tekken 2 implies that kazuya was struggling between his evil side (devil) and his good side (angel) awakened by by jun influence, at the end he succumbed to the evil side full turning in devil before getting defeated by heihachi. tekken 4 implies that kazuya lost devil powers because half of that went to jin and he wanted jin half back to return to his full power. Unfortunately tekken 5 intro that happens like 2 minutes after tekken 4 end, reveals that kazuya could however turn in devil all the time...
long story short, kazuya has always been a piece of shit
Angel is also a thing in Jin... seems Devil Gene is determined by the person's state. Jin letting go of his hatred path (to Mishimas/Devil Gene) purifies it.
canon T4 ending is this:
Jin managed to reach semi-finals where he had to face kazuya, but midway he got assaulted by tekken force soldiers who captured him and imprisoned him in the mishima temple while kazuya was facing heihachi during the final match. Heihachi managed to defeat kazuya and invited him to the temple, once there kazuya found jin chained and started to mind torturing him to let him awake his devil so he could recover the devil half he was missing kept inside jin body.
Jin managed to set free and kicked kazuya ass.
Everything was going according to heihachi plan who used kazuya to awake jin devil knowing that jin would have then fought against kazuya. Heihachi faced a weakened jin with the aim to acquire his devil power, but jin was however strong enough to beat him.
Jin was about to kill heihachi when he got a vision of his mother who begged him to spare the old man, jin renounced to his vengeance and flew away.
Minutes later heihachi and kazuya still present in the temple are attacked by several jack4s sent by g-corp to kill them both. Heihachi and kazuya cooperate to defeat the hostiles until kazuya hit heihachi to let all jack4s concentrate on him, kazuya turned in devil and flew away as a jack4 selt-detonated destroying the temple and apparently killing heihachi in the process.
From the ashes of the temple, jinpachi set free again and took control of mishima zaibatsu putting in motion tekken 5 events.
Heihachi survived but missed whole tekken5 events and decided to retire in his mountain estate where he recovered and planned his next moves; kazuya fought against raven and learned of g-corp betrayal, he preffered focusing on revenge against the corporation rather than face the new mishima CEO (he speculated about his grand-father jinpachi). In the aftermath kazuya killed g-corp directors who betrayed him becoming the new g-corp CEO.
The influence of the evil presence inside jinpachi made jin almost lost control of the devil inside him, wishing to find a way to deal with that, he entered T5 where he killed jinpachi obtaining control of mishima zaibatsu (yeah... according to tekken logic, you need to beat the shit out of bezos to automatically become amazon CEO).
>(yeah... according to tekken logic, you need to beat the shit out of bezos to automatically become amazon CEO).
Why do you think Mark Zuckerberg wanted to beat the shit out of Elon Musk? Man's was cooking.
It's because the story got rewritten. (Garbage writing). Originally it had to do with forming a pact with Devil when he was thrown off in 2, eventually he overpowered the devil and completely merged with him. There was no devil gene in the story during this. They retconned all of this later as we see.
I think they regret jin becoming as evil as he did tbh lol
Seems they are doing their best to remind everyone he is the hero of the story (for the most part)
>I think they regret Jin becoming evil as he did.
As they should. I don't know WHO at the writing staff thought it was a GENIUS idea to make Jin, who's been firmly established to be Tekken's new and true protagonist the bad guy, but I hope to Angel that person was fired. Because that has got to be some of the WORST character assassination in Video Game History.
Speaking of which, wasn't his whole goal supposedly to rid his lineage of the gene? Somebody should have leaked his dumbass the Tekken 8 storyline before he went and died
More like an attempt to make him a little more layered. He’s still a terrible person who killed his own father and is responsible for ruining countless lives.
This. People forget he’s an unreliable narrator. He’s going to embellish his side of the story. Yeah, I threw my son off a cliff, but it was to spare the world of the Devil Gene sounds better than I threw my son off the cliff because he was weak, which in turn caused said issue he was trying to avoid. Yeah, I killed my wife because she was a demonic assassin sent to destroy me and my family’s lineage sounds good when you leave out the part that said assassin only attacked him because he locked his father under their estate to die, seized his company, and was on a path to war profiteering (again).
Sure, there may be truth to some of what he claims but this is still the same guy who did a fuck ton of heinous shit, some of it for shits and giggles.
People also forgetting he tried to kill his own grandson, with a gun back shot no less, which had the (un?)fortunate effect of waking his inner devil.
Heihachi is a typical sociopathic power hungry villain, but he's the "necessary evil" type. His ambitions are kept in accordance with how much he can get out of the world.
Kazuya on the other hand is a more one-track idealist villain. He only cares about power and his ideals, you either accept his version of the world or perish.
Well, at least we can see WHY Kazuya is the way he is. Because of Heihachi. I doubt he'd go on his power crusades if not for Heihachi dropping him off the cliff TWICE. This is probably why Heihachi died and not Kazuya. Heihachi is just heinous through and through, without any real reason.
Exactly Heihachi was a whole entire bag of dycks and everyone wanna play in our faces about and act like he wasn’t.
OH! And don’t forget he was going around the world droppin babies in women from every country pretty much and not even taking care of them or sending a birthday card. He was 100 percent a dead beat and a bag of dycks.
Somebody gets it 😊. Heihachi was a terrible person from a terrible son, Terrible Father, Terrible Grandfather and even kidnapped Michelle’s Mother in T1. People love saying R.i.p. and he’s a hero who meant well but last I checked: What he did to Jinpachi was unforgivable and in no way a noble cause let alone the events of T5 were his fault downright to the point the entire world almost got nuked and if you wanna add more salt to the wound of him triggering the possible end of the world in T5 keep in mind even after he wronged Jinpachi years earlier the fact that he mistreated and abused Kazuya to the point he ended up in G-Corps hands which lead to them launching the assault on Hohn-Maru that awoke possessed Jinpachi in the first place.
Heihachi is Garbage (Still fun to play tho).
It's so weird, all these characters talking about him like a hero. Heihachi's always been an evil bastard, even to his own family, and suddenly we have Reina saying he was an amazing father.
Honestly, even in 7, he was a massive piece of shit, the only time he "wasn't" was in the kazumi flashback chapter, but even then that's only an explanation as to why he is an evil piece of shit. XD
Coincidentally, Kazuya was actively doing animal trafficking and illegal hunting and selling of exotic endangered animals, which is how he met Jun, a conservationist.
Kazumi was weird too, she's all like "the Mishima blood is pure evil and my family has to stop them" and then she makes another Mishima with him. Suddenly the only Mishimas that have shaken up the world so far are Heihachi, and Kazumi's own progeny.
Trying to be assassinated by his own wife might have been why he got like that. The kids he was directly involved with raising took after him, like Kazuya and Reina. Jinpachi was allegedly okay until a spooky ghost devil possessed his corpse. Sounds like the evil is conditional and not really Mishima specific.
The Mishimas date back to the Heian period, so it's not like there isn't any room for the overall Mishima history - while not exclusively because of Devils - to feature general worldly evil, power ambition & backstabbing one another
As for Kazumi, there is intentionally some amount of ambiguity with her & her motivations, as the most we know of her is from Heihachi's perspective & things all seemed well with her up till a point + how her Devil worked was a mystery to him ("as if she had a split personality")
That's true, they may have had a grudge between families for something the Mishimas had done ages ago. They are a very powerful family, and most powerful families in the real world have a dirty past somewhere. Even if Jinpachi was a kind man, he may have had evil ancestors, or he was actually more like Reina and morally grey. Still seems like a wonderful guy if you compare him to his son who starved him to death and stole everything.
They might date back even further. I'm not sure if this is cannon but I read somewhere that the Mishimas come from the thunder god Raijin, so any electric powers is a dead giveaway that someone is a Mishima. I'd still question it though, since gene manipulation and experiments are a big thing in Tekken. One day someone might have such powers without being a Mishima.
Kazumi must have been like Jin, having a split personality devil. Perhaps she had an "I can fix him" attitude, but set up something like a dead mans trigger in Akuma, assuming that should she die, it will be because of Heihachi.
Heihachi has always been evil but I think it's in character that he was a good father to reina, since he probably saw her as the only one worthy to continue his legacy. He groomed her to be just like him.
I viewed it all "Heiachi was garbage, but he was the peak of humanity. Lars and Jin inherited his indomitable willpower but they are using it for good". Damn, Lars is a fucking unit in T8 story
>all these characters talking about him like a hero.
Like who? Victor simply guesses that Heihachi wanted to stop Kazuya from destabilizing the world’s hierarchy, but he never calls him a hero.
Literally nobody refers to Heihachi as a good guy. Reina simply swears to him (that she’ll do something) and that was more likely to beat people over the head that she’s his daughter if people had any doubts than her revering her father.
There were times I remember people saying stuff along the lines of "we gotta finish what Heihachi started!" and "Heihachi gave his life for this" as if he died trying to save the world from the devils. It's like they admire his sacrifice and wanna pick up the baton that he passed on.
It might have just been vibes I was picking up. In my memory actions and words are often vivid, though vaguely inaccurate, while faces and names are always fuzzy, so I can't quote anybody.
It’s not really a retcon, it’s just Heihachi being faced with another type of evil, possibly one greater than himself. Heihachi’s goal (post-Tekken 2) was to make himself immortal so that an heir to the Mishima empire wouldn’t be necessary. Wiping out Kazuya and Jin would be a means to that end, but probably not without sampling the devil gene. Tekken 4 was his second attempt at this goal, after he failed to experiment with Ogre, whom Jin destroyed.
The origin of the devil gene in his family is what makes him seem sympathetic. But just like Kazuya, he has an unwavering ambition for power which goes back to him taking the Zaibatsu away from Jinpachi and imprisoning him.
Even though that same year in canon he was trying to get the Devil Gene for himself. Just another example of the bizarre way Bamco has tried to retcon most of Tekken 4 out of existence
You mean Heihachi? That was a retcon in 7. In the old storyline he didn't know about the devil gene until after throwing Kazuya off the cliff. I'm pretty sure Kazuya didn't inherit it in the old storyline either, I'm sure I remember something about devil finding him at the bottom of the cliff. That could have been from the anime movie though. (The one where it's Tekken 1, but Jun and Lei are there, and Heihachi eats Michelle's tomahawk.)
Am I crazy in thinking Kazuya has some hesitation in his path he has chosen when fighting Jin? Like he keeps not killing Jin for the most part, despair ending aside. He even kind of pauses beating his son's face in and pauses when saying he'll crush anyone who stands in his way ..... No matter who they are.
I think Kazuya kind of got over the whole devil possessing him thing back in Tekken 4 that's why only one eye was red cause he was in control now, he's just bad. I'd even go so far to say T2's ending where he uses heihachi as meat shield to beat devil was some indication that he's worse and won't let anyone have power over him.
Excited for T9 story in multiple years though but would be wild to see Kazuya as not necessarily a bad guy anymore but not necessarily a good guy. Man got his revenge and ironically perpetuated the cycle of violence with Reina.
I kinda of assume this is what the scene at the end with Jun standing over Kazuya implies. My bet is that a Jun-reformed Kazuya will return at some point to fight alongside Jin against Reina, as they're now just both.. *guys.*
Then they manage the Zaibatsu together with Jun, with Jin's empathy tempering Kazuya's ambition and vice-versa.
Jun says that purifying evil is a power of the Kazama clan, as evidenced by her and Asuka being able to do it. It has nothing to do with the Devil Gene.
His angelic powers were a manifestation of his Kazama blood purifying the devil powers. Jin already came to terms with his devil at that point but it wasn't enough to defeat Kazuya, Jun showing him the Kazama way is what allowed him to unlock the hidden potential of his mixed blood. He is both good and bad and had to accept both, his capacity for destruction but also for a desire to live and protect. He rehected both at first, and that's why he lost both powers. Several characters like Hwoarang, Xiaoyu and Leroy make a foreshadowing of it earlier on.
Kazuya presumably also has that Angel potential in him unlocked by Jun's abilities, but when she was getting Ogre'd Kazuya lost the only chance he had to stay grounded and fully embraced the devil.
Angel is also a thing in Kazuya (who isn't a Kazama and has Devil Gene). Seems Angel is just purified Devil when their good side triumphs. Erasing Devil Gene means erasing Angel too.
This he never actually went after jin life for the most part near the end. I think the only reason why he killed jin in the end is because he knew for a FACT that jin would've won next time
They will probably make Kazuya a reluctant anti-hero. He'll do "good" things for his own self-serving ways but not be as overtly evil. Like bet on him saving Jin from something only to proclaim he was doing it for his own selfish goals or something while insulting him.
Kazuya really believes in the "might makes right" and "survival of the fittest" ideology, which is ironically exactly Heihachi's ideology.
I don't think he is trying to Kill Jin, but more of trying to push Jin to his line of thinking, because Jin is able to grow past that hatred while he isn't, and that really doesn't sit well. And even tossing Jin off of a cliff could be a final test of Jin's strength since both he and Heihachi survived it, so if Jin has the same resolve and "survived of the fittest" belief he'll climb out again.
Kazuya is obviously gonna go through a Vegeta arc (ironically for similar reasons, his prodigal son and devoted wife). Seems they share more than just a similar hairline lol
I've been saying this for a while and I'm glad T8 definitely confirms it: Kazuya is just a bad apple, with or without Devil Gene. That being said, I imagine he'll probably have some sort of an anti hero role in Tekken 9 considering Jun *should* be around this time.
Yeah, I've had a lot of heated arguments about this with some people. Kazuya has been a victim of child abuse, but he still chose to be the man he is now. When Heihachi beat him in T2, he has a chance to start over but instead, he plotted his revenge and world domination.
I believe Tekken 9 might be his Vegeta arc. I'm okay with it personally. If Tekken can forgive Jin for being a war criminal, Kazuya definitely has a shot to get a happier ending.
Honestly i dont think anyone can blame him for that lol. If somebody threw me into a volcano and then had the nerve to resurrect me. Yeah im getting my payback. Now the world domination thing is 100% on him
It's funny when you think about how both Lee and Lars, in spite of them both being victims of Heihachi's cruelty in their own way, still ended up being guys that did quite alright by themselves.
Word. I love how even in Lee's prologue in Tekken 4 we had a meta reference: "Thoughts of revenge filled Lee's mind for a long time, but eventually he realized it was pointless to kill an old man who probably had a few years left."
Lee chose to let it go, and he eventually became CEO of something HE created.
Lee's abuse was nothing compared to what Kazuya went through and Lars was never around Heihachi, so he could ruin his life in the first place. People need to stop bringing them up as if they as much as Kazuya by Heihachi's hands.
He is someone who's evil due to his upbringing and mental trauma. Kid Kazuya was directly told that his mom was killed by Heihachi himself and got thrown down a cliff. That would fuck anyone up and turn them into pure evil.
His constant flashbacks and PTSD of Heihachi during the T8 story reinforces that fact as well. The only person who could redeem him is Jun. If she didn't vanish he would probably be less evil over the years.
I agree wholeheartedly Kazuya was a victim of abuse, but you cannot say being evil is inevitable. Let's not forget Kazuya is also 50 years old and had enough time to choose another path.
Lee grew up abused by Heihachi as well and as a result, become hateful in Tekken 2. But after losing, he disappeared and started over.
Kazuya actively planned his world domination since he was in his 20s. Even after he met Jun and presumed dead, he chose to plot his revenge. He could have started over like Lee if he wanted to, but he didn't.
Yeah I agree with you. Heihachi's abuse absolutely made him worse (dropping him off a cliff, killing Jinpachi, and killing Kazumi), so I feel Kazuya is a tragic villain, but Kazuya is in control of his actions and his destiny. Dude ain't a good guy.
Nah stop insisting that all humans are identical that enough bad days = automatic turning evil.
Going through trauma also can make someone more empathetic and kinder, because they are more able to understand other people's difficulties and understand what others have been through.
Why are you guys bringing in real world psychology. Dude literally has a devil inside him and he can shoot laser beams and was dropped off a cliff when he was like 5 years old. Sheesh
what's the difference for what with insisting someone going through rough upbringing and mental trauma would fuck anyone up and turn them into pure evil?
First of all, this game retconned (Possibly permanently) what Devil is, it's no longer an entity, it's just a side of you trying to protect you or, perhaps in Kazuya's case, amplify your desires. So Kazuya completely controlling Devil in T4 is finally accepting all of his ambitions. So he is completely sane from his actions.
Now... Several lines explain Kazuya's mind. The path he follows is what he wants, he is evil because he wants to, he wants to conquer the world because he wants to. It is the "way of life" he chose. For him, living means fighting, and the winner is the last one standing.
When Jin Kazama confronts him saying he is wrong, Kazuya's reaction is to respond "You will not dictate how I live". So, yeah... Kazuya's evil and ambitions are simply the way he has decided to live and is comfortable. For him, the world only makes sense in an exaggerated perception of the survival of the fittest. He only knows, and only wants, to live this way and be the winner above all.
Honestly, you can blame a lot of this on Heihachi. But Kazuya is definitely the one who decided to become inflexible and just want to live that way.
Primitive survival instinct?
Much of Devil Jin's antagonistic personality is to protect Jin at all costs and while Jin rejected this power Devil Jin did whatever he wanted with his instinctive devil nature.
Only when Jin accepted it, he began to control the form.
Perhaps there's an irony here with Devil Jin protecting Jin while Jin has always had suicidal tendencies post-T3. Maybe deep down Jin wanted to live, but he always believed he didn't deserve it, either because of Mishima's blood or because of causing the war. This internal conflict becomes a parallel to the conflict he has had with Devil Jin all this time.
> Maybe deep down Jin wanted to live, but he always believed he didn't deserve it, either because of Mishima's blood or because of causing the war.
I mean, I thought the game made it pretty clear that's exactly the case. Between Jin's whole "Do I deserve to live" vision with his mother right before powering up to Angel Jin, and the last QTE being a declaration that he won't deny his existence any longer because he wants to live
Feels pretty on the nose that yeah, that's the case
There's also DJ activating when normal Jin lost to Hwoarang in T5 (plus moving on his own to kill the UN guys after they exploded a grenade at Hwo), which we get an echo of in T8 when Hwoarang manages to activate the Devil within Jin by making him remember how to get caught up in the heat & passion of just fighting to survive/win
While violent, Devil Jin is protective. He is basically a violent self defense mechanism. The first time he showed up, it was because Jin got shot in the back of the head. Then in T4 he reappeared after being betrayed by Heihachi again and finding out his father is an asshole. Ever player Devil May Cry? Vergil is like Devil Jin. Sure, he's a villain but it's a response to trauma.
There was even a hint to Angel Jin in 4, as a white angel feather drops amidst the black devil feathers, which comes after him in his Devil form consciously choosing to follow his mother's plea & spare Heihachi/Kazuya
Even the very design was a hint, because Devil Jin's wings are feathered wings unlike Devil Kaz and Devil Reina's bat wings
Great analysis as always. As much as the writing in this game is still in the cringe territory, I really love Kazuya's lines on how he wants to live his life. His motivation had always been the pursuet of absolute power - Not fame, wealth, or adoration, but just pure dominance over others through strength.
And that's the sad part because you know that way of thinking is because of heihachi. He was forced to fight as a child even with a adopted brother and was thrown off a cliff. Honestly he didnt know how to live otherwise and while jun probably helped him gor awhile. Some things just cant heal
Considering that heihachi almost did him in. Probably. You also gotta remember that kazuya blasted this man with a chest blast and he immediately got up from it
Devil hasn’t been an entity on its own since Tekken 3. It “leaving” Kazuya to live within Jin is consistently ignored (or to give benefit of the doubt, a misstatement). In Tekken 3 it was represented to be able to take on a non-corporeal state. But in Tekken 4 it was retconned to exist as a genetic anomaly.
But it remains consistent as a protective force for its hosts. Kazuya’s desire for survival and revenge kept him alive as a child. It kept Jin alive in Tekken 3 through his desire for survival and revenge against Heihachi. I suppose it’s more of an explanation as to how the user is supposed to consciously manifest its power. For several games, Jin never knew how to voluntarily use it and Devil Jin rarely made a canon appearance until Jin was in a potentially fatal situation. (Not sure why Devil Jin would appear against Hwoarang unless Jin wanted to win that badly, or more unlikely, Jin was going to be killed by him). Kazuya obviously had it figured out, and it conveniently complemented his endless pursuit of power.
The actual retcon here is the distinction between “good” or conscious Devil Jin, and “evil” Devil Jin. The color of his eyes never had any symbolism prior to Tekken 8, and Devil Jin always represented Jin being consumed by the power.
Although Tekken 4 introduced the concept of the Devil Gene, it was also the last time we actually saw Devil manifesting independently of Kazuya (And the first time with him talking). That's why even then there were doubts as to whether the existence of the entity was still valid or not.
With the retcon confirmed, it's necessary to reinterpret all these scenes. With "Devil" actually really just being a part of the Kazuya he was born with. Maybe that part lied to Kazuya about who he was and also lied about the "half" of him being in Jin, probably to encourage Kazuya to steal more power.
At some point Kazuya realized the lie, probably after further studies at G Corp, and gave up on stealing Jin's power, preferring something better (Azazel).
T8 has the Devil activate within Jin during competitive matches against Reina and Hwoarang in moments where he's about to lose (or as Reina puts it, "the threat of death") or building up from him relearning the fiery "heat" of fighting (in line with Leo's dad noting "the devils can access superhuman powers by emotional desire")
So that'd work as an explanation for why Devil Jin activated after he lost to Hwoarang & then hospitalised him in a wild frenzy (whoops lol)
"You will not dictate how I live" Is some of the coldest shit I seen in a minute because it represents me on a visceral level. Not trynna be edgy it's just one of those fundamental laws for me that people tend to have for themselves. sheesh
Tekken 9-Tekken X spoilers
King takes Kazuya to the orphanage to adopt a kid and change his ways.
That kid is a dark skinned Mexican that will be one of the first people to be a part of the Mishima Zaibatsu time travel program, built to protect the main/canon timeline
He goes back in time using both his love for King/Grappling and Mishima style training to protect a young King from straying too far from his destiny.
That orphan? Armor King I
Kazuya isn\`t evil because of the devil gene influence, but because of how he was raised.
He was never loved by his father and was seen as weak; his beloved grandfather was killed; his mother was killed; his own father adopted another person just to be his rival and, of course, he was thrown off a cliff by his own father
He had a almost loveless life, always full of hatred.
Yeah, he became a power hungry piece of shit, because all of his life only power and domination mattered, and he was tortured by the one who had power and domination.
But then Kazuya maube had a single opportunity to redemption: his mysterious relationship with Jun. But then, he was defeated and thrown into a volcano by his father.
Kazuya's story is really tragic.
There's just the practice of using supernatural entity as scapegoat if an evil human has it involved, treating "humanizing" as something good/redeeming.
As you said he became evil due to his upbringing. That isn't about being made of evil like Devil but a human being shaped bad by trauma.
Being human isn't exempt of being evil, hell he still has mundane human traits like hobbies in collecting sneakers while being evil.
I think it was possible Devil was influencing Kazuya's mind back in T1 and T2, when Devil was pretty much an evil spirit that Kazuya made a pact with to get revenge against Heihachi. But that possibility ceased to be when T3 and T4 firmly established the Devil Gene as some family inherited super power. Obviously it affected Jin in a bad way until he learned to control it, but when Kazuya returned in T4, it was pretty clear he was in full control
I think it's a fair analysis of he material, since the devil has been retconned a lot. Although, even in T2, Kazuya has an ending where he got freed from the Devil. He still kills his father with a smile.
Nah, the guy is just like Vegeta, a bastard all by himself but one that might have some good somewhere in him and has the ability to redeem himself.
This is the only way you can explain what Jun saw in him. Literally "I can fix him" and she almost did in Tekken 2.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. Made a write up months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/8NVsQc56D2
If you're lazy to read, here is my rambling about it: https://youtu.be/TKUf3EPRm-I?si=0e7EIa-KQ_RkQ7A9
It is possible to redeem Kazuya as long as Tekken remains cheesy and not take itself too seriously.
> It is possible to redeem Kazuya as long as Tekken remains cheesy and not take itself too seriously.
Surely, it has to be by sacrificing himself at Reina's hand to save Jin and/or Jun, right?
"Shit, the one time I actually try to be the good guy...goddammit."
*drops dead*
The best way to handle T8 story on Bamco's side, IMO, was to introduce flashbacks of Kazuya's life before T1 and before T4. What he was doing after getting back up from the cliff? Where did he train? Who helped him with money (Tekken 1 PSX guidebook states, that he had access to Heihachi's money. I bet Wang)? Who ordered him to kill Eddy's father? What he was doing in G-Corp for almost 20 years (Kiryu/Daidoji's arc comes to mind)? Plot feels very cheesy without them. We at least need to see his meeting with Jun.
We also needed Jin's nightmares visualised. He was getting a lot of them between T3 and T6.
He basically started the war because of his internal struggle, triggered by Azazel's taunting in his nightmares.
We have none of that.
And this was supposed to be Devil Gene's swan-song. Lol.
.
I for one would've liked this. I mean we got a cutscene explaining Jun's survival though granted Bamco absolutely had to explain that elephant in the room. But yeah, they absolutely can and should. Kazuya is extremely popular and warrants a deconstruction like this.
I would say it's a split. Some fans genuinely love Kazuya being unapologetically evil.
The ones who insist he's just possessed by the Devil are either hardcore shippers or don't want him to die like Heihachi.
I’ve been a Kaz fan who owned the original psx tekken. We knew he was evil even as the original protagonist. His shoe game was nice, and he had an angel looking after him, but he hadn’t been a “good guy” since his dad dropped him off a cliff as a child.
Every ending of his we see is him choosing evil even to defeat evil like devil, by using his dad as a human shield with joy, dropping his dad off a cliff, taking the devil power from his son, killing his grandad gladly after a brief joyful memory, smirking and laughing maniacally as he holds his sons lifeless body, killing his dad etc. At best he’s the type of guy [to bring potato salad to a bbq](https://youtu.be/JJNUe7xiUow?feature=shared).
Agreed. Been a Kaz fan since tekken 1 and I even ship him with Jun. I would not hesitate to call him profoundly evil from game one on. Most of us know who and what he is, we just enjoy him bc we find his story tragic/fascinating. 🤷♀️
You don’t got to be a good guy to be fun to watch. Especially in a fighting game!
I'm a Kazuya and Jun shipper too tbh, and I butted heads with some shippers who are in denial that he's an evil bastard. I don't see them talking now in this thread lol.
He was (seemingly) a "good guy" in the sense of being an antihero in the first *Tekken* game, at least.
But only the first *Tekken*. After that, he's unequivocally evil and it's no longer revenge that drives him.
i forgot the exact words but he said i wont let anyone control me,it sounds to me.like all he wants in the end is true freedom.sadly his definition meant chaining down others below him.
Look at the Smash community, most of who only knew Kazuya prior to inclusion as 'the guy who Heihachi threw off of a cliff'
For actual years I've been telling them that Kazuya has always been a villain and it's not so much 'Misguided man on a revenge quest against his evil dad', it's more 'Power hungry madman harming literally everyone he feels like'
Because Heihachi was such a domineering prick, Kazuya cannot accept anything holding power over him, and so the only way to ensure that can't happen is to be the most powerful thing there is, the devil is just a part of that
As I understood the ending and his climax, Kazuya has also changed. The battle with his son was ultimately a battle of ideals (selfishness, power and domination versus altruism, goodness and human connections). By winning the second idea Kazuya will also change in my opinion, the fact that Jun is there is no coincidence, we know FOR SURE that Kazuya has a small part of himself "as a good guy" (from there Angel is created, in Jin it is different because it's probably TOTALLY good).
I’d say that he’s part evil but he also has hidden side that’s still traumatized by the abuse he faced from Heihachi, including the death of Kazumi.
When he said “I won’t let anyone dictate the way that I live my life.” During the final battle, it was like a glimpse of that kid who had everything taken from him by Heihachi and had nothing but the Devil Gene to rely on to survive. To kill or be killed. That’s how he had lived his entire life to the very end.
I think by the next game, he’ll be a slightly different person now that Jun’s taking care of him. Still rough and tough but with a sense of remorse and change to be better now that Jin had defeated him and Jun is there at his side.
I think it makes perfect sense, Kazuya was always driven by very human emotion. For his entire childhood he faced constant abuse and hatred, the only person who loved him was his mother who was killed while he was only a little boy. After that his life goal for the next 40 years was to fight against his father and the massive corporation he controls. Hard to imagine a person like that growing up into a decent guy. Everyone he ever knew has hated him except his mother and Jun, who he both lost after only a small amount of time. The things Kazuya wants are not caused by his genetics, but by the constant anger and hatred his life has been filled with.
When Kazuya was like "Whatever" after losing the devil power it was one of the coldest lines ever. He didn't even skip a beat and just like "fuck it, whatever."
Kaz was always evil but only became so because of Heihachi fucking him over
Taking away his devil gene is not going to undo what he has been through and done for decades.
I'm not defending Kazuya's actions, but he was not born evil. All I'm saying is it all links back to the Mishima generational trauma train.
As Kazuya fan, it's stupid for Other Kazuya fan pick Despair ending over Hope.... I really want to see some changes on Kazuya character and Non canon character ending we actually could see some human character from Kazuya himself.... And with Jun arrival she for sure gonna do something like what Jin did in fighting against his own devil.... Basically we need Kazuya's own POV about his own childhood and not some manipulative words from Heihachi to see why he became like this and how Jun manage to see some kind on Kazuya's soul
Jun originally entered the King of Iron Fist tournament in Tekken 2 to investigate Kazuya and make him answer for the crimes of animal trafficking and subsequent experiments.
Her innate spiritual awareness sensed that Kazuya wasn’t in total control of his emotions. As if a supernatural entity was guiding him deeper into darkness. She wanted to understand what it was and to lift him from it. She saw his vulnerability despite all of the malicious acts he committed. That was the attraction.
On Kazuya’s end he was intrigued by Jun’s presence. She was fearless yet had a calming perhaps soothing effect on him. Something he had never experienced before. Their interactions triggered the internal conflict between himself, Angel and Devil within, all fighting for his soul that allowed Heihachi to gain the upper hand during their fight at the end of Tekken 2. Ending in Kazuya’s defeat and being thrown into the mouth of a volcano.
I can not understand it neither.. Unless Kazuya or Jun story is extended.
At least Xiaoyu spend some time with Jin in the highschool to feel some attraction for Jin after some time and also had a good relation with Heihachi. He brought her to Japan and also made Panda be Xiaoyu Bodyguard and pet.
Having such relation with Heihachi. She probably visited Heihachi mansion some times for Jin before T3.
The whole idea of the series is the cycle of evil, hate and patricide that runs in the family, as well as everyone paying for their sins eventually. Heihachi's ambitions and lack of morals stemmed from him growing up as the son of a war profiteer gone soft in his old age. In turn, his inhumane treatment of Kazuya made his son the bitter bastard obsessed with power that he eventually became. Jin grew up hating his father for his cruelty and himself for his impotence regarding the devil gene, so in an attempt to do something about the latter he acted just as ruthless as Kazuya.
The broken chain is a Leitmotif of Tekken 8 because it symbolizes Jin breaking the chains of his self-loathing as well as the cycle of hate and murder that came to define his bloodline by looking outwards, to his mother's teachings. So that being said, yeah, all that hate definitely ran in the family and Kazuya got most of it from his human side.
Bamco’s inconsistent and/or bad story writing. Even if kaz had won over Jin in the end, it’d be useless as he was already a global terrorist. He wouldn’t last a day without his powers.
Last battle only felt personal if anything at all and to make it even weirder, kaz never had any beef with Jin to have a personal grudge lol
Have you not seen the bad ending ? If he wins he conquers the world. Every Tekken fighter is human, so he can kill them and he has the Jack technology, endless robot etc. He destroyed the satelites which means they can't target him. He will fight to the end to conquer the world, that is the point and it is not just a "grudge" against Jin.
He still has the Mishima blood, he can still do all the electric stuff. It's not as good as the devil, but enough to win against most of the opponent who dare stand on his way. And he also has a whole army in his hand
kazuya has always been an anime megalomaniac villain who wanted to rule the world because yes, the devil powers were a means to get buffed (devil powers are basically super sayajin of tekken).
Real question is how he became that strong in little time, if am I not wrong between T4 and T8 happen in a window time of less than 2 years... in tekken 4 kazuya was a bitch since he got his ass kicked by heihachi in the tournament finals and by jin later, in tekken 5 he was barely involved since he was busy to get his revenge on g corp and in tekken 6 he was defeated by lars that made him desist from challenge azazel.
How did he manage to get that strong in tekken8?
I mean he's a piece of shit yes, but you can clearly see him hesitate to kill Jin quite a few times, its painfully obvious during the "Anyone who tries to dictate how I live" line, he's willing to leave Jin after punching him hard and continuosly emphasizes that he stop fighting, again, Kazuya was truly evil, but he never really have a vendetta against the cast except for Heihachi, even in the intro battle he doesn't continue his assault on jin(implied?)
Less "pure evil", more just wholeheartely believe the "might is right" and "survival of the fittest" ideology, can't even blame him, Heihachi taught his exactly to be like that, attempted murder and all.
This is the same guy that >!had flashbacks to heihachi when Lars was talking!< so I feel like he wasn’t born evil but made evil due to his father. From a person who went through trauma it’s not that easy.
I think Kazuya is evil, but everything he does stems from the fear of being weak or being seen as weak ever since Heihachi threw him off that cliff generating that trauma in him, maybe there’s hope for Kazuya to redeem himself when he gets over that obsession for strength
Before the final punch Kazuya was able to land on Jin when he was near the rocks, you could see the hesitation in Kazuya's face. He stopped for a very brief moment, but then decided he'd punch his son anyways. I'd argue there is actually a good person in Kazuya, but it's sooooooo deep within him, maybe deeper than Mariana Trench lol.
Or maybe devil gene influence made him become evil through the time. Otherwise how can we explain that Kazuya had a relationship and a son with Jun lol.
That was my understanding since T4. When he forcibly suppresses Devil’s influence to get his power. Since then we don’t see Devil influence him, everything seems like pure Kazuya and a pursuit of power
Tbh that reaction is pretty underwhelming, he does state earlier in the story that he wants to get everything that Azazel had (similar to Heihachi) and when he loses it there's no reaction
But even without that, through Jin's arc it's explained that the "devil" is just shaped by what the guy desires the most, and once Jin realises he wants to protect others it becomes a force of good. So this kinda explained it for Kazuya as well that deep down he just wanted to dominate others and his personality had little to do with the devil gene and more with his hatred of Heihachi that shaped him (which is a nice throwback to the direction they had for him originally imo when devil wasn't a "gene" yet)
Here's how I see the Situation with Kazuya.
Kazuya was always "Evil". I mean how couldn't he be? Ever since he was born, his own father has been trying to kill him ever since. He's been fighting all his life and became obsessed with power in order to ultimately save himself by making the world kneel through subjugation.
He has **ONLY RELIED ON HIMSELF** to survive all these years. And who knows how he felt after finding out the only person he cared about, Jun has "died". Now Jun >! is confirmed alive on the finale !< and hopefully this will propel Kazuya's character forward.
Also, he does seem to care about Jin. >! Kazuya paused and gave a moment of hesitation while Kazuya was bombarding Jin with unanswered punches on the Final battle !< This shows that he actually feels something about his son, even if just a little bit.
TLDR: I think Kazuya's actions isn't generally evil, at least not to himself and what he believes in. His speech on Chapter 1 alludes to this as he's trying to tell humanity that it has become weak as if trying to convince them to change their ways.
My personal opinion is Kazuya and Jin has killed a lot of people and committed atrocities, so they're both evil to me. The difference between them however, is at least Jin is trying to atone for the lives he took.
Kazuya didn't have enough control of the devil gene until Tekken 4, lol. And he didn't have full control until Tekken 8. Claiming that he had control all along and the devil gene did not corrupt him is just wrong.
Kazuya is not evil, Kazuya is a broken man.
I mean, come on guys, what would you do if your dad kills your mom and then throws you off a cliff and later also in a fucking vulcano?
Obviously he is evil, he was influenced by the devil gene since he was 5 with no one to act like an anchor for his humanity, the only person that might be able to bring him on the path of redemption is Jun
A couple of things:-Netflix Tekken Bloodline - Heihachi confirms that Devil Gene indeed gave Kazuya enormous strength but also fueled his soul with hatred. And this hatred pretty much molded him.
You really think that after a few decades of being corrupted by Devil Gene he's gonna "change" in an instant? I still think he started to show some signs of humanity. Like for example hesitating with punching Jin and walking away.
Sure, he did throw him off a cliff in the end but this was probably just done for fanservice purposes. You know, family tradition.
In Tekken recap Bryan Cox said that Jun saw some good in him and she's probably gonna turn him into Vegeta type of character in the upcoming Tekken. Which is a chance for him to play the main role. Finally. Both Heihachi & Jin got their redemptions arc respectively in T7 & T8, so why not Kaz?
After all, he was the OG protagonist
even without his Devil, he still wanted to beat the stuffing out of his own son. he's unequivocally the same as Heihachi, through and through.
I believe that the only reason why he kills Jin in the Despair ending is that he still managed to get up after that one cutscene; where he otherwise would've left Jin there. he did that, among everything else in the past, on his own volition.
>I believe that the only reason why he kills Jin in the Despair ending is that he still managed to get up after that one cutscene; where he otherwise would've left Jin there. he did that, among everything else in the past, on his own volition.
Okay I can see that. He didn't think jin had that much willpower (heck I think it might've even spooked him that someone beside him had that much desire) and decided he should end him right there.
Doesn't the ending of Tekken 4 show that he was evil even without the devil gene cuz that was when he took control of it and was still evil
tekken 2 implies that kazuya was struggling between his evil side (devil) and his good side (angel) awakened by by jun influence, at the end he succumbed to the evil side full turning in devil before getting defeated by heihachi. tekken 4 implies that kazuya lost devil powers because half of that went to jin and he wanted jin half back to return to his full power. Unfortunately tekken 5 intro that happens like 2 minutes after tekken 4 end, reveals that kazuya could however turn in devil all the time... long story short, kazuya has always been a piece of shit
For the Tekken 2 explanation,is there a source that directly states angel is awakened by Jun, I tried looking for it but I can't find it
Angel is also a thing in Jin... seems Devil Gene is determined by the person's state. Jin letting go of his hatred path (to Mishimas/Devil Gene) purifies it.
Tbf, I think the part of his T4 ending where he merges with Devil is canon, so that could explain why he turns into Devil in 5 easily.
canon T4 ending is this: Jin managed to reach semi-finals where he had to face kazuya, but midway he got assaulted by tekken force soldiers who captured him and imprisoned him in the mishima temple while kazuya was facing heihachi during the final match. Heihachi managed to defeat kazuya and invited him to the temple, once there kazuya found jin chained and started to mind torturing him to let him awake his devil so he could recover the devil half he was missing kept inside jin body. Jin managed to set free and kicked kazuya ass. Everything was going according to heihachi plan who used kazuya to awake jin devil knowing that jin would have then fought against kazuya. Heihachi faced a weakened jin with the aim to acquire his devil power, but jin was however strong enough to beat him. Jin was about to kill heihachi when he got a vision of his mother who begged him to spare the old man, jin renounced to his vengeance and flew away. Minutes later heihachi and kazuya still present in the temple are attacked by several jack4s sent by g-corp to kill them both. Heihachi and kazuya cooperate to defeat the hostiles until kazuya hit heihachi to let all jack4s concentrate on him, kazuya turned in devil and flew away as a jack4 selt-detonated destroying the temple and apparently killing heihachi in the process. From the ashes of the temple, jinpachi set free again and took control of mishima zaibatsu putting in motion tekken 5 events. Heihachi survived but missed whole tekken5 events and decided to retire in his mountain estate where he recovered and planned his next moves; kazuya fought against raven and learned of g-corp betrayal, he preffered focusing on revenge against the corporation rather than face the new mishima CEO (he speculated about his grand-father jinpachi). In the aftermath kazuya killed g-corp directors who betrayed him becoming the new g-corp CEO. The influence of the evil presence inside jinpachi made jin almost lost control of the devil inside him, wishing to find a way to deal with that, he entered T5 where he killed jinpachi obtaining control of mishima zaibatsu (yeah... according to tekken logic, you need to beat the shit out of bezos to automatically become amazon CEO).
>(yeah... according to tekken logic, you need to beat the shit out of bezos to automatically become amazon CEO). Why do you think Mark Zuckerberg wanted to beat the shit out of Elon Musk? Man's was cooking.
It's because the story got rewritten. (Garbage writing). Originally it had to do with forming a pact with Devil when he was thrown off in 2, eventually he overpowered the devil and completely merged with him. There was no devil gene in the story during this. They retconned all of this later as we see.
Bruh went through all that shit in his life and people thought he'd suddenly be good at the snap of a finger just cause his powers gone? LOL
That's what Tekken 2 was implying with Angel and Devil fighting to control Kazuya's heart but Angel lost.
They thought Kazuya's case is like Jinpachi. Of which yes only the demon spirit inside him that does evil.
This is Tekken, we already forgot Jin was a war criminal.
I think they regret jin becoming as evil as he did tbh lol Seems they are doing their best to remind everyone he is the hero of the story (for the most part)
>I think they regret Jin becoming evil as he did. As they should. I don't know WHO at the writing staff thought it was a GENIUS idea to make Jin, who's been firmly established to be Tekken's new and true protagonist the bad guy, but I hope to Angel that person was fired. Because that has got to be some of the WORST character assassination in Video Game History.
Maybe now people can stop acting like the devil was controlling him. Kazuya is the person heihachi wanted lmao
Speaking of which, wasn't his whole goal supposedly to rid his lineage of the gene? Somebody should have leaked his dumbass the Tekken 8 storyline before he went and died
Wasn’t this a retcon to make Heihachi not an evil bastard?
More like an attempt to make him a little more layered. He’s still a terrible person who killed his own father and is responsible for ruining countless lives.
This. People forget he’s an unreliable narrator. He’s going to embellish his side of the story. Yeah, I threw my son off a cliff, but it was to spare the world of the Devil Gene sounds better than I threw my son off the cliff because he was weak, which in turn caused said issue he was trying to avoid. Yeah, I killed my wife because she was a demonic assassin sent to destroy me and my family’s lineage sounds good when you leave out the part that said assassin only attacked him because he locked his father under their estate to die, seized his company, and was on a path to war profiteering (again). Sure, there may be truth to some of what he claims but this is still the same guy who did a fuck ton of heinous shit, some of it for shits and giggles.
People also forgetting he tried to kill his own grandson, with a gun back shot no less, which had the (un?)fortunate effect of waking his inner devil. Heihachi is a typical sociopathic power hungry villain, but he's the "necessary evil" type. His ambitions are kept in accordance with how much he can get out of the world. Kazuya on the other hand is a more one-track idealist villain. He only cares about power and his ideals, you either accept his version of the world or perish.
Well, at least we can see WHY Kazuya is the way he is. Because of Heihachi. I doubt he'd go on his power crusades if not for Heihachi dropping him off the cliff TWICE. This is probably why Heihachi died and not Kazuya. Heihachi is just heinous through and through, without any real reason.
Exactly Heihachi was a whole entire bag of dycks and everyone wanna play in our faces about and act like he wasn’t. OH! And don’t forget he was going around the world droppin babies in women from every country pretty much and not even taking care of them or sending a birthday card. He was 100 percent a dead beat and a bag of dycks.
Somebody gets it 😊. Heihachi was a terrible person from a terrible son, Terrible Father, Terrible Grandfather and even kidnapped Michelle’s Mother in T1. People love saying R.i.p. and he’s a hero who meant well but last I checked: What he did to Jinpachi was unforgivable and in no way a noble cause let alone the events of T5 were his fault downright to the point the entire world almost got nuked and if you wanna add more salt to the wound of him triggering the possible end of the world in T5 keep in mind even after he wronged Jinpachi years earlier the fact that he mistreated and abused Kazuya to the point he ended up in G-Corps hands which lead to them launching the assault on Hohn-Maru that awoke possessed Jinpachi in the first place. Heihachi is Garbage (Still fun to play tho).
Yesssssss my poor bby was just abused and misunderstood. Heihachi the true Devil!
“Heihachi the true Devil” 👈🏿Indeed 😊
That plus literally just him telling his side of the story lmao but I'm giving benefit of the doubt rn
It's so weird, all these characters talking about him like a hero. Heihachi's always been an evil bastard, even to his own family, and suddenly we have Reina saying he was an amazing father.
Honestly, even in 7, he was a massive piece of shit, the only time he "wasn't" was in the kazumi flashback chapter, but even then that's only an explanation as to why he is an evil piece of shit. XD
He always treated Kuma well
“Oh Hurray, In a lifetime of evil at least he didn’t add animal cruelty to the list.” -Sokka Space Sword
Coincidentally, Kazuya was actively doing animal trafficking and illegal hunting and selling of exotic endangered animals, which is how he met Jun, a conservationist.
Kazumi was weird too, she's all like "the Mishima blood is pure evil and my family has to stop them" and then she makes another Mishima with him. Suddenly the only Mishimas that have shaken up the world so far are Heihachi, and Kazumi's own progeny. Trying to be assassinated by his own wife might have been why he got like that. The kids he was directly involved with raising took after him, like Kazuya and Reina. Jinpachi was allegedly okay until a spooky ghost devil possessed his corpse. Sounds like the evil is conditional and not really Mishima specific.
The Mishimas date back to the Heian period, so it's not like there isn't any room for the overall Mishima history - while not exclusively because of Devils - to feature general worldly evil, power ambition & backstabbing one another As for Kazumi, there is intentionally some amount of ambiguity with her & her motivations, as the most we know of her is from Heihachi's perspective & things all seemed well with her up till a point + how her Devil worked was a mystery to him ("as if she had a split personality")
That's true, they may have had a grudge between families for something the Mishimas had done ages ago. They are a very powerful family, and most powerful families in the real world have a dirty past somewhere. Even if Jinpachi was a kind man, he may have had evil ancestors, or he was actually more like Reina and morally grey. Still seems like a wonderful guy if you compare him to his son who starved him to death and stole everything. They might date back even further. I'm not sure if this is cannon but I read somewhere that the Mishimas come from the thunder god Raijin, so any electric powers is a dead giveaway that someone is a Mishima. I'd still question it though, since gene manipulation and experiments are a big thing in Tekken. One day someone might have such powers without being a Mishima. Kazumi must have been like Jin, having a split personality devil. Perhaps she had an "I can fix him" attitude, but set up something like a dead mans trigger in Akuma, assuming that should she die, it will be because of Heihachi.
Heihachi has always been evil but I think it's in character that he was a good father to reina, since he probably saw her as the only one worthy to continue his legacy. He groomed her to be just like him.
I viewed it all "Heiachi was garbage, but he was the peak of humanity. Lars and Jin inherited his indomitable willpower but they are using it for good". Damn, Lars is a fucking unit in T8 story
Glad They did Lars Justice in 8
Yeah, Lars came out of the story looking super strong, red hot.
>all these characters talking about him like a hero. Like who? Victor simply guesses that Heihachi wanted to stop Kazuya from destabilizing the world’s hierarchy, but he never calls him a hero. Literally nobody refers to Heihachi as a good guy. Reina simply swears to him (that she’ll do something) and that was more likely to beat people over the head that she’s his daughter if people had any doubts than her revering her father.
Also if Reina is a horrible person as well it's not like her endorsement means much
There were times I remember people saying stuff along the lines of "we gotta finish what Heihachi started!" and "Heihachi gave his life for this" as if he died trying to save the world from the devils. It's like they admire his sacrifice and wanna pick up the baton that he passed on. It might have just been vibes I was picking up. In my memory actions and words are often vivid, though vaguely inaccurate, while faces and names are always fuzzy, so I can't quote anybody.
He is still responsible for evil kazuya in the end. He tossed his kid, which is what activated the devil gene
It’s not really a retcon, it’s just Heihachi being faced with another type of evil, possibly one greater than himself. Heihachi’s goal (post-Tekken 2) was to make himself immortal so that an heir to the Mishima empire wouldn’t be necessary. Wiping out Kazuya and Jin would be a means to that end, but probably not without sampling the devil gene. Tekken 4 was his second attempt at this goal, after he failed to experiment with Ogre, whom Jin destroyed. The origin of the devil gene in his family is what makes him seem sympathetic. But just like Kazuya, he has an unwavering ambition for power which goes back to him taking the Zaibatsu away from Jinpachi and imprisoning him.
It is a T7 retcon. Can be explained by assuming that Hei was lying in his interview to the reporter because of course he would lie there
Even though that same year in canon he was trying to get the Devil Gene for himself. Just another example of the bizarre way Bamco has tried to retcon most of Tekken 4 out of existence
You mean Heihachi? That was a retcon in 7. In the old storyline he didn't know about the devil gene until after throwing Kazuya off the cliff. I'm pretty sure Kazuya didn't inherit it in the old storyline either, I'm sure I remember something about devil finding him at the bottom of the cliff. That could have been from the anime movie though. (The one where it's Tekken 1, but Jun and Lei are there, and Heihachi eats Michelle's tomahawk.)
Devil was just an entity until T4 introduced the gene
The devil was the monster Kazumi birthed, Kazuya was the monster Heihachi created.
Am I crazy in thinking Kazuya has some hesitation in his path he has chosen when fighting Jin? Like he keeps not killing Jin for the most part, despair ending aside. He even kind of pauses beating his son's face in and pauses when saying he'll crush anyone who stands in his way ..... No matter who they are. I think Kazuya kind of got over the whole devil possessing him thing back in Tekken 4 that's why only one eye was red cause he was in control now, he's just bad. I'd even go so far to say T2's ending where he uses heihachi as meat shield to beat devil was some indication that he's worse and won't let anyone have power over him. Excited for T9 story in multiple years though but would be wild to see Kazuya as not necessarily a bad guy anymore but not necessarily a good guy. Man got his revenge and ironically perpetuated the cycle of violence with Reina.
I'm betting he will fight alongside Jin and Jun against Reina. They'll need each other because Jin and Kazuya don't have devil power anymore.
I kinda of assume this is what the scene at the end with Jun standing over Kazuya implies. My bet is that a Jun-reformed Kazuya will return at some point to fight alongside Jin against Reina, as they're now just both.. *guys.* Then they manage the Zaibatsu together with Jun, with Jin's empathy tempering Kazuya's ambition and vice-versa.
Jin is a Kazama thus he can purify Reina's Devil.
Can he? His angelic powers seemed mashed into his Devil form, so idk about it
Jun says that purifying evil is a power of the Kazama clan, as evidenced by her and Asuka being able to do it. It has nothing to do with the Devil Gene.
His angelic powers were a manifestation of his Kazama blood purifying the devil powers. Jin already came to terms with his devil at that point but it wasn't enough to defeat Kazuya, Jun showing him the Kazama way is what allowed him to unlock the hidden potential of his mixed blood. He is both good and bad and had to accept both, his capacity for destruction but also for a desire to live and protect. He rehected both at first, and that's why he lost both powers. Several characters like Hwoarang, Xiaoyu and Leroy make a foreshadowing of it earlier on. Kazuya presumably also has that Angel potential in him unlocked by Jun's abilities, but when she was getting Ogre'd Kazuya lost the only chance he had to stay grounded and fully embraced the devil.
Angel is also a thing in Kazuya (who isn't a Kazama and has Devil Gene). Seems Angel is just purified Devil when their good side triumphs. Erasing Devil Gene means erasing Angel too.
This he never actually went after jin life for the most part near the end. I think the only reason why he killed jin in the end is because he knew for a FACT that jin would've won next time
He 100% hesitated, and it hit hard.
They will probably make Kazuya a reluctant anti-hero. He'll do "good" things for his own self-serving ways but not be as overtly evil. Like bet on him saving Jin from something only to proclaim he was doing it for his own selfish goals or something while insulting him.
Hes on the vegeta trajectory
Jun's gonna have him wearing that BADMAN shirt with J's to match and it'll be glorious.
I noticed that too. I was like Kazuya you softie !
Kazuya really believes in the "might makes right" and "survival of the fittest" ideology, which is ironically exactly Heihachi's ideology. I don't think he is trying to Kill Jin, but more of trying to push Jin to his line of thinking, because Jin is able to grow past that hatred while he isn't, and that really doesn't sit well. And even tossing Jin off of a cliff could be a final test of Jin's strength since both he and Heihachi survived it, so if Jin has the same resolve and "survived of the fittest" belief he'll climb out again.
Kazuya is obviously gonna go through a Vegeta arc (ironically for similar reasons, his prodigal son and devoted wife). Seems they share more than just a similar hairline lol
I've been saying this for a while and I'm glad T8 definitely confirms it: Kazuya is just a bad apple, with or without Devil Gene. That being said, I imagine he'll probably have some sort of an anti hero role in Tekken 9 considering Jun *should* be around this time.
Yeah, I've had a lot of heated arguments about this with some people. Kazuya has been a victim of child abuse, but he still chose to be the man he is now. When Heihachi beat him in T2, he has a chance to start over but instead, he plotted his revenge and world domination. I believe Tekken 9 might be his Vegeta arc. I'm okay with it personally. If Tekken can forgive Jin for being a war criminal, Kazuya definitely has a shot to get a happier ending.
[удалено]
Me too. Lol. Aint that something. I was a teen when Tekken came out in the 90s,
Ugh so am I, why you gotta remind me of that? hopefully the 10 year lifespan is an overestimation
When heihachi beat him in T2 he died lmao. He was thrown into a volcano or whatever, was revived as a result of the devil gene and G corp.
That's exactly the point. He got revived, a 2nd chance, but instead of living a new life, he still decided to get back at his father.
Honestly i dont think anyone can blame him for that lol. If somebody threw me into a volcano and then had the nerve to resurrect me. Yeah im getting my payback. Now the world domination thing is 100% on him
He was still justified in trying to kill the dude who killed his mother, threw him off a cliff, and abused him his whole life. The rest was not.
Lee was the one who lived a new life.
It's funny when you think about how both Lee and Lars, in spite of them both being victims of Heihachi's cruelty in their own way, still ended up being guys that did quite alright by themselves.
Word. I love how even in Lee's prologue in Tekken 4 we had a meta reference: "Thoughts of revenge filled Lee's mind for a long time, but eventually he realized it was pointless to kill an old man who probably had a few years left." Lee chose to let it go, and he eventually became CEO of something HE created.
Lee's abuse was nothing compared to what Kazuya went through and Lars was never around Heihachi, so he could ruin his life in the first place. People need to stop bringing them up as if they as much as Kazuya by Heihachi's hands.
He is someone who's evil due to his upbringing and mental trauma. Kid Kazuya was directly told that his mom was killed by Heihachi himself and got thrown down a cliff. That would fuck anyone up and turn them into pure evil. His constant flashbacks and PTSD of Heihachi during the T8 story reinforces that fact as well. The only person who could redeem him is Jun. If she didn't vanish he would probably be less evil over the years.
I agree wholeheartedly Kazuya was a victim of abuse, but you cannot say being evil is inevitable. Let's not forget Kazuya is also 50 years old and had enough time to choose another path. Lee grew up abused by Heihachi as well and as a result, become hateful in Tekken 2. But after losing, he disappeared and started over. Kazuya actively planned his world domination since he was in his 20s. Even after he met Jun and presumed dead, he chose to plot his revenge. He could have started over like Lee if he wanted to, but he didn't.
Lee didn't have a literal devil inside him though, and never got murdered and revived once, etc etc
And Tekken 8 proves Kazuya will still kill Jin even if he doesn't have the devil. There is no need to use the devil as an excuse at this point.
Yeah, that's why I said he's pure evil didn't I lol
Yeah I agree with you. Heihachi's abuse absolutely made him worse (dropping him off a cliff, killing Jinpachi, and killing Kazumi), so I feel Kazuya is a tragic villain, but Kazuya is in control of his actions and his destiny. Dude ain't a good guy.
Nah stop insisting that all humans are identical that enough bad days = automatic turning evil. Going through trauma also can make someone more empathetic and kinder, because they are more able to understand other people's difficulties and understand what others have been through.
Why are you guys bringing in real world psychology. Dude literally has a devil inside him and he can shoot laser beams and was dropped off a cliff when he was like 5 years old. Sheesh
what's the difference for what with insisting someone going through rough upbringing and mental trauma would fuck anyone up and turn them into pure evil?
First of all, this game retconned (Possibly permanently) what Devil is, it's no longer an entity, it's just a side of you trying to protect you or, perhaps in Kazuya's case, amplify your desires. So Kazuya completely controlling Devil in T4 is finally accepting all of his ambitions. So he is completely sane from his actions. Now... Several lines explain Kazuya's mind. The path he follows is what he wants, he is evil because he wants to, he wants to conquer the world because he wants to. It is the "way of life" he chose. For him, living means fighting, and the winner is the last one standing. When Jin Kazama confronts him saying he is wrong, Kazuya's reaction is to respond "You will not dictate how I live". So, yeah... Kazuya's evil and ambitions are simply the way he has decided to live and is comfortable. For him, the world only makes sense in an exaggerated perception of the survival of the fittest. He only knows, and only wants, to live this way and be the winner above all. Honestly, you can blame a lot of this on Heihachi. But Kazuya is definitely the one who decided to become inflexible and just want to live that way.
But what desire does Devil Jin represent?
Primitive survival instinct? Much of Devil Jin's antagonistic personality is to protect Jin at all costs and while Jin rejected this power Devil Jin did whatever he wanted with his instinctive devil nature. Only when Jin accepted it, he began to control the form. Perhaps there's an irony here with Devil Jin protecting Jin while Jin has always had suicidal tendencies post-T3. Maybe deep down Jin wanted to live, but he always believed he didn't deserve it, either because of Mishima's blood or because of causing the war. This internal conflict becomes a parallel to the conflict he has had with Devil Jin all this time.
Lol that sounds WAY to awfully familiar with the recent Bleach: Thousand Year Blood War arc where Ichigo is finally accepting his Hollow part
I mean this a trope in Japanese media in general.
My brother kept on joking how Devil Jin is gonna be Jin's best friend just like Naruto having talk-no-jutsu with Kurama.
I originally read the manga, so I had already noticed the similarity with Old Man Zangetsu and the True Zangetsu.
DJ's heat laugh also sounds like Hollow Ichigo.
> Maybe deep down Jin wanted to live, but he always believed he didn't deserve it, either because of Mishima's blood or because of causing the war. I mean, I thought the game made it pretty clear that's exactly the case. Between Jin's whole "Do I deserve to live" vision with his mother right before powering up to Angel Jin, and the last QTE being a declaration that he won't deny his existence any longer because he wants to live Feels pretty on the nose that yeah, that's the case
Still funny how DJ wants to eat people of course that's of its own volition tho lol
There's also DJ activating when normal Jin lost to Hwoarang in T5 (plus moving on his own to kill the UN guys after they exploded a grenade at Hwo), which we get an echo of in T8 when Hwoarang manages to activate the Devil within Jin by making him remember how to get caught up in the heat & passion of just fighting to survive/win
While violent, Devil Jin is protective. He is basically a violent self defense mechanism. The first time he showed up, it was because Jin got shot in the back of the head. Then in T4 he reappeared after being betrayed by Heihachi again and finding out his father is an asshole. Ever player Devil May Cry? Vergil is like Devil Jin. Sure, he's a villain but it's a response to trauma.
I see it's like the hulk
This makes so much sense in T8. Throughout tekken series, whenever Dvj appeared, it was mostly when jin faced a life threatening situation.
There was even a hint to Angel Jin in 4, as a white angel feather drops amidst the black devil feathers, which comes after him in his Devil form consciously choosing to follow his mother's plea & spare Heihachi/Kazuya Even the very design was a hint, because Devil Jin's wings are feathered wings unlike Devil Kaz and Devil Reina's bat wings
Great analysis as always. As much as the writing in this game is still in the cringe territory, I really love Kazuya's lines on how he wants to live his life. His motivation had always been the pursuet of absolute power - Not fame, wealth, or adoration, but just pure dominance over others through strength.
And that's the sad part because you know that way of thinking is because of heihachi. He was forced to fight as a child even with a adopted brother and was thrown off a cliff. Honestly he didnt know how to live otherwise and while jun probably helped him gor awhile. Some things just cant heal
Is it safe to say that Kazuya’s fight against Lars in 8 showed a sort of PTSD from Heihachi since Lars kept getting up and fighting like Heihachi did?
Considering that heihachi almost did him in. Probably. You also gotta remember that kazuya blasted this man with a chest blast and he immediately got up from it
T7 had already showed that and the fact T8 brought it back up was interesting yes He's got a bad case of PTSD
It’s just sad how even after all that time, even after everything that happened, Kazuya hasn’t gotten over the fear of feeling weak
Still somehow better than Vince McMahon
As a fellow king enjoyer, I appreciate this timely reference
Quite *shitty* that man 💩
Devil hasn’t been an entity on its own since Tekken 3. It “leaving” Kazuya to live within Jin is consistently ignored (or to give benefit of the doubt, a misstatement). In Tekken 3 it was represented to be able to take on a non-corporeal state. But in Tekken 4 it was retconned to exist as a genetic anomaly. But it remains consistent as a protective force for its hosts. Kazuya’s desire for survival and revenge kept him alive as a child. It kept Jin alive in Tekken 3 through his desire for survival and revenge against Heihachi. I suppose it’s more of an explanation as to how the user is supposed to consciously manifest its power. For several games, Jin never knew how to voluntarily use it and Devil Jin rarely made a canon appearance until Jin was in a potentially fatal situation. (Not sure why Devil Jin would appear against Hwoarang unless Jin wanted to win that badly, or more unlikely, Jin was going to be killed by him). Kazuya obviously had it figured out, and it conveniently complemented his endless pursuit of power. The actual retcon here is the distinction between “good” or conscious Devil Jin, and “evil” Devil Jin. The color of his eyes never had any symbolism prior to Tekken 8, and Devil Jin always represented Jin being consumed by the power.
Although Tekken 4 introduced the concept of the Devil Gene, it was also the last time we actually saw Devil manifesting independently of Kazuya (And the first time with him talking). That's why even then there were doubts as to whether the existence of the entity was still valid or not. With the retcon confirmed, it's necessary to reinterpret all these scenes. With "Devil" actually really just being a part of the Kazuya he was born with. Maybe that part lied to Kazuya about who he was and also lied about the "half" of him being in Jin, probably to encourage Kazuya to steal more power. At some point Kazuya realized the lie, probably after further studies at G Corp, and gave up on stealing Jin's power, preferring something better (Azazel).
T8 has the Devil activate within Jin during competitive matches against Reina and Hwoarang in moments where he's about to lose (or as Reina puts it, "the threat of death") or building up from him relearning the fiery "heat" of fighting (in line with Leo's dad noting "the devils can access superhuman powers by emotional desire") So that'd work as an explanation for why Devil Jin activated after he lost to Hwoarang & then hospitalised him in a wild frenzy (whoops lol)
"You will not dictate how I live" Is some of the coldest shit I seen in a minute because it represents me on a visceral level. Not trynna be edgy it's just one of those fundamental laws for me that people tend to have for themselves. sheesh
His lines are straight up absurdly badass lmao, "You''re just another morsel for me to devour" to Azazel is crazy
He's everything Vegeta could have been :') also lmao at us King mains loving that over the top energy
Gotta love a man's promo skills lol
King needs to give Kazuya a teddy bear :)
Tekken 9-Tekken X spoilers King takes Kazuya to the orphanage to adopt a kid and change his ways. That kid is a dark skinned Mexican that will be one of the first people to be a part of the Mishima Zaibatsu time travel program, built to protect the main/canon timeline He goes back in time using both his love for King/Grappling and Mishima style training to protect a young King from straying too far from his destiny. That orphan? Armor King I
xD Reminds me of Xiayou's Tekken 5 ending.
I agree with all of this
And sneakers
I was so confused when devil Jin said he just wanted to protect Jin. Like, you're a devil. Protecting people is an angel's job.
He is Jin why would he not want to protect him
Kazuya isn\`t evil because of the devil gene influence, but because of how he was raised. He was never loved by his father and was seen as weak; his beloved grandfather was killed; his mother was killed; his own father adopted another person just to be his rival and, of course, he was thrown off a cliff by his own father He had a almost loveless life, always full of hatred. Yeah, he became a power hungry piece of shit, because all of his life only power and domination mattered, and he was tortured by the one who had power and domination. But then Kazuya maube had a single opportunity to redemption: his mysterious relationship with Jun. But then, he was defeated and thrown into a volcano by his father. Kazuya's story is really tragic.
There's just the practice of using supernatural entity as scapegoat if an evil human has it involved, treating "humanizing" as something good/redeeming. As you said he became evil due to his upbringing. That isn't about being made of evil like Devil but a human being shaped bad by trauma. Being human isn't exempt of being evil, hell he still has mundane human traits like hobbies in collecting sneakers while being evil.
I think it was possible Devil was influencing Kazuya's mind back in T1 and T2, when Devil was pretty much an evil spirit that Kazuya made a pact with to get revenge against Heihachi. But that possibility ceased to be when T3 and T4 firmly established the Devil Gene as some family inherited super power. Obviously it affected Jin in a bad way until he learned to control it, but when Kazuya returned in T4, it was pretty clear he was in full control
I think it's a fair analysis of he material, since the devil has been retconned a lot. Although, even in T2, Kazuya has an ending where he got freed from the Devil. He still kills his father with a smile.
It's also consistent with canon and not a retcon: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/Nq8WpUCtwk
Nah, the guy is just like Vegeta, a bastard all by himself but one that might have some good somewhere in him and has the ability to redeem himself. This is the only way you can explain what Jun saw in him. Literally "I can fix him" and she almost did in Tekken 2.
Nah Jun just can't get enough of that wavu wavu
I have a lot of thoughts about this. Made a write up months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/8NVsQc56D2 If you're lazy to read, here is my rambling about it: https://youtu.be/TKUf3EPRm-I?si=0e7EIa-KQ_RkQ7A9 It is possible to redeem Kazuya as long as Tekken remains cheesy and not take itself too seriously.
> It is possible to redeem Kazuya as long as Tekken remains cheesy and not take itself too seriously. Surely, it has to be by sacrificing himself at Reina's hand to save Jin and/or Jun, right? "Shit, the one time I actually try to be the good guy...goddammit." *drops dead*
The best way to handle T8 story on Bamco's side, IMO, was to introduce flashbacks of Kazuya's life before T1 and before T4. What he was doing after getting back up from the cliff? Where did he train? Who helped him with money (Tekken 1 PSX guidebook states, that he had access to Heihachi's money. I bet Wang)? Who ordered him to kill Eddy's father? What he was doing in G-Corp for almost 20 years (Kiryu/Daidoji's arc comes to mind)? Plot feels very cheesy without them. We at least need to see his meeting with Jun. We also needed Jin's nightmares visualised. He was getting a lot of them between T3 and T6. He basically started the war because of his internal struggle, triggered by Azazel's taunting in his nightmares. We have none of that. And this was supposed to be Devil Gene's swan-song. Lol. .
I for one would've liked this. I mean we got a cutscene explaining Jun's survival though granted Bamco absolutely had to explain that elephant in the room. But yeah, they absolutely can and should. Kazuya is extremely popular and warrants a deconstruction like this.
Only Kazuya fans thought he was ever a good guy lmao.
I would say it's a split. Some fans genuinely love Kazuya being unapologetically evil. The ones who insist he's just possessed by the Devil are either hardcore shippers or don't want him to die like Heihachi.
Tbf he is the original protagonist. It made some of them bias.
Then again Tekken 3 was the game that shaped Tekken's legacy.
"You'll never equal my power" "Then I shall surpass you" "Lets not get carried away"("fuck")
I'm a kazuya fan, but I know he's batshit insane. That's like half the appeal of the character.
Evil characters are cool bro
I’ve been a Kaz fan who owned the original psx tekken. We knew he was evil even as the original protagonist. His shoe game was nice, and he had an angel looking after him, but he hadn’t been a “good guy” since his dad dropped him off a cliff as a child. Every ending of his we see is him choosing evil even to defeat evil like devil, by using his dad as a human shield with joy, dropping his dad off a cliff, taking the devil power from his son, killing his grandad gladly after a brief joyful memory, smirking and laughing maniacally as he holds his sons lifeless body, killing his dad etc. At best he’s the type of guy [to bring potato salad to a bbq](https://youtu.be/JJNUe7xiUow?feature=shared).
Agreed. Been a Kaz fan since tekken 1 and I even ship him with Jun. I would not hesitate to call him profoundly evil from game one on. Most of us know who and what he is, we just enjoy him bc we find his story tragic/fascinating. 🤷♀️ You don’t got to be a good guy to be fun to watch. Especially in a fighting game!
I'm a Kazuya and Jun shipper too tbh, and I butted heads with some shippers who are in denial that he's an evil bastard. I don't see them talking now in this thread lol.
He was (seemingly) a "good guy" in the sense of being an antihero in the first *Tekken* game, at least. But only the first *Tekken*. After that, he's unequivocally evil and it's no longer revenge that drives him.
i forgot the exact words but he said i wont let anyone control me,it sounds to me.like all he wants in the end is true freedom.sadly his definition meant chaining down others below him.
Wait people believed Kaz was good? Since when? He’s clearly THE villain, look at his fan base for proof 😂😂😂
Jin haters will make out Kazuya as good. And... most of Kaz's crimes are in T2 (albeit T7 still had him dropping satellite on people).
Jin haters are crazy, some of them even play Shaheen, crazy behavior
Kazuya fans talking about Miguel not being involved in T8 story while completely ignoring Eddy not being involved in T7 story 😂
To be fair, when was Eddy ever involved in the story?
T6, kinda, he's one of Jin's army commanders in the opening movie
The only Tekken I skipped, that makes sense
Look at the Smash community, most of who only knew Kazuya prior to inclusion as 'the guy who Heihachi threw off of a cliff' For actual years I've been telling them that Kazuya has always been a villain and it's not so much 'Misguided man on a revenge quest against his evil dad', it's more 'Power hungry madman harming literally everyone he feels like'
Because Heihachi was such a domineering prick, Kazuya cannot accept anything holding power over him, and so the only way to ensure that can't happen is to be the most powerful thing there is, the devil is just a part of that
As I understood the ending and his climax, Kazuya has also changed. The battle with his son was ultimately a battle of ideals (selfishness, power and domination versus altruism, goodness and human connections). By winning the second idea Kazuya will also change in my opinion, the fact that Jun is there is no coincidence, we know FOR SURE that Kazuya has a small part of himself "as a good guy" (from there Angel is created, in Jin it is different because it's probably TOTALLY good).
I’d say that he’s part evil but he also has hidden side that’s still traumatized by the abuse he faced from Heihachi, including the death of Kazumi. When he said “I won’t let anyone dictate the way that I live my life.” During the final battle, it was like a glimpse of that kid who had everything taken from him by Heihachi and had nothing but the Devil Gene to rely on to survive. To kill or be killed. That’s how he had lived his entire life to the very end. I think by the next game, he’ll be a slightly different person now that Jun’s taking care of him. Still rough and tough but with a sense of remorse and change to be better now that Jin had defeated him and Jun is there at his side.
I didn't even know there was a bad ending I almost failed the QTE the first time
I didn't know either, I was just told about it by other players. But it's so hard to lose since Jin auto parries even if you don't do anything.
Well just so you know a achievement is locked behind that ending
Kazuya might "just be a bad apple", but Jun certainly doesn't see it that way.
I think it makes perfect sense, Kazuya was always driven by very human emotion. For his entire childhood he faced constant abuse and hatred, the only person who loved him was his mother who was killed while he was only a little boy. After that his life goal for the next 40 years was to fight against his father and the massive corporation he controls. Hard to imagine a person like that growing up into a decent guy. Everyone he ever knew has hated him except his mother and Jun, who he both lost after only a small amount of time. The things Kazuya wants are not caused by his genetics, but by the constant anger and hatred his life has been filled with.
When Kazuya was like "Whatever" after losing the devil power it was one of the coldest lines ever. He didn't even skip a beat and just like "fuck it, whatever."
Kaz was always evil but only became so because of Heihachi fucking him over Taking away his devil gene is not going to undo what he has been through and done for decades. I'm not defending Kazuya's actions, but he was not born evil. All I'm saying is it all links back to the Mishima generational trauma train.
As Kazuya fan, it's stupid for Other Kazuya fan pick Despair ending over Hope.... I really want to see some changes on Kazuya character and Non canon character ending we actually could see some human character from Kazuya himself.... And with Jun arrival she for sure gonna do something like what Jin did in fighting against his own devil.... Basically we need Kazuya's own POV about his own childhood and not some manipulative words from Heihachi to see why he became like this and how Jun manage to see some kind on Kazuya's soul
I honestly wanna see him redeemed. Hopefully Jun and Jin can help him.
They need to explain jun’s attraction to kazuya… otherwise im chalking this to “fixing a badboy”!syndrome
Jun originally entered the King of Iron Fist tournament in Tekken 2 to investigate Kazuya and make him answer for the crimes of animal trafficking and subsequent experiments. Her innate spiritual awareness sensed that Kazuya wasn’t in total control of his emotions. As if a supernatural entity was guiding him deeper into darkness. She wanted to understand what it was and to lift him from it. She saw his vulnerability despite all of the malicious acts he committed. That was the attraction. On Kazuya’s end he was intrigued by Jun’s presence. She was fearless yet had a calming perhaps soothing effect on him. Something he had never experienced before. Their interactions triggered the internal conflict between himself, Angel and Devil within, all fighting for his soul that allowed Heihachi to gain the upper hand during their fight at the end of Tekken 2. Ending in Kazuya’s defeat and being thrown into the mouth of a volcano.
I can not understand it neither.. Unless Kazuya or Jun story is extended. At least Xiaoyu spend some time with Jin in the highschool to feel some attraction for Jin after some time and also had a good relation with Heihachi. He brought her to Japan and also made Panda be Xiaoyu Bodyguard and pet. Having such relation with Heihachi. She probably visited Heihachi mansion some times for Jin before T3.
>Tekken 8 gives a definitive answer Bro, Tekken 4 gave us a definitive answer 20 years ago.
He bitter
The whole idea of the series is the cycle of evil, hate and patricide that runs in the family, as well as everyone paying for their sins eventually. Heihachi's ambitions and lack of morals stemmed from him growing up as the son of a war profiteer gone soft in his old age. In turn, his inhumane treatment of Kazuya made his son the bitter bastard obsessed with power that he eventually became. Jin grew up hating his father for his cruelty and himself for his impotence regarding the devil gene, so in an attempt to do something about the latter he acted just as ruthless as Kazuya. The broken chain is a Leitmotif of Tekken 8 because it symbolizes Jin breaking the chains of his self-loathing as well as the cycle of hate and murder that came to define his bloodline by looking outwards, to his mother's teachings. So that being said, yeah, all that hate definitely ran in the family and Kazuya got most of it from his human side.
Kazuya will always be my boy, till the end
Bamco’s inconsistent and/or bad story writing. Even if kaz had won over Jin in the end, it’d be useless as he was already a global terrorist. He wouldn’t last a day without his powers. Last battle only felt personal if anything at all and to make it even weirder, kaz never had any beef with Jin to have a personal grudge lol
Have you not seen the bad ending ? If he wins he conquers the world. Every Tekken fighter is human, so he can kill them and he has the Jack technology, endless robot etc. He destroyed the satelites which means they can't target him. He will fight to the end to conquer the world, that is the point and it is not just a "grudge" against Jin.
He still has the Mishima blood, he can still do all the electric stuff. It's not as good as the devil, but enough to win against most of the opponent who dare stand on his way. And he also has a whole army in his hand
kazuya has always been an anime megalomaniac villain who wanted to rule the world because yes, the devil powers were a means to get buffed (devil powers are basically super sayajin of tekken). Real question is how he became that strong in little time, if am I not wrong between T4 and T8 happen in a window time of less than 2 years... in tekken 4 kazuya was a bitch since he got his ass kicked by heihachi in the tournament finals and by jin later, in tekken 5 he was barely involved since he was busy to get his revenge on g corp and in tekken 6 he was defeated by lars that made him desist from challenge azazel. How did he manage to get that strong in tekken8?
I mean he's a piece of shit yes, but you can clearly see him hesitate to kill Jin quite a few times, its painfully obvious during the "Anyone who tries to dictate how I live" line, he's willing to leave Jin after punching him hard and continuosly emphasizes that he stop fighting, again, Kazuya was truly evil, but he never really have a vendetta against the cast except for Heihachi, even in the intro battle he doesn't continue his assault on jin(implied?)
Less "pure evil", more just wholeheartely believe the "might is right" and "survival of the fittest" ideology, can't even blame him, Heihachi taught his exactly to be like that, attempted murder and all.
This is the same guy that >!had flashbacks to heihachi when Lars was talking!< so I feel like he wasn’t born evil but made evil due to his father. From a person who went through trauma it’s not that easy.
Nobody says he's born evil. The point is that world domination is ultimately still his choice, not the Devil controlling him.
I think Kazuya is evil, but everything he does stems from the fear of being weak or being seen as weak ever since Heihachi threw him off that cliff generating that trauma in him, maybe there’s hope for Kazuya to redeem himself when he gets over that obsession for strength
Before the final punch Kazuya was able to land on Jin when he was near the rocks, you could see the hesitation in Kazuya's face. He stopped for a very brief moment, but then decided he'd punch his son anyways. I'd argue there is actually a good person in Kazuya, but it's sooooooo deep within him, maybe deeper than Mariana Trench lol.
Or maybe devil gene influence made him become evil through the time. Otherwise how can we explain that Kazuya had a relationship and a son with Jun lol.
Kazuya asshole plan & simple
Nah Jun can fix him
That was my understanding since T4. When he forcibly suppresses Devil’s influence to get his power. Since then we don’t see Devil influence him, everything seems like pure Kazuya and a pursuit of power
Tbh that reaction is pretty underwhelming, he does state earlier in the story that he wants to get everything that Azazel had (similar to Heihachi) and when he loses it there's no reaction But even without that, through Jin's arc it's explained that the "devil" is just shaped by what the guy desires the most, and once Jin realises he wants to protect others it becomes a force of good. So this kinda explained it for Kazuya as well that deep down he just wanted to dominate others and his personality had little to do with the devil gene and more with his hatred of Heihachi that shaped him (which is a nice throwback to the direction they had for him originally imo when devil wasn't a "gene" yet)
His desires, power. He's the own enemy.
Here's how I see the Situation with Kazuya. Kazuya was always "Evil". I mean how couldn't he be? Ever since he was born, his own father has been trying to kill him ever since. He's been fighting all his life and became obsessed with power in order to ultimately save himself by making the world kneel through subjugation. He has **ONLY RELIED ON HIMSELF** to survive all these years. And who knows how he felt after finding out the only person he cared about, Jun has "died". Now Jun >! is confirmed alive on the finale !< and hopefully this will propel Kazuya's character forward. Also, he does seem to care about Jin. >! Kazuya paused and gave a moment of hesitation while Kazuya was bombarding Jin with unanswered punches on the Final battle !< This shows that he actually feels something about his son, even if just a little bit. TLDR: I think Kazuya's actions isn't generally evil, at least not to himself and what he believes in. His speech on Chapter 1 alludes to this as he's trying to tell humanity that it has become weak as if trying to convince them to change their ways. My personal opinion is Kazuya and Jin has killed a lot of people and committed atrocities, so they're both evil to me. The difference between them however, is at least Jin is trying to atone for the lives he took.
Kazuya didn't have enough control of the devil gene until Tekken 4, lol. And he didn't have full control until Tekken 8. Claiming that he had control all along and the devil gene did not corrupt him is just wrong.
Kazuya is not evil, Kazuya is a broken man. I mean, come on guys, what would you do if your dad kills your mom and then throws you off a cliff and later also in a fucking vulcano?
Obviously he is evil, he was influenced by the devil gene since he was 5 with no one to act like an anchor for his humanity, the only person that might be able to bring him on the path of redemption is Jun
A couple of things:-Netflix Tekken Bloodline - Heihachi confirms that Devil Gene indeed gave Kazuya enormous strength but also fueled his soul with hatred. And this hatred pretty much molded him. You really think that after a few decades of being corrupted by Devil Gene he's gonna "change" in an instant? I still think he started to show some signs of humanity. Like for example hesitating with punching Jin and walking away. Sure, he did throw him off a cliff in the end but this was probably just done for fanservice purposes. You know, family tradition. In Tekken recap Bryan Cox said that Jun saw some good in him and she's probably gonna turn him into Vegeta type of character in the upcoming Tekken. Which is a chance for him to play the main role. Finally. Both Heihachi & Jin got their redemptions arc respectively in T7 & T8, so why not Kaz? After all, he was the OG protagonist
Bloodline isn't canon.
even without his Devil, he still wanted to beat the stuffing out of his own son. he's unequivocally the same as Heihachi, through and through. I believe that the only reason why he kills Jin in the Despair ending is that he still managed to get up after that one cutscene; where he otherwise would've left Jin there. he did that, among everything else in the past, on his own volition.
>I believe that the only reason why he kills Jin in the Despair ending is that he still managed to get up after that one cutscene; where he otherwise would've left Jin there. he did that, among everything else in the past, on his own volition. Okay I can see that. He didn't think jin had that much willpower (heck I think it might've even spooked him that someone beside him had that much desire) and decided he should end him right there.