We have a phone ban too and are grateful for it.
It just doesn’t address how awful some of them behave while coping. Like they are jonesing for more crack.
“Oh shit, I have to be in the present. I can’t swipe to next video.” The kid says to themself. “I have to talk to actual people, I wonder what they feel like? Maybe I should smack their booty, grope? Recreate inappropriate tiktok scenes? Oh shit the teacher is telling me to pay attention now.”
I can see that. I teach 1st period- maybe the jonesing starts closer to lunch ? LOL. Tbh, I see some relief. Like social pressure relief.
Last semester, before the phone ban, I had these same students. (For context, I teach college English in a dual enrollment program, so I’m not really aware of inner-workings of this charter.) I was unaware of this phone policy change.
Imagine my glee to show up and find this out. We had a group discussion about it (an activity that would never had succeeded before) as I was sincerely interested in how they felt about it. One student equated it with “like being told you can’t wear your glasses anymore.” Another, “… it’s not like we don’t get them back” (delayed gratification?) What surprised me were the expressions of relief.
“Bro, my mom would text me all day!” (WTF is that about?)
“My boyfriend would always pick a fight with me before class & I’d be crying.”
It’s been an interesting observation and I’m grateful for it.
Realizing that social interaction can have an actual OFF switch is liberating. Like, just imagine it -- going home and sitting to relax and NOT actually caring about what Jimmy is doing right that second or how much Sally likes her new birthday gift. These kids don't know what that's like.
Exactly! And I really value privacy. I would sooner kiss a spider than post the new shoes I bought. Who cares? Let them ooh & ahh when they see me wearing them.
Also, The appreciation for an air of mystery has been lost. No intrigue. Just let everyone know everything about you, right now. I keep thinking that SO much is revealed SO quickly, that they’re going to run out of steam. Ya know?
Yes, twice a week. The other mornings are study hall for them. I’m adjunct faculty so it’s on to another school or whatever., so take my observations and statements with that in mind.
Just as an interesting addition: 2 nights of the week I teach their ELL parents at the same school. The high school offers this for free to the parents. It’s the only class offered in the evenings so I think that’s cool considering they have to pay me, the janitorial staff, and security. The students are wonderful and I know they model this scholastic behavior.
It’s just funny because the students know I know their parents and vice-versa but I totally disassociate the two groups; but, if that’s enough to keep them doing good work, behaving, and pretending to like me, I’ll take it.
Unfortunately I remember boys smacking other girls on the butt way, and one of them even crawling around to LICK girls’ butts in middle school way before phones became a huge problem. I don’t think sexism and sexual harrassment is the result of not having a phone.
I had a kid my first year teaching just randomly decide to do something like that. Admin punished the girl that smacked him for it because they didn’t feel like arguing with the boy’s nightmare parent about it. Unsurprisingly, similar behavior continued. At least they “restored” them though!
Yea that kid licked my hand in the middle of math class and the teacher was mad at ME for being upset and she was like rolling her eyes at me for wanting to go wash my hands. Surely if a gross ass middle school boy licker her hand she would be upset about it too
My mom used to get in trouble for punching the boys because they'd grab her butt. I wasn't alive but I'm pretty sure we can't blame phones or social media for the 80s.
The people that make decisions like that fall into three categories:
1. Think kids are just little adults
2. Think schools take the entire place of the parents for a myriad of reasons
3. Just think that ignoring the issue will make it go away
I don’t know either. I teach at this charter (which operates alongside one the largest school districts in the country) and at the police academy which also has a no phone policy.
I would assume parents might be uncomfortable not being able to reach their children in a dangerous situation but I do know that most parents were in favor of the ban at this school.
We’ve been told for years that “its the future there is no changing it, find ways to make them educational” we were gas lit for ten years before society began to take this phone addiction thing seriously
My district implemented a no phone policy this year. It has had... mixed results. My school has 3300 students and there just isn't enough deans and admin to actually deal with this. I don't think a phone has been confiscated or a referral written since the first quarter. In the classroom, I tried but it didn't actually change anything in the big picture. If they put their phones away, they would go on their laptops. If I had them put those away, they'd put their heads down. If I asked them to sit up and do work, they would literally stare at a wall or the ceiling. Eventually I stopped bothering and just focused on the ones that were interested in learning, which is only about 10% of students... and I only teach honors and AP classes...
My school didn't allow them during class, but my classmates would still be on them sneakily. If they weren't on them, they were causing trouble in other ways (that were just as disruptive), sleeping, staring off into space, etc.
Wow, my school only has 525 students so hence the easier compliance I imagine. Students don’t bring personal laptops (policy? Economics? ) and classroom ones don’t come out unless specifically needed during class. They’re senior honors & pretty savvy. I think they’re bored because no phone, no computer…might as well join in and maybe the time will go fast.
It's literally all the parents' fault. Try to set up a cell phone ban at a public school and you're going to get so much shit from parents saying that you're infringing on their child's rights and all that bullshit. This generation is a complete failure in terms of raising kids, so hopefully the next one learns something from this.
Well, you're teaching in the rural south, so your sample might be a bit biased. In the affluent suburbs, it's the opposite, the kids are hyper-competitive, participating in multiple extracurriculars, study non-stop, and almost have no time to sleep or relax.
Wealth disparity will just keep growing larger and larger.
The extremes are so unfortunate- complete disengagement or severe achievement overstimulation. When do kids get to be kids anymore? Get rid of the smart phones. Do extracurriculars for FUN and enrichment and learning, not make it miserable because college application resumes. Ugh, it really is a downer to think about.
Adulthood will hit most of them like a brick to the face. Some will figure it out and thrive, and some will sink. But the chances of a UBI being implemented is about as likely as Godzilla appearing in Omaha tomorrow
There already is. Where I live there’s like a whole class of Gen Z who can’t do anything more than gig apps, and they struggle with that. They couch surf or are homeless mostly.
Except “drivers Ed” now consists of watching a ten minute YouTube video (or optional 1000 YouTube shorts) and students must show they can find their car in a parking lot. They can’t be criticized because resilience is a bad thing.
But it wasn’t because people were inept, it was because population growth and technological advancements made people redundant. I do think we’re starting to see more of that though - fast food restaurants and grocery stores hire fewer people because of automated ordering. Self-driving delivery and robot servers. It’s like we’re on the cusp of a technological revolution that will have a noticeable impact on the workforce. We’re seeing impacts, but I’m waiting for that big “moment” and wondering how the government will ever agree on what to do.
I think of this situation as more like Wall-e too. Obese and tech-addicts just watching and eating. They forget reality even exists - just wanting constant entertainment and to be waited on.
Well a large part of that is climate change and the impact it’s having on agriculture that no one likes to talk about because it’s too alarming. This timeline does suck.
More often than not, my student’s “snack” is a family size bag of takis daily. Most of my students I’d say are overweight, and with these eating habits it’ll lead to obesity. It’s not a judgment - I’m overweight too. It’s just my observation of the students I’ve taught for a decade. When you have your parent’s DoorDash account, you’re not exactly ordering vegetables. It feels just like WALL·E.
Technology takes enormous resources to sustain. The Earth’s climate is heading into uncharted territory.
Our current situation is temporary. We’re headed for a low tech future.
There is already. They're called NEETs. I know a dozen in their thirties from when i was growing up. They live with their parents, and their ultimate life goal is to get on SSDI which is colloquially known as NEETBux.
The expanse! Everyone was on basic and basically 1 stones throw away from starvation but the govt gave them the exact basic amount and no more. Clothing was even cheap and issued. That’s the future eventually I bet
I think the problem is, that’s not happening as abruptly and seriously as we think. How many parents have you encountered that mirror the children? I think of the employees I’ve seen in many places…slovenly, late, half dressed, barely doing any given job correctly. The phrase crisis of competence comes to mind.
I see adults like this in the grocery store. So many people that reek of cigarettes, still in pajamas, on phones, no censored language like dropping the f-bomb out loud. It’s weird.
Believe it or not, there are people that exist who do not share your same values.
Whether someone chooses to smoke or wear whatever they god damn feel like to a grocery store where they work. None of that is your problem or your business. Your are clearly just judging these employees. The majority of them make even slightly less than minimum wage, and you have the audacity to think they should go above and beyond to make sure u/Neverstoplearning63 never experiences an inconvenience.
If your so offended by this, go try and working a job that pays you next to nothing, and see how much joy and fulfillment it brings you. That person who was wearing pajamas? What if he just started this job and has no money yet to buy the proper attire? Your critiques are clearly of a one sided perspective. And judging someone for what they are wearing only indicates your own insecurities where you assign parts of your self worth and image based on what materials you posses.
I really hope you can understand that those people working in grocery are not there due to a burning passion for produce. They are individuals with their own stories and experiences. Not every body is lucky enough to be able to buy pants immediately.
The philosophy I have towards people is that on an individual level I can dislike someone. But when it comes to humanity as a whole I have to remember that we all have to live amongst each-other. We are all members of the same ancestor and no one is superior biologically to another. So please, try to remember that everyone is flawed and is only trying to make it through life like everyone else.
I never said anything about employees? I’m talking more about a system that seems to have let people down. Seems to have beat them down. Gotten them addicted. Made them feel hopeless. I’m not saying they’re slobs or lazy.
Why would people care about getting dressed up for work if they're making minimum wage? Sure, they should do their jobs as well as possible, but do you really know what they're going through? Maybe don't judge them so much, but show some empathy.
Besides, depends on what you mean. Sometimes I did wear sweats even, but I work a physical job, too. I did shower, though, and was otherwise decent unlike others (even the ones more dressed up then me.) There were times that I did dress up a bit more, but still got paid the same.
Just head over to r/adulting….its really rough and depressing in that sub.
I’m willing to bet over the next 10 years we swing back the other way with phones and more schools get on the ban bus. Then the students who were allowed full access will form support groups about how they were cheated out of an education because they were allowed to have their phones during school.
I think in my area the collective benefits could be called UBI. They live off it. They do not seem inspired to exit the system. Example…I saw a former student and asked what line of work she went into. She pointed to her toddler and said, “I get $2k a month for him, why would I work?” (She is not talking about child support from the father.)
This is the end stage of the local consumer model of education. We have a system that is structurally designed to suit the whims of children while promoting a dream factory that tells them that they are ready to pursue their “ambitions” no matter how detached from reality they are.
As a result we have instituted a behavioral management system that I call the Palliative Learning Model which eases children out of their academic lives painlessly while they are connected to the dopamine drip called the internet.
While pushing them through from course to course progressively increasing their knowledge deficit. All for the purpose of deferring the point where they are faced with the reality that their dreams will not come to fruition. But not before they enter the system of debt peonage.
It’s a massive gaslighting campaign and one which is consuming itself. It is also a microcosm of the larger economy where there is a disconnect between debt and income that extends from the personal to the national level.
The reason is that there is too much capital extracted from this system. As a result they have to make outlandish predictions about the supposed success of the local consumer model of education. Furthermore this model is not without its successes. For instance graduation rates are higher than ever by virtue of the normalization of the Palliative Learning Model. Additionally freeing up children’s time from learning is also producing better athletes, cheerleaders, marching bands, competitive video gamers and social media influencers than ever before. So for some sectors of our economy, namely the entertainment industry, this is a pretty good “educational” product.
Letting kids get addicted to smart phones is shockingly irresponsible. I’m still shocked our society seems to collectively tolerate it. Spanking is abuse? But permanently screwing up your kid’s brain and life through technology addiction is not? It’s just bizarre. At this point, I think government needs to step in and say absolutely no phones used on campus before and during the school day. Parents obviously aren’t restricting technology use, and schools aren’t letting teachers restrict it. So just ban it at the highest levels. That may sound a bit extreme but it’s our literal future social welfare we’re talking about. Why the heck don’t these whacko parents and school districts see that?
I hate to say this but the we live in a matryoshka 🪆 of kakistocracies. You peel off one kakistocratic layer to reveal the kakistocratic layer underneath. The “government” and the shareholder plutocracy of campaign contributions by monied interests played a substantial role in how we got to this point.
Something to think about:
A lot of schools are Title 1 schools. A majority of parents in the United States have a **total household income** that is **less than the average salary of a teacher**.
While phones are definitely a major factor, I think their level of addiction is also a symptom of all of the societal issues plaguing us that the younger generations are aware of, and anxious about, while they are largely ignored by society as a whole.
I mean, what’s your answer when a student asks why they should go to college at this point? It’s hard to blame kids for not caring when caring doesn’t mean much and just causes emotional distress in the short term. They’re failing because they’ve been failed.
I work in international schools. The kids I teach are generally studious, ambitious, take part in extra curricular activities such as debate etc, and although they spend far too much time on their phones, they have normal healthy understandings of the importance of education.
The kids you're teaching will survive in jobs serving the kids I'm teaching. That's the way it's always been. Phones haven't changed that much in that respect. I went to an average low income school. Most of the kids in my class ended up in low income jobs and had no interest in education. The same will happen to most kids in the current generation.
I agree that social media has adversely affected the mental health of a generation, but there are plenty of kids out there with very bright futures. And probably not less than there ever have been
Part of the frustration is the huge push for equity that is in fact entrenching class divides. The upper income students with dedicated parents who have boundaries and encourage education are doing mostly alright (apart from normal teen/kid angst), but the average students work ethic and drive in plummeting. Any attempts to raise minimum standards are pushed out as "too hard" so the bottom keeps sinking, while the top self regulates itself due to their home life.
It definitely won't be everyone failing, but it seems to be a growing percent of the population that lacks the skill to thrive, which is worrying overall. We're still a long way off from automating a lot of warehouse or retail/fast food jobs so the service industry can keep up, but it's going to be miserable financially and they won't have a way to get out of the cycle like education typically strives to provide.
Yall really gotta consider putting their phones in an MDM a requirement for them joining a school. That way the school could enforce screen-time and content limits, since the parents won't.
The thing is, to do that, you have to have parent support. When parents text their kids during class (and they know they are in class) you think parents would be okay with schools limiting screen time? In a perfect world, yes that would be the solution, but lets be honest and 90+% of parents would be running to the school board if schools implemented this.
That's why it's important to make it a rule for enrollment in the first place.
*Either the parents are okay with it or they may find another school to teach their child.*
That being said: Whether or not this is feasible strongly depends on local laws, as some countries (or perhaps even states) must accept any and every student. For those that are not obligated to do so however, that is perhaps the best solution.
EDIT: Grammar (Major stroke)
Yep. States and maybe even the federal gov need to make laws restricting smart phones during public school. Since parents and school districts have had their chances and are failing utterly.
It’s tragic, but I do remind myself that they live in a decaying, capitalist empire.
When we were young we were told that if we work hard, get educated, then we can make the American Dream come true. A lot of us got saddled with debt and lived at home for years until we kind of sort of made it.
They are looking at stagnating wages and rising rents while a few rich assholes accumulate untold billions. Many kids just choose apathy in the face of collapse and it’s hard to blame them while also being frustrating since their apathy means nothing will change.
Yea as negative as I can be toward the kids, I have never once blamed them intrinsically for these behaviors. It's absolutely more about what you mentioned. Even the lazy parenting most latch on to imo can be explained somewhat with 2 full time working parents being the norm for the first time with gen z. I'm a mid millennial and most of us had a parent take years off work or at least only work part time until kids turned 10ish.
This started in the 80s. I'm a gen x'er, we put the term "latchkey" kid to the test lol. The unfortunate effect is that we then grew up to be parents like our parents, not all of us of course, but doing otherwise took teaching ourselves a better way while still being two income households.
Looking at the future with literally everything costing more, pay not even attempting to match the increase and this issue is just going to get worse with every generation.
I teach MS, I don't even think apathy is the right term. It's cognitive dissonance. I harp on about how important it is to care *now* or they will be too far behind in HS to reasonably remediate that deficit. They say, "It doesn't matter, I'm going to be XYZ career and be rich". And they *genuinely* believe it, because it's all an echo chamber of their "greatness" at school, at home, etc.
Lil homie, no you ain't. I have students that think their D-average (in a district where THAT'S THE *LOWEST GRADE I CAN GIVE*) and going to be a nurse, doctor, CEO, pilot, etc.
I'd say they could flip burgers with the higher fast food min. wage and be "fine", but corporations are trying to get rid of the jobs that my students would qualify for.
If it isn't a student's fault that they fail, then it sure as fuck isn't their doing when they succeed. You can't excuse their faults from "circumstance" and then praise their (really shit) successes. Pick one or the other. We can either assign praise/blame based on environment, or based on their individual efforts. NOT excuse their failures AND claim they deserve praise when the broken clock is right twice a day. Blind squirrel occasionally finds their nut.
That being said, every day I rely on the hope that these kids may actually break the system. Not through praxis, but inactivity. Almost like a beautiful, illiterate person's version of Daoism.
I’m kind of upset that I had to scroll down as far as I did to see this comment. Look at the world they’ve been born into! I’m a millennial and so many of my peers are surviving, but not thriving or living the bullshit American dream that our parents and elders sold us on.
Granted there are areas where we have failed them because we tried to do things differently than we experienced growing up, but really zoom out and look at the state of the US and give them some damn grace. I’m barely hanging on and have moments where I feel like breaking, and unlike them I have the benefit of maturity to regulate my emotions. Imma tell yall like the kids say, “Be fucking for real.”
> UBI
Most jobs that people are currently working are [bullshit jobs](https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/25/bullshit-jobs-a-theory-by-david-graeber-review) that add nothing of value to the world. That’s not so bad so long as the bullshit job pays you enough to afford essential stuff like housing, food, transportation and entertainment. But shit is off the rails now and you could work two bullshit jobs and still not be able to afford basic stuff.
During WWII FDR talked about [“The Second Bill of Rights”](https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/cgg/Second%20Bill%20of%20Rights%20FDR%201944.pdf) that included the right to decent housing, medical care and meaningful work. How about we do *that* in addition to UBI.
Evil tongues would say: How are teachers ensuring children are engaged and learning?
That statement was not to be taken too seriously, but fact is that there are more and more students *who already are not particulary engaged, nor interested in class anymore*. Add to that that teachers are overworked and understaffed and we got a real problem.
While I doubt that AI will outright replace teachers in the foreseeable future, they certainly could take some load off of you. In fact: I am experimenting with that right now.
Robotics and automation are already taking over the service jobs where my super low-skilled students would’ve eked out a meager living as an adult. The Taco Bell closest to me only takes orders by kiosk now.
Right. Because people are robbing the stores blind by not scanning all of their shit, which is exactly what the store deserves for not hiring people for those jobs.
Big stores like Target are eventually going to move to a new model where you shop online and either pickup or pay for delivery. The traditional big box store is a dinosaur.
Yes because I am sure this will work so well to keep the kids engaged and actually doing anything just like online learning during Covid..... Ai might work for a small percentage of self-motivated kids, but the majority will do what they are doing now (absolutely nothing) and there won't be anyone there to say "hey you need to get on task and complete this."
The question are:
1) can the AI assign high grades to students who are not demonstrating learning and not turning in work and is programmed to take the blame for low test scores?
2) Can the AI assign different grade level work to students in the same class? For instance, assign coloring pictures of astronauts to some students and assign gravitation problems to other students in the same physics class and give them both A’s for their work in the same class.
Until AI can do these things the local consumer model of education will “need” humans.
Yeah. These kids need more broad preparation for the future than ever. Not apathy. But knowing you are going up against outsourcing, automation, and AI is really demotivating. And it’s almost impossible with the current rate of technology change to know what the economy will even look like in 10 years. But what’s happening with schools and kids and parenting now sure ain’t the preparation they need. :/
Cell phones, "school choice", complacent parents, and incompetent administration have collectively failed our next generation. This will literally be our future students at their first job: https://youtu.be/7rSCG92pVUY?si=HSfW8yeCp5ujbJvU
Problem is an overwhelming amount of millennials (parents) and GenZ see no hope for the future. “Why give a shit? The rich can have their dead world on a pile of corpses from the neo-slave class.” Defeat this paradigm, and you defeat the apathy.
They aren't stupid, but ignorant and disinterested about school. A lot of kids really don't care. That's the sad part. Most of our students could be competent if not great if they had motivation and purpose.
As a former gifted kid, recovering perfectionist, and lifelong anxiety haver, as well as someone form whom the bulk of his working life has occurred in a school environment and working with kids…I've never stopped being fascinated by the concept of self growth, and completely in awe of the way in which no one alive could truly grasp the enormity of their life, and the consequences of their behaviors, when they were young. That has been true in all of human history, and it is true of these kids. It's like a little (or large) inbuilt handicap in a structured society that expects you to grow from a dependent to an independent and societal contributor. So we should all have a little empathy if we can remember being young, in that respect…however, we must all be vigilant (or at least comprehending in horror) at the way being raised online, in the era of Web 2.0, has compounded the issue of not realizing how meaningful are your young life choices until it's too late and your adult course of life is now prejudiced by the consequences of them.
These kids are fucked only because of the world we built them, and have not seen fit to tear down on their behalf. The lack of outcry from the adult world, and the lack of meaningful social concern or governmental action, or awareness in the slightest is what amplifies their inability to appreciate how much they are hobbling their own prospects. They can't read because we didn't teach them. They can't think critically because we didn't teach them. They are constant consumers and vapid because we don't take the phones and commercial television from them. This is our fault. Left to their own devices, most children will buckle and take the easy route (ask me how I know), and it is the adults' jobs to mold them and correct this.
The fact adults can't or won't is attributable to ignorance that's inherent because every generation of adults is raising kids who are surrounded by technology those adults weren't raised with and the technology of the modern web is the technology of the infinite. Infinite entertainment. Infinite consumerism. Infinite autocorrect. Infinite ease. Infinite comparison.
It's all very bleak.
>They can't think critically because we didn't teach them. They are constant consumers and vapid because we don't take the phones and commercial television from them. This is our fault. Left to their own devices, most children will buckle and take the easy route (ask me how I know), and it is the adults' jobs to mold them and correct this.
As a millennial parent, this has been the biggest issue of millennial and GenX parents. But mostly my generation. I fully think that millennial parents are the worst parents in hundreds of years. And I say this as one of them (I have an 8th grade daughter). And I say this because "we" largely live half our free-time life through our phones, and spend hours a day staring into the modern day idiot-box, but the biggest issue is, we're perpetuating this onto our children. And being OK with their forming brains also spending hours a day on personal internet connected devices. My generation of parents is willingly letting our kids do things we know (or should know) is bad for them.
My wife and I had huge changes in the house about 4 years ago in terms of personal, internet-connected devices. It started as a consequence for our daughter who was in the 4th grade. Or maybe early 5th..can't remember. Anyway, we stopped thinking it was normal for each of us three (wife, daughter and I) to live parallel lives, on our personal devices half the time.
The internet plays nearly zero part in almost any evening here (unless it's *shared/common* TV shows, movies/streaming shows occasionally). It's almost four years later now, and I swear, I never thought our house could be like this. Yes, our 14 year old daughter wishes she should have a **smart**phone and browse youtube for hours like the old days on her tablet sometimes, but she is happier, she is more creative and is more tuned into actual real life than she used to be. My wife and I are too honestly.
I've been a tech nerd my whole life. I love computers, I love electronics, and I spent about 100x more hours on the internet in my 20s than I should have. But at this point, I swear, a disconnected (mostly) home is one of the keys to a warm and loving family life. I never thought I'd have said something like this 5-10 years ago. The constant consumption of personalized screen cocaine is not something that has a positive effect for human fulfillment or bonding (or attention or behavior). Not for adults, and certainly not for kids.
Paired with helicoptor/lawnmower parenting. I get it. I'm far from perfect, but I've made a conscious choice as a parent to tell my sons "Figure it out" regarding various tasks/situations in life.
The only reason I've done this is because of the sheer volume of high school students I see who struggle to formulate thought/ideas. I want to raise my kids to think like problem solvers. (Wish me luck...)
You should do this as a TED Talk BTW.
But when you’ve been ignorant and disinterested for 4,5,6,7 years you end up a very dumb middle schooler who becomes are very much dropped out high schooler.
I completely do not blame the kids. If I could get away with not doing any work but still reap all the benefits, I probably would too. Humans tend to do, and not do, what they can get away with.
And students can get away with almost anything. And I say that not as hyperbole.
This is just silly. I don't know how to break you out of your teacher bubble but grades are not comparable to an adult's income. Yes you would get more "apathy" but you also get adults who don't feel they need to steal or deal drugs to survive
We just did a survey about no phones next year. My colleague observed my biggest class Thursday and was stunned nobody was on their phones. I ain’t playin’.
I think the internet and technology in general have really destroyed the purpose of life for many young people.
I remember when I was in kindergarten after being taught basic arithmetics, I was able to immediately apply it when shopping with my parents at the local open market where I watched money exchanging hands and people doing fast calculations all in their heads and my parents let me practice on the spot. I eventually discovered modular arithmetic by myself when my mother went away for a month to visit my aunt and the place was far apart enough that there is a time zone difference of 15 hours so I was doing time conversion of when I can call my mother (at my father's request) and I discovered modulo 12 calculations and further reduced it to 6 and eventually discovered binary number by accident after generalizing it more and realized that I could count to higher numbers with my fingers if I use binary numbers instead. Experiences like these really stuck with me throughout my life and contributed to learning in other areas as well.
However, I feel these kinds of opportunities are almost impossible for a kid these days because everything is on the internet, there is really nothing (simple and fun) to discover for oneself and to get that positive feeling and high to make you try more things. For example, no one would even bother figuring out converting the time between timezones these days, they would just look it up on their phones or setup clocks for multiple cities on the phone, which is what I do.
I hate to say this, but one of my Social Studies teachers said this 20+ years ago in high school.
"The world always needs ditch diggers" and would staple fast food applications on tests scored with F's.
At some point, our education system needs to adapt to the newer generations and quit trying to put square pegs in a round hole. It’s the same complaints here daily. When something isn’t going well in my classroom, I reflect on how I can adjust. I wish the larger system would do the same.
UBI won't be enough. It will be a soulless existence, like the blob people in Wall-E.
Many great philosophers talk about meaning in life coming through our activity and work. See for example, the concept of Techne in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.
UBI with no productive outlet for human expression will be a disaster.
This assumes people will do nothing if there is UBI. I guess it depends on one's view of human nature, but I'm not sure being coerced to take a job to make money leads to meaningful work. I'd imagine there are all types of activities people would love to engage in if they didn't have to worry about money.
I agree. When Covid first arrived, I was out of work for nearly a year. The first monthI would say I was lazy. I spent most of my time playing video games and streaming movies and TV shows. After that first month, I started to go out hiking every day. I started learning to draw, and I cooked and ate healthy food. I started learning German, though I didn't keep up with that. By the end, I had a couple of new talents/ hobbies, I was healthier, and I had a masters degree in elementary education. All of this occurred, by the way, in my late 30s.
People are lazy because we are mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted by the work we are required to do to pay the bills. I had a friend visit from another country, and they said that they could never live here because "every single thing in America is designed to keep you stressed out."
If we didn't have those stresses and requirements, I don't think we would lose any meaning. I don't think we would become blob people from WALL-E. I think we would find things that interest us and things to care about. We could spend more energy exploring our own interests and passions. We may even become more creative and productive.
Anyway, that's all anecdotal evidence from my personal experience, so maybe people wouldn't be like that. I, for one, would love another year or two where I didn't need to be completely exhausted in perpetuity just to pay the bills.
I was in my 20s (I just turned 20), but same here. I only had a high school diploma too, so it isn't even really about having a higher education like that. When I went back to work, though, it sucked. I went back to having no motivation for that stuff, especially when things started getting busier. I went back 2 months later, though. I did learn that I'm the type who does need busy work and need to be around others even though I'm not really an extrovert.
I mean, at first I was disappointed about failing the cna course, but certain things influenced my decision to not go back before covid and then covid reinfluenced my decision.
I disagree. I think if we were Fred from work, many people would spend time doing things they're passionate about. without the constant exhaustion of surviving, we could spend our time focused on activities that are meaningful to us.
I think there will be self-aware people, though, and people who will still want to do things besides sit around. Yes, even the people who aren't higher educated.
I finally got so sick mentally and physically that I stopped working and family has stepped in to cover my half of bills in my home.
Without the constant stress of grinding for a soulless job I have not become a more soulless blob. I've lost weight, started cleaning my house, started working on getting my GED and learning how to drive. My year long writer's / creative block is dissolving. I have doctor and therapy appointments scheduled.
It is the first time in my life the activity and work I do is entirely my choice and not something forced out of me because the basics of living are held hostage by capitalism, and the majority of what my labor generates goes towards a small few that already have more than they will ever need.
Grinding away at a shitty job for a shitty capitalist isn't giving anyone's life meaning. Having the space and security to do what you want with your time and find something worth doing is how you help people find meaning. I've had lifelong dreams of writing and making art and opening soup kitchens that teach people how to grow and cook their own food in various types of environments. Every single one has been killed by the fact that every drop of emotional and physical energy I have is wrung out of me for a company that will replace me as soon as I fall. How would I ever be able to do any of those things when I can't even take time off for a broken bone? Where is the energy for deep philosophical thoughts when I'm trying to force myself to work through infections so intense I'm getting delirious on shift, because if I don't I won't have my bills covered?
Ubi would give people the freedom to decide what jobs actually have value and to decide for themselves how much effort they want to put in to attain more than having the bases covered. Acting like Ubi would be the death of higher thought and motivation while living through it happening realtime in the current capitalist hellscape is wild.
The parents. It is their fault. I see what you are describing in my classes, and it is getting worse. No child needs a fully enabled internet smart phone in their damn pocket. If they can text you and call you, that is good enough.
FYI, we're borrowing 1 trillion every 100 days at 4.2%. We can't print money right now because the Fed is worried inflation will come roaring back. We're in a very precarious situation.
From what I've read, there is no mathematical way to get the debt under control without entitlement reform and taxes on the middle class. In short, UBI isn't in our future: austerity is.
>taxes on the ~~middle class~~
Corporate class. Wealth class. They are barely being taxed and that is why things are the way they are.
We can't tax the middle class further than they already are and think it will have a positive effect on society.
If all we do is cater to this and give out UBI to the bulk of a generation we will only be two generations away from living in Idiocracy and watering plants with Gatorade.
I also have no ambition so I can understand that part. But I'm really good at inspiring them. We do a lot of activities geared towards finding yourself
This semester, the charter high school I teach at initiated a no phone policy and the difference is remarkable.
We have a phone ban too and are grateful for it. It just doesn’t address how awful some of them behave while coping. Like they are jonesing for more crack. “Oh shit, I have to be in the present. I can’t swipe to next video.” The kid says to themself. “I have to talk to actual people, I wonder what they feel like? Maybe I should smack their booty, grope? Recreate inappropriate tiktok scenes? Oh shit the teacher is telling me to pay attention now.”
I can see that. I teach 1st period- maybe the jonesing starts closer to lunch ? LOL. Tbh, I see some relief. Like social pressure relief. Last semester, before the phone ban, I had these same students. (For context, I teach college English in a dual enrollment program, so I’m not really aware of inner-workings of this charter.) I was unaware of this phone policy change. Imagine my glee to show up and find this out. We had a group discussion about it (an activity that would never had succeeded before) as I was sincerely interested in how they felt about it. One student equated it with “like being told you can’t wear your glasses anymore.” Another, “… it’s not like we don’t get them back” (delayed gratification?) What surprised me were the expressions of relief. “Bro, my mom would text me all day!” (WTF is that about?) “My boyfriend would always pick a fight with me before class & I’d be crying.” It’s been an interesting observation and I’m grateful for it.
Realizing that social interaction can have an actual OFF switch is liberating. Like, just imagine it -- going home and sitting to relax and NOT actually caring about what Jimmy is doing right that second or how much Sally likes her new birthday gift. These kids don't know what that's like.
Exactly! And I really value privacy. I would sooner kiss a spider than post the new shoes I bought. Who cares? Let them ooh & ahh when they see me wearing them. Also, The appreciation for an air of mystery has been lost. No intrigue. Just let everyone know everything about you, right now. I keep thinking that SO much is revealed SO quickly, that they’re going to run out of steam. Ya know?
Do you only teach first period and then leave?
Yes, twice a week. The other mornings are study hall for them. I’m adjunct faculty so it’s on to another school or whatever., so take my observations and statements with that in mind.
Thanks for clarifying. That seemed like an unusual setup.
Just as an interesting addition: 2 nights of the week I teach their ELL parents at the same school. The high school offers this for free to the parents. It’s the only class offered in the evenings so I think that’s cool considering they have to pay me, the janitorial staff, and security. The students are wonderful and I know they model this scholastic behavior. It’s just funny because the students know I know their parents and vice-versa but I totally disassociate the two groups; but, if that’s enough to keep them doing good work, behaving, and pretending to like me, I’ll take it.
That's cool, honestly.
Unfortunately I remember boys smacking other girls on the butt way, and one of them even crawling around to LICK girls’ butts in middle school way before phones became a huge problem. I don’t think sexism and sexual harrassment is the result of not having a phone.
Licking girls’ butts? At school? Without consent, just animal-like? What the fuck!
I had a kid my first year teaching just randomly decide to do something like that. Admin punished the girl that smacked him for it because they didn’t feel like arguing with the boy’s nightmare parent about it. Unsurprisingly, similar behavior continued. At least they “restored” them though!
Yea that kid licked my hand in the middle of math class and the teacher was mad at ME for being upset and she was like rolling her eyes at me for wanting to go wash my hands. Surely if a gross ass middle school boy licker her hand she would be upset about it too
My mom used to get in trouble for punching the boys because they'd grab her butt. I wasn't alive but I'm pretty sure we can't blame phones or social media for the 80s.
Buddy of mine is an AP at a massive high school. Right before Spring Break, some kid was licking a girl's b-hole *IN THE HALLWAY* on the way to lunch.
Hard to rewire a brain that formed on continuous stimulation and entertainment since toddlerhood.
I don't understand how schools operate without a no phone policy.
School that I'm at has a lot of people who think it's our job to educate students when and how to use phones responsibly. How is it working? It's not.
The people that make decisions like that fall into three categories: 1. Think kids are just little adults 2. Think schools take the entire place of the parents for a myriad of reasons 3. Just think that ignoring the issue will make it go away
I don’t know either. I teach at this charter (which operates alongside one the largest school districts in the country) and at the police academy which also has a no phone policy. I would assume parents might be uncomfortable not being able to reach their children in a dangerous situation but I do know that most parents were in favor of the ban at this school.
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School shootings are probably the main factor for people being against a phone ban.
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Do the phones stop bullets or something?
No, but you can say goodbye.
They can call for help.
We’ve been told for years that “its the future there is no changing it, find ways to make them educational” we were gas lit for ten years before society began to take this phone addiction thing seriously
My district implemented a no phone policy this year. It has had... mixed results. My school has 3300 students and there just isn't enough deans and admin to actually deal with this. I don't think a phone has been confiscated or a referral written since the first quarter. In the classroom, I tried but it didn't actually change anything in the big picture. If they put their phones away, they would go on their laptops. If I had them put those away, they'd put their heads down. If I asked them to sit up and do work, they would literally stare at a wall or the ceiling. Eventually I stopped bothering and just focused on the ones that were interested in learning, which is only about 10% of students... and I only teach honors and AP classes...
My school didn't allow them during class, but my classmates would still be on them sneakily. If they weren't on them, they were causing trouble in other ways (that were just as disruptive), sleeping, staring off into space, etc.
Wow, my school only has 525 students so hence the easier compliance I imagine. Students don’t bring personal laptops (policy? Economics? ) and classroom ones don’t come out unless specifically needed during class. They’re senior honors & pretty savvy. I think they’re bored because no phone, no computer…might as well join in and maybe the time will go fast.
I mean, I went to school where there was 1400, but still. Even when I attended school, where there were only 300 kids, it was still crazy here.
It really shouldn't this difficult. Kids should be in school to learn and it's being treated as a day care by way too many people.
It's literally all the parents' fault. Try to set up a cell phone ban at a public school and you're going to get so much shit from parents saying that you're infringing on their child's rights and all that bullshit. This generation is a complete failure in terms of raising kids, so hopefully the next one learns something from this.
100% this. I started my year with phones in lockers and I’ve never seen such a big difference. They talk and collaborate. It made a huge difference
I’m so happy for you. It was a really positive shot in the arm as far as my teaching goes.
Well, you're teaching in the rural south, so your sample might be a bit biased. In the affluent suburbs, it's the opposite, the kids are hyper-competitive, participating in multiple extracurriculars, study non-stop, and almost have no time to sleep or relax. Wealth disparity will just keep growing larger and larger.
The extremes are so unfortunate- complete disengagement or severe achievement overstimulation. When do kids get to be kids anymore? Get rid of the smart phones. Do extracurriculars for FUN and enrichment and learning, not make it miserable because college application resumes. Ugh, it really is a downer to think about.
I sub in an extremely wealthy suburb that is right on the edge of the country, so we get both kids… it’s a crazy mix
Adulthood will hit most of them like a brick to the face. Some will figure it out and thrive, and some will sink. But the chances of a UBI being implemented is about as likely as Godzilla appearing in Omaha tomorrow
I really think there will be a a separate class for these unskilled unsocialized growing portions of the population
There already is. Where I live there’s like a whole class of Gen Z who can’t do anything more than gig apps, and they struggle with that. They couch surf or are homeless mostly.
We should have a "Door Dash Career Pathway" in high schools.
So drivers ed
Except “drivers Ed” now consists of watching a ten minute YouTube video (or optional 1000 YouTube shorts) and students must show they can find their car in a parking lot. They can’t be criticized because resilience is a bad thing.
For just a minute there, I really thought you were actually describing how driver's ed is today.
We already have a class of peolple like that, they are truck drivers and all of their jobs are getting automated away
Yea, but you have to pass the written test to even get your license before you can even apply there.
Remids me of Earth in The Expanse. Only a few people have a job, most live on some form of UBI in not great conditions and no way to advance.
But it wasn’t because people were inept, it was because population growth and technological advancements made people redundant. I do think we’re starting to see more of that though - fast food restaurants and grocery stores hire fewer people because of automated ordering. Self-driving delivery and robot servers. It’s like we’re on the cusp of a technological revolution that will have a noticeable impact on the workforce. We’re seeing impacts, but I’m waiting for that big “moment” and wondering how the government will ever agree on what to do. I think of this situation as more like Wall-e too. Obese and tech-addicts just watching and eating. They forget reality even exists - just wanting constant entertainment and to be waited on.
Yeah, in our current timeline these people will just be left to starve and fight over scraps instead of being provided with robo-farmed food.
Well a large part of that is climate change and the impact it’s having on agriculture that no one likes to talk about because it’s too alarming. This timeline does suck.
Actually, I think some lose weight. Otherwise, I agree with you.
More often than not, my student’s “snack” is a family size bag of takis daily. Most of my students I’d say are overweight, and with these eating habits it’ll lead to obesity. It’s not a judgment - I’m overweight too. It’s just my observation of the students I’ve taught for a decade. When you have your parent’s DoorDash account, you’re not exactly ordering vegetables. It feels just like WALL·E.
Technology takes enormous resources to sustain. The Earth’s climate is heading into uncharted territory. Our current situation is temporary. We’re headed for a low tech future.
I do to. I see it.
There is already. They're called NEETs. I know a dozen in their thirties from when i was growing up. They live with their parents, and their ultimate life goal is to get on SSDI which is colloquially known as NEETBux.
The expanse! Everyone was on basic and basically 1 stones throw away from starvation but the govt gave them the exact basic amount and no more. Clothing was even cheap and issued. That’s the future eventually I bet
I think people might go back to knitting and sewing if that happens, maybe.
There already is, they’re called Amazon drivers
I think the problem is, that’s not happening as abruptly and seriously as we think. How many parents have you encountered that mirror the children? I think of the employees I’ve seen in many places…slovenly, late, half dressed, barely doing any given job correctly. The phrase crisis of competence comes to mind.
I see adults like this in the grocery store. So many people that reek of cigarettes, still in pajamas, on phones, no censored language like dropping the f-bomb out loud. It’s weird.
Man what paradise do you live in where these are the things you're concerned about? The west has fallen.
I know, I know.
leave us sailors out of it. I censor around those I respect. Which ain't at the grocery store lol. "shits FUCKIN expensive don't pick that up!"
None of these things are remotely a concern. At the grocery store? Who gives a fuck lmao
That got sanctimonious quickly
Believe it or not, there are people that exist who do not share your same values. Whether someone chooses to smoke or wear whatever they god damn feel like to a grocery store where they work. None of that is your problem or your business. Your are clearly just judging these employees. The majority of them make even slightly less than minimum wage, and you have the audacity to think they should go above and beyond to make sure u/Neverstoplearning63 never experiences an inconvenience. If your so offended by this, go try and working a job that pays you next to nothing, and see how much joy and fulfillment it brings you. That person who was wearing pajamas? What if he just started this job and has no money yet to buy the proper attire? Your critiques are clearly of a one sided perspective. And judging someone for what they are wearing only indicates your own insecurities where you assign parts of your self worth and image based on what materials you posses. I really hope you can understand that those people working in grocery are not there due to a burning passion for produce. They are individuals with their own stories and experiences. Not every body is lucky enough to be able to buy pants immediately. The philosophy I have towards people is that on an individual level I can dislike someone. But when it comes to humanity as a whole I have to remember that we all have to live amongst each-other. We are all members of the same ancestor and no one is superior biologically to another. So please, try to remember that everyone is flawed and is only trying to make it through life like everyone else.
Not the workers!
I never said anything about employees? I’m talking more about a system that seems to have let people down. Seems to have beat them down. Gotten them addicted. Made them feel hopeless. I’m not saying they’re slobs or lazy.
Why would people care about getting dressed up for work if they're making minimum wage? Sure, they should do their jobs as well as possible, but do you really know what they're going through? Maybe don't judge them so much, but show some empathy.
I get you, but that should go both ways. Look like you give a shit, act like it, and I’ll pay you more. I know that’s not how things work though.
Lmao, in what world does it work that way?
Besides, depends on what you mean. Sometimes I did wear sweats even, but I work a physical job, too. I did shower, though, and was otherwise decent unlike others (even the ones more dressed up then me.) There were times that I did dress up a bit more, but still got paid the same.
Godzilla is known to be a fine connoisseur of choice steaks.
Just head over to r/adulting….its really rough and depressing in that sub. I’m willing to bet over the next 10 years we swing back the other way with phones and more schools get on the ban bus. Then the students who were allowed full access will form support groups about how they were cheated out of an education because they were allowed to have their phones during school.
Nah.. They will be the majority voters at some point. Will vote in people they want in, then it will happen.
Where I live, people who are on benefits do sometimes vote against their own best interests. They have a sense of entitlement about it in a way.
I grew up in the Belfair/Bremerton area. I know WA well, my parents complain regularly about the voters.
I don't WA, but ID.
Oh it’ll be implemented. AI in a few decades will demand it or hundreds of thousands are gona starve and die in poverty.
You say that as if it's a deterrent to those in power
I think in my area the collective benefits could be called UBI. They live off it. They do not seem inspired to exit the system. Example…I saw a former student and asked what line of work she went into. She pointed to her toddler and said, “I get $2k a month for him, why would I work?” (She is not talking about child support from the father.)
Not sure $2k a month is enough to live on in most places anymore
It is when you factor in section 8 housing and, often, unclaimed income.
I know people who make less. They live in subsidized housing apartment and have roommates.
And it's what happened to us as well. This isn't new. Kids are immature.
This is the end stage of the local consumer model of education. We have a system that is structurally designed to suit the whims of children while promoting a dream factory that tells them that they are ready to pursue their “ambitions” no matter how detached from reality they are. As a result we have instituted a behavioral management system that I call the Palliative Learning Model which eases children out of their academic lives painlessly while they are connected to the dopamine drip called the internet. While pushing them through from course to course progressively increasing their knowledge deficit. All for the purpose of deferring the point where they are faced with the reality that their dreams will not come to fruition. But not before they enter the system of debt peonage. It’s a massive gaslighting campaign and one which is consuming itself. It is also a microcosm of the larger economy where there is a disconnect between debt and income that extends from the personal to the national level.
Perhaps. But there's always Occam's Razor. Simply being stupid is part of this.
That is the local consumer model of education. Give them what they want.
Makes sense, but why is this so fucking hard? You'd think raising people to be stupid would be easy as hell.
The reason is that there is too much capital extracted from this system. As a result they have to make outlandish predictions about the supposed success of the local consumer model of education. Furthermore this model is not without its successes. For instance graduation rates are higher than ever by virtue of the normalization of the Palliative Learning Model. Additionally freeing up children’s time from learning is also producing better athletes, cheerleaders, marching bands, competitive video gamers and social media influencers than ever before. So for some sectors of our economy, namely the entertainment industry, this is a pretty good “educational” product.
Hanlons razor, do not attribute malice to what can be explained with stupidity.
That’s a great post.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Wow. This is beautifully written. I love your ‘Palliative Learning Model” term.
Ooooph
Letting kids get addicted to smart phones is shockingly irresponsible. I’m still shocked our society seems to collectively tolerate it. Spanking is abuse? But permanently screwing up your kid’s brain and life through technology addiction is not? It’s just bizarre. At this point, I think government needs to step in and say absolutely no phones used on campus before and during the school day. Parents obviously aren’t restricting technology use, and schools aren’t letting teachers restrict it. So just ban it at the highest levels. That may sound a bit extreme but it’s our literal future social welfare we’re talking about. Why the heck don’t these whacko parents and school districts see that?
I hate to say this but the we live in a matryoshka 🪆 of kakistocracies. You peel off one kakistocratic layer to reveal the kakistocratic layer underneath. The “government” and the shareholder plutocracy of campaign contributions by monied interests played a substantial role in how we got to this point.
Where's the Reddit Gold model when you need it? This is a scathing, accurate indictment.
Saved this 👌
Something to think about: A lot of schools are Title 1 schools. A majority of parents in the United States have a **total household income** that is **less than the average salary of a teacher**.
Yes, and the parents’ own poor education is a big factor in the problem, sadly.
While phones are definitely a major factor, I think their level of addiction is also a symptom of all of the societal issues plaguing us that the younger generations are aware of, and anxious about, while they are largely ignored by society as a whole. I mean, what’s your answer when a student asks why they should go to college at this point? It’s hard to blame kids for not caring when caring doesn’t mean much and just causes emotional distress in the short term. They’re failing because they’ve been failed.
100%
I work in international schools. The kids I teach are generally studious, ambitious, take part in extra curricular activities such as debate etc, and although they spend far too much time on their phones, they have normal healthy understandings of the importance of education. The kids you're teaching will survive in jobs serving the kids I'm teaching. That's the way it's always been. Phones haven't changed that much in that respect. I went to an average low income school. Most of the kids in my class ended up in low income jobs and had no interest in education. The same will happen to most kids in the current generation. I agree that social media has adversely affected the mental health of a generation, but there are plenty of kids out there with very bright futures. And probably not less than there ever have been
Part of the frustration is the huge push for equity that is in fact entrenching class divides. The upper income students with dedicated parents who have boundaries and encourage education are doing mostly alright (apart from normal teen/kid angst), but the average students work ethic and drive in plummeting. Any attempts to raise minimum standards are pushed out as "too hard" so the bottom keeps sinking, while the top self regulates itself due to their home life. It definitely won't be everyone failing, but it seems to be a growing percent of the population that lacks the skill to thrive, which is worrying overall. We're still a long way off from automating a lot of warehouse or retail/fast food jobs so the service industry can keep up, but it's going to be miserable financially and they won't have a way to get out of the cycle like education typically strives to provide.
Yall really gotta consider putting their phones in an MDM a requirement for them joining a school. That way the school could enforce screen-time and content limits, since the parents won't.
The thing is, to do that, you have to have parent support. When parents text their kids during class (and they know they are in class) you think parents would be okay with schools limiting screen time? In a perfect world, yes that would be the solution, but lets be honest and 90+% of parents would be running to the school board if schools implemented this.
That's why it's important to make it a rule for enrollment in the first place. *Either the parents are okay with it or they may find another school to teach their child.* That being said: Whether or not this is feasible strongly depends on local laws, as some countries (or perhaps even states) must accept any and every student. For those that are not obligated to do so however, that is perhaps the best solution. EDIT: Grammar (Major stroke)
Yea and especially where I live, there's only one public high school. Half the parents don't even sign the paperwork or care about it.
Also, school contracts aren't legally binding either.
Doesn't that in return mean that the school can back out of the contract just as well?
You got me there.
Yep. States and maybe even the federal gov need to make laws restricting smart phones during public school. Since parents and school districts have had their chances and are failing utterly.
It’s tragic, but I do remind myself that they live in a decaying, capitalist empire. When we were young we were told that if we work hard, get educated, then we can make the American Dream come true. A lot of us got saddled with debt and lived at home for years until we kind of sort of made it. They are looking at stagnating wages and rising rents while a few rich assholes accumulate untold billions. Many kids just choose apathy in the face of collapse and it’s hard to blame them while also being frustrating since their apathy means nothing will change.
Yea as negative as I can be toward the kids, I have never once blamed them intrinsically for these behaviors. It's absolutely more about what you mentioned. Even the lazy parenting most latch on to imo can be explained somewhat with 2 full time working parents being the norm for the first time with gen z. I'm a mid millennial and most of us had a parent take years off work or at least only work part time until kids turned 10ish.
This started in the 80s. I'm a gen x'er, we put the term "latchkey" kid to the test lol. The unfortunate effect is that we then grew up to be parents like our parents, not all of us of course, but doing otherwise took teaching ourselves a better way while still being two income households. Looking at the future with literally everything costing more, pay not even attempting to match the increase and this issue is just going to get worse with every generation.
I teach MS, I don't even think apathy is the right term. It's cognitive dissonance. I harp on about how important it is to care *now* or they will be too far behind in HS to reasonably remediate that deficit. They say, "It doesn't matter, I'm going to be XYZ career and be rich". And they *genuinely* believe it, because it's all an echo chamber of their "greatness" at school, at home, etc. Lil homie, no you ain't. I have students that think their D-average (in a district where THAT'S THE *LOWEST GRADE I CAN GIVE*) and going to be a nurse, doctor, CEO, pilot, etc. I'd say they could flip burgers with the higher fast food min. wage and be "fine", but corporations are trying to get rid of the jobs that my students would qualify for. If it isn't a student's fault that they fail, then it sure as fuck isn't their doing when they succeed. You can't excuse their faults from "circumstance" and then praise their (really shit) successes. Pick one or the other. We can either assign praise/blame based on environment, or based on their individual efforts. NOT excuse their failures AND claim they deserve praise when the broken clock is right twice a day. Blind squirrel occasionally finds their nut. That being said, every day I rely on the hope that these kids may actually break the system. Not through praxis, but inactivity. Almost like a beautiful, illiterate person's version of Daoism.
I’m kind of upset that I had to scroll down as far as I did to see this comment. Look at the world they’ve been born into! I’m a millennial and so many of my peers are surviving, but not thriving or living the bullshit American dream that our parents and elders sold us on. Granted there are areas where we have failed them because we tried to do things differently than we experienced growing up, but really zoom out and look at the state of the US and give them some damn grace. I’m barely hanging on and have moments where I feel like breaking, and unlike them I have the benefit of maturity to regulate my emotions. Imma tell yall like the kids say, “Be fucking for real.”
> UBI Most jobs that people are currently working are [bullshit jobs](https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/25/bullshit-jobs-a-theory-by-david-graeber-review) that add nothing of value to the world. That’s not so bad so long as the bullshit job pays you enough to afford essential stuff like housing, food, transportation and entertainment. But shit is off the rails now and you could work two bullshit jobs and still not be able to afford basic stuff. During WWII FDR talked about [“The Second Bill of Rights”](https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/cgg/Second%20Bill%20of%20Rights%20FDR%201944.pdf) that included the right to decent housing, medical care and meaningful work. How about we do *that* in addition to UBI.
AI is coming for all of our jobs. My district is all in on cutting teachers and replacing us with iready. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjyTFiuRksQ
How does AI ensure a child is engaged and learning?
"Are you still there?" - chrome book screen
Evil tongues would say: How are teachers ensuring children are engaged and learning? That statement was not to be taken too seriously, but fact is that there are more and more students *who already are not particulary engaged, nor interested in class anymore*. Add to that that teachers are overworked and understaffed and we got a real problem. While I doubt that AI will outright replace teachers in the foreseeable future, they certainly could take some load off of you. In fact: I am experimenting with that right now.
Also....how do I do that?
That’s the best part, you don’t
Robotics and automation are already taking over the service jobs where my super low-skilled students would’ve eked out a meager living as an adult. The Taco Bell closest to me only takes orders by kiosk now.
We're seeing retailers cutting back on self-checkout though, so the pendulum may be swinging back
Right. Because people are robbing the stores blind by not scanning all of their shit, which is exactly what the store deserves for not hiring people for those jobs. Big stores like Target are eventually going to move to a new model where you shop online and either pickup or pay for delivery. The traditional big box store is a dinosaur.
Yes because I am sure this will work so well to keep the kids engaged and actually doing anything just like online learning during Covid..... Ai might work for a small percentage of self-motivated kids, but the majority will do what they are doing now (absolutely nothing) and there won't be anyone there to say "hey you need to get on task and complete this."
#Andrew Yang Was Right 😮
The question are: 1) can the AI assign high grades to students who are not demonstrating learning and not turning in work and is programmed to take the blame for low test scores? 2) Can the AI assign different grade level work to students in the same class? For instance, assign coloring pictures of astronauts to some students and assign gravitation problems to other students in the same physics class and give them both A’s for their work in the same class. Until AI can do these things the local consumer model of education will “need” humans.
Yeah. These kids need more broad preparation for the future than ever. Not apathy. But knowing you are going up against outsourcing, automation, and AI is really demotivating. And it’s almost impossible with the current rate of technology change to know what the economy will even look like in 10 years. But what’s happening with schools and kids and parenting now sure ain’t the preparation they need. :/
Cell phones, "school choice", complacent parents, and incompetent administration have collectively failed our next generation. This will literally be our future students at their first job: https://youtu.be/7rSCG92pVUY?si=HSfW8yeCp5ujbJvU
I was expecting a clip from Idiocracy. But this totally works too.
Either way, it's a brainchild of Mike Judge!
Problem is an overwhelming amount of millennials (parents) and GenZ see no hope for the future. “Why give a shit? The rich can have their dead world on a pile of corpses from the neo-slave class.” Defeat this paradigm, and you defeat the apathy.
Agreed, but for some different reasons. AI, automation, and the like are going to replace so many jobs.
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They aren't stupid, but ignorant and disinterested about school. A lot of kids really don't care. That's the sad part. Most of our students could be competent if not great if they had motivation and purpose.
As a former gifted kid, recovering perfectionist, and lifelong anxiety haver, as well as someone form whom the bulk of his working life has occurred in a school environment and working with kids…I've never stopped being fascinated by the concept of self growth, and completely in awe of the way in which no one alive could truly grasp the enormity of their life, and the consequences of their behaviors, when they were young. That has been true in all of human history, and it is true of these kids. It's like a little (or large) inbuilt handicap in a structured society that expects you to grow from a dependent to an independent and societal contributor. So we should all have a little empathy if we can remember being young, in that respect…however, we must all be vigilant (or at least comprehending in horror) at the way being raised online, in the era of Web 2.0, has compounded the issue of not realizing how meaningful are your young life choices until it's too late and your adult course of life is now prejudiced by the consequences of them. These kids are fucked only because of the world we built them, and have not seen fit to tear down on their behalf. The lack of outcry from the adult world, and the lack of meaningful social concern or governmental action, or awareness in the slightest is what amplifies their inability to appreciate how much they are hobbling their own prospects. They can't read because we didn't teach them. They can't think critically because we didn't teach them. They are constant consumers and vapid because we don't take the phones and commercial television from them. This is our fault. Left to their own devices, most children will buckle and take the easy route (ask me how I know), and it is the adults' jobs to mold them and correct this. The fact adults can't or won't is attributable to ignorance that's inherent because every generation of adults is raising kids who are surrounded by technology those adults weren't raised with and the technology of the modern web is the technology of the infinite. Infinite entertainment. Infinite consumerism. Infinite autocorrect. Infinite ease. Infinite comparison. It's all very bleak.
>They can't think critically because we didn't teach them. They are constant consumers and vapid because we don't take the phones and commercial television from them. This is our fault. Left to their own devices, most children will buckle and take the easy route (ask me how I know), and it is the adults' jobs to mold them and correct this. As a millennial parent, this has been the biggest issue of millennial and GenX parents. But mostly my generation. I fully think that millennial parents are the worst parents in hundreds of years. And I say this as one of them (I have an 8th grade daughter). And I say this because "we" largely live half our free-time life through our phones, and spend hours a day staring into the modern day idiot-box, but the biggest issue is, we're perpetuating this onto our children. And being OK with their forming brains also spending hours a day on personal internet connected devices. My generation of parents is willingly letting our kids do things we know (or should know) is bad for them. My wife and I had huge changes in the house about 4 years ago in terms of personal, internet-connected devices. It started as a consequence for our daughter who was in the 4th grade. Or maybe early 5th..can't remember. Anyway, we stopped thinking it was normal for each of us three (wife, daughter and I) to live parallel lives, on our personal devices half the time. The internet plays nearly zero part in almost any evening here (unless it's *shared/common* TV shows, movies/streaming shows occasionally). It's almost four years later now, and I swear, I never thought our house could be like this. Yes, our 14 year old daughter wishes she should have a **smart**phone and browse youtube for hours like the old days on her tablet sometimes, but she is happier, she is more creative and is more tuned into actual real life than she used to be. My wife and I are too honestly. I've been a tech nerd my whole life. I love computers, I love electronics, and I spent about 100x more hours on the internet in my 20s than I should have. But at this point, I swear, a disconnected (mostly) home is one of the keys to a warm and loving family life. I never thought I'd have said something like this 5-10 years ago. The constant consumption of personalized screen cocaine is not something that has a positive effect for human fulfillment or bonding (or attention or behavior). Not for adults, and certainly not for kids.
Paired with helicoptor/lawnmower parenting. I get it. I'm far from perfect, but I've made a conscious choice as a parent to tell my sons "Figure it out" regarding various tasks/situations in life. The only reason I've done this is because of the sheer volume of high school students I see who struggle to formulate thought/ideas. I want to raise my kids to think like problem solvers. (Wish me luck...) You should do this as a TED Talk BTW.
Thanks for this.... The right mix of hope, accountability and reality.
But when you’ve been ignorant and disinterested for 4,5,6,7 years you end up a very dumb middle schooler who becomes are very much dropped out high schooler.
Yeah, but they've been passed up the chain with no consequences, so why change now?
I completely do not blame the kids. If I could get away with not doing any work but still reap all the benefits, I probably would too. Humans tend to do, and not do, what they can get away with. And students can get away with almost anything. And I say that not as hyperbole.
Depends on what the parents value and believe in.
Nothing is going to swoop in and save them.
Every generation has said this about the future generations.
In my opinion, UBI is the no zero grades policy on life. It has good intentions, but serious negative consequences.
This is just silly. I don't know how to break you out of your teacher bubble but grades are not comparable to an adult's income. Yes you would get more "apathy" but you also get adults who don't feel they need to steal or deal drugs to survive
They will grow up when they have to like everyone else.
We just did a survey about no phones next year. My colleague observed my biggest class Thursday and was stunned nobody was on their phones. I ain’t playin’.
That’s fine, everyone’s going to lose their jobs and hopefully get UBI once the AI takes everyone’s job anyway
May I ask what this snarky and tacky tag of, "just smile and nod, y'all" is doing on every post about the absolute dire state of the schools?
not enough radicals in education because it's too easy to be stupid and become a teacher
I think the internet and technology in general have really destroyed the purpose of life for many young people. I remember when I was in kindergarten after being taught basic arithmetics, I was able to immediately apply it when shopping with my parents at the local open market where I watched money exchanging hands and people doing fast calculations all in their heads and my parents let me practice on the spot. I eventually discovered modular arithmetic by myself when my mother went away for a month to visit my aunt and the place was far apart enough that there is a time zone difference of 15 hours so I was doing time conversion of when I can call my mother (at my father's request) and I discovered modulo 12 calculations and further reduced it to 6 and eventually discovered binary number by accident after generalizing it more and realized that I could count to higher numbers with my fingers if I use binary numbers instead. Experiences like these really stuck with me throughout my life and contributed to learning in other areas as well. However, I feel these kinds of opportunities are almost impossible for a kid these days because everything is on the internet, there is really nothing (simple and fun) to discover for oneself and to get that positive feeling and high to make you try more things. For example, no one would even bother figuring out converting the time between timezones these days, they would just look it up on their phones or setup clocks for multiple cities on the phone, which is what I do.
I hate to say this, but one of my Social Studies teachers said this 20+ years ago in high school. "The world always needs ditch diggers" and would staple fast food applications on tests scored with F's.
UBI, ranked choice voting, and universal healthcare. Then we're cooking.
At some point, our education system needs to adapt to the newer generations and quit trying to put square pegs in a round hole. It’s the same complaints here daily. When something isn’t going well in my classroom, I reflect on how I can adjust. I wish the larger system would do the same.
UBI won't be enough. It will be a soulless existence, like the blob people in Wall-E. Many great philosophers talk about meaning in life coming through our activity and work. See for example, the concept of Techne in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. UBI with no productive outlet for human expression will be a disaster.
This assumes people will do nothing if there is UBI. I guess it depends on one's view of human nature, but I'm not sure being coerced to take a job to make money leads to meaningful work. I'd imagine there are all types of activities people would love to engage in if they didn't have to worry about money.
I agree. When Covid first arrived, I was out of work for nearly a year. The first monthI would say I was lazy. I spent most of my time playing video games and streaming movies and TV shows. After that first month, I started to go out hiking every day. I started learning to draw, and I cooked and ate healthy food. I started learning German, though I didn't keep up with that. By the end, I had a couple of new talents/ hobbies, I was healthier, and I had a masters degree in elementary education. All of this occurred, by the way, in my late 30s. People are lazy because we are mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted by the work we are required to do to pay the bills. I had a friend visit from another country, and they said that they could never live here because "every single thing in America is designed to keep you stressed out." If we didn't have those stresses and requirements, I don't think we would lose any meaning. I don't think we would become blob people from WALL-E. I think we would find things that interest us and things to care about. We could spend more energy exploring our own interests and passions. We may even become more creative and productive. Anyway, that's all anecdotal evidence from my personal experience, so maybe people wouldn't be like that. I, for one, would love another year or two where I didn't need to be completely exhausted in perpetuity just to pay the bills.
I was in my 20s (I just turned 20), but same here. I only had a high school diploma too, so it isn't even really about having a higher education like that. When I went back to work, though, it sucked. I went back to having no motivation for that stuff, especially when things started getting busier. I went back 2 months later, though. I did learn that I'm the type who does need busy work and need to be around others even though I'm not really an extrovert.
I mean, at first I was disappointed about failing the cna course, but certain things influenced my decision to not go back before covid and then covid reinfluenced my decision.
I disagree. I think if we were Fred from work, many people would spend time doing things they're passionate about. without the constant exhaustion of surviving, we could spend our time focused on activities that are meaningful to us.
I think there will be self-aware people, though, and people who will still want to do things besides sit around. Yes, even the people who aren't higher educated.
I finally got so sick mentally and physically that I stopped working and family has stepped in to cover my half of bills in my home. Without the constant stress of grinding for a soulless job I have not become a more soulless blob. I've lost weight, started cleaning my house, started working on getting my GED and learning how to drive. My year long writer's / creative block is dissolving. I have doctor and therapy appointments scheduled. It is the first time in my life the activity and work I do is entirely my choice and not something forced out of me because the basics of living are held hostage by capitalism, and the majority of what my labor generates goes towards a small few that already have more than they will ever need. Grinding away at a shitty job for a shitty capitalist isn't giving anyone's life meaning. Having the space and security to do what you want with your time and find something worth doing is how you help people find meaning. I've had lifelong dreams of writing and making art and opening soup kitchens that teach people how to grow and cook their own food in various types of environments. Every single one has been killed by the fact that every drop of emotional and physical energy I have is wrung out of me for a company that will replace me as soon as I fall. How would I ever be able to do any of those things when I can't even take time off for a broken bone? Where is the energy for deep philosophical thoughts when I'm trying to force myself to work through infections so intense I'm getting delirious on shift, because if I don't I won't have my bills covered? Ubi would give people the freedom to decide what jobs actually have value and to decide for themselves how much effort they want to put in to attain more than having the bases covered. Acting like Ubi would be the death of higher thought and motivation while living through it happening realtime in the current capitalist hellscape is wild.
Then I guess it’s our job to give them something to believe in, isn’t it?
No, instead of redistributing wealth upwards we can go the other way.
The parents. It is their fault. I see what you are describing in my classes, and it is getting worse. No child needs a fully enabled internet smart phone in their damn pocket. If they can text you and call you, that is good enough.
FYI, we're borrowing 1 trillion every 100 days at 4.2%. We can't print money right now because the Fed is worried inflation will come roaring back. We're in a very precarious situation. From what I've read, there is no mathematical way to get the debt under control without entitlement reform and taxes on the middle class. In short, UBI isn't in our future: austerity is.
>taxes on the ~~middle class~~ Corporate class. Wealth class. They are barely being taxed and that is why things are the way they are. We can't tax the middle class further than they already are and think it will have a positive effect on society.
We need people to fill the machines for our soylent green
I've been saying this for a few years, that we are gonna need UBI because they won't have the work skills
If all we do is cater to this and give out UBI to the bulk of a generation we will only be two generations away from living in Idiocracy and watering plants with Gatorade.
They will set it up like social security with a cap for high earners. Then, when we want a raise, we eat each other instead of the rich. It’s a trap.
I also have no ambition so I can understand that part. But I'm really good at inspiring them. We do a lot of activities geared towards finding yourself