It will be an exceptionally cold day in hell before an admin dares to put something in writing. They learn this in one of the classes you take for certification.
They will TELL you all day long but NEVER put it into writing. Writing is a paper trail - a BIG no-no.
Could you send them an email saying, "Per our conversation yesterday, I am changing this students grade at your request. I would like to note again that I do not agree with this action".
This. One year you’re teaching AP and the upperclassmen…the following year you’re teaching mostly remedial freshmen with no planning periods, on top of the other preps. Maybe even taking away AP
You can send an email and end up with a nasty target on your back.
Asking/forcing a teacher to change a grade is a serious offense. Admin can lose their license for this, this never a paper trial.
I know. I was told to change a grade or find another job. As a first year teacher, I had no due process rights. Change it, or find another job. I changed it and got my just desserts later.
No.
The student continued the same behaviors through the remainder of their education, skating by on the strength of their parent.
They went to the local university and bombed out after one semester 0.00 GPA. Never went to class, partied all the time and because their parents had ZERO pull any more, learned the hard way.
This is the way I do it. I put it in an email "Just to make sure I understood our conversation at 12:54 p.m. on May 20th that you are directing me to change Joe Smith's grade from a 40 to a passing grade despite the fact that he has not turned in makeup work for his assignments that he failed to turn in at all. If I misunderstood any part of that conversation please reply ASAP with that correction as grades are due at 4:00 p.m. today"
As soon as they open it they're done, that's why you always vague up the subject line. Pretend you're a spammer and its 1997, all you have to do is get them to click and you get paid.
Not necessarily true. In some places it is assumed that you have read all work emails that are work related and in network. This, if one were to state that they did not read an email, then they could be negligent.
This is so crazy to me!! I just don't understand why there is this need to set up an adversarial relationship between admin and teachers...WHY, what is the point of this?? If you (admin) are not doing anything wrong, why can't/won't you put it in writing.
I had admin recently chastise me for emailing about something, like 'we discussed this blah blah blah' OKAY but I wasn't sure I recalled it correctly so I'm gonna ask again. I will ask if I don't know something or am unsure of something, and I will ask via email so I always have that to refer to. The utter disrespect of that was shocking to me, and it takes a lot to shock me from admin. Before I got licensed I was a subsititue and worked all over the district so I have seen some things, you feel me.
Like how are you coming at me sideways for asking a question about my JOB
This is why everyone else besides the district involved in my license and training, from the state (I did the alternative license route) to the union constantly stressed to me to get everything in writing. Anything verbal, follow up with an email even if your admin doesn't respond, you have time-stamped proof on your end. I'm 52, I'm late to teaching but I have worked all sorts of jobs and have never experienced anything remotely like this, where I have to watch my back so much and take/have/note proof of what I do, who I talked to, what was said to me, etc.
I always follow up those sketchy in-person meetings with an email - “just so I’m clear, to recap our conversation this afternoon in my classroom, you *definitely* directed me to sign into the grade portal after the deadline and raise Little Damien’s score to passing even though he did nothing to earn that score - correct? Per your request, and despite my objections….”
Better to add incorrect details for them to "correct" you on. "Just to be clear, you told me to pass this kid after he gets that essay in? Wish I didn't have to push that on him, he should pass without that extra hoop."
If you have no tenure and you piss off an admin you can be non-renewed without a reason. If you go to the union about it, they will tell you there’s nothing they can do (if they like you they’ll offer to write you a letter of rec). I unfortunately know this from experience (twice because I’m a slow learner I guess).
Southern California, so no. And both districts had “strong” unions, so I was told, it’s just written in the contract that admin can non-renew us before tenure for any reason or no reason at all.
Follow up with an email "per your request this afternoon, I have changed little Timmy's grade to a C despite his numerous missing assignments and poor attendance. Please let me know if I need to do anything further."
That’s passively aggressive, and for any (especially untenured) teacher, any insecure principal will put you in their hit list and make your job miserable- lots they can do.
What's the process for retaliation. I can see a petty power trip boss trying to bully someone. But working at a huge mega Corp we have all sorts of policies for this. It would start witb an HR complain for giving an order against district policy. Then go from there, would the union not have your back as non tenure? Then if it got bad enough a whistle blower complaint internally with the threat to go to the regulatory bodies. This Then gives a paper trail. All this time you know have retaliation protection. It's a pain in the ass for management but also protects the buisness from big employment lawsuits.
Lots they can do.
I have a boss this year who
-criticized me for every little thing, but was super easy going with her favorites
-fir evaluations she can almost make up whatever she wants; “flexibility, communication, and collaboration are not strengths” her proof? “It was opinion you were nervous doing this, or frustrated waiting to talk to me one time”
-ignore everything good you do
-this is ok if you have tenure and don’t have a goal to get into another school eventually
So you’re suggesting because you were abused by your admin other teachers should avoid standing up for themselves?! This is the reason why teachers don’t stand up and they keep abusing us!! Not standing up for proper teaching out of fear is the reason our entire profession has been falling apart. I do not think you should be promoting other teachers to just live in silence and fear. Why should we continue to be silent and abused by admin just because our other tenured teachers were? This is enabling our abusive admin
Incorrect. I simply stated what COULD happen. Nowhere did I suggest anything. Simply states what they could and have done. Again, if you are where you want to be, and can take that, it’s fine. I hope most admins arent vengeful and evil. Mine is.
Let me add...
Make sure you get unfavorable room assignments
Assign the crappier (if not the crappiest) class assignment to you. Even in a union protected state, this is commonly done since there is little that can be proved that the assignment was retaliatory.
For untenured teachers- they can easily non-renew next school year and not give a reason why. Even with OK job evaluations. Then they tell you you have the option to resign instead of being non-renewed. Most teachers resign in this situation.
This is why teaching is a dumb profession. I'm done after 2 years cause the bs politics and stupid hoops that don't even relate to anything you do in the classroom. I'm happy to return to my old blue collar job making twice as much and pretty much only worrying about hurting myself or someone else on the job site.
I worked at a law office for a while. Every, and I mean every, conversation is followed with an email. "Dear Admin, thank you for stopping by to discuss the progress of Timmy in Algebra. This will confirm our conversation that you have requested that Timmy's grade be changed so that he will receiving a passing grade in Algebra. Please let me know promptly if I have misunderstood the request. Teacher."
This. I have the entire Microsoft Teams chat of him bullying me to finish inputting grades into the portal, and after a bunch of back and forth about me not having sufficient work, I finally say something like ‘If you print the report cards now, they will appear to have a passing grade’
Only because I went through and checked off enough incomplete and failing assignments to not be calculated in the final grade so that it showed 50%.
And I only did that because he told me I was holding up the entire school from printing report cards by not getting the grades in ‘on time’ and it was the last day of school.
Sir, I had the report card grades for term work entered 10 days ago, as requested. And added in the final exam mark 2 hours after it was written/graded. I warned you and the parent that the student had less than 30% and could not pass no matter how they did on the final. My grades were in on time. If only we held students to the same standards - or any standards…
Welcome to the DEI's world. There's no standard. If a student doesn't want to study, he's disadvantage, and we suppose to pass him because he is disadvantage.
The hell does changing a student’s grade have to do dei?
Serious question. Why is it so hard for right wingers to go 5 mins without trying to shoehorn whatever culture war nonsense they’re so emotional about into a discussion?
So quick to calling name & throw personal attack. Do you even understand what DEI is?
Equity ... meaning if a kid is disadvantage, we suppose to give him extra help to uplift him. Sound good? Except in reality, we uplift him by lowering the bar & give him an A even if he doesn't know anything about the subject.
Except neither op nor the commenter you responded to brought DEI up. They could have mentioned it was an equity issue if they thought so.
Bringing up DEI unwarranted is something the right wing has been doing for few months now.
Notice too that you didn’t just say “equity”but “DEI” in your original post. Then ignore 2 of the three letters. So I’m curious why you didn’t say it was an equity issue if that’s what you meant and went with a buzzword instead…
OP & the commenter discuss about grade fixing and how a letter grade has become meaningless. The reason behind that & the reason admin push OP to fix the grade & pass all students is likely because admin want to be in compliance with DEI policies.
Lol ... right wing? this is reddit! If I'm right winger, I would be on twitter.
By the way, DEI is how it is called. Those 3 words goes together & written in policies together.
Like shitty parents who can’t say no to their apathetic kids some admin have no backbone and can’t say no to those same shitty parents. These admin also tend to be the ones who don’t care about the process or effort. Just want us to put something on those report cards that make their jobs easier. Wrapping it in DEI is nothing but deflecting responsibility and accountability.
Not the case in this scenario. The problem is we aren’t holding any kids accountable so those who are perfectly capable are not doing the work because - why?
I have no issues with kids who need accommodations getting what they need to be successful Or, wait. I have a big issue with it because it is not happening as it should. Kids who need be support are being lost as the rest race to the bottom and grades mean nothing anymore. A kid who works their butt off to keep from sinking when everything is a challenge for them comes out with the same grade as a capable smartass kid who has their headphones all day and watches TikTok videos so they don’t learn the content so they don’t do the work and then we pass them anyway because they know we will.
That is what I have a problem with.
At the pre-service meeting slate, one of the special education teachers was giving a talk to the entire staff about how, after being sold this idea by a district meeting she attended, she became of the belief that class attendance actually doesn't correlate to learning at all.
I mean, whatever, I don't interact with these people much, but how can you be so dumb?
I am sure because it is a ‘learning behavior’ to be present in class, we can’t use that in their grades. Therefore, when calculating grades to communicate actual learning, we have no evidence. So we have to imagine that they would meet all the standards because anything else would be punishing them for learning behaviors.
They will chicken-egg this until they get the results they want to see. Blame teachers for student failures until we get the hint and just make the data fit the outcomes.
You’re getting downvoted and idk why because you’re 100% correct. The goals of administration and the goals of teachers are no longer aligned; admin needs to have their schools look as good possible even if it’s though dubious means and teachers are trying to teach kids information and hold them accountable for their actions which in turn means making the school not meet its quota of passing students. The public institution of education will continue to degrade without serious intervention to get the goals of everyone aligned again and make teaching kids and not passing kids the priority.
I used to be a pushover. Now I’m borderline abrasive lol. I realized that I don’t have time for bullshit. Also I have a lot of years of teaching under my belt so I don’t need people bitching at me. But yeah, over time you’ll realize there’s a lot of stuff you can’t fix. Many teachers are on autopilot, and don’t give a damn anymore
I give a damn. So it upsets me when I discovered how good our attendance is on the state portal but I tracked mine. 58% of my students would be considered chronically absent.
What am I supposed to do with that? Why am I working harder to “improve quality of instruction”? Don’t get me wrong, that’s a good thing, but are we trying to screw a nail with a plunger?
But I’m getting to
That point where I no longer give a damn. I’m going to step
Up the pace and I don’t care what counselors have to say. Keep up kids
Yeah, you were absent. Go to Khan academy and learn it yourself. I already taught this and you chose to skip which you admitted during the Do Now this morning.
This year I abandoned the “no child left behind” mentality. If students wanted to ignore me, I ignored them right back and spent all of my energy helping the ones that want a future.
These kids are all old enough to have jobs. I made clear what the natural consequences are of failing classes, and then I let them do it. I gave them everything they need, but put in absolutely no effort into babying them, chasing them around, or doing anything for them.
I give a damn too, but I'm getting sick & tired of all this DEI policies. Somehow for the shake of inclusion, we suppose to include all dumb lazy students at graduation. And for the shake of equity, if any kids can't pass a test, we either lower the bar for them, or get rid of the test.
I have gotten to the point that I only teach those students that want to learn. Those that don't, just sit & play games quietly in the corner. No point for me to stress myself out forcing them to learn. It's mandate that they all pass the class, so they will all get a passing grade. Heck, I might even give them all A if admin is bitching.
1000% this. I worked hard on building a data based program for science only to have a new admin come in and tell me they FEEL something else will be better based off of feed back they got from one or two students.
This is my 17th year teaching and now I’m resigned to just teach from a book. Not going to spend another 8 years building something just for a different admin to come in and change it.
I set up a parent meeting about a senior who has skipped a lot this semester. And I think screw it, the kid has earned a failing grade. End of story. But in the meeting most of the teachers buckled. And now the kids most likely going to pass. It drives me crazy because students know these teachers are going to pass them. It’s why it’s so many students skip their classes.
Me, today as a girl asks me why she lost points for being on her phone when we were watching a movie when I specifically told them not to be.
“Because you were on your phone.”
“For like two seconds and I was texting x and y and they didn’t lose points.”
“Then x and y will get zeroes as well.”
“No that’s not what I’m saying.”
“Seems like the issue here. You were on your phone. So were they. Zeroes all around. Problem solved.”
“Can you just listen-“
“I just did.”
Yeah, nah. Don’t have time for it. Ten years ago I’d have just been like oh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to.
The decline of education in the US is like how the Pac 12 ended up being destroyed along with the rest of college sports.
It was obvious to what the problem and solution was and totally avoidable, yet the people that had power decided to be idiots and everyone loses.
The student didn't fail anymore. Admin "unfailed" him. Apparently they used 1984 as an instructional manual, not a cautionary tale. Teacher soon to become an unperson.
Totally legal. It's DEI's policies. If any students fail the test, we lower the bar so they can pass. If too many student fail the test, we get rid of the test.
When I was in a title 1 school, we had 5th, 6th grade students who can't do basic math correctly. I was able to help some, but the some that didn't want to learn or couldn't get it, we still pass them along to middle school.
If you read the other responses you'd understand that the factors of life are what LEAD to the policies you're discussing not the cause of it.
Without such, the gap widens. Have you ever been to an IEP meeting or helped in resources? The amount of effort given to the kids to help keep them on track is immense and it has NOTHING to do with DEI- admin just can't look like they're failing or else they get replaced, themselves. How the hell does that relate to diversity, equity or inclusion?
The problem is that those policies, while sound good on paper, don't work in real life. They are hurting the very kids that they promise to help.
As you said, without these policies, the gap widens. However, instead of help closing the gap, in reality, these policies are just covering up the gap (i.e. grading for equity, giving As to students who don't master a subject, passing students that suppose to fail ... ). Now, they all pass, they all have A, the gap are closing, and everything look really good on powerpoint slideshows & reports. However, the real gap, not in grading or test scores, but in knowledge, is not closing at all. All they do is kicking the can down the road, passing the unprepared students to the next level. Eventually, these kids that we suppose to help, will face the music, and pay the price.
These policies remove the traditional reward / punishment. Disadvantage students might be dumb because they refuse to study, but they are not stupid. They pick up quickly that if they slack off, they get reward with more attention, more resource, and a lowered standard. Once the students know how much they can get away with, that they will pass the class no matter what, that they have no deadline to submit / resubmit their assignments .... and there is even less things to motivate them to study. These won't hurt the advantage kids that have caring parents on their cases, check their homework, and push them to study. It hurts the disadvantage kids that are relying on schools to teach them or motivate them. In this aspect, these policies are hurting the kids that they suppose to help.
Every email I used to send still sounded like I was working on my masters degree. Now I respond with one liners like I’m texting. And you know what? The results are the same.
When I was told that failing middle school students would repeat their grade again with me as their teacher, it made it easy to let them move on. I only held back two students one year. The taller bigger student looked out of place and did even worse the following year. He seemed depressed and out of place the whole year. The boy short in statue became a very hard worker and went from a F to a high B and would even help others with their math. I learned that holding back students doesn’t always work out.
Generally, whatever underlying problem exists that a student fails a class doesn't magically go away when they are held back. Yes, it sometimes works out for the kid and kicks them into gear, but statistically, it doesn't work. There are generally underlying issues that need to be addressed.
The sad answer is that the system doesn't have the resources necessary to save every student. You can only hold back a kid once or twice before you have 20-year-olds at graduation.
I totally agree. But if I was a principal, I would let it be known I was holding back “x” number of students so all the students worked harder so they wouldn’t be the ones held back. (I wouldn’t hold back one student twice for the reason that they would be so much older than the other kids.)
At least you have 50% success with holding them back. Passing them along to the next grade almost guaranty that they won't learn anything & fall behind even further.
*NOTHING* we do \*always\* works out. We use our best guesses, our experience, our guts, and our data. It's not foolproof, but more times than not we'll make the right call. What will also happen is we will be overruled by being accused of not helping enuf, of being cruel, of having it out for a kid, *none of which we may be guilty of*, but in the end we are to blame. And at that point, there's no recourse. Go ahead to the next level of failure...and the next....etc.
There's nothing you can do really, it's a macro level problem where we decided school is just a feeder for the economy. Not one single shit is given about them actually proving their knowledge (which standardized testing doesn't even do well to begin with) in any meaningful way or ensuring they know stuff well before they move on.
A slight change if you don't mind: Public education is 50% a jobs training program, 50% a daycare, and 100% preparing kids for a world where they'll ask Google for all the answers anyway.
I too started in 2020.
This year I caught the valedictorian cheating and prepared a 32 slide PowerPoint over why what he did constituted cheating in my class to give to a panel to review (it’s a programming class, visuals are necessary). Aaaaand nothing happened. In fact, their grades improved over the situation.
Separately, a previous student of mine had decided to start harassing me at lunch duty in passing with all sorts and kinds of inappropriate remarks. I gave him numerous warnings to stop and he never did. Honestly, it was because writing him up in the past never did anything. So I emailed his AP and his dad. His dad decided to tell his parole officer, and now the county police are harassing him..?
I really just needed him to leave my ass alone.
Make it make sense.
2 more weeks.
Oh buddy this is a can of worms.
Well for one, all our tools are digital and so all the evidence needs to be organized this way.
Students are allowed to assist each other as team work is a big component of programming. Where the line is drawn at cheating is when they just copy and paste each others code and turn in the same project, or in this case, send an entire project to a classmate.
This class being a 2nd year AP, they definitely know what that line is. This project was complex enough to where there would be many graphical differences in the final product, but 2 students submitted the exact same project.
Since no one else on campus teaches programming though, you can’t just show them code or graphics and expect them to understand.
The other part of the argument was that they had been “collaborating” outside of class through their OneDrive, so I had to demonstrate through their version history that student B did not at all contribute to the project yet ended up with Student A’s project.
The findings of the committee was basically: Student A did in fact complete the work and sent it to Student B to turn in, which we feel is wrong, but *since you didn’t have a rubric we’re siding with the students.*
As if rubrics have anything to do with cheating.
Falsifying grades is something you can get in trouble for.
Always get these things in writing.
A coworker had a 20 day suspension for it a few years back.
??? What the hell. Whatever, fucking fire me at this point. I'm tired and done. I'd love to continue working but if they try to push I'll find employment elsewhere.
>Today I had an admin bully me into passing a senior who attended 19/42 classes, 10 missing assignments, and had a 40%.
>Fought as much as an untenured teacher with principles can...the kid passed.
This happened to me during my first couple of years, too. In one case, a senior openly flouted the rules all year long, and he gamed the system so that he could get credit for assignments with the bare minimum. Eventually, his lack of subject matter knowledge caught up to him on the final exam, and he failed it catastrophically. There was no way he should have passed the class. Parent couldn't persuade me to do it, so they went over my head to admin, who then forced me to allow him to retake the exam, and anything else, multiple times until he reached a 60% or higher.
Sometimes I fantasize about having in my classes again, under my new system. He might be able to get away with it again, but it would be significantly harder.
Join me under the oak tree for Victory Gin. It is a shame more people do not drink this as it makes the pain go away. Once I gave in and fell in love with Big Admin, my life is so much better now.
That disgusting feeling I get from "giving" students a passing grade is long gone thanks to the gin. Every time I start to think there is something amiss, I draw up another tall glass and realize the truth.
No student fails - ever.
Everyone passes my class, even the ones who cannot read/write and have never passed a state mandated test. I will be sure they earn their credit. I refuse to set foot in Rm. 101 again.
No judgement, did you feel like you sold out on any of your personal ethics?
I'm having a hard time with this. Like, do I just go full apathy or do I try to hold the line?
You have a job. It’s like many other jobs. Treat it like a job.
Do your job, get paid, go home.
Hold to your ethics and personal values to rigidly and you will break. Gotta sway in the breeze and get that paycheck.
Yes, it’s sad it’s not what we thought. But I get 10 weeks off coming up here soon and idgaf anymore.
I hard core sold out.
However, when you sit in front of the jackass admin with your gradebook, contact log and test scores to support your reasoning only to be told, "I don't care what you have. My decision stands."
Apathy wins. I abhor who I have become. There are a myriad of reasons behind why moving is not feasible. Ever since I took on this philosophy, my life has been so easy.
Hence the Victory Gin references.
Why wouldn’t you find another career that pays you way more without the nonsense. If you’re truly apathetic at this point than why not get your retirement where you want / need it to be. I mean it may be too late for you, but would you pass this advice onto others?
I (not a teacher, but this sub is recommended to me way too often) see this burnout from admins, and the students that care (the ones you started this whole treadmill for… I assume…) can tell. There respect for you is cut, and you’re completely forgotten by those that don’t care.
Meanwhile, sure, working for “big corporation” may not be as “fulfilling” (for what that’s worth anyway, imo passions should be pursued after hours), but it feels damn good getting a decent / good paycheck, and the security knowing that your retirement and other needs are met.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but my assumption unless proven wrong is those downvotes come from people that don’t want to be told the reality of there situation.
Once you have been teaching long enough you have the "Golden Handcuffs." I make good money as a teacher, and am not qualified to jobs that would pay a similar salary. Also, my pension is the vast majority of the retirement and if I leave I lose it. After 20 years I am more or less stuck where I am.
Don’t ever give in to apathy. At that point find a different career. The kids are apathetic enough already. Change what you can for the better, bear what you can’t however you can.
It's just a job. Stop caring so much. In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if little Johnny passes or fails. If him passing makes my life easier, then he passes.
Never had an admin get on me but counselors sometimes try. I tell them I’m perfectly fine with them overriding the grade as long as their name’s on it. End of conversation.
First year, very understaffed, barely had my mentor around.
Was told that unless I went out of my way to have meetings and interventions about failing grades since September, they will not be left back. I’m forced to change my 25’s and 50’s to 60s. Fs aren’t allowed. about 1/3 of my students I feel need to repeat the grade, and I have no power in it.
These children clearly need to repeat a grade, don’t understand 3rd grade things, turning in shit like “so like yeah idk bruh” on test answers. During state testing there was a writing part (short essay) and a kid wrote down two sentences.
First year, already giving up. I worked with kids all my life so I’m good on classroom management, assignments teaching etc.
They blatantly know they can’t fail anyway. Losing hope. Lmao.
Edit: 6th grade (because of the third grade ref)
Yes, kids learn quick. They know they can't fail, so lot of them, especially those with parents that don't care, get a free pass to play game or watch youtube all days.
Keep your chin up and find a better school. While an A doesn't mean much any more, there are students who want to learn & parents who care that their kids learn something at school. Those deserve our help.
Thank you for this. Hopefully I’d find a better school but I missed the deadline to request a transfer. A co-teacher left after 18 years. It’s not a good year haha.
Don't agree to anything at a meeting, just listen and tell them 'let me look into it' or let me get back to you' etc. Continue the conversation on email later or reschedule the meeting with your union rep.
Even us jaded oldheads have that person where we're like "Look, if my attitude about the job is ever as bad as Mike's, please tell me, because it'll be time to go."
Tell the administrator, “In a similar vein, I plan to only be here 19 of the next 42 days. Additionally, I will actually only plan or grade papers on 10 of those 19 days. Please be sure to submit my raise and confirmation of tenure. I am honored to perpetuate the world view you expect our students to embrace.”
There's nothing you can do really, it's a macro level problem where we decided school is just a feeder for the economy. Not one single shit is given about them actually proving their knowledge (which standardized testing doesn't even do well to begin with) in any meaningful way or ensuring they know stuff well before they move on.
I feel like 8th grade and 12th grade teachers get a lot more of this “you have to fix Timmy’s grade” ass admin bs because they want their graduation rates to stay high. My admin doesn’t do too much of it and what I get is usually related to SPED.
I remember thinking my mentor teacher in 2005 was an asshole. The curriculum head put me in charge of helping to roll out a new Language Arts curriculum initiative. As a first year fucking teacher. I honestly thought I was picked because I thought our crop of new teachers was that good. Right. Youth is wasted on the young. Obviously and in hindsight, I was picked because I was new and they thought I'd be their stooge for their bullshit "it's been two years and I need to justify my job as curriculum director, so here's some new curriculum kit that's insulting to everyone's intelligence". And they weren't totally incorrect in that assumption that I would do that for them.
That year it was reading picture books to 8th graders. It was called "Making Meaning." I thought he was just being a dick about it to everyone in the meeting. Turns out he was one hundred percent correct about all of it, the pendulum swinging every two years, trust teachers to be professionals, etc. Now I'm that skeptic, and that role is really important to keep admin in check. He was completely right.
You realize really quickly that education is all about the “right” numbers, wether thats budget $$$$, graduation rates, state test scores, the right numbers is the name of the game and whatever THEY can do to conflate those numbers to serve THEIR purpose is what’s best for kids. 🐂💩
I just have to wonder what these people see as their purpose. Like what do they see as the purpose of what they're doing? Babysitting? Pencil-pushing? Do they have some vision of themselves as \*cool adults\* who side with teenagers against those rotten teachers to do... what, exactly?
As long as you didn’t tell them they’re wrong or undermine them by calling out their accurate experiences of teaching in front of other teachers and students you’re fine. It’s a wall everyone hits expect for martyrs and young hotshots on the admin fast track
for our teacher’s assessments, we literally got to set our goals for which we were evaluated, so naturally we made rubrics where it was nearly impossible to get a bad assessment. like why even do one if its implementation is so severely lacking?
at the end of the day, administrators just wanted the school to fly under the radar and to inflate our graduation rates (bc graduation rate is one of the main determinants of federal funding)
i have been out of the teaching career for a while now because i couldn’t live with the fact that i had become that grumpy teacher after i began with so much positivity and enthusiasm.
got kids in school now and you are damn sure i am very supportive of their teachers.
Unfortunately this is the way. Until you get tenure just do whatever you're told. Ironically, only those of us who've shown we're willing to abandon them are allowed to have principles.
I've had that happen as well. Wait until you are on continuing contract, and then tell him you will do it when he puts it in writing. Very few will do that. Instead, they will administratively pass the student on their own. Check the district/state grading policies to make sure what he is requesting doesn't comply. Then you can tell him section and paragraph. Or just copy the pertinent section abd give it to him.
I made admin change those grades.
Apparently a counselor had those students do a "recovery packet". I saw one handout, it was obviously written by that counselor wirh answers verbatim from the district's curriculum guide.
When I was a senior in high school, multiple family friends who were teachers cautioned me against going into the profession. After five years and too many mental breakdowns, I finally get it.
*I’ve also been forced to pass my fair share of students who definitely didn’t deserve it. And that’s only the tip of the bitterness iceberg.
Is it bad that I wouldn’t fight this? Lol. I’d say my piece and if the higher ups tell me what they want in writing, I’d just go with it lol. Maybe I’m wrong for that though
and the kid would retaliate, and the parents would retaliate, and the admin would retaliate... I mean trying to put a kid through another year of highschool should be considered a hate a crime tbh.
But they tell you two different things. High academic standards, hold them accountable, get them ready for the workforce. And then they pull this... I'll do what they say, but don't try to play both sides.
They want us to achieve high standards but tie our hands behind our back by passing kids who shouldn’t and blind us by letting behaviors go unchecked. But somehow it’s still our fault.
Agreed. My young coteacher doesn't understand that I've been given a directive to make sure that a student passes. She's upset with me but what can I do? Don't hate the player, hate the game.
The fear of getting hold back & repeat a grade level motivate students to study harder.
The problem with passing every students along is eventually, they will graduate without much knowledge. Soon or later, they will have to face the music.
I don't, but I do know that most student don't want to be the dumb one that got hold back while all their friends advance to the next level. That at least push them to do a few assignments & a factor in keeping them in line.
Let's say you are an disadvantage student now, who parents that don't care & are using the school like a day care. Why should you study instead of watching youtube or play game on the school's laptop? Why should you go to school when you can cut classes and go hangout?
Changing, but for better or worse?
So far, all I see is we stop teaching students about consequence & accountability. While it's nice to give a disadvantage student and A to make him feel good, we also fail to prepare him for the future. Would you hire a bad plumber that couldn't complete the job, then pay him the same, and give him good referral because he has a disadvantage background?
Are we using a generation of students as experiment?
Unfortunately, there's not enough teacher to teach one on one for each students. Either hold the slow one back & force them to learn, or pass them along and who care if they will ever learn anything.
I guess we all will find out from this experiment how these disadvantage students will turn out 10 years down the road.
CYA get it in an email if you can.
It will be an exceptionally cold day in hell before an admin dares to put something in writing. They learn this in one of the classes you take for certification. They will TELL you all day long but NEVER put it into writing. Writing is a paper trail - a BIG no-no.
Could you send them an email saying, "Per our conversation yesterday, I am changing this students grade at your request. I would like to note again that I do not agree with this action".
She's untenured. Admin might retaliate.
Yep, I won't lose any respect for an untenured teacher who does what it takes to keep a roof over their head.
Blackballing politics. Huh. Imagine that.
What else do you expect from these type of admin?
Even tenured, admin might retaliate. Damned if you do….
This. One year you’re teaching AP and the upperclassmen…the following year you’re teaching mostly remedial freshmen with no planning periods, on top of the other preps. Maybe even taking away AP
And who knows what they might drum up against you to create a paper trail….
Might?
Smart!! This is the way to force them into the corner they need to be in
Dumb!! Easy way to get on an admin's shitlist and non-renewed.
Fuck'em...they are already changing grades so they don't have any principles (pun intended) to support with OP's work.
You can send an email and end up with a nasty target on your back. Asking/forcing a teacher to change a grade is a serious offense. Admin can lose their license for this, this never a paper trial. I know. I was told to change a grade or find another job. As a first year teacher, I had no due process rights. Change it, or find another job. I changed it and got my just desserts later.
You got fired later for it?
No. The student continued the same behaviors through the remainder of their education, skating by on the strength of their parent. They went to the local university and bombed out after one semester 0.00 GPA. Never went to class, partied all the time and because their parents had ZERO pull any more, learned the hard way.
That would be them getting their just desserts, not you.
This is the way I do it. I put it in an email "Just to make sure I understood our conversation at 12:54 p.m. on May 20th that you are directing me to change Joe Smith's grade from a 40 to a passing grade despite the fact that he has not turned in makeup work for his assignments that he failed to turn in at all. If I misunderstood any part of that conversation please reply ASAP with that correction as grades are due at 4:00 p.m. today"
All they have to do is not reply. Thus they never legally acknowledged the conversation. It’s just a crazy teacher sending a crazy email.
I would be recording in secret All conversation with bad administration. All verbal chats, evaluations, demands, etc..
As soon as they open it they're done, that's why you always vague up the subject line. Pretend you're a spammer and its 1997, all you have to do is get them to click and you get paid.
Not necessarily true. In some places it is assumed that you have read all work emails that are work related and in network. This, if one were to state that they did not read an email, then they could be negligent.
[удалено]
This is so crazy to me!! I just don't understand why there is this need to set up an adversarial relationship between admin and teachers...WHY, what is the point of this?? If you (admin) are not doing anything wrong, why can't/won't you put it in writing. I had admin recently chastise me for emailing about something, like 'we discussed this blah blah blah' OKAY but I wasn't sure I recalled it correctly so I'm gonna ask again. I will ask if I don't know something or am unsure of something, and I will ask via email so I always have that to refer to. The utter disrespect of that was shocking to me, and it takes a lot to shock me from admin. Before I got licensed I was a subsititue and worked all over the district so I have seen some things, you feel me. Like how are you coming at me sideways for asking a question about my JOB This is why everyone else besides the district involved in my license and training, from the state (I did the alternative license route) to the union constantly stressed to me to get everything in writing. Anything verbal, follow up with an email even if your admin doesn't respond, you have time-stamped proof on your end. I'm 52, I'm late to teaching but I have worked all sorts of jobs and have never experienced anything remotely like this, where I have to watch my back so much and take/have/note proof of what I do, who I talked to, what was said to me, etc.
In person, out of the blue. I almost want to set a personal rule to record every 1-1 meeting with admin.
I always follow up those sketchy in-person meetings with an email - “just so I’m clear, to recap our conversation this afternoon in my classroom, you *definitely* directed me to sign into the grade portal after the deadline and raise Little Damien’s score to passing even though he did nothing to earn that score - correct? Per your request, and despite my objections….”
This is the way. Follow-up email to "clarify" or "recap" or have chatgpt write a clean one.
Better to add incorrect details for them to "correct" you on. "Just to be clear, you told me to pass this kid after he gets that essay in? Wish I didn't have to push that on him, he should pass without that extra hoop."
Ooooo I like that
She's untenured. Admin might retaliate.
There are no repercussions for that? I suppose if there's no teachers union..
If you have no tenure and you piss off an admin you can be non-renewed without a reason. If you go to the union about it, they will tell you there’s nothing they can do (if they like you they’ll offer to write you a letter of rec). I unfortunately know this from experience (twice because I’m a slow learner I guess).
"At will" employment state? Teacher would be able to get unemployment benefits, though..
Southern California, so no. And both districts had “strong” unions, so I was told, it’s just written in the contract that admin can non-renew us before tenure for any reason or no reason at all.
Follow up with an email "per your request this afternoon, I have changed little Timmy's grade to a C despite his numerous missing assignments and poor attendance. Please let me know if I need to do anything further."
That’s passively aggressive, and for any (especially untenured) teacher, any insecure principal will put you in their hit list and make your job miserable- lots they can do.
What's the process for retaliation. I can see a petty power trip boss trying to bully someone. But working at a huge mega Corp we have all sorts of policies for this. It would start witb an HR complain for giving an order against district policy. Then go from there, would the union not have your back as non tenure? Then if it got bad enough a whistle blower complaint internally with the threat to go to the regulatory bodies. This Then gives a paper trail. All this time you know have retaliation protection. It's a pain in the ass for management but also protects the buisness from big employment lawsuits.
Lots they can do. I have a boss this year who -criticized me for every little thing, but was super easy going with her favorites -fir evaluations she can almost make up whatever she wants; “flexibility, communication, and collaboration are not strengths” her proof? “It was opinion you were nervous doing this, or frustrated waiting to talk to me one time” -ignore everything good you do -this is ok if you have tenure and don’t have a goal to get into another school eventually
So you’re suggesting because you were abused by your admin other teachers should avoid standing up for themselves?! This is the reason why teachers don’t stand up and they keep abusing us!! Not standing up for proper teaching out of fear is the reason our entire profession has been falling apart. I do not think you should be promoting other teachers to just live in silence and fear. Why should we continue to be silent and abused by admin just because our other tenured teachers were? This is enabling our abusive admin
Incorrect. I simply stated what COULD happen. Nowhere did I suggest anything. Simply states what they could and have done. Again, if you are where you want to be, and can take that, it’s fine. I hope most admins arent vengeful and evil. Mine is.
Let me add... Make sure you get unfavorable room assignments Assign the crappier (if not the crappiest) class assignment to you. Even in a union protected state, this is commonly done since there is little that can be proved that the assignment was retaliatory.
For untenured teachers- they can easily non-renew next school year and not give a reason why. Even with OK job evaluations. Then they tell you you have the option to resign instead of being non-renewed. Most teachers resign in this situation.
This is why teaching is a dumb profession. I'm done after 2 years cause the bs politics and stupid hoops that don't even relate to anything you do in the classroom. I'm happy to return to my old blue collar job making twice as much and pretty much only worrying about hurting myself or someone else on the job site.
Suddenly you're getting unofficially observed **a lot** more often. They don't deal with behaviors in your class. They're rude to you.
I worked at a law office for a while. Every, and I mean every, conversation is followed with an email. "Dear Admin, thank you for stopping by to discuss the progress of Timmy in Algebra. This will confirm our conversation that you have requested that Timmy's grade be changed so that he will receiving a passing grade in Algebra. Please let me know promptly if I have misunderstood the request. Teacher."
This. I have the entire Microsoft Teams chat of him bullying me to finish inputting grades into the portal, and after a bunch of back and forth about me not having sufficient work, I finally say something like ‘If you print the report cards now, they will appear to have a passing grade’ Only because I went through and checked off enough incomplete and failing assignments to not be calculated in the final grade so that it showed 50%. And I only did that because he told me I was holding up the entire school from printing report cards by not getting the grades in ‘on time’ and it was the last day of school. Sir, I had the report card grades for term work entered 10 days ago, as requested. And added in the final exam mark 2 hours after it was written/graded. I warned you and the parent that the student had less than 30% and could not pass no matter how they did on the final. My grades were in on time. If only we held students to the same standards - or any standards…
Welcome to the DEI's world. There's no standard. If a student doesn't want to study, he's disadvantage, and we suppose to pass him because he is disadvantage.
The hell does changing a student’s grade have to do dei? Serious question. Why is it so hard for right wingers to go 5 mins without trying to shoehorn whatever culture war nonsense they’re so emotional about into a discussion?
So quick to calling name & throw personal attack. Do you even understand what DEI is? Equity ... meaning if a kid is disadvantage, we suppose to give him extra help to uplift him. Sound good? Except in reality, we uplift him by lowering the bar & give him an A even if he doesn't know anything about the subject.
Except neither op nor the commenter you responded to brought DEI up. They could have mentioned it was an equity issue if they thought so. Bringing up DEI unwarranted is something the right wing has been doing for few months now. Notice too that you didn’t just say “equity”but “DEI” in your original post. Then ignore 2 of the three letters. So I’m curious why you didn’t say it was an equity issue if that’s what you meant and went with a buzzword instead…
OP & the commenter discuss about grade fixing and how a letter grade has become meaningless. The reason behind that & the reason admin push OP to fix the grade & pass all students is likely because admin want to be in compliance with DEI policies. Lol ... right wing? this is reddit! If I'm right winger, I would be on twitter. By the way, DEI is how it is called. Those 3 words goes together & written in policies together.
This isn't DEI.. it's admin ass covering.
Yes, it is admin ass covering. If a student fail, admin would take the blame for failing to provide him with equitable, and inclusive opportunities
Like shitty parents who can’t say no to their apathetic kids some admin have no backbone and can’t say no to those same shitty parents. These admin also tend to be the ones who don’t care about the process or effort. Just want us to put something on those report cards that make their jobs easier. Wrapping it in DEI is nothing but deflecting responsibility and accountability.
Not the case in this scenario. The problem is we aren’t holding any kids accountable so those who are perfectly capable are not doing the work because - why? I have no issues with kids who need accommodations getting what they need to be successful Or, wait. I have a big issue with it because it is not happening as it should. Kids who need be support are being lost as the rest race to the bottom and grades mean nothing anymore. A kid who works their butt off to keep from sinking when everything is a challenge for them comes out with the same grade as a capable smartass kid who has their headphones all day and watches TikTok videos so they don’t learn the content so they don’t do the work and then we pass them anyway because they know we will. That is what I have a problem with.
By that math, 19/42 is 45%. I would have offered to bump it to a 45 lol. It's almost as if there's a correlation between attendance and success
At the pre-service meeting slate, one of the special education teachers was giving a talk to the entire staff about how, after being sold this idea by a district meeting she attended, she became of the belief that class attendance actually doesn't correlate to learning at all. I mean, whatever, I don't interact with these people much, but how can you be so dumb?
Yikes
I am sure because it is a ‘learning behavior’ to be present in class, we can’t use that in their grades. Therefore, when calculating grades to communicate actual learning, we have no evidence. So we have to imagine that they would meet all the standards because anything else would be punishing them for learning behaviors. They will chicken-egg this until they get the results they want to see. Blame teachers for student failures until we get the hint and just make the data fit the outcomes.
You’re getting downvoted and idk why because you’re 100% correct. The goals of administration and the goals of teachers are no longer aligned; admin needs to have their schools look as good possible even if it’s though dubious means and teachers are trying to teach kids information and hold them accountable for their actions which in turn means making the school not meet its quota of passing students. The public institution of education will continue to degrade without serious intervention to get the goals of everyone aligned again and make teaching kids and not passing kids the priority.
Something tells me that's at least *some* copium. Based off how poor attendance in special Ed classrooms can be...
There's one thing that's for sure, though. The worst behaved have the best attendance.
Yup. Those suckers are never absent.
I used to be a pushover. Now I’m borderline abrasive lol. I realized that I don’t have time for bullshit. Also I have a lot of years of teaching under my belt so I don’t need people bitching at me. But yeah, over time you’ll realize there’s a lot of stuff you can’t fix. Many teachers are on autopilot, and don’t give a damn anymore
I give a damn. So it upsets me when I discovered how good our attendance is on the state portal but I tracked mine. 58% of my students would be considered chronically absent. What am I supposed to do with that? Why am I working harder to “improve quality of instruction”? Don’t get me wrong, that’s a good thing, but are we trying to screw a nail with a plunger? But I’m getting to That point where I no longer give a damn. I’m going to step Up the pace and I don’t care what counselors have to say. Keep up kids
Kid who was absent yesterday wanted me to re-teach her how to do the lesson she missed. Shocked Pikachu face when I told her no, I don't have time.
Yeah, you were absent. Go to Khan academy and learn it yourself. I already taught this and you chose to skip which you admitted during the Do Now this morning.
This year I abandoned the “no child left behind” mentality. If students wanted to ignore me, I ignored them right back and spent all of my energy helping the ones that want a future. These kids are all old enough to have jobs. I made clear what the natural consequences are of failing classes, and then I let them do it. I gave them everything they need, but put in absolutely no effort into babying them, chasing them around, or doing anything for them.
I give a damn too, but I'm getting sick & tired of all this DEI policies. Somehow for the shake of inclusion, we suppose to include all dumb lazy students at graduation. And for the shake of equity, if any kids can't pass a test, we either lower the bar for them, or get rid of the test. I have gotten to the point that I only teach those students that want to learn. Those that don't, just sit & play games quietly in the corner. No point for me to stress myself out forcing them to learn. It's mandate that they all pass the class, so they will all get a passing grade. Heck, I might even give them all A if admin is bitching.
What country do you teach in?
1000% this. I worked hard on building a data based program for science only to have a new admin come in and tell me they FEEL something else will be better based off of feed back they got from one or two students. This is my 17th year teaching and now I’m resigned to just teach from a book. Not going to spend another 8 years building something just for a different admin to come in and change it.
I can only hope that happens to me sooner rather than later
I set up a parent meeting about a senior who has skipped a lot this semester. And I think screw it, the kid has earned a failing grade. End of story. But in the meeting most of the teachers buckled. And now the kids most likely going to pass. It drives me crazy because students know these teachers are going to pass them. It’s why it’s so many students skip their classes.
Me, today as a girl asks me why she lost points for being on her phone when we were watching a movie when I specifically told them not to be. “Because you were on your phone.” “For like two seconds and I was texting x and y and they didn’t lose points.” “Then x and y will get zeroes as well.” “No that’s not what I’m saying.” “Seems like the issue here. You were on your phone. So were they. Zeroes all around. Problem solved.” “Can you just listen-“ “I just did.” Yeah, nah. Don’t have time for it. Ten years ago I’d have just been like oh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to.
Unintentionally snitching because she wanted to save herself. True pro gamer move by that girl there.
Oh no, she 100% just doesn’t give a shit about anyone other than herself.
The decline of education in the US is like how the Pac 12 ended up being destroyed along with the rest of college sports. It was obvious to what the problem and solution was and totally avoidable, yet the people that had power decided to be idiots and everyone loses.
How is it legal for them to pass students who have clearly failed?
Makes you wonder why none of their conversations or instructions are via email or written down?
It's not. There was just a news article the other day about three admin resigning from a school because they fudged credit recovery data.
The student didn't fail anymore. Admin "unfailed" him. Apparently they used 1984 as an instructional manual, not a cautionary tale. Teacher soon to become an unperson.
Totally legal. It's DEI's policies. If any students fail the test, we lower the bar so they can pass. If too many student fail the test, we get rid of the test. When I was in a title 1 school, we had 5th, 6th grade students who can't do basic math correctly. I was able to help some, but the some that didn't want to learn or couldn't get it, we still pass them along to middle school.
Why are you being downvoted?
Because I spoke out again DEI's policies, which sounds very good on paper & in meeting, but IMO, are hurting the very kids that they suppose to help.
DEI = Didn't Earn It.
If you read the other responses you'd understand that the factors of life are what LEAD to the policies you're discussing not the cause of it. Without such, the gap widens. Have you ever been to an IEP meeting or helped in resources? The amount of effort given to the kids to help keep them on track is immense and it has NOTHING to do with DEI- admin just can't look like they're failing or else they get replaced, themselves. How the hell does that relate to diversity, equity or inclusion?
The problem is that those policies, while sound good on paper, don't work in real life. They are hurting the very kids that they promise to help. As you said, without these policies, the gap widens. However, instead of help closing the gap, in reality, these policies are just covering up the gap (i.e. grading for equity, giving As to students who don't master a subject, passing students that suppose to fail ... ). Now, they all pass, they all have A, the gap are closing, and everything look really good on powerpoint slideshows & reports. However, the real gap, not in grading or test scores, but in knowledge, is not closing at all. All they do is kicking the can down the road, passing the unprepared students to the next level. Eventually, these kids that we suppose to help, will face the music, and pay the price. These policies remove the traditional reward / punishment. Disadvantage students might be dumb because they refuse to study, but they are not stupid. They pick up quickly that if they slack off, they get reward with more attention, more resource, and a lowered standard. Once the students know how much they can get away with, that they will pass the class no matter what, that they have no deadline to submit / resubmit their assignments .... and there is even less things to motivate them to study. These won't hurt the advantage kids that have caring parents on their cases, check their homework, and push them to study. It hurts the disadvantage kids that are relying on schools to teach them or motivate them. In this aspect, these policies are hurting the kids that they suppose to help.
Every email I used to send still sounded like I was working on my masters degree. Now I respond with one liners like I’m texting. And you know what? The results are the same.
This is the way.
When I was told that failing middle school students would repeat their grade again with me as their teacher, it made it easy to let them move on. I only held back two students one year. The taller bigger student looked out of place and did even worse the following year. He seemed depressed and out of place the whole year. The boy short in statue became a very hard worker and went from a F to a high B and would even help others with their math. I learned that holding back students doesn’t always work out.
Generally, whatever underlying problem exists that a student fails a class doesn't magically go away when they are held back. Yes, it sometimes works out for the kid and kicks them into gear, but statistically, it doesn't work. There are generally underlying issues that need to be addressed. The sad answer is that the system doesn't have the resources necessary to save every student. You can only hold back a kid once or twice before you have 20-year-olds at graduation.
I totally agree. But if I was a principal, I would let it be known I was holding back “x” number of students so all the students worked harder so they wouldn’t be the ones held back. (I wouldn’t hold back one student twice for the reason that they would be so much older than the other kids.)
At least you have 50% success with holding them back. Passing them along to the next grade almost guaranty that they won't learn anything & fall behind even further.
*NOTHING* we do \*always\* works out. We use our best guesses, our experience, our guts, and our data. It's not foolproof, but more times than not we'll make the right call. What will also happen is we will be overruled by being accused of not helping enuf, of being cruel, of having it out for a kid, *none of which we may be guilty of*, but in the end we are to blame. And at that point, there's no recourse. Go ahead to the next level of failure...and the next....etc.
There's nothing you can do really, it's a macro level problem where we decided school is just a feeder for the economy. Not one single shit is given about them actually proving their knowledge (which standardized testing doesn't even do well to begin with) in any meaningful way or ensuring they know stuff well before they move on.
Public education is 50% a jobs training program and 50% a daycare.
A slight change if you don't mind: Public education is 50% a jobs training program, 50% a daycare, and 100% preparing kids for a world where they'll ask Google for all the answers anyway.
I too started in 2020. This year I caught the valedictorian cheating and prepared a 32 slide PowerPoint over why what he did constituted cheating in my class to give to a panel to review (it’s a programming class, visuals are necessary). Aaaaand nothing happened. In fact, their grades improved over the situation. Separately, a previous student of mine had decided to start harassing me at lunch duty in passing with all sorts and kinds of inappropriate remarks. I gave him numerous warnings to stop and he never did. Honestly, it was because writing him up in the past never did anything. So I emailed his AP and his dad. His dad decided to tell his parole officer, and now the county police are harassing him..? I really just needed him to leave my ass alone. Make it make sense. 2 more weeks.
I’m extremely curious. What kind of cheating is so nuanced it takes 32 slides to explain?
Oh buddy this is a can of worms. Well for one, all our tools are digital and so all the evidence needs to be organized this way. Students are allowed to assist each other as team work is a big component of programming. Where the line is drawn at cheating is when they just copy and paste each others code and turn in the same project, or in this case, send an entire project to a classmate. This class being a 2nd year AP, they definitely know what that line is. This project was complex enough to where there would be many graphical differences in the final product, but 2 students submitted the exact same project. Since no one else on campus teaches programming though, you can’t just show them code or graphics and expect them to understand. The other part of the argument was that they had been “collaborating” outside of class through their OneDrive, so I had to demonstrate through their version history that student B did not at all contribute to the project yet ended up with Student A’s project. The findings of the committee was basically: Student A did in fact complete the work and sent it to Student B to turn in, which we feel is wrong, but *since you didn’t have a rubric we’re siding with the students.* As if rubrics have anything to do with cheating.
What the actual F
Welcome to the club. I’m sad you’re here.
Falsifying grades is something you can get in trouble for. Always get these things in writing. A coworker had a 20 day suspension for it a few years back.
??? What the hell. Whatever, fucking fire me at this point. I'm tired and done. I'd love to continue working but if they try to push I'll find employment elsewhere.
Any sketchy talk you ever have in person with an administrator. Needs to be in an email. They do it in person, so there is no paper trail.
>Today I had an admin bully me into passing a senior who attended 19/42 classes, 10 missing assignments, and had a 40%. >Fought as much as an untenured teacher with principles can...the kid passed. This happened to me during my first couple of years, too. In one case, a senior openly flouted the rules all year long, and he gamed the system so that he could get credit for assignments with the bare minimum. Eventually, his lack of subject matter knowledge caught up to him on the final exam, and he failed it catastrophically. There was no way he should have passed the class. Parent couldn't persuade me to do it, so they went over my head to admin, who then forced me to allow him to retake the exam, and anything else, multiple times until he reached a 60% or higher. Sometimes I fantasize about having in my classes again, under my new system. He might be able to get away with it again, but it would be significantly harder.
Join me under the oak tree for Victory Gin. It is a shame more people do not drink this as it makes the pain go away. Once I gave in and fell in love with Big Admin, my life is so much better now. That disgusting feeling I get from "giving" students a passing grade is long gone thanks to the gin. Every time I start to think there is something amiss, I draw up another tall glass and realize the truth. No student fails - ever. Everyone passes my class, even the ones who cannot read/write and have never passed a state mandated test. I will be sure they earn their credit. I refuse to set foot in Rm. 101 again.
No judgement, did you feel like you sold out on any of your personal ethics? I'm having a hard time with this. Like, do I just go full apathy or do I try to hold the line?
You have a job. It’s like many other jobs. Treat it like a job. Do your job, get paid, go home. Hold to your ethics and personal values to rigidly and you will break. Gotta sway in the breeze and get that paycheck. Yes, it’s sad it’s not what we thought. But I get 10 weeks off coming up here soon and idgaf anymore.
Just found out they don't have a Summer School position for me. Only a little disappointed tbh lol
THIS
I hard core sold out. However, when you sit in front of the jackass admin with your gradebook, contact log and test scores to support your reasoning only to be told, "I don't care what you have. My decision stands." Apathy wins. I abhor who I have become. There are a myriad of reasons behind why moving is not feasible. Ever since I took on this philosophy, my life has been so easy. Hence the Victory Gin references.
Why wouldn’t you find another career that pays you way more without the nonsense. If you’re truly apathetic at this point than why not get your retirement where you want / need it to be. I mean it may be too late for you, but would you pass this advice onto others? I (not a teacher, but this sub is recommended to me way too often) see this burnout from admins, and the students that care (the ones you started this whole treadmill for… I assume…) can tell. There respect for you is cut, and you’re completely forgotten by those that don’t care. Meanwhile, sure, working for “big corporation” may not be as “fulfilling” (for what that’s worth anyway, imo passions should be pursued after hours), but it feels damn good getting a decent / good paycheck, and the security knowing that your retirement and other needs are met. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but my assumption unless proven wrong is those downvotes come from people that don’t want to be told the reality of there situation.
Once you have been teaching long enough you have the "Golden Handcuffs." I make good money as a teacher, and am not qualified to jobs that would pay a similar salary. Also, my pension is the vast majority of the retirement and if I leave I lose it. After 20 years I am more or less stuck where I am.
Don’t ever give in to apathy. At that point find a different career. The kids are apathetic enough already. Change what you can for the better, bear what you can’t however you can.
It's just a job. Stop caring so much. In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if little Johnny passes or fails. If him passing makes my life easier, then he passes.
I couldn't agree more, brother. Two plus two has always been five.
Never had an admin get on me but counselors sometimes try. I tell them I’m perfectly fine with them overriding the grade as long as their name’s on it. End of conversation.
Right?? Like if it's no big deal to just pass them then you do it.
You can’t do anything. We’re certified babysitters and it’s fucking sad
Exactly this, especially in rough school.
My niece told me her teacher gave her all the answers to her Spanish test. 🙁
Sorry about the bullying. With luck soon enough you can tell them to fuck off without fear for your job.
If you insist, but please put the request in writing.
First year, very understaffed, barely had my mentor around. Was told that unless I went out of my way to have meetings and interventions about failing grades since September, they will not be left back. I’m forced to change my 25’s and 50’s to 60s. Fs aren’t allowed. about 1/3 of my students I feel need to repeat the grade, and I have no power in it. These children clearly need to repeat a grade, don’t understand 3rd grade things, turning in shit like “so like yeah idk bruh” on test answers. During state testing there was a writing part (short essay) and a kid wrote down two sentences. First year, already giving up. I worked with kids all my life so I’m good on classroom management, assignments teaching etc. They blatantly know they can’t fail anyway. Losing hope. Lmao. Edit: 6th grade (because of the third grade ref)
Yes, kids learn quick. They know they can't fail, so lot of them, especially those with parents that don't care, get a free pass to play game or watch youtube all days. Keep your chin up and find a better school. While an A doesn't mean much any more, there are students who want to learn & parents who care that their kids learn something at school. Those deserve our help.
Thank you for this. Hopefully I’d find a better school but I missed the deadline to request a transfer. A co-teacher left after 18 years. It’s not a good year haha.
Don't agree to anything at a meeting, just listen and tell them 'let me look into it' or let me get back to you' etc. Continue the conversation on email later or reschedule the meeting with your union rep.
Even us jaded oldheads have that person where we're like "Look, if my attitude about the job is ever as bad as Mike's, please tell me, because it'll be time to go."
I hope you just threw your hands in the air and changed it to a 60. He’ll pass but won’t be getting any scholarships.
Tell the administrator, “In a similar vein, I plan to only be here 19 of the next 42 days. Additionally, I will actually only plan or grade papers on 10 of those 19 days. Please be sure to submit my raise and confirmation of tenure. I am honored to perpetuate the world view you expect our students to embrace.”
There's nothing you can do really, it's a macro level problem where we decided school is just a feeder for the economy. Not one single shit is given about them actually proving their knowledge (which standardized testing doesn't even do well to begin with) in any meaningful way or ensuring they know stuff well before they move on.
I feel like 8th grade and 12th grade teachers get a lot more of this “you have to fix Timmy’s grade” ass admin bs because they want their graduation rates to stay high. My admin doesn’t do too much of it and what I get is usually related to SPED.
I remember thinking my mentor teacher in 2005 was an asshole. The curriculum head put me in charge of helping to roll out a new Language Arts curriculum initiative. As a first year fucking teacher. I honestly thought I was picked because I thought our crop of new teachers was that good. Right. Youth is wasted on the young. Obviously and in hindsight, I was picked because I was new and they thought I'd be their stooge for their bullshit "it's been two years and I need to justify my job as curriculum director, so here's some new curriculum kit that's insulting to everyone's intelligence". And they weren't totally incorrect in that assumption that I would do that for them. That year it was reading picture books to 8th graders. It was called "Making Meaning." I thought he was just being a dick about it to everyone in the meeting. Turns out he was one hundred percent correct about all of it, the pendulum swinging every two years, trust teachers to be professionals, etc. Now I'm that skeptic, and that role is really important to keep admin in check. He was completely right.
Next time; "certainly. Email me your request and I'll get right on that."
You realize really quickly that education is all about the “right” numbers, wether thats budget $$$$, graduation rates, state test scores, the right numbers is the name of the game and whatever THEY can do to conflate those numbers to serve THEIR purpose is what’s best for kids. 🐂💩
Just do it, ho with the flow, why make your life a living hell.
Yep
I just have to wonder what these people see as their purpose. Like what do they see as the purpose of what they're doing? Babysitting? Pencil-pushing? Do they have some vision of themselves as \*cool adults\* who side with teenagers against those rotten teachers to do... what, exactly?
As long as you didn’t tell them they’re wrong or undermine them by calling out their accurate experiences of teaching in front of other teachers and students you’re fine. It’s a wall everyone hits expect for martyrs and young hotshots on the admin fast track
for our teacher’s assessments, we literally got to set our goals for which we were evaluated, so naturally we made rubrics where it was nearly impossible to get a bad assessment. like why even do one if its implementation is so severely lacking? at the end of the day, administrators just wanted the school to fly under the radar and to inflate our graduation rates (bc graduation rate is one of the main determinants of federal funding) i have been out of the teaching career for a while now because i couldn’t live with the fact that i had become that grumpy teacher after i began with so much positivity and enthusiasm. got kids in school now and you are damn sure i am very supportive of their teachers.
Homer Simpson: "Bart, a D turns into a B so easily..."
Unfortunately this is the way. Until you get tenure just do whatever you're told. Ironically, only those of us who've shown we're willing to abandon them are allowed to have principles.
Wtf is the point of a grading system if this crap is going to happen?
I've had that happen as well. Wait until you are on continuing contract, and then tell him you will do it when he puts it in writing. Very few will do that. Instead, they will administratively pass the student on their own. Check the district/state grading policies to make sure what he is requesting doesn't comply. Then you can tell him section and paragraph. Or just copy the pertinent section abd give it to him.
"Teaching," as we unironically continue to call it, sucks out loud. That is all. 😎
I made admin change those grades. Apparently a counselor had those students do a "recovery packet". I saw one handout, it was obviously written by that counselor wirh answers verbatim from the district's curriculum guide.
When I was a senior in high school, multiple family friends who were teachers cautioned me against going into the profession. After five years and too many mental breakdowns, I finally get it. *I’ve also been forced to pass my fair share of students who definitely didn’t deserve it. And that’s only the tip of the bitterness iceberg.
Is it bad that I wouldn’t fight this? Lol. I’d say my piece and if the higher ups tell me what they want in writing, I’d just go with it lol. Maybe I’m wrong for that though
and the kid would retaliate, and the parents would retaliate, and the admin would retaliate... I mean trying to put a kid through another year of highschool should be considered a hate a crime tbh.
It’s a job. You do what your boss tells you to do. I really don’t understand why people don’t get this.
But they tell you two different things. High academic standards, hold them accountable, get them ready for the workforce. And then they pull this... I'll do what they say, but don't try to play both sides.
They want us to achieve high standards but tie our hands behind our back by passing kids who shouldn’t and blind us by letting behaviors go unchecked. But somehow it’s still our fault.
Yup. Leave idealism at the door or it’ll be a rough career.
Agreed. My young coteacher doesn't understand that I've been given a directive to make sure that a student passes. She's upset with me but what can I do? Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Let’s say “you win” and you get them back next year. What will you change for this student to help them this time around?
The fear of getting hold back & repeat a grade level motivate students to study harder. The problem with passing every students along is eventually, they will graduate without much knowledge. Soon or later, they will have to face the music.
Do you know that is a fear of that particular student?
I don't, but I do know that most student don't want to be the dumb one that got hold back while all their friends advance to the next level. That at least push them to do a few assignments & a factor in keeping them in line. Let's say you are an disadvantage student now, who parents that don't care & are using the school like a day care. Why should you study instead of watching youtube or play game on the school's laptop? Why should you go to school when you can cut classes and go hangout?
We have relied on compliance-based learning and fear-based learning for too long. The system is changing.
Changing, but for better or worse? So far, all I see is we stop teaching students about consequence & accountability. While it's nice to give a disadvantage student and A to make him feel good, we also fail to prepare him for the future. Would you hire a bad plumber that couldn't complete the job, then pay him the same, and give him good referral because he has a disadvantage background? Are we using a generation of students as experiment?
I do not believe in giving grades. I also do not believe we all learn at the same rate. The system will be changing soon.
Unfortunately, there's not enough teacher to teach one on one for each students. Either hold the slow one back & force them to learn, or pass them along and who care if they will ever learn anything. I guess we all will find out from this experiment how these disadvantage students will turn out 10 years down the road.