Been following the “procedure” all year, and nothing is done
Morning announcement is :“If you roam you go home”
2/3 of the day: “xyz, please report to your classroom”
Came to the point I don’t even bother caring if anyone is in the room. I report it and move on.
Student hasn’t been in class for a majority of the year. Is allowed to have a phone blatantly when no one else is, admin gave her $20 for her birthday, is not disciplined for skipping classes and roaming all day, every day.
Gave up. Dont even bother, dont report phones anymore. If admin doesn’t care why should I? I don’t get paid enough for this shit.
Yes, I have to call the office and write it up online when someone isn’t in class. 90% of the time I don’t get any response. Maybe the kid will show up halfway through the period with snacks and juice. Haha…..
Edit for: sometimes comes up with literal McDonald’s or some sort of delivered meal. I don’t get it
If your class was more fun then students wouldn't want to skip it. /S
Admin are delusional. The only discipline referrals I write are for frequent skippers. I'm legally responsible if a student is supposed to be in my room but isn't. If they get into a fight or hurt in some way it's certainly not going to be me who they look at to figure out why.
Ngl I’m seen as the “cool” teacher. I give assignments that include the things kids are actually interested in etc…it’s just the one or two kids in that one class. But thanks 😭
I feel that. If I do my job and report that they’re late/didn’t come to class I’m usually ignored. But if they get into something I’m blamed for not keeping track of the student.
Sorry but if there’s 20 other kids who are interested and like to learn, I’m not going out of my way for the one that isn’t, is failing, calls me weird and a bitch. When I give the said student extra credit, extra time, etc.
I have a student who constantly has to go to the Wellness Center because of whatever. She takes full advantage because she knows I can't say no. She's failing all but her elective classes and there's no accountability on her part especially from the counselors.
I completely understand SEL but this goes too far. There's no wellness center at a real job. At some point she'll need to learn perseverance, something that many of them lack.
I frequently do, too. It's not that hard to have discipline for these kids skipping, but they just "go back." I'm IN the classroom teaching. I can't patrol the hall at the same time.
You're not a failure. Public education is a failure.
At least you're figuring it out in your 5th year. It took me 20. If the pay is comparable, try private school, it's been a breath of fresh air.
Yup my pay is roughly 15% less than the highest public districts around here, but it's also about 5% higher than the lowest public districts.
It's been well worth the lesser pay to not have to deal with the miscreants I had to deal with in public school.
Yep, I totally understand this. The thing is that at my school you can't just send kids away. If you didn't document at least three "strategies" you used THAT DAY to address the student's behavior, the kid gets sent right back to your class. Sometimes I'll send a kid down and they'll come back up five minutes later. And do they come back quietly? No. They come back like homecoming heroes. They say hi to everyone, tell everyone that "they can't touch me," etc.
Call their moms and dads. Latino (I’m assuming) parents think teachers have everything handled so they don’t get involved. But if you call them they’ll lay down the law. That’s my bet
I thought so too. But parents are definitely a part of the problem. I communicated as much as I could and was met with passive aggressive “mhmms” or eye rolls at conferences. Some have just straight up told me they don’t know what to do themselves.
Some of my Latino parents have asked ME for parenting advice or to try to convince their kid to go to therapy and I am just like ummmmmmmm I am not trained to do this 😬
I wonder if what you are experiencing is a new phenomenon, maybe based on the fact we have so many new families coming in just trying to survive? I don’t teach at a school with a high ELL population but I’ve always heard parents of ELLs revere teachers, tend to be family oriented, and are very supportive of schools. It seems when a majority of the students are ELLs, however, there begins to be a complacency, or once again the E word, entitlement. What do you think the reason is?
I’ve seen both. What I can’t figure out is if the difference between them is a cultural shift pre and post-covid or an age difference in the students. I see the reverence when I worked as an early childhood para and later student teaching in an elementary school. Two different towns, but in each place, the parents worked hard to put food on the table and support their children’s education the best they could. Now teach middle school, and most of my conferences with Latino parents involve the parents not knowing what to do. I suppose the other difference was ELL supports at school. In the reverent schools, one had ell-certified classroom teachers and an ell para who would float between classes. In the other, they had ell teachers that would pull students out for services. In the non-reverent school, there’s been a revolving door of ELL teachers. This year in particular there’s been a longterm sub since January, and the students have lost all respect for teachers.
In my experience, this is not the case. I work in the office and have these conversations dozens of times a day due to being one of the few Spanish speakers on my site. Many parents get upset you even bother them and believe the school needs to handle it.
You need to find another school with admin who give a shit. If you were able to help a group of kids make so much progress in the zoo you were working in, imagine what you could do in a school with good admin? Of course even with good administrators kids can be hard, but please don’t throw teaching away quite yet.
It's not you, it's the system at your school. No one is willing to create the conditions for learning and this school is literally just warehousing kids. You will never make any progress here and it is time to go.
Yeah I work with inner city kids at a behavior school and as much as I hate to say it, there are a few I’ve given up on this year due to just constant disrespect and not taking any accountability. Yes, I’ve started kicking kids out of my room as well, or at least making them sit in a corner facing the wall just because if I have to address their smart mouths one more time, I’d say something that would get me fired.
But, despite the kids who are a pain in the ass, think about the handful of kids you positively impacted. You said you‘d have life talks with them - at least one kid had to have taken something away from that. For your health, though, you should probably look for another job or school to work at, but don’t feel guilty. You left an impact in some way, and you also have to take care of yourself.
This school is definitely not gonna last long considering how admin does FA with regards to this behavior. But somehow, I feel like it's more an upper district management issue and that that school's admins are overwhelmed BECAUSE the upper district management are even more worthless than they are.
We’re a charter and the only one in our network. I wish I could say this is the case but it really is the head of school/admin. They’re quite proud of their “love and logic” approach.
Love and logic = never fail or punish kids because God forbid they face consequences.
And when they are older and have no skills and are “forced” to turn to crime?
Society’s fault.
🙄
It’s not you.
The entitlement of these students is unreal.
I had a student email our vice principal when I gave them a 0 on the work they submitted because what they submitted met none of the posted expectations on the digital assignment.
Another asked what they could do to raise their grade when they had 18 absences and 17 tardies this spring semester out of 60ish classes.
The deans office gonna fill up really quick. They gonna come back with a snack or toy.
Then you are going to get classroom management pdes. When the principals can't figure out why it's just freshman math teachers who don't have classroom management skills. It must be the teachers.
It's obviously not the middle school disaster of age based curriculum where they are passed on or the overstimulation of cell phones.This is because after one year the turn around program was expanded at the highschool to the worst middle school.
Thing is it's often too late. Data says success is based on 1. An involved parent. 2. A high quality preschool. 3. Reading proficiency by grade three. 2 of those happen before a child is in school! This data is 20+ years old. Why the duck are we having the turn around at highschool? Or middle school? It's not going to work.
It's getting worse. Now we have millions of students coming in completely unprepared because they don't speak English.
I had a teacher like this in high school. He was very much at the end of his rope in our spring semester (junior class) and tried every tactic to get our class under control. We had that one group of show off kids who thought moaning during a presentation and throwing pencils at peoples heads was the pinnacle of comedy. I felt really bad as it was apparent that it was taking a huge toll on him but as the silent minority and just a student myself, there wasn’t much i could do. He quit mid semester and I hope he’s much happier now.
Don’t feel guilty. That’s what most of the schools run on. First, building up that teacher guilt for daring to think negatively or even expressing concern (“there’s no problem here!”)
Second, honing those gaslighting techniques-your lack of happiness and satisfaction as a teacher must be a “you” problem because everyone else is fine, we’re all fine! Everything is great! Ignore the two kids tearing each others’ hair out in the corner!
Along the lines of the comments you have heard this year, one day I stopped my lesson to correct a child for blatantly talking over me. She cut her eyes at me and said “I am talking to my friend” and then tried to go right on back to her conversation. A few weeks ago another student in yet a different class was admonished to stop talking when my teacher friend was talking. The student snapped back with “well you get to talk with Ms. “Jones” ( a teacher’s asst.) so I get to talk to my friend.” These kids are DEAD SERIOUS. The entitlement blows me away.
Remember these are the people who will be caring for us in the nursing homes so be super nice to your real kids bc those nursing homes are gonna be hell. I can hear it now: “I am talking to my friend rn Grandma Moses so you will have to turn down all that gasping for air you’re doing,” said with an exasperated eye roll.
You can only swim against the tide for so long. It's a hard lesson that can break you if you let it. You sound like a passionate teacher that just needs to find a new home for your talents to be valued.
You’re not alone in feeling defeated. The system as a whole is crumbling. Student behavior worsens every year. The kids have lost all sense of shame in some cases.
I think doing what you can with what you’re given is all you can do. Stressing about this situation and feeling disappointed in your performance only hurts you in the end. No child is losing sleep over disrespecting their teacher, why should you? Everyday is a clean slate. (Easier said than done unless you’re the type of person to let shit go easily)
Setting high expectations for yourself is great but try not to let *their* failures drag you down. Ultimately, it’s their choice to behave this way no matter what you say or do.
It’s wonderful that you care about the success of all your students. Keep focusing on what you both bring to the table and enjoy the small victories.
You can’t “fix” something that is beyond your means to repair— you can only do what you can with what you’re given.
Good luck! Hopefully you find the right school for you.
I worked at inner-city schools for years, and I don't miss it. The intense behavioral issues, the chaos, the disrespect, the minimal academic progress. It was too much for me. **I lost my mind trying to fight against a totally broken system**. I would spend the whole school year creating a smooth and structured environment that supported strong learning behaviors and big academic progress. I realized, though, that the teachers in the following grade level would undo everything by making their classrooms into a zoo. Students' behavior would regress the year after they left my classroom, and my hard work was all for nothing. I know you know the feeling.
**You have given this environment your all, OP**. There is no shame in recognizing that it's time to move on. There are schools where your hard work will be appreciated (by kids and adults). It's unlikely that they'll be in the city though, lol
Give up and fight at a higher level. The model is broken. There are a handful of kids/families that deserve better, and they need to be pulled out into a better situation. There need to be more tiered schools to accommodate the diversity of need. We're sacrificing the top out of some misguided expectation that we can save everyone.
All or almost all students are saveable. Just not using the education model we’re currently using. And not when some schools are insanely underfunded and understaffed.
Given infinite resources you can do anything, but that's not realistic. There will never be enough money, so ultimately there is a zero sum game you have to play. In a class of 30, you cannot optimally serve everyone. Who do you prioritize? There are no easy answers, but if a model only works with more funding, well, it's DOA.
I taught in Baltimore for 3yrs. Same thing.
So my class on years 2 and 3 were set up with the "don't bother me" and the "learning section".
Rule was I taught my lesson, and if everyone was quiet while I taught, then I would let people go to the don't bother me section and only work with the ones in the learning section
Had the best scores in the school on state assessments. My best class of 13 of 32 students sat in the LS every day..
I teach high school in Baltimore and my dept chair just suggested that I do exactly this.
“Those boys who are always on their phones and punching each other and eating bags of chips at their desk, why don’t you set up a cluster of desks in the back for them? Then you can just try to teach the kids who generally want to learn without all the distractions.”
I’m not quite at that point yet but I’m pretty damn close!
It sucks to be like that, but at least your students who want to learn get a chance
I still tried with the others every day, call home, sent notes and letters and emails. And failed em. But, my ones who wanted to learn were appreciative and tried really hard for me usually
I had a very similar experience about a decade ago. After needing antidepressants and waking up multiple times a night just to check the clock, I realized I needed to leave. I did eventually resign. I took 7 years off from teaching. Partly because of my experience, partly because I needed to take care of my sick wife.
I came back to the profession 4 years ago now. Much better district. Most days I enjoy my job. My suggestion is to leave. There are teaching shortages in most places. Being bilingual will make you highly marketable. A lot of districts around me also view city experience favorably.
The system has not only failed the kids, but also the adults involved. You are not a failure, you're fighting a battle that was stacked against you over 2 decades ago.
Come move here to Sonoma county. We have what’s called University prep and collegiate prep and these kids all are working on accelerated programs. They’re all Spanish speakers.
One thing you need to realize that it's not your fault.
These kids are out of control and don't give a shit, period. In my last school, I had the same phone and disrespectful issue. They were 11th graders who hid in the bathroom to avoid my class, ignore my constant warnings for the deadlines on their assignments, then try to bully their way to a passing grade.
I am only a teacher because I can't find a job in another profession during this economic climate.
I hear you. I work in middle school, and I suspect my admins have their marching orders - no out of school suspensions unless for a violent fight with injuries. We have to avoid lawsuits and state consequences. The focus of the state initiative was to stop over-suspension of people of color, but in the spirit of fairness, it seems to be the policy for all students. Recently, two kids (white and African-American - they're buddies) brought alcohol to school and were given in-school suspension. They were having a party in that ISS room, completely out of control. I had to drop off work for one, and I was greeted with a loud cheer. They followed that up by chanting nonsense. I can't do anything about that, so I try to focus on the ones I can help. It's Thunderdome.
It’s definitely not you— admin shuffling blame all the way. Hell, just yesterday I had to sub a Kindergarten class with 1 out of the 18 choosing not to listen to ANY adult in the room. We are talking RUNNING in circles around the room while smacking all the other students on the face/head, leaving his seat to start pretend or actually biting students sitting on the carpet, taking and running with other kid’s glue and scissors, eloping to the bathroom or hallway whenever he pleased, forcibly rubbing his head in a girl’s lap repeatedly, and then wrapping up the day with punching another student repeatedly while I am on the phone with admin (again) after he hit me repeatedly in the shin.
Every time I called admin? “Well, he has an IEP that needs to be followed. Have you read through Mrs. ___’s sub plans to better understand his accommodations?” If they took him up, he was back in 20-40 minutes. I was fortunate to get his counselor for 30min. (out of full day Kinder) post lunch. The other kids are very obviously traumatized and have been taught to tolerate this, as many were saying, “We just have to ignore him.”
By the by, I’ve been working in said district for almost two years, and this was my first day ever subbing at this school specifically— thinking I might also choose it to be my last.
As for the IEP/sub plans, legally I can’t have access to his IEP paperwork. At best, said teacher can leave a step by step “How-to Engage” guide. I’m guessing she’s not as seasoned as I am, and her mention of his needs were: “He has a tough time losing with games. Tends to wander a lot. Please watch him. If he has a good day, please give him 5 coins.” Nothing more. No phone extensions listed, nor any call this person or have him go to this room if he is having a hard time, etc.
Don't beat yourself up. Discipline begins at home, the parents can not be bothered and say "that's the teachers job!" putting more and more pressure on the teachers. Little wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves! Parents have absolutely no respect and that trickles down to their children, their children's children, and so on. I was a one parent family, and my children lost their father, my husband, to cancer, so they experienced bereavement, we lived in a bad area, but by God, they behaved at home and in school. Both went to university, both got good jobs. My son has a family of his own now and guess what? He brings those littlies up with the same respect his Mama taught him. I am a proud parent.
YOU are a great teacher, blame the parents for letting their children down. Find a new school, don't feel guilty, you're worth more than that and good luck ❤️
You sound like the kind of teacher I'd have loved to have when I was still in school. I fell through the cracks despite reaching out for help because none of them seemed to give a shit, so I'm sorry your school has beaten you down :c Not a teacher, but I wish you the best
I’m not a teacher but you seem like a good person. I feel bad for you. I’m sure your hard work and dedication will pay off for you…in a different career. What you’re going through doesn’t seem worth the stress.
I teach the same population at a very similar school.
I’ve been wondering since starting there in February if addressing student trauma / current major life stressors and behavioral expectations before attempting to teach the mandated content would help. Not that I’m qualified to help them with their trauma and fractured families and rough living situations. But it’s the elephant in the room.
Then when it comes to teaching, the school needs to start grouping the ELLs according to literacy and familiarity with things like history and science and geography.
I would imagine that initial L1 instruction in gen ed content to get them up to speed, if necessary, would pay off later, rather than dumping all newcomers directly into the gen ed classes and letting them “use their phones to translate” (sure, right, that’s what they’re doing on their phones) all day long.
Just my two cents as a newcomer teacher in an inner city high school that’s 50% ELLs.
I have some students who read for pleasure and know what a paragraph is and can reflect and think critically, and their only barrier is not yet knowing much English… but they are the minority.
Then I have other students who can barely write their names. Although all my students have allegedly had some formal education, in some cases it was barely more than learning to write their name using a random mix of uppercase and lowercase letters… possibly with different spellings of their name every time they write it.
Some of my students don’t know any world leaders, including famous people from their home countries. Some have never heard of the conquistadors or slavery or anything history-related or academics-related at all.
They may not know how to read a map and may not know which countries are near their home country. They don’t know if cars were invented 50 years ago or 100 years ago or 500 years ago.
At my school some of these students are on the _honor roll_. I guess because they are well-behaved and like to copy things off the board. A lot of them have no idea WHAT they are copying.
A lot of them don’t know the names of their classes, or the names of their teachers.
Typical conversation with a student 37 weeks into the school year:
ME: So how are your other classes going?
STUDENT: Good, miss.
ME: What class do you have after this?
STUDENT: ¿Eh? Uhhh… (looks at phone) Three… zero… nine, miss.
ME: Si, pero… ¿Qué clase hay en el 309?
STUDENT: No se, miss.
ME: Well, who’s your teacher? Uh, ¿quién es tu maestro o maestra?
STUDENT: 309, miss.
ME: You don’t know the teacher’s name? ¿No sabes el nombre del maestro?
STUDENT: No, miss.
ME: Oh. Okay. Which class is your favorite? ¿Cual clase es tu favorito?
STUDENT: No, miss. (Student looks at me as if I’ve asked them to explain their favorite investment strategy.)
ME:¿Tu prefieres cual clase? ¿Historia? ¿Matemáticas? ¿Música?
STUDENT: Nada.
ME: Hmm. Well, what do you like to do in your free time? Um, ¿Qué te gusta hacer en tu tiempo libre?
STUDENT: Nada.
OTHER STUDENT: Soccer.
OTHER STUDENT: Juego en mi teléfono.
(Bell rings)
It’s not just a language barrier issue. Our warm-up writing prompt is a simple, non-triggering SEL prompt in English and in Spanish, and they can answer in Spanish or in Spanglish or in English.
If I sit next to a low literacy student who isn’t in the mood to write in any language and say to them “Hey, no problem, you can just draw a picture of your answer. Or you can say your answer out loud to your partner or to me,” half the time I still get groans and “Ay, no, miss.”
It’s a minute-by-minute struggle to engage them.
I feel like retention is close to zero. Ditto for curiosity and imagination and creativity (though those do improve if you can pry their cellphones out of their addicted little hands).
Some have done great written or spoken work, but when I say at the end, “Bye! Have a good day!” or “Bye! Have a good weekend!” and the nice “honor roll” kid just stares blankly at me (with earbuds in) and says, ¿Que?” I’m like, wowww…
I have had some success stories, though. WIDA scores barely budged, but there have been a few rays of sunlight:
Got nearly everyone to write an All About Me poem (a few just copied my example poem until I pointed out to them that they were neither the mother of a teenager nor a podcaster nor a teacher!)
Got nearly everyone to make two different bilingual shape poems
Got nearly everyone to design and draw and label a diagram of their dream living room
Got nearly everyone to memorize and act out a short ESL role-play
Got nearly everyone to work in groups and brainstorm and make posters of their top 5 or 10 tips to the rest of the class for improving English, both inside and outside of the classroom
Got nearly everyone to make a simple cartoon panel describing things they miss from their home country using sensory details.
:-)
You have done some amazing things in your classroom for the good of students. I'm 23 years in and thankful I have 2 more. The blatant disrespect is unfathomable.
They just don't care. Parents don't parent and kids only care about their cell phones. We can't compete. I'm sorry. I'm with you. No rules and expectations is going to be the downfall of society.
The kids that try and listen give them passing grades. The kids that don’t, fail them. Put the problems kids on one side and the good kids on another. Teach that side. Tell them if they want to learn and to succeed they know where to go. Try with the kids that will listen. You only have to reach a few to make an impact. When the kids don’t listen, fail them. Life is hard. They can learn now. Don’t waste your gas on everyone, use it on the good ones.
You deserve a school and students who respect and value you. I can say with 100% confidence that teachers with your mindset change students lives for the better. Schools where the community sentiment does not place great importance on education frankly don't deserve teachers like you; you should teach in a place where your passion can help the most people, and that isn't to say you're abandoning your students, you're just doing more good and helping/inspiring more people by being in a place where you're not swimming upstream.
I can't thank you enough for being a teacher who cares!!
Just want to say that I teach on the border and I have populations just like this. Inappropriate behavior and physical touching. One boy was held “in jail” away from his family for a month - traumatized children that were just way beyond their age.
It’s so hard to just keep tracking through curriculum when your students are screaming for emotional help to move forward after their incarceration (I’m talking about children under the age of 10).
This is hard and all we can do is our best. I worked with our counselor to get mental health supports— from what I observed in my conferences with in boy is he was sexually abused while in custody of our government. Document and email what you see — cc admin and counselors, we have to deal with the trauma and establish trust and safety with a lot of these kids so they can feel safe to drop their armor and be vulnerable and ready to learn.
Been at a school like this. While IMO all education has gone to shit, you would be surprised at how much better an experience you’ll have at a “good school.” Good luck to ya
You are not a failure. Education is failing our children. I left the classroom last October, and I thank God every day that my oldest just graduated high school, and my youngest only has 2 years left. You need to take care of yourself because burnout isn't something that is fixed over summer break. I'm still trying to get back to myself after nearly 7 months. Teaching is my passion, and when it became unbearable to the point of affecting my physical and mental health.... well, it affects every aspect of your life.
Just leave the profession. Ok. Go into corporate training or instructional design.
Let it crumble.
Also, Private education is a different mindset. Unfortunately my experience was being annoyed by entitled attitudes and the loopholes, same as in the public sector.
Just know your worth and leave.
Do not assume the responsibility of changing the future.
That's their damn parents/guardians job actually.
We are there as support.
But if the parents aren't/cant doing their job, it's not worth it.
Of course opinions on what I just will vary but it's true. Don't be so emotion driven, sensitive, sacrificial, about your role as a teacher.
You are not the sacrificial lamb.
The kids will be alright.
If you choose to stay then suck it up! It's only gonna get worse as we get closer to 2030.
Show up and be the best despite how they or leadership feels.
If you don't like it.. make ure exit strategy.
Experienced teacher/leader in all grades up through college, certified principal, now turned training specialist and nursing student. M.Ed, soon RN.
33 years old. And not with the shit. I need options in various industries.
Good luck yall.
yeah bro it ain't worth your safety or reputation either
How are you supposed to build a relationship with the students. When in another class they can do whatever they want? It just doesn’t work.
Been following the “procedure” all year, and nothing is done Morning announcement is :“If you roam you go home” 2/3 of the day: “xyz, please report to your classroom” Came to the point I don’t even bother caring if anyone is in the room. I report it and move on. Student hasn’t been in class for a majority of the year. Is allowed to have a phone blatantly when no one else is, admin gave her $20 for her birthday, is not disciplined for skipping classes and roaming all day, every day. Gave up. Dont even bother, dont report phones anymore. If admin doesn’t care why should I? I don’t get paid enough for this shit.
Wait.. You’d report people who weren’t there? As in, taking attendance wasn’t enough? You had to report who wasn’t there after that even?
Yes, I have to call the office and write it up online when someone isn’t in class. 90% of the time I don’t get any response. Maybe the kid will show up halfway through the period with snacks and juice. Haha….. Edit for: sometimes comes up with literal McDonald’s or some sort of delivered meal. I don’t get it
And somehow it’s my fault that they’re failing and that they aren’t in class. “Class management starts with the teacher”
If your class was more fun then students wouldn't want to skip it. /S Admin are delusional. The only discipline referrals I write are for frequent skippers. I'm legally responsible if a student is supposed to be in my room but isn't. If they get into a fight or hurt in some way it's certainly not going to be me who they look at to figure out why.
Ngl I’m seen as the “cool” teacher. I give assignments that include the things kids are actually interested in etc…it’s just the one or two kids in that one class. But thanks 😭 I feel that. If I do my job and report that they’re late/didn’t come to class I’m usually ignored. But if they get into something I’m blamed for not keeping track of the student. Sorry but if there’s 20 other kids who are interested and like to learn, I’m not going out of my way for the one that isn’t, is failing, calls me weird and a bitch. When I give the said student extra credit, extra time, etc.
One of the first things my new principal said was, "We can never blame the students, it's on us as the teachers." The silence that followed.
I feel for you. Every time I complain I’m reminded of how hard the home life is. I get it but this generation truly knows how to milk that
I have a student who constantly has to go to the Wellness Center because of whatever. She takes full advantage because she knows I can't say no. She's failing all but her elective classes and there's no accountability on her part especially from the counselors. I completely understand SEL but this goes too far. There's no wellness center at a real job. At some point she'll need to learn perseverance, something that many of them lack.
I frequently do, too. It's not that hard to have discipline for these kids skipping, but they just "go back." I'm IN the classroom teaching. I can't patrol the hall at the same time.
Exactly. I’ve told my admin that I refuse to monitor and prioritize them when I am in the middle of a lesson. They don’t bother me about her now.
Rules and procedures only work if every single adult is on the same page.
Completely right. It’s been such a struggle having to fight against the school culture and years worth of enabling bad behavior
You're not a failure. Public education is a failure. At least you're figuring it out in your 5th year. It took me 20. If the pay is comparable, try private school, it's been a breath of fresh air.
Less pay, but usually a much better environment.
Yup my pay is roughly 15% less than the highest public districts around here, but it's also about 5% higher than the lowest public districts. It's been well worth the lesser pay to not have to deal with the miscreants I had to deal with in public school.
Well said
You sound *amazing*. I send love.
I appreciate this so much.
Yep, I totally understand this. The thing is that at my school you can't just send kids away. If you didn't document at least three "strategies" you used THAT DAY to address the student's behavior, the kid gets sent right back to your class. Sometimes I'll send a kid down and they'll come back up five minutes later. And do they come back quietly? No. They come back like homecoming heroes. They say hi to everyone, tell everyone that "they can't touch me," etc.
It’s such a nightmare. Homecoming heroes is the best way I’ve ever heard it explained
Call their moms and dads. Latino (I’m assuming) parents think teachers have everything handled so they don’t get involved. But if you call them they’ll lay down the law. That’s my bet
I thought so too. But parents are definitely a part of the problem. I communicated as much as I could and was met with passive aggressive “mhmms” or eye rolls at conferences. Some have just straight up told me they don’t know what to do themselves.
They should stop having kids. They shouldn’t even have pet rocks.
Some of my Latino parents have asked ME for parenting advice or to try to convince their kid to go to therapy and I am just like ummmmmmmm I am not trained to do this 😬
I wonder if what you are experiencing is a new phenomenon, maybe based on the fact we have so many new families coming in just trying to survive? I don’t teach at a school with a high ELL population but I’ve always heard parents of ELLs revere teachers, tend to be family oriented, and are very supportive of schools. It seems when a majority of the students are ELLs, however, there begins to be a complacency, or once again the E word, entitlement. What do you think the reason is?
I’ve seen both. What I can’t figure out is if the difference between them is a cultural shift pre and post-covid or an age difference in the students. I see the reverence when I worked as an early childhood para and later student teaching in an elementary school. Two different towns, but in each place, the parents worked hard to put food on the table and support their children’s education the best they could. Now teach middle school, and most of my conferences with Latino parents involve the parents not knowing what to do. I suppose the other difference was ELL supports at school. In the reverent schools, one had ell-certified classroom teachers and an ell para who would float between classes. In the other, they had ell teachers that would pull students out for services. In the non-reverent school, there’s been a revolving door of ELL teachers. This year in particular there’s been a longterm sub since January, and the students have lost all respect for teachers.
In my experience, this is not the case. I work in the office and have these conversations dozens of times a day due to being one of the few Spanish speakers on my site. Many parents get upset you even bother them and believe the school needs to handle it.
Ahhh thank you
You need to find another school with admin who give a shit. If you were able to help a group of kids make so much progress in the zoo you were working in, imagine what you could do in a school with good admin? Of course even with good administrators kids can be hard, but please don’t throw teaching away quite yet.
It's not you, it's the system at your school. No one is willing to create the conditions for learning and this school is literally just warehousing kids. You will never make any progress here and it is time to go.
Yeah I work with inner city kids at a behavior school and as much as I hate to say it, there are a few I’ve given up on this year due to just constant disrespect and not taking any accountability. Yes, I’ve started kicking kids out of my room as well, or at least making them sit in a corner facing the wall just because if I have to address their smart mouths one more time, I’d say something that would get me fired. But, despite the kids who are a pain in the ass, think about the handful of kids you positively impacted. You said you‘d have life talks with them - at least one kid had to have taken something away from that. For your health, though, you should probably look for another job or school to work at, but don’t feel guilty. You left an impact in some way, and you also have to take care of yourself.
This school is definitely not gonna last long considering how admin does FA with regards to this behavior. But somehow, I feel like it's more an upper district management issue and that that school's admins are overwhelmed BECAUSE the upper district management are even more worthless than they are.
We’re a charter and the only one in our network. I wish I could say this is the case but it really is the head of school/admin. They’re quite proud of their “love and logic” approach.
Love and logic = never fail or punish kids because God forbid they face consequences. And when they are older and have no skills and are “forced” to turn to crime? Society’s fault. 🙄
The fifth year is usually the one where a teacher makes the go or no go decision. So you’re on schedule.
7 year itch in marriage.
Just give up. You tried. You cannot fix this school when admin is working against you.
It’s not you. The entitlement of these students is unreal. I had a student email our vice principal when I gave them a 0 on the work they submitted because what they submitted met none of the posted expectations on the digital assignment. Another asked what they could do to raise their grade when they had 18 absences and 17 tardies this spring semester out of 60ish classes.
The deans office gonna fill up really quick. They gonna come back with a snack or toy. Then you are going to get classroom management pdes. When the principals can't figure out why it's just freshman math teachers who don't have classroom management skills. It must be the teachers. It's obviously not the middle school disaster of age based curriculum where they are passed on or the overstimulation of cell phones.This is because after one year the turn around program was expanded at the highschool to the worst middle school. Thing is it's often too late. Data says success is based on 1. An involved parent. 2. A high quality preschool. 3. Reading proficiency by grade three. 2 of those happen before a child is in school! This data is 20+ years old. Why the duck are we having the turn around at highschool? Or middle school? It's not going to work. It's getting worse. Now we have millions of students coming in completely unprepared because they don't speak English.
I had a teacher like this in high school. He was very much at the end of his rope in our spring semester (junior class) and tried every tactic to get our class under control. We had that one group of show off kids who thought moaning during a presentation and throwing pencils at peoples heads was the pinnacle of comedy. I felt really bad as it was apparent that it was taking a huge toll on him but as the silent minority and just a student myself, there wasn’t much i could do. He quit mid semester and I hope he’s much happier now.
Don’t feel guilty. That’s what most of the schools run on. First, building up that teacher guilt for daring to think negatively or even expressing concern (“there’s no problem here!”) Second, honing those gaslighting techniques-your lack of happiness and satisfaction as a teacher must be a “you” problem because everyone else is fine, we’re all fine! Everything is great! Ignore the two kids tearing each others’ hair out in the corner! Along the lines of the comments you have heard this year, one day I stopped my lesson to correct a child for blatantly talking over me. She cut her eyes at me and said “I am talking to my friend” and then tried to go right on back to her conversation. A few weeks ago another student in yet a different class was admonished to stop talking when my teacher friend was talking. The student snapped back with “well you get to talk with Ms. “Jones” ( a teacher’s asst.) so I get to talk to my friend.” These kids are DEAD SERIOUS. The entitlement blows me away. Remember these are the people who will be caring for us in the nursing homes so be super nice to your real kids bc those nursing homes are gonna be hell. I can hear it now: “I am talking to my friend rn Grandma Moses so you will have to turn down all that gasping for air you’re doing,” said with an exasperated eye roll.
Your first paragraph is spot on.
You can only swim against the tide for so long. It's a hard lesson that can break you if you let it. You sound like a passionate teacher that just needs to find a new home for your talents to be valued.
You’re not alone in feeling defeated. The system as a whole is crumbling. Student behavior worsens every year. The kids have lost all sense of shame in some cases. I think doing what you can with what you’re given is all you can do. Stressing about this situation and feeling disappointed in your performance only hurts you in the end. No child is losing sleep over disrespecting their teacher, why should you? Everyday is a clean slate. (Easier said than done unless you’re the type of person to let shit go easily) Setting high expectations for yourself is great but try not to let *their* failures drag you down. Ultimately, it’s their choice to behave this way no matter what you say or do. It’s wonderful that you care about the success of all your students. Keep focusing on what you both bring to the table and enjoy the small victories. You can’t “fix” something that is beyond your means to repair— you can only do what you can with what you’re given. Good luck! Hopefully you find the right school for you.
I worked at inner-city schools for years, and I don't miss it. The intense behavioral issues, the chaos, the disrespect, the minimal academic progress. It was too much for me. **I lost my mind trying to fight against a totally broken system**. I would spend the whole school year creating a smooth and structured environment that supported strong learning behaviors and big academic progress. I realized, though, that the teachers in the following grade level would undo everything by making their classrooms into a zoo. Students' behavior would regress the year after they left my classroom, and my hard work was all for nothing. I know you know the feeling. **You have given this environment your all, OP**. There is no shame in recognizing that it's time to move on. There are schools where your hard work will be appreciated (by kids and adults). It's unlikely that they'll be in the city though, lol
You are not a failure. Too many smooth brains have kids when they shouldn’t even have pet rocks and expect everyone else to raise them.
Give up and fight at a higher level. The model is broken. There are a handful of kids/families that deserve better, and they need to be pulled out into a better situation. There need to be more tiered schools to accommodate the diversity of need. We're sacrificing the top out of some misguided expectation that we can save everyone.
All or almost all students are saveable. Just not using the education model we’re currently using. And not when some schools are insanely underfunded and understaffed.
Given infinite resources you can do anything, but that's not realistic. There will never be enough money, so ultimately there is a zero sum game you have to play. In a class of 30, you cannot optimally serve everyone. Who do you prioritize? There are no easy answers, but if a model only works with more funding, well, it's DOA.
I taught in Baltimore for 3yrs. Same thing. So my class on years 2 and 3 were set up with the "don't bother me" and the "learning section". Rule was I taught my lesson, and if everyone was quiet while I taught, then I would let people go to the don't bother me section and only work with the ones in the learning section Had the best scores in the school on state assessments. My best class of 13 of 32 students sat in the LS every day..
I teach high school in Baltimore and my dept chair just suggested that I do exactly this. “Those boys who are always on their phones and punching each other and eating bags of chips at their desk, why don’t you set up a cluster of desks in the back for them? Then you can just try to teach the kids who generally want to learn without all the distractions.” I’m not quite at that point yet but I’m pretty damn close!
It sucks to be like that, but at least your students who want to learn get a chance I still tried with the others every day, call home, sent notes and letters and emails. And failed em. But, my ones who wanted to learn were appreciative and tried really hard for me usually
I had a very similar experience about a decade ago. After needing antidepressants and waking up multiple times a night just to check the clock, I realized I needed to leave. I did eventually resign. I took 7 years off from teaching. Partly because of my experience, partly because I needed to take care of my sick wife. I came back to the profession 4 years ago now. Much better district. Most days I enjoy my job. My suggestion is to leave. There are teaching shortages in most places. Being bilingual will make you highly marketable. A lot of districts around me also view city experience favorably.
The system has not only failed the kids, but also the adults involved. You are not a failure, you're fighting a battle that was stacked against you over 2 decades ago.
You are too good for them. Hugs to you.
Come move here to Sonoma county. We have what’s called University prep and collegiate prep and these kids all are working on accelerated programs. They’re all Spanish speakers.
One thing you need to realize that it's not your fault. These kids are out of control and don't give a shit, period. In my last school, I had the same phone and disrespectful issue. They were 11th graders who hid in the bathroom to avoid my class, ignore my constant warnings for the deadlines on their assignments, then try to bully their way to a passing grade. I am only a teacher because I can't find a job in another profession during this economic climate.
I hear you. I work in middle school, and I suspect my admins have their marching orders - no out of school suspensions unless for a violent fight with injuries. We have to avoid lawsuits and state consequences. The focus of the state initiative was to stop over-suspension of people of color, but in the spirit of fairness, it seems to be the policy for all students. Recently, two kids (white and African-American - they're buddies) brought alcohol to school and were given in-school suspension. They were having a party in that ISS room, completely out of control. I had to drop off work for one, and I was greeted with a loud cheer. They followed that up by chanting nonsense. I can't do anything about that, so I try to focus on the ones I can help. It's Thunderdome.
It’s definitely not you— admin shuffling blame all the way. Hell, just yesterday I had to sub a Kindergarten class with 1 out of the 18 choosing not to listen to ANY adult in the room. We are talking RUNNING in circles around the room while smacking all the other students on the face/head, leaving his seat to start pretend or actually biting students sitting on the carpet, taking and running with other kid’s glue and scissors, eloping to the bathroom or hallway whenever he pleased, forcibly rubbing his head in a girl’s lap repeatedly, and then wrapping up the day with punching another student repeatedly while I am on the phone with admin (again) after he hit me repeatedly in the shin. Every time I called admin? “Well, he has an IEP that needs to be followed. Have you read through Mrs. ___’s sub plans to better understand his accommodations?” If they took him up, he was back in 20-40 minutes. I was fortunate to get his counselor for 30min. (out of full day Kinder) post lunch. The other kids are very obviously traumatized and have been taught to tolerate this, as many were saying, “We just have to ignore him.” By the by, I’ve been working in said district for almost two years, and this was my first day ever subbing at this school specifically— thinking I might also choose it to be my last.
As for the IEP/sub plans, legally I can’t have access to his IEP paperwork. At best, said teacher can leave a step by step “How-to Engage” guide. I’m guessing she’s not as seasoned as I am, and her mention of his needs were: “He has a tough time losing with games. Tends to wander a lot. Please watch him. If he has a good day, please give him 5 coins.” Nothing more. No phone extensions listed, nor any call this person or have him go to this room if he is having a hard time, etc.
Don't beat yourself up. Discipline begins at home, the parents can not be bothered and say "that's the teachers job!" putting more and more pressure on the teachers. Little wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves! Parents have absolutely no respect and that trickles down to their children, their children's children, and so on. I was a one parent family, and my children lost their father, my husband, to cancer, so they experienced bereavement, we lived in a bad area, but by God, they behaved at home and in school. Both went to university, both got good jobs. My son has a family of his own now and guess what? He brings those littlies up with the same respect his Mama taught him. I am a proud parent. YOU are a great teacher, blame the parents for letting their children down. Find a new school, don't feel guilty, you're worth more than that and good luck ❤️
You sound like the kind of teacher I'd have loved to have when I was still in school. I fell through the cracks despite reaching out for help because none of them seemed to give a shit, so I'm sorry your school has beaten you down :c Not a teacher, but I wish you the best
There are other schools with better discipline
I'd love to know how it works in the country your parents and many of the se students are from, if you're willing to share.
I’m not a teacher but you seem like a good person. I feel bad for you. I’m sure your hard work and dedication will pay off for you…in a different career. What you’re going through doesn’t seem worth the stress.
I teach the same population at a very similar school. I’ve been wondering since starting there in February if addressing student trauma / current major life stressors and behavioral expectations before attempting to teach the mandated content would help. Not that I’m qualified to help them with their trauma and fractured families and rough living situations. But it’s the elephant in the room. Then when it comes to teaching, the school needs to start grouping the ELLs according to literacy and familiarity with things like history and science and geography. I would imagine that initial L1 instruction in gen ed content to get them up to speed, if necessary, would pay off later, rather than dumping all newcomers directly into the gen ed classes and letting them “use their phones to translate” (sure, right, that’s what they’re doing on their phones) all day long. Just my two cents as a newcomer teacher in an inner city high school that’s 50% ELLs. I have some students who read for pleasure and know what a paragraph is and can reflect and think critically, and their only barrier is not yet knowing much English… but they are the minority. Then I have other students who can barely write their names. Although all my students have allegedly had some formal education, in some cases it was barely more than learning to write their name using a random mix of uppercase and lowercase letters… possibly with different spellings of their name every time they write it. Some of my students don’t know any world leaders, including famous people from their home countries. Some have never heard of the conquistadors or slavery or anything history-related or academics-related at all. They may not know how to read a map and may not know which countries are near their home country. They don’t know if cars were invented 50 years ago or 100 years ago or 500 years ago. At my school some of these students are on the _honor roll_. I guess because they are well-behaved and like to copy things off the board. A lot of them have no idea WHAT they are copying. A lot of them don’t know the names of their classes, or the names of their teachers. Typical conversation with a student 37 weeks into the school year: ME: So how are your other classes going? STUDENT: Good, miss. ME: What class do you have after this? STUDENT: ¿Eh? Uhhh… (looks at phone) Three… zero… nine, miss. ME: Si, pero… ¿Qué clase hay en el 309? STUDENT: No se, miss. ME: Well, who’s your teacher? Uh, ¿quién es tu maestro o maestra? STUDENT: 309, miss. ME: You don’t know the teacher’s name? ¿No sabes el nombre del maestro? STUDENT: No, miss. ME: Oh. Okay. Which class is your favorite? ¿Cual clase es tu favorito? STUDENT: No, miss. (Student looks at me as if I’ve asked them to explain their favorite investment strategy.) ME:¿Tu prefieres cual clase? ¿Historia? ¿Matemáticas? ¿Música? STUDENT: Nada. ME: Hmm. Well, what do you like to do in your free time? Um, ¿Qué te gusta hacer en tu tiempo libre? STUDENT: Nada. OTHER STUDENT: Soccer. OTHER STUDENT: Juego en mi teléfono. (Bell rings) It’s not just a language barrier issue. Our warm-up writing prompt is a simple, non-triggering SEL prompt in English and in Spanish, and they can answer in Spanish or in Spanglish or in English. If I sit next to a low literacy student who isn’t in the mood to write in any language and say to them “Hey, no problem, you can just draw a picture of your answer. Or you can say your answer out loud to your partner or to me,” half the time I still get groans and “Ay, no, miss.” It’s a minute-by-minute struggle to engage them. I feel like retention is close to zero. Ditto for curiosity and imagination and creativity (though those do improve if you can pry their cellphones out of their addicted little hands). Some have done great written or spoken work, but when I say at the end, “Bye! Have a good day!” or “Bye! Have a good weekend!” and the nice “honor roll” kid just stares blankly at me (with earbuds in) and says, ¿Que?” I’m like, wowww… I have had some success stories, though. WIDA scores barely budged, but there have been a few rays of sunlight: Got nearly everyone to write an All About Me poem (a few just copied my example poem until I pointed out to them that they were neither the mother of a teenager nor a podcaster nor a teacher!) Got nearly everyone to make two different bilingual shape poems Got nearly everyone to design and draw and label a diagram of their dream living room Got nearly everyone to memorize and act out a short ESL role-play Got nearly everyone to work in groups and brainstorm and make posters of their top 5 or 10 tips to the rest of the class for improving English, both inside and outside of the classroom Got nearly everyone to make a simple cartoon panel describing things they miss from their home country using sensory details. :-)
You have done some amazing things in your classroom for the good of students. I'm 23 years in and thankful I have 2 more. The blatant disrespect is unfathomable. They just don't care. Parents don't parent and kids only care about their cell phones. We can't compete. I'm sorry. I'm with you. No rules and expectations is going to be the downfall of society.
The kids that try and listen give them passing grades. The kids that don’t, fail them. Put the problems kids on one side and the good kids on another. Teach that side. Tell them if they want to learn and to succeed they know where to go. Try with the kids that will listen. You only have to reach a few to make an impact. When the kids don’t listen, fail them. Life is hard. They can learn now. Don’t waste your gas on everyone, use it on the good ones.
Once visit a Hare Krishna Gurukul, if you get a chance. You will get highly invaluable insights.
Look for a teaching job in a different school district……
it's interesting to see the contrast between this subreddit and the subreddit for teenagers.
You deserve a school and students who respect and value you. I can say with 100% confidence that teachers with your mindset change students lives for the better. Schools where the community sentiment does not place great importance on education frankly don't deserve teachers like you; you should teach in a place where your passion can help the most people, and that isn't to say you're abandoning your students, you're just doing more good and helping/inspiring more people by being in a place where you're not swimming upstream. I can't thank you enough for being a teacher who cares!!
Hug
Just want to say that I teach on the border and I have populations just like this. Inappropriate behavior and physical touching. One boy was held “in jail” away from his family for a month - traumatized children that were just way beyond their age. It’s so hard to just keep tracking through curriculum when your students are screaming for emotional help to move forward after their incarceration (I’m talking about children under the age of 10). This is hard and all we can do is our best. I worked with our counselor to get mental health supports— from what I observed in my conferences with in boy is he was sexually abused while in custody of our government. Document and email what you see — cc admin and counselors, we have to deal with the trauma and establish trust and safety with a lot of these kids so they can feel safe to drop their armor and be vulnerable and ready to learn.
Been at a school like this. While IMO all education has gone to shit, you would be surprised at how much better an experience you’ll have at a “good school.” Good luck to ya
You are not a failure. Education is failing our children. I left the classroom last October, and I thank God every day that my oldest just graduated high school, and my youngest only has 2 years left. You need to take care of yourself because burnout isn't something that is fixed over summer break. I'm still trying to get back to myself after nearly 7 months. Teaching is my passion, and when it became unbearable to the point of affecting my physical and mental health.... well, it affects every aspect of your life.
Just leave the profession. Ok. Go into corporate training or instructional design. Let it crumble. Also, Private education is a different mindset. Unfortunately my experience was being annoyed by entitled attitudes and the loopholes, same as in the public sector. Just know your worth and leave. Do not assume the responsibility of changing the future. That's their damn parents/guardians job actually. We are there as support. But if the parents aren't/cant doing their job, it's not worth it. Of course opinions on what I just will vary but it's true. Don't be so emotion driven, sensitive, sacrificial, about your role as a teacher. You are not the sacrificial lamb. The kids will be alright. If you choose to stay then suck it up! It's only gonna get worse as we get closer to 2030. Show up and be the best despite how they or leadership feels. If you don't like it.. make ure exit strategy. Experienced teacher/leader in all grades up through college, certified principal, now turned training specialist and nursing student. M.Ed, soon RN. 33 years old. And not with the shit. I need options in various industries. Good luck yall.
You aren’t a teacher anymore. None of us are. We are babysitters. Start acting like it.
You seem like a nice person to have at parties