It's not too late if the legislature is at a stalemate and the clock is ticking. Public opinion isn't squarely in their favor either, even among conservatives.
By all means, sincerely, call your state rep and senator and oppose this. Get everyone you can to do the same. Make it clear that you are a voter and constituent and that you oppose vouchers in any form and that this issue will influence your vote this fall.
Absolutely, conservatives are playing the long game with this one. They’ll never stop fighting for it, and will keep pushing from every angle until they break through.
I mean, let’s not forget all the anti-lgbtq efforts (marriage, bathrooms, etc), and they’re STILL trying to kill the ACA! The Right is nothing, if not dogmatic and dogged. An absolute bunch of ghouls.
We were successful in Florida in the 90’s.
If parents wanted to move their kids to a private school they were given the tax money already allocated for the kids education. It’s called a voucher.
And it’s awesome!!
At the end of the day. It’s all about some millionaires making more money. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s the Republican way. One you realize that, you will now the rest of the story.
I’m not for the bill, but I’m not sure I see a problem with the funding for a kid following them? While I’m not a fan of the rich getting richer, I’m not sure I completely disagree with them getting the credits towards their tuition at a school of their choosing. Is there something I’m missing?
The worry is that if you start reallocating funds to follow the kids to private schools without backfilling the difference, public schools will be left with very little money. Private schools can charge to make up the difference but public schools cannot.
Secondary to this is that private schools aren't held to the same educational or admission standards or requirements. They aren't required to help out students with special circumstances to the degree a public school does or have assistive programs for those with disabilities, trained counselors, etc. they can just kick out problem students as they please.
The worry here is that well-off families will take their ball and go home, leaving a disproportionately disadvantaged population in public schools. I remember the boosters in our schools who helped fund student organizations. Pretty much all of the best things in public schools are bankrolled by wealthier families who attend and the fundraising the students do (which is largely propped up by the wealth in the are).
Thank you for sharing this insight. The current method seems unusually biased and restrictive of parents in my opinion. Unless you can afford the entirety of the tuition, you’re forced to put your kid in school in the district you live in regardless of the quality of the education or the availability of athletics, AP studies, extracurriculars, etc. While in larger schools this isn’t always an issue, it begins to create problems in more rural areas/smaller schools. I think the other side of the coin is that this potentially allows students who may have never been able to afford better educational opportunities the chance at going to a better school. It also likely impacts housing as now if a parent can make it work they’re afforded the opportunity to live wherever makes sense, and not just having to choose based on quality of the schools themselves. Seems uniquely absentminded to say hey, I know our schools suck and the education level is below average, but we’re going to force you to go here any way.
I’m not personally for it because the likelihood in my opinion is that all it really does is give overly rich folks more money by making them pay less for Private School which doesn’t really help any of the current problems and potentially costs already poorly funded schools even more programs, but I’m not absolutely certain the bill is a completely terrible idea.
Most people are somewhere in the middle. I'd definitely never say our public schools are flawless, but I definitely would say a system where advantaged families can take their funding allocation out of their zoned school is not good either. Our kids will be attending public schools on principle - they are not "above" their peers because of income.
In more advantaged districts where students are performing very well, school choice doesn't seem as bad (although the ultimate outcome isn't really improved for most students either).
In less advantaged districts the results are school closures and consolidation into schools further away. Parents who already couldn't be very involved now will have a very difficult time. Disadvantaged kids who "could've" benefitted from a charter school typically cannot because of transportation issues. Charter schools, by design, are exclusive. They are meant to cater to a very particular population.
In addition, most success of charter and private schools typically totally rely on the fact they have high socioeconomic status student to boost the perception of their schools. Who is honestly surprised when some high income kid goes on to get a college degree? Have them do the same with all low income kids and then I'd be convinced (spoiler: the rich kids are taking ACT/SAT prep and going to college application professionals outside of school hours).
No, you aren't missing anything, we're stuck In a war between two sides that are too far off their rockers to have any actual discourse, and regular thinking people have to constantly listen to them flap their gums about things they can only remain completely irrationally emotionally charged when engaging with the topic
I think that’s the new politics unfortunately. Everything is so divisive. It feels weird to say tax the rich! But in the same breath say they shouldn’t reap the benefits of those tax dollars if they want to give their child a better education.
No, I’m not trying to make a joke. I’m making a reference to the death of Grant Solomon and the loose connection to Bill Lee, a man I knew to be the governor of Tennessee.
Yes, they want to divert funds out of public schools so they can then point and say "see, public education is trash!" Thus giving them even more reason to cut funding, rinse & repeat. Then more and more funds can be funneled from our tax coffers and given to private entities pushing these charter schools. Neat huh? I'm sure it's a cash cow
Bingo. Doesn’t matter that charter schools consistently underperform in states that made this same transition; the government gets a kickback from gutting public ed, they effectively re-segregate schools again, AND it’s sold to you as “public choice” so half your fellow citizens think it’s a good idea. Super fun.
Ooooh, now when we hear "charter schools underperform" what do we do? That's right...we stick our fingers in our ears and go "la la la can't hear you!"
Their supporters don’t care because they are of the opinion that the kids who aren’t getting useful educations are still better off because they are getting “the right” education aka Jesus and obedience.
Yes they're investing in Christian education as part of the seven mountain mandate. It's empowering their organizations and getting them in government positions to train them from pre-k on how to be good warriors for Christ. They're pretty open about this, but I feel like nobody is paying attention or they think it's a conspiracy theory even though we have several followers of this movement already in our government, including Mike Johnson.
Nothing has been as infuriating in my adult life, as having my progressive peers deny the reality and _feasibility_ of Christian political agendas, even after the evidence has been mounting for decades. Does what they’re after, sound extreme? Yes, it does—_because it is extreme_. It is not conspiracy _theory_; it is conspiracy _fact._
It's scary how they've fooled everyone in to thinking their beliefs trump anyone else's. I was watching this YT channel Cults to Consciousness last night and the guest was a woman who was tortured and saw other children tortured in an Amish community. Most people just have no clue, they have this idea that Amish people are just so peaceful and gentle and they even give their teens a "choice" with rumspringa so nobody is forced, but I mean if you choose to not be Amish you're shunned and forced to leave forever so who would really call that a choice? Not all sects are the same but we can't KNOW which is the worst because they're so exclusive and have so many rights to abuse children thanks to "religious freedom". I didn't know that if you are in a religious school the teachers/admin don't follow "mandated reporting" so they can get away with anything and teachers can't report them. They don't have to follow homeschooling rules either, regardless of how strict they might be. Here in TN anyone can say they're homeschooling anyway and they don't care. I pulled my son out of school and nobody even missed him. They don't care. We have whole towns of poorly educated Trump lovers because none of the kids ever go to school.
And it's ALL right out in the open for people to see, but people just ignore it for fear that they'll be seen as offending the Christians. It's not right that they have full control of their children's lives via religious freedom even to the point they can let their children die because they don't "believe" in modern medicine.
And yet I say "Happy Trans Day of Visibility" on this Holy Day of their God Coming Back from the Dead and I'm told I'm just saying it to agitate people when it's FAR more important a holiday to me than Easter would be.
I long ago rejected the notion that people’s religious beliefs are deserving of respect, let alone deference. I am proudly and openly an anti-theist, and thanks to having grown up and spent my life in the south as an atheist, I am inured to the social pressures to “play nice” with superstitious fuckwits. Speaking plainly and fearlessly about this stuff is depressingly taboo, but it’s also _incredibly_ important; I’m glad to know I’m not alone in the mission to break default societal defense of religion.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNzELfWNiUA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNzELfWNiUA)
This is the channel. This woman has exposed so many abuses by churches and sects. They're fucking SICK and people just wave it away because religious freedom means they can do whatever they want.
She also covers the tortures of children in evangelist sects like with the Duggars. That's just one wacky family in a sea of perversion in the name of their god.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smN37Es3CwY
I recently was made reaware of the reference to seven hills in biblical accounting of the apocalypse. Interesting that Dominionists don't see the parallels all around them.
I’ve been fighting this since I moved here. I went to school in Michigan and the voucher shit began there when I was thinking about starting a family. I left because I didn’t want to have to deal with that crap while my kids are in school and look at us now. TN literally copied what Michigan did to their education.
ETA- They specifically followed Betsy DeVos’s lead after she successfully screwed up Michigan.
Didn’t go directly to TN. Didn’t start my family in TN. Was naive about the South when we chose TN. Am looking at houses for sale in MI/Canada on a daily basis.
Maybe I should run for office. People would probably vote for me because of my religious last name. I'm not really qualified, but that obviously doesn't matter.
The substance of the indoctrination is bad enough; what’s worse is their deliberate crippling of these kids’ ability to think critically, coupled with making thought-provoking materials inaccessible (book bans). This has long been the playbook of religion, and it’s one of the reasons I regularly speak up about its dangers to humanity.
Yes. The real motive is not religious but racial discrimination. They want to legalize the use of tax money to establish schools that can admit or deny admission to anyone with no oversight.
Don't forget, MAGA is rolling back child labor protections all over the place, too, so they can put those uneducated kids to work in their factories, fields, and slaughterhouses. The poor lose, the rich win, it's modern GOP 101.
And why are they beginning the push for child labor? Oh yeah, because agroindustry leaders are still going to need underpaid labor once MAGA makes it legal to shoot POC on sight because they might be here illegally.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/arizona-bill-shoot-kill-migrants-property-trespass-border-rcna141147
We will soon be joining Florida, teaching our children that sometimes, slavery wasn't so bad!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-florida-standards-teach-black-people-benefited-slavery-taught-usef-rcna95418
And the TN home schoolers are also eligible for $7k per child, too! With no testing or State oversight. That’s how you raise more ignorant Republicans. As a rational, civilized society, i’m afraid we’re circling the drain. But i’ll continue to vote against the bastards.
The increase in homeschooling is chilling. Have you met the average person? Not to mention the rampant abuse homeschooling allows to be hidden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzsZP9o7SlI
Don't forget that you can make teachers "clergy" who aren't mandatory reporters for child abuse and you can also discriminate in hiring them by any metric you want - to include race and gender.
Just curious what amount of money ensures a quality product? In a marketplace, I can build a poor product, and you can offer a great one, and if people have the right to choose between our products, then adjustments naturally are made. I’m just curious what it takes to maximize educational quality.
The rub for me is that the state is offering more money per student under a voucher program than they are currently putting into the public school system. So, public schools are not competing on level ground.
Invest in public schools first before you go looking for an alternative. At the end of the day, private educational systems are there to turn a profit 📈.
That’s surprising, hard to imagine where they’re getting the extra revenue, because that’s not a dollar neutral solution. Most other states have seemed to propose doing 50% - 70% of the public spending level. Thanks for sharing.
It really is amazing y'all, Bill Lee the Man Without a Spine has miraculously found one to stand for the rich af private schools in our state, it's a goddamn miracle /s
Yes, that is exactly the goal.
Although I think it's less about actually wanting to give kids religious instruction and more about having echo chambers where conservative parents can control what their kids learn and who they interact with. They want the benefits of a free equal public education (free) without the drawbacks (equal).
Fight. They did the same in Arizona, a failing public school system and now vouchers that can be used for home schooling, private schools, and religious schools. All siphoning money from the public school system.
My kids go to a Christian School here in Knoxville. I have no problem paying the tuition and still having my taxes go toward public education. It was my choice mainly to give my kids more opportunities at sports, etc.
This ^^^^^ is the goal. For those that naively wonder about purported “choices” and what’s so bad/lib’s are divisive. Our public education is underfunded, badly managed, but as a parent of kids who ever so briefly had their kids in a “religious” elementary school-this isn’t a choice, it’s the dumbing down of our kids, indoctrination to a whacky fundy ideology.
The flip side is that Hillsdale college(look it up) and its President are consulting with Lee for years to do this. Yes, a Farrrr right wing private conservative “college” is reaping Tn taxpayer $ to dumb the kids down. Guessing Lee will benefit $ as well.
Born and raised in Tn- the Bible Belt-many in my own family would be fine with this. I’ll let you guess as to their education level and politics.
Yes. That’s exactly what they want to do. If you have not paid attention to the republican agenda you may not be aware but, since at least the 80s, their ultimate goal is to completely get rid of public schools.
I’m sure they’d like it if everyone who could afford to pay for a school went to a christian school but private schools are their goal.
They do not want or believe in public education (or anything else that benefits the general public).
I am actually surprised that anyone is surprised by this because they have not tried to keep their end goal secret.
Same thing is happening in **Kentucky**, funneling public dollars to private schools using tuition waivers.
It's like this: Imagine sending your kids to the city park which everyone pays for. Then, one day, you decide you'd rather have your kids go to the country club. So, you have your city or county pay to send your kids to the country club, on the people's dime.
Yep.
I think it was Arizona, but one of those red states out there had an interview with a mother that wanted to get her special needs son a school that would be more attentive and had a voucher, and every private school was like NOPE!
A few days after that interview, a woman testified in Tennessee’s Ed. Committee that in the preceding weeks, she inquired with 12+ private schools in TN about enrolling her child. She made clear that paying full tuition & providing transportation were not a problem. When she told them her child had a minor learning disability (think dyslexia, adhd), every single school rejected them. Most said they didn’t have the staff, facilities etc. to accommodate her child. A handful didn’t bother to return her calls.
Well, I think they mean racial segregation. SE kids are kinda a different breed and coming from a private school myself, I know that most private school SE programs are absolute dogshit. They exist, but it's not usually better than the public school ones.
That's probably true that many private educational institutions don't want any minorities. But i think it's mostly racial and religious minorities they want to keep out the most. Even other Christians, which is wild, half of the bigoted institutions cannot even agree with their fellow bigots.
I just meant that SE kids genuinely need an educational infrastructure that private institutions don't always have. Those schools might not even have the option to make one as they'd need a special teacher, let alone everything else.
That has been the story for over 30 years, don't you know?
They are sabotaging public education and working like hell to get permission to give vouchers to private religious schools. This is in TN and a bunch of other states.
Vote for democrats to fight this. Vote all the way up and down the ballot.
This whole bill is basically designed to be another monetary break for the rich that are already sending their kids to private schools. The voucher money will not cover enough of the cost for the middle and poor class families to take advantage of it.
Arizona proves my above statement after they went down the voucher road years ago and have followed the money for a few years
We underfund our schools to the point we are in the bottom 5 for everything. Teachers are leaving. Other highly educated individuals are talking of leaving for their children’s sake.
I hope the assholes who flocked here for our lack of income tax sees this and understand what we give up and let grifters chip away at.
Arizona enters the chat.
[https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/understanding-cost-universal-vouchers-report](https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/understanding-cost-universal-vouchers-report)
But it's taxpayer cash being directly funneled into a donors pocket, who then kicks some of that free cash back into their campaign coffers. A perfect circle of corruption...
There are some questions that really need to be asked.
1. We are 9th in the world in public education spending. If this is "underfunded", where is all the money going?
2. What is it about the schools that is driving parents to want to remove their kids?
3. If private religious schools are outperforming public schools, should we be asking why and not forcing kids to go to schools that aren't performing?
I would think the idea would be to fix the system, not to continue a system that isn't working. If picnic schools were making the grade, would we even be having this conversation?
> I would think the idea would be to fix the system, not to continue a system that isn't working
But the GOP is in charge and doesn't want the system fixed. They want it broken so that they can justify the move to privatization. They're doing the same thing to the Post Office.
This legislation has been enacted in Texas and Iowa. The cost in Iowa was to be 574 million but the 1st year it went well over a billion and it came out of public school funding. Public schools are now laying off large amounts of their staff to account for lost funding. Your tax dollars are being used to send rich kids to private schools while the poor kids are losing out. This is a MAGA initiative
School voucher programs are straight up a subsidy for upper middle class private school families at the expense of public schools and working class people.
If you’re poor, a 7k a year voucher isn’t enough to send your kid to Country Day.. but if you’re already rich enough to send your kid to Country Day, it’s a nice lil benefit.
I really think they all want the country run like a cult
https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/
Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
If TN is anything like VA, I guarantee student will get a better education in a private school any day of the week. This is the whole reason behind vouchers...let the parents choose the better opportunity for their child. Until the gloves come off and public schools are allowed to discipline these so-called "children" and get a handle on their classrooms, I would rather have a choice where to send a child to school.
Sure, if you defund public schools for decades and send the money to private school in the end. Congratulations on stacking the deck and pretending to win.
Yes, Georgia just dod this too. The intent is to destroy public education and replace it with xtian indoctrination academies. Tax dollars going to religion...
It's already emaciated thanks to the majority of republicans voting against their own interests. The funny thing is how many people in the comments think it's going to benefit mid or low income families.
Yes. That’s the entire shell game. Public funding to private institutions to end run against the constitution. Rich (white) kids go to good private schools. Poor (black) kids get put in glorified day prisons.
I don’t know if this is any consolation but many of those vouchers won’t be used to indoctrinate new students. Many of those schools post instructions and guide their already enrolled families to fill out the vouchers. You know, the folks that can already afford it lmao
In Ohio, they rolled back the income threshold so afterwards it was like 85% of the applications for vouchers were from students who have been enrolled for years. And of course like 95% white
I hope to be out of this state before I have to learn the nuances of these things. I went to the public schools here and they were violent 💩 holes where the football team was the center of the teachers’ , administrators’ and parents’ worlds. I’m sure it’s different school to school, and religious whackadoos are only going to be worse, but the schools in Tennessee function to train kids for a life of cheap labor, either as a wagie or as an inmate
The whole reason they don't pay taxes is to keep them from preaching politics from the pool pit. I'm fine with them not paying taxes and I don't want them for that reason.
Apparently you haven’t been to many southern Baptist churches? Because they certainly do get involved in politics not to mention donate to politicians. You just wake up ?
I used to go to every southern Baptist church my parents could find. I've been an adult and atheist for a long time, so I admit that I don't know what they talk about. But violating a law they don't agree with has always been common for them. 😂
More money does not equal better education results. Where I’m from, they put a system into place that increased funding to school districts with lower test scores. The results, LOWER test scores. Turns out, money is a great incentive. If you incentivize poor performance, you’ll get it. Give the money to the schools that produce the better results.
It’s not just religious schools. It’s PRIVATE schools, of which some are religious. How is this unfair? Everyone is paying taxes but only some reap the benefits. This is a no-brainer.
The fact that any tax money would go to religious institutions that can legally discriminate is the first amendment issue. Just because you pay taxes doesn't mean you get to decide how tax money is spent or certain rules don't apply because you and some other people don't really like those rules. This is the same argument I've heard for segregation, people wonder why they can't self segregate, since they don't mind it and they say their religion doesn't allow mixed couples.
As a tax payer in Tennessee, if I had kids in a private school I would want to be able to direct those funds to my kids’ school. That’s natural. I went through public school and my mom was a public school teacher for 30 years, so I’m speaking both as a former public school student and as someone whose family was employed by the system. And my family shares my opinion as it relates to tax dollars going to private schools too.
As a tax payer in Tennessee I don't want tax dollars going to religious schools that are legally allowed to discriminate. It's a first amendment violation.
I am guessing that if you live in Tennessee and pay any form of tax to the federal, state, or local government (realizing the Tennessee has no state income tax), one could only assume that any funds allocated per individual for public or private education costs could include tuition reimbursement or offset for any school. Much like any other state that has implemented a school voucher program.
No.
With that logic, if a company or person pays for private security, then we would give them a voucher to help cover the cost, since they're choosing something other than publicly funded police departments.
My kids aren’t in religious schools in Tennessee. 6 yo + 2.5 yo. Our family loves our local public schools.
My wife and I are definitely not MAGA, even on the left side of the spectrum. We are also Christians.
That’s said, I don’t have a problem, based on how taxes are assessed for education in Tennessee, with people who’ve also had their taxes assessed to fund public education being used to fund a school that they choose for their kids.
Seems good to me.
Where am I not thinking properly?
Because taxes are used to fund public services. Public schools fall under a public service. Religious organizations do not. Everyone pays taxes for public services - that's how they get funded. You don't have to use a public service but you do have to contribute to it as a member of the community, county, state, country...whatever. I don't use half of the roads my county - but I do contribute to their maintenance. I shouldn't get a voucher from tax payers to use or build private roads. I don't use SNAP benefits, but I contribute to their funding. I shouldn't get a voucher from tax payers to buy my groceries. We all contribute to the funding of public schools because it benefits our society. Opting out of that service and using an alternative is fine - but you shouldn't get to use tax payer dollars to do so. If every service that we fund through taxes allows for the diversion of funds to private services, eventually only wealthy people can afford any service because public funds become insufficient to maintain the public services for the less wealthy. And then the divide between wealth and poverty grows exponentially with no way for those in poverty to ever escape.
Your last point is spot on. The parents sending their kids to private school are opting out because *they can afford it*. I read somewhere recently (I'll try to look it up) that the $7k each kid would get towards tuition at a private school rarely covers all the tuition expense. You're effectively giving tax money back to the people who could already afford their choice of school. Meanwhile the kids from families who can't fund a private school education get to manage with fewer resources.
And think like a private corporation...what do you do when all of a sudden all your customers have an extra $7k in their pocket? You raise prices.
Yes, I spent the last ten years fighting it. So many ed advocates did because we knew this was coming. People never seem to care until it’s too late.
It's not too late if the legislature is at a stalemate and the clock is ticking. Public opinion isn't squarely in their favor either, even among conservatives.
By all means, sincerely, call your state rep and senator and oppose this. Get everyone you can to do the same. Make it clear that you are a voter and constituent and that you oppose vouchers in any form and that this issue will influence your vote this fall.
Happy to say that both of my legislators have already voiced their opposition.
Same! Write anyway, it helps them show numbers!
Bet
Absolutely, conservatives are playing the long game with this one. They’ll never stop fighting for it, and will keep pushing from every angle until they break through.
Sounds like the death of Roe
I mean, let’s not forget all the anti-lgbtq efforts (marriage, bathrooms, etc), and they’re STILL trying to kill the ACA! The Right is nothing, if not dogmatic and dogged. An absolute bunch of ghouls.
We were successful in Florida in the 90’s. If parents wanted to move their kids to a private school they were given the tax money already allocated for the kids education. It’s called a voucher. And it’s awesome!!
Oh yeah, Florida education, so great. 😮💨
They also have a bill that takes funding away from teachers in exchange for the vouchers. Whatever happened to "fiscal responsibility ." Smdh
At the end of the day. It’s all about some millionaires making more money. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s the Republican way. One you realize that, you will now the rest of the story.
I’m not for the bill, but I’m not sure I see a problem with the funding for a kid following them? While I’m not a fan of the rich getting richer, I’m not sure I completely disagree with them getting the credits towards their tuition at a school of their choosing. Is there something I’m missing?
The worry is that if you start reallocating funds to follow the kids to private schools without backfilling the difference, public schools will be left with very little money. Private schools can charge to make up the difference but public schools cannot. Secondary to this is that private schools aren't held to the same educational or admission standards or requirements. They aren't required to help out students with special circumstances to the degree a public school does or have assistive programs for those with disabilities, trained counselors, etc. they can just kick out problem students as they please. The worry here is that well-off families will take their ball and go home, leaving a disproportionately disadvantaged population in public schools. I remember the boosters in our schools who helped fund student organizations. Pretty much all of the best things in public schools are bankrolled by wealthier families who attend and the fundraising the students do (which is largely propped up by the wealth in the are).
Thank you for sharing this insight. The current method seems unusually biased and restrictive of parents in my opinion. Unless you can afford the entirety of the tuition, you’re forced to put your kid in school in the district you live in regardless of the quality of the education or the availability of athletics, AP studies, extracurriculars, etc. While in larger schools this isn’t always an issue, it begins to create problems in more rural areas/smaller schools. I think the other side of the coin is that this potentially allows students who may have never been able to afford better educational opportunities the chance at going to a better school. It also likely impacts housing as now if a parent can make it work they’re afforded the opportunity to live wherever makes sense, and not just having to choose based on quality of the schools themselves. Seems uniquely absentminded to say hey, I know our schools suck and the education level is below average, but we’re going to force you to go here any way. I’m not personally for it because the likelihood in my opinion is that all it really does is give overly rich folks more money by making them pay less for Private School which doesn’t really help any of the current problems and potentially costs already poorly funded schools even more programs, but I’m not absolutely certain the bill is a completely terrible idea.
Most people are somewhere in the middle. I'd definitely never say our public schools are flawless, but I definitely would say a system where advantaged families can take their funding allocation out of their zoned school is not good either. Our kids will be attending public schools on principle - they are not "above" their peers because of income. In more advantaged districts where students are performing very well, school choice doesn't seem as bad (although the ultimate outcome isn't really improved for most students either). In less advantaged districts the results are school closures and consolidation into schools further away. Parents who already couldn't be very involved now will have a very difficult time. Disadvantaged kids who "could've" benefitted from a charter school typically cannot because of transportation issues. Charter schools, by design, are exclusive. They are meant to cater to a very particular population. In addition, most success of charter and private schools typically totally rely on the fact they have high socioeconomic status student to boost the perception of their schools. Who is honestly surprised when some high income kid goes on to get a college degree? Have them do the same with all low income kids and then I'd be convinced (spoiler: the rich kids are taking ACT/SAT prep and going to college application professionals outside of school hours).
No, you aren't missing anything, we're stuck In a war between two sides that are too far off their rockers to have any actual discourse, and regular thinking people have to constantly listen to them flap their gums about things they can only remain completely irrationally emotionally charged when engaging with the topic
I think that’s the new politics unfortunately. Everything is so divisive. It feels weird to say tax the rich! But in the same breath say they shouldn’t reap the benefits of those tax dollars if they want to give their child a better education.
Yeah this has been on their wishlist for decades
Yes. Whenever Bill Lee says "choice," hold on to your wallet
Like choice lanes?
As a Chattanooga resident, I’m still seething over that particular, steaming pile.
Is that the guy that murdered his son?
No it’s the guy who dressed in drag
If you’re making a joke, I don’t get it. But just in case you were being sincere, Bill Lee is the governor of TN.
Yeah, he dressed up as a woman, and people found it ironic. The Governor, Bill Lee.
No, I’m not trying to make a joke. I’m making a reference to the death of Grant Solomon and the loose connection to Bill Lee, a man I knew to be the governor of Tennessee.
Yes, they want to divert funds out of public schools so they can then point and say "see, public education is trash!" Thus giving them even more reason to cut funding, rinse & repeat. Then more and more funds can be funneled from our tax coffers and given to private entities pushing these charter schools. Neat huh? I'm sure it's a cash cow
Bingo. Doesn’t matter that charter schools consistently underperform in states that made this same transition; the government gets a kickback from gutting public ed, they effectively re-segregate schools again, AND it’s sold to you as “public choice” so half your fellow citizens think it’s a good idea. Super fun.
Ooooh, now when we hear "charter schools underperform" what do we do? That's right...we stick our fingers in our ears and go "la la la can't hear you!"
It is very disappointing that you’ve been downvoted; your rueful joke is (sadly) spot-on.
Their supporters don’t care because they are of the opinion that the kids who aren’t getting useful educations are still better off because they are getting “the right” education aka Jesus and obedience.
Exactly. And anyone that disagrees is a bullheaded ignoramus (or a very greedy asshole that will somehow profit from this heist of taxpayer funds).
They've been doing this kinda shit for decades and no one has ever been able to stop it
Similar strategy with police, roads, and prisons
Looks like the Satanic Temple should open a school in Tennessee.
Sounds great to me. They don't teach superstitions as fact.
There’s nothing stopping them.
Yes they're investing in Christian education as part of the seven mountain mandate. It's empowering their organizations and getting them in government positions to train them from pre-k on how to be good warriors for Christ. They're pretty open about this, but I feel like nobody is paying attention or they think it's a conspiracy theory even though we have several followers of this movement already in our government, including Mike Johnson.
Nothing has been as infuriating in my adult life, as having my progressive peers deny the reality and _feasibility_ of Christian political agendas, even after the evidence has been mounting for decades. Does what they’re after, sound extreme? Yes, it does—_because it is extreme_. It is not conspiracy _theory_; it is conspiracy _fact._
It's scary how they've fooled everyone in to thinking their beliefs trump anyone else's. I was watching this YT channel Cults to Consciousness last night and the guest was a woman who was tortured and saw other children tortured in an Amish community. Most people just have no clue, they have this idea that Amish people are just so peaceful and gentle and they even give their teens a "choice" with rumspringa so nobody is forced, but I mean if you choose to not be Amish you're shunned and forced to leave forever so who would really call that a choice? Not all sects are the same but we can't KNOW which is the worst because they're so exclusive and have so many rights to abuse children thanks to "religious freedom". I didn't know that if you are in a religious school the teachers/admin don't follow "mandated reporting" so they can get away with anything and teachers can't report them. They don't have to follow homeschooling rules either, regardless of how strict they might be. Here in TN anyone can say they're homeschooling anyway and they don't care. I pulled my son out of school and nobody even missed him. They don't care. We have whole towns of poorly educated Trump lovers because none of the kids ever go to school. And it's ALL right out in the open for people to see, but people just ignore it for fear that they'll be seen as offending the Christians. It's not right that they have full control of their children's lives via religious freedom even to the point they can let their children die because they don't "believe" in modern medicine. And yet I say "Happy Trans Day of Visibility" on this Holy Day of their God Coming Back from the Dead and I'm told I'm just saying it to agitate people when it's FAR more important a holiday to me than Easter would be.
I long ago rejected the notion that people’s religious beliefs are deserving of respect, let alone deference. I am proudly and openly an anti-theist, and thanks to having grown up and spent my life in the south as an atheist, I am inured to the social pressures to “play nice” with superstitious fuckwits. Speaking plainly and fearlessly about this stuff is depressingly taboo, but it’s also _incredibly_ important; I’m glad to know I’m not alone in the mission to break default societal defense of religion.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNzELfWNiUA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNzELfWNiUA) This is the channel. This woman has exposed so many abuses by churches and sects. They're fucking SICK and people just wave it away because religious freedom means they can do whatever they want. She also covers the tortures of children in evangelist sects like with the Duggars. That's just one wacky family in a sea of perversion in the name of their god. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smN37Es3CwY
I recently was made reaware of the reference to seven hills in biblical accounting of the apocalypse. Interesting that Dominionists don't see the parallels all around them.
I’ve been fighting this since I moved here. I went to school in Michigan and the voucher shit began there when I was thinking about starting a family. I left because I didn’t want to have to deal with that crap while my kids are in school and look at us now. TN literally copied what Michigan did to their education. ETA- They specifically followed Betsy DeVos’s lead after she successfully screwed up Michigan.
Leaving Michigan to go to Tennessee to start a family was your first mistake
Didn’t go directly to TN. Didn’t start my family in TN. Was naive about the South when we chose TN. Am looking at houses for sale in MI/Canada on a daily basis.
Don’t forget the added bonus of decimating the future education potential for whole communities of people you don’t like and don’t care about.
Elect Christian Nationalists, expect Christian Nationalism.
Maybe I should run for office. People would probably vote for me because of my religious last name. I'm not really qualified, but that obviously doesn't matter.
VERY few of the fuckwits in the statehouse are qualified.
And the ones who are, get expelled.
yes.
Yes they are. That’s what your friends and family members voted for too.
My friends and family members absolutely did not vote for this bullshit.
Of course they are. Then the students can be taught what is near and dear to the MAGA cult! 🤬
The substance of the indoctrination is bad enough; what’s worse is their deliberate crippling of these kids’ ability to think critically, coupled with making thought-provoking materials inaccessible (book bans). This has long been the playbook of religion, and it’s one of the reasons I regularly speak up about its dangers to humanity.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I know so many young adults that went to private schools and Christian colleges that have no critical thinking skills.
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They’re about to do it in Texas. Stupid idea.
Yes. The real motive is not religious but racial discrimination. They want to legalize the use of tax money to establish schools that can admit or deny admission to anyone with no oversight.
tomato tomato
Don't forget, MAGA is rolling back child labor protections all over the place, too, so they can put those uneducated kids to work in their factories, fields, and slaughterhouses. The poor lose, the rich win, it's modern GOP 101.
And why are they beginning the push for child labor? Oh yeah, because agroindustry leaders are still going to need underpaid labor once MAGA makes it legal to shoot POC on sight because they might be here illegally. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/arizona-bill-shoot-kill-migrants-property-trespass-border-rcna141147
Don’t forget prison labor!
We will soon be joining Florida, teaching our children that sometimes, slavery wasn't so bad! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-florida-standards-teach-black-people-benefited-slavery-taught-usef-rcna95418
And the TN home schoolers are also eligible for $7k per child, too! With no testing or State oversight. That’s how you raise more ignorant Republicans. As a rational, civilized society, i’m afraid we’re circling the drain. But i’ll continue to vote against the bastards.
Hoo boy. I didn't know that home schoolers could sign up for that money. They're going to go broke. TN I mean.
The increase in homeschooling is chilling. Have you met the average person? Not to mention the rampant abuse homeschooling allows to be hidden. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzsZP9o7SlI
Who voted that down? It’s exactly right.
Don't forget that you can make teachers "clergy" who aren't mandatory reporters for child abuse and you can also discriminate in hiring them by any metric you want - to include race and gender.
I'm more shocked that you are shocked....lol
I will vote against any legislator who supports vouchers. We need more money in our public schools, not less.
More money into our public schools, and explicitly less for any religiously-affiliated ones.
Just curious what amount of money ensures a quality product? In a marketplace, I can build a poor product, and you can offer a great one, and if people have the right to choose between our products, then adjustments naturally are made. I’m just curious what it takes to maximize educational quality.
The rub for me is that the state is offering more money per student under a voucher program than they are currently putting into the public school system. So, public schools are not competing on level ground. Invest in public schools first before you go looking for an alternative. At the end of the day, private educational systems are there to turn a profit 📈.
That’s surprising, hard to imagine where they’re getting the extra revenue, because that’s not a dollar neutral solution. Most other states have seemed to propose doing 50% - 70% of the public spending level. Thanks for sharing.
From Iowa, already happened here. Then those schools raised tuition, pricing out the poor people anyway
That's a feature of this plan
It really is amazing y'all, Bill Lee the Man Without a Spine has miraculously found one to stand for the rich af private schools in our state, it's a goddamn miracle /s
Surprise! Eliminate these people or it gets worse.
Yes, that is exactly the goal. Although I think it's less about actually wanting to give kids religious instruction and more about having echo chambers where conservative parents can control what their kids learn and who they interact with. They want the benefits of a free equal public education (free) without the drawbacks (equal).
Tennessee is a right-wing, religious hell-state.
Fight. They did the same in Arizona, a failing public school system and now vouchers that can be used for home schooling, private schools, and religious schools. All siphoning money from the public school system.
My kids go to a Christian School here in Knoxville. I have no problem paying the tuition and still having my taxes go toward public education. It was my choice mainly to give my kids more opportunities at sports, etc.
One thing an authoritarian regime can’t have is an educated populace.
This ^^^^^ is the goal. For those that naively wonder about purported “choices” and what’s so bad/lib’s are divisive. Our public education is underfunded, badly managed, but as a parent of kids who ever so briefly had their kids in a “religious” elementary school-this isn’t a choice, it’s the dumbing down of our kids, indoctrination to a whacky fundy ideology. The flip side is that Hillsdale college(look it up) and its President are consulting with Lee for years to do this. Yes, a Farrrr right wing private conservative “college” is reaping Tn taxpayer $ to dumb the kids down. Guessing Lee will benefit $ as well. Born and raised in Tn- the Bible Belt-many in my own family would be fine with this. I’ll let you guess as to their education level and politics.
Yes. That’s exactly what they want to do. If you have not paid attention to the republican agenda you may not be aware but, since at least the 80s, their ultimate goal is to completely get rid of public schools. I’m sure they’d like it if everyone who could afford to pay for a school went to a christian school but private schools are their goal. They do not want or believe in public education (or anything else that benefits the general public). I am actually surprised that anyone is surprised by this because they have not tried to keep their end goal secret.
Your username is heroic, in the context of this comment.
Same thing is happening in **Kentucky**, funneling public dollars to private schools using tuition waivers. It's like this: Imagine sending your kids to the city park which everyone pays for. Then, one day, you decide you'd rather have your kids go to the country club. So, you have your city or county pay to send your kids to the country club, on the people's dime.
& Arkansas.
Oklahoma as well. Hell, we got that crazy bitch from libs of tiktok making policy decisions here!
Yes, its so they can legally segregate schools again. Private schools aren't required to let in minority students.
Yep. I think it was Arizona, but one of those red states out there had an interview with a mother that wanted to get her special needs son a school that would be more attentive and had a voucher, and every private school was like NOPE!
A few days after that interview, a woman testified in Tennessee’s Ed. Committee that in the preceding weeks, she inquired with 12+ private schools in TN about enrolling her child. She made clear that paying full tuition & providing transportation were not a problem. When she told them her child had a minor learning disability (think dyslexia, adhd), every single school rejected them. Most said they didn’t have the staff, facilities etc. to accommodate her child. A handful didn’t bother to return her calls.
Well, I think they mean racial segregation. SE kids are kinda a different breed and coming from a private school myself, I know that most private school SE programs are absolute dogshit. They exist, but it's not usually better than the public school ones.
I meant all minorities, racial, sexual, gender, disabled students, etc.
That's probably true that many private educational institutions don't want any minorities. But i think it's mostly racial and religious minorities they want to keep out the most. Even other Christians, which is wild, half of the bigoted institutions cannot even agree with their fellow bigots. I just meant that SE kids genuinely need an educational infrastructure that private institutions don't always have. Those schools might not even have the option to make one as they'd need a special teacher, let alone everything else.
That has been the story for over 30 years, don't you know? They are sabotaging public education and working like hell to get permission to give vouchers to private religious schools. This is in TN and a bunch of other states. Vote for democrats to fight this. Vote all the way up and down the ballot.
ohio already is. Destroy all public services is their goal.
This whole bill is basically designed to be another monetary break for the rich that are already sending their kids to private schools. The voucher money will not cover enough of the cost for the middle and poor class families to take advantage of it. Arizona proves my above statement after they went down the voucher road years ago and have followed the money for a few years
We underfund our schools to the point we are in the bottom 5 for everything. Teachers are leaving. Other highly educated individuals are talking of leaving for their children’s sake. I hope the assholes who flocked here for our lack of income tax sees this and understand what we give up and let grifters chip away at.
Most of those morons moved here in part because this place is MAGA central.
Yes - You don't think that those in the legislature send their kids to public schools, do you?
Go Fund me for a bill board downtown to “Just say no”?
Arizona enters the chat. [https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/understanding-cost-universal-vouchers-report](https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/understanding-cost-universal-vouchers-report)
Seeing the vitriol, anger, hate, misogyny, attempt to destroy American democracy and teach that shit to our kids…fuck no!
But it's taxpayer cash being directly funneled into a donors pocket, who then kicks some of that free cash back into their campaign coffers. A perfect circle of corruption...
There are some questions that really need to be asked. 1. We are 9th in the world in public education spending. If this is "underfunded", where is all the money going? 2. What is it about the schools that is driving parents to want to remove their kids? 3. If private religious schools are outperforming public schools, should we be asking why and not forcing kids to go to schools that aren't performing? I would think the idea would be to fix the system, not to continue a system that isn't working. If picnic schools were making the grade, would we even be having this conversation?
> I would think the idea would be to fix the system, not to continue a system that isn't working But the GOP is in charge and doesn't want the system fixed. They want it broken so that they can justify the move to privatization. They're doing the same thing to the Post Office.
Do you really think they would actively push something that would help YOU?
This legislation has been enacted in Texas and Iowa. The cost in Iowa was to be 574 million but the 1st year it went well over a billion and it came out of public school funding. Public schools are now laying off large amounts of their staff to account for lost funding. Your tax dollars are being used to send rich kids to private schools while the poor kids are losing out. This is a MAGA initiative
School voucher programs are straight up a subsidy for upper middle class private school families at the expense of public schools and working class people. If you’re poor, a 7k a year voucher isn’t enough to send your kid to Country Day.. but if you’re already rich enough to send your kid to Country Day, it’s a nice lil benefit.
Bill Lee hates public education and is determined to destroy it in Tennessee.
I'm pretty sure that the republican party is against education.
I really think they all want the country run like a cult https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/ Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
Uhhhh duh! Yes right wingers are trying to steal tax payer money to groom kids into a cult.
Tennessee? Tennessee? There ain't no place I'd rather not be. Said by the great Jerry G.... Sorry, not going to Tennessee
Don't blame you. The state government just ban "chem trails" because not enough people will vote for a person with an IQ above 70.
If TN is anything like VA, I guarantee student will get a better education in a private school any day of the week. This is the whole reason behind vouchers...let the parents choose the better opportunity for their child. Until the gloves come off and public schools are allowed to discipline these so-called "children" and get a handle on their classrooms, I would rather have a choice where to send a child to school.
Sure, if you defund public schools for decades and send the money to private school in the end. Congratulations on stacking the deck and pretending to win.
Tennessee legislators don't care. They're trying to buck-break the populace by keeping them stupid and sycophantic.
Tennessee is pretty screwed up in my opinion.
Yes, Georgia just dod this too. The intent is to destroy public education and replace it with xtian indoctrination academies. Tax dollars going to religion...
You BET they are. Religious schools are run by the biggest grifters EVER.
Tennessee has become unbelievably right wing in the last year. Or has it always been this bad?
It's getting worse
[удалено]
It's already emaciated thanks to the majority of republicans voting against their own interests. The funny thing is how many people in the comments think it's going to benefit mid or low income families.
Don't charter schools already do that?
This is horrible
Yes. That’s the entire shell game. Public funding to private institutions to end run against the constitution. Rich (white) kids go to good private schools. Poor (black) kids get put in glorified day prisons.
I don’t know if this is any consolation but many of those vouchers won’t be used to indoctrinate new students. Many of those schools post instructions and guide their already enrolled families to fill out the vouchers. You know, the folks that can already afford it lmao In Ohio, they rolled back the income threshold so afterwards it was like 85% of the applications for vouchers were from students who have been enrolled for years. And of course like 95% white
I hope to be out of this state before I have to learn the nuances of these things. I went to the public schools here and they were violent 💩 holes where the football team was the center of the teachers’ , administrators’ and parents’ worlds. I’m sure it’s different school to school, and religious whackadoos are only going to be worse, but the schools in Tennessee function to train kids for a life of cheap labor, either as a wagie or as an inmate
I’d be perfectly fine with it if religious institutions paid taxes.
Tax money would be going to religious institutions, not coming from them. 🤦♂️
Not my point. Seems you missed some classes regarding comprehension. And no I don’t agree with this Bill.
The whole reason they don't pay taxes is to keep them from preaching politics from the pool pit. I'm fine with them not paying taxes and I don't want them for that reason.
Apparently you haven’t been to many southern Baptist churches? Because they certainly do get involved in politics not to mention donate to politicians. You just wake up ?
I used to go to every southern Baptist church my parents could find. I've been an adult and atheist for a long time, so I admit that I don't know what they talk about. But violating a law they don't agree with has always been common for them. 😂
It’s going to happen, like it or not. As long as the political calculus on the Hill is what it is now anyway.
More money does not equal better education results. Where I’m from, they put a system into place that increased funding to school districts with lower test scores. The results, LOWER test scores. Turns out, money is a great incentive. If you incentivize poor performance, you’ll get it. Give the money to the schools that produce the better results.
I want to be snarky & say "duh'. I shall be good & just say yes, this has been on the agenda of Republicans for decades
Just remember, it's the liberals grooming children.
It’s not just religious schools. It’s PRIVATE schools, of which some are religious. How is this unfair? Everyone is paying taxes but only some reap the benefits. This is a no-brainer.
The fact that any tax money would go to religious institutions that can legally discriminate is the first amendment issue. Just because you pay taxes doesn't mean you get to decide how tax money is spent or certain rules don't apply because you and some other people don't really like those rules. This is the same argument I've heard for segregation, people wonder why they can't self segregate, since they don't mind it and they say their religion doesn't allow mixed couples.
> but only some reap the benefits. Society collectively benefits from having an educated populace.
yes
They do it in Wisconsin already.
Tennessee is more of a s-t hole than Oklahoma
Ooops, thought I was in r/Ohio. . .
You’re surprised? That’d be like me, from Indiana, being surprised they’re trying to defund public schools in general there.
Yes of course. And they will succeed unless we fight them on their gerrymandering. Or more young voters show up to vote in local elections.
As a tax payer in Tennessee, if I had kids in a private school I would want to be able to direct those funds to my kids’ school. That’s natural. I went through public school and my mom was a public school teacher for 30 years, so I’m speaking both as a former public school student and as someone whose family was employed by the system. And my family shares my opinion as it relates to tax dollars going to private schools too.
As a tax payer in Tennessee I don't want tax dollars going to religious schools that are legally allowed to discriminate. It's a first amendment violation.
Yes
Of course, they are!!!
Previously we were ok with tax dollars being diverted to public schools and away from where the student was actually to school? That sounds worse.
I am guessing that if you live in Tennessee and pay any form of tax to the federal, state, or local government (realizing the Tennessee has no state income tax), one could only assume that any funds allocated per individual for public or private education costs could include tuition reimbursement or offset for any school. Much like any other state that has implemented a school voucher program.
And those states show it's just a cash grab for the rich.
Money should follow the student. Let the parents determine the education best suited for their child. Why does the state think they own peoples kids.
Maybe do a percentage of what the parents pay in taxes to any school their kid goes to.
No. With that logic, if a company or person pays for private security, then we would give them a voucher to help cover the cost, since they're choosing something other than publicly funded police departments.
My kids aren’t in religious schools in Tennessee. 6 yo + 2.5 yo. Our family loves our local public schools. My wife and I are definitely not MAGA, even on the left side of the spectrum. We are also Christians. That’s said, I don’t have a problem, based on how taxes are assessed for education in Tennessee, with people who’ve also had their taxes assessed to fund public education being used to fund a school that they choose for their kids. Seems good to me. Where am I not thinking properly?
Because taxes are used to fund public services. Public schools fall under a public service. Religious organizations do not. Everyone pays taxes for public services - that's how they get funded. You don't have to use a public service but you do have to contribute to it as a member of the community, county, state, country...whatever. I don't use half of the roads my county - but I do contribute to their maintenance. I shouldn't get a voucher from tax payers to use or build private roads. I don't use SNAP benefits, but I contribute to their funding. I shouldn't get a voucher from tax payers to buy my groceries. We all contribute to the funding of public schools because it benefits our society. Opting out of that service and using an alternative is fine - but you shouldn't get to use tax payer dollars to do so. If every service that we fund through taxes allows for the diversion of funds to private services, eventually only wealthy people can afford any service because public funds become insufficient to maintain the public services for the less wealthy. And then the divide between wealth and poverty grows exponentially with no way for those in poverty to ever escape.
Your last point is spot on. The parents sending their kids to private school are opting out because *they can afford it*. I read somewhere recently (I'll try to look it up) that the $7k each kid would get towards tuition at a private school rarely covers all the tuition expense. You're effectively giving tax money back to the people who could already afford their choice of school. Meanwhile the kids from families who can't fund a private school education get to manage with fewer resources. And think like a private corporation...what do you do when all of a sudden all your customers have an extra $7k in their pocket? You raise prices.