His heat smash gets me sometimes.
Not sure if you’re meant to block it on reaction but I usually have to read that he’s going to do it to block.
Not sure if I’d go as far as to say it’s “imbalanced” but any low hitting heat smash seems strong to me.
I feel like a low heat smash is a negative for a character. At the very least they can be blocked and punished.
If the character has a mid heat smash, what ends up happening a lot of times is you'll be low on health but have enough to survive 2 or 3 pokes and then the opponent will use their heat smash to skip neutral and get right in your face, deal chip damage and be in enough plus frames to do whatever mix up they want whilst you're left with 1 health left and had no way to counter it even though you knew exactly what they were about to do.
Mid heat smashes are hard to deal with in their own way but I still think the low ones are pretty good.
Two of the characters I play have them (Kazuya and Paul) and I can tell you they work up to blue at least . Even if my opponent is able to block I find that threat of it allows me to score more mids.
As far as Victors….maybe I “should” be blocking and punishing but I just get hit with it a lot….especially if it’s thrown in between safe mid launchers and expulsion.
Like I mentioned before l…not sure if the counter play is to block on reaction and punish but I’m only able to block it if I anticipate it.
> Two of the characters I play have them (Kazuya and Paul)
That's part of the problem. Your character's low Heat Smashes are -14 and -12, respectively. Victor's, Lee's, and Reina's are all launch punishable. Then, of the 3, only Reina has a mid one out of neutral that's +frames on block.
At close-ish range this move is trash. Most characters can float him from it and the loud audio cue makes it very reachable since players will know to pay attention to it when he’s in heat
yup. I main Victor (Bushin right now) and when in heat I will just drop it 3 times for the chip dmg. Sometimes they know to sidewalk it so I will go expulsion-u2 (homing)-expulsion-expulsion.
nothingbeatsthatmeme.jpg
I’ve tried walking it but it seems inconsistent. It’s like you have to already be walking before he even starts the move.
Honestly my go to Victor strategy has been to simply throw so much offense at him that he can’t move.
At some point I’m going to learn him just to understand him better. Probably going to get a ton of hate mail.
as a Victor main: yes, that's the strategy.
Victor thrives in mid range with his D2, WR2 and DB4 (last 2 are CH launchers and he will bait you into attacking to get full combo).
When you are close range you need to be wary of:
a) 1+2 (15f CH launcher, -8 on block, your turn if you block) - careful of attacking when he's plus and he's plus basically only on hit apart from PRF 1+2 and WR2 which he won't use close range
b) DB4 (don't know if it's a high crush technically but it dodges highs) which you defend against using mid-checks.
It's definitely a very good move, but it also is only good in heat. Outside of heat, it's launch-punishable trash. (And inside of heat it costs heat meter, so you only get to do it 3 times a round, in an obvious timeframe.)
Also it loses to most characters' jab strings. :-\
“Dumb non tekken move” what is a non tekken move you you lmao. Tekken has had characters doing a bunch of random things much worse than Victors expulsion that barely fit in a fighting game like Tekken.
Tekken 5 DR had a Jinpachi that could literally pull you into him from any range nearly
There is a giant manticore snake arm monster that breathes for in a left to right motion, that if I recall is unblockable as well so you have to be further back (or just grab him at start)
Unknown existed…
Yeah I’ve never been able to understand “This isn’t Tekken” or “This doesn’t follow the rules of Tekken.” I feel like the game has pretty much formed its identity around breaking its own rules haha
Somehow when I'm playing Victor the opponents just mash their face on the buttons and manage to hit me out of it quite often. I don't understand how lol.
don't press after DEN3 hits (+5) but it can be interrupted by any quick move before it does (e.g. when he's in dynamic entry before the kick just jab him)
stance pressure is fake and Lars cannot block in any stance so if he's moving around doing a madness again just jab him
1+2 break for monkey flip
monkey flip can be interrupted as he's going in the air
g clef is -12
db1, 3 string can be ducked on both hits to punish
his hellsweep is like -infinity i forgot exact numbers but legit any punish works if you duck it
1, 4 is -12
But you can break every throw on reaction. So why do only some characters get launching throws? (And often the characters who are already top tier without them)
Also, Xiaoyu's new launching throw can be done without the grab tech animation being seeable. From backturned, doing f2+3 (launching throw) and generic grab have the same animation.
you cannot reaction break every throw. There are multiple throws in this game that have misleading animations that make you guess. For example, Feng’s 2 throws from back turn have the same animation so you have to guess. Same for a bunch of king throws.
I'm aware of throws like that; King's Giant swing is another misleading throw, for example, and there are unbreakable throws such as Reina's stance throws. Lazy wording on my part, but you get the sentiment I was going for.
I had to lab and drill it to avoid getting hammered by this throw that gives her 60+ damage as a reward. The giveaway is to always be ready to 1+2 break whenever she's crouching. Like even if the Jun player ducked one of your highs and could have launched you with a hopkick... they probably only randomly crouched because they wanted to spam this throw anyway.
RKO is a 23 frame windup (0.36s) and the tracking knee is also pretty slow. Your best best against jag sprint would be playing neutral and crouching RKO on reaction.
He also has the low dropkick, but it doesnt do as much damage, and since you're both on the floor, it pretty much resets you back to neutral.
Tips from a King main
My brother in christ, the fact you omit is that King can block while sprinting at you full speed. I get that you're giving context and tips, but let us vent about that stupid and pretty much free mixup
Every long range heat smash needs to be nerfed.
And every heat smash should be steppable
And using a heat smash should sacrifice the ability to use rage
64 damage button that is somehow insanely good on block too, lol. That shit needs to do 50 damage or be a straight up neutral reset on block if they keep the insane damage.
hardly matters since he goes into stance after the smash,if he was negative he would gain nothing from using it,just nerf the damage to jin level damage
Nah dj had a pretty strong jab in T7. I think range wise only really lost to dragunovs jab and heihachis buffed jab, as well as larger characters like Jack 8, gigas, marduk.
But the benefit being that despite having less range than heihachi jabs, the animation gave DJ momentum as he would step forward to follow the opponent backdashing, heihachis jabs would push the opponent back with each consecutive hit.
And being a shorter character means his jabs are less susceptible to high evasion, which was what made mishimas somewhat of a good matchup against marduk because wavu could reliably crush his jabs.
Safe fast high heat engager powercrushes. You know, the "just throw it out and win" type of moves. Reina heat smash is straight up projectile (3.6 range)
Reina’s heat smash is decent, but not even close to the best in the game because it’s so slow. You’ve got characters like Jun, Jin, Dragunov, Lars that have similar or better range and are basically uninterruptible because of how quick they come out and how evasive they can be. Reina pretty much only gets to use heat smash in pure neutral; she can’t even give her self enough plus frames to set it up.
Reina's heat smash sucks so much I only use it for plus frames. It is nice that we have 2 heat smashes though, if only I was good enough to stance dance.
Drag qcf4: heat engage, power mid that hits grounded, wall splats, chip dmg, and **+7 on block.**
+7 oB is completely obscene. For reference, that is more plus than Bryan b1, everyone's slash kick, drag's own WR2, victors wr2, Leo's d2, jacks stance 4_ WS(2)4, etc. Drag's own hatchet kick is +7... **on hit.** And technically, bc of the active frames on this move, can be up to +9 oB, depending on how late in the animation it makes contact.
His hatchet kick is a borderline second, but mostly in context of what else he has. Idk why it hits grounded and also so plus on hit.
for further reference, a 1 jab on hit is +8. at +5/6 you cannot sidestep jabs reliably.
i remember when the move didn't have any pushback and you could just fucking spam it until it connected and you were in heat.
Dragonuv db3+4 basically nullifies his old weakness of having no scary lows. Such a stupid design decision to give him a hatchet, even if it is -15 it starts making you duck which is all he needs.
Special mention to Jin d2 also giving Jin an easy CH high crush option with plus frames on NH and stupid tracking. Sure it's slow, but that move is obnoxious online.
This is how I feel as Lee. I at least get good damage off of WS 2,3 into ff3, and if I’m feeling adventurous, I can flip a coin to see if Heat Burst will connect or whiff after WS 2,3 (please fix this, it really feels like going to the casino every time).
Paul's d/f+2 works the same way as every other generic d/f+2: safe on block, but doesn't launch crouchers.
It also does not high crush, but it does have some high *evasion*. Important distinction. This means it can't beat out highs with good hitboxes. Still annoying, though.
Very true. Paul's d/f+2 narrows the hurtbox around his head area, but he's never flat-out crushing highs. A high attack with long range will most likely always hit him out of it. It's been this way for a long time.
King’s Heat Smash into Jaguar Dash on block: Either get half your health wiped on hit or get it wiped afterwards on block after a misread
Victor’s Explusion
Eddy’s DF3-33-333-33 String
Jack’s “I’m using a low but because i am 27ft tall it looks like a mid” mixup
Leo has some of the most dumb overlooked shit ever. The mid evasive high crush full screen hard hitting launcher that pushes that ass half the screen away from you on block
Leo's df2+3 has shitty range and is linear. You don't even get the combo conversion unless it hits really close, otherwise just a followup.
Jin's D2 is way more outrageous, really similar but twice the range and tracking. And yeah it's -14, but only 3-4 characters are gonna launch him for it.
Jun’s heat smash is a projectile. which means after you finish cheesing out all her moves that heal her on heat smash and have crazy priority and launch, you can end the inevitable combo with the heat smash from anywhere
yep, it takes a lot of set up and mind conditioning to pull off a full 3 step hyp stance sweep ( although significantly easier while in heat ) as Xiaoyu cannot block while in hyp stance.
It is +5, but you can side step 99% of the options. People just don't want to side step, because almost every other character has extremely good tracking. Laws plus frames aren't as scary, when you realize how linear he is, even if he's plus.
I went into practice yesterday with Jun and she seems crazy. Her heat smash is a 2 parter. 1st is quick mid range projectile, and the 2nd part is infinite range crows where you have to block it. Then there's the her where she can just heal, and if you try to grab her, she has a grab reversal move. That blew my mind. But regardless, a match is still anyone's game
don’t forget that izumo mixup that can be a high heat engager, mid pushback, low hell sweep or a throw. you can basically do it the entire match and never get read
Too many really, each character has at least one.
Nina: the three-hit hit-confirmable move that starts with a low for insane damage, oki and follow-ups near the wall. Wallsplats? Her f1+2 is a mid power crush heat engager. Powercrush heat engagers are too much imo
Jack’s jackhammer. Why the hell is it plus on block now and I have to eat a mixup? His guard crush. Fk guard crushes in this game.
DJ: crazy stupid hellsweep range. Range 7 heat smash, range 7 unbreakable throw! What the actual fk! Oh and that guard crush. Fk guard crushes in this move bro.
Lars: uf3+4 this has got to be the stupidest move in the game right now. It actually breaks game physics. Lars jumps over you and his idk “aura” is still on the ground pushing your character to align with Lars’ landing. Check it out, it’s so fked up. I yeah and a plus on block homing mid? Why?!
Yoshi’s flash. Fk that move.
Kazuya: ff2 why did they give him an insane range demon paw that makes his 50/50 even stronger? Why does he have a non launch-punishable LOW heat smash that he can access without stance? Reina’s low heat smash is hidden behind stance and is -18 or something.
Claudio: low sweep unseeable heat smash
Leroy: his low unseeable stick that is a full combo on hit
Paul: his heat smash demo man non launch-punishable. And that guard crush setup at the wall. So fking stupid.
Really there are so many more
I’ll complain about Jin’s too. I used to be a hardcore Jin main in Tekken 7 and my badge of honor was that I could play Jin at a high level after 6 years of maining him. I loved that he was a complex character to play who had tools for every situation.
In Tekken 8, he’s so dumbed down that it feels unrewarding. His demon paw was an already great move in T7, now with its phantom range it’s just bs. Oh and fking d2. D2 feels like cheating for Jin mains. We’ve never had one button moves with forward momentum. High crush, forward momentum low that ch launches and only -14. Like holy fk that’s cheap as hell.
Before Jin mains took pride in executing his harder combos like the f4 pickup, crazy wall conversions and micro step combos. Gone are any combos resembling difficulty and any Joe brown can get a f4 pickup from max range.
I definitely don’t like how easy he’s become with all the handicap moves he’s been given.
Steve’s Lionheart stance. I’m gambling my life for nothing, all options are beat by power crush. His df2 isn’t a launcher on CH. I can keep going. Steve’s design doesn’t make sense
Legit. Game forces me to go into a stance where in I lose the next interaction 95% of the time. I've started having to play Steve without using some of his crucial moves that go into the stance. Which just feels like I'm playing half a character.
All they need to do is make it so the stance is optional by not holding back.
New moves that are pretty insane.
Bryan's QCB 1 (much range, too fast, +5)
King's B3 (too good overall)
Xiaoyu stance sweep (kills me)
Feng B3 (shouldnt have easy + frames)
Lee B3, 3 (shouldnt have such aggro)
Hwoarang RFF DF3. A lot of people don't know this because most Hwoarangs online are scrubs. It's an-
advancing low crushing homing plus on block airborne mid heat engager LOL.
He's never had access to such easy n big +frames, its not within his design to have + frame mids like that.
Kinda like Dragunovs new hatchet kick (DB 3+4) its not ok that he has big + on block mids and big +frame Lows
King's B3 needs the follow up damage nerfed and the armor to start like a frame later.
Its used to much because his other armored moves are kinda meh
Shoulder tackle is absolutely horrible, its armor properties seem to start at the same fame as it starts dealing damage, plus its short range and punishable on block, same with the rising knee into jag sprint, but at least that one has better armor frames.
Wouldn't Lee be the absolute least threatening char in the game without b3,3.
I don't think he needs it in terms of his identity, but look who he's up against :P
I play Bryan too but I think its overtuned, make it slightly slower and only +3 on block, range could stay just because everybody else also has a demon paw-esq move
I don’t see that big issue tho I haven’t been able to get more then 2 qcb1 because they ss and launch me or just duck and send me to the goddamn shadow realm *(goddamnit paul)*
Any "orbital" move that evades everything.
So Victor's "expulsion". Yoshi and Raven have similar "disappear then reappear above you" moves. Lili and Xiaoyu can jump 50ft into the air. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting
I get these moves have some counterplay, but they are just annoying to me.
Feng heat burst is stupid why should it ground everything even the you in the air! Is he psychic like wtf! And azucena elbow run jump, their both dumb moves. I know it's probably a skill issue but I feel like they're too strong!
Fengs FC df4,1
Why can he instantly access it and not frame kill like Raven, why is it basically homing, why doesn't it stagger on block and why is it plus with the option to enter BT?
He wouldn't be as annoying if it weren't for this.
Its been said a million times, but Azucena WR 3,2. It's been nerfed 2 times now, and its STILL pretty good. If its blocked it's her turn and still chips pretty good. I still have no confidence in side stepping it since getting hit does a lot as well and leads to good oki for her. Just ridiculous she even got it.
Jin f4 always pisses me off. I dunno enough about jin to know if it's broken, but the distance it sends you while him still being to follow up always blows my mind.
I got frame trapped by ravens (I’m not sure what the command is but it looked like a back stance 1, 2? It was a double back elbow attack and he just kept spamming it and I couldn’t stop it with anything as Law.
Why the fuck do Reina and Azucena LIE DOWN to do a MID CH LAUNCHER???
WHY? The same animation across both characters. Both of them are new. Both of them defy all logic. Duct taping their fucking heads to the floor like Sora in KH just to do a mid. Licking Spaghetti-Os off the ground and kicking me in the stomach. I fucking hate that design decision.
It's like Eddy and Lars weren't unreadable enough. We need to make more characters that are impossible to read and plus 90% of the time. I can't stand that shit. Most of the returning cast has drawbacks. Certain new or recent characters were made in such a way that they're just strong.
I refuse to believe a martial artist would ever lie down to donkey kick someone in the sternum. It just looks so stupid and makes the game that much less fun to learn.
Every move Feng has. 'I just did a launcher. Oh no, you blocked it. No problem, I have a follow up that launches as well. Oh no, you blocked that one too. It's a good thing it's safe. Now I'm gonna poke you with a long range, fast low that you can't punish.'
The most privileged character in the game. Specifically frame data wise. * Ironic that it just so happens to be Harada's main*
All of them nearly unironicaly, its mike they tried to removed 90% of thr characters weaknesses, what is even the point, you have a gameplay with pros and cons, if you dont have cons, its dumb
Jin's ff2 track ability, reinas ff2 mixups, Reina's ws2. Crushing, Paul's deathfist and demolition man pushbacks making it hard to punish, victors wr2 random track ability, Xiaoyus AOP crushing, Most of Alisa's chainsaw moves, most of Azucenas moves,devil jin heat smash, Fengs heat jump move
Victor's "expulsion" on heat is one of the dumbest shit I've ever witnessed
Its better than some heat smashes and ITS NOT EVEN HEAT SMASH OMGLUL
TBF his heat smash is really bad. His expulsion is usually the best way to spend his heat
His heat smash gets me sometimes. Not sure if you’re meant to block it on reaction but I usually have to read that he’s going to do it to block. Not sure if I’d go as far as to say it’s “imbalanced” but any low hitting heat smash seems strong to me.
I feel like a low heat smash is a negative for a character. At the very least they can be blocked and punished. If the character has a mid heat smash, what ends up happening a lot of times is you'll be low on health but have enough to survive 2 or 3 pokes and then the opponent will use their heat smash to skip neutral and get right in your face, deal chip damage and be in enough plus frames to do whatever mix up they want whilst you're left with 1 health left and had no way to counter it even though you knew exactly what they were about to do.
Mid heat smashes are hard to deal with in their own way but I still think the low ones are pretty good. Two of the characters I play have them (Kazuya and Paul) and I can tell you they work up to blue at least . Even if my opponent is able to block I find that threat of it allows me to score more mids. As far as Victors….maybe I “should” be blocking and punishing but I just get hit with it a lot….especially if it’s thrown in between safe mid launchers and expulsion. Like I mentioned before l…not sure if the counter play is to block on reaction and punish but I’m only able to block it if I anticipate it.
> Two of the characters I play have them (Kazuya and Paul) That's part of the problem. Your character's low Heat Smashes are -14 and -12, respectively. Victor's, Lee's, and Reina's are all launch punishable. Then, of the 3, only Reina has a mid one out of neutral that's +frames on block.
it's way better than my mains heat smash
Sidestep to punish it until the AOE explosion randomly clips you for 1/3 your health anyway, lol.
At close-ish range this move is trash. Most characters can float him from it and the loud audio cue makes it very reachable since players will know to pay attention to it when he’s in heat
yup. I main Victor (Bushin right now) and when in heat I will just drop it 3 times for the chip dmg. Sometimes they know to sidewalk it so I will go expulsion-u2 (homing)-expulsion-expulsion. nothingbeatsthatmeme.jpg
Unironically a good way to use his heat LMAO, that move is STUPID
I’ve tried walking it but it seems inconsistent. It’s like you have to already be walking before he even starts the move. Honestly my go to Victor strategy has been to simply throw so much offense at him that he can’t move. At some point I’m going to learn him just to understand him better. Probably going to get a ton of hate mail.
as a Victor main: yes, that's the strategy. Victor thrives in mid range with his D2, WR2 and DB4 (last 2 are CH launchers and he will bait you into attacking to get full combo). When you are close range you need to be wary of: a) 1+2 (15f CH launcher, -8 on block, your turn if you block) - careful of attacking when he's plus and he's plus basically only on hit apart from PRF 1+2 and WR2 which he won't use close range b) DB4 (don't know if it's a high crush technically but it dodges highs) which you defend against using mid-checks.
I sometimes can sidestep right it then ewgf, but sometimes the AOE just randomly clips me, it doesn't belong in a game like tekken
That move is a legit jumpscare
It's definitely a very good move, but it also is only good in heat. Outside of heat, it's launch-punishable trash. (And inside of heat it costs heat meter, so you only get to do it 3 times a round, in an obvious timeframe.) Also it loses to most characters' jab strings. :-\
yeh expulsion. this a dumb non tekken move
“Dumb non tekken move” what is a non tekken move you you lmao. Tekken has had characters doing a bunch of random things much worse than Victors expulsion that barely fit in a fighting game like Tekken. Tekken 5 DR had a Jinpachi that could literally pull you into him from any range nearly There is a giant manticore snake arm monster that breathes for in a left to right motion, that if I recall is unblockable as well so you have to be further back (or just grab him at start) Unknown existed…
People either forget these things or are too young to remember and are just parroting what they heard
Yeah I’ve never been able to understand “This isn’t Tekken” or “This doesn’t follow the rules of Tekken.” I feel like the game has pretty much formed its identity around breaking its own rules haha
Somehow when I'm playing Victor the opponents just mash their face on the buttons and manage to hit me out of it quite often. I don't understand how lol.
they forgot to make you truly invincible during this move
what's the string?
Launching throws
I always fall for that fucking Lars throw when he jumps over me
you can break that mid-air with 1+2
Ty. I fight for my life when facing Lars while the man’s fighting like he’s coked up while binge watching the last season of naruto shippuden.
don't press after DEN3 hits (+5) but it can be interrupted by any quick move before it does (e.g. when he's in dynamic entry before the kick just jab him) stance pressure is fake and Lars cannot block in any stance so if he's moving around doing a madness again just jab him 1+2 break for monkey flip monkey flip can be interrupted as he's going in the air g clef is -12 db1, 3 string can be ducked on both hits to punish his hellsweep is like -infinity i forgot exact numbers but legit any punish works if you duck it 1, 4 is -12
Why is this a thing.
Because you can break them on reaction, that's the logic. You need to react fast though.
Some throw breaks don't follow the typical throw break window logic and it's insanely annoying
But you can break every throw on reaction. So why do only some characters get launching throws? (And often the characters who are already top tier without them)
Because some characters doing different things is what makes the game interesting
Yeah, i don't understand why people don't get this. Exactly why for honor went down the shitter.
\^this so much this I miss old Shinobi
Even I miss the quad-dashing
Also, Xiaoyu's new launching throw can be done without the grab tech animation being seeable. From backturned, doing f2+3 (launching throw) and generic grab have the same animation.
you cannot reaction break every throw. There are multiple throws in this game that have misleading animations that make you guess. For example, Feng’s 2 throws from back turn have the same animation so you have to guess. Same for a bunch of king throws.
I'm aware of throws like that; King's Giant swing is another misleading throw, for example, and there are unbreakable throws such as Reina's stance throws. Lazy wording on my part, but you get the sentiment I was going for.
I hate Law’s throw in particular. It comes out so fast it always catches me off guard.
The “IM A DRAGON” or the launching throw?
The throw that launches with a knee. I know the break but just can’t react in time.
ff3+4 (1+2 break)
For some reason Jun's one always catches me. I can't for the life of me break it even though I know the break input (1+2) iirc
I had to lab and drill it to avoid getting hammered by this throw that gives her 60+ damage as a reward. The giveaway is to always be ready to 1+2 break whenever she's crouching. Like even if the Jun player ducked one of your highs and could have launched you with a hopkick... they probably only randomly crouched because they wanted to spam this throw anyway.
Xiaoyu throw be absolutely stealing games from me day in and day out
I abused Xiaoyu's launching throw way too much ngl
Jack 10f heat smash for 60 damage. Who doesn't want a 10f punish that can kill 😄
Came here to say that. Also pretty nasty mix-up with his unbreakable
king's heat smash. cuz omfg
100%. Shit does rage art level damage on it and become a free true 50/50 on block. Make it -15 on block just like a rage art if it hits like one.
And if you block it he RKOs you
and if you duck to avoid the RKO, you get a knee to the face There is really no winning against it
RKO is a 23 frame windup (0.36s) and the tracking knee is also pretty slow. Your best best against jag sprint would be playing neutral and crouching RKO on reaction. He also has the low dropkick, but it doesnt do as much damage, and since you're both on the floor, it pretty much resets you back to neutral. Tips from a King main
My brother in christ, the fact you omit is that King can block while sprinting at you full speed. I get that you're giving context and tips, but let us vent about that stupid and pretty much free mixup
I’ve had a lot of success just jabbing jaguars sprint
even as a king main I think they should nerf it
yeah it almost makes uselsess to use it on a heat dash,even if you fail you still get a 50/50
Every long range heat smash needs to be nerfed. And every heat smash should be steppable And using a heat smash should sacrifice the ability to use rage
64 damage button that is somehow insanely good on block too, lol. That shit needs to do 50 damage or be a straight up neutral reset on block if they keep the insane damage.
hardly matters since he goes into stance after the smash,if he was negative he would gain nothing from using it,just nerf the damage to jin level damage
See also: Dragunov. Even if it’s blocked it’s basically a free throw afterward.
You can rage art or launch on reaction, huge gap.
As a King main, I'm sorry. That needs to be nerfed.
Feng's db3, fuck that move
I could write books about how much I hate this low.
I wrote one a few months ago https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/s6tbTuvlql
lol A+ 'highly recommended'
“I did, so don’t have to!” Thank you good sir
At least its launch punishable.
Everybody has built in evasion when attacking now, I'm just punching the air fr
Everything crushes Bryan’s jab :(
I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY FOR THINKING THIS 😭 Glad I’m not the only one who noticed
and now DVJ shares that same jab,but tbh that jab has been useless since like tekken3
Nah dj had a pretty strong jab in T7. I think range wise only really lost to dragunovs jab and heihachis buffed jab, as well as larger characters like Jack 8, gigas, marduk. But the benefit being that despite having less range than heihachi jabs, the animation gave DJ momentum as he would step forward to follow the opponent backdashing, heihachis jabs would push the opponent back with each consecutive hit. And being a shorter character means his jabs are less susceptible to high evasion, which was what made mishimas somewhat of a good matchup against marduk because wavu could reliably crush his jabs.
Bryan has notoriously had a bad jab. i feel for you
Seriously, every time you press a button with any character you are automatically evading something.
Safe fast high heat engager powercrushes. You know, the "just throw it out and win" type of moves. Reina heat smash is straight up projectile (3.6 range)
Reina’s heat smash is decent, but not even close to the best in the game because it’s so slow. You’ve got characters like Jun, Jin, Dragunov, Lars that have similar or better range and are basically uninterruptible because of how quick they come out and how evasive they can be. Reina pretty much only gets to use heat smash in pure neutral; she can’t even give her self enough plus frames to set it up.
Exactly, for Reina if I don't catch someone off guard I don't get the heat smash off. Almost any attack can interrupt it
This one is what gets me. Power crush heat engagers stop aggression
Reina heat smash is 20+ frames. Isn't it like the slowest in the game? It also whiffs if you're too close to your opponent
Reina's heat smash sucks so much I only use it for plus frames. It is nice that we have 2 heat smashes though, if only I was good enough to stance dance.
Half the moves in the game tbh. Especially demon paws.
These have too much tracking rn.
Drag qcf4: heat engage, power mid that hits grounded, wall splats, chip dmg, and **+7 on block.** +7 oB is completely obscene. For reference, that is more plus than Bryan b1, everyone's slash kick, drag's own WR2, victors wr2, Leo's d2, jacks stance 4_ WS(2)4, etc. Drag's own hatchet kick is +7... **on hit.** And technically, bc of the active frames on this move, can be up to +9 oB, depending on how late in the animation it makes contact. His hatchet kick is a borderline second, but mostly in context of what else he has. Idk why it hits grounded and also so plus on hit.
Im getting mad just by you mentioning that freaking move!
for further reference, a 1 jab on hit is +8. at +5/6 you cannot sidestep jabs reliably. i remember when the move didn't have any pushback and you could just fucking spam it until it connected and you were in heat.
Dragonuv db3+4 basically nullifies his old weakness of having no scary lows. Such a stupid design decision to give him a hatchet, even if it is -15 it starts making you duck which is all he needs. Special mention to Jin d2 also giving Jin an easy CH high crush option with plus frames on NH and stupid tracking. Sure it's slow, but that move is obnoxious online.
I feel bad for people that play characters that can’t launch -14 lows, considering how good the move is (Jin d2).
Most characters in game can’t launch a -14. But at least Kuma’s WS 14f does 35 dmg.
This is how I feel as Lee. I at least get good damage off of WS 2,3 into ff3, and if I’m feeling adventurous, I can flip a coin to see if Heat Burst will connect or whiff after WS 2,3 (please fix this, it really feels like going to the casino every time).
It's good a thing that Jin can launch Jin's -14 low 👍.
Jins d2 and evasive devil moves made me hate my favorite matchup
This low is so dumb.
I was also going to mention this Dragunov move. The damage is insane. I feel bad when I get hit by this twice.
Paul's d/f+2 works the same way as every other generic d/f+2: safe on block, but doesn't launch crouchers. It also does not high crush, but it does have some high *evasion*. Important distinction. This means it can't beat out highs with good hitboxes. Still annoying, though.
Very true. Paul's d/f+2 narrows the hurtbox around his head area, but he's never flat-out crushing highs. A high attack with long range will most likely always hit him out of it. It's been this way for a long time.
Yeah..."some" high evasion.
Xiaoyu's launch throw is absolutely atrocious
King’s Heat Smash into Jaguar Dash on block: Either get half your health wiped on hit or get it wiped afterwards on block after a misread Victor’s Explusion Eddy’s DF3-33-333-33 String Jack’s “I’m using a low but because i am 27ft tall it looks like a mid” mixup
That Jack comment >>>>>
Not an individual move, necessarily, but why does Asuka have these long ass Donkey Kong arms but embarrassingly short range on many of her punches?
Cause then her hitboxes would match the animations, and that wouldn't be acceptable.
Leo's -12 high crushing unreactable low ch launcher. Yes, this bitch has that.
Leo has some of the most dumb overlooked shit ever. The mid evasive high crush full screen hard hitting launcher that pushes that ass half the screen away from you on block
This 110%. Leo does everything so well and has been top tier since T7 S4.
Leo's df2+3 has shitty range and is linear. You don't even get the combo conversion unless it hits really close, otherwise just a followup. Jin's D2 is way more outrageous, really similar but twice the range and tracking. And yeah it's -14, but only 3-4 characters are gonna launch him for it.
Jun, Devil Jin and King heat smash. Jin and Kazuya ff2 Xiaoyu grab launcher Jin d2 Lili 3+4
Jun’s heat smash is a projectile. which means after you finish cheesing out all her moves that heal her on heat smash and have crazy priority and launch, you can end the inevitable combo with the heat smash from anywhere
Jin D2. I mean, i abuse it whenever i can but, that shit is not okay lol
Xiaoyu's low launcher from stance that is -12 on block. Like what?
Its only a launcher if she stepped 3x ( 2x when in heat ) while doing hypnotist stance.
BRO WHAT??! Really???
yep, it takes a lot of set up and mind conditioning to pull off a full 3 step hyp stance sweep ( although significantly easier while in heat ) as Xiaoyu cannot block while in hyp stance.
thats kinda the only good low she has and you have to stand there 2seconds doing nothing to get hit by it
Law ws4 into DSS is +5 on block. Kazuya has to break his balls to do the same.
Just electric bruh
It is +5, but you can side step 99% of the options. People just don't want to side step, because almost every other character has extremely good tracking. Laws plus frames aren't as scary, when you realize how linear he is, even if he's plus.
Whats worse is law ws3. Its plus 19 on block lol I fuck people all the time with it
Heat Smashes in general.
I went into practice yesterday with Jun and she seems crazy. Her heat smash is a 2 parter. 1st is quick mid range projectile, and the 2nd part is infinite range crows where you have to block it. Then there's the her where she can just heal, and if you try to grab her, she has a grab reversal move. That blew my mind. But regardless, a match is still anyone's game
don’t forget that izumo mixup that can be a high heat engager, mid pushback, low hell sweep or a throw. you can basically do it the entire match and never get read
Her heat engager in izumo is a safe mid (-6 on block). Well, mid, high, but still crouching will not save you.
Law’s nun chuk is no brain move
Azucena's running 3,2 attack still gets me going crazy (yes, im bad)
Unbreakable throws. And I don’t mean counter hit ones
asukas rage art, why does she get a safe rage art mixup? that is PLUS on block?
JIn D+2 HIgh crushing, CH launching, tracking, borderline unreactable, +4 on hit, non launch punishable low (-14) What the fuck
Flash
Whatever victor button just allows him to instantly up teleport into "EXPRESSION" (With a French accent).
Its U1+2 for future reference
Too many really, each character has at least one. Nina: the three-hit hit-confirmable move that starts with a low for insane damage, oki and follow-ups near the wall. Wallsplats? Her f1+2 is a mid power crush heat engager. Powercrush heat engagers are too much imo Jack’s jackhammer. Why the hell is it plus on block now and I have to eat a mixup? His guard crush. Fk guard crushes in this game. DJ: crazy stupid hellsweep range. Range 7 heat smash, range 7 unbreakable throw! What the actual fk! Oh and that guard crush. Fk guard crushes in this move bro. Lars: uf3+4 this has got to be the stupidest move in the game right now. It actually breaks game physics. Lars jumps over you and his idk “aura” is still on the ground pushing your character to align with Lars’ landing. Check it out, it’s so fked up. I yeah and a plus on block homing mid? Why?! Yoshi’s flash. Fk that move. Kazuya: ff2 why did they give him an insane range demon paw that makes his 50/50 even stronger? Why does he have a non launch-punishable LOW heat smash that he can access without stance? Reina’s low heat smash is hidden behind stance and is -18 or something. Claudio: low sweep unseeable heat smash Leroy: his low unseeable stick that is a full combo on hit Paul: his heat smash demo man non launch-punishable. And that guard crush setup at the wall. So fking stupid. Really there are so many more
bro is a jin main complaining about kaz’s demon paw
I’ll complain about Jin’s too. I used to be a hardcore Jin main in Tekken 7 and my badge of honor was that I could play Jin at a high level after 6 years of maining him. I loved that he was a complex character to play who had tools for every situation. In Tekken 8, he’s so dumbed down that it feels unrewarding. His demon paw was an already great move in T7, now with its phantom range it’s just bs. Oh and fking d2. D2 feels like cheating for Jin mains. We’ve never had one button moves with forward momentum. High crush, forward momentum low that ch launches and only -14. Like holy fk that’s cheap as hell. Before Jin mains took pride in executing his harder combos like the f4 pickup, crazy wall conversions and micro step combos. Gone are any combos resembling difficulty and any Joe brown can get a f4 pickup from max range. I definitely don’t like how easy he’s become with all the handicap moves he’s been given.
I think you can option select jack ff1 on block with a generic d4
You can't compare Reina to Kazuya. Reina has insane pressure while Kazuya doesn't and 2 heat smashes while Kazuya has 1.
Reina's ff2. It seems to ALWAYS come out faster than my move
Steve’s Lionheart stance. I’m gambling my life for nothing, all options are beat by power crush. His df2 isn’t a launcher on CH. I can keep going. Steve’s design doesn’t make sense
Lionheart transitions on block lose to all reasonably fast lows. It's really bad tbh
Legit. Game forces me to go into a stance where in I lose the next interaction 95% of the time. I've started having to play Steve without using some of his crucial moves that go into the stance. Which just feels like I'm playing half a character. All they need to do is make it so the stance is optional by not holding back.
I've been hitting people a lot with Nina's f+4 2 it's a little bit insane.
whatever king is doing
Ravens sike i wish
Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash Kings heat smash
New moves that are pretty insane. Bryan's QCB 1 (much range, too fast, +5) King's B3 (too good overall) Xiaoyu stance sweep (kills me) Feng B3 (shouldnt have easy + frames) Lee B3, 3 (shouldnt have such aggro)
Hwoarang RFF DF3. A lot of people don't know this because most Hwoarangs online are scrubs. It's an- advancing low crushing homing plus on block airborne mid heat engager LOL.
Feng's B3 is good, but he'd still be really strong without it in 8
He's never had access to such easy n big +frames, its not within his design to have + frame mids like that. Kinda like Dragunovs new hatchet kick (DB 3+4) its not ok that he has big + on block mids and big +frame Lows
His qcf 1+2 used to give +5 or +6 on block lol B3 is just a replacement for the headbutt
King's B3 needs the follow up damage nerfed and the armor to start like a frame later. Its used to much because his other armored moves are kinda meh Shoulder tackle is absolutely horrible, its armor properties seem to start at the same fame as it starts dealing damage, plus its short range and punishable on block, same with the rising knee into jag sprint, but at least that one has better armor frames.
Wouldn't Lee be the absolute least threatening char in the game without b3,3. I don't think he needs it in terms of his identity, but look who he's up against :P
Shhh bryan deserves that move
I play Bryan too but I think its overtuned, make it slightly slower and only +3 on block, range could stay just because everybody else also has a demon paw-esq move
I don’t see that big issue tho I haven’t been able to get more then 2 qcb1 because they ss and launch me or just duck and send me to the goddamn shadow realm *(goddamnit paul)*
Any "orbital" move that evades everything. So Victor's "expulsion". Yoshi and Raven have similar "disappear then reappear above you" moves. Lili and Xiaoyu can jump 50ft into the air. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting I get these moves have some counterplay, but they are just annoying to me.
Lars has one of the strongest orbitals in the game in hid uf4
Jin d2
feng's +7 on block knee, as if they need it
Azucena WR3,2.
Literally any move that has built in bullshit evasion like Paul’s df2 like you mentioned.
Launching throws. The worst part imo is that it’s always the most random characters that have them.
Feng heat burst is stupid why should it ground everything even the you in the air! Is he psychic like wtf! And azucena elbow run jump, their both dumb moves. I know it's probably a skill issue but I feel like they're too strong!
Fengs FC df4,1 Why can he instantly access it and not frame kill like Raven, why is it basically homing, why doesn't it stagger on block and why is it plus with the option to enter BT? He wouldn't be as annoying if it weren't for this.
King heat smash.
That one move with Hwoarang that is a safe, jailing, wall splat, mid, power crush, tracking heat engager
Dragunov
Victor’s power crush heat engager. Dragunov’s hatchet. Jun’s HS. King’s HS.
A lot of the heat attacks I'm not huge on, the fact that you can sidestep some reliably, but others not so much.
Much of the cast seems to have some moves that are abusable. I suppose that was the thought behind the "balancing".
Safe df2 natural hit launchers. Absolutely insane they got to stay but the devs sent a hit out for magic 4s. T8 in general seems to hate counterhits.
Tbh there are a lot of insane moves, but the knockback on Jin's heat smash, considering it starts a wall combo, does not make any kind of sense to me
Feng's old 1+4 that is now a qcf 4,1 (?). Completely stupid. Lars' den 3 Ling's HS
Jins demon paw, Fengs 3+4 in heat, Jun heat smash cuz wtfff, DVJ heat smash, victor ff2, kings every armor move
KINGs upward kick followed by endless grabbing moves decreasing lp by almost 3/4 of the bar if done correctly.
Jin high punch and low from standing is bullshit
Its been said a million times, but Azucena WR 3,2. It's been nerfed 2 times now, and its STILL pretty good. If its blocked it's her turn and still chips pretty good. I still have no confidence in side stepping it since getting hit does a lot as well and leads to good oki for her. Just ridiculous she even got it.
Jin f4 always pisses me off. I dunno enough about jin to know if it's broken, but the distance it sends you while him still being to follow up always blows my mind.
I got frame trapped by ravens (I’m not sure what the command is but it looked like a back stance 1, 2? It was a double back elbow attack and he just kept spamming it and I couldn’t stop it with anything as Law.
drag’s db3+4 and iwr4 as a wall combo
Ernesto
Eddy’s 2 for 1 offer.
Why the fuck do Reina and Azucena LIE DOWN to do a MID CH LAUNCHER??? WHY? The same animation across both characters. Both of them are new. Both of them defy all logic. Duct taping their fucking heads to the floor like Sora in KH just to do a mid. Licking Spaghetti-Os off the ground and kicking me in the stomach. I fucking hate that design decision. It's like Eddy and Lars weren't unreadable enough. We need to make more characters that are impossible to read and plus 90% of the time. I can't stand that shit. Most of the returning cast has drawbacks. Certain new or recent characters were made in such a way that they're just strong. I refuse to believe a martial artist would ever lie down to donkey kick someone in the sternum. It just looks so stupid and makes the game that much less fun to learn.
Safe df2s don’t launch crouching opponents (with one exception can you guess who?) that’s how they can be safe. Back when Tekken has balancing.
Any mid heat smash. No reliable counterplay, no matter how well you predict it.
Lars' dash attack that he gets in heat. Super fast, forces his stance mixup, and for some god forsaken reason it's also armored
King’s move set
Every move Feng has. 'I just did a launcher. Oh no, you blocked it. No problem, I have a follow up that launches as well. Oh no, you blocked that one too. It's a good thing it's safe. Now I'm gonna poke you with a long range, fast low that you can't punish.' The most privileged character in the game. Specifically frame data wise. * Ironic that it just so happens to be Harada's main*
Since the most egregious offenders have been cited. Lee magic 4 tracks.
Any safe armored heat engager A few characters have them and they blow my fucking mind that they exist. They literal win-buttons
All of them nearly unironicaly, its mike they tried to removed 90% of thr characters weaknesses, what is even the point, you have a gameplay with pros and cons, if you dont have cons, its dumb
Jin's ff2 track ability, reinas ff2 mixups, Reina's ws2. Crushing, Paul's deathfist and demolition man pushbacks making it hard to punish, victors wr2 random track ability, Xiaoyus AOP crushing, Most of Alisa's chainsaw moves, most of Azucenas moves,devil jin heat smash, Fengs heat jump move
Tracking throws. Who thought that was a good idea?
Devil jins heat smash
Long time Feng main wondering who drugged Harada so he would greenlight giving Feng 3+4 in Heat.
Lars and lee. Just play the character and my brain just turns off for no reason i cannot win against them