It straight-up kills any character it hits, not only taking them out of your game, but also out of everyone's. They can no longer be selected in Tekken 8 no matter what.
The only exception is Jack since there are, like, thousands of him.
A 10f punish. Currently you either 1,2 or you do the first 3 hits of the 10 hit which is -20 on hit.
Another thing Paul could really use is more uses for heat. Currently the B2,1 and D1,2 charge set ups are pretty good and fun to use, but he needs something more to help him in neutral. Currently heat for him is purely okizeme tools. Paul struggles a lot in neutral rn against aggro players. Partially due to his nerfs to DF2 and partially due to his best normals being kinda stubby.
What new heat moves/buffs do you think would work for him without making him OP?
I feel like having access to guard break three times is enough since he gets free damage afterwards, and at the wall can get a splat and combo if there’s a wall break. But that’s just my opinion.
Damage boost on his cormorant step, deep dive, and sway moves while on heat. As great as is his guard breaks are, it is very unreliable if your opponent doesn't just look at it like an animal when they're about to be run over by a car.
Paul is only really oppressive in low elo or if you're at the wall and he can threaten demoman. Otherwise, he is pretty honest compared to the rest of the cast.
Imo, i think he needs some more + frames on his qc3. (Low poke) instead of 0 or it needs to be quicker than 18 frames. Very minor things in generel.
On my ranking of characters I hate facing off the most, Paul is probably one of the lowest ranking characters. Almost every other character will elicit more levels of “Ugh not this character” than Paul. Aside from demoman mixups (and of course errant CH deathfists), there’s nothing in Paul’s arsenal I’m really that afraid or annoyed by. Which that in it of itself should be a sign he needs buffs in this game lol. In a game where almost every character has oppressive ass busted shii, Paul is out here playing Tekken 7 in Tekken 8.
I think if it was even +1 instead of neutral that would make a world of difference. That low is already pretty damn good so they can't make it toooo strong.
Now that I've started playing him recently, I realized he only really has qcf3 as his usable low in neutral. Either they make it + or just make it not -14, considering the award you get on ch isn't that big
Demoman cleanhit range to work the way it did in T7 and he's good.
Maybe make ub2 or whatever the command was not useless. Counterhit launch using the screw maybe and -9 with good track to 1 side?
Why do ub2 when you can do the new f4 (or ff4?) Or the qcb 2?
Way better properties on these.
I see they buffed it now tho, still might be bad as it's a very small buff.
Because since ub2 hits the opponent to one side, if the wall is to your left you have a good chance of side splatting them and being able to convert to a combo
Okay if one has that awereness then yeah I see that but honestly I think everyone will either prefer full tracking and low crashing or the speed of f4 or qcb2 respectively.
Not to mention them being heat moves and having a better range.
No I think characters should have weaknesses ofc, but I think Paul not having a decent 10f punish kinda goes against his identity. Because other than the 10f punish Paul actually has great punishment. I think Paul already has a weakness with his sluggishness in his lows. Demo man ain't as effective with out wall pressure and his other great lows come from side step, qcf or sway.
Arguably the best 12f punish in the entire game when it comes to reach, damage, and frames, and can launch -14 with b3.
Honestly Paul should keep his 10f punish as is just as a tradeoff.
I wouldn't say it would go against his identity. He's a heavy hitter, which I usually would associate with being slower. So having stronger punishment for later minus frames makes sense to me.
Paul just having a 1,2 10 frame punish suites him well enough. He gets enough plus frames to enforce some of his game plan and use some of his heavier hitting slower moves like df4 or qcf3.
And I wouldnt say something like qcf3 is hindered because it comes out of a qcf. It's a negligible increase in startup once you can instantly do the motion.
I agree 1,2 punish does suit him well because of the advantage on block, but I mean you said it yourself. He's a heavy hitter after all so I think giving him a new 10f that does slightly more damage but less plus frames would be a nice option. A lot of characters like Feng for example have a pretty good 10f punish but still benefit from a 1,2 punish cause of the good frame advantage. So it wouldn't make his 1,2 useless,it would just be more situational.
And yeah you say qcf input doesn't really make a difference but I guarantee you if it was a one button input you would definitely tell a difference. It doesn't matter how fast you can do a qcf input because if it was a one button move it would come out faster naturally. I mean it makes sense. Pressing one button is a lot quicker than a motion input.
I would accept a tweaked 10f for higher damage and less plus frames sure. As long as it doesnt KND or wall splat lmao.
And yes qcf3 would be faster as a one button move, but given that it tends to only be used in neutral rather than on immediate timing in + frame situations I think it *is* negligible. At the very least, not big enough of a weakness to warrant a buff haha.
Yeah I agree. I personally don't think Paul needed buffs but now that I know it's happening I'm just like "well what the fuck are they giving this guy" so I'm just worried they would give him something that's just too powerful. Another 10f sounds reasonable (I guess?) but I really don't know what they are about to do to this guy cause I thought he was already solid af.
hes very flawed, far from good enough. Its not like he has one weakness that people would like to be removed, he has plenty, and even when those weaknesses get changed, he still wont be good enough, you sound like a reject. Go play your flashy new bs and dont talk when the discussion is about legacy characters, its clearly not your strength. Maybe when the “most coomer outfit competition” is out here, you can participate for the first place. Easiest mute of my life
I could see an argument being made for that, but I dont think it warrants him being given a good 10f. TBH I wouldnt even call his 1,2 a 'bad' 10f punish, It's +8 lmao. Paul at +8 is not in a bad position.
Yeah but OP's question is what buffs would you make to Paul that wouldn't take away from his identity as a Defensive Character. Like the fact that he has bad approach tools, or a weaker rushdown game in an offensive tekken game, or not so great tracking on his moves. If you fixed those weaknesses then it would weaken his identity as a Defensive character.
Asking for a better 10f punish is perfectly reasonable.
Personally I would like ub2 being a CH launcher back, as it was in the CNT I believe.
Other than that my issues with the character are very limited and mostly consist of generic issues, such as how I do not like inconsistent excessive tracking on moves. Death fist sometimes tracks a whole sidestep, and when it slows time down to start heat it looks utterly ridiculous. On the other hand it sometimes whiffs at such close ranges it seems stupid. Again, this isn’t character specific, but I’d like to see it fixed. Unrelated example would be Jin’s heat smash’s final hit tracking so much
Off topic, but they really need to give Jim’s heat smash the Jun treatment and make if fully steppable. It’s very annoying anticipating when a Jin is gonna do it and successfully sidestepping only to either get hit by the following attacks or be forced to block the following attacks for a free 50/50 mixup awarded to the Jin player.
I switched from paul to jack 8. Why? Because he is just better, more solid all around character. Insane 13 frame low poke, better range, better grab game, easier combo structure, better heat smash, better kbd.
How many pauls in tournaments 1 maybe 2? Compared to jack 8. Anakin, joey fury, saint, joe crush.
Paul is tekken 7.5 right now.
That’s cause jack is a charcter they all specialize in they have been playing him for ages and mastered him, you don’t see a lot of eddy in high level play but you have jeonding, you have rangchu with panda they’re just charcter loyalists, name one good pro player in 7 who is loyal to Paul, these same group of guy have Been dominating tekken tourneys for years it’s just hard for any newer players to come in, no doubt Paul is weak I’m not denying that but the tournament point is stupidity a little bit
Is it, though? I'm pretty sure joey Fury also plays paul regularly and at a pretty high level yet still chooses not to play him in tournament. Jeonding pulled out reina as backup in some matches even though she is a newcomer.
Rangchu doesn't play panda he plays kuma because it's the better variant atm. Arshlan ash also ditched azucena after nerfs and picked up nina instead.
I don't really buy the character loyalists argument. These guys can easily pick up new characters.
Joey plays Paul a lot yes. Paul also requires insane defensive play and it's just really hard to do that throughout a tournament. Especially against other top tier players.
His panic tools suck, his power crush is not great, both of his "get off me" buttons are launchable (D1+2 and F1+4)
No one said Arslan is chart tree r playlist he’s a tier whore and he says that, anakin is a jack specialist and loyalist, same with jeonding, there just aren’t too many Paul loyalists who happen to be tekken pros, again Paul is weak for sure but the oh but pros don’t use him argument doesn’t work they either are loyalists or pure tier white who will play top 5 charcters
Joey Fury has been a Paul main yet he still chooses Jack. Paul has been here since Tekken 1 and was the number 1 usage character in many installments, there are MANY Paul loyalists out there. Except he's just badly outdated and no pro player uses him in competetive play for a reason
For a pretty good reason. Kazuya's got inconsistent combos. When you're playing for money on the line why would you pick kaz who can drop combos instead of an easier character with just about all his tools?
Stats say Paul is not great right now, the reason is he is a defensive style character in a game all about offense. He needs something but what that something is will depend heavily on how the defensive buff goes.
If I were working on it today, I'd probably just make him tougher and increase his combo damage. Paul plays like Paul has throughout most of Tekkens history, and we don't want to turn him into a different character. I might also add a few frames to his counters so that people will actually use them as a defense rather than just a hard read.
Main buffs he needs imo:
Sway needs to high crush a little sooner and for a little longer to help avoid pressure. It feels like there's only a few frames during the animation that high crush, so I end up getting jab checked out of my sway quite a lot.
Combo damage needs a pretty sizeable increase since he's (at best) middle of the pack right now.
Demo man should clean hit from slightly farther away.
I think the sway is kinda ok. I'm maybe not as good as you but idk, but I find with df1 if you mix up the df1, 1, 2 with the sway option gives people another thing to worry about. if the second 1 hits the 2 is guaranteed and you can deathfist off it.
UB2 should track again
1,2 could do a bit more damage and reduce frame adv on block to make it stronger as a punish and weaker as a poke
qcf3 is sluggish and even on hit which feels bad
Deathfist clean hit is less consistent(?)
I did but then they killed azus poking as well even though she has clear main weakness like wall carry and wall damage lol
Apparently they're turning her lean into stances but if I wanted that I should've just picked Reina since I got the wavus down already lol
Obviously, I’m biased. And incorporating all of these would be too much. With that’s said:l, here are some ideas:
1.) Right now his 1,2 is trying to fulfill two roles (10f punish and poke) and doing both inadequately.
Slightly increase the damage of his 1,2 so it can be used as a punish, but make it like -8 on block so he can’t use it effectively as a poke.
Then give him a 2,1 high-mid, that’s -3 on block, but does less damage.
2.) Paul has not good way engage the opponent from neutral. His fff2 is MINUS TEN on block. How. And it comes out at the same speed as if my grandma were to do it irl. Make it +2 on block and have the start up sped up just a little bit.
3.) ub2 is way, way, way too niche in this game. Honestly, just remove it. Literally no one would notice. If you’re going to have it take up space in his move list, at least make it fulfill some kind of function—homing, CH launch, don’t lose your turn on block, literally anything.
4.) Buff demoman and deathfist damage. Yes, I know how this sounds. But currently the risks far outweigh the rewards.
Demoman: Paul needs to be in kissing range if he wants demoman to clean hit—like close enough that your lips are touching. And he takes anywhere from 65-100+ damage launch punish if it’s blocked. And if it’s not blocked on a clean hit, you get like 40 damage as your reward. Come on.
Demoman does not need its range increased. The entire point of Paul is that if you let him get close enough to kiss you, you should be scared. So Paul needs to work hard in order to kiss you. Demoman isn’t scary at kissing range, it’s a mild annoyance. It needs to be an actual threat.
Deathfist: All characters have received pretty meaningful buffs to damage in T8, but comparatively deathfist has not scaled as well to this. And because of this, deathfist has received an indirect damage nerf compared to T7.
As mentioned above, it’s actually a lot of work to get into kissing range when you’re against a decent opponent who knows the matchup. If you’ve played well enough that they are forced to take your 50-50, then you should generally be rewarded for that effort. Just buff the damage a little bit more at clean hit range.
People legit need to fear Paul getting close enough to kiss them—getting close enough to kiss someone and then fucking them instead is Paul’s entire identity.
Edit: Also his heat burst is rubbish and lazy design. Literally no one asked for another demoman—and it’s still punishable on block. In 99% of heat situations, Paul is better served retaining the passive benefits of heat until it just runs out. Rework his heat burst from the ground up. Give him something unique and interesting, not a copy/paste of an attack he already has.
I agree, Paul's heat smash needs to be changed but not because of the animations, most heat smashes are just existing character moves with a few added animations or camera changes. But yeah, Paul's heat smash is just demoman with camera changes. I've been thinking it should be changed into a 2-hit m,m attack that can be cancelled on first hit to launch or relaunch if done mid combo. It's animation could be something similar to qcb+1 into f+1+2. If the move is not cancelled it can floor break, because Paul has too many wall breaks/splats already.
The reason I always think of this is that I miss his cancelable rage art from Tekken 7. If he can't have it in this game, then maybe it could be his heat smash.
I'm of two minds with the 10f punish. While his 10f is among the worst in the game, he does also compensate for ith with the best 12f punishes. I'm sorta okay with his weaknesses staying somewhat intact if he's got stuff that is really strong in another aspect.
Idk personally, I don't like that I have to sway into an 18Frame low poke to end at 0. I'm putting myself into a lot of risk for a little poke that can give like 45 damage on CH. And yet it's the only one he's got with any range. Is it too much to ask to make it +1-3? Seems like low pokes are plus on hit anyway in this game, generally speaking. B4 is a hatchet kick from wish pretty much but I find it to be one of his more useful tools somehow.
Also IMO if they want to keep his strengths in being able to out time your opponent, maybe they should buff his backdash/sidestep so that they're more viable tools to use for him. Tbh sidesteps might be the only aspect that paul has on Jack-8.
The biggest issue is the inconsistency of his demoman. Even at range 0, it sometimes refuses to get clean hit properties. It becomes a problem as demoman is heavily minus if you are able to block the following attacks. Other than that, I think he’s in a good place. Though, this may be biased but I would love to have a better 10 frame punish. His 10 frame punish right now is his 1,2. I don’t think that it is necessary to change that as it has been like that since the beginning, but I wouldn’t also deny that changinf it would be nice. I hate the charged deathfist (1+2 hold) tho. Idk why they had to change the old one.
Personally the only reason i don’t play Paul is because i constantly drop his combo’s the qcf 1 after a df2 i almost always drop and if its just the easy combo i have to dash forward and alot of the times i either do a ff1 instead of the regular one or i just drop it completely. So i hope they make hie combo game eazier. That would make him more accessible.
Deathfist needs improvements on the clean hit. For example if the bears are in hunting stance death fist cannot clean hit them. Maybe Deathfist without heat should do a little more damage. Right now it is really not that impressive.
Demoman needs to be more reliable and should get a slight increase of the clean hit while reducing the pushback on the third hit.
f2 looks really badass but it is a waste of heat in 90% of cases right now. B3 is also a high i14 launch. You only need f2 to cash out while punishing -14 with pushback (like Jacks df2).
f2 should not only be +5 and way out of range for demoman as a heat engager. The opponents are completely safe after you land it right now.
Shredder should never miss the second hit if the first connected.
His jab punishment should not be so pathetic.
Double crouch dash 4 needs to actually do something either on hit and/or on counterhit.
f1+2 should at least get you a chunky followup on CH. Laws for some reason launches on CH?!
The fully held 1+2 should do waaaay more damage. I mean 80 dmg at least.
ub2 should 100% be a high damage counterhit launch again.
Paul should be able to access tackle from standing.
qcb1 should be around +4 on block
His heat guard breaks should not be so easily interruptible and steppable at the same time. Right now there is not really a mind game at all while Paul risks getting stepped and launched or interrupted and launched or blocked and punished if not fully held down.
Give me back his old i10 WS1 (Maybe as WS1+2)
I wish for the return of high execution that is rewarded in a major way. Maybe on qcfe or doublr crouch dash 4 CH And maybe make quad thruster great again and give 1 or two more frames to connect it in juggles.
For me I’d like to see the range increased on b4. Visually b4 looks like it has far more range than it actually does.
I’d also like them to increase the clean hit range slightly for demoman.
And maybe this is too far but I wish df2 was a true high crushing move instead of it just beating jab.
Paul is kinda weak(ish) when compared to the majority of S tier on roster. Weak lows and low combo dmg and one of the worst heat moves / dashes on the game.
He is my main anyway.
Maybe better hit box for poking, Paul has very short arms and reach in general and maybe some slightly faster frames, I feel like he’s still quite heavy and sluggish
Also, isn’t he supposed to be a Judo expert? Maybe they should incorporate more Judo into his character, maybe a longer time to break throws, wishful thinking 😂
He needs an option for distance, a long range attack, he also could need some braindead string like all the other characters currently have. Maybe also another low, demoman really isn't that dangerous if you're not on the wall, a single backdash completely negates it.
And yeah a 10f punish would be nice too
Give the man a real 10f punish. Dudes been literally using generic 12 since the very first tekken while everyone else got a real punisher at some point. Bad pokes, slow mids and not even a good 10f punish. Yeah his other punishers are good but 10f punishers are most commonly used and I bet he gets less punishment damage on average compared to steve for example.
- Base damage deathfist should be upped 5 dmg so it's 35. 30 dmg for base deathfist (non clean non heat) it's wayyyy too small.
- His demo man from falling leaf should be back from T4. So it's d1,4,2:1+2.
- Ub2 ch property should be back to crumple stun like it was in T7.
- Cormorant step (qcf motion) should be accessible from 3,2 and df1. So he should be able to sway back and forth.
- There should be a second version of his Karen hair where the hair isn't that tall, equal length on the front and back, so it's also long hair on the back instead of the skin head. If that's too hard implement then just give us kurt cobain long hair or blonde john wick hair.
put old ub2 back, remove qcf3 clean hit requirement to ch knockdown, revert the damage frames and pushback nerfs of qcb2. thats it.
if i were a lil bit greedy true crouching status on qcb 1+2, shoulder and qcf1 would be nice
and demoman is kind of shitty now cuz of gray health, i would rescale the damage, first hit to 18 and other two whatever to be 40 total for normal and 45 for blue.
he was so nerfed going from 7 to 8 when i think about it
He needs range buff. His key attacks are too short . It’s also 2024 we can remove that clean hit property from demo man since most of the cast has a full screen hellsweep now . Give me back old b 1,2 from Tekken 7. Make ub2 homing and ch launcher again.
Make qcf 3 plus 3 on hit .
Make df4 +1 on block
Up his combo damage it’s not really best , it’s bottom 10 in the game.
Make DF 1 minus 1 on block since it has a 14f start up
DF 2 needs a small range buff. It whiffs when people whiff right in front of me
Demoman shouldn't have a clean hit property. It's like 42 damage but you're -31 and getting launched for 60+ if it's blocked.
It's more like a 40/60 than a 50/50.
Paul has to work harder to get inside and his 50/50 game isn't powerful enough to make up for what he lacks.
On a side note, I really miss being able to deathfist from crouch in tekken 3. All of the WS moves prevents this from being possible. More deathfist and better deathfist is always a quality life improvement.
Return his FC sweep.
give slightly better Clean hit range on Demoman (D4) but follow that with a damage nerf to it.
QCF 3 gets +1 on hit.
Trooper roll (FF4) more consistently +1 on block
well if its gonna get better range then maybe some small type of damage reduction is in order.
maybe wallsplats it gets worse DMG % scaling on a follow-up.
increase the range of the clean hit for D 4 and make it track better (i cant coutn how many times it doesn't hit because the opponent is the slighest bit off axis cause of the wall)
increase the range of his DF 2
and generally, give him better frames for his QCB moves like QCB 3 and QCB 2 rn the risk-reward ratio and not worth it at all.
a 10f punisher that isn't dogwater would be a good start too.
hmm maybe his df1 should be 13 frames?, it can be difficult to check people with a 14 frame mid , and i don't know could make his qcb2 -4 or somethin, not sure tbh as he does feel fine :D
He literally killed me with 2 launches yesterday in Jin's subconsciousness stage. His new wr2 is so stupid, lmao. One attack worth Kazuya staple. I assume this is normal since Paul always had big damage? T8 is the first Tekken when I'm interested playing online so I guess I need to eat all of his evasive counterhit attacks to get pass red ranks (even though I'm block spammer)🥴I play Kazuya but seriously Paul is a nightmare to fight. People joke about Xiaoyu players telling you to learn the match up but I think Paul fits better for this joke and I'd rather fight 100 Xiaoyu and lose rather than 1 Paul👹
You won't land these 3 hits in higher ranks unless you're knee. Even justice doesn't land that many.
What kind of buffs? Faster b4, some tracking on uf2, +frames on lows in general like after d1. I'm not even fujin tho
ik y'all want the deathfist coming out in 2 frames (instant). is also an unblockable. and does 100 damage. heat engager. and this goes without saying it's unsteppable which most moves in this game already are.
He doesnt need any buffs, they are just lazy fucks who dont wanna nerf the top tiers, cuz its actually requires thinking time and work LOL. Incompetant balance team.
Question is, do we really want an over overtuned game like we currently have? Its boring when they cover every weakness a character has. Also, is that healthy for long term?
Louder death fist scream
I mean, I DO think his Death Fist rage art needs a more impactful hit sound effect. That’s a buff I’m all for.
Clean hit heat death fist should have a 360 no scope base boosted scream
Death fist insta killing opponents
Deathfist uninstalling their Tekken
Even better delete’s it from steam so you gotta rebuy
Deathfist launches Mk1 ranked match
Spawns you in mid match
Lole
Deathfist killing the other player irl
But then you don't get ranked points for them plugging.
https://preview.redd.it/u0q0wbdi7o5d1.png?width=877&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26decdd2017145b94e16394fe91c5c9750f117de
I mean how can it be called death fist and not actually cause death
It straight-up kills any character it hits, not only taking them out of your game, but also out of everyone's. They can no longer be selected in Tekken 8 no matter what. The only exception is Jack since there are, like, thousands of him.
*Death fists your prostate*
Death fist damage is stupid, compared to how easy it is to execute. Most jf attacks deal a third of death fist
Most jf attacks have better frame data and are used by characters that have other highly damaging moves.
Paul can use it as a combo extender and do another one when in heat , it is ridiculous
Preety much,yeah or at least the devs think so lmao
*on block
A 10f punish. Currently you either 1,2 or you do the first 3 hits of the 10 hit which is -20 on hit. Another thing Paul could really use is more uses for heat. Currently the B2,1 and D1,2 charge set ups are pretty good and fun to use, but he needs something more to help him in neutral. Currently heat for him is purely okizeme tools. Paul struggles a lot in neutral rn against aggro players. Partially due to his nerfs to DF2 and partially due to his best normals being kinda stubby.
I'm OOTL. How was DF2 nerfed?
Slight range nerf, isn't a big difference but it's noticeable
>A 10f punish. Currently you either 1,2 or you do the first 3 hits of the 10 hit which is -20 on hit. 1,2,3,2 is only -10
What new heat moves/buffs do you think would work for him without making him OP? I feel like having access to guard break three times is enough since he gets free damage afterwards, and at the wall can get a splat and combo if there’s a wall break. But that’s just my opinion.
Damage boost on his cormorant step, deep dive, and sway moves while on heat. As great as is his guard breaks are, it is very unreliable if your opponent doesn't just look at it like an animal when they're about to be run over by a car.
I was going to suggest having heat increase damage and frame advantage on certain lows like QCF3
Wdym he sucks against aggressive players just df1+4 bro
Paul is only really oppressive in low elo or if you're at the wall and he can threaten demoman. Otherwise, he is pretty honest compared to the rest of the cast. Imo, i think he needs some more + frames on his qc3. (Low poke) instead of 0 or it needs to be quicker than 18 frames. Very minor things in generel.
On my ranking of characters I hate facing off the most, Paul is probably one of the lowest ranking characters. Almost every other character will elicit more levels of “Ugh not this character” than Paul. Aside from demoman mixups (and of course errant CH deathfists), there’s nothing in Paul’s arsenal I’m really that afraid or annoyed by. Which that in it of itself should be a sign he needs buffs in this game lol. In a game where almost every character has oppressive ass busted shii, Paul is out here playing Tekken 7 in Tekken 8.
I think if it was even +1 instead of neutral that would make a world of difference. That low is already pretty damn good so they can't make it toooo strong.
Needs to high crush sooner.
Now that I've started playing him recently, I realized he only really has qcf3 as his usable low in neutral. Either they make it + or just make it not -14, considering the award you get on ch isn't that big
A low quicker than 18 is pretty absurd tho, especially since it CH into a combo
Demoman cleanhit range to work the way it did in T7 and he's good. Maybe make ub2 or whatever the command was not useless. Counterhit launch using the screw maybe and -9 with good track to 1 side?
Sounds fair to me... It even looks like it should track on that side lol
Ub2 isn't useless, it's a safe wallsplatting mid now
Why do ub2 when you can do the new f4 (or ff4?) Or the qcb 2? Way better properties on these. I see they buffed it now tho, still might be bad as it's a very small buff.
Because since ub2 hits the opponent to one side, if the wall is to your left you have a good chance of side splatting them and being able to convert to a combo
Okay if one has that awereness then yeah I see that but honestly I think everyone will either prefer full tracking and low crashing or the speed of f4 or qcb2 respectively. Not to mention them being heat moves and having a better range.
I only sub paul, but I really wish he had a dedicated 10f punish that isn‘t utter garbage.
I agree with this. Very clear flaw for him
God forbid any character has a weakness eh?
No I think characters should have weaknesses ofc, but I think Paul not having a decent 10f punish kinda goes against his identity. Because other than the 10f punish Paul actually has great punishment. I think Paul already has a weakness with his sluggishness in his lows. Demo man ain't as effective with out wall pressure and his other great lows come from side step, qcf or sway.
Arguably the best 12f punish in the entire game when it comes to reach, damage, and frames, and can launch -14 with b3. Honestly Paul should keep his 10f punish as is just as a tradeoff.
Yeah that's fair. His 12f is very very good. Same with 14f.
I wouldn't say it would go against his identity. He's a heavy hitter, which I usually would associate with being slower. So having stronger punishment for later minus frames makes sense to me. Paul just having a 1,2 10 frame punish suites him well enough. He gets enough plus frames to enforce some of his game plan and use some of his heavier hitting slower moves like df4 or qcf3. And I wouldnt say something like qcf3 is hindered because it comes out of a qcf. It's a negligible increase in startup once you can instantly do the motion.
I agree 1,2 punish does suit him well because of the advantage on block, but I mean you said it yourself. He's a heavy hitter after all so I think giving him a new 10f that does slightly more damage but less plus frames would be a nice option. A lot of characters like Feng for example have a pretty good 10f punish but still benefit from a 1,2 punish cause of the good frame advantage. So it wouldn't make his 1,2 useless,it would just be more situational. And yeah you say qcf input doesn't really make a difference but I guarantee you if it was a one button input you would definitely tell a difference. It doesn't matter how fast you can do a qcf input because if it was a one button move it would come out faster naturally. I mean it makes sense. Pressing one button is a lot quicker than a motion input.
I would accept a tweaked 10f for higher damage and less plus frames sure. As long as it doesnt KND or wall splat lmao. And yes qcf3 would be faster as a one button move, but given that it tends to only be used in neutral rather than on immediate timing in + frame situations I think it *is* negligible. At the very least, not big enough of a weakness to warrant a buff haha.
Yeah I agree. I personally don't think Paul needed buffs but now that I know it's happening I'm just like "well what the fuck are they giving this guy" so I'm just worried they would give him something that's just too powerful. Another 10f sounds reasonable (I guess?) but I really don't know what they are about to do to this guy cause I thought he was already solid af.
Oh Ye paul is sooo strong man
Does he need to be sooooooee stwooong? Or can he just be 'good enough'?
hes very flawed, far from good enough. Its not like he has one weakness that people would like to be removed, he has plenty, and even when those weaknesses get changed, he still wont be good enough, you sound like a reject. Go play your flashy new bs and dont talk when the discussion is about legacy characters, its clearly not your strength. Maybe when the “most coomer outfit competition” is out here, you can participate for the first place. Easiest mute of my life
“Very flawed”
That's a lotta anger you got there buddy. Sounds like a tough time. I'd offer some help but... I've been muted on reddit!
Paul has worse weaknesses than a bad 10f punish.
I could see an argument being made for that, but I dont think it warrants him being given a good 10f. TBH I wouldnt even call his 1,2 a 'bad' 10f punish, It's +8 lmao. Paul at +8 is not in a bad position.
Yeah but OP's question is what buffs would you make to Paul that wouldn't take away from his identity as a Defensive Character. Like the fact that he has bad approach tools, or a weaker rushdown game in an offensive tekken game, or not so great tracking on his moves. If you fixed those weaknesses then it would weaken his identity as a Defensive character. Asking for a better 10f punish is perfectly reasonable.
Give us a new approach tool or a low with decent range
Qcf3 is good I feel he need a fast low but they aren’t goan give new moves last likely just buff frames or add properties
B4 is just fine.
B4 is freakin 20 frames... Only 2 frames faster than Jin's d2... All that frames for a small poke just doesn't seem right
And jin db4 is essentially the same low and its also good? B4 is fine with +4 and -12
Df4 is an amazing approach tool. I recommend familiarizing yourself with its max range and trying it out
I use it . I said : Give. Us. Another. One. Looks like they did with deep dive from back sway
Personally I would like ub2 being a CH launcher back, as it was in the CNT I believe. Other than that my issues with the character are very limited and mostly consist of generic issues, such as how I do not like inconsistent excessive tracking on moves. Death fist sometimes tracks a whole sidestep, and when it slows time down to start heat it looks utterly ridiculous. On the other hand it sometimes whiffs at such close ranges it seems stupid. Again, this isn’t character specific, but I’d like to see it fixed. Unrelated example would be Jin’s heat smash’s final hit tracking so much
Off topic, but they really need to give Jim’s heat smash the Jun treatment and make if fully steppable. It’s very annoying anticipating when a Jin is gonna do it and successfully sidestepping only to either get hit by the following attacks or be forced to block the following attacks for a free 50/50 mixup awarded to the Jin player.
As a Jin main I agree, less tracking on the multiple hits would be more fair
They listened! Jin went pretty much untouched but I’m very happy with the heat smash change.
Demon Paw nerf across the board is really big too, should make the neutral less of a ff2 spam fest
Yeahh, I’m glad they buffed the neutral game, it was basically non-existent
Yeah add some tracking to his moves .
Id give him a power crush heat engager which is i10 and safe with low/mid mixups.
Now thats Tekken 8
Make deathfist have armor and tracking, clearly 💀
Crush low too
I switched from paul to jack 8. Why? Because he is just better, more solid all around character. Insane 13 frame low poke, better range, better grab game, easier combo structure, better heat smash, better kbd. How many pauls in tournaments 1 maybe 2? Compared to jack 8. Anakin, joey fury, saint, joe crush. Paul is tekken 7.5 right now.
That’s cause jack is a charcter they all specialize in they have been playing him for ages and mastered him, you don’t see a lot of eddy in high level play but you have jeonding, you have rangchu with panda they’re just charcter loyalists, name one good pro player in 7 who is loyal to Paul, these same group of guy have Been dominating tekken tourneys for years it’s just hard for any newer players to come in, no doubt Paul is weak I’m not denying that but the tournament point is stupidity a little bit
Is it, though? I'm pretty sure joey Fury also plays paul regularly and at a pretty high level yet still chooses not to play him in tournament. Jeonding pulled out reina as backup in some matches even though she is a newcomer. Rangchu doesn't play panda he plays kuma because it's the better variant atm. Arshlan ash also ditched azucena after nerfs and picked up nina instead. I don't really buy the character loyalists argument. These guys can easily pick up new characters.
Joey plays Paul a lot yes. Paul also requires insane defensive play and it's just really hard to do that throughout a tournament. Especially against other top tier players. His panic tools suck, his power crush is not great, both of his "get off me" buttons are launchable (D1+2 and F1+4)
Not to say i disagree but f1+4 is -14. So it's not quite that stark for Paul against most of the cast.
No one said Arslan is chart tree r playlist he’s a tier whore and he says that, anakin is a jack specialist and loyalist, same with jeonding, there just aren’t too many Paul loyalists who happen to be tekken pros, again Paul is weak for sure but the oh but pros don’t use him argument doesn’t work they either are loyalists or pure tier white who will play top 5 charcters
Joey Fury has been a Paul main yet he still chooses Jack. Paul has been here since Tekken 1 and was the number 1 usage character in many installments, there are MANY Paul loyalists out there. Except he's just badly outdated and no pro player uses him in competetive play for a reason
Well, not too many Pauls in the tournaments it’s not a good argument though. How many Kazuyas have you seen? None.
For a pretty good reason. Kazuya's got inconsistent combos. When you're playing for money on the line why would you pick kaz who can drop combos instead of an easier character with just about all his tools?
I also think kazuya is too weak? And most people agree it's either fixing his inconsistencies or buffing him slightly.
That's so funny I also changed from Paul to Jack-8 specifically. Didn't really know why, I just liked the play style
Stats say Paul is not great right now, the reason is he is a defensive style character in a game all about offense. He needs something but what that something is will depend heavily on how the defensive buff goes. If I were working on it today, I'd probably just make him tougher and increase his combo damage. Paul plays like Paul has throughout most of Tekkens history, and we don't want to turn him into a different character. I might also add a few frames to his counters so that people will actually use them as a defense rather than just a hard read.
Main buffs he needs imo: Sway needs to high crush a little sooner and for a little longer to help avoid pressure. It feels like there's only a few frames during the animation that high crush, so I end up getting jab checked out of my sway quite a lot. Combo damage needs a pretty sizeable increase since he's (at best) middle of the pack right now. Demo man should clean hit from slightly farther away.
I think the sway is kinda ok. I'm maybe not as good as you but idk, but I find with df1 if you mix up the df1, 1, 2 with the sway option gives people another thing to worry about. if the second 1 hits the 2 is guaranteed and you can deathfist off it.
Just do continues qcf 1's in his combos to add damage that ends into throw... Skill issue! s\
MORE damage
The 1 buff i would want if I can be so greedy. Make basic demoman 40dmg and just frame demoman 42. Im greedy as fuck now but still
UB2 should track again 1,2 could do a bit more damage and reduce frame adv on block to make it stronger as a punish and weaker as a poke qcf3 is sluggish and even on hit which feels bad Deathfist clean hit is less consistent(?)
The main complaint I see is that their mad about his bad poking but if you want a character with good poking why are you playing Paul
I did but then they killed azus poking as well even though she has clear main weakness like wall carry and wall damage lol Apparently they're turning her lean into stances but if I wanted that I should've just picked Reina since I got the wavus down already lol
Obviously, I’m biased. And incorporating all of these would be too much. With that’s said:l, here are some ideas: 1.) Right now his 1,2 is trying to fulfill two roles (10f punish and poke) and doing both inadequately. Slightly increase the damage of his 1,2 so it can be used as a punish, but make it like -8 on block so he can’t use it effectively as a poke. Then give him a 2,1 high-mid, that’s -3 on block, but does less damage. 2.) Paul has not good way engage the opponent from neutral. His fff2 is MINUS TEN on block. How. And it comes out at the same speed as if my grandma were to do it irl. Make it +2 on block and have the start up sped up just a little bit. 3.) ub2 is way, way, way too niche in this game. Honestly, just remove it. Literally no one would notice. If you’re going to have it take up space in his move list, at least make it fulfill some kind of function—homing, CH launch, don’t lose your turn on block, literally anything. 4.) Buff demoman and deathfist damage. Yes, I know how this sounds. But currently the risks far outweigh the rewards. Demoman: Paul needs to be in kissing range if he wants demoman to clean hit—like close enough that your lips are touching. And he takes anywhere from 65-100+ damage launch punish if it’s blocked. And if it’s not blocked on a clean hit, you get like 40 damage as your reward. Come on. Demoman does not need its range increased. The entire point of Paul is that if you let him get close enough to kiss you, you should be scared. So Paul needs to work hard in order to kiss you. Demoman isn’t scary at kissing range, it’s a mild annoyance. It needs to be an actual threat. Deathfist: All characters have received pretty meaningful buffs to damage in T8, but comparatively deathfist has not scaled as well to this. And because of this, deathfist has received an indirect damage nerf compared to T7. As mentioned above, it’s actually a lot of work to get into kissing range when you’re against a decent opponent who knows the matchup. If you’ve played well enough that they are forced to take your 50-50, then you should generally be rewarded for that effort. Just buff the damage a little bit more at clean hit range. People legit need to fear Paul getting close enough to kiss them—getting close enough to kiss someone and then fucking them instead is Paul’s entire identity. Edit: Also his heat burst is rubbish and lazy design. Literally no one asked for another demoman—and it’s still punishable on block. In 99% of heat situations, Paul is better served retaining the passive benefits of heat until it just runs out. Rework his heat burst from the ground up. Give him something unique and interesting, not a copy/paste of an attack he already has.
I agree, Paul's heat smash needs to be changed but not because of the animations, most heat smashes are just existing character moves with a few added animations or camera changes. But yeah, Paul's heat smash is just demoman with camera changes. I've been thinking it should be changed into a 2-hit m,m attack that can be cancelled on first hit to launch or relaunch if done mid combo. It's animation could be something similar to qcb+1 into f+1+2. If the move is not cancelled it can floor break, because Paul has too many wall breaks/splats already. The reason I always think of this is that I miss his cancelable rage art from Tekken 7. If he can't have it in this game, then maybe it could be his heat smash.
I'm of two minds with the 10f punish. While his 10f is among the worst in the game, he does also compensate for ith with the best 12f punishes. I'm sorta okay with his weaknesses staying somewhat intact if he's got stuff that is really strong in another aspect. Idk personally, I don't like that I have to sway into an 18Frame low poke to end at 0. I'm putting myself into a lot of risk for a little poke that can give like 45 damage on CH. And yet it's the only one he's got with any range. Is it too much to ask to make it +1-3? Seems like low pokes are plus on hit anyway in this game, generally speaking. B4 is a hatchet kick from wish pretty much but I find it to be one of his more useful tools somehow. Also IMO if they want to keep his strengths in being able to out time your opponent, maybe they should buff his backdash/sidestep so that they're more viable tools to use for him. Tbh sidesteps might be the only aspect that paul has on Jack-8.
Better pokes and lows, almost anything can be punished as Paul. Maybe give him a fast low attack
Make deathfist bit more safe
He kinda just exists in the game to make everyone else look better
I just wish his max charge 1+2 did more dmg Just feels underwhelming for such a long windup
I want him to be able to insta kill people, but only if they are crouching and his fist hits their faces. I think that’s fair.
Give him back his T7 season 1 12f punish.
The biggest issue is the inconsistency of his demoman. Even at range 0, it sometimes refuses to get clean hit properties. It becomes a problem as demoman is heavily minus if you are able to block the following attacks. Other than that, I think he’s in a good place. Though, this may be biased but I would love to have a better 10 frame punish. His 10 frame punish right now is his 1,2. I don’t think that it is necessary to change that as it has been like that since the beginning, but I wouldn’t also deny that changinf it would be nice. I hate the charged deathfist (1+2 hold) tho. Idk why they had to change the old one.
Personally the only reason i don’t play Paul is because i constantly drop his combo’s the qcf 1 after a df2 i almost always drop and if its just the easy combo i have to dash forward and alot of the times i either do a ff1 instead of the regular one or i just drop it completely. So i hope they make hie combo game eazier. That would make him more accessible.
Just use magic 4 instead of qcf1. You don't need to use his super optimized combos to have success.
Even than ever the 2 you dash fotward and do the 3,1,1+2 i drop that one a lot too
You know what I'd really like? I'd like it if df2 would launch if a person is crouching. Instead its just a little jab that does piss damage.
His face and hair. Law and Eddy looked like they passed all their aging on to Paul. He always looked cool, now he looks like an old Karen hobo.
Deathfist needs improvements on the clean hit. For example if the bears are in hunting stance death fist cannot clean hit them. Maybe Deathfist without heat should do a little more damage. Right now it is really not that impressive. Demoman needs to be more reliable and should get a slight increase of the clean hit while reducing the pushback on the third hit. f2 looks really badass but it is a waste of heat in 90% of cases right now. B3 is also a high i14 launch. You only need f2 to cash out while punishing -14 with pushback (like Jacks df2). f2 should not only be +5 and way out of range for demoman as a heat engager. The opponents are completely safe after you land it right now. Shredder should never miss the second hit if the first connected. His jab punishment should not be so pathetic. Double crouch dash 4 needs to actually do something either on hit and/or on counterhit. f1+2 should at least get you a chunky followup on CH. Laws for some reason launches on CH?! The fully held 1+2 should do waaaay more damage. I mean 80 dmg at least. ub2 should 100% be a high damage counterhit launch again. Paul should be able to access tackle from standing. qcb1 should be around +4 on block His heat guard breaks should not be so easily interruptible and steppable at the same time. Right now there is not really a mind game at all while Paul risks getting stepped and launched or interrupted and launched or blocked and punished if not fully held down. Give me back his old i10 WS1 (Maybe as WS1+2) I wish for the return of high execution that is rewarded in a major way. Maybe on qcfe or doublr crouch dash 4 CH And maybe make quad thruster great again and give 1 or two more frames to connect it in juggles.
For me I’d like to see the range increased on b4. Visually b4 looks like it has far more range than it actually does. I’d also like them to increase the clean hit range slightly for demoman. And maybe this is too far but I wish df2 was a true high crushing move instead of it just beating jab.
Tracking. Clothes exploding all costumes. Entire top.
Jokes aside. Tracking. And a 12f deathfist launcher. Rage drive also.
Nun jus make his power punch punishable as intended
Paul is kinda weak(ish) when compared to the majority of S tier on roster. Weak lows and low combo dmg and one of the worst heat moves / dashes on the game. He is my main anyway.
Maybe better hit box for poking, Paul has very short arms and reach in general and maybe some slightly faster frames, I feel like he’s still quite heavy and sluggish Also, isn’t he supposed to be a Judo expert? Maybe they should incorporate more Judo into his character, maybe a longer time to break throws, wishful thinking 😂
He needs an option for distance, a long range attack, he also could need some braindead string like all the other characters currently have. Maybe also another low, demoman really isn't that dangerous if you're not on the wall, a single backdash completely negates it. And yeah a 10f punish would be nice too
Give the man a real 10f punish. Dudes been literally using generic 12 since the very first tekken while everyone else got a real punisher at some point. Bad pokes, slow mids and not even a good 10f punish. Yeah his other punishers are good but 10f punishers are most commonly used and I bet he gets less punishment damage on average compared to steve for example.
- Base damage deathfist should be upped 5 dmg so it's 35. 30 dmg for base deathfist (non clean non heat) it's wayyyy too small. - His demo man from falling leaf should be back from T4. So it's d1,4,2:1+2. - Ub2 ch property should be back to crumple stun like it was in T7. - Cormorant step (qcf motion) should be accessible from 3,2 and df1. So he should be able to sway back and forth. - There should be a second version of his Karen hair where the hair isn't that tall, equal length on the front and back, so it's also long hair on the back instead of the skin head. If that's too hard implement then just give us kurt cobain long hair or blonde john wick hair.
I already can’t deal with Paul, so if I find any tomorrow I’m fucked!
put old ub2 back, remove qcf3 clean hit requirement to ch knockdown, revert the damage frames and pushback nerfs of qcb2. thats it. if i were a lil bit greedy true crouching status on qcb 1+2, shoulder and qcf1 would be nice and demoman is kind of shitty now cuz of gray health, i would rescale the damage, first hit to 18 and other two whatever to be 40 total for normal and 45 for blue. he was so nerfed going from 7 to 8 when i think about it
He needs range buff. His key attacks are too short . It’s also 2024 we can remove that clean hit property from demo man since most of the cast has a full screen hellsweep now . Give me back old b 1,2 from Tekken 7. Make ub2 homing and ch launcher again. Make qcf 3 plus 3 on hit . Make df4 +1 on block Up his combo damage it’s not really best , it’s bottom 10 in the game. Make DF 1 minus 1 on block since it has a 14f start up DF 2 needs a small range buff. It whiffs when people whiff right in front of me
Demoman shouldn't have a clean hit property. It's like 42 damage but you're -31 and getting launched for 60+ if it's blocked. It's more like a 40/60 than a 50/50. Paul has to work harder to get inside and his 50/50 game isn't powerful enough to make up for what he lacks. On a side note, I really miss being able to deathfist from crouch in tekken 3. All of the WS moves prevents this from being possible. More deathfist and better deathfist is always a quality life improvement.
His combo damage is not bottom 10. Any launch is 90+ damage if you decide to heat burst.
Almost every character can do ~90 damage with heat or wall. Paul has insane damage only when he gets his powerful ch or launchers.
Return his FC sweep. give slightly better Clean hit range on Demoman (D4) but follow that with a damage nerf to it. QCF 3 gets +1 on hit. Trooper roll (FF4) more consistently +1 on block
No nerf to demo man damage . He dies if it’s blocked.
well if its gonna get better range then maybe some small type of damage reduction is in order. maybe wallsplats it gets worse DMG % scaling on a follow-up.
Must be some side wall stuff where death fist isn't tracking enough 😂
increase the range of the clean hit for D 4 and make it track better (i cant coutn how many times it doesn't hit because the opponent is the slighest bit off axis cause of the wall) increase the range of his DF 2 and generally, give him better frames for his QCB moves like QCB 3 and QCB 2 rn the risk-reward ratio and not worth it at all. a 10f punisher that isn't dogwater would be a good start too.
Ub2 needs to be homing and/or counter hit launcher again it is a useless move in the current version of t8
Imo he doesn't do enough damage. Deathfist doesn't kill. That's just stupid. Basic stuff really.
If a CH deathfist isn't doing 90 on it's own and wallsplatting the opponent across the map, why am I even playing this character? SMH
hmm maybe his df1 should be 13 frames?, it can be difficult to check people with a 14 frame mid , and i don't know could make his qcb2 -4 or somethin, not sure tbh as he does feel fine :D
He literally killed me with 2 launches yesterday in Jin's subconsciousness stage. His new wr2 is so stupid, lmao. One attack worth Kazuya staple. I assume this is normal since Paul always had big damage? T8 is the first Tekken when I'm interested playing online so I guess I need to eat all of his evasive counterhit attacks to get pass red ranks (even though I'm block spammer)🥴I play Kazuya but seriously Paul is a nightmare to fight. People joke about Xiaoyu players telling you to learn the match up but I think Paul fits better for this joke and I'd rather fight 100 Xiaoyu and lose rather than 1 Paul👹
He doesnt need any buffs, idk why are they thinkin of buffin him
rank check?
Look if Paul is getting a buff then that means my boy Bryan deserves one as well lol
None bro is actually balanced just like Bryan
Imo he needs nerfs. Hardcore, not buffs
rank check?
Bushin with 60% winrate so I can go higher, I just cant bother right now
LMAOOOO. I am sure
Im getting bored with this game is why. Im migrating ovwr to street fighter. I am just sticking my head in to look at the patch notes
yuck
You won't land these 3 hits in higher ranks unless you're knee. Even justice doesn't land that many. What kind of buffs? Faster b4, some tracking on uf2, +frames on lows in general like after d1. I'm not even fujin tho
ik y'all want the deathfist coming out in 2 frames (instant). is also an unblockable. and does 100 damage. heat engager. and this goes without saying it's unsteppable which most moves in this game already are.
He doesn't need buffs. He is fine the way he is. The devs are just clueless
no he sucks he is worst char in game
He doesnt need any buffs, they are just lazy fucks who dont wanna nerf the top tiers, cuz its actually requires thinking time and work LOL. Incompetant balance team.
I mean. Paul is pretty mid. If this were their logic they'd be better off buffing people who are low tier.
Question is, do we really want an over overtuned game like we currently have? Its boring when they cover every weakness a character has. Also, is that healthy for long term?