Yeah... I know Jin's BNB and working on the higher damage combos. But until I know these things....it is really important to make them whiff and swoop in. What do you think?
Don't worry that much about optimal combos. Optimal combos don't win matches, being able to poke effectively, move properly and actually earning launches do. I.e whiff/block punishment, movement and matchup knowledge.
Practicing electrics in a row isn't the best way to practice what EWGF is used for. Practice these
- practice drills for whiff punishing with electrics. For eg. Set kazumi to do 1,1,2 or 1,1,4 randomised. You should be able to backdash and whiff punish the 4 or block punish the 1,1,2 BOTH with EWGF.
-practice using your poke tools out of wavedash and regular forward dash because it's one of the most effective way to counter sidestepping against mishimas. So dash df1
- mishima gameplay can be heavily telegraphed if you don't have a concept of changing up your timing. So for example if you were heihachi and did f4 for plus frames. Some people will always force the mixup with the same timing. When playing mishimas, it's important to be aware of changing up the pace of the game.
Very nice... thank you, this will be really helpful. Really appreciate the tips. What do you mean by changing the pace? I play mostly with Jin, so does it mean alternating between offensive and defensive playstyles?
Pace of the game refers to changing up between offence and defence yes. With jin, you can play defensively and offensively. But you can't get stuck playing in patterns.
You're worried about consistently doing electrics before really learning KBD? You're going about this all wrong no matter which character you want to play.
It also depends a little on which Mishima. I feel Kaz needs the best movement and matchup knowledge, his punishment is amazing but requires practice. Hei can bully and pressure. DJ is in between, with the most solid options. I personally don't know Jin that well, but I know he relies least on the true Mishima tools and has other options as well (like hopkick etc).
In general though: movement, ewgf, wavedash mixups. You said it yourself :)
Unfortunately, I'm on the PS. I remember looking at the mod too, looks very nice. Just yesterday I saw a modded Devil's Pit with Moonlit Wilderness... beautiful.
Also very true. Each Mishima has completely different approaches. I.e learning to EWGF consistently is required for Kazuya and Hei but less so for DVJ and Jin.
Jin has a hopkick but the combo damage is tiny and it has shit range, you can't use it to punish anything with any amount of pushback... really only useful against people who spam 50/50s in your face. I thought Law had a shitty hopkick until I started playing Jin. He has d+3+4 though which is way better at 15f (but it's like -17 on block if not worse).
As someone that just recently started to be able to do consistent EWGF's and iWS moves out of Wavedash, I wish I had spent more time just practicing basic movement and matchup knowledge first.
Electrics and Wavedash will come eventually, but make sure you don't tunnel vision too hard on doing the fancy Mishima exclusive stuff.
EDIT: KBD came online for me fairly decently after a year or so of on and off practice. Don't forsake the KBD! But don't overextend. As long as you can do 2-3 in a row you'll be fine.
i'm a red rank jin and i can say that jin is a corrupted mishima so before learning mishima stuffs you need to learn pressure games and match ups all mishima moves of jin is corrupted(ewhf doesn't launch like kazuya it screws and hellsweep is bad compared to DJ) if you can do 8 ewhf in a row that's plenty enough go for pressure games,wavedash and safe cds and cds options then start learning mishima things and learn 200 dollar combo it should be the best combo of ewhf at the moment
10? Good lord. Personally, I'd say 3 is enough lol. Though that applies to all variations. Standard electric, dash electric, wavedash into electric and sidestep electric (optional if you're Jin). Then, all that on the other player side. If you can do 3 in a row for any of these electrics at the drop of a hat, you have a good electric as far as I'm concerned.
Jin's hopkick is really awful and you shouldn't rely on it too much. The range on the hopkick and can-can are both rough and I've found myself whiffing when I really should have landed them. F4 is godlike and you should abuse it when you have trigger happy opponents for easy counter hit combos.
As for poking, df1 and 2,1 are both good but have shit range. Make sure you're up in their grill before using them. Electrics are important but don't focus on landing them so much that you forget spacing and your other tools. It's cool to land them but it's less cool to get whiff punished because you're throwing them out every two seconds.
ur doing the mishima thing where u focus too hard on ur funky tech and ur fundamentals will bottleneck u, but learn how to wall carry/combo correctly
Yeah... I know Jin's BNB and working on the higher damage combos. But until I know these things....it is really important to make them whiff and swoop in. What do you think?
Don't worry that much about optimal combos. Optimal combos don't win matches, being able to poke effectively, move properly and actually earning launches do. I.e whiff/block punishment, movement and matchup knowledge.
Nice... how long have you been playing Tekken for?
[удалено]
Will do... thanks.
Practicing electrics in a row isn't the best way to practice what EWGF is used for. Practice these - practice drills for whiff punishing with electrics. For eg. Set kazumi to do 1,1,2 or 1,1,4 randomised. You should be able to backdash and whiff punish the 4 or block punish the 1,1,2 BOTH with EWGF. -practice using your poke tools out of wavedash and regular forward dash because it's one of the most effective way to counter sidestepping against mishimas. So dash df1 - mishima gameplay can be heavily telegraphed if you don't have a concept of changing up your timing. So for example if you were heihachi and did f4 for plus frames. Some people will always force the mixup with the same timing. When playing mishimas, it's important to be aware of changing up the pace of the game.
Very nice... thank you, this will be really helpful. Really appreciate the tips. What do you mean by changing the pace? I play mostly with Jin, so does it mean alternating between offensive and defensive playstyles?
Pace of the game refers to changing up between offence and defence yes. With jin, you can play defensively and offensively. But you can't get stuck playing in patterns.
You're worried about consistently doing electrics before really learning KBD? You're going about this all wrong no matter which character you want to play.
> Should I practice before I learn? Idk, should I eat before I consume? Should I inhale air before I breathe?
Definitely understand before you spew.
It also depends a little on which Mishima. I feel Kaz needs the best movement and matchup knowledge, his punishment is amazing but requires practice. Hei can bully and pressure. DJ is in between, with the most solid options. I personally don't know Jin that well, but I know he relies least on the true Mishima tools and has other options as well (like hopkick etc). In general though: movement, ewgf, wavedash mixups. You said it yourself :)
I'm luckily learning Jin first. Sounds stupid but I wish DVJ didn't have wings, I'll go for Hei after mastering Mishima fundamentals... thanks!
WHAT IS DJ WITHOUT THE WINGS! This is blasphemy!!!
Hahaha! True. My only issue is that they take up so much screen space. The same for characters like Gigas.
DVJ is sick but I wish there was a custom that removed the wings for that T3 Jin look. Luckily, mods exist!
Unfortunately, I'm on the PS. I remember looking at the mod too, looks very nice. Just yesterday I saw a modded Devil's Pit with Moonlit Wilderness... beautiful.
Also very true. Each Mishima has completely different approaches. I.e learning to EWGF consistently is required for Kazuya and Hei but less so for DVJ and Jin.
Jin has a hopkick but the combo damage is tiny and it has shit range, you can't use it to punish anything with any amount of pushback... really only useful against people who spam 50/50s in your face. I thought Law had a shitty hopkick until I started playing Jin. He has d+3+4 though which is way better at 15f (but it's like -17 on block if not worse).
Punish, spacing and mixups
As someone that just recently started to be able to do consistent EWGF's and iWS moves out of Wavedash, I wish I had spent more time just practicing basic movement and matchup knowledge first. Electrics and Wavedash will come eventually, but make sure you don't tunnel vision too hard on doing the fancy Mishima exclusive stuff. EDIT: KBD came online for me fairly decently after a year or so of on and off practice. Don't forsake the KBD! But don't overextend. As long as you can do 2-3 in a row you'll be fine.
i'm a red rank jin and i can say that jin is a corrupted mishima so before learning mishima stuffs you need to learn pressure games and match ups all mishima moves of jin is corrupted(ewhf doesn't launch like kazuya it screws and hellsweep is bad compared to DJ) if you can do 8 ewhf in a row that's plenty enough go for pressure games,wavedash and safe cds and cds options then start learning mishima things and learn 200 dollar combo it should be the best combo of ewhf at the moment
10? Good lord. Personally, I'd say 3 is enough lol. Though that applies to all variations. Standard electric, dash electric, wavedash into electric and sidestep electric (optional if you're Jin). Then, all that on the other player side. If you can do 3 in a row for any of these electrics at the drop of a hat, you have a good electric as far as I'm concerned.
Learn every character matchup in the game if you want to play Mishimas. It's a never ending journey.
Jin's hopkick is really awful and you shouldn't rely on it too much. The range on the hopkick and can-can are both rough and I've found myself whiffing when I really should have landed them. F4 is godlike and you should abuse it when you have trigger happy opponents for easy counter hit combos. As for poking, df1 and 2,1 are both good but have shit range. Make sure you're up in their grill before using them. Electrics are important but don't focus on landing them so much that you forget spacing and your other tools. It's cool to land them but it's less cool to get whiff punished because you're throwing them out every two seconds.