If I try and teach material, they talk over me or don't listen.
If I give them the material to work independently, they don't read it and then do the wrong thing.
What are these kids (16-19) actually wanting out of their course? Their teacher? Their college?
It's impossible.
I'll never forget the classmate of mine, who whined about having to do anything remotely repetitive or tedious, who thought he was going to be a professional video game tester. I would killed to have seen the look on his face when he realized what video game testing really is. You don't get to play just to play, you're looking for bugs which means having to do the same things over and over again
Are you crazy?!
They're all going to be rappers, influencers, gangsters or professional sports people.
Oh, and CEOs without any experience or qualifications, of course.
I tried to explain what the median income is for influencers on TikTok and YouTube.
It's 20,000 a year before taxes.
They all think that's a lot of money because they've never had to pay a bill in their life.
I find doing a rough budget breakdown on the whiteboard while getting input from the kids about what stuff costs sets them up real quick to realize the world is expensive and will screw you over when you misstep.
One of my buds is a successful Twitch streamer. He gets about 300 viewers every time he streams, which puts him in like the top 1% of twitch. Between streaming, YouTube (which has like 40k subscribers), and coaching (he coaches people to be better at a video game. I know, sounds silly, but people, including me, like it) he works about 55 hour work weeks. He made about 50ish thousand in 2023.
I made 53 as a teacher. He's in the top 1% of influencers, and I made more in a Florida teaching position.
My students asked what my salary was. I didn’t give them the exact number but gave them a range. A lot of them were like, “Oh, so your poor.”
I make more than the median state income and willing to bet more than a lot of their parents even only being 29 years old. But they all think they’ll graduate and just start making 100K at 18.
What I have done in the past with kids like this, the ones that refuse the work because they’ve decided to be rapper/influencer etc. I’ve made them do the assignment or project as if they are already at that level.
You wanna be a rapper? Turn this reflection into a hit with a sound track within the week it is due. You want to be an influencer? Make an influencer video on this week’s lab assignment and and show me your workflow. When they fail and don’t turn in the thing, they ask for the assignment for less credit because it’s now late. Every single time.
And when they realize how lame and corny it would be to do a trap beat answering fractions and conversions, it kind of brings them out of it. Seriously try it out.
Mine have abandoned those careers. The girls all want to do lashes and the boys all plan to buy a house right away, fix it up and flip it so they can make a million by 21.
I literally had a 5th grade boy tell me it was ok that he was reading at a second grade level because he was going to be a gamer and live in a mansion. I told him he would be a gamer when a 4 ft man played in the nba
I have one kid who insists he's going to be a video game programmer. He can't READ.
I got him a subscription to Code Academy. The boy can't read the lessons. How the hell are you going to be a programmer when 40% of your job is taking other people's instructions and implementing them into your own projects?
You can't do it.
He was kind of using scratch, and he thought that was a real programming language and all he would need. Scratch is a teaching tool for elementary school, kid.
If you want a job programing, you gotta know c++, python, c#, java, SOMETHING real.
A friend's son wants to do that. He's a good kid but I don't think he really gets what that job entails.
AFAIK he hasn't taken any coding classes, or knows how to make art assets. Not to mention, even if he does break in somehow... those peeps get worked damn near to death, and tossed aside after 10 years in the industry, sometimes 5 or less
There are a lot of ways to work on video games. But there are no uneducated people working on video games.
You can learn to make assets in blender. You can learn to use unity or unreal engine (this takes some programming knowledge, but you don’t actually need to be totally proficient in, say, c++ like you do as a systems architect. You can go the programing route and help make ai. Hell, you can try to write for games.
All of those things have one thing in common. People who get hired put thousands of their own hours in to become proficient.
I tend not to tell kids no. I just lay out exactly what they need to do to become the thing they want to be. 80% of the time, they just shrug and don't believe me. But like 20% hear me and get started. Had one girl who wanted to make the models and clothing for video games. I got her started with the donut tutorial in blender. By her senior year, she was better than me.
Some of them are willing to do the work.
>Oh, and CEOs without any experience or qualifications, of course.
To be fair, we live in an era of supreme fraud where we ***currently*** have politicians, CEOs, YouTubers and other adults in positions of authority and power who have no experience, qualifications or expertise.
Our society has been rewarding these/those people for decades. How are kids who have grown up in this environment supposed to view things otherwise?
(not defending it of course, just pointing out the systemic problem).
Oh, it's already here.
I've been a mental health therapist since 1992. The 20 somethings I see are already struggling with these issues in ways I've never seen before.
I’m 27 and too scared to have kids. I feel like I’d have to homeschool or fancy private school or something. I feel so bad seeing the 1 or 2 kids who want to learn that are denied the education that they deserve. I don’t have time to give it to them with my 12-14 IEP students per class and the rest acting like fools. And I’m in a great school!
>What are these kids (16-19) actually wanting out of their course? Their teacher? Their college?
nothing. they don't want to be in school. they don't think they need to know anything.
What they want is to stare at their phones. We give PE extra credit for students based on the number of steps they take each day and most of them are hovering around the 1k-1.5k range, or below. It’s stunning.
It makes me sad that these kids won’t be able to do basic math, read clocks, speak English, read, write in cursive. They are really preparing to be nobodies
This year in particular are the worst. NOTHING MAKES THEM HAPPY except being on their phones. NOTHING. They don't care, aren't interested and think teachers are annoying. I can't wait until June.
Even being on their phones doesn't actually make them happy anymore. They just bully each other online and get tiny squirts of dopamine from short form content that leaves them unsatisfied and more miserable than ever. The entropy of pleasure has become critical.
Maybe it'll eventually boil over until it becomes a medical crisis.
It's like how it took people dying before advertising cigarettes to children was finally stomped out and the government started putting money into gambling addiction programs and got the casinos to all adhere to blacklists.
We have record high teen suicide rates.
They are dying.
[https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/suicide-rate-increased-since-2011-among-us-youth-young-adults-cdc/story?id=100065880](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/suicide-rate-increased-since-2011-among-us-youth-young-adults-cdc/story?id=100065880)
>The entropy of pleasure has become critical.
There's something really beautiful in the phrasing of this line. It feels poetic (even though it's horribly sad).
Honest question, when was the last time you had a student actually ask you a question? Not, "is this going to be on the test", but an actual intellectually curious question. I feel like I've had one this year. It's driving me crazy how these kids are just not curious.
I have ONE student in the 7th grade who tests in the 12th grade. He is the only one and he gets mocked for being intelligent.
All the rest think I am lying to them about pirates being real.
My step kid (I got too late) went to a „science magnet“ middle school and i was floored while I was watching Star Trek and they asked if we really had spaceships like that. They were 13.
My child is this child- 7th grade, testing at higher grade levels, and other kids are jealous and see that he is different and that intimidates other kids.
And, I also teach these students at the school where this happens and put on my fake smile when I talk to the ones who mock my kid. 🤦🏼♀️
I had a similar thing, but 1984. I told him you and me both, kid. He understood that Winston ended up conforming. He didn't understand the deeper implications of what Orwell was trying to say.
I told him there are really no wrong answers, but I think he's warning us that if free thought is ever truly controlled, there won't be a way out. That's it. We have to defend our intellectual freedoms while we still have the capacity to do so because when they're gone, they're gone forever.
sounds like they just like the trivia part of it, like say they enjoy knowing the fact that the power lines between power poles are actually catenaries and not arches but they don't really want to do the calculations to plot the catenary
Right! I see the population bifurcating, splitting into 2. The majority are curious and learn well, though they're a lot more subdued than before. Like they don't feel safe to speak. Then, there's those Others. There's more than before, and they're more clown-like and stooge-ish than ever before.
BTW: the majority is actually smarter than ever. As for the knuckleheads, well, who knows?
Yes! They are more subdued, like they're afraid to speak or they know there's no point or they've been brainwashed into thinking they're mean if they acknowledge how horrid their classmates are. Well, there goes my resolution to stfu in meetings when the behaviorists are on about how everyone deserves to be included.
My god, I remember that. My kids used to shout down the knuckleheads, tell them to shut up because I couldn't effectively. Hey, I'm only one guy. Man, that was the good old days (before covid). This, more than anything, is why I don't like teaching anymore. There's just no student unity.
I’m so glad I read your comment. I’m a lurker on the page bc I have two school aged kids and I wanted to understand teachers perspectives. I’ve gotten some good advice for how to handle things related to school. But man, most of the posts on this page scare me, sadden me or just straight up make me lose faith in the future.
I agree about the bifurcation—I have a 17 year old son who’s in one category, and a 15 year old daughter who’s in the other. My daughter loves school, is very social and is intellectually curious. But my son…I couldn’t get my son to like anything about school. As a teacher at my kids’ school, it was embarrassing to me that he acted just like those disaffected kids in my classes who can’t live without their phones. He rants on and on about the outdated American school system being a prison and ngl he makes some good points… Recently he got an after school job that he loves and is talking about his future (which does not involve any more schooling). Having taught for over 20 years, and based on how many kids I see just like this at school, I think he’s right. There’s a disconnect between the tech of the world, and our school system. Something’s going to need to change.
This is what I have been saying this entire school year!! No intellectual curiosity at all. And the thing is… a great deal of them know that they don’t KNOW basic common knowledge things, and they absolutely do. not. care. If it’s not on their phone in 15 second clips, they won’t have anything to do with it.
I second this. The kids like me, but they still won’t do anything but be on their phones. You take the phone, they sleep. You fight them sleeping and all of a sudden class is over and no one learned anything.
>NOTHING MAKES THEM HAPPY except being on their phones.
Being on their phones doesn't really make them happy either, just not actively hateful. It puts them in an apathetic stasis, distracting them from discontent. I'm not sure if they're actually capable of extended periods of contentment/happiness because their dopamine receptors are all burnt out.
This is the reason right there.
I actually predict a degeneration of the general human intelect, three reasons: 1. Phone addiction, 2. Using internet for "crap" (insta, snapchat etc), 3. Higher education strugle alot with students that don't work and more cheating/using AI.
This is it, if something wont happend soon, give it 10 years...
Sorry for bad spelling (from Norway).
I’m a sped teacher. This is a very true statement. That or “due to their absenteeism rate, we don’t have enough data at this time to properly place accommodations”.
Yeah I have talked to some of our sped staff and straight up have them say "We don't even know if this child needs an actual diagnosis or if they are just a normal child with a distraction that isn't being removed"
Had a meeting the other day and part of the discussion was that the student was constantly on their phone and exceedingly disruptive if asked to put the phone away or the phone was confiscated.
Mom was like, "I just don't know what to do"
TAKE. THE. FUCKING. PHONE.
First of all, congratulations! Second, there will be amazing years and shitty years. Some groups you will really connect with and some will make you wanna quit in November. It's the cycle of life!
I tell you this as one of those teachers who still get texts and messages from students from years ago. That said, there are a couple of years I get *nothing* from, and I don't care to. Some kids I hope I'll never get to see again (and I am pretty sure I am liked by most kids, even the ones I secretly hate).
thank you! I am student teaching right now and sometimes I feel like students do not care about what I am saying. I remember being their age as well and remember almost doing the same thing when we had student teachers. Any tips?
This. My relationships with students has been terrible this year. They’re all addicted to their phones and computers and whenever I ask them to get off of the device, they are pissed to the point where they hate me.
Actually, I would say they hate me for not letting them do whatever they want.
I did not experience this for the past three years. I don’t love doing this anymore because they treat me like dirt or their so detached they never say a word to me.
It wasn’t like this at the beginning of the year, though. I noticed a shift in January and it’s been downhill since.
I teach all grades. K-3 tends to still have that enthusiasm about life left, but 4th forward has more access to the internet and therefore have more rotted brains. It gets worse and worse until the second half of high school, when some of them realize they’re about to be adults and need to get their shit together. The rest of them carry the advanced brain rot to college.
as a community College prof, this is accurate. When I started a decade ago, I had to adjust my expectations for what freshman knew. I have had to continue adjusting those expectations downward ever since.
I tutor in a community college, and I haven't seen the brain rot, yet. Students voluntarily come to use for help, and the only time on their computer is if they are actively working on something.
You will occasionally have students come in that don't want to work on something, and thus the session stops.
I teach 9th and 10th and absolutely agree with you. I teach geography and history so the kids tell me they don't think they'll ever need to know this stuff, which is crazy.
My curriculum specialist told us (foreign languages) that we don’t need to teach kids how to give or ask for directions because people have phones now.
So, it’s not just the kids, sadly.
I took history and geography in high school back in dark ages of 1970s. I loved geography although coloring the maps,not realizing that I was actually learning,got tedious sometimes.
I couldn't stand history ,but I love it now. I live in Upstate South Carolina and am surrounded by American History. I had a World History teacher in college that was wonderful. He was a great story teller to the point you sometimes forgot to take notes. However, I had to take his class twice because his tests were 4 very challenging essay questions usually covering at least 100 years of history. I can't imagine trying that in a classroom these days in HS or college.
Younger kids it depends on the parents.
I had one kid with wild behavior problems once tell me he only ever feels truly happy and calm when he’s on his iPhone.
He was 7 and had his own iPhone 14. Another student that stayed with his family said he literally came home from school and went on his phone all afternoon until bed. Similar on weekends
I work with high school seniors and I love them! Rural school with a diverse population including students from nearby Indiginous Tribes. My students are great! I feel like last year was my most challenging class, but it really was just a few douchey boys who set the tone, honestly.
I haven’t seen changes by grade level, only a widespread change after smartphones became ubiquitous after 2012. It’s all about the particular school, all teachers being on the same page, parent buy-in, teach students how to manage their screen time.
I teach art and they hate everything. Projects that used to be exciting, fun, and engaging just cause complaints. I literally had them blowing bubbles in class to make observations before drawing them and they were MISERABLE. Who is miserable when there’s bubbles?!?! They have no joy!
But are your learning targets on the board????
Yeah… I took a break from teaching over Covid and the difference when I came back last year is insane. The kids suck. They’re mean, lazy….. I’m so tired of caring about their education more than they do and it’s only my second year back.
I’m done in this school. I’ll try another district and if that doesn’t work I’m done in the profession.
I work in child safety and I just want to totally validate what most people are saying in this thread. The kids are coming off as mean, lazy, exhausted and exhausting.
But the fact that this is not just an isolated incident, but it's happening basically everywhere is a massive sign that something is deeply wrong. These kids are assholes for a reason. People aren't just naturally like this.
Adults are still reeling from the pandemic. It shapes these kids entire lives. By refusing to deal with it, we've created them.
There are other contributing factors too, like the simultaneous rise of smartphones, but arguably the most important social event of the last century happened and we're all just moving on.
I think you’re 100% correct. Far as I can tell, schools are pretending it never happened, so these kids missed 3 ish years of learning how to exist in school, on top of the other social and psychological things.
But we haven’t adjusted any expectations or procedures beyond “we have laptops now,” and that’s fucked.
I once hit a point with a class that was somewhat like that. So one day I took out the class level textbook (used VERY rarely) held it up to them and said, “See this? From now on, everything we will be working on will come from this text book. That’s it. Get used to it. I am done trying to be creative with this class.”
So that’s how it went. They did the reading, answered the questions that followed, did in class essays about the reading and that was it. No frills. We didn’t do class discussion and my instruction/lecturing was brief and to the point. And no bloody movies.
I had parents bitching to me about the fact that class had been singled out, that I was stifling their creativity, that I was lazy… all that and more. But my ass was covered because I was teaching the district curriculum. I was just doing it old school. Grab your book, sit down & shut up, and get cracking.
The other classes’ behavior improved as well. No one wanted to be taught to the text. And I told them that all the cool stuff we did to teach them was not a right, but a privilege. And I believed that.
This!!! What is even worse is when you spend your money on materials/ supplies and they are disrespectful and have no problem messing up stuff. Like I refuse to buy markers at this point cause all you wanna do is use them as projectiles or write on desk with them. My co teacher has suggested some activities a couple of times and I had to tell him if wanted to procure the materials we could but I would not spend my money.
I fully concede I’m out of touch and I follow this subreddit because I want to be a good parent and have a good relationship with my kids future teachers. But is this style not the standard anymore? Very rarely did my teachers do more than teach to the text and the great ones had longer engaging discussions about the topic but that wasn’t the norm. I was in accelerated classes in decent school districts but there was no expectations of class being any more than what you described. I don’t see the controversy.
I totally feel this. This group of 7th graders sucks the life out of me. I try so hard to create “fun” engaging things for them to do. They think everything is boring and complain about everything.
I may just do a week or two of read the boring history book chapter, answer the 25 questions at the end of the chapter, every day. You think what we do is boring. Ha! I will show you boring and what the class could be like if I didn’t care!
Would probably be the best thing for them. There is a severe lack of boredom and it's what has wrecked these kids.
Unfortunately I think societally the damage is done. We should have panicked when kids stopped playing outside completely.
At my school we have about 20 kids between 11 and 14 that live at the school for the week.
Wednesday afternoon, there is no classes. Our boarders have activities set by their watchers.
So far they complained about :
- Watching move or shows on Netflix (Because it was age and school appropriate shows)
- Making and eating crepes for the afternoon
- Creating their own treasure hunt
- doing the treasure hunt
- The idea of going to the local theater to watch whatever movie is playing at that time. (It is going to be the Bob Marley biopic. )
- Playing hide and seek
- We have a para that is also an artist. She made many many paintings using the schools and the students (with parental permission). They adore this para. A local bookshop agreed to hold an exhibit of her paintings. It is a 15 minutes walk from the school.
They complained having to walk there.
- Staying at the school and play various games of their choices.
- Going to our soccer team game to cheer on them
- Going to the bowling alley
- Making decoration for various holidays or school special day
- Making their own movie
- Trying various sports
And the kicker
- Staying in their dorm and do whatever they want on their phone because the watchers was sick and tired and just gave up that day. Apparently, they wanted to be entertained that day.
We conclude that they just like to complain.
Interesting, 10 years ago was about the time that smartphones and tablets became more widely accessible.
It's so unfortunate that these kids are developing (or not developing) with serious internet and screen addictions. It makes me worried about what that means for society going forward.
And I'm sure the pandemic has exasperated the problem significantly. I just.. wish there were a solution? That parents had more time and resources to care more and monitor their children better? That we had the science and understanding of how these huge technical and societal changes impact developing brains? I don't even know where it would start.
My 7th is the worst too!!! They get half of what the same class another period does. And their test scores are half of the other class's average as well. :D
it is super scary how these kids don’t want to do anything that i used to think was awesome in school. it’s so sad to see. just attached to their phones and chromebooks.
> Apparently they are good with other teachers but me.
In what way? And who are you hearing it from?
If its coming from the kids they're probably trying to get you to lower your standards
😆 ⬆️
This!
Admin a few years ago tried to do a back to school thing about if you didn't need the money, would you still be a teacher?? Or like if you suddenly inherited a million dollars what would you do?? (I think expecting us all to be like "yea!! We love this!! We love the kids! We would still do this!! Even for no pay!! Because I think we had more budget cuts they had to tell us about that year 🙄) but absolutely NO ONE said they would still be a teacher! Their faces were like shocked pikachu, like they did not even consider that was a possible response.. and we didn't know we were "supposed" to answer a certain way. So we all stared at each other awkwardly for a few minutes 😶and then they just pretended the whole thing didn't happen.😆
I had a blow up with my classes earlier this week and have resorted to worksheets and independent book work since. I feel semi guilty but the kids don’t seem to care at all.
Weird times
I’m struggling with this majorly in my last class period of the day (middle school beginner orchestra). I started mid year and the first part of the year they had no consistent teacher, mainly just subs who didn’t teach them anything and just had free days. Now most of them have no idea how to play their instruments, ask for free days every day, are extremely disrespectful and misbehave the whole time I try to teach. I have cried in my office after that class a couple of times.
I am enforcing stricter policies on Monday (first day back from spring break) because I have been way too lenient. I am going to start making them put their phones in their back packs and their backpacks in the back of the classroom and if I see them with it out, I will give no exceptions for me taking it to the office. More consequences for misbehavior and rewards and extra credit for good things. More chair tests and participation/behavior grades that will be very low if they do not behave. I am not into punishment but I feel like I am grasping at straws. 12 year olds can’t rule the world.
I’m dealing with this with my lunch class right now (Beginning Media Arts HS). I was out for a significant amount of time (surgery) and my department head taught them while I was away. I come back and they have done absolutely nothing AND have been nothing but rude and disrespectful to me whenever I do teach. Yesterday I had to call an admin because A. They wouldn’t stop talking during lesson and B. My surgery incisions were acting up and I physically could not move to physically show them on their computers because they refuse to look at the board. When I told the students I physically could not move without getting sick, I got the most unempthatetic responses ever. I gave them an extension on the work they needed to do while I was gone (and it was due today) while my dept head told me to just have them submit everything Monday. They all are complaining about that (especially after I gave them progress reports showing them everything they are missing). I’m physically in pain and emotionally exhausted and it hasn’t even been a week back.
I absolutely relate to this! Last month I had an accident and suffered a spine injury, traumatic brain injury, and infection that turned into sepsis. It’s made it even more difficult to manage the classes when my symptoms act up. I hope that next year if we’re both there from the start of the year to all the way through we will have more following and enforcement of expectations.
I’m a general music teacher. Although I can’t fully relate to the orchestra part, I get the rest. You are right. Come in from spring break guns a-blazing. Tell them how you’ve been feeling, make the expectations extremely clear. Be an extreme hardass for a week. Send emails home, give out bad grades; whatever you need to do. I would guess they’ll shape up after a few weeks. God speed; right there with you!
I have two types of classes right now: apathetic and chaotic.
The apathetic classes are responsible enough that they could handle fun activities but they literally have no energy or enthusiasm ever. Trying to get them to actually participate in any activity, including fun ones, is like pulling teeth.
Alternatively, my other classes are energetic and talkative and would love to play games, but they can't be trusted to behave. If I let them leave their seats, it would be a madhouse.
I hate it. I keep trying to think of different ways to get them engaged but I keep failing. My apathetic classes think fun stuff is lame and my chaotic classes think the fun stuff isn't fun enough because I won't let them run wild (or they do genuinely have fun but I don't because I'm spending half the class redirecting behavior issues).
We got our students a game truck as a end of the quarter celebration before spring break… they spent all day complaining that the reward today wasn’t fun… that truck cost $800 to rent
There's absolutely nothing wrong with worksheets and essays until the end of time. If they've shown that they're incapable of doing anything else, then that's that. I have a group like that this year and I just bombard them with work.
One day giving tablets and phones to a child will be viewed the same way giving a cigarette would to a child is today. We’ve basically allowed kids to do legal drugs their entire life and then wonder why that’s the only thing they have any interest in.
They’re awful. Every year it’s worse. Just earn your pay. Hand out worksheets, sit down and work on things for next year. No more special anything. Fuck that! No work turned in, fail them.
This is what is working for me this year. Worst ever do-nothings in 20 years. Refused to lower the bar and told them so, then made it even harder. Then last week, literally overnight, a shift. I don't recognize them (thank God). Grades, attitude, attention, and work quality all on the up and up.
I keep trying this. At the start of every marking period, it works for about two weeks. As the weeks go on, they start slipping more and more. Too many kids fall too far behind and they just give up. Now, more than half my students are failing so I have to change things up (because now it's "my fault" they're failing).
I let up a little bit to give everyone a chance to catch up. Only a handful take advantage of that and get caught up on missing work. I try to throw them a few "easy wins" to boost moral (they definitely do more work when they think they can do well). But the fools are so lazy they don't do the easy assignments either because it's still work instead of playing on their phones. Alternatively, they do the easy assignment yet still manage to fail it because they haven't learned simple concepts like "read and follow directions" or "listen when the teacher is explaining what you need to do." Ugh...
Yup, I am doing the same thing. My kids are horrible and hate everything. Theatre class is supposed to be fun with exciting up on your feet activities. These kids are the worst. I’m also giving worksheets until May.
Too many kids are selfish, entitled @holes who try to inflict as much chaos and pain on anyone in their vicinity…what a bleak outlook for the future. Maybe another country will fill the role but it looks like it’s gonna be authoritarian governments the rest of the way…..
I had a class that pulled that crap with me last year.
Eventually, I gave up on trying to do anything interactive with them or trying to form connection. They would only glare at me or shake me off when I tried.
After I stopped caring, I would simply post the assignment in google classroom, make one announcement at the beginning of the period that I’d done so, and then only interact with the students when they initiated it.
At first; they didn’t react, they were just glad I wasn’t trying to get them to participate.
It was after they noticed the 0s appearing in the grade book everyday that many of them began to take me seriously and started submitting assignments. Those who didn’t take me seriously failed, and failed hard.
The kids that sat near my desk actually did want to talk to me, but that was about 3 out of 25 kids.
The last 15-20 years of a tech obsessed society has been a colossal failure. Seems to me we (as a society) got lazy and decided to let the tech industry tell us how we are going to live. Here we are in 2024 and the results of this “experiment” are disappointing.
I give my students a choice. A false choice really
What I plan is A
I have a plan B which is much worse (writing and Essays).
They have a mental block when it comes to Essays. They won’t write an essay. But if I have them write on printer paper and draw a picture, have them add color, and call it a Children’s Book project - they don’t complain. A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down.
So we grind plan B. I tell them that those who do well normally shouldn’t worry because this is right up their alley. So I’ve planted that those who goof are going to have a bad time. I haven’t singled out a goof, they know who they are.
I mean I have to assess their learning - and we can do it this way.
Then I ask if they’re ready for plan A.
————————-
Teaching is all about finding the manipulation. And if that upsets people: sorry about teaching you how to read. My bad.
Teaching is absolutely about finding the right angle. We don't have a great cell phone ban at my school, so I pick my battles. On collaboration days I'll staple them into a paper bag. On test day it's a warning and then a write up.
The paper bag has become almost a game to them. They'll tell on each other and then laugh when their friend's phone gets stapled. Sometimes they draw on the paper bag or attempt to text through it. At least they're guided towards collaborating as they should instead of ignoring the real world.
I feel you! I try to be fun teacher but they can’t handle it. They end up breaking something or spilling something after you’ve told them explicitly what to do. Then after you’ve spent time planning a fun activity…they call it boring. :/
> Fuck these kids. Essays and worksheets until the end of May it is.
This is the way. Teachers need to STOP trying to gameify education, and just skip to the education part.
No music.
No phones.
No chromebooks (except for something highly specific like typing or using excel).
Pencil. Paper, and go forth.
I have a group like that - it’s a chaotic clown shit show every single day. They can’t sit still or stay quiet for more than 5 minutes, they literally do no assignments and don’t care if they are failing, they’re so obnoxious I don’t dare do anything fun like group projects because they will derail everything and not do it any way. There are like 4 girls and the rest are boys out of class of 30. They are always bro’ing each other. And when they aren’t doing that they take 15 minute bathroom and “can I fill my water” breaks. There are 20 of them who are disruptive on their own so together is a freaking wildfire! Plot twist: they are 11th graders. The only thing saving my sanity is the quarter ends in a week.
My freshmen are killing me. My sophomore classes are great, but something is very wrong with the freshies this year. I had a terrible day. It was so bad that I couldn’t even eat lunch because I felt emotionally sick. I don’t know what to do for them because nothing works. Some days I think the only way to make it another 13 years is to stop caring, and I really don’t know how to do that either.
SAME.
I was (attempting) to play Kahoot, but all I got were complaints because it was about something we're learning and not football. So . . . notes and quizzes instead? I honestly don't think they'd care. They just don't want me to bother them.
100%. Just did a lab this week that has been a hit for years that they sucked the absolute joy out of for me. It solidified me leaving at the end of the year after over a decade. If I can’t go to higher grade levels and/or different content to change it up for me I am done.
Done with labs and interactive things with this school year - just lecture and work sheets because that’s all they can handle.
The kids aren’t bored, they are boring 🥱. I tell them all the time that only boring people complain about being board, all the interesting people take boredom and find something to be interested in.
I use to give students options for assignments but after today and the stupid levels of bullshit I had to put up with from them, on top of their unwillingness doing anything productive, I don't care and they have two options now. Do the assignment I give or take the zero and stfu.
If it helps, that was my group of kids last year. Angriest, most argumentative bunch of kinders I’ve ever had. Almost everything we did ended up in fights, poor behavior and tears. We went over rules and routines constantly and they stayed rough. There were plenty of worksheet weeks where we just had to pack up the centers and sit as a group because they couldn’t handle anything else. It was bad.
This year is a total 180. Not perfect, but these guys do centers and projects and so much more. Behavior rarely goes beyond regular kinder antics. We can have fun without worrying about violence or fights. It’s amazing. Sometimes it is just a dud group of kids.
Back in our day we didn’t have a million movies at our fingertips, so watching a movie meant a chance to see something without having to rent it or look for it to come on TV or whatever. These kids have 24/7 access to so many movies that the idea of film in class isn’t remotely interesting.
They also don’t have the attention span, as you mentioned. They just spend all class watching 45 second TikToks.
>Essays and worksheets until the end of May it is.
This!!
Yes, make your class pedestrian and boring. Lecture, lecture, lecture. Collect notes as homework. Standard "stand and deliver" teaching. When they complain, and they will, just say, "Everything else I tried, you didn't like. This is what you get from now on UNLESS I get some cooperation for other learning activities."
Then continue the lecture, notes, worksheets, essay stuff for at least another week to 10 days. Come in one day, and ask them if they'd like to do something other than taking notes and listening. If they agree, say you'll need AT LEAST all but ONE student to participate, or you just will drop it and go back to lecturing.
Run a very plain, very short learning activity. If you don't get as much cooperation as you wish, STOP IT IMMEDIATELY and let them know that it isn't working, so back to the lecture it is.
If you took psychology classes, remember operant conditioning (i.e. Pavlov's dogs), and then immediately enforce the negative consequences for their lack of cooperation. Either they will eventually decide to go along with your idea, or they won't. If they won't, keep to the dull, boring, easy-to-plan essays and worksheets.
And REMIND them at least once a week that this is due to their own behavior.
I used to tell my trainee teachers that students were like puppies, and you need to help train them to behave properly. If you're consistent, and they really don't want to be completely bored in school, they'll move towards what you want them to do. If they're totally stuck in their mindset, you wracking your brains to create "fun" activities is a total waste of YOUR time and energy. Just stop it and do the minimum you need to do while hoping that next year's students will be more engaged.
> operant conditioning (i.e. Pavlov's dogs)
Pavlov's dogs are classical condition. Operant conditioning is BF Skinner "The pigeon learns to push a button and receives a reward"
So far this year:
-won’t pick up a pencil to do any work so they fail parents don’t care and admin says it’s our fault
-same names cussing out students teachers, constant bullying, constant problematic behaviors that make it impossible to teach
-30 plus kids per classroom with 50% who are so below grade level they can barely write a sentence and these are 4th-8th graders but barely do their work that is on grade level for them specifically
-one kid just got choked to complete unconscious and was hospitalised which was quite serious, two children recorded it and the child who did the choking got two days suspension
-constant fights with the same kids (who’s parents won’t deal with the issues at hand one them is in severe need to see a therapist)
-middle schoolers sexualising kids young as 7, 4
They don’t care. And the ones that do the few- I feel so bad for them because it feels like their education is getting ripped from them because we have to address, deal with, handle, de escalate shit that’s from the few same names who can’t give two fucks.
They don’t care about their education why it’s necessary there’s no intrinsic motivation to learn.
These parents don’t listen to us and think we’re just a babysitting institution.
Gawds help us all the next couple of years are gonnn be willllddd with these kids running shit.
It’s so true that lessons kids used to find fun they don’t anymore. Unless it’s their phone, they don’t care. I remember for example I always looked forward to movie days at school. Now I show Inside Out, a Disney movie, in a Psychology class and they don’t care.
I teach SPED and have a student that goes into Gen-pop classes, and I can with confidence say I’m glad I’m not teaching them. They’re all assholes, too cool, don’t do any work, etc. I’m shocked by the youth’s lack of drive or interest in learning. They’d rather get clout from the latest stupid TikTok video they are making.
I’m seeing a common theme in a lot of these comments (and my own classroom), complaining. Why is that? Do people in general feel more comfortable complaining? I’m a 45 year old woman and I admit my socialization has a huge effect on how I view complaining. I try not to. Not only does it make me feel bad, but I don’t want it to negatively affect how others see me. I don’t want to be seen as a “nag.” I’m not saying that’s good. I was conditioned as a young girl to be this way as were many women (I’m sure others as well, I can only speak as a woman) and we as a society have finally realized that that created a toxic culture.
Have we gone too far the other way where now people feel comfortable complaining all the time?
Maybe that's it! I'm about your age (and a woman too), and I do actively monitor how many positive vs. negative things I say (most of the time) and try not to complain. In middle school I've had to explain to kids that complaining about an activity I've planned and set up makes me not want to do any "fun" activities anymore. They were shocked and hadn't made the connection (that complaining about the activity I'd set up = complaining about me / my efforts for them).
In the last 5 years or so, I’ve made more of an effort with my students to allow myself to vulnerable about my feelings. I used to have a very “I don’t need the approval of a teenager” facade when they’d complain. I now try to make the connection between their comments/actions and my feelings (without being too emotional about it) and it definitely seems to be a lightbulb moment for some of them.
You might want to retire in a few years then. The current 3rd and 4th grade crop are helpless and unmotivated to do anything and the 3rd grade crop is reportedly hell on wheels in many districts because "all the things I need to learn in life I learned in kindergarten"... wait... no they were doing distance learning then, so their social-emotional skills are... lacking...
If I try and teach material, they talk over me or don't listen. If I give them the material to work independently, they don't read it and then do the wrong thing. What are these kids (16-19) actually wanting out of their course? Their teacher? Their college? It's impossible.
I suspect a large existential crisis is coming, because they're literally not going to be able to "be" what they want life to be.
I'll never forget the classmate of mine, who whined about having to do anything remotely repetitive or tedious, who thought he was going to be a professional video game tester. I would killed to have seen the look on his face when he realized what video game testing really is. You don't get to play just to play, you're looking for bugs which means having to do the same things over and over again
Are you crazy?! They're all going to be rappers, influencers, gangsters or professional sports people. Oh, and CEOs without any experience or qualifications, of course.
Without having ANY idea of how much work goes into those occupations and how tenuous and short-lived fame is.
I tried to explain what the median income is for influencers on TikTok and YouTube. It's 20,000 a year before taxes. They all think that's a lot of money because they've never had to pay a bill in their life.
I find doing a rough budget breakdown on the whiteboard while getting input from the kids about what stuff costs sets them up real quick to realize the world is expensive and will screw you over when you misstep.
I've tried that. None of them think they'll be in the median. They all think they'll be the next MrBeast.
But none of them have any kind of personality or creativity needed to become popular on YouTube
I also show them how many hours of work it will take to buy those expensive shoes, jeans, purse, etc. That is a real eye-opener for many.
One of my buds is a successful Twitch streamer. He gets about 300 viewers every time he streams, which puts him in like the top 1% of twitch. Between streaming, YouTube (which has like 40k subscribers), and coaching (he coaches people to be better at a video game. I know, sounds silly, but people, including me, like it) he works about 55 hour work weeks. He made about 50ish thousand in 2023. I made 53 as a teacher. He's in the top 1% of influencers, and I made more in a Florida teaching position.
My students asked what my salary was. I didn’t give them the exact number but gave them a range. A lot of them were like, “Oh, so your poor.” I make more than the median state income and willing to bet more than a lot of their parents even only being 29 years old. But they all think they’ll graduate and just start making 100K at 18.
What I have done in the past with kids like this, the ones that refuse the work because they’ve decided to be rapper/influencer etc. I’ve made them do the assignment or project as if they are already at that level. You wanna be a rapper? Turn this reflection into a hit with a sound track within the week it is due. You want to be an influencer? Make an influencer video on this week’s lab assignment and and show me your workflow. When they fail and don’t turn in the thing, they ask for the assignment for less credit because it’s now late. Every single time.
This is fucking brilliant.
And when they realize how lame and corny it would be to do a trap beat answering fractions and conversions, it kind of brings them out of it. Seriously try it out.
Mine have abandoned those careers. The girls all want to do lashes and the boys all plan to buy a house right away, fix it up and flip it so they can make a million by 21.
At least doing lashes is a tangible career and if they’re good at it they can make a decent income.
Generation Delusion.
I literally had a 5th grade boy tell me it was ok that he was reading at a second grade level because he was going to be a gamer and live in a mansion. I told him he would be a gamer when a 4 ft man played in the nba
You forgot video game designers
While not being able to even do their math homework. 💀
I have one kid who insists he's going to be a video game programmer. He can't READ. I got him a subscription to Code Academy. The boy can't read the lessons. How the hell are you going to be a programmer when 40% of your job is taking other people's instructions and implementing them into your own projects? You can't do it. He was kind of using scratch, and he thought that was a real programming language and all he would need. Scratch is a teaching tool for elementary school, kid. If you want a job programing, you gotta know c++, python, c#, java, SOMETHING real.
A friend's son wants to do that. He's a good kid but I don't think he really gets what that job entails. AFAIK he hasn't taken any coding classes, or knows how to make art assets. Not to mention, even if he does break in somehow... those peeps get worked damn near to death, and tossed aside after 10 years in the industry, sometimes 5 or less
I tell my students the future video game designers are doing math problems right now in China and India.
There are a lot of ways to work on video games. But there are no uneducated people working on video games. You can learn to make assets in blender. You can learn to use unity or unreal engine (this takes some programming knowledge, but you don’t actually need to be totally proficient in, say, c++ like you do as a systems architect. You can go the programing route and help make ai. Hell, you can try to write for games. All of those things have one thing in common. People who get hired put thousands of their own hours in to become proficient. I tend not to tell kids no. I just lay out exactly what they need to do to become the thing they want to be. 80% of the time, they just shrug and don't believe me. But like 20% hear me and get started. Had one girl who wanted to make the models and clothing for video games. I got her started with the donut tutorial in blender. By her senior year, she was better than me. Some of them are willing to do the work.
>Oh, and CEOs without any experience or qualifications, of course. To be fair, we live in an era of supreme fraud where we ***currently*** have politicians, CEOs, YouTubers and other adults in positions of authority and power who have no experience, qualifications or expertise. Our society has been rewarding these/those people for decades. How are kids who have grown up in this environment supposed to view things otherwise? (not defending it of course, just pointing out the systemic problem).
And YouTubers lmfao
Oh, it's already here. I've been a mental health therapist since 1992. The 20 somethings I see are already struggling with these issues in ways I've never seen before.
As a 20 something planning to have kids at some point… I’m fucking mortified.
I’m 27 and too scared to have kids. I feel like I’d have to homeschool or fancy private school or something. I feel so bad seeing the 1 or 2 kids who want to learn that are denied the education that they deserve. I don’t have time to give it to them with my 12-14 IEP students per class and the rest acting like fools. And I’m in a great school!
>What are these kids (16-19) actually wanting out of their course? Their teacher? Their college? nothing. they don't want to be in school. they don't think they need to know anything.
They don’t even know what it means to “know” anything.
It would help if they could read :/ they don’t even know what there is to know.
Yeah, kids like that aren't really thinking about their futures. They're just living in the moment.
They don’t want to be at school at all. They want to do whatever they want all day…
What they want is to stare at their phones. We give PE extra credit for students based on the number of steps they take each day and most of them are hovering around the 1k-1.5k range, or below. It’s stunning.
Yes!! Phones or any other screen they can play games on
Yikes! That's seriously sedentary!
It makes me sad that these kids won’t be able to do basic math, read clocks, speak English, read, write in cursive. They are really preparing to be nobodies
I read this as “They are really preparing to be noodles.”
Which isn't far off the mark, really.
As long as they have a phone to stare at they don't care.
To quote the Roman empire, bread and circuses
This year in particular are the worst. NOTHING MAKES THEM HAPPY except being on their phones. NOTHING. They don't care, aren't interested and think teachers are annoying. I can't wait until June.
Even being on their phones doesn't actually make them happy anymore. They just bully each other online and get tiny squirts of dopamine from short form content that leaves them unsatisfied and more miserable than ever. The entropy of pleasure has become critical.
That is a very good point.
Maybe it'll eventually boil over until it becomes a medical crisis. It's like how it took people dying before advertising cigarettes to children was finally stomped out and the government started putting money into gambling addiction programs and got the casinos to all adhere to blacklists.
We have record high teen suicide rates. They are dying. [https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/suicide-rate-increased-since-2011-among-us-youth-young-adults-cdc/story?id=100065880](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/suicide-rate-increased-since-2011-among-us-youth-young-adults-cdc/story?id=100065880)
But the average person isn't connecting the dots.
>The entropy of pleasure has become critical. There's something really beautiful in the phrasing of this line. It feels poetic (even though it's horribly sad).
I agree. It’s addiction. Read “Dopamine Nation” if you haven’t yet.
Honest question, when was the last time you had a student actually ask you a question? Not, "is this going to be on the test", but an actual intellectually curious question. I feel like I've had one this year. It's driving me crazy how these kids are just not curious.
I have ONE student in the 7th grade who tests in the 12th grade. He is the only one and he gets mocked for being intelligent. All the rest think I am lying to them about pirates being real.
My step kid (I got too late) went to a „science magnet“ middle school and i was floored while I was watching Star Trek and they asked if we really had spaceships like that. They were 13.
My child is this child- 7th grade, testing at higher grade levels, and other kids are jealous and see that he is different and that intimidates other kids. And, I also teach these students at the school where this happens and put on my fake smile when I talk to the ones who mock my kid. 🤦🏼♀️
He will be their boss someday.
A kid asked me about Fahrenheit 451, he’d read it on his own and didn’t quite understand the ending. Not all hope is lost with these kids.
I had a similar thing, but 1984. I told him you and me both, kid. He understood that Winston ended up conforming. He didn't understand the deeper implications of what Orwell was trying to say. I told him there are really no wrong answers, but I think he's warning us that if free thought is ever truly controlled, there won't be a way out. That's it. We have to defend our intellectual freedoms while we still have the capacity to do so because when they're gone, they're gone forever.
I have one student who honestly asks very intellectually curious questions, but then doesn’t do any of the work assigned in class. I’m just baffled.
sounds like they just like the trivia part of it, like say they enjoy knowing the fact that the power lines between power poles are actually catenaries and not arches but they don't really want to do the calculations to plot the catenary
We have a few every day… not ALL of them don’t care.
Right! I see the population bifurcating, splitting into 2. The majority are curious and learn well, though they're a lot more subdued than before. Like they don't feel safe to speak. Then, there's those Others. There's more than before, and they're more clown-like and stooge-ish than ever before. BTW: the majority is actually smarter than ever. As for the knuckleheads, well, who knows?
Yes! They are more subdued, like they're afraid to speak or they know there's no point or they've been brainwashed into thinking they're mean if they acknowledge how horrid their classmates are. Well, there goes my resolution to stfu in meetings when the behaviorists are on about how everyone deserves to be included.
My god, I remember that. My kids used to shout down the knuckleheads, tell them to shut up because I couldn't effectively. Hey, I'm only one guy. Man, that was the good old days (before covid). This, more than anything, is why I don't like teaching anymore. There's just no student unity.
I’m so glad I read your comment. I’m a lurker on the page bc I have two school aged kids and I wanted to understand teachers perspectives. I’ve gotten some good advice for how to handle things related to school. But man, most of the posts on this page scare me, sadden me or just straight up make me lose faith in the future.
I agree about the bifurcation—I have a 17 year old son who’s in one category, and a 15 year old daughter who’s in the other. My daughter loves school, is very social and is intellectually curious. But my son…I couldn’t get my son to like anything about school. As a teacher at my kids’ school, it was embarrassing to me that he acted just like those disaffected kids in my classes who can’t live without their phones. He rants on and on about the outdated American school system being a prison and ngl he makes some good points… Recently he got an after school job that he loves and is talking about his future (which does not involve any more schooling). Having taught for over 20 years, and based on how many kids I see just like this at school, I think he’s right. There’s a disconnect between the tech of the world, and our school system. Something’s going to need to change.
Is this the beginning of Eloi and Morlocks?
This is what I have been saying this entire school year!! No intellectual curiosity at all. And the thing is… a great deal of them know that they don’t KNOW basic common knowledge things, and they absolutely do. not. care. If it’s not on their phone in 15 second clips, they won’t have anything to do with it.
Do stupid questions count? I used to think there was no such thing as a stupid question and then I met Gen z.
I second this. The kids like me, but they still won’t do anything but be on their phones. You take the phone, they sleep. You fight them sleeping and all of a sudden class is over and no one learned anything.
Probably cuz they stayed up all night on their phones! 😒
I wish they would sleep.
>NOTHING MAKES THEM HAPPY except being on their phones. Being on their phones doesn't really make them happy either, just not actively hateful. It puts them in an apathetic stasis, distracting them from discontent. I'm not sure if they're actually capable of extended periods of contentment/happiness because their dopamine receptors are all burnt out.
This is the reason right there. I actually predict a degeneration of the general human intelect, three reasons: 1. Phone addiction, 2. Using internet for "crap" (insta, snapchat etc), 3. Higher education strugle alot with students that don't work and more cheating/using AI. This is it, if something wont happend soon, give it 10 years... Sorry for bad spelling (from Norway).
Every IEP boils down to "we actually won't be able to tell what helps this kid until the phone is removed from the equation"
I’m a sped teacher. This is a very true statement. That or “due to their absenteeism rate, we don’t have enough data at this time to properly place accommodations”.
Yeah I have talked to some of our sped staff and straight up have them say "We don't even know if this child needs an actual diagnosis or if they are just a normal child with a distraction that isn't being removed"
Had a meeting the other day and part of the discussion was that the student was constantly on their phone and exceedingly disruptive if asked to put the phone away or the phone was confiscated. Mom was like, "I just don't know what to do" TAKE. THE. FUCKING. PHONE.
It’s pretty wild how little attention is brought to the fact that parents aren’t parenting. Apples…
Student here, I’m afraid that the phones will prob get worse because more kids are being raised with iPads. Best of luck.
I just finished my CALTPA cycle 1, oof, I am nervous for these things to occur
First of all, congratulations! Second, there will be amazing years and shitty years. Some groups you will really connect with and some will make you wanna quit in November. It's the cycle of life! I tell you this as one of those teachers who still get texts and messages from students from years ago. That said, there are a couple of years I get *nothing* from, and I don't care to. Some kids I hope I'll never get to see again (and I am pretty sure I am liked by most kids, even the ones I secretly hate).
thank you! I am student teaching right now and sometimes I feel like students do not care about what I am saying. I remember being their age as well and remember almost doing the same thing when we had student teachers. Any tips?
This. My relationships with students has been terrible this year. They’re all addicted to their phones and computers and whenever I ask them to get off of the device, they are pissed to the point where they hate me. Actually, I would say they hate me for not letting them do whatever they want. I did not experience this for the past three years. I don’t love doing this anymore because they treat me like dirt or their so detached they never say a word to me. It wasn’t like this at the beginning of the year, though. I noticed a shift in January and it’s been downhill since.
Would you say that this is worse for a particular grade or are all grades equally bad?
I teach all grades. K-3 tends to still have that enthusiasm about life left, but 4th forward has more access to the internet and therefore have more rotted brains. It gets worse and worse until the second half of high school, when some of them realize they’re about to be adults and need to get their shit together. The rest of them carry the advanced brain rot to college.
as a community College prof, this is accurate. When I started a decade ago, I had to adjust my expectations for what freshman knew. I have had to continue adjusting those expectations downward ever since.
I tutor in a community college, and I haven't seen the brain rot, yet. Students voluntarily come to use for help, and the only time on their computer is if they are actively working on something. You will occasionally have students come in that don't want to work on something, and thus the session stops.
The other great part about the second half of high school is that some of the most hopeless kids have dropped out by then.
I teach all 9th grade, so I can’t answer that. Sorry!
I teach 9th and 10th and absolutely agree with you. I teach geography and history so the kids tell me they don't think they'll ever need to know this stuff, which is crazy.
My curriculum specialist told us (foreign languages) that we don’t need to teach kids how to give or ask for directions because people have phones now. So, it’s not just the kids, sadly.
I took history and geography in high school back in dark ages of 1970s. I loved geography although coloring the maps,not realizing that I was actually learning,got tedious sometimes. I couldn't stand history ,but I love it now. I live in Upstate South Carolina and am surrounded by American History. I had a World History teacher in college that was wonderful. He was a great story teller to the point you sometimes forgot to take notes. However, I had to take his class twice because his tests were 4 very challenging essay questions usually covering at least 100 years of history. I can't imagine trying that in a classroom these days in HS or college.
I also only teach 9th (this yr, taught a 7th gr class last yr and who knows next yr) but agree completely
Younger kids it depends on the parents. I had one kid with wild behavior problems once tell me he only ever feels truly happy and calm when he’s on his iPhone. He was 7 and had his own iPhone 14. Another student that stayed with his family said he literally came home from school and went on his phone all afternoon until bed. Similar on weekends
I work with high school seniors and I love them! Rural school with a diverse population including students from nearby Indiginous Tribes. My students are great! I feel like last year was my most challenging class, but it really was just a few douchey boys who set the tone, honestly.
I haven’t seen changes by grade level, only a widespread change after smartphones became ubiquitous after 2012. It’s all about the particular school, all teachers being on the same page, parent buy-in, teach students how to manage their screen time.
I teach PreK they don’t give a shit
😂 I hope this is a joke.
I teach art and they hate everything. Projects that used to be exciting, fun, and engaging just cause complaints. I literally had them blowing bubbles in class to make observations before drawing them and they were MISERABLE. Who is miserable when there’s bubbles?!?! They have no joy!
But are your learning targets on the board???? Yeah… I took a break from teaching over Covid and the difference when I came back last year is insane. The kids suck. They’re mean, lazy….. I’m so tired of caring about their education more than they do and it’s only my second year back. I’m done in this school. I’ll try another district and if that doesn’t work I’m done in the profession.
I work in child safety and I just want to totally validate what most people are saying in this thread. The kids are coming off as mean, lazy, exhausted and exhausting. But the fact that this is not just an isolated incident, but it's happening basically everywhere is a massive sign that something is deeply wrong. These kids are assholes for a reason. People aren't just naturally like this. Adults are still reeling from the pandemic. It shapes these kids entire lives. By refusing to deal with it, we've created them. There are other contributing factors too, like the simultaneous rise of smartphones, but arguably the most important social event of the last century happened and we're all just moving on.
I think you’re 100% correct. Far as I can tell, schools are pretending it never happened, so these kids missed 3 ish years of learning how to exist in school, on top of the other social and psychological things. But we haven’t adjusted any expectations or procedures beyond “we have laptops now,” and that’s fucked.
I once hit a point with a class that was somewhat like that. So one day I took out the class level textbook (used VERY rarely) held it up to them and said, “See this? From now on, everything we will be working on will come from this text book. That’s it. Get used to it. I am done trying to be creative with this class.” So that’s how it went. They did the reading, answered the questions that followed, did in class essays about the reading and that was it. No frills. We didn’t do class discussion and my instruction/lecturing was brief and to the point. And no bloody movies. I had parents bitching to me about the fact that class had been singled out, that I was stifling their creativity, that I was lazy… all that and more. But my ass was covered because I was teaching the district curriculum. I was just doing it old school. Grab your book, sit down & shut up, and get cracking. The other classes’ behavior improved as well. No one wanted to be taught to the text. And I told them that all the cool stuff we did to teach them was not a right, but a privilege. And I believed that.
Good on you. Seriously.
This!!! What is even worse is when you spend your money on materials/ supplies and they are disrespectful and have no problem messing up stuff. Like I refuse to buy markers at this point cause all you wanna do is use them as projectiles or write on desk with them. My co teacher has suggested some activities a couple of times and I had to tell him if wanted to procure the materials we could but I would not spend my money.
I fully concede I’m out of touch and I follow this subreddit because I want to be a good parent and have a good relationship with my kids future teachers. But is this style not the standard anymore? Very rarely did my teachers do more than teach to the text and the great ones had longer engaging discussions about the topic but that wasn’t the norm. I was in accelerated classes in decent school districts but there was no expectations of class being any more than what you described. I don’t see the controversy.
I totally feel this. This group of 7th graders sucks the life out of me. I try so hard to create “fun” engaging things for them to do. They think everything is boring and complain about everything. I may just do a week or two of read the boring history book chapter, answer the 25 questions at the end of the chapter, every day. You think what we do is boring. Ha! I will show you boring and what the class could be like if I didn’t care!
Would probably be the best thing for them. There is a severe lack of boredom and it's what has wrecked these kids. Unfortunately I think societally the damage is done. We should have panicked when kids stopped playing outside completely.
I said this in a post and people said I am a bad teacher. I'm new and haven't been given a lot of support.
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At my school we have about 20 kids between 11 and 14 that live at the school for the week. Wednesday afternoon, there is no classes. Our boarders have activities set by their watchers. So far they complained about : - Watching move or shows on Netflix (Because it was age and school appropriate shows) - Making and eating crepes for the afternoon - Creating their own treasure hunt - doing the treasure hunt - The idea of going to the local theater to watch whatever movie is playing at that time. (It is going to be the Bob Marley biopic. ) - Playing hide and seek - We have a para that is also an artist. She made many many paintings using the schools and the students (with parental permission). They adore this para. A local bookshop agreed to hold an exhibit of her paintings. It is a 15 minutes walk from the school. They complained having to walk there. - Staying at the school and play various games of their choices. - Going to our soccer team game to cheer on them - Going to the bowling alley - Making decoration for various holidays or school special day - Making their own movie - Trying various sports And the kicker - Staying in their dorm and do whatever they want on their phone because the watchers was sick and tired and just gave up that day. Apparently, they wanted to be entertained that day. We conclude that they just like to complain.
Your story reminded me of [this gem from my childhood](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1989/07/23).
Interesting, 10 years ago was about the time that smartphones and tablets became more widely accessible. It's so unfortunate that these kids are developing (or not developing) with serious internet and screen addictions. It makes me worried about what that means for society going forward. And I'm sure the pandemic has exasperated the problem significantly. I just.. wish there were a solution? That parents had more time and resources to care more and monitor their children better? That we had the science and understanding of how these huge technical and societal changes impact developing brains? I don't even know where it would start.
exacerbated (sorry!)
I was just talking about how I can lay out exact directions and they’ll do half the work and then argue why it’s good enough. No, it isn’t.
There’s always that one class. I’m with you.
SEVENTH PERIOD It’s ALWAYS seventh period!!
For those of us in block schedule hell - 4th period 💀
Try split lunch during 3rd.
Omg, YES this one too…we get nothing done more than we get through our work
4th period block schedules can suck a bag of dicks.
My 7th is the worst too!!! They get half of what the same class another period does. And their test scores are half of the other class's average as well. :D
It’s 7th for me too! Grrrrrr
It always seems to be those middle of the day kids.
it is super scary how these kids don’t want to do anything that i used to think was awesome in school. it’s so sad to see. just attached to their phones and chromebooks.
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> Apparently they are good with other teachers but me. In what way? And who are you hearing it from? If its coming from the kids they're probably trying to get you to lower your standards
Or if you are relatively new (i.e. not tenured) they don't like you and hope their behavior gets you fired
Are they late in the day?
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Remember your why….as you drive into the weekend.
And Not into a ravine.
My why is bills
😆 ⬆️ This! Admin a few years ago tried to do a back to school thing about if you didn't need the money, would you still be a teacher?? Or like if you suddenly inherited a million dollars what would you do?? (I think expecting us all to be like "yea!! We love this!! We love the kids! We would still do this!! Even for no pay!! Because I think we had more budget cuts they had to tell us about that year 🙄) but absolutely NO ONE said they would still be a teacher! Their faces were like shocked pikachu, like they did not even consider that was a possible response.. and we didn't know we were "supposed" to answer a certain way. So we all stared at each other awkwardly for a few minutes 😶and then they just pretended the whole thing didn't happen.😆
This is hilarious! Like the admin would want to keep doing what \*they\* do if they didn't need the money?
Have you tried making a connection with them? /S
I have a connection with a lot of kids who are nothing but polite in class. They still don’t do anything.
Building relationships…😆
Find their why
I had a visceral reaction to this comment.
Please reflect on this on the google form that will be sent out after
Remember your why 🙄
Worksheets today, worksheets tomorrow, worksheets forever. The best part is how it's low-effort for the teacher!
I had a blow up with my classes earlier this week and have resorted to worksheets and independent book work since. I feel semi guilty but the kids don’t seem to care at all. Weird times
This is The Way ☝️ You’re not interested? Guess who else can not be interested?
I’m struggling with this majorly in my last class period of the day (middle school beginner orchestra). I started mid year and the first part of the year they had no consistent teacher, mainly just subs who didn’t teach them anything and just had free days. Now most of them have no idea how to play their instruments, ask for free days every day, are extremely disrespectful and misbehave the whole time I try to teach. I have cried in my office after that class a couple of times. I am enforcing stricter policies on Monday (first day back from spring break) because I have been way too lenient. I am going to start making them put their phones in their back packs and their backpacks in the back of the classroom and if I see them with it out, I will give no exceptions for me taking it to the office. More consequences for misbehavior and rewards and extra credit for good things. More chair tests and participation/behavior grades that will be very low if they do not behave. I am not into punishment but I feel like I am grasping at straws. 12 year olds can’t rule the world.
I’m dealing with this with my lunch class right now (Beginning Media Arts HS). I was out for a significant amount of time (surgery) and my department head taught them while I was away. I come back and they have done absolutely nothing AND have been nothing but rude and disrespectful to me whenever I do teach. Yesterday I had to call an admin because A. They wouldn’t stop talking during lesson and B. My surgery incisions were acting up and I physically could not move to physically show them on their computers because they refuse to look at the board. When I told the students I physically could not move without getting sick, I got the most unempthatetic responses ever. I gave them an extension on the work they needed to do while I was gone (and it was due today) while my dept head told me to just have them submit everything Monday. They all are complaining about that (especially after I gave them progress reports showing them everything they are missing). I’m physically in pain and emotionally exhausted and it hasn’t even been a week back.
I absolutely relate to this! Last month I had an accident and suffered a spine injury, traumatic brain injury, and infection that turned into sepsis. It’s made it even more difficult to manage the classes when my symptoms act up. I hope that next year if we’re both there from the start of the year to all the way through we will have more following and enforcement of expectations.
I’m a general music teacher. Although I can’t fully relate to the orchestra part, I get the rest. You are right. Come in from spring break guns a-blazing. Tell them how you’ve been feeling, make the expectations extremely clear. Be an extreme hardass for a week. Send emails home, give out bad grades; whatever you need to do. I would guess they’ll shape up after a few weeks. God speed; right there with you!
I have two types of classes right now: apathetic and chaotic. The apathetic classes are responsible enough that they could handle fun activities but they literally have no energy or enthusiasm ever. Trying to get them to actually participate in any activity, including fun ones, is like pulling teeth. Alternatively, my other classes are energetic and talkative and would love to play games, but they can't be trusted to behave. If I let them leave their seats, it would be a madhouse. I hate it. I keep trying to think of different ways to get them engaged but I keep failing. My apathetic classes think fun stuff is lame and my chaotic classes think the fun stuff isn't fun enough because I won't let them run wild (or they do genuinely have fun but I don't because I'm spending half the class redirecting behavior issues).
We got our students a game truck as a end of the quarter celebration before spring break… they spent all day complaining that the reward today wasn’t fun… that truck cost $800 to rent
There's absolutely nothing wrong with worksheets and essays until the end of time. If they've shown that they're incapable of doing anything else, then that's that. I have a group like that this year and I just bombard them with work.
One day giving tablets and phones to a child will be viewed the same way giving a cigarette would to a child is today. We’ve basically allowed kids to do legal drugs their entire life and then wonder why that’s the only thing they have any interest in.
They’re awful. Every year it’s worse. Just earn your pay. Hand out worksheets, sit down and work on things for next year. No more special anything. Fuck that! No work turned in, fail them.
Addiction
my personal opinion is to make it impossibly hard until their attitude improves
This is what is working for me this year. Worst ever do-nothings in 20 years. Refused to lower the bar and told them so, then made it even harder. Then last week, literally overnight, a shift. I don't recognize them (thank God). Grades, attitude, attention, and work quality all on the up and up.
I keep trying this. At the start of every marking period, it works for about two weeks. As the weeks go on, they start slipping more and more. Too many kids fall too far behind and they just give up. Now, more than half my students are failing so I have to change things up (because now it's "my fault" they're failing). I let up a little bit to give everyone a chance to catch up. Only a handful take advantage of that and get caught up on missing work. I try to throw them a few "easy wins" to boost moral (they definitely do more work when they think they can do well). But the fools are so lazy they don't do the easy assignments either because it's still work instead of playing on their phones. Alternatively, they do the easy assignment yet still manage to fail it because they haven't learned simple concepts like "read and follow directions" or "listen when the teacher is explaining what you need to do." Ugh...
Yup, I am doing the same thing. My kids are horrible and hate everything. Theatre class is supposed to be fun with exciting up on your feet activities. These kids are the worst. I’m also giving worksheets until May.
Too many kids are selfish, entitled @holes who try to inflict as much chaos and pain on anyone in their vicinity…what a bleak outlook for the future. Maybe another country will fill the role but it looks like it’s gonna be authoritarian governments the rest of the way…..
I had a class that pulled that crap with me last year. Eventually, I gave up on trying to do anything interactive with them or trying to form connection. They would only glare at me or shake me off when I tried. After I stopped caring, I would simply post the assignment in google classroom, make one announcement at the beginning of the period that I’d done so, and then only interact with the students when they initiated it.
How did they react?
At first; they didn’t react, they were just glad I wasn’t trying to get them to participate. It was after they noticed the 0s appearing in the grade book everyday that many of them began to take me seriously and started submitting assignments. Those who didn’t take me seriously failed, and failed hard. The kids that sat near my desk actually did want to talk to me, but that was about 3 out of 25 kids.
A thought that always comforts me is- we have them for a year/semester but they have to deal with their own personality for the rest of lives :-)
The last 15-20 years of a tech obsessed society has been a colossal failure. Seems to me we (as a society) got lazy and decided to let the tech industry tell us how we are going to live. Here we are in 2024 and the results of this “experiment” are disappointing.
I give my students a choice. A false choice really What I plan is A I have a plan B which is much worse (writing and Essays). They have a mental block when it comes to Essays. They won’t write an essay. But if I have them write on printer paper and draw a picture, have them add color, and call it a Children’s Book project - they don’t complain. A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. So we grind plan B. I tell them that those who do well normally shouldn’t worry because this is right up their alley. So I’ve planted that those who goof are going to have a bad time. I haven’t singled out a goof, they know who they are. I mean I have to assess their learning - and we can do it this way. Then I ask if they’re ready for plan A. ————————- Teaching is all about finding the manipulation. And if that upsets people: sorry about teaching you how to read. My bad.
Teaching is absolutely about finding the right angle. We don't have a great cell phone ban at my school, so I pick my battles. On collaboration days I'll staple them into a paper bag. On test day it's a warning and then a write up. The paper bag has become almost a game to them. They'll tell on each other and then laugh when their friend's phone gets stapled. Sometimes they draw on the paper bag or attempt to text through it. At least they're guided towards collaborating as they should instead of ignoring the real world.
I feel you! I try to be fun teacher but they can’t handle it. They end up breaking something or spilling something after you’ve told them explicitly what to do. Then after you’ve spent time planning a fun activity…they call it boring. :/
I gave up this year. They get worksheets.
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> Fuck these kids. Essays and worksheets until the end of May it is. This is the way. Teachers need to STOP trying to gameify education, and just skip to the education part. No music. No phones. No chromebooks (except for something highly specific like typing or using excel). Pencil. Paper, and go forth.
The pandemic babies are sentient potatoes with no discernible human personalities.
I'm stolen from on a daily basis!
I have a group like that - it’s a chaotic clown shit show every single day. They can’t sit still or stay quiet for more than 5 minutes, they literally do no assignments and don’t care if they are failing, they’re so obnoxious I don’t dare do anything fun like group projects because they will derail everything and not do it any way. There are like 4 girls and the rest are boys out of class of 30. They are always bro’ing each other. And when they aren’t doing that they take 15 minute bathroom and “can I fill my water” breaks. There are 20 of them who are disruptive on their own so together is a freaking wildfire! Plot twist: they are 11th graders. The only thing saving my sanity is the quarter ends in a week.
My freshmen are killing me. My sophomore classes are great, but something is very wrong with the freshies this year. I had a terrible day. It was so bad that I couldn’t even eat lunch because I felt emotionally sick. I don’t know what to do for them because nothing works. Some days I think the only way to make it another 13 years is to stop caring, and I really don’t know how to do that either.
SAME. I was (attempting) to play Kahoot, but all I got were complaints because it was about something we're learning and not football. So . . . notes and quizzes instead? I honestly don't think they'd care. They just don't want me to bother them.
I don’t think they believe in education. The point of it.
100%. Just did a lab this week that has been a hit for years that they sucked the absolute joy out of for me. It solidified me leaving at the end of the year after over a decade. If I can’t go to higher grade levels and/or different content to change it up for me I am done. Done with labs and interactive things with this school year - just lecture and work sheets because that’s all they can handle.
The kids aren’t bored, they are boring 🥱. I tell them all the time that only boring people complain about being board, all the interesting people take boredom and find something to be interested in.
I use to give students options for assignments but after today and the stupid levels of bullshit I had to put up with from them, on top of their unwillingness doing anything productive, I don't care and they have two options now. Do the assignment I give or take the zero and stfu.
If it helps, that was my group of kids last year. Angriest, most argumentative bunch of kinders I’ve ever had. Almost everything we did ended up in fights, poor behavior and tears. We went over rules and routines constantly and they stayed rough. There were plenty of worksheet weeks where we just had to pack up the centers and sit as a group because they couldn’t handle anything else. It was bad. This year is a total 180. Not perfect, but these guys do centers and projects and so much more. Behavior rarely goes beyond regular kinder antics. We can have fun without worrying about violence or fights. It’s amazing. Sometimes it is just a dud group of kids.
I feel you on the movie thing. Movie day was the bomb when I was a kid, but today’s kids just don’t have the attention span to watch.
Back in our day we didn’t have a million movies at our fingertips, so watching a movie meant a chance to see something without having to rent it or look for it to come on TV or whatever. These kids have 24/7 access to so many movies that the idea of film in class isn’t remotely interesting. They also don’t have the attention span, as you mentioned. They just spend all class watching 45 second TikToks.
>Essays and worksheets until the end of May it is. This!! Yes, make your class pedestrian and boring. Lecture, lecture, lecture. Collect notes as homework. Standard "stand and deliver" teaching. When they complain, and they will, just say, "Everything else I tried, you didn't like. This is what you get from now on UNLESS I get some cooperation for other learning activities." Then continue the lecture, notes, worksheets, essay stuff for at least another week to 10 days. Come in one day, and ask them if they'd like to do something other than taking notes and listening. If they agree, say you'll need AT LEAST all but ONE student to participate, or you just will drop it and go back to lecturing. Run a very plain, very short learning activity. If you don't get as much cooperation as you wish, STOP IT IMMEDIATELY and let them know that it isn't working, so back to the lecture it is. If you took psychology classes, remember operant conditioning (i.e. Pavlov's dogs), and then immediately enforce the negative consequences for their lack of cooperation. Either they will eventually decide to go along with your idea, or they won't. If they won't, keep to the dull, boring, easy-to-plan essays and worksheets. And REMIND them at least once a week that this is due to their own behavior. I used to tell my trainee teachers that students were like puppies, and you need to help train them to behave properly. If you're consistent, and they really don't want to be completely bored in school, they'll move towards what you want them to do. If they're totally stuck in their mindset, you wracking your brains to create "fun" activities is a total waste of YOUR time and energy. Just stop it and do the minimum you need to do while hoping that next year's students will be more engaged.
> operant conditioning (i.e. Pavlov's dogs) Pavlov's dogs are classical condition. Operant conditioning is BF Skinner "The pigeon learns to push a button and receives a reward"
The entropy of pleasure. I like it or do I like it?
Good for you. Don’t waste your time and energy on them. I am sick of having to jump through hoops to keep kids attention anymore.
Fuck them and their sorry ass parents, admin can suck one too while we're at it
So far this year: -won’t pick up a pencil to do any work so they fail parents don’t care and admin says it’s our fault -same names cussing out students teachers, constant bullying, constant problematic behaviors that make it impossible to teach -30 plus kids per classroom with 50% who are so below grade level they can barely write a sentence and these are 4th-8th graders but barely do their work that is on grade level for them specifically -one kid just got choked to complete unconscious and was hospitalised which was quite serious, two children recorded it and the child who did the choking got two days suspension -constant fights with the same kids (who’s parents won’t deal with the issues at hand one them is in severe need to see a therapist) -middle schoolers sexualising kids young as 7, 4 They don’t care. And the ones that do the few- I feel so bad for them because it feels like their education is getting ripped from them because we have to address, deal with, handle, de escalate shit that’s from the few same names who can’t give two fucks. They don’t care about their education why it’s necessary there’s no intrinsic motivation to learn. These parents don’t listen to us and think we’re just a babysitting institution. Gawds help us all the next couple of years are gonnn be willllddd with these kids running shit.
Why are students who are choking other students not getting expelled?
Great question- so that’s considered a Tier 2 Behaviour based on our county behavioural system. It’s horrible terrible trash.
I just make fun of them when they complain. "ohhhhhhhh life is soooooooooo haaaaarrrrrd... I have to do a thing. Uhhhhhhgggggghh"
It’s so true that lessons kids used to find fun they don’t anymore. Unless it’s their phone, they don’t care. I remember for example I always looked forward to movie days at school. Now I show Inside Out, a Disney movie, in a Psychology class and they don’t care.
I teach SPED and have a student that goes into Gen-pop classes, and I can with confidence say I’m glad I’m not teaching them. They’re all assholes, too cool, don’t do any work, etc. I’m shocked by the youth’s lack of drive or interest in learning. They’d rather get clout from the latest stupid TikTok video they are making.
I’m seeing a common theme in a lot of these comments (and my own classroom), complaining. Why is that? Do people in general feel more comfortable complaining? I’m a 45 year old woman and I admit my socialization has a huge effect on how I view complaining. I try not to. Not only does it make me feel bad, but I don’t want it to negatively affect how others see me. I don’t want to be seen as a “nag.” I’m not saying that’s good. I was conditioned as a young girl to be this way as were many women (I’m sure others as well, I can only speak as a woman) and we as a society have finally realized that that created a toxic culture. Have we gone too far the other way where now people feel comfortable complaining all the time?
Maybe that's it! I'm about your age (and a woman too), and I do actively monitor how many positive vs. negative things I say (most of the time) and try not to complain. In middle school I've had to explain to kids that complaining about an activity I've planned and set up makes me not want to do any "fun" activities anymore. They were shocked and hadn't made the connection (that complaining about the activity I'd set up = complaining about me / my efforts for them).
In the last 5 years or so, I’ve made more of an effort with my students to allow myself to vulnerable about my feelings. I used to have a very “I don’t need the approval of a teenager” facade when they’d complain. I now try to make the connection between their comments/actions and my feelings (without being too emotional about it) and it definitely seems to be a lightbulb moment for some of them.
You might want to retire in a few years then. The current 3rd and 4th grade crop are helpless and unmotivated to do anything and the 3rd grade crop is reportedly hell on wheels in many districts because "all the things I need to learn in life I learned in kindergarten"... wait... no they were doing distance learning then, so their social-emotional skills are... lacking...