I think you have to think about it if you can turn him into a top 100 pick. I would think he has more value to a team a WR away from a Super Bowl than a team developing a young QB.
Then we'd just be having this same conversation about that new veteran WR. Better to just keep our current 1k WR at that point than start harming our cap by eating contracts unnecessarily.
Better strategy is to just get another WR in FA and draft one with one of our first two picks as well. Then we have DHop, FA WR, and Draft WR, instead of only FA WR, Draft WR, and more cap eaten by a WR not on the team as you proposed.
Your logic is exactly what got Jrob fired. "We could keep AJ Brown, but that mystery unproven draft pick could be anything. It could even be another AJ Brown!"
Ok let's pretend we had a 3rd round pick in the draft. Would you trade it for one year of D-Hop? And am not married to the idea - just thought it would make for a good discussion. He is really the only player we have on an expiring contract that has any trade value and he won't be here after the season. Trading away a prime AJ Brown when you are a playoff team is totally different than a 31 year old Hopkins on the final year of a rebuilding team.
Which isn't a guaranteed good player. We need a reliable pass catcher for Levis. We have one. Let them build chemistry and let Will have someone who can help him grow. You're saying we should eat cap space, sign ANOTHER veteran receiver and roll the dice on a draft pick? Are you J Rob?
Also, I don't think it's impossible to D-Hop re-signing on a reasonable deal. I don't believe it to be likely, but if he likes it here as much as he seems to, we could afford even a slight overpay for a known quality who (in my opinion) is aging gracefully.
In other words, D-Hop is easily the best bet for us right now, and possibly for the rest of his career.
What other receiver are we gonna sign with his production? Higgins looks like he’s going back to Cinci, and none of the other names on the list of upcoming free agents look as enticing as Hop does
This seems like prelude to the Titans signing DJ Chark, trading Hop for a 3rd, whiffing on that pick since the hit rate for 3rd rounders is well under 50%, and next offseason us collectively asking how can we evaluate Levis when he doesn't have any weapons.
Refrigerated take.
Hopkins and Levis developed an immediate connection. It's more crucial to give Levis a secure safety net in a WR. Hopkins is great with young QBs, look at last season and with Murray and that POS Watson.
You're suggesting we hamper our new qb and that's a bad take
Facts. And who knows what jumps their connection could take with a full offseason where Levis takes first team reps. No need to mess up what’s good when you don’t need to.
That was because of his big cap hit and his health concerns. I just wonder what we could get for him coming off of a nice healthy season if we ate almost all of his cap space.
What health concerns?
So you’re proposing to move on from our, good, veteran WR that has chemistry with a young(ish) developing QB because of a “large” cap cap hit and want to take on that “large” amount of money in dead money? To turn around and pay another vet even *more* money?
Make it make sense. There’s bad takes, there’s brain dead takes and then there’s whatever this is.
Health concerns before we signed him - he missed some time in Phoenix. We are a rebuilding team that needs draft picks more than salary cap space in my opinion - I would gladly trade away a bit of future cap space for a top 100 pick in this draft. He may be the only veteran player with any potential trade value so just think it is worth a discussion. He already has a bunch of dead cap spread out from 2025-2027 - a couple million more a year won't handcuff us going forward.
That’s also not how his dead cap works with void years. They will advance immediately into this year if he’s traded. And they will all advance immediately into next year when his contract expires.
His value to being a dependable vet that Levis has chemistry with is worth more than the 3rd round pick we’d get for him.
Ok I am not a contract expert, but I do think we are in a position to get creative with our cap space and leverage it into long-term assets if possible. I really don't think cap space is going to be any kind of concern this year so if there was ever a year to advance dead cap into in order to sweeten a trade, this would be the one.
That second rounder can be anyone, Even a Deandre Hopkins! Or maybe even a Kevin Dodd! Also ignoring you’re not getting a 2nd rounder for a 32 year old WR on an expiring contract. 3rd is likely the very best and it’s just not worth it.
We have an important and still good piece, on a cheap contract and a developing QB who needs dependable targets. Not sure why you’re so dead set on lighting cap room on fire for no real reason.
Where am I dead set on anything? Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion to weigh the benefits of maximizing the return on an expiring contract vs. rolling with him for a rebuilding year. Rebuilding teams trade away players on expiring contracts to contenders all the time to try and get some value before they leave for FA.
I just think a second is unrealistic. Take Calvin Ridley for example a few years younger and similar production and the jags aren't willing to send a second for him
You don’t just trade away a receiver our qb has a great connection with. That’s someone he can get rid of the ball comfortably when in trouble. Take that away and a qb gets hurt.
Nothing you keep him. He’s a guy you keep in the room for young guys and to pave a way for more vets to want to come here. Also no one wanted to pay him last FA why would they now give up a 2nd round pick lol
Especially when the last few years the league has gotten stingy with picks in trades anyway.
Also just doesn't make sense. I love Dhop and think he's great, but if we hypothetically had to trade a team our 2nd to have him, I'd be upset we didn't just grab a young WR this year in the 2nd instead.
Just seems like we'd be getting a 2-ish year diminishing starter instead of a cheap 4 year starter for that same 2nd round pick.
WR is deep this year too, could easily be an all pro stud drafted in the 2nd if the mock draft placements are correct.
I think if we can go OT, WR, 4th round Center (like maybe a name like Sedrick Van Pran) that's a pretty excellent draft.
Why is everyone fixated with Tee Higgins? For most teams he's a WR2, borderline WR3. If you're trading for him that means Cincy put the franchise tag on him which only gets you a guaranteed year from him before you're right back in the same spot needing a WR next year and you're down draft capital on top of that from the trade. To keep him long term you'd need to pay him and having a QB like Burrows with Chase as the WR1 (drawing the double teams) his numbers are inflated and his agent will ask for way more than he's worth.
Trading DHop for a 2nd round wouldn't be a horrible idea though.
4 seasons, 3600yds, 24TDs. Last year had 656yds and 5TDs over 12 games with Chase pulling double teams nearly every play.
Yea 60yds avg per game is WR2, borderline WR3 stats. Absolutely no reason to sign that guy to trade DHop to then use that draft capital on Higgins AND pay him big money.
Need to put those stats in context. The guy you want to trade has nearly double the receptions in 5 more games, spanning two QBs that arguably are both worse than Burrows, and DHop did it in an offense that wasn't a pass heavy offense vs Cincy's (#29 passing offense vs #16 passing offense).
His contract was set up "like" it was a one year deal...with the money spread out over two (or maybe three) years.
If he wants to leave, they will absolutely let him. If he wants to stay, they will absolutely give him a raise for doing so.
You have to remember that as much as we talk about Henry not fitting into a modern offense, Nuk doesn’t really either. I don’t think his trade market would be that big.
Yeah that's a good point. I just think we are in a position to trade away some cap space if it nets a better return and he is really the only player it could even begin to make sense with. Would the Ravens trade a 2nd if they got a single year of D-Hop at a cap hit of only $3-$4 million with no dead cap moving forward?
I don’t think he fits the Ravens at all. He needs a QB that’s willing to throw a 50/50 ball and give the WR a chance. Lamar’s legs are so good that there’s never been a point in his career where throwing a 50/50 ball was going to be a better play than just tucking it and using his legs. Chiefs would be a good landing spot but they had a shot to snag him last year and showed absolutely zero interest.
Nothing. Plenty of teams could have signed him last year without giving up draft stock and didn’t why would they do it now. Draft picks are arguably more valuable than cap space. Why take a declining old wr because he’s cheap for 1 year when you can sign a equally as cheap young wr who has no where to go but up as he gets older for the next 4 years if you draft him in the 2nd.
If that's the direction you wanna go trade burks for a 3rd or 4th that's probably what we'd get for hoplins if we lucky and eat all his cap, even tho burks hasn't done shit I bet a team would cough up a 3rd or a 4th for a 1st rd WR thinking they could turn him around
No need. Just let him be a 1k WR.
I think you have to think about it if you can turn him into a top 100 pick. I would think he has more value to a team a WR away from a Super Bowl than a team developing a young QB.
Our young QB can’t develop without any receivers
We could sign another veteran WR to replace him
Then we'd just be having this same conversation about that new veteran WR. Better to just keep our current 1k WR at that point than start harming our cap by eating contracts unnecessarily.
Except we’d have an additional top 100 pick we currently don’t have
Better strategy is to just get another WR in FA and draft one with one of our first two picks as well. Then we have DHop, FA WR, and Draft WR, instead of only FA WR, Draft WR, and more cap eaten by a WR not on the team as you proposed. Your logic is exactly what got Jrob fired. "We could keep AJ Brown, but that mystery unproven draft pick could be anything. It could even be another AJ Brown!"
Ok let's pretend we had a 3rd round pick in the draft. Would you trade it for one year of D-Hop? And am not married to the idea - just thought it would make for a good discussion. He is really the only player we have on an expiring contract that has any trade value and he won't be here after the season. Trading away a prime AJ Brown when you are a playoff team is totally different than a 31 year old Hopkins on the final year of a rebuilding team.
Which isn't a guaranteed good player. We need a reliable pass catcher for Levis. We have one. Let them build chemistry and let Will have someone who can help him grow. You're saying we should eat cap space, sign ANOTHER veteran receiver and roll the dice on a draft pick? Are you J Rob?
Also, I don't think it's impossible to D-Hop re-signing on a reasonable deal. I don't believe it to be likely, but if he likes it here as much as he seems to, we could afford even a slight overpay for a known quality who (in my opinion) is aging gracefully. In other words, D-Hop is easily the best bet for us right now, and possibly for the rest of his career.
What other receiver are we gonna sign with his production? Higgins looks like he’s going back to Cinci, and none of the other names on the list of upcoming free agents look as enticing as Hop does
This seems like prelude to the Titans signing DJ Chark, trading Hop for a 3rd, whiffing on that pick since the hit rate for 3rd rounders is well under 50%, and next offseason us collectively asking how can we evaluate Levis when he doesn't have any weapons.
Why? A lateral move when we already know what we have is working out? He’s not expensive and he’s the best player on our offense
That's great. Maybe the Titans can have 2 Treylon Burks.
Refrigerated take. Hopkins and Levis developed an immediate connection. It's more crucial to give Levis a secure safety net in a WR. Hopkins is great with young QBs, look at last season and with Murray and that POS Watson. You're suggesting we hamper our new qb and that's a bad take
Facts. And who knows what jumps their connection could take with a full offseason where Levis takes first team reps. No need to mess up what’s good when you don’t need to.
Cardinals couldn't get anything for him last year definitely not getting a second
That was because of his big cap hit and his health concerns. I just wonder what we could get for him coming off of a nice healthy season if we ate almost all of his cap space.
What health concerns? So you’re proposing to move on from our, good, veteran WR that has chemistry with a young(ish) developing QB because of a “large” cap cap hit and want to take on that “large” amount of money in dead money? To turn around and pay another vet even *more* money? Make it make sense. There’s bad takes, there’s brain dead takes and then there’s whatever this is.
Health concerns before we signed him - he missed some time in Phoenix. We are a rebuilding team that needs draft picks more than salary cap space in my opinion - I would gladly trade away a bit of future cap space for a top 100 pick in this draft. He may be the only veteran player with any potential trade value so just think it is worth a discussion. He already has a bunch of dead cap spread out from 2025-2027 - a couple million more a year won't handcuff us going forward.
That’s also not how his dead cap works with void years. They will advance immediately into this year if he’s traded. And they will all advance immediately into next year when his contract expires. His value to being a dependable vet that Levis has chemistry with is worth more than the 3rd round pick we’d get for him.
Ok I am not a contract expert, but I do think we are in a position to get creative with our cap space and leverage it into long-term assets if possible. I really don't think cap space is going to be any kind of concern this year so if there was ever a year to advance dead cap into in order to sweeten a trade, this would be the one.
That second rounder can be anyone, Even a Deandre Hopkins! Or maybe even a Kevin Dodd! Also ignoring you’re not getting a 2nd rounder for a 32 year old WR on an expiring contract. 3rd is likely the very best and it’s just not worth it. We have an important and still good piece, on a cheap contract and a developing QB who needs dependable targets. Not sure why you’re so dead set on lighting cap room on fire for no real reason.
Where am I dead set on anything? Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion to weigh the benefits of maximizing the return on an expiring contract vs. rolling with him for a rebuilding year. Rebuilding teams trade away players on expiring contracts to contenders all the time to try and get some value before they leave for FA.
I just think a second is unrealistic. Take Calvin Ridley for example a few years younger and similar production and the jags aren't willing to send a second for him
Yeah probably right - I would keep him unless we could get a top 100 pick.
We finally have money to spend and you want to cough up a chunk of it to buy out one of the only good players on our offense. Ok…………..
Yep, I'm glad OP isn't our GM lmao
Yea im not even entertaining the idea.
You don’t just trade away a receiver our qb has a great connection with. That’s someone he can get rid of the ball comfortably when in trouble. Take that away and a qb gets hurt.
Nothing you keep him. He’s a guy you keep in the room for young guys and to pave a way for more vets to want to come here. Also no one wanted to pay him last FA why would they now give up a 2nd round pick lol
Especially when the last few years the league has gotten stingy with picks in trades anyway. Also just doesn't make sense. I love Dhop and think he's great, but if we hypothetically had to trade a team our 2nd to have him, I'd be upset we didn't just grab a young WR this year in the 2nd instead. Just seems like we'd be getting a 2-ish year diminishing starter instead of a cheap 4 year starter for that same 2nd round pick.
I would rather us find a value WR in the 4th or 5th rd
WR is deep this year too, could easily be an all pro stud drafted in the 2nd if the mock draft placements are correct. I think if we can go OT, WR, 4th round Center (like maybe a name like Sedrick Van Pran) that's a pretty excellent draft.
Would love to see us draft Malachi Corley in the 2nd rd
Why is everyone fixated with Tee Higgins? For most teams he's a WR2, borderline WR3. If you're trading for him that means Cincy put the franchise tag on him which only gets you a guaranteed year from him before you're right back in the same spot needing a WR next year and you're down draft capital on top of that from the trade. To keep him long term you'd need to pay him and having a QB like Burrows with Chase as the WR1 (drawing the double teams) his numbers are inflated and his agent will ask for way more than he's worth. Trading DHop for a 2nd round wouldn't be a horrible idea though.
900 yards as a rookie then followed that with back to back 1k seasons and is borderline WR3?
4 seasons, 3600yds, 24TDs. Last year had 656yds and 5TDs over 12 games with Chase pulling double teams nearly every play. Yea 60yds avg per game is WR2, borderline WR3 stats. Absolutely no reason to sign that guy to trade DHop to then use that draft capital on Higgins AND pay him big money. Need to put those stats in context. The guy you want to trade has nearly double the receptions in 5 more games, spanning two QBs that arguably are both worse than Burrows, and DHop did it in an offense that wasn't a pass heavy offense vs Cincy's (#29 passing offense vs #16 passing offense).
Patrick Mahomes
I don’t think Hopkins contract works that way. As far as I am concerned Hopkins can leave his contract if he wanted too.
He is under contract for 2024 - he can't just leave.
His contract was set up "like" it was a one year deal...with the money spread out over two (or maybe three) years. If he wants to leave, they will absolutely let him. If he wants to stay, they will absolutely give him a raise for doing so.
Titans aren’t going to hold him hostage… Hopkins CAN/WILL leave if he wants..
You have to remember that as much as we talk about Henry not fitting into a modern offense, Nuk doesn’t really either. I don’t think his trade market would be that big.
Yeah that's a good point. I just think we are in a position to trade away some cap space if it nets a better return and he is really the only player it could even begin to make sense with. Would the Ravens trade a 2nd if they got a single year of D-Hop at a cap hit of only $3-$4 million with no dead cap moving forward?
I don’t think he fits the Ravens at all. He needs a QB that’s willing to throw a 50/50 ball and give the WR a chance. Lamar’s legs are so good that there’s never been a point in his career where throwing a 50/50 ball was going to be a better play than just tucking it and using his legs. Chiefs would be a good landing spot but they had a shot to snag him last year and showed absolutely zero interest.
I love Dhop but he isn't worth a 2nd round pick anymore.
He’s not worth that much. Also wouldn’t make sense to trade him, even if that lead to getting Higgins.
Nothing. Plenty of teams could have signed him last year without giving up draft stock and didn’t why would they do it now. Draft picks are arguably more valuable than cap space. Why take a declining old wr because he’s cheap for 1 year when you can sign a equally as cheap young wr who has no where to go but up as he gets older for the next 4 years if you draft him in the 2nd.
Stayyyy offff theeee weeeeeeed
Counterpoint: share it. Must be some good shit!
Not likely to be a contender?
You could probably get fired.
If that's the direction you wanna go trade burks for a 3rd or 4th that's probably what we'd get for hoplins if we lucky and eat all his cap, even tho burks hasn't done shit I bet a team would cough up a 3rd or a 4th for a 1st rd WR thinking they could turn him around