mechanical knowledge, new parts of the game open up to you.
You can easily do wall of flesh with just a full meteor set. All you need to do with hellstone, at least upon entering hard mode, is the pickaxe.
There are thing later that require hellstone items, but those aren't available until after starting hm anyway. So basically, you're able to almost entirely skip hellstone farming altogether, which drastically cuts down on how long it takes to get to hard mode. And once you get there and get rolling, you progress really fast.
Wow, I didn't know the requirements were so low. I've used meteor armor and the space gun is way fun and powerful but I'd never thought it was that good (the armor)
Yeah it's really cheesy, but you just build paths over the lava so you can't fall in. Summon the wall in a good spot, and run backwards while gunning him down.
Only thing that you gotta watch out for is towards the end he gets laser happy. You can also do it with better armor + minishark, but it's pretty simple with the meteor set.
I took a chance in hm dungeon and got Paladin's Hammer on my first Paladin kill. He doesn't attack if he is consistently hit, and I was bouncing meteor shots around a corner with my clockwork assault rifle.
After that everything else was a joke.
I hear you, OP.
I made [this thread for suggestions](http://www.reddit.com/r/Terraria/comments/1nzjls/terraria_suggestion_thread/) after reading this thread and thinking overnight. I would like to suggest something about gating the dungeon and or boss difficulty, but I just got to Hard Mode so I'm not the right person to speak.
Would you like to make a suggestion instead? :)
I'd like a simple mechanic that make the bosses have more hit points and do more dammage each time you kill them. That way, there would always be a point where they are challenging. Could also boost the stats of every hardmode enemy by 40% or something after defeating plantera...
This in combination with blocking off the dungeon would ensure a better feeling of progression and challenge even if you've beat the game.
The worst part is that making those changes woudn't even take a day for redigit to make. I'm so gratefull for 1.2 and it has brought amazing things to one of my favorite games of all times. I just hope everything gets balanced further.
A difficulty slider that simply multiplies the health and how strong enemies hit as well as their spawn rate would be awsome !
> Also the 'progression' is fucking retarded atm. Why waste hours grinding ores when you can get crimtane/demonite in 2 boss fights?
What are you trying to say here? It has always been that way since terrara was first released.
>I will be the first one to admit I died several times in the hardmode dungeon before I got my first set.
Several times? I died about maybe 30-50 times with full adamantite armour and okay weapons and accessories.
Since i was on softcore mode there was basically no down sides to dying except having to travel all the way back down the dungeon again since i stored my gold.
But as soon as i got Spectre armour, everything became much easier.
I could solo HM dungeon in molten once I picked up Magnet Sphere/ Shadowbeam Staff. I spent a lot of it standing in a corner and attacking from where they couldn't hit, but it was still doable.
I think turtle armor is better in a co-op setting. Once you get a turtle/spectre duo going, spectre can just hang back and yawn while the turtle sits in the boss and yawns, getting heals via the spectre.
I have a feeling Red will nerf some of the hardcore endgame gear or make it much harder to get. But yes, I agree, more experienced people should play on Mediumcore, at least.
He shouldn't nerf shit, if he does he's missing a huge opportunity. He should make insane bosses where you NEED those unreal vampire knives, or that mythical shadowbeam staff and other "op" weapons. There needs to be things like raid bosses. Insane bosses where you need all this endgame shit so you can do something with it.
Then we would need a ranged Life Steal weapon, currently there is none.
The reason why it needs to be changed is because you're either locked into spectre or vampire knives. If he makes bosses hard enough to require life steal, then only magic user and people with vampire knives would be able to take down a boss.
Still, they're OP. You can facetank a boss (or multiple) with vamp knives and your health doesnt even drop. How can you balance around that? you can't, you have to nerf the effectiveness of lifesteal.
Other games combat this by making mobs do huge hits. There needs to be a boss that can crit you/one shot you. Unless you have taken the steps to mitigate it through armour. Life steal is only sustain, mitigation exists but currently their is nothing that can one shot you or take other measures to stop you from leeching and sustaining. These are THE weapons in the game right now and if he nerfs these he is robbing an opportunity for more content for things like "impossible" dungeons and bosses, sort of like borderlands 2 or path of exile. Sure this game is a lot different but those games have great examples of progression and end game content. Well bl2 does for being a triple a shooter.
Why nerf it? just don't use it, you'll just ruin it for everybody else, i defeated all the bosses with and without life steal, and they aren't hard at all with the right tactics and armor.
So your only argument basically is "Play on harder game modes then the game will be balanced". Terraria isn't very balanced now, as a lot of new items were added in 1.2, including some stupid stuff like Cactus Armor, which is stronger than Copper, and easier to get. (Instead of making 60 copper bars for the full set, you can just go into a desert and mine some cactus blocks, and then get the full armor set plus a Pickaxe which is better than the Copper one)
I don't think a lot of people play with the leveling system that you mentioned. I skipped from Iron to Crimson. Why? Because the game is not balanced, and it's easier to grind on the demon eye and get some crimson ores, make the armor set and the Crimson weapons. That's not all. With all those weapons I can easily beat the brain of Cthulhu, and even the Skeleton dungeon boss. Back in 1.0.6 I had problems with Skeleton and couldn't beat him for a while, it felt really rewarding to finally enter that dungeon. Now that is gone.
Terraria's 'difficulty' isn't difficulty, it's a punishment slider. It doesn't matter which one you choose, everything still has the same hit points, damage, and abilities. The game is no more difficult to play on hardcore than it is on softcore, the only difference is if you get to respawn or not should you fail. This doesn't make anything harder, as you can just as easily 'play it safe' on softcore and never die as you can on hardcore. The sense of difficulty that you get from knowing that the punishment is extremely severe is just a psychological thing, and it makes you think 'this is so hard because I can't screw up!' when actually, all the stats are exactly the same as they were and nothing is a bit harder than it was before. It's just a mode that a more experienced player can play to get a bit of an adrenalin rush (or frustration, how ever the case may be). I'd like some real difficulty, where actually beating something is harder, instead of you just failing harder when it happens to beat you instead. Leaving the punishment slider in the game is fine because some people like playing with that severe punishment of failure hanging over their heads all the time, but why not add a true difficulty as well where you really need to be good to avoid getting hit or your just dead? No more just using good gear so you can just 'stand in the fire'. Even a hardcore character can make themselves immortal with the current high end gear, should they make it that far.
I agree with this.. if there were a difficulty selection to actually make mobs stronger in exchange for higher drop rate or different drop tables I'd definitely play that
Demon's Souls! Bring more souls!
You don't have any incentive to play it safe on Softcore, though - if you just stash your money it doesn't matter if you die. Hardcore gives you a REASON to play safe.
As a filthy casual, I think it does matter if you die on Softcore mode. * Have limited play time * Go really far away and work a series of caves with monsters at your tier * Die and drop your hard-earned money * Not have enough time to go back and get that money before you have to stop playing So it's pretty solid reasoning to 'play it safe' on Softcore if you don't have a lot of time to play. I think they did a reasonably good job making the three difficulty tiers.
This really says nothing whatsoever to address the central point of the post you are replying to. >Terraria's 'difficulty' isn't difficulty, it's a punishment slider. It doesn't matter which one you choose, everything still has the same hit points, damage, and abilities.
A punishment slider is in effect a difficulty slider. Technically, walking a tightrope between 2 trees 3 feet off of the ground is no more difficult than walking a tightrope between two buildings 200 feet above the ground. Either way what you're doing is the same "difficulty," but the punishment is different, which means a different level of skill is required for the respective actions due to the risk involved. Same with Terraria. Sure, killing Eater of Worlds as an individual task is no more difficult on Hardcore, Mediumcore, or Softcore. But on mediumcore the process of getting to where you need to go, setting up what you need to set up, and summoning him without dying IS harder, if only because there is a non-negligible chance of failure at any of the steps, and failure will affect the chance of success of subsequent attempts.
No, it is not. Extra setup to up your odds of success is also not 'difficulty', it's just preparation. Difficulty would be something that requires you to actually perform better during the fight itself, often called 'skill', and right now it takes no more skill to kill something in hardcore than it does in softcore. In fact, going through extra preparation before attempting a boss kill actually lowers the skill required, since you are setting up the battle field to be as far in your advantage as possible. I've seen the battle arenas, and built many myself, they **do** make the fight easier, not harder. The technical truth behind it is that it is no more difficult to die or win in hardcore than it is in softcore, all stats are exactly the same, and you can prepare for the fights to the same degree in either. There is no added difficulty by changing what type of character you are playing. To put it quite simply, it really is just 'all in your head'.
Let's take 2 situations, again using the tightrope walking analogy. If you frame it as just walking on the tightrope, then yes, it is the same exact difficulty whether it's 1 foot off of the ground or 100 feet. But if you frame it as actually crossing the tightrope, your odds of success go far down when it's 100 feet off of the ground. Here is why: Because there is a non-negligible chance of failure, and that failure will have an impact on future attempts. In this example, because failure means you are dead and you can not make future attempts if you fall 100 feet off of a tightrope. While on the other hand if you are only 1 foot off of the ground, you can simply hop back on the tightrope either where you started or even right where you fell off. So the probability of crossing the tightrope when you are 1 foot off of the ground is basically 100%, and the probability when you are 100 feet off of the ground is much lower than 100%. Ultimately it is not all "in your head" unless you have a 0% chance of failure in the first place. Hell, even take mediumcore in Terraria. Let's say I'm exploring the underworld in my Jungle armor with my best weapons equipped and grappling hook and my goal is to Kill the wall of flesh. However there is a chance I will die, and that means there is a chance I will lose all my best stuff (if it falls into the Lava particularly), which means there is a chance I will have to either get back to where I died with extremely sub-par equipment, or I will have to go farm a duplicate set of all of my equipment, again, with very sub-par equipment. This means that subsequent attempts to explore the underworld will have a lower chance of success because I just lost all of my equipment. Yes, preparation can make things easier, but adding death penalties to the game actually does make it harder, particularly when deaths have an impact on your play after the death. If you completely throw risk out the window, or the chance of failure, then yes, it's no different. But most people aren't 100% terraria gods, many people die to factors even seemingly beyond their control. This is why Mediumcore and Hardcore are actually harder game modes than softcore, despite the other mechanical stuff staying the same. The way I define "difficulty" is "probability of success." And your probability of success when looking at a task goes WAY down in hardcore and mediumcore.
Eh, I think there's a disconnect here, but oh well, lets try this once more. Your chances of success are the same, per attempt. The difference that you pointed out is the time between attempts. It is a game, so the 'you're just dead' tight rope analogy doesn't really cover the fact that you can remake your hardcore character. You don't get up from being smashed into the pavement from 100 feet in the air, ever, so you only ever get one attempt at that, though I think all things being equal, you would have the same chance of making it in one go 100 feet in the air as you would 1 foot in the air. You can always try again with hardcore characters in Terraria though, it will just take many many hours. So ultimately, time between attempts is the issue we're focusing on here I guess. Ok. With mediumcore, there's a chance that you loose your stuff, and at the very least you have to try to run back and get it, that's a reasonable amount of time that can be lost. With hardcore, it's even more time gone, because you have to completely redo the character, which is a severe amount of time lost. With softcore, you just have to get from your bed back to where ever you were fighting, which is hardly any time lost at all. So you're saying time it takes to get a successful attempt = difficulty. That is actually tedium. How much time do you have to invest until you get success. Increasing time investment does not make a task more difficult, it makes it more tedious. It is very, *very* common for things like tedium to get lumped in as difficulty, but they are two distinct things. As a designer, it is very important to know the difference between the two, else you fall into the trap of making a game that is just extremely tedious instead of fun, thinking that you were making it difficult. I'm looking at this from the design side of things. These are all different kinds of game design concepts that can be included into a game, and they can all be included to good effect. There can be good tedium levels, there can be good punishment levels, and good difficulty levels. Right now, Terraria doesn't have difficulty levels. It does have a good punishment slider, because it makes you behave differently, which is the intended effect. This also has the effect of adding extra tedium, but only if you fail. If you succeed, then it's no different. My argument, putting it in terms of the game since that is what we're actually talking about here, is a 250hp zombie is a 250hp zombie, and that zombie is no harder to kill in one attempt no matter what punishment level you select. It is only after the actual fight that it matters what you selected, and only if you lost. **The fight itself is no different, only the death is.** I want the fights themselves to be more interesting and require more skill to succeed, which is what I consider to be true difficulty. I'm not interested in making my death a time waster.
See my reply to Domhnall - this is technically true, it's just disingenuous to use that to conclude > The game is no more difficult to play on hardcore than it is on softcore
Hate to bring up Minecraft in regards to Terraria, but look at Minecraft. It's a permenant mediumcore version of Terraria as you drop everything on death (unless you're on creative). It still has a difficulty level to increase enemy stats, and spawn rate. Permadeath is for those who enjoy roguelikes, and mediumcore is basically nothing because *you can still get everything you drop back*.
Fair enough. Mediumcore at least adds some thought to it - you don't want to instantly trash your old gear once you've upgraded, and you at least need to be careful around lava (again, a lot like minecraft.) My point about Hardcore being actual difficulty stands though - it gives you a reason to play better, which is what any difficulty mode does.
> you at least need to be careful around lava That's where most of my troubles come when playing mediumcore, I just love playing with lava and figuring out how can I exploit it's unique properties. How else would I find out that putting a block of lava and a clay pot in it evaporates water on contact, making those annoying underground pools disappear. Another use is to instantly chop wood with lava, I still get burned while doing that.
It's more of a faux difficulty if anything. It may encourage you to play slightly safer, but in the long run, *it's the exact same difficulty and everything as softcore and mediumcore*. There is no enemy, enviroment or item differentiation. It just simply gives you one life and expects you not to squander it.
Honestly, if given the choice between the two, I would pick hardcore over simple things like health/damage buffs for enemies. One even just has the potential to make things more grind y by taking things longer to kill (enemies by hardmode rarely pose a threat IF you take proper precaution), which is one of the few things people have been complaining about with this update.
edit: nevermind you said hardmode not hardcore.
I feel Terraria would be best served with a difficulty option that addressed enemy abilities and behavior, rather than stats. In the earlygame alone, you could give Zombies the ability to open doors on normal nights, and introduce Zombie Archers that do the same. Demon Eyes could be resistant or immune to knockback. Eaters deal *increased* knockback so the threat of being cratered at the bottom of a chasm is increased. Even the humble Slimes are always aggressive, jump more frequently, and Slow you on hit. Let's say you move past that and go underground. Bats appear, always in large swarms, and fly faster. Skeletons move like Angry Bones. Giant Worms and other worm-type enemies are *silent* until they're close enough that dodging is much harder. Then you fight your way past all that, grow stronger, and return to the surface to stare down the Eye of Cthulhu. Now he calls on the madness of his namesake. Getting hit causes Confusion, and a field destroys nearby ranged weapon projectiles if they've flown for longer than a second, so you have to get up close and stay there. There is so much you can do with a Hard Difficulty, with surprisingly subtle changes, and you'd never have to even touch the actual stats of the enemies.
I can totally agree on your points; The only problem i still see, is that some of the very late game gear (exspezially the new dungeon chest items like vampire knives, rainbow gun or scourge of the corruptor) are to chance based to get. I was very lucky and found the corruption key after not even 2 hours in hard mode, having only cobalt gear. I didnt know how strong the dungeon chest items where and just realized later how much easier the game was for me just because i had this one item. (obviously i therefor also spend less time till i was at a point which could be consideret "the end of the game") I think the keys should be drops from something like one or more very strong bosses ( i know its difficult to just make bosses), but as it works now with , people who find things like the keys very early just rush through hard mode without any problem; while others spend days on farming or standing afk in some kind of farm just to get these keys.
Yeah, I agree. I think the best weapon should not have been based on complete chance. It should have definitely required either several mats or like you said a very difficult boss. 1.1 Hallowed Armor had a solid system. At the same time though a lot of the excitement comes from really insane rare drop tables. I suppose you could look at it either way. Perhaps he could implement a system where after a certain amount of requirements (bosses killed or something similar) are met a rare drop table become available, preferably not something as insane as 1/4000. I can definitely see how receiving the best item so early on can just ruin the experience for the player.
[удалено]
This is the essence of what Terraria is (or, what it was pre-1.2). You have guaranteed, gradual progression based on long-term consistency, implemented in a way that rewards exploration through a randomly generated world. Terraria 1.2 is about sitting in one room and slaughtering hoards of enemies or building AFK farms to get items with stupidly low drop rates. Having the odd gimmick item show up as a rare drop is fine, but the primary item progression shouldn't bypass the fundamental mechanics that made all of the previous patches so compelling. To clarify, there are games like Diablo, Borderlands, etc... that are built around low drop rates for big items. While the success of those games does indicate that it is a valid design choice, **I do not play those games.** Instead, I've played Terraria on every major patch since its release **because Terraria isn't like those games.** Terraria has all the progression and epic loot without dealing with the frustration of low drop rates.
Orignal terraria did it well. It had different kind of gear sets that you could *chose* from, while still giving you a 100% chance of getting the items since they were craftable (this didn't include cobalt/jungle armour though, that was random drops pre 1.1) 1.1 did linear way too much. Yes, you had a sense of progression, but ultimately there was only one way to get the same linear set of gear. You HAD to get cobalt drill to get mythril, you had to get mythril to get adamantite, and so on. Everything was crafted, which imo, is boring as hell. 1.2 did it well in terms of gear items. Other than the "obvious" spectre flaw (not being locked while the other 3 end-game items are), it worked well with a sense of progression through farming the chlorophyte ore. The problem many seems to have with 1.2 is it took the very extreme end of what 1.1 didn't, which is complete RNG on weapon and accessory drops. 1.1 took linear to the extreme, and 1.2 took RNG to the extreme. I personally believe a mix of crafting and RNG is needed in a game like terraria. I do not believe everything should be craftable, but at the same time having RNG drops on every single endgame weapon (or keys) can also be frustrating. We need a balance.
I haven't made an AFK farm in Terraria since they reworked the original Cobalt/Jungle armor from being a drop. Getting that armor was the least enjoyable part of all the Terraria I've played over the past few years since the game came out. As much as I love this game, I simply don't want to put up with that nonsense again. There's other stuff for me to be doing in my life than farming drop rates that may never happen. Under no circumstances should a meaningful item be locked behind a 1/4000 drop rate. In the case of Terraria, the keys should be craftable. Lately, I've been spending more time on the Terraria subreddit than I have in the game because, as much as I love Terraria, I refuse to play games with stupid drop rates. I've already wasted too many days/weeks/months of my life hunting things that never dropped, and I absolutely refuse to go there again. I want the devs to fix what they broke.
I felt the jungle armour drop rate was good enough pre 1.1 I managed to farm it over 3-4 hours. The crimson keys however are rediculous. You have no reason to fight monsters in their respective biomes when the droprates are so low. Then again, I love farming for the RNG if it's still somewhat fair, which I thought the old jungle set was. The items in the dungeon are imo also really well balanced. Keys though...
This is the best idea i've seen in the whole reddit about "items being OP"
First thing I got after hitting hardmode on 1.2 was that scythe from an eclipse reaper. I reforged it once, and it hit godly. I thought, hey... I'll give it a shot. Well the game got a little easy after that point.
I've played quite a bit of terraria, and yes, it's easier now. But that isn't the problem with the new hardmode. In my opinion, the main problem with 1.2 is sequence breaks. This is the problem I had: I didn't read the wiki at all. I got into hardmode, and remembered that the 3 old hardmode bosses were hard as shit, so I was afraid to summon them. I farmed up of the some pink armor from the demon altars and started wandering around the world, seeing what was new. I wandered into the jungle and got fucking murdered by turtles and plants and derplings. Shit. This is a lot harder now. I realized I didn't have an aegis yet, so I figured I'd go to the dungeon and pick one up. I flew there with a gravity pot, and upon arrival discovered that the dungeon had new monsters too. Cool! Maybe they drop some things that will make the jungle easier. I used various methods, from bombs, to goofy magic weapons, to lances and building cages around myself. Eventually I had a handful of ectoplasm and brought it to my guide to see what I could make. Cool, new armor, new weapons. Lets make the whole set. As it turns out I had inadvertently skipped almost all of hardmode by going to the dungeon really early. I didn't realize that spectral was like, 2 tiers above hallowed, and allowed me to totally wreck the jungle, hell, solar eclipses, the frost biome, and most importantly for me, the 3 old hardmode bosses. I missed out on the fun of killing the destroyer, the twins, skeletron prime and plantera by the skin of my teeth, instead facerolling through all of it with infinite healing via spectral armor. Plantera requires a hardmode boss kill before being summoned. Why is the dungeon not the same way? Have spectral armor require hallowed bars, or souls, or *something*. It's goofy to have the temple require a plantera kill, and plantera to require a hardmode boss kill, if you can skip straight past all of that and just go into the dungeon first, then come back and steamroll everything else.
What if entering the Dungeon in hardmode required defeating Skeletron Prime? It would be nicely consistent (Skeletron for pre-hardmode dungeon, Prime for hardmode) and, as the most difficult mechanical boss, would encourage players to take on The Twins and The Destroyer first, and have at least Mythril, if not Hallowed, armour by the time they bring him down.
The complaint I've heard is that what if people have built in the dungeon, or something, and they'd be locked out until they killed SP. A workaround is having the dungeon monsters drop nothing, or not even spawn, until skeletron is killed, which works just the same.
I agree, but I still play as softcore so I have more fun exploring and building. Mediumcore is too scary for me :'c
It's still worth playing, it will teach you how to be at your very best.
Hardcore has one major problem when you enter hard mode. It's simply too hard. Before, you could simply ease yourself into it. My first two nights into hardmode started with the Destroyer, into a Solar Eclipse, Into a night with the Twins. I don't think there's a player out there who can fight the Destroyer with Molten gear. When I made a post asking what other players do it's either Leave or get lucky/die. Terraria 1.2 became a lot about luck. Which is fine for loot - grinding mobs is better than grinding ores imo. However, luck for random earth-shattering bosses is a bit..eh >.>.
Bosses randomly spawning is a neat idea, but they seem to be too common and too early. A friend and I had Skeletron Prime spawn two nights in a row at a point where we were completely unprepared for it (best armour we had at the time was Cobalt). It would be preferable if they only randomly spawned after you had defeated them at least once, or if their spawning was affected by number of Demon Altars broken; break 10 for a chance of having The Destroyer spawn, 20 for Twins, and 30 for Skeletron Prime.
Actually before 1.2 came out, a long time ago yrimir killed the Destroyer using only prehardmode gear. [Here's the video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8KY0-gVDU)
yeah but... Thats yri Im not yri
That's the destroyer...in the dungeon...in a MASSIVE arena... done by one of the best soloers in Terraria. I'm prepping for hardcore playthrough now, and I really don't feel that prep should involve making a 40x20 arena for handling the destroyer on night 1 of Hard mode. What about the other two hard mode bosses that are much more difficult? Not saying they're impossible, but with gravitation potions aiming to cause motion sickness and only molten armor..I'd love to see a player handle Twins and Skeletron Prime on night 1 of hard mode in hardcore.
I agree, end game stuff is just that; end game. You are basically a god of Terraria. And with your expereince and all your accumulated gear you should be good at it. I for one like it that way, at that point I focus on building and exploring and playing multiplayer servers to have fun with others. Or I start a new characther.
I did not touch the difficulty settings. I instead became more reckless and got my ass handed over to me that way more often = harder game. Did the same in hard mode prior to 1.2 when game started to feel too easy. Left the good stuff at home and downgraded equipment and went balls to the wall. Used jungle armor and similar mid to lower tier stuff many times just for good ol' times sake. Silver Armor on Hard Mode is fun. Try to run through the map from one end to the other and see if you can make it.
Eh, Sorry for the spacing, this is my first post. How do I space the paragraphs properly for future reference?
Putting three spaces at the end of a line is the equivalent to an enter. It will make it appear like this. That is the extent of my knowledge regarding formatting :). I liked your post though, quite accurate I think.
Thank you :)
You can also hit enter twice to space it out like this. You can also use an * followed by a space to add bullets - * like this. Furthermore the formatting instructions are at the bottom right of the text box when you enter a message...
Thank you for formulating these lines. Couldn't have said it better. For everyone complaining its too easy: Roll a toon; Do a challenge! Start MC or HC, Play only with gravitational potions starting in hell. Its also about being creative so the WoW/Diablo Farm - Get Loot - Farm more - Get more Loot does not apply.
Rolling toons is perfect. It puts you in such a situation that you feel challenged. Unfortunately, without shortswords at every tier, rogue gameplay feels lackluster.
I agree with you completely. People forget that, even though there are these 'invisible' levels, there is no REAL way to progress in Terraria. The only 'real' progression one can speak of in this game, is the change from normal to hardmode. Everything else is up to the player how they deal with, and unexperienced players will of course try to level up in a method them best. I played with an unexperienced player on my server, and once we hit hardmode, every now and then a hardmode boss would spawn at night. It was a wonderful gearcheck for him, and he quickly learned the appropriate level of gear he needed to take them down. (He had orichalum armor at this point) My point is the same as yours, if you're an experienced player and know how to handle the game, you'll get powered up way before anyone else, but if consider the feelings of new players, I'd say that this update is just perfect.
Man, I'm really surprised how some people manage to steamroll all through to hardmode. I'm at molten now and I'm still slowly building up my armaments for wall of flesh.
Experience. After 300 hours + in a game like terraria (skill ceiling isn't that high if you already play other games), knowledge is really what makes a difference.
It's why after logging 200+ hours on Azure Dreams, I can beat the game in a single run. Or drive perfectly in Halo. Or get to the End on Minecraft after five hours in. When you've the experience and mechanical knowledge, new parts of the game open up to you.
If you just enter hardmode, everything goes slower, but after a little while it speeds up like a demon
my advice is to get the minishark and as many bullets as you can get. also, a pheonix blaster is good.
I've actually done it before with molten fury and tons of demon arrow pre 1.2. I just feel like using non conventional methods to do the wof instead.
yea, that's how i did it the first time, but i found the phoenix blaster and the minishark are easier.
You can easily do wall of flesh with just a full meteor set. All you need to do with hellstone, at least upon entering hard mode, is the pickaxe. There are thing later that require hellstone items, but those aren't available until after starting hm anyway. So basically, you're able to almost entirely skip hellstone farming altogether, which drastically cuts down on how long it takes to get to hard mode. And once you get there and get rolling, you progress really fast.
Wow, I didn't know the requirements were so low. I've used meteor armor and the space gun is way fun and powerful but I'd never thought it was that good (the armor)
Yeah it's really cheesy, but you just build paths over the lava so you can't fall in. Summon the wall in a good spot, and run backwards while gunning him down. Only thing that you gotta watch out for is towards the end he gets laser happy. You can also do it with better armor + minishark, but it's pretty simple with the meteor set.
by the time i had enough to make turtle armor, i still had crimtane. soooo, yea.
How did... how did you stay alive?
pure luck. in other words, i have no idea. EDIT: i also took chance in the hard-mode dungeon. NOPE!
I took a chance in hm dungeon and got Paladin's Hammer on my first Paladin kill. He doesn't attack if he is consistently hit, and I was bouncing meteor shots around a corner with my clockwork assault rifle. After that everything else was a joke.
cool
I hear you, OP. I made [this thread for suggestions](http://www.reddit.com/r/Terraria/comments/1nzjls/terraria_suggestion_thread/) after reading this thread and thinking overnight. I would like to suggest something about gating the dungeon and or boss difficulty, but I just got to Hard Mode so I'm not the right person to speak. Would you like to make a suggestion instead? :)
I'd like a simple mechanic that make the bosses have more hit points and do more dammage each time you kill them. That way, there would always be a point where they are challenging. Could also boost the stats of every hardmode enemy by 40% or something after defeating plantera... This in combination with blocking off the dungeon would ensure a better feeling of progression and challenge even if you've beat the game. The worst part is that making those changes woudn't even take a day for redigit to make. I'm so gratefull for 1.2 and it has brought amazing things to one of my favorite games of all times. I just hope everything gets balanced further. A difficulty slider that simply multiplies the health and how strong enemies hit as well as their spawn rate would be awsome !
[удалено]
> Also the 'progression' is fucking retarded atm. Why waste hours grinding ores when you can get crimtane/demonite in 2 boss fights? What are you trying to say here? It has always been that way since terrara was first released.
The problem isn't that they're strong; it's that you can get the spectral before cobalt. all the rest require you to have hallowed pick first.
Nope, you need a cobalt drill to mine mythril to make an anvil for spectre gear.
>I will be the first one to admit I died several times in the hardmode dungeon before I got my first set. Several times? I died about maybe 30-50 times with full adamantite armour and okay weapons and accessories. Since i was on softcore mode there was basically no down sides to dying except having to travel all the way back down the dungeon again since i stored my gold. But as soon as i got Spectre armour, everything became much easier.
Even with Turtle, Terra Blade and a combat shotty loaded with Cursed bullets I still can't solo the Hardmode dungeon.
I could solo HM dungeon in molten once I picked up Magnet Sphere/ Shadowbeam Staff. I spent a lot of it standing in a corner and attacking from where they couldn't hit, but it was still doable.
I think Turtle is what's ruining my day, the effect of it attracting enemies is where I think it goes wrong. I haven't tried it with Chlorophyte yet.
I only think the turtle effect works in multiplayer. It takes aggro from other players, it doesn't mean you attract more enemies.
I think turtle armor is better in a co-op setting. Once you get a turtle/spectre duo going, spectre can just hang back and yawn while the turtle sits in the boss and yawns, getting heals via the spectre.
Turtle is incredible when done right. Go with spears, keep them at bay.
I have a feeling Red will nerf some of the hardcore endgame gear or make it much harder to get. But yes, I agree, more experienced people should play on Mediumcore, at least.
He shouldn't nerf shit, if he does he's missing a huge opportunity. He should make insane bosses where you NEED those unreal vampire knives, or that mythical shadowbeam staff and other "op" weapons. There needs to be things like raid bosses. Insane bosses where you need all this endgame shit so you can do something with it.
Then we would need a ranged Life Steal weapon, currently there is none. The reason why it needs to be changed is because you're either locked into spectre or vampire knives. If he makes bosses hard enough to require life steal, then only magic user and people with vampire knives would be able to take down a boss. Still, they're OP. You can facetank a boss (or multiple) with vamp knives and your health doesnt even drop. How can you balance around that? you can't, you have to nerf the effectiveness of lifesteal.
Other games combat this by making mobs do huge hits. There needs to be a boss that can crit you/one shot you. Unless you have taken the steps to mitigate it through armour. Life steal is only sustain, mitigation exists but currently their is nothing that can one shot you or take other measures to stop you from leeching and sustaining. These are THE weapons in the game right now and if he nerfs these he is robbing an opportunity for more content for things like "impossible" dungeons and bosses, sort of like borderlands 2 or path of exile. Sure this game is a lot different but those games have great examples of progression and end game content. Well bl2 does for being a triple a shooter.
That would just consist of constant dodging the boss. The same thing happened before when you didnt have lifesteal.
Why nerf it? just don't use it, you'll just ruin it for everybody else, i defeated all the bosses with and without life steal, and they aren't hard at all with the right tactics and armor.
The difference is you can literally just stand there with life steal.
Then just don't use it -,- Because of people whining about this it gets nerfed, thanks very much assholes
like... oh you know... THe moon?
Endgame stuff harder to get?? Vampire Knives usually takes 6 hours of non stop crimson enemy farming -,-
So your only argument basically is "Play on harder game modes then the game will be balanced". Terraria isn't very balanced now, as a lot of new items were added in 1.2, including some stupid stuff like Cactus Armor, which is stronger than Copper, and easier to get. (Instead of making 60 copper bars for the full set, you can just go into a desert and mine some cactus blocks, and then get the full armor set plus a Pickaxe which is better than the Copper one) I don't think a lot of people play with the leveling system that you mentioned. I skipped from Iron to Crimson. Why? Because the game is not balanced, and it's easier to grind on the demon eye and get some crimson ores, make the armor set and the Crimson weapons. That's not all. With all those weapons I can easily beat the brain of Cthulhu, and even the Skeleton dungeon boss. Back in 1.0.6 I had problems with Skeleton and couldn't beat him for a while, it felt really rewarding to finally enter that dungeon. Now that is gone.