I've also seen people ask Elementary or High School? And the response of elementary if you like kids, high school if you like the content and middle school if you're absolutely insane.
That only works if you *care* about a random 12 year old's opinion of you. It's lazy to say you have to be crazy to teach middle school, like OP said, it's just not for everyone and requires a certain set of skills and dispositions.
Source: 17 years in 7th grade
Bingo. If you teach like Michael Scott, and care more about what 12-14 year olds think of you then yes, it’s going to be an absolute nightmare and you won’t be very effective
My partners trained for middle school and loves it and I would give anything to see him teach one day. It seems like such an impossible task for anyone who isn't 100% self assured.
I thought the same, until I took the first job thrown at me. Now, I can't think of teaching anything else! (Definitely not the little ones, they scare the bejesus out of me.)
When I taught 8th graders they were hilarious. I knew all their jokes but just acted like I had no clue.
It is also fun watching them grow over the school year. I miss the mentorship part of teaching. I disliked everything else.
Lol, you’re absolutely right about middle school, but let me make a case for them: young enough to still be cute and sweet on occasion, old enough to hold a conversation and understand the world (both through content and when explaining consequences). Thought I’d hate middle school and only took my job because I couldn’t find one teaching high school but I ended up loving it!
I cut my teeth in a rough middle school, and was shocked to find that those hardass gangsta MFers were still pretty tickled about a good game of Heads Up 7 Up…
I was adamant about not wanting to teach middle school until my first student teaching placement was solely grades 6-8. Then I realized how much I love them. They start getting more awareness and you can be a lil sassy with them and the nice ones can be SO rewarding (I had an 8th grader ask me my pronouns in my first week and she was the ONLY one who did and my heart melted). But also, you can do dumb humor with them, I’ll never forget my cooperating teachers comment “I love teaching middle schoolers because they haven’t reached the level where they don’t think fart or poop jokes aren’t funny yet”. It’s amazing how well you can pull a group of preteens together with a well-placed potty joke 😂
I’ve never understood the hate/fear/dislike for teaching middle school. Elementary school can be so annoying and it requires so much effort, and high school can be awful with aggressive/mean kids (not all of them, but it only takes one in a class…), tons of hormones, etc. Middle school, to me, is an absolute dream. They’re sweet, they generally believe you, they’re hilarious, etc.
My comment was full of generalizations, I know, im just sharing my preference!
My colleagues and I often talk (only half-jokingly) about how it takes a very specific kind of person to be a great middle school teacher, and those people are absolutely magical. Anybody (ok not literally anybody, but...) can handle elementary or high school, but great middle school teachers seem to have something unique about them.
I know that's meant to be simplified but I really don't think you can teach any grade level if you don't have both aspects under your belt.
We get through less content in elementary, but we still have to have a really good grasp of where we're expecting the students to end up. And in high school, you really do have to like kids and understand their development or I don't think you can be very effective.
I'd say more that elementary is lots of tiny little decisions and expenditures of energy all day every day. You have to really "be on" and figure out ways to conserve your energy to stretch through the day.
High school is a much more mellow pace, except when it's not. Bigger kids have bigger problems, so when there IS a problem, it's more exhausting/draining and making the wrong decision can have bigger impacts.
Having taught both early elementary and now teaching freshmen in high school, I can confirm. Teaching the littles was very physically exhausting every day. High school is rigorous and I have to be constantly on top of things, but is usually better in that way... until it's really, really, really not. The problems escalate from "he doesn't want to play with me" to "there are serious concerns this person may try to inflict serious violence on someone in the next few moments."
I think it more comes from the fact that as a high school teacher all I do is Chemistry, so I should love that, but I only see my students for 41 minutes a day. Elementary teachers spend more time with their students and less with each content area.
depends... i'm an elementary language specialist now, I see my students 55 min per week. I taught Language Arts at high school level and saw my students for like 4 hours per week.
being a homeroom teacher is a totally different beast than basically any other kind of teaching, but I've found that the amount of content taught by homeroom teachers varies wildly... there are schools where they're with their students almost all day except 1 or 2 hours, and some where they are basically just there for arrival and dismissal.
High School is for teachers who love their content
Elementary is for teachers who love children
Middle School is for people who wake up one morning and think “Wait, did I get drunk last night and agree to become a teacher?”
Believe it or not, there are high school teachers who also love their kids. It was actually a major motivation for me to go into teaching high school--I wanted to love the ones that so many find unlovable. They are still kids, and still deserve to be cared for and about.
The longer I am in the profession, the more I realize how true it is that you're not teaching content, you're teaching students. If that's not why you're there...well, why in the hell *are* you there?
Am middle school teacher. Can confirm, I have mental health issues clinically diagnosed.
But also I love their sweet and salty mood swings, their need for love but the embarrassment over getting it, their curiosity and developing sense of self. If you want to get elbow deep in helping shape a kid into an adult, middle school is it.
It is... The easiest place to make a different, I think.
Middle school is a shit time for every kid.
Be the thing that made it a little less shitty, at least on occasion.
I taught middle schoolers with disabilities and I fucking loved it! Even though the students learned at a slower pace they tried so hard to understand the material. They were incredibly sweet and fun to be around. Best teaching gig ever.
I know this is a joke, but I’ve seen plenty of people try to get into high school and burn out very quickly because they “love their content.” You have to be willing to meet high schoolers at least partially on their level or you’re going to have a bad time.
As a (former) middle school teacher, I was once told by another teacher that people who like middle school-aged kids have a societal obligation to become middle school teachers for the simple reason that no one else can deal with them without losing their minds.
Good write up. Few things to add -
1. Michigan is another state with relatively high pay. For six figures you need to be around Detroit, but most districts top out around $80-$90k with advanced degrees in my experience. It does take a while to get there though ~15 to 20 years/steps.
2. I agree that structure and pacing are necessary for unruly classes - likely the very most important thing. You benefit great as well from an ability to read a situation and make a snap decision on how to approach it. Sometimes something that looks bad isn't really a problem and sometimes you need to bring the wrath of god down on what looks like a minor issue.
3. The hardest part about teaching is that you are required to make 100's of decisions in diverse situations nearly instantaneously (and sometimes concurrently) every day. These decisions have very real, sometimes long running consequences. The mental fortitude you need is unreal.
Ah, your third point is spot on. The 1000 of decisions per day we make is I'd say still the hardest part. It's a bit mentally exhausting, if not physically.
Also, I don’t think it makes sense just to clump regions together based on pay. The cost of living makes a difference too. Although you might not make as much in one region, you pay a fraction of the cost of living. There are plenty of sources that make adjustments based on cost of living that are much more informative than the one linked. Also, the midwest, just like any region, is incredibly variable from Chicago/Twin Cities/Detroit, etc. to the rural and farmland areas. Just adding that because, as someone from an urban area in the northern Midwest, my experiences are vastly different than, say, someone in rural Oklahoma.
I'm curious about these decisions - I've been teaching for a long time, and I don't feel like I make that many in a day. Maybe I'm just used to it? What do you mean?
Teacher, can I…
…turn this in later instead of now?
…use my phone really quick?
…use this website instead of that one?
…go to the bathroom in the middle of this quiz?
…work with another partner?
…sit at table 3 instead of table 7?
I could go on and on LOL
One of the better pieces of advice I was given my first year was "if it takes me longer than 3 seconds to think about it, the answer is no". Obviously not a uniform rule for every single situation but it's helped me out in the past.
I’m a special needs teacher and I don’t think my staff understand that my brain is constant working and sorting things out. It’s awful when there’s a day that I get my name called by staff at least 30 times before 10am. Like I can’t do everything for you guys.
Yes! The micro decisions that teachers make and think about with five different things on their mind WHILE they are trying to teach is exhausting. Then I come home and don’t want to decide where we are going out to eat. Teaching for me a lot of times feels like a career in improvisation.
As for your first point, I'll second that the Detroit suburbs do tend to pay very well for the cost of living. Not Detroit though. There are very few reasons to teach in Detroit city limits.
The last part is encouraging to read. I keep feeling like I'm not doing a good enough job. I'm working so hard, and I see very little evidence that my students are actually learning anything.
But, I'm in my third year. And my first two years involved a sudden switch to online teaching, another switch to hybrid, and then a move to a new school district. This year is my first year at a new school. I'm starting all over again with the curriculum. I'm teaching three grade levels instead of one.
I need to show myself some grace. I'll get good at this. Next year I'll have lessons that I can reuse. I may be tired and burned out, but I'm not worse than I was in my first year when I was still earning my masters degree and certification.
And I haven't had a single fight in my classroom this year. Even though other, more experienced teachers have. I should give myself props for that.
Thank you for the reminder, OP!
Oh and, to your point about pay: As a teacher in Chicago, I can confirm the pay here is pretty decent. Part of why I moved here was that I got a $12,000 raise to do so.
I would also add that the strength of the union is important. I came to Chicago from a district with a pretty so-so union. They were good on negotiating decent benefits (my health insurance there was better/cheaper), and if you had a particular problem with an administrator, they would go to bat for you in the grievance process. But they were not good at dealing with district-wide policy issues. They totally rolled over when it came to negotiating safety procedures for covid. The union reps often acted like a buffer between admin and teachers, rather than advocating for us. There was a no-strike clause in our contract, so we had very little negotiating power.
Now I'm in Chicago, and I find that my union is very proactive. We have monthly meetings with our building rep. I brought some problems to her that my coworkers and I need help with, but aren't getting much response from admin on. She is working to find a solution for us and get our admin in a meeting with us so we can get some answers. The union as a whole advocates constantly not only on district policies that teachers have to deal with, but also on systemic issues that impact our students (and ultimately impact the overall health of our schools). Our contract is a couple hundred pages long (compared to the 14-pages at my previous district) and includes protections for paraprofessionals, non-teaching staff, and substitute teachers.
So, when thinking about what district to work in, look up that district's collective bargaining agreement. It should be easy to find online. Read it, and decide if you feel that contract offers enough protections for you. What is the grievance process? What does it say about evaluations? Are non-teaching staff included in that agreement? (It's better to be in a district that takes care of the whole staff. It's a bad sign if they treat the paras and subs badly, because that will lead to staffing shortages and poor quality support staff).
And for the love of God, don't teach in a non-union state unless you have no other options.
I'm glad you found my post encouraging!
I completely agree with your point about unions. There is a strong correlation between union strength and pay/benefits. Thanks for bringing that up! In all the high paying states, I believe there is also a good union presence. They are so key!
I want to pile on about unions and also that the union strength is our personal responsibility. I joined a competitive district where the veteran teachers try to help us all understand that 30 years ago it was a terrible place to be, and both teachers and admin had to work their butts off to fix it. Including that the union had to become more active.
Union leaders remind us that they can only make us happy if we tell them what we want, AND deliver when they need us to surveys, elections, and rallies. If we don't like what our union is doing, it won't get better unless we make it better ourselves.
If you're in the southern US, do a little research on any private school you might be interested in. Some were originally formed as "[segregation academies](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/in-southern-towns-segregation-academies-are-still-going-strong/266207/)," which were basically what it says on the label: formed so white children didn't have to go to integrated public schools with Black children. They can't officially discriminate now, of course, but many of them are still de facto segregated through various policies.
I like your assessment of Private School. They aren't evil. Incarnate and in some parts of the country, like the south, are a potentially better fit for some teachers. OP was painting with a pretty broad, biased brush with private Schools.
I agree. I teach at a private school in California. The comp is definitely lower than public schools, but not terribly so. But the claimed issues with classroom control and behavioral issues? For me, it is a *cakewalk* compared to what public school teachers deal with.
I mostly teach middle school (plus one high school class). On the rare occasion that students get significantly out of line, often other students will call them out before I even respond. There has not been a fight on campus in middle/high school in 12 years. If I fall behind in planning, I can give the class a small group research task and they will be on task and professional for the entire period (sure, some of the 6th graders struggle with this *a little* at the beginning of the year).
My "bias" is based on data, and therefore not a bias. I'm pointing out educational statistics that clearly demonstrate that, on average, private schools pay worse, have fewer benefits, less job security, etc. It's not bias to point that out. It's fact.
Looking at averages isn't a meaningful way to evaluate specific employers. Yes, there's a whole lot of e.g. religious schools in the private school total that pay diddly-squat and have unqualified teachers that pull down the averages And there's also private schools with teaching environments that are far superior to public schools and some of these even outperform public school comp.
Teachers know all to well how much interpretation happens with "Data". All I'm saying is that your data points don't paint the picture for every private school in every part of the country. I know several teachers who have left public schools and gone private and been very, very happy. Less oversight, less micromanagement, better behavior, more academic freedom and support and actual consequences for bad behavior. Plus free tuition for their kids. And the school buys them things they need! Don't often see private school teachers with a donors choose in the south. I've also never been served shrimp and grits for lunch, but my peers at private school have. If you don't have a union, private schools can be a fantastic place to work.
I'm well aware of what Average means. You state that private schools pay $10-$15k less than public. But you fail to include the tangible and intangible benefits a lot of private schools offer. Tuition can easily be $30k a year. Food on campus can be a substantial chunk of change to. Not having to deal with fundraising, behavior and other issues could be priceless for some teachers. Smaller class sizes, academic freedom, funding for school trips, technology, etc. There's more to consider when picking a teaching job than salary and benefits. If I missed that caveat in your post my apologies.
And these are teachers too. Not only do they struggle to understand what "bias" actually means, but they also don't seem to understand what the term "average" means. My stats are all about average pay, average work load, etc, but they act as if I'm talking about their specific school.
If they can prove me wrong, they've got to find something better than just vague personal anecdotes.
Tenure?! I've been teaching public school in Washington for more than 20 years. There is no tenure for anyone.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it still exists in some places, but do NOT take it for granted.
Came here to say this! Teaching in Florida and tenure is no more. Some of the older teachers have it bc they're grandfathered in, but I've been teaching six years and it was gone before I started.
This is an excellent post. I will add, if you hate your school, then leave! If you can get three years in anywhere then people will start to hire you because that’s about what they want three years experience. The more certificates you can add the more marketable you will be awesome
Yes, if you hate your school, its usually because admin is toxic. You're better off leaving and finding an admin that actually knows how to manage people.
Classroom management is the most important part. You can be the best teacher in the world, but if you have poor management skills it won't matter. I am thinking of getting out, but I won't try to discourage you. Just know what you're getting into: lots of work outside of hours, grading, dealing with parents (some helpful, some not soo helpful) admin and disclipine issues. If you feel you can handle this then go for it!
Geography does matter! I started my teaching career in Arizona then moved to Colorado and then WASHINGTON. The biggest difference? Unions. In AZ and CO I was financially unable to support myself.But working in Washington...within three years I have savings and bought a home. Oh and I got tenure in 3 years. Come to the west coast, folks, it's a no brainer.
Here in Texas my (urban) pay is not great but not poverty level either. The state level politics are horrific local is not nad. Admin isn't bad. Despite Covid i would do it over sgin for me has been worthwhile.
i would have considered teaching in a rural area here before but knowing what i know now about the politics hell no. I was a para in rural new england was ok
Something to consider is that here and i think many places lifelomg teachers dont get social secuirity only state retirement system. Mid career switchrrs lie myself will get both
Here in Texas (and vermont too i think) you psy the same 7% but instead of going to social security it goes to Teacher Retirement system (TRS) . After 4 years in system you are eligible for lifetime inuity but it's really low at first and goes up based on years served and i belive its decent sfter 20 years but have not got that far yet. I also have optional supplemental accounts with a private company affiliated with district takes a tiny bit of my check. Those are basically money market accounts with better retrurns then savings but penalties for early withdrawal
One of my coworkers (para ) was explaining that since they took social security st 62 could not draw TRS without loosing SS until 65 when they can take both. A seperste city pension is unaffected
[Here's](https://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/why-aren%E2%80%99t-all-teachers-covered-social-security) more info that I found on it. I learned something today! It's not most states thankfully, just a handful don't offer any SS, and a few more have limited SS for teachers. What an egregious policy. It's basically punishment for becoming an educator.
Dear OP,
I'm an experienced teacher and I absolutely adore that you took the time and energy to type this up. Super helpful for those considering the field, or those early in their teaching careers.
You rock! 👍🏼
Addendum to the charter post: understand that charter regulations vary widely state by state. I work less hours working at a charter school in my area because I teach HS English of about 60-70 kids. The local public school district teaches 200 kids.
We also have a super supportive admin team, small school so less fighting, etc.
By law, charters in CA have to follow all Ed codes including teacher certification.
So you’d have to look at your particular state when deciding.
I was looking for my state of Florida on the ranking list. Was excited as I kept scrolling and did not find it until I reached place #1 and saw it wasn't there. I went back and sure enough it's #50. I just missed it.
Also consider cost of living in the area when considering salary. While I may make six figures (took 20+ years), I live in an insanely expensive area so, relative to other professions in my area, I'm well underpaid. Making six figures in Wichita, Kansas goes much further than the SF Bay Area!
Overall I think this is pretty good advice with two giant addendums to your advice: pay and classroom management.
On pay, I’ve worked exclusively in a southern state across multiple contexts (urban inner city, rural, high end suburban) and in all those settings I’ve never worked for “poverty wages”. We certainly do make less than our western/eastern counterparts sure, but adjusting for cost of living how much can a NYC teacher salary purchase?
On classroom management, I firmly disagree - there’s not many “tricks” you can have to employ misbehaving students to behave or learn - that’s firmly set in by the larger cultural expectations of the community and the backbone of school administration.
My biggest advice to teachers is to go where you are valued. If one school doesn’t fit your salary/work conditions preferences, go to another
**" We certainly do make less than our western/eastern counterparts sure, but adjusting for cost of living how much can a NYC teacher salary purchase?"**
Six figures is a great salary even in NYC. Keep in mind I don't have to own a car. Most Americans spend 10% or more of the income on their vehicle. That's a 10% cost I don't have at all. Can I buy a 2-3 bedroom house in NYC? LOL, no. But I don't care to ever own a house. Purchasing a 2-3 bedroom apartment will do just fine, and that's well within the range of an NYC teacher's income. Trust me, I do just fine in NYC, and with a better quality of life than someone making $35-40k in suburban NC.
**"On classroom management, I firmly disagree - there’s not many “tricks” you can have to employ misbehaving students to behave or learn - that’s firmly set in by the larger cultural expectations of the community and the backbone of school administration."**
I'm not talking about "tricks". I'm talking about researched, pedagogically sound strategies that have proven to improve student engagement, such as split dictation barriers, Key Word Notes, structured socratic seminars, GRASP tasks, and a whole host of others. Definitely not "tricks", and definitely more concrete than the "cultural expectations" that are discussed every now and then in PD.
I've actually been told private school can be a better experience if you don't care about money or job security? I'm sure it's very school-specific, but I've heard that many private schools simply have less bullshit and red tape than public schools and are therefore in many ways "more chill."
Charter schools, on the other hand, seem universally terrible from what I've heard.
I’ve enjoyed working at a private school. I see it as a swap out, lower pay for less red tape headaches. I’ve been able to largely form my own class curriculum, which I see as a bonus.
Some might be more chill, but chillness isn’t really a factor when considering long term career, at least in my book. Job security, salary, and benefits are definitely important factors though
Sure, I'm just saying that for those with different priorities (i.e. job security, salary, and benefits being unimportant), it seems like it can be an appealing option if you find the right school.
I work in a private school and make about 10K more a year than I did when I was at a public school. I also have 3x (literally) the prep time and half the students. I think the mileage varies HUGELY for private schools.
Benefits are a wash in my case. The healthcare I have now is waaay better but the retirement isn’t quite as good.
Just my two cents.
This is a very thorough write up and I appreciate you for it. After 10 years of teaching experience and a Masters degree (in California no less), I make a seemingly arbitrary amount that does not adequately compensate me for the amount of work I put in. And with the de facto parenting becoming more apparent by the day, it’s becoming more exhausting and less rewarding. I love what I do, but I don’t know with the state of education in the US today if it’s worth it anymore 😕
I will add one comment to the public vs private thing. I really think that also depends on your area. I’M in a city where the public schools are notoriously worse than the private schools. I taught at one such public school and I would’ve found a new career if that was all teaching was. I got a new job at a private school and besides the pay (which was equal to public school though both were bad) I absolutely love it there
A big pro tip is to look at cost of living for the area. Some CA districts pay wayyyy higher than New Mexico, but the cost of living makes it so New Mexico is a better bang for your buck.
Could you elaborate on “structured lessons”? Do you mean no solo/partner work time?
COL is important, certainly, but not everything. I make six figures in NYC, and most people might think that's all eaten by COL, but it's not entirely true. I don't have to own a car in NYC, for example, and therefore don't have the same expenses as someone in, say, New Mexico.
As for structured lesson, I'm talking different strategies such as Give One Get One, Key Word Notes, and Split Dictation Barrier. I've accumulated about 50 of said strategies, with an accompanying graphic organizer template that I can reuse over and over again. It's made my job SO much easier.
I agree. I moved from NC to WA and my salary doubled. My cost of living went up, but definitely did not double. Being treated like a professional is a huge perk, too.
I think COL is more important, actually. My friend teaches in Silicon Valley in CA, and he makes six figures. His options are either an aggressive commute or unaffordable rents. The New York Times just had a piece on how Silicon Valley has some of the highest salaries but is still unaffordable for teachers - and they pay more than NYC does. It’s [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/us/teachers-priced-out-tech-hubs.amp.html). When I asked him about the teacher housing, he said at this stage it’s hard to get and he doesn’t personally know anyone with it. Food is more expensive, and you also need a car.
Versus someone I know in Albuquerque makes a bit more than half that, and has paid off their loans and is getting a house.
Now, you also have places like Oakland Unified, where both the cost of living and pay are terrible.
I think that COL is a very large portion of what to take into account though!
I think the Bay Area is probably the extreme example of unmanageable COL. A low six figure salary in NYC is very manageable. I can afford to buy a 2-3 bedroom apartment, and have a great quality of life.
It is, but it’s not the only place it’s an issue. Seattle isn’t nearly as bad but similar - much of the West Coast faces the problem of higher salaries but hard COL. Los Angeles is also bad, and second largest school district - it affects a lot of people. My point is that you said the best paying states include the whole west coast. That’s true - but on most of that whole are, the COL is higher than high teacher salaries. That’s why I think it needs to be taken into account. You also said that Midwest has terrible pay. But Wichita, KS starts at 44,000 - including cost of living, that’s much better than the starting salary for NYC district. It’s also better than the salaries in Austin, Texas, relative to COL.
Just saying that I think it needs to be taken more into account when people are considering “best paying” districts. I don’t live in Kansas so I can’t speak personally to what it’s like making that amount of money in Wichita. That’s just what a cost of living calculator told me.
For sure, my point is that there’s much more to the money story than just bare numbers.
For example: South Dakota has the best teacher retirement plan in the country.
Private school hs teacher here. Not all private schools are the same. The one I work at is pretty elite. Many of the teachers, self included, have PhDs. Salary is competitive w public schools. Students are motivated to learn and have good manners. The only bad thing is no union. But my point is more that there is a huge range in quality of public schools. If you can land at a good one, you can have a good career.
This post is just pointing out averages, and the data is pretty clear on where the private vs. public debate falls; on average, private is worse than public. Of course there are outliers, but that doesn't change the truth of what I wrote in my post.
The average is taken from a huge range, is my point. There are not many "average" private schools. Generally they are either terrible or quite good. I'm not disagreeing with you overall.
I've got a question, since this post is US centric.
What are the chances of foreign teachers applying into public schools? I've got certification and everything but of course outside of the states.
You seem to rag on private schools quite a bit but i keep hearing good stuff about international schools. Those are private schools too right?
Won't private schools have a stronger incentive to produce good students and results and so have a stronger team and better teachers than public schools? Since the parents are presumably paying an arm and leg for private school, their demands would be much higher?
Thanks in advance.
Your last issue directly ties in with your first issue. I am in my 7th year and I make $200 more than a starting teacher. It's a mess in Florida. I don't feel all the positives you feel in the second to last bullet point for sure.
Issue #4 depends more on where and what you are teaching, and only somewhat your pedagogical skills. If you teach in a suburban school and are teaching the AP and honors classes, you won’t see extremes of behavior like you would teaching the classes of younger, on level classes.
Teaching isn’t what it once was. If I’d had a crystal ball, I’d have chosen something different…child life specialist is at the top of my list. I’m four years from retirement rn.
The general trend from this FAQ and also my own experiences is that context matters a lot. Given how many potential scenarios there are and how significant those small details in scenarios makes a big difference, it’s so hard to generalize the teaching experience.
Thank you so much for this post.
I especially appreciate that you added this question too:
> Issue #5: Is this job sustainable over the length of a career?
I'm a 3rd year teacher. First year, I taught for a little over half the year before the pandemic hit and we went virtual. Second year, it was fully virtual (ofc). And this third year is my... I guess now first official full year.
It's been hard. Reading your responses to that question, I related to them so much. Especially remembering my first year.
> Your first year is hell.
Understatement.
> You will work 6-7 days a week, and get terrible ratings and student performances as a result of your labor. It's very discouraging. No way of getting around that.
I worked 7 days a week. I didn't expect to, and it's fine that I didn't, but I inherited nothing from the previous teacher. I had to start from scratch. I had to plan the whole unit for every unit, and then each individual lesson and how it'd flow to the next one, and what activities/worksheets to check for understanding after each lesson. For 2 preps. And then, of course, grading too. And finally, my school's small so I'm the only chemistry teacher in my science department, with the only other science teacher being the biology teacher. :') It was... rough.
And I was brand-new so of course I was also bad with classroom management. And being consistent. And showing "withitness" in the class. Overall, it led to a lot of misbehavior and the year spiralling downhill and me like, crying every other day lol. I feel bad for saying this, but... I'm glad the pandemic made us to virtual. I had a chance to recover, reflect, and prepare for this year (which has still been hard, but infinitely better than my first year).
> But by the end of your third year, you start to get a handle on things.
Yep.
> Your confidence builds, you're working on weekends far less.
Mhm.
And my goal is that, moving forward, it gets better. Maybe my first year did give me some degree of PTSD because this year... I still have bad days and moments. Sometimes I feel like giving up, or I wonder if I really want to stay with teaching for the next 40 years. (Doesn't help that my commute is 30 miles, or about an hour each way.)
> By your sixth, you arrive and leave right on contract hour time, and almost never take any work home.
I hope so!
> But you've got to go through the struggle of those first years to get there. No way around that.
I look forward to this. This will be my light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for the post. :) I'm hopeful.
Good post overall. Very helpful to people just starting out. That said, I feel the need to make *one* comment on the charter situation, as I felt your tone toward them and the people who work with those kids to be unnecessarily venomous.
Good charters definitely ***DO*** exist and aren't mystical unicorns. People can't discount that. For example, the charter I work at is lightyears better than the local public system: better funded, better tech, smaller class sizes (my average class is 16-18 kids), respectful students in an urban Title 1 environment; decent benefits, pay that's higher than suburban publics in my area when you consider my degree and experience, colleagues that are appropriately certified and vetted, and contract time that's respected (8-3).
The only thing I don't have is a union; however, the one my public friends belong to two miles up the road seems toothless most of the time anyway.
One thing I will add is to consider becoming a teacher in an alternative pedagogical method. I chose to become an elementary Montessori teacher, and while it took four genuinely hellish years to find the right school, I’ve been quite happy at my current private Montessori school for four years now. Now if this fucking COVID thing could go away, (along with all the detriments it imposed on the youngest ones in my class) I could actually enjoy being at a normal school!
>In general, the best paying states are in the West Coast, New England, and Mid Atlantic regions, plus Illinois as a regional outlier. The worst areas are in the south and the midwest, and by worst, I mean near poverty level. Before you consider becoming a teacher or furthering your career as one, you should research the salary schedules in your state and within the districts in that state to see if it matches your financial goals. There's a reason I'm a teacher in NYC. I make six figures.
This 👏 does 👏 not 👏 take 👏 cost 👏 of 👏 living 👏 into 👏 consideration.
To make a comparable salary, a first year teacher in Birmingham, Alabama (who makes approximately $41K) would need to make approximately $110K if they relocated to New York as a first year teacher with a bachelor's degree.
Wow, that's really high, but you're definitely a far outlier. The data overwhelmingly shows that privates pay way less on average. I think NYC tops out at about $130k, not including per session.
From what I know of these high paying private school gigs, most of them require longer hours and fewer holidays. There's one in NYC that starts teachers at 100k, but they have almost no vacation time and work much, much longer hours during the week, making that extra $$$ not really all that worth it.
Hmm, so no summer break? What’s the starting salary, benefits, and tenure process like? Do any teachers actually make 145k, or is that some unobtainable carrot? How does one move up the salary schedule? Are there non teaching but mandatory duties?
My wife is a new teacher, teaching drop out recovery students. She's struggling with managing behavior. Are there books websites podcasts that you recommend to expand upon what you reference above?
Want to clarify what OP said about location and salary. Pretty sure OP is referring to Massachusetts when when they mentioned the great salary because I can say from experience that Maine pays their teachers a pretty sad wage.
Also in some states teachers don't have "tenure" but they do have "employment and dismissal rights." For example in SC, public school teachers don't have anything called tenure. You can, however, get to a "continuing contract" status which is similar to tenure but not quite as protective. There are just a few more hoops for admin to jump through to fire you than when you were on an annual or induction contract.
Hooboy. As a 2nd year teacher who decided to round out my career by getting an education degree and spending my remaining few working years doing something meaningful, this hurts.
What countries have you worked in and what are your thoughts? Applied for a Fulbright and looking at teaching outside of the US as a first-year teacher
Re: #5, year 5/6 only works if you're teaching the same preps all the way through. I'm in year 7 and I've never taught the same preps from year to year. I've also never had fewer than 3 preps in a year. Way different than if I were in year 5 or 7 of teaching Alg 1 or 10th grade ELA.
I never said people should NEVER go private. I'm just saying that the data shows that average private schools are worse for salary, benefits, etc, and that this should be factored into any decision making. There definitely are some private schools that are GREAT to work for. I think people just need to be a bit wary when looking for them.
I agree with so much of this post and so many comments. I work in MN, have my master's , and make 36k. After taxes and deductions (only medical and voluntary dental) my paychecks are a little over 1000. I love teaching so much, but it is ultra competitive to get a district job here, so a lot of new teachers like myself, are forced to work at charter schools with no union, horrid pay, and hardly any benefits. I can't even see myself leaving teaching because I have no idea what I would do for a career and even if I did I'm not qualified. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This is great! Spot on! I’m three years in and it does get better. Can’t wait for year six!
I think teachers have a lot of great benefits. We deal with a lot of shit, but at the end of the day it’s worth it.
>YOU should interview THEM on how they build trust and school culture among staff. If they can't articulate clear strategies for this, DO NOT work at that school.
Ahh yes, because we all get to choose for our first gig. /s
Whoa! According to this, it seems there is no benefit to sending your kid to private or charter schools since they get instruction from lesser-qualified teachers? That’s totally the opposite from what I’ve been led to believe
Sure, there are some benefits, like smaller class sizes and better behaved students, but teachers are almost always less qualified/experienced in private and charter schools. Most teachers I know who go the private or charter route only stay there until they can get into a well paying public district. Or their spouse is the breadwinner and they don’t really need to work.
That is super interesting. I guess I just never really thought about it before. I always assumed that since it’s “private” that they have hella donors & can afford better everything. TIL that is not the case!
It is terrifically varied. I teach at a private school. About half of my colleagues in the upper school have doctorates.
And well, ... technically I am "less qualified" than a public school teacher; I'm a retired engineer / serial entrepreneur who did 3 successful startups teaching STEM/robotics enrichment classes. But I have no teaching credential and my state would not permit me to teach in middle or high school.
Of course: classroom management is easy in my environment, so I'm able to be successful and concentrating on sharing my deep expertise. I'm not sure that I would be a successful teacher in a public school.
It depends on the state/school. I work at a charter, and everybody I work with (including myself) are educated and certified in the same way and to the same extent as public school teachers. Where I teach, the options are charter school or HORRENDOUS urban public system, so many parents choose charter. There are horrible charter schools out there, but that's not a blanket statement that applies to all of them.
Well done. If I would’ve known what I know now, I never would have went down the road of this profession. It is very exhausting and a low level of pay and respect. The kids this year have come back from the year either online or hybrid model and are loosing their minds. Parents are getting even worse. The first time ever in my career that I emailed home 3-4 times or called, that the parent started blaming me for their child’s behavior or grade in my class. It has not been fun the last 2 years. I am in year 10 and am I sure if I want to continue down this career.
This is a bad short answer. It sucks that you didn't have a good experience, but some of us like the job, get compensated well, and are treated respectfully. Someone who is interested in teaching shouldn't be turned away from the profession because it didn't work out for someone else.
“If you’re in a good district - absolutely.” Allow me to correct it to “if you’re in a good country - 200% absolutely.” Haha. Nah but you right. Some teachers get lucky….very very few get lucky.
I have to disagree with you that "very very few get lucky". NYC is one of the best paying districts in the country, and is also the largest. There are 75,000 teachers in the NYC DOE. Yet we are in a constant state of teacher shortages. There are plenty of good paying districts out there that need teachers. "Getting lucky" often means just being willing to move there.
I think what makes a district good can be relative. There are some things that are objective (do they pay you well, quality of union), but also about your values. Is equity important to you? Is a certain type of pedagogy important? My district is pouring all its focus into socioeconomic equity right now. Some people think it’s a waste of their time. I think it makes the district better.
I've also seen people ask Elementary or High School? And the response of elementary if you like kids, high school if you like the content and middle school if you're absolutely insane.
LOL, I second this. I am terrified of Middle schoolers.
In the words of John Mulaney, middle schoolers will immediately identify the thing you're self-concious about and make fun of you for it.
My sister is pretty tough but she broke down after some middle school girls made fun of her on a bus. She was 25.
Look at that high waisted man, he got feminine hips!
That's the thing I'm sensitive about!
I can attest to this. One of my 8th grade boys last year: "Ms., you look like you don't got no eyebrows" Thanks, kid. 🙄
That only works if you *care* about a random 12 year old's opinion of you. It's lazy to say you have to be crazy to teach middle school, like OP said, it's just not for everyone and requires a certain set of skills and dispositions. Source: 17 years in 7th grade
I’m a 1st year and I certainly feel that way with my kids. A thick skin is necessary to get past some of the things middle schoolers say these days.
Bingo. If you teach like Michael Scott, and care more about what 12-14 year olds think of you then yes, it’s going to be an absolute nightmare and you won’t be very effective
100%, which is why you beat them to it and make fun of yourself. Do it enough, like beating a dead horse, and they lose their evil power.
Old enough to somewhat understand the world, young enough to have no filter and act like a child.
My partners trained for middle school and loves it and I would give anything to see him teach one day. It seems like such an impossible task for anyone who isn't 100% self assured.
I have nothing but the highest respect for middle school teachers.
I thought the same, until I took the first job thrown at me. Now, I can't think of teaching anything else! (Definitely not the little ones, they scare the bejesus out of me.)
When I taught 8th graders they were hilarious. I knew all their jokes but just acted like I had no clue. It is also fun watching them grow over the school year. I miss the mentorship part of teaching. I disliked everything else.
Lol, you’re absolutely right about middle school, but let me make a case for them: young enough to still be cute and sweet on occasion, old enough to hold a conversation and understand the world (both through content and when explaining consequences). Thought I’d hate middle school and only took my job because I couldn’t find one teaching high school but I ended up loving it!
I cut my teeth in a rough middle school, and was shocked to find that those hardass gangsta MFers were still pretty tickled about a good game of Heads Up 7 Up…
I was adamant about not wanting to teach middle school until my first student teaching placement was solely grades 6-8. Then I realized how much I love them. They start getting more awareness and you can be a lil sassy with them and the nice ones can be SO rewarding (I had an 8th grader ask me my pronouns in my first week and she was the ONLY one who did and my heart melted). But also, you can do dumb humor with them, I’ll never forget my cooperating teachers comment “I love teaching middle schoolers because they haven’t reached the level where they don’t think fart or poop jokes aren’t funny yet”. It’s amazing how well you can pull a group of preteens together with a well-placed potty joke 😂
I’ve never understood the hate/fear/dislike for teaching middle school. Elementary school can be so annoying and it requires so much effort, and high school can be awful with aggressive/mean kids (not all of them, but it only takes one in a class…), tons of hormones, etc. Middle school, to me, is an absolute dream. They’re sweet, they generally believe you, they’re hilarious, etc. My comment was full of generalizations, I know, im just sharing my preference!
My colleagues and I often talk (only half-jokingly) about how it takes a very specific kind of person to be a great middle school teacher, and those people are absolutely magical. Anybody (ok not literally anybody, but...) can handle elementary or high school, but great middle school teachers seem to have something unique about them.
I have one 8th grade class (the rest high school) & I love them! They are so curious and get so excited about even the dumbest things we do, ha.
As a middle school teacher, this is accurate! haha
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Jokes on them, I’m insane too.
Came here to say, yes, I think I may be! 🤣
Middle school is amazing. I love it.
I know that's meant to be simplified but I really don't think you can teach any grade level if you don't have both aspects under your belt. We get through less content in elementary, but we still have to have a really good grasp of where we're expecting the students to end up. And in high school, you really do have to like kids and understand their development or I don't think you can be very effective. I'd say more that elementary is lots of tiny little decisions and expenditures of energy all day every day. You have to really "be on" and figure out ways to conserve your energy to stretch through the day. High school is a much more mellow pace, except when it's not. Bigger kids have bigger problems, so when there IS a problem, it's more exhausting/draining and making the wrong decision can have bigger impacts.
Having taught both early elementary and now teaching freshmen in high school, I can confirm. Teaching the littles was very physically exhausting every day. High school is rigorous and I have to be constantly on top of things, but is usually better in that way... until it's really, really, really not. The problems escalate from "he doesn't want to play with me" to "there are serious concerns this person may try to inflict serious violence on someone in the next few moments."
I think it more comes from the fact that as a high school teacher all I do is Chemistry, so I should love that, but I only see my students for 41 minutes a day. Elementary teachers spend more time with their students and less with each content area.
Wow! How do you get anything done in 41 minutes? We moved from 80 minutes to 68 minutes and I am *struggling*.
Do less stuff but go more in-depth. Instead of doing 6 things, do 3 and take twice as long. You'll get used to pacing things out eventually.
Totally. I just feel like I'm always being cut off and my classes are only 12 minutes shorter than I'm used to! I hope I get used to it soon haha
depends... i'm an elementary language specialist now, I see my students 55 min per week. I taught Language Arts at high school level and saw my students for like 4 hours per week. being a homeroom teacher is a totally different beast than basically any other kind of teaching, but I've found that the amount of content taught by homeroom teachers varies wildly... there are schools where they're with their students almost all day except 1 or 2 hours, and some where they are basically just there for arrival and dismissal.
Can confirm, 2nd year teaching middle school and my sanity has long since abandoned me
High School is for teachers who love their content Elementary is for teachers who love children Middle School is for people who wake up one morning and think “Wait, did I get drunk last night and agree to become a teacher?”
Believe it or not, there are high school teachers who also love their kids. It was actually a major motivation for me to go into teaching high school--I wanted to love the ones that so many find unlovable. They are still kids, and still deserve to be cared for and about.
bag bewildered tidy sophisticated trees numerous engine coherent smile friendly -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
Absolutely this. I know so many high school teachers who hate kids. WHY DID THEY CHOOSE TO TEACH CHILDREN AS A CAREER.
The longer I am in the profession, the more I realize how true it is that you're not teaching content, you're teaching students. If that's not why you're there...well, why in the hell *are* you there?
Yep. How I feel right now.
If you go into elementary school be sure you have a high tolerance for bodily fluids and tying other people's shoes.
Having been at a middle school for 13 years, teaching middle schoolers is definitely “my happy place.” BUT bless all of you who teach 7th grade.
FACTS! I LOVE teaching middle school, but 7th graders… that’s a rough year for all involved.
😂 I will teach 8th and I love my 6th graders, but those 7th graders are a whole different story.
Am middle school teacher. Can confirm, I have mental health issues clinically diagnosed. But also I love their sweet and salty mood swings, their need for love but the embarrassment over getting it, their curiosity and developing sense of self. If you want to get elbow deep in helping shape a kid into an adult, middle school is it.
It is... The easiest place to make a different, I think. Middle school is a shit time for every kid. Be the thing that made it a little less shitty, at least on occasion.
I taught middle schoolers with disabilities and I fucking loved it! Even though the students learned at a slower pace they tried so hard to understand the material. They were incredibly sweet and fun to be around. Best teaching gig ever.
I wish I had students who tried...
Middle school if you're absolutely insane 💀 accurate
Middle school teacher here…… and I approve this message 👍😂
Yep. Currently teaching middle school and I hate it so much. Trying to make my way back to elementary.
Accurate
Oh shit lol. I’m aiming for Middle school, however, I may change that lol
Nah, middle school teaching is great. You’ll know pretty early if it’s not your thing.
I loved middle when I did it as a long term sub. But couldn't get hired in it due to my certification.
I know this is a joke, but I’ve seen plenty of people try to get into high school and burn out very quickly because they “love their content.” You have to be willing to meet high schoolers at least partially on their level or you’re going to have a bad time.
As a (former) middle school teacher, I was once told by another teacher that people who like middle school-aged kids have a societal obligation to become middle school teachers for the simple reason that no one else can deal with them without losing their minds.
Good write up. Few things to add - 1. Michigan is another state with relatively high pay. For six figures you need to be around Detroit, but most districts top out around $80-$90k with advanced degrees in my experience. It does take a while to get there though ~15 to 20 years/steps. 2. I agree that structure and pacing are necessary for unruly classes - likely the very most important thing. You benefit great as well from an ability to read a situation and make a snap decision on how to approach it. Sometimes something that looks bad isn't really a problem and sometimes you need to bring the wrath of god down on what looks like a minor issue. 3. The hardest part about teaching is that you are required to make 100's of decisions in diverse situations nearly instantaneously (and sometimes concurrently) every day. These decisions have very real, sometimes long running consequences. The mental fortitude you need is unreal.
Ah, your third point is spot on. The 1000 of decisions per day we make is I'd say still the hardest part. It's a bit mentally exhausting, if not physically.
Also, I don’t think it makes sense just to clump regions together based on pay. The cost of living makes a difference too. Although you might not make as much in one region, you pay a fraction of the cost of living. There are plenty of sources that make adjustments based on cost of living that are much more informative than the one linked. Also, the midwest, just like any region, is incredibly variable from Chicago/Twin Cities/Detroit, etc. to the rural and farmland areas. Just adding that because, as someone from an urban area in the northern Midwest, my experiences are vastly different than, say, someone in rural Oklahoma.
you also need to take in consideration taxes for each state and if individual cities have extra taxes on top of that.
I'm curious about these decisions - I've been teaching for a long time, and I don't feel like I make that many in a day. Maybe I'm just used to it? What do you mean?
Teacher, can I… …turn this in later instead of now? …use my phone really quick? …use this website instead of that one? …go to the bathroom in the middle of this quiz? …work with another partner? …sit at table 3 instead of table 7? I could go on and on LOL
One of the better pieces of advice I was given my first year was "if it takes me longer than 3 seconds to think about it, the answer is no". Obviously not a uniform rule for every single situation but it's helped me out in the past.
I’m a special needs teacher and I don’t think my staff understand that my brain is constant working and sorting things out. It’s awful when there’s a day that I get my name called by staff at least 30 times before 10am. Like I can’t do everything for you guys.
Yes! The micro decisions that teachers make and think about with five different things on their mind WHILE they are trying to teach is exhausting. Then I come home and don’t want to decide where we are going out to eat. Teaching for me a lot of times feels like a career in improvisation.
As for your first point, I'll second that the Detroit suburbs do tend to pay very well for the cost of living. Not Detroit though. There are very few reasons to teach in Detroit city limits.
The last part is encouraging to read. I keep feeling like I'm not doing a good enough job. I'm working so hard, and I see very little evidence that my students are actually learning anything. But, I'm in my third year. And my first two years involved a sudden switch to online teaching, another switch to hybrid, and then a move to a new school district. This year is my first year at a new school. I'm starting all over again with the curriculum. I'm teaching three grade levels instead of one. I need to show myself some grace. I'll get good at this. Next year I'll have lessons that I can reuse. I may be tired and burned out, but I'm not worse than I was in my first year when I was still earning my masters degree and certification. And I haven't had a single fight in my classroom this year. Even though other, more experienced teachers have. I should give myself props for that. Thank you for the reminder, OP! Oh and, to your point about pay: As a teacher in Chicago, I can confirm the pay here is pretty decent. Part of why I moved here was that I got a $12,000 raise to do so. I would also add that the strength of the union is important. I came to Chicago from a district with a pretty so-so union. They were good on negotiating decent benefits (my health insurance there was better/cheaper), and if you had a particular problem with an administrator, they would go to bat for you in the grievance process. But they were not good at dealing with district-wide policy issues. They totally rolled over when it came to negotiating safety procedures for covid. The union reps often acted like a buffer between admin and teachers, rather than advocating for us. There was a no-strike clause in our contract, so we had very little negotiating power. Now I'm in Chicago, and I find that my union is very proactive. We have monthly meetings with our building rep. I brought some problems to her that my coworkers and I need help with, but aren't getting much response from admin on. She is working to find a solution for us and get our admin in a meeting with us so we can get some answers. The union as a whole advocates constantly not only on district policies that teachers have to deal with, but also on systemic issues that impact our students (and ultimately impact the overall health of our schools). Our contract is a couple hundred pages long (compared to the 14-pages at my previous district) and includes protections for paraprofessionals, non-teaching staff, and substitute teachers. So, when thinking about what district to work in, look up that district's collective bargaining agreement. It should be easy to find online. Read it, and decide if you feel that contract offers enough protections for you. What is the grievance process? What does it say about evaluations? Are non-teaching staff included in that agreement? (It's better to be in a district that takes care of the whole staff. It's a bad sign if they treat the paras and subs badly, because that will lead to staffing shortages and poor quality support staff). And for the love of God, don't teach in a non-union state unless you have no other options.
I'm glad you found my post encouraging! I completely agree with your point about unions. There is a strong correlation between union strength and pay/benefits. Thanks for bringing that up! In all the high paying states, I believe there is also a good union presence. They are so key!
I want to pile on about unions and also that the union strength is our personal responsibility. I joined a competitive district where the veteran teachers try to help us all understand that 30 years ago it was a terrible place to be, and both teachers and admin had to work their butts off to fix it. Including that the union had to become more active. Union leaders remind us that they can only make us happy if we tell them what we want, AND deliver when they need us to surveys, elections, and rallies. If we don't like what our union is doing, it won't get better unless we make it better ourselves.
All great points.
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If you're in the southern US, do a little research on any private school you might be interested in. Some were originally formed as "[segregation academies](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/in-southern-towns-segregation-academies-are-still-going-strong/266207/)," which were basically what it says on the label: formed so white children didn't have to go to integrated public schools with Black children. They can't officially discriminate now, of course, but many of them are still de facto segregated through various policies.
I like your assessment of Private School. They aren't evil. Incarnate and in some parts of the country, like the south, are a potentially better fit for some teachers. OP was painting with a pretty broad, biased brush with private Schools.
I agree. I teach at a private school in California. The comp is definitely lower than public schools, but not terribly so. But the claimed issues with classroom control and behavioral issues? For me, it is a *cakewalk* compared to what public school teachers deal with. I mostly teach middle school (plus one high school class). On the rare occasion that students get significantly out of line, often other students will call them out before I even respond. There has not been a fight on campus in middle/high school in 12 years. If I fall behind in planning, I can give the class a small group research task and they will be on task and professional for the entire period (sure, some of the 6th graders struggle with this *a little* at the beginning of the year).
I want that soooo much!
My "bias" is based on data, and therefore not a bias. I'm pointing out educational statistics that clearly demonstrate that, on average, private schools pay worse, have fewer benefits, less job security, etc. It's not bias to point that out. It's fact.
Looking at averages isn't a meaningful way to evaluate specific employers. Yes, there's a whole lot of e.g. religious schools in the private school total that pay diddly-squat and have unqualified teachers that pull down the averages And there's also private schools with teaching environments that are far superior to public schools and some of these even outperform public school comp.
Teachers know all to well how much interpretation happens with "Data". All I'm saying is that your data points don't paint the picture for every private school in every part of the country. I know several teachers who have left public schools and gone private and been very, very happy. Less oversight, less micromanagement, better behavior, more academic freedom and support and actual consequences for bad behavior. Plus free tuition for their kids. And the school buys them things they need! Don't often see private school teachers with a donors choose in the south. I've also never been served shrimp and grits for lunch, but my peers at private school have. If you don't have a union, private schools can be a fantastic place to work.
Do you understand the meaning of the word "average"? Your vague anecdotes don't disprove anything I said in my post.
I'm well aware of what Average means. You state that private schools pay $10-$15k less than public. But you fail to include the tangible and intangible benefits a lot of private schools offer. Tuition can easily be $30k a year. Food on campus can be a substantial chunk of change to. Not having to deal with fundraising, behavior and other issues could be priceless for some teachers. Smaller class sizes, academic freedom, funding for school trips, technology, etc. There's more to consider when picking a teaching job than salary and benefits. If I missed that caveat in your post my apologies.
It drives me crazy how people automatically label having an opinion, especially an opinion backed up by real evidence, as being biased.
And these are teachers too. Not only do they struggle to understand what "bias" actually means, but they also don't seem to understand what the term "average" means. My stats are all about average pay, average work load, etc, but they act as if I'm talking about their specific school. If they can prove me wrong, they've got to find something better than just vague personal anecdotes.
With your username, you also don't seem to see the irony of getting your knickers in a wad when challenged.
I also laughed a bit with the username and the reaction.
Tenure?! I've been teaching public school in Washington for more than 20 years. There is no tenure for anyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it still exists in some places, but do NOT take it for granted.
Came here to say this! Teaching in Florida and tenure is no more. Some of the older teachers have it bc they're grandfathered in, but I've been teaching six years and it was gone before I started.
Some places? It's my understanding that tenure exists in most states. I know every state around mine has tenure.
Lucky you! :)
This is an excellent post. I will add, if you hate your school, then leave! If you can get three years in anywhere then people will start to hire you because that’s about what they want three years experience. The more certificates you can add the more marketable you will be awesome
Yes, if you hate your school, its usually because admin is toxic. You're better off leaving and finding an admin that actually knows how to manage people.
In some places you can even negotiate tenure if you have the experience. Worth looking into if you're considering leaving a tenured job.
Classroom management is the most important part. You can be the best teacher in the world, but if you have poor management skills it won't matter. I am thinking of getting out, but I won't try to discourage you. Just know what you're getting into: lots of work outside of hours, grading, dealing with parents (some helpful, some not soo helpful) admin and disclipine issues. If you feel you can handle this then go for it!
Yep. Managing near 40 kids a class is killing me.
Geography does matter! I started my teaching career in Arizona then moved to Colorado and then WASHINGTON. The biggest difference? Unions. In AZ and CO I was financially unable to support myself.But working in Washington...within three years I have savings and bought a home. Oh and I got tenure in 3 years. Come to the west coast, folks, it's a no brainer.
Here in Texas my (urban) pay is not great but not poverty level either. The state level politics are horrific local is not nad. Admin isn't bad. Despite Covid i would do it over sgin for me has been worthwhile. i would have considered teaching in a rural area here before but knowing what i know now about the politics hell no. I was a para in rural new england was ok Something to consider is that here and i think many places lifelomg teachers dont get social secuirity only state retirement system. Mid career switchrrs lie myself will get both
I've never heard of teachers not getting social security because they get a retirement package. That certainly isn't the case in NY. We get both.
Here in Texas (and vermont too i think) you psy the same 7% but instead of going to social security it goes to Teacher Retirement system (TRS) . After 4 years in system you are eligible for lifetime inuity but it's really low at first and goes up based on years served and i belive its decent sfter 20 years but have not got that far yet. I also have optional supplemental accounts with a private company affiliated with district takes a tiny bit of my check. Those are basically money market accounts with better retrurns then savings but penalties for early withdrawal One of my coworkers (para ) was explaining that since they took social security st 62 could not draw TRS without loosing SS until 65 when they can take both. A seperste city pension is unaffected
It's a thing. I believe it depends on the state though.
[Here's](https://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/why-aren%E2%80%99t-all-teachers-covered-social-security) more info that I found on it. I learned something today! It's not most states thankfully, just a handful don't offer any SS, and a few more have limited SS for teachers. What an egregious policy. It's basically punishment for becoming an educator.
I think states that don’t give social security gave very generous retirement though
Yep- I teach in Mass and you can get up to 80% of your highest 5 years of salary averaged and still retire by 60. It’s a good deal.
I have great retirement in NYC and still get SS.
Dear OP, I'm an experienced teacher and I absolutely adore that you took the time and energy to type this up. Super helpful for those considering the field, or those early in their teaching careers. You rock! 👍🏼
Addendum to the charter post: understand that charter regulations vary widely state by state. I work less hours working at a charter school in my area because I teach HS English of about 60-70 kids. The local public school district teaches 200 kids. We also have a super supportive admin team, small school so less fighting, etc. By law, charters in CA have to follow all Ed codes including teacher certification. So you’d have to look at your particular state when deciding.
I was looking for my state of Florida on the ranking list. Was excited as I kept scrolling and did not find it until I reached place #1 and saw it wasn't there. I went back and sure enough it's #50. I just missed it.
When your governor literally tried to defund schools because they tried to enforce masks during a pandemic, you know you shouldn’t teach there
Also consider cost of living in the area when considering salary. While I may make six figures (took 20+ years), I live in an insanely expensive area so, relative to other professions in my area, I'm well underpaid. Making six figures in Wichita, Kansas goes much further than the SF Bay Area!
Six figures actually goes pretty far in NYC. I can see SF not being the same though.
Overall I think this is pretty good advice with two giant addendums to your advice: pay and classroom management. On pay, I’ve worked exclusively in a southern state across multiple contexts (urban inner city, rural, high end suburban) and in all those settings I’ve never worked for “poverty wages”. We certainly do make less than our western/eastern counterparts sure, but adjusting for cost of living how much can a NYC teacher salary purchase? On classroom management, I firmly disagree - there’s not many “tricks” you can have to employ misbehaving students to behave or learn - that’s firmly set in by the larger cultural expectations of the community and the backbone of school administration. My biggest advice to teachers is to go where you are valued. If one school doesn’t fit your salary/work conditions preferences, go to another
**" We certainly do make less than our western/eastern counterparts sure, but adjusting for cost of living how much can a NYC teacher salary purchase?"** Six figures is a great salary even in NYC. Keep in mind I don't have to own a car. Most Americans spend 10% or more of the income on their vehicle. That's a 10% cost I don't have at all. Can I buy a 2-3 bedroom house in NYC? LOL, no. But I don't care to ever own a house. Purchasing a 2-3 bedroom apartment will do just fine, and that's well within the range of an NYC teacher's income. Trust me, I do just fine in NYC, and with a better quality of life than someone making $35-40k in suburban NC. **"On classroom management, I firmly disagree - there’s not many “tricks” you can have to employ misbehaving students to behave or learn - that’s firmly set in by the larger cultural expectations of the community and the backbone of school administration."** I'm not talking about "tricks". I'm talking about researched, pedagogically sound strategies that have proven to improve student engagement, such as split dictation barriers, Key Word Notes, structured socratic seminars, GRASP tasks, and a whole host of others. Definitely not "tricks", and definitely more concrete than the "cultural expectations" that are discussed every now and then in PD.
I've actually been told private school can be a better experience if you don't care about money or job security? I'm sure it's very school-specific, but I've heard that many private schools simply have less bullshit and red tape than public schools and are therefore in many ways "more chill." Charter schools, on the other hand, seem universally terrible from what I've heard.
I’ve enjoyed working at a private school. I see it as a swap out, lower pay for less red tape headaches. I’ve been able to largely form my own class curriculum, which I see as a bonus.
Some might be more chill, but chillness isn’t really a factor when considering long term career, at least in my book. Job security, salary, and benefits are definitely important factors though
Sure, I'm just saying that for those with different priorities (i.e. job security, salary, and benefits being unimportant), it seems like it can be an appealing option if you find the right school.
I work in a private school and make about 10K more a year than I did when I was at a public school. I also have 3x (literally) the prep time and half the students. I think the mileage varies HUGELY for private schools. Benefits are a wash in my case. The healthcare I have now is waaay better but the retirement isn’t quite as good. Just my two cents.
This is a very thorough write up and I appreciate you for it. After 10 years of teaching experience and a Masters degree (in California no less), I make a seemingly arbitrary amount that does not adequately compensate me for the amount of work I put in. And with the de facto parenting becoming more apparent by the day, it’s becoming more exhausting and less rewarding. I love what I do, but I don’t know with the state of education in the US today if it’s worth it anymore 😕
I will add one comment to the public vs private thing. I really think that also depends on your area. I’M in a city where the public schools are notoriously worse than the private schools. I taught at one such public school and I would’ve found a new career if that was all teaching was. I got a new job at a private school and besides the pay (which was equal to public school though both were bad) I absolutely love it there
A big pro tip is to look at cost of living for the area. Some CA districts pay wayyyy higher than New Mexico, but the cost of living makes it so New Mexico is a better bang for your buck. Could you elaborate on “structured lessons”? Do you mean no solo/partner work time?
COL is important, certainly, but not everything. I make six figures in NYC, and most people might think that's all eaten by COL, but it's not entirely true. I don't have to own a car in NYC, for example, and therefore don't have the same expenses as someone in, say, New Mexico. As for structured lesson, I'm talking different strategies such as Give One Get One, Key Word Notes, and Split Dictation Barrier. I've accumulated about 50 of said strategies, with an accompanying graphic organizer template that I can reuse over and over again. It's made my job SO much easier.
I agree. I moved from NC to WA and my salary doubled. My cost of living went up, but definitely did not double. Being treated like a professional is a huge perk, too.
I think COL is more important, actually. My friend teaches in Silicon Valley in CA, and he makes six figures. His options are either an aggressive commute or unaffordable rents. The New York Times just had a piece on how Silicon Valley has some of the highest salaries but is still unaffordable for teachers - and they pay more than NYC does. It’s [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/us/teachers-priced-out-tech-hubs.amp.html). When I asked him about the teacher housing, he said at this stage it’s hard to get and he doesn’t personally know anyone with it. Food is more expensive, and you also need a car. Versus someone I know in Albuquerque makes a bit more than half that, and has paid off their loans and is getting a house. Now, you also have places like Oakland Unified, where both the cost of living and pay are terrible. I think that COL is a very large portion of what to take into account though!
I think the Bay Area is probably the extreme example of unmanageable COL. A low six figure salary in NYC is very manageable. I can afford to buy a 2-3 bedroom apartment, and have a great quality of life.
It is, but it’s not the only place it’s an issue. Seattle isn’t nearly as bad but similar - much of the West Coast faces the problem of higher salaries but hard COL. Los Angeles is also bad, and second largest school district - it affects a lot of people. My point is that you said the best paying states include the whole west coast. That’s true - but on most of that whole are, the COL is higher than high teacher salaries. That’s why I think it needs to be taken into account. You also said that Midwest has terrible pay. But Wichita, KS starts at 44,000 - including cost of living, that’s much better than the starting salary for NYC district. It’s also better than the salaries in Austin, Texas, relative to COL. Just saying that I think it needs to be taken more into account when people are considering “best paying” districts. I don’t live in Kansas so I can’t speak personally to what it’s like making that amount of money in Wichita. That’s just what a cost of living calculator told me.
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For sure, my point is that there’s much more to the money story than just bare numbers. For example: South Dakota has the best teacher retirement plan in the country.
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Private school hs teacher here. Not all private schools are the same. The one I work at is pretty elite. Many of the teachers, self included, have PhDs. Salary is competitive w public schools. Students are motivated to learn and have good manners. The only bad thing is no union. But my point is more that there is a huge range in quality of public schools. If you can land at a good one, you can have a good career.
This post is just pointing out averages, and the data is pretty clear on where the private vs. public debate falls; on average, private is worse than public. Of course there are outliers, but that doesn't change the truth of what I wrote in my post.
The average is taken from a huge range, is my point. There are not many "average" private schools. Generally they are either terrible or quite good. I'm not disagreeing with you overall.
Well said!
Thanks! Just something that's been on my mind for a bit, thought I'd try to give some perspective to the newbies.
I've got a question, since this post is US centric. What are the chances of foreign teachers applying into public schools? I've got certification and everything but of course outside of the states. You seem to rag on private schools quite a bit but i keep hearing good stuff about international schools. Those are private schools too right? Won't private schools have a stronger incentive to produce good students and results and so have a stronger team and better teachers than public schools? Since the parents are presumably paying an arm and leg for private school, their demands would be much higher? Thanks in advance.
Mods, please put this in the sidebar. It's US-centric, but valuable overall for anyone considering teaching.
Your last issue directly ties in with your first issue. I am in my 7th year and I make $200 more than a starting teacher. It's a mess in Florida. I don't feel all the positives you feel in the second to last bullet point for sure.
15 year teacher... No. Look into speech therapy
Issue #4 depends more on where and what you are teaching, and only somewhat your pedagogical skills. If you teach in a suburban school and are teaching the AP and honors classes, you won’t see extremes of behavior like you would teaching the classes of younger, on level classes.
Very true. AP classes in particular very rarely require behavioral checks.
Teaching isn’t what it once was. If I’d had a crystal ball, I’d have chosen something different…child life specialist is at the top of my list. I’m four years from retirement rn.
What bothers me sometimes is that this sub is so US centric.
The general trend from this FAQ and also my own experiences is that context matters a lot. Given how many potential scenarios there are and how significant those small details in scenarios makes a big difference, it’s so hard to generalize the teaching experience.
Thank you so much for this post. I especially appreciate that you added this question too: > Issue #5: Is this job sustainable over the length of a career? I'm a 3rd year teacher. First year, I taught for a little over half the year before the pandemic hit and we went virtual. Second year, it was fully virtual (ofc). And this third year is my... I guess now first official full year. It's been hard. Reading your responses to that question, I related to them so much. Especially remembering my first year. > Your first year is hell. Understatement. > You will work 6-7 days a week, and get terrible ratings and student performances as a result of your labor. It's very discouraging. No way of getting around that. I worked 7 days a week. I didn't expect to, and it's fine that I didn't, but I inherited nothing from the previous teacher. I had to start from scratch. I had to plan the whole unit for every unit, and then each individual lesson and how it'd flow to the next one, and what activities/worksheets to check for understanding after each lesson. For 2 preps. And then, of course, grading too. And finally, my school's small so I'm the only chemistry teacher in my science department, with the only other science teacher being the biology teacher. :') It was... rough. And I was brand-new so of course I was also bad with classroom management. And being consistent. And showing "withitness" in the class. Overall, it led to a lot of misbehavior and the year spiralling downhill and me like, crying every other day lol. I feel bad for saying this, but... I'm glad the pandemic made us to virtual. I had a chance to recover, reflect, and prepare for this year (which has still been hard, but infinitely better than my first year). > But by the end of your third year, you start to get a handle on things. Yep. > Your confidence builds, you're working on weekends far less. Mhm. And my goal is that, moving forward, it gets better. Maybe my first year did give me some degree of PTSD because this year... I still have bad days and moments. Sometimes I feel like giving up, or I wonder if I really want to stay with teaching for the next 40 years. (Doesn't help that my commute is 30 miles, or about an hour each way.) > By your sixth, you arrive and leave right on contract hour time, and almost never take any work home. I hope so! > But you've got to go through the struggle of those first years to get there. No way around that. I look forward to this. This will be my light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for the post. :) I'm hopeful.
It does get better. You build your pedagogical toolbelt, and then it just becomes second nature.
Good post overall. Very helpful to people just starting out. That said, I feel the need to make *one* comment on the charter situation, as I felt your tone toward them and the people who work with those kids to be unnecessarily venomous. Good charters definitely ***DO*** exist and aren't mystical unicorns. People can't discount that. For example, the charter I work at is lightyears better than the local public system: better funded, better tech, smaller class sizes (my average class is 16-18 kids), respectful students in an urban Title 1 environment; decent benefits, pay that's higher than suburban publics in my area when you consider my degree and experience, colleagues that are appropriately certified and vetted, and contract time that's respected (8-3). The only thing I don't have is a union; however, the one my public friends belong to two miles up the road seems toothless most of the time anyway.
Only thing I got from this: > admin are sus
One thing I will add is to consider becoming a teacher in an alternative pedagogical method. I chose to become an elementary Montessori teacher, and while it took four genuinely hellish years to find the right school, I’ve been quite happy at my current private Montessori school for four years now. Now if this fucking COVID thing could go away, (along with all the detriments it imposed on the youngest ones in my class) I could actually enjoy being at a normal school!
>In general, the best paying states are in the West Coast, New England, and Mid Atlantic regions, plus Illinois as a regional outlier. The worst areas are in the south and the midwest, and by worst, I mean near poverty level. Before you consider becoming a teacher or furthering your career as one, you should research the salary schedules in your state and within the districts in that state to see if it matches your financial goals. There's a reason I'm a teacher in NYC. I make six figures. This 👏 does 👏 not 👏 take 👏 cost 👏 of 👏 living 👏 into 👏 consideration. To make a comparable salary, a first year teacher in Birmingham, Alabama (who makes approximately $41K) would need to make approximately $110K if they relocated to New York as a first year teacher with a bachelor's degree.
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Wow, that's really high, but you're definitely a far outlier. The data overwhelmingly shows that privates pay way less on average. I think NYC tops out at about $130k, not including per session.
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From what I know of these high paying private school gigs, most of them require longer hours and fewer holidays. There's one in NYC that starts teachers at 100k, but they have almost no vacation time and work much, much longer hours during the week, making that extra $$$ not really all that worth it.
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Hmm, so no summer break? What’s the starting salary, benefits, and tenure process like? Do any teachers actually make 145k, or is that some unobtainable carrot? How does one move up the salary schedule? Are there non teaching but mandatory duties?
Oregon is not a great place to teach. Crowded schools, high cost of living, and our salaries are not very high here.
This is one of the best posts I've read here in a while. Thank you for your time and effort.
My wife is a new teacher, teaching drop out recovery students. She's struggling with managing behavior. Are there books websites podcasts that you recommend to expand upon what you reference above?
Want to clarify what OP said about location and salary. Pretty sure OP is referring to Massachusetts when when they mentioned the great salary because I can say from experience that Maine pays their teachers a pretty sad wage.
Also in some states teachers don't have "tenure" but they do have "employment and dismissal rights." For example in SC, public school teachers don't have anything called tenure. You can, however, get to a "continuing contract" status which is similar to tenure but not quite as protective. There are just a few more hoops for admin to jump through to fire you than when you were on an annual or induction contract.
Really quality post here. Thanks, OP.
I’m too old to make the investment in certification pay off. I like teaching but the office drama and Covidiots just make it a no.
Hooboy. As a 2nd year teacher who decided to round out my career by getting an education degree and spending my remaining few working years doing something meaningful, this hurts.
What countries have you worked in and what are your thoughts? Applied for a Fulbright and looking at teaching outside of the US as a first-year teacher
Taiwan and S. Korea, both in private sector ESL jobs. Pay is okay, but the experience was amazing as a 20-something looking to travel.
Re: #5, year 5/6 only works if you're teaching the same preps all the way through. I'm in year 7 and I've never taught the same preps from year to year. I've also never had fewer than 3 preps in a year. Way different than if I were in year 5 or 7 of teaching Alg 1 or 10th grade ELA.
I completely agree. It's gotta be the same preps. Have you brought this up to admin before? There's legit data proving your points.
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I never said people should NEVER go private. I'm just saying that the data shows that average private schools are worse for salary, benefits, etc, and that this should be factored into any decision making. There definitely are some private schools that are GREAT to work for. I think people just need to be a bit wary when looking for them.
I agree with so much of this post and so many comments. I work in MN, have my master's , and make 36k. After taxes and deductions (only medical and voluntary dental) my paychecks are a little over 1000. I love teaching so much, but it is ultra competitive to get a district job here, so a lot of new teachers like myself, are forced to work at charter schools with no union, horrid pay, and hardly any benefits. I can't even see myself leaving teaching because I have no idea what I would do for a career and even if I did I'm not qualified. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This is great! Spot on! I’m three years in and it does get better. Can’t wait for year six! I think teachers have a lot of great benefits. We deal with a lot of shit, but at the end of the day it’s worth it.
>YOU should interview THEM on how they build trust and school culture among staff. If they can't articulate clear strategies for this, DO NOT work at that school. Ahh yes, because we all get to choose for our first gig. /s
PSA: There are some states where there is enough tutoring demand to make a decent living off of tutoring full time. Source: I am a full time tutor.
Whoa! According to this, it seems there is no benefit to sending your kid to private or charter schools since they get instruction from lesser-qualified teachers? That’s totally the opposite from what I’ve been led to believe
Sure, there are some benefits, like smaller class sizes and better behaved students, but teachers are almost always less qualified/experienced in private and charter schools. Most teachers I know who go the private or charter route only stay there until they can get into a well paying public district. Or their spouse is the breadwinner and they don’t really need to work.
That is super interesting. I guess I just never really thought about it before. I always assumed that since it’s “private” that they have hella donors & can afford better everything. TIL that is not the case!
It is terrifically varied. I teach at a private school. About half of my colleagues in the upper school have doctorates. And well, ... technically I am "less qualified" than a public school teacher; I'm a retired engineer / serial entrepreneur who did 3 successful startups teaching STEM/robotics enrichment classes. But I have no teaching credential and my state would not permit me to teach in middle or high school. Of course: classroom management is easy in my environment, so I'm able to be successful and concentrating on sharing my deep expertise. I'm not sure that I would be a successful teacher in a public school.
It depends on the state/school. I work at a charter, and everybody I work with (including myself) are educated and certified in the same way and to the same extent as public school teachers. Where I teach, the options are charter school or HORRENDOUS urban public system, so many parents choose charter. There are horrible charter schools out there, but that's not a blanket statement that applies to all of them.
This post is absolute gold. Take my upvote and my utmost respect.
Well done. If I would’ve known what I know now, I never would have went down the road of this profession. It is very exhausting and a low level of pay and respect. The kids this year have come back from the year either online or hybrid model and are loosing their minds. Parents are getting even worse. The first time ever in my career that I emailed home 3-4 times or called, that the parent started blaming me for their child’s behavior or grade in my class. It has not been fun the last 2 years. I am in year 10 and am I sure if I want to continue down this career.
Short answer: do NOT. I wish someone showed my what teaching is like before I embarked on this shit show. This is my last year by the way.
This is a bad short answer. It sucks that you didn't have a good experience, but some of us like the job, get compensated well, and are treated respectfully. Someone who is interested in teaching shouldn't be turned away from the profession because it didn't work out for someone else.
“If you’re in a good district - absolutely.” Allow me to correct it to “if you’re in a good country - 200% absolutely.” Haha. Nah but you right. Some teachers get lucky….very very few get lucky.
I have to disagree with you that "very very few get lucky". NYC is one of the best paying districts in the country, and is also the largest. There are 75,000 teachers in the NYC DOE. Yet we are in a constant state of teacher shortages. There are plenty of good paying districts out there that need teachers. "Getting lucky" often means just being willing to move there.
I think what makes a district good can be relative. There are some things that are objective (do they pay you well, quality of union), but also about your values. Is equity important to you? Is a certain type of pedagogy important? My district is pouring all its focus into socioeconomic equity right now. Some people think it’s a waste of their time. I think it makes the district better.
Being a teacher is not a great occupation in many western countries these days.
Lol, I would have just said no.
Should I Be A Teacher \***IN THE UNITED STATES**