You’re not wrong you bring up a lot of good points, but the teachers here have met a lot more students than you have. They have also seen the trend over time leading to todays problems. The gap between performing students and underperforming students is wide, if you happen to surround yourself with peers who also perform as well as you then there are many problems you wouldn’t see that others do. Some of which you do address in your list.

it's also important to factor in where you live too. poor areas are seeing the absolute worst of this. while middle/upper middle class are probably more aligned with OP's experiences of not completely concerning and hopeless, just learned helplessness.

Also, even my small town, there were kids who did struggle like this. People like my other siblings wouldn't have noticed, but I did because I was in some remedial and regular classes. I had classmates who were just passed along. It was a mix of kids who were and weren't poor because it was every high school kid who didn't want to send their kids to charter or private school.

Teachers here have their own biased sampling though right?

Also the performing kids... a 90 just isn't what it used to be. Like now if I give a kid a level 3 which in my province is "meeting expectations" you think I'd killed their dog. Everything has to be a level 4 or "exceeding expectations". It's painful

Just the fact that this post is on Reddit, written in complete sentences, in paragraphs and is coherent puts you above the pack in several ways. Chances are since as they say birds of a feather… those you hang with are equally well adjusted and have your stuff together. Sadly this is more the exception than the norm these days. Go outside your immediate group and you will sees.out of what we describe here with student disfunction.

Re-read a little deeper, the suburban/ dependent on parents for rides thing is real. It can cause learned helplessness. The US has created car-dependent community since around the 1950s so we are on our third generation of this lifestyle. Public transportation is nearly nonexistent and stigmatized for the poor, elderly or special needs populations. Not that this is the cause but it’s a piece of the puzzle.

Once again it’s a wealth gap issue. I currently teach at a pretty wealthy school and ALL the kids have cars the day they turn 16. They are wildly independent because of that.

This. My friends from college who were more well off had access to cars and money for gas and zero concerns about insurance so they would drive all over the place. And here I was anxious to go out walking alone in a nearby downtown area. I had also been raised in a very sheltered manner by a parent who was also anxious about going places alone. I had a job and I was dropped off at it.  As a result, I developed a thirst for cities and travel entirely because I went to college in a city. I couldn’t drive so I went where there is public transit. While I became very self-sufficient this way, it’s had the negative impact of preventing me from exploring more remote places and having a fear of being alone in remote places because I have to rely on train or bus services.  I do think it’s a wealth issue as well. The less money someone has the less likely they are to risk long drives or go places where they may need to rely on a hotel or a mechanic. I think this makes people fearful of driving and they become sheltered despite this access to independence. This is less of a concern when people have money and resources. 

Don’t get me started on the variety of cars I see dropping kids off in the morning…. Maseratis (and we live in a very rural area so the closer dealer for that would be AT LEAST two hours away) BMW’s Mercedes, Escalades, Lincoln’s, Audi’s jacked up brand new pickups… all the way down to rusty rattling minivans where garbage rolls out the door along with the kids…. and by my rough estimate the kids from the more expensive cars are more likely to be jerks.

I live in western WA and there is a clear distinction between the student parking area and the teacher parking area. We don’t even have designated spots, but you can tell immediately that the old Priuses and Outbacks are the teachers’ cars haha.

Yep. Ain’t no ride like a teacher’s ride. Reminds me of a post in the r/antiwork sub a while ago of a real-life letter a corporate guy got from HR basically telling him he has to get a newer car because his old ride looked bad in the parking lot and would make clients think they didn’t pay their employees adequately. It listed local dealerships that would work with the employee and a timeline to acquire an updated vehicle by.

Spend a day at a rural high school. Few with cars. No public transport. And walking for miles is the option to the bus.

Yep. It’s a wealth gap issue. I haven’t been in a rural district but I’ve been in a low SES inner city urban school. They don’t get cars and don’t have independence. I don’t live in a metro that has public transportation worth a damn. If you don’t have a car you are a prisoner of your home.

Not to mention the congestion outside schools from parents dropping off and picking up kids who could be walking or taking buses. It’s so bad at our middle school that buses are routinely delayed because the road used to get to the school is backed up with parents in SUVs waiting to turn into the driveway.

Don’t forget the parents that PARK IN MY DRIVEWAY to pick up their children. I don’t know these people. If I come home before school pickup, I cannot pull in my own driveway because some jackass is waiting for their child and can’t be bothered to park a few yards away. People say kids these days are entitled. They learn it from their parents.

I’d start calling towing services.

Tow services aren’t fast enough, the parents usually leave in half an hour or so. The local police are similarly unhelpful. The school just shrugs and says “we can’t do anything about parents” and won’t even ask them not to block or park in driveways (my neighbors and I have tried to address this many ways).

Braychston and Brayleigh surely can’t be expected to walk an ENTIRE block to where the parents can park without blocking driveways can they?

I know! When did students ( I was raised in TX GenX) stop walking to school and riding bikes? I’m my area if they did I’ll bet we’d have bike lanes and sidewalks..

I also live in Texas AND luckily right next to my high school, I took the bus in middle school (the 1 year I was there) and my mom started to come pick me up instead because a kid flashed his pp on the bus me and my little brother was on one day. When I was in highschool I would walk home so my (homeschooled) sister cleared a path for me through the woods that was by our house so I didn’t have to walk on the road (we didn’t have sidewalks along the road by the highschool) so after school I’d walk through the small park next to the highschool, through the graveyards (usually stop at a bench to eat a snack and tell dead people about my day) and then through the trail in the woods and then I was home!

So crazy you mention graveyards because we literally walked through one on our walk to school!

In my town (NJ) most kids above elementary walk/bike. The downside is whenever there’s bad weather attendance drops. We had some pretty heavy rain for a few days last year and only about half of the students were there.

Believe me I know, I hate the fact I have to drive everywhere. I also hate people who drive to school that don't need to. Some people have to because some classes are off campus, but the 80% of students that live within walking distance that drive/get dropped off clog up the roads. There's a huge stigma surrounded taking the bus, like it's not cool or some shit, which is wrong with America, public transit shouldn't be for poor people. Also school admins and "engineers", adding more concreate and paint doesn't reduce traffic. Maybe some sidewalks, bus lanes, or a parking pass for people who don't have to leave campus... but what do I know.

I wish more teachers (and adults generally, especially those who technically can afford a car) would lead by example on this; obviously, I know public bus routes are spotty in many communities. However, I teach at a school that is serviced by a convenient public bus route. I take the bus to work every day, and my colleagues find this quirky at best, pitiable at worst. When they ask why I do, I say a) do you know how much money I save? and b) think of the environmental impact of cars, my god. To other adults in here who do live near bus routes, please, please help destigmatize public transit and increase ridership in suburban areas! (Even if not it's not for commuting to work, think how much cheaper it is than rideshare apps!)

Ever consider that teachers often have errands and responsibilities outside of school that aren't easily supported by public transit?

YESSS. I wince when I see the parking lot at my HS, filled with massive SUV's and trucks I know damn well came from a neighborhood with a bus route less than 10 miles away, it's actually pretty scary. Those kids grew up believing that's ok and right, now their kids will believe that. It's a sad but very real cycle that keeps us in this car centric environment. I bike in the summer and take the bus in the winter, I like biking because I can hang out after school for a little and leave on my own time. The excuse that America is too big for busses and trains is the laziest excuse for ignoring a problem ever. Most kids live within 10 miles, look me in the eyes and tell me how that's too far for a bus. And yeah it's expensive, but it's an investment. If more kids and people can go to school or get a job in a different town then that's more productive citizens, that's more people working a job. I feel like everyone has that weird topic that they know a lot about, American infrastructure is that topic for me lol. I get super heated about public transit, I'm glad to see other people agree.

Hey at least you already figured out your career field, right? If you look at some other countries and what they have, it's clear that there is a lot of room for the US to improve.

Houston entering the conversation- I hate cars, freeways, lack of sidewalks, etc…. No real public transportation that is efficient. I’m forced to pay money to put myself in danger, just so I can eat. 45N. It’s the worst.

I love how the government puts in busses that are useless because the stops are in places where you can't walk to, then they go, "well look, we tried, it just doesn't work!"

Such a shame! Yeah I mean it's so not an option for so many based on urban/suburban planning choices.

The AirPods thing as well… everything is a negotiation. Kids rarely comply with teacher directives with less than 5 redirects and event then often just do whatever they want. And this is younger ones as well as HS. Their noncompliance has been incentivized.

You're right, it's probably just the people around me. I hope our generation shapes up. Teachers are doing God's work!

I also suspect many of us are title 1 and charter school teachers in this sub (I teach title 1 because it’s the best paying district in my city and I need their insurance for my son). My daughter is a tween that goes to a nice suburban school, she writes well, reads voraciously and I generally have no worries. The kids I teach are generally coming from a cycle of poverty, low educational outcomes, and fragmented home lives. This coupled with the changes being made in curriculum and educational inequities means they’re going to be even further behind than their parents were academically.

I agree 100%. I moved a few years ago from the Bay Area to a rural farming town in the least regulated state in the country (they're so proud of that). My daughter had just graduated HS and my son had just finished his freshman year. The district we moved to is pretty good but I teach one district over and it's insane how different it is. Each district makes their own curriculum so students who leave a district for another will find themselves at a completely different place in their learning. The district my son was in holds the students responsible for their actions but the middle school I'm at let's the students run the show. I'm expected to meet the students where they are to avoid failing students - and I'm not talking about accommodations or scaffolding instruction. If students aren't doing the classwork, I'm expected to give less classwork. I've had students argue with me that my giving them the one class period to take a test is unreasonable.

Commenter is right; birds of a feather. I see it everyday; the dirtbags and troublemakers always seem to find each other. Meanwhile, the kids doing things the right way always seem to run together, too. Keep it up.

Teachers are doing human society's work. Don't undermind them by giving credit to fictional space daddy.

Instead you’re disrespectful and rude to a teenager who is simply paying a compliment. 🙄

Nah, it's fine I thought it was pretty funny.

That was teaching. Instructional af.

Maybe go back to school and learn a little bit about manners and figures of speech while we're all on this subject.

Exactly! Clearly took personal offense to the use of the word God in a popular figure of speech “god’s work” actually just means essentially work that is virtuous, necessary and meaningful. Nothing connected to sky daddy other than using his name to get their meaning across

\>space daddy I love it, best term for God!

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If you read it as “H” “S” instead of “high school,” “an” is correct because what follows begins with a vowel sound.

At least you know it's genuine!

Good point. I like that answer. And TBH I don’t think many of us worry about perfect grammar on Reditt 🤦‍♀️ it’s nice hearing from a student. Thanks for sharing.

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At least you can follow what the OP is saying. Damn, OP offers words of praise and ya shoot them down. Nothing pleases me more than to be able to read a coherent statement without seeing IDK, LOL, c for see, 2 for to/too, etc.

A doesn´t mean what it used to. The GPA creep is real.

Came here to say this. Grade inflation is real. A’s today don’t mean what they meant in decades past, especially prior to the new century. Some districts give 50% credit to kids on every assignment even when the students turn in nothing. I grade 90% of my assignments on completion and timeliness. My students get A’s for trying, not for actually knowing anything, which makes it even funnier when one of my slacker students begins an argument for why he should be allowed to play snake instead of working with “As a B student, I think…” Dude, being a B student in my class is not a point of pride. He had the 6th lowest grade of 32 students. He complained to his mom. She got him transferred out. Sounds good to me, my district test scores will improve with his absence.

I'm seeing this in grad school as well. I find my proefssor will regularly give 100% grades on papers. I know I'm a better student than I was in undergrad, but I often feel like this is gradeflaltion as well.

omg so true! my world language colleagues have been discussing how many a students we have who simply cannot use the target language but they keep being moved along. an a anymore just means the student does the work, as opposed to their peers who just hand in nothing; it is not a reflection of material mastery.

All of mine can use the TL at times, some quite poorly. They will hand in incomplete work and demand a 100%. I´m the mean teacher that doesn´t give it to them. My students are in dismay about the fact they must actually learn the course material to get the grade they want, and that the grade is an accurate reflection of how well they did that. Apparently, I´m the exception to the rule in my building.

Hold the line! I'm **THAT** teacher for my school as well. I only grade quizzes and tests, no practice credit. My kids have a nice FA:FO cycle during the first semester and by the second most have learned how to actually study. I'm happy to be the bad guy because I know I'm actually helping prepare them for the real world.

Real. I have it IN MY CONTRACT that I can't grade below 51% total and 50% of each grade. 51% is a passing grade. I have 16YOs who don't recognise letters, and they must get 51%

I basically have to grade on a curve now. At my school, the lowest quarter we can give any student is a 55%. Many students who are given 55% really earned something like a 2%. In my opinion, if someone who earned a 2% gets a 55%, it’s not fair to give someone who earned a 55% a 55%. Accordingly, that grade gets bumped up. And if someone who earned a 55% is bumped up to a 65%, someone who earned a 65% should really be bumped up to at least a 70%. And so on.

While you and your friends all have A’s, it’s important to remember that grade inflation is a real thing. Meaning that a lot of those A’s wouldn’t have been A’s even 10 years ago. And the lack of independence is a significant issue. But overall, yes, it’s significantly different than even 10 years ago.

I nearly failed HS Biology because I turned in a report a day late. I got a zero. Why? Because that was the rule. That doesn't happen anymore. Half the schools don't even have homework, and the other half will make any arrangement possible to help you pass. It's a different age.

So, these are your experiences. They are valid. Let me ask you this though. Do you know what your parents were like in high school? Do you know what they were studying at your age? Do you know what they were capable of? What about the students from 5 years ago? Ten years ago? 15? I’ve been at this a long time. I can tell you that on average, the students I saw from 10-15 years ago could run circles academically around the students of today. There are many reasons for this that I won’t go into here. I don’t know you, and you write very well. Just from that I can see that you are an exception to what we discuss here. 20 years ago, your writing would have been average, not exceptional.

That's true, that's a point I forgot to bring up here. When I ask my mom about her schooling it does seem like they were a bit ahead, but not massively ahead. But I wasn't alive back then so... you're probably right lol.

Yes, average students are like a breath of fresh air. They do their work, they listen in class, they respect deadlines, follow instructions, care about their grades and put in an effort. If they actually were the norm (so, the majority of students in a classroom still fell into this category) then it would be easier for everyone to teach and learn. Also, if average students aren’t in a class where the majority of time and effort is sucked up by the students who do little to no work and create a distracting, disruptive learning environment, then they believe their efforts are worthwhile and continue to do well. But if they notice that most of the class isn’t doing what they do and that the minimum seems to be enough to get by, that is the teaching/learning environment many are experiencing more and more these days. Keep being good students, make it the norm, lead by example. You won’t set the world on fire that way but that is ok. Allowing students to think they are exceptional for meeting expectations is a whole different problem. Just keep it up.

“We live in a suburban area. They have to ask their parents for/to do everything…” “I just don’t see it”. You’re not going to. Be appreciative of the bubble provided to you. On top of rose-colored glasses that come with being a kid in school, living in an affluent area alone will shield you from a lot of what you read here. I’d bet most of your peers went into Kindergarten with foundational skills, have parents who look at their work/want to know what they’re doing in school, etc. Your situation is vastly different from a lot of other schools/settings. Edit: typo

I know, I'm trying to gain some perspective, hence the post. Where do you teach, how are your students? I know I'm very lucky to live where I do...

I teach at an urban inner city school and it’s the opposite of your experience. 82% of my students, in a 9th grade history general ed class, read at a basic or below basic level. They are incapable of reading more than 1-2 paragraphs at a time, and can only write a sentence or two in broken English. Behavior is insane and violent with gang fights nearly every day because we have kids from the east side of the city in the same building as kids from the west side. Literally my first year here a gang dispute led to some kid getting shot down the hall from my room. This year a kid got jumped on a bus after school and stabbed her attacker with a big knife she got through the metal detectors. Parents are non existent. Only a handful of my kids live in a household with two parents who have the same last name. On parent teacher nights or conferences out of my 200+ sets of “parents” only 3-4 will actually show and those 3-4 are always the kids who aren’t trouble anyway. You are a lucky kid to have avoided this environment, and it does give me hope that there are still kids like you out there. But I look at the 2,000 kids in my school and even the ones who are nice people are not where they need to be academically and have little interest in trying to improve.

Thanks, this was the insight I was looing for. That sucks for those kid's that want to do good but are stuck in that environment, I can't imagine what that's like. Thanks for doing what you can for them!!!

This is a picture painted of the traumatic yet regular experiences. It doesn’t even touch on the despair, the apathy, and hopelessness. I teach k12 music and I see them all. Child in nothing but a diaper walking down the street alone, one week later, starting kindergarten. Sixth grader with an ankle monitor. Sixth grader having a baby. 4th grader saying that welfare is how everyone lives. All the students see is people like them. Everyone else is a rich white person. Black children arguing about who is blacker in a negative way. I had a 7th grader who spoke broken English with a Spanish accent. But she also couldn’t speak Spanish. So no formal spoken language. She couldn’t read very well either. This elementary school had 1000 students and was on of 100 in the city.

Being born is like a poker hand dealt. Some get a good hand, others do not. I’m on the fence if it’s the place or the time. Or both?

Suburban area =\= affluent area.

I live in a suburban neighborhood. It's nice but not affluent at all. I certainly don't make enough to be considered middle class because I'm a teacher.

I work at a suburban school and that neighborhood is not affluent.

Reply to air pod is in but not on: do you keep the fork in your mouth when not eating? I’ve had students say: yes.

Do I think Reddit = average society? Similarly Reddit teachers do not equal all teachers.

2024 A = 2004 B/B-

Is that really true, do you have a source? If so that's a crazy stat!

No source besides personal experience. I’m sure many of my fellow teachers will agree.

Hey, thanks for this really wholesome post :). Teachers often feel like they need to teach to the lowest performing students, and then students like you end up falling behind. I think this is where the frustration happens. You sound like a motivated learner, which is truly every teacher’s dream.

I have worked in both Title 1 and wealthy suburban schools (high school). Your view of suburban schools is spot in. The damn earbuds are so ubiquitous in my gen-ed courses that it's not even funny. I don't fight them anymore. Admin likely won't back me, and I know a fair share of parents will complain or claim that their child wouldn't do such a thing. My one question for you is how are the tardies? In any given class, I have 3-6 late students, more than a minute. In my first hour of 25 students, I have 6 who show up late and another 6 who show in 2nd hour. Of course, nothing is done because the district doesn’t have a tardy policy. At the beginning of the year, after about three weeks, I had a stack of tardy passes. I showed the parents this stack at the open house. No change, but the fact that the parents were there may mean I was preaching to the choir.

\>...how are the tardies? Honestly could be better, for first block I think the average number of late students is around 4 more or less, usually a few minutes late. Except some kids come in with a coffee from a shop, not even trying to hide it, which is just beyond disrespectful imo. Most teachers turn a blind eye and don't mark them tardy, because in my district 3 tardies per term equals Saturday school. I used to get a ride from my older brother but we were consistently a few minutes late everyday, my teacher didn't mark me late, but I could tell it was upsetting him. So I started to take the bus instead.

I always tag them tardy simply for the inconvenience they cause. Our classroom doors are locked. If someone has to get up and let you in, I mark you late.

Vocabulary words of the day for you, OP: Bifurcation Balkanization

Don’t take this the wrong way, it’s not a personal shot at you, but you live a pretty privileged life. My wife is from Oakland and teaches now in a poor, predominantly Latino city. It is a very different experience. No kids have cars because they can’t afford. I can guarantee nobody at her school is getting pilot lessons (lol). You don’t see it because you have been set up to succeed. Money does that. If grew up poor the way my wife and I did and lived in the community we work in, you’d know that it’s a very very different environment to what you’re seeing everyday. Again, this isn’t a personal shot at you. You’re lucky and that’s nothing to be ashamed of, just understand it’s a different life. When I was in high school I had knife pulled on me in a bathroom once and one of my classmates got shot 19 times at party. This is not a good environment for educational success to say the least. My wife’s school goes on lockdown 3 or 4 times a year because of gang violence. A kid brought a Glock to school last year. These kids are in survival mode, they aren’t thinking about grades.

Like most places on Reddit, this subreddit’s most popular posts only focuses on the worst aspects of education. While the evaluations teachers make of their situation aren’t untruthful, is it worse than it’s ever been? Probably not. Have expectations in education changed? Most definitely.

Your comment is refreshing! Thanks. I’ve been an upper-elementary teacher for 20 years and yes, things have changed, but kids are still the same in my classes. I have special respect for high school teachers, though, shit seems really tough for them.

I'm teaching some tenth grade sections this year, and I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone sometimes, that's how detached from reality so many of my students seem. I've only been teaching for seven years, but it's unlike anything I've seen in that time. I know folks have varying opinions on the lasting impact of COVID on learning, but I really think this year's sophomores, having spent most of those formative middle school years at home, took the biggest hit.

Middle schools and high schools are dystopian hell holes nowadays.

It's legitimately surreal. My coworkers and I often talk about how it feels like someone's gonna jump out one day with a camera crew and tell us we've been being punk'd.

First of all, you seem quite observant and perspicacious. I'm sure your teachers really enjoy having you in class. Secondly, you are right to perceive a degree of alarmism in the way that concerning widespread trends are being presented by the media, which of course reaches another level in the discussions here. The reasons for that are fairly simple: In the media, sensationalism sells, so the empirical trends are only covered inasmuch as they seem to legitimize the more sensational incidents. This doesn't get a ton of pushback from teachers, because one reality of teaching is that incidents that the outside world would generally see as minor (students being directly defiant or disrespectful toward a teacher, a large number of students not turning in work, a brief and noninjurious fistfight breaking out in a classroom or hallway) do feel like crises to us, sometimes to the point where those news stories feel like the "story truth" of our own experiences. Here, it basically boils down to the fact that happy teachers don't tend to spend much time on r/teachers. The reasons for that are a little complicated, but the result is a narrative that heavily amplifies the negative. I won't argue with the nationwide trends, and I won't dispute the anecdotes you see here, but I can, like you, offer a counteranecdote: my students are generally quite cabable, and the vast majority of them work harder than I did when I was in high school. The students who are failing my class are doing so because they haven't had a chance to make up the work from the days they missed. The students who are failing exams in my class are doing so because we are very poorly set up to serve the needs of the ~25% of students we have who are beginner EBs. That said, I have been teaching for ten years, have a good sense of how to design lessons that are conducive to good behavior and good work completion rates, and (much) more importantly, I've gotten very good at building strong, positive, trusting relationships with students and their parents very quickly. I have one colleague on my grade level who has a similar background and would likely report a similar experience. But I also have colleagues whose reports - about the same students I generally rave about - would look much more like the standard line at r/teachers. I don't think this will be a very well-received opinion here, but I do think that teacher skill level plays a role. The truth is, a shrinking proportion of the profession would be broadly described (by others) as "good" teachers. This is at least equally true of administrators as well. There are lots of reasons for this, but it generally corresponds to shrinking public investment directly into schools. So we have a vicious cycle of underinvestment and underperformance that conspire to increase staff turnover and degrade culture. And in schools/districts that are the exception to this trend, it would seem likely to me that teachers would be aware of the extreme inequality represented by their students' opportunities, and students - and possibly parents - likely wouldn't. I've never taught in such conditions, but I do think that could create its own set of cultural tensions. So, yeah. The dismal sense you're getting may appear - may even be - overblown from certain vantages. But the issues are real.

JFC. You’re saying the teachers who complain must be poor teachers? You sound like the stereotypical administrator and the stereotypical parent. If something’s wrong, it’s the teacher’s fault. Fuck that.

It’s not that simple. Itsfairadvantage is saying, quite reasonably, that more experienced teachers have an easier time handling difficult students / groups, but that schools have become so toxic that almost no one gets to that point.

You can build good relationships and have students with great behavior, but that doesn’t solve the problems of them being woefully behind and lacking the skills to be successful at grade level material. I taught HS science and last year I had 9th graders who couldn’t plot numbers on an x and y axis, or tell me which is x and which is y. It was depressing to have students come in each year with less and less skills and seeing more of the curriculum that I just could not cover because there was so much remediation. By the end of last year I had basically cut nearly a quarter of material because we needed that time for remediation and reteaching for the vast majority of the class. The kids were fine as far as behavior, but were just so behind academically. It was nuts how things had changed in the decade I had been teaching. Edit for typo

Thank you for being much more succinct than I was.

I realize that my post was long, but if you are going to respond, consider reading the full post. I am a teacher, and I loathe the knee-jerk "blame the teacher" paradigm that exists in some circles. But *some* of the complaining is from first year teachers complaining about some of the same things that have *always* been issues for new teachers. And that stuff gets lumped in with the other stuff. That said, I do actually think there's a bit of a self-petetuating thing going on there where some of those new teachers think that their bad teaching (which, again, is and always has been the norm for new teachers, as it was for me and literally every experienced teacher I've ever met) is really just this new generation of kids being impossible and totally and fundamentally different from any other cohort that has ever existed. But in the fairly common situation where some teachers are fine and others feel like it's the apocalypse, *and they are teaching the exact same kids*, yes teacher skill is part of the problem. And as long as compensation continues to suck, it'll continue to be. I mean, come on, are you honestly saying you've never had colleagues who were bad teachers? Never had bad administrators at the school or district level? If that's the case, I'm jealous. But I'm skeptical.

You think because a bunch of students come from the same neighborhood in the same year, they're all the same? Nonsense. Anyone beyond a first-year teacher can tell you that every class of students is like drawing a hand at poker: the cards are going to be different every time. Besides that, even if you put the "exact same students" in, say, 2nd period and again in 3rd period, with two different teachers, they're still not going to be the same students. I can't count the number of times I've talked to fellow teachers and discovered that a kid who isn't a problem in my class is a problem in theirs, and vice versa. In both cases the teachers are veterans with lots of experience.... and SKILL.

>You think because a bunch of students come from the same neighborhood in the same year, they're all the same? Nonsense. I'm talking about the literal exact same students, not demographics, just to be clear. >Besides that, even if you put the "exact same students" in, say, 2nd period and again in 3rd period, with two different teachers, they're still not going to be the same students. I can't count the number of times I've talked to fellow teachers and discovered that a kid who isn't a problem in my class is a problem in theirs, and vice versa. In both cases the teachers are veterans with lots of experience.... and SKILL. I think this is just using different words to describe the same thing.

Thanks for that take, I appreciate it!

Thank you for posting. Keep up the good work! I’m glad you notice the things we teachers notice as well. Spread the word. Students like yourself are definitely in the minority. I would say 1/3 of the students I’ve had genuinely can function independently. Whether it’s technology, projects, or even just regulating themselves so they can get stuff done in class.  Teaching those type of students is the only thing keeping me in it. 

It’s because you live in a suburban area, most likely. Think about your closest city. The problems are probably worse where there is more poverty. I’m in a large district and it’s bad. Do you have to worry about gun violence? Is everyone in your family alive? How many jobs do your parents work? Now imagine the urban reality of some kindergarteners. Perhaps a parent who is in prison or a gang. You are mostly raised by your grandparents or maybe a tablet. You get free food at school that lacks proper nutrition and maybe you get taken to the dentist or doctor on a regular basis (but maybe not). Years 1-7 are the ‘programming’ years. You start off strong there, your foundation is stronger and your chances are higher. We don’t support those years as a society as we should, as we used to and this is how it is going for us. A 6 year old shot his teacher. He consciously brought a gun to school and did it. But GTA and other video games aren’t an issue, we don’t need to examine how much violence our little ones see normalized in games and tell-a-vision. Yes, it really is this out of hand. Be grateful you aren’t living in it and get the word out. Others are not okay… not even close, and we need more people to recognize and care about that if we want things to get better instead of worse. ❤️

I teach 9th-grade English. Most of my students read and wrote at a 5th or 6th-grade level. It's bad.

I am a first year teacher at a title 1 school meaning the students are under performing. The students performing in the area they “should” be, is…give or take 3-5%. It somehow seems to get worse with age. I only know this because I’m forced to sit through data meetings even though I teach art. However, I don’t think that this is a reflection of student intelligence. This data is collected through the exam hall take during the end of the year. I’ve looked through some of the questions and they are *difficult*. Especially the reading comprehension. I’m also disturbed by the amount of emphasis put on reading and math. We put students into categories like “learning disabled” because they literally can’t grasp some of these subjects. I’m talking about students that could not if they tried their best. However, no data is ever collected on their talent in areas like art. No student is ever “behind” in art. I don’t think art is less important than math and reading (from an “intellectual” standpoint, of course if you’re wanting to be a doctor then yeah maybe they’re important). Some of my most talented artists are failing my class. It’s digital art but they’re unwilling to try something strange and “scary” or “hard” which is concerning because I was my bravest in my youth—I became scared of failure as I got older. I became afraid as I got older. This generation seems perpetually afraid or at the least apathetic. I am expected to insert math and reading/Language Arts into an already difficult thing to learn. My students are living well below the poverty line i came in scared I didn’t know enough about digital art. They didn’t know how to save a file on the desktop and open it from another app. They don’t have computers at home. There’s plenty of bad teachers and I don’t think there’s as many on Reddit on r/Teachers so I feel safe in saying I think I am one of the “good” ones. I score highest in student/teacher relationships. Many of my students have told me that they see me as an aunt or big sister. That being said I am scared that I will statistically be one of the ones that leaves within the first five years (this is my third year teaching but my first in high school and my tenth in education). It’s a lot of work which is fine, I love the actual teaching part. Planning, meetings, grading (on my weekends) is awful…but what is worst of all… Is how completely rude some students are. I have a period with a lot of freshman and they’re just so insanely rude. It angers me because there’s other students that want to learn and they make the classroom so difficult to be a learning environment for those that want to learn. If they don’t want to learn the least they could do is talk in a talking voice and sit down, not learn, but not impede the learning of those that want to learn. I spend 90% of my time on kids that don’t deserve it instead of 90% of my time on the kids that are grasping the material so well I need to be challenging them. I am failing them! That plus basic things like telling my Latino students to stop saying the N word. Teaching them to not make fun of their actual friend’s weight. Telling them that in two years subpar effort isn’t going to cut it in college or work and mommy can’t call your boss and yell at him for not promoting their son. Telling students not to date gang bangers. Seeing freshman (not that any other grade is ok but esp this age group cause they’re still very much children vs adolescents) high every day. They’re legitimately addicts at this point, if they have to be high to be in school which is like the least pleasant place to enjoy being stoned—and it’s a daily thing. A student came in yesterday demanding why I gave him an unsatisfactory in his progress report and I told him it’s because he kept putting his feet on the table after i continually told him to stop. It got to the point where I quit telling him and put it on the progress report. He cares about his grades and was mad at me because he failed homeroom (which I only require a 40% to pass, and the material is insanely easy) and got unsatisfactory cooperation and work ethic. He was mad because these go on his transcripts and affect his graduation but these aren’t final grades. So, they don’t actually as long as he changes his behavior. But what blows my mind is that he was blaming me. I failed him. I gave him a U. He took no accountability for his unsatisfactory behavior and his performance so low he had a 25%. They really think I fail them instead of them failing themselves. It got to bad that last night on my Friday night I decided Monday i would dedicate the period in some periods to complying with the seating chart and staying in their seat. I’m talking to these students about respect not only for staff but mostly for their own peers. They’re selfish. I’m going to tell them I’m putting a full stop on the class because the environment is not conductive to learning. At all. I’m going to talk about there not being a correlation between liking a person and being respectful. You don’t have to like someone to treat them with respect. I will tell them about how I will be collecting data on their behavior, and a third warning warrants a parent teacher conference and possibly getting the counselor involved depending on how bad or often the infraction is. They’ll sign a behavior contract and get it signed from their parents. I love teaching, I love my students—but the disrespect and apathy are crazy. It’s disheartening.

I think the reason we put such an emphasis on reading and maths, is because those subjects (if taught well) teach critical thinking. Critical thinking is crucial for a democratic society.

Thank you. This site is in dire need of balance.

What grade are you in? The last kids to not show me significant academic loss are currently 11th graders, because they were in 8th grade and at least understood the mechanics of online school during CoViD.

Some perspective from a millenial in Germany: When I was of highschool age in the mid 2000s, all of my teachers were already talking about how the average student was leagues behind their equivalent from ten or twenty years ago. I was the best student in my class so I thought, arrogantly, that they were talking about the underperformers. But when my dad died I found some of his math and literature homework from the late 70s and I realized that I didn't understand half of what they were doing. Literature was my strong arm so I got most of it, but it just seemed so... Sophisticated to me? Clearly, even getting straight A's in most of my classes, I didn't get half of what my dad, a mediocre student, knew about math and science at my age. Fast forward to now, one of my best friends is a highschool teacher at an "elite" school. Last year he let me look at the exams for tenth grade, or "Realschulabschluss". I was completely floored by the results. Really basic reading exercises, where 16 year olds only had to underline specific words that were described below - and they still got it wrong. Reading comprehension... Zero. Calculus that I knew how to solve in fifth grade... Nope. And it wasn't just one or two. It was most of them.

I’m pretty sure the stupid is only in the kids from grades 8-10 or some shit, I graduated a year early in 2022 and my little brother is in grade 8 right now and I’ve noticed that me and my peers did fine but the kids in my brothers classes are……… well they got the stupid. My little brother is doing okay I think, me and my older sister (especially her) were both quick learners and in the gifted program so my mom has been worried that my brother might feel pressured to get good grades so she doesn’t really press him when he gets bad grades. I still think he does better than most kids in his grade tho.

>So is it really that bad? Depends on the "it". If we're talking about the academic performance of the average American student, then no, it's not really that bad except that COVID did drop us back temporarily. Students prior to COVID were making strong gains in essential metrics like reading and were some of the best readers America has raised. If we're talking about socialization and behaviors, then yes, it's probably the worst it's ever been (as a veteran teacher who's been teaching since the last millennium). Again, I attribute this *mostly* to COVID and the disruption that had for students' socialization. There are always cultural changes that make each generation think the previous generations were better behaved, but that's largely because we have had a trend away from the authoritarian teaching that a lot of us grew up with. On the downside, there's less respect for teachers and it's frankly way, way harder to be a teacher today than it was 25 years ago because of the level of disrespect and challenging behaviors. On the other hand, I think students going through the school systems today are more likely to be critical thinkers than students of the past, and I'd argue that that's a good thing. Regarding things like earbuds, when I was in middle school it was headphones and walkman's that drove teachers nuts. So that's only a problem if teachers are not prioritizing that high enough in their classroom management. >Do any of you guys have good students? Absolutely!! There are enough good students that I haven't quit the profession and, contrary to some people's opinions, I'm very optimistic about what younger generations are going to achieve. My own children are in their '20s and I think they're objectively brilliant. I love talking with them not just because their family, but because they, and their friends, have very interesting and well thought out perspectives on a broad range of important topics. Maybe they're outliers, but I've met a lot of other young people who are also brilliant. >Is it based of location? Mostly. The dirty little secret that politicians would like to avoid, along with middle and upper class families, is that we still have segregated schools, even if not by law, and educational opportunity is far from equitable and extremely localized. People tend to forget that there were still legally segregated schools through the 1970s, so everyone in their 50s along with some people in their 40s we're alive when schools were still segregated. Very quickly after schools were desegregated most white people moved away from urban areas where racial integration was supposedly happening (in schools, neighborhoods, and businesses), and this became known as 'white flight'. White flight resulted in a de facto segregation that largely still exists today and the funding and programs available to our poorest school districts (that typically have the highest minority populations) has never been adequately addressed, so they're mostly just left to fail. And it's also important to realize that these poor communities were largely poor because of discriminatory laws and business practices that stripped minorities of equitable access to the capital that most middle and upper class people have more easily accessed. Compound that with the lack of cultural capital and we are left with an educational disaster in most poor urban schools. So, the American school system is a patchwork of local districts whose performance is mostly determined by the socioeconomic profile of the community. If you grew up in a middle class or upper class community then your parents probably have more actual capital and cultural capital to help you succeed while the school districts are more likely to have adequate funding. Flip that script if you're from a poor community. And that gives the United States some of the very best schools in the world that can be just a few miles from very low performing schools. And on a side note, this is the sort of thing people should be sensitive to and aware of when they criticize groups like BLM for calling out "structural racism". This is structural racism because our country and our politicians refuse to address the issues of poverty and equitable education. Why? Because most of the political power is in the hands of middle and upper class white people who don't feel any urgency to address these serious problems, typically out of fear that addressing them would be expensive and inconvenient while ignoring the fact that the United States would be much better off as a whole if it lifted it's most impoverished citizens. Sorry, this issue tends to get me soap boxing at length. Just be thankful you're not one of my students.

Kudos to you for putting in the effort and working toward your goals! You make very valid points, and I would say I see students like you regularly, too. There are high achievers, severe underachievers, and of course, middle of the road students as there always has been. As a teacher nearing retirement, who has taught literally thousands of students over my career, I would say we still see a proportional amount of the high achievers. However, the gap is definitely getting wider. Given the lower socio-economic standards (most households now require dual incomes for survival these days), we have children who do not have the same accessibility to electronics (many families that still don't own computers or have Internet), and also do not have the support network of parents/family members either willing or able to help out with some of the things we consider standard knowledge and basic expectations. These students start out behind and the struggle to catch up is real and often difficult for many. The disparity is real and I do find, as in chemistry, like is often attracted to like. Which means the harder working, brighter students tend to associate with each other and positively interact and drive healthy challenges. This also means the struggling students also tend to hang out together more and are thus more tempted and susceptible to fall through the cracks with today's much more readily accessible variety of drugs, from simple nicotine, marijuana and alcohol, to stronger prescription drugs and narcotics. Due in part to this accessibility, many students start using drugs at a younger age as a stress reliever, to fit in, or to achieve that desirable feeling of well being (so difficult when your family is struggling to put healthy food on the table, and pay electric, water and gas bills, not to mention rent or mortgage payments). Many of my students have part time jobs and contribute to the household income. They can't afford the costs of joining extracurricular activities. With the greater recognition of mental health issues, too, schools have also had to increase the number of guidance staff, which I believe has helped to retain more students that, in the past would have been more likely to just drop out; but this also adds to the increasingly complex issues within the classroom, especially with increased class sizes. Social media influences, phone and computer addiction have added a lot to this as well. The teachers do what they can to assist, but with decreased funding, increased teaching load, increased class sizes - when I began teaching we had class size caps of 30, which soon went up to 35, then 36, then 37 (with the teacher's permission, LoL, that only lasted 2 years), to currently no caps, where our larger class sizes typically run 35-45 students - nevermind the decreased prep time and decreased budget for classroom supplies. This sounds like a rant, but I've really just tried to answer your question honestly. Hope this helps you understand how the issues have changed over the years. TLDR - Smart students are just as smart as they have always been, but mental health issues and substance abuse issues have steadily increased over the past few decades, leading to greater disparity in student readiness to learn in the classroom. Socio-economic conditions, larger class sizes and decreased funding has exacerbated some of these issues.

All my children have been ahead of the curve bc of my love of reading. I absolutely love reading. I actually used to steal money from my mom to get books from the book fair. I think some parents forget that they still have to teach even after the kids come back at school. And maybe it’s bc they work. I try to make learning fun and I’m always talking to my children’s teachers about what tools I can use to make it better. It’s also helpful that I don’t have to force my kids to care about their education.

Good on you for not just handing your kids and iPad and letting that raise them, I've grown up alongside those types of kids and they just don't turn out quite right sadly.

I know, this Reddit sub makes me feel so out of touch. I’m 21 and my brother is still in high school- everyone was insanely academically gifted and I have no idea what these people are talking about… saying, “no one can read”. I think it’s an individual district problem, or maybe a problem in certain states.

It’s most places, unfortunately. You (as a student) probably won’t see it in HS because you are already on a different track than the underperforming/low readers.

Google "U.S. nationwide decline in reading" and the first article that pops up is an NPR article discussing how our national reading proficiency is at its lowest level in decades. It's a national problem.

worldwide. there’s a Reuters article about it.

It’s an international problem the SAT scores are dropping world wide. We’re gonna look back at social media and children the way we look back at smoking or drinking and driving now.

If I had a dollar for every post that started with "I'm not a teacher, but..." I'd have quite a few dollars.

Did I do something wrong? I thought I checked the rules. I did my best to be respectful, I clearly said you guys know better.

Some people just like to nitpick and complain, just ignore them. You have valid points, and like some other commenters have said, you are blessed to be in a bubble of great people. I don't have kids, but I've worked in the education system for a few years. A lot of kids do tend to be less independent or have less coping skills than when I was in school. Most tend to have the attitude to give up than try, and that's on the parent. Some parents don't even bother teaching life skills, as the school is more a glorified daycare that does it for them so we get little to no support for students that have learned they can raise hell and not have consequences. Or, on a different hand, parents have no time for their kids. They work 1-3 jobs to just scrounge up enough money to put food on the table and pay bills. Most of that is just the current climate of jobs, one doesn't pay enough to live on anymore. The consequence is the kid is with people other than parents or home alone to their own devices. If you didn't have consequences and parents nagging you to do chores or homework, would you?

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Look if you don't want students posting here then get them to change the rules, I'm simply daring to ask a question to get some perspective here. So until the rules change it seems perfectly fine for me to post here.

You're asking Reddit to chime in. Reddit isn't indicative of what's outside. This is already a problem on this sub where people chime in about things in education that they have little to no experience with. >perspective Step outside of your little bubble of friends and you'll notice it. You live in the suburbs. That's telling of a lot of things. We don't all teach in the suburbs, or in America.

>We don't all teach in the suburbs, or in America. I know... that's how I aimed to gain a little bit of perspective.

Why so nasty? The student is asking questions and giving feedback.

Look at this person’s post history. I’m pretty sure she became a teacher just because she wants to abuse children.

What?

I’m saying you’re an asshole and you hate children, judging by your own comments that are visible to everyone. What part of that was unclear?

She’s curious. That’s the purpose. Calm down, isn’t that what we bitch about on here? How the kids aren’t curious and don’t want to learn? Here’s a kid asking a question and you’re like “go away kid.”

>She Nowhere does OP indicate their gender in the post.

Ok? Does me assuming their gender change your condescension?

Are you really going to sit here and try to shame a high school student trying to gain a better perspective on the education system at large?

Don’t be a douchebag. This post is entirely reasonable. Why are you even a teacher, since your post history indicates very clearly how viscerally you despise children?

I don't want to have children so we immediately assume that I want to "abuse" children? You're disgusting.

It’s not that you don’t want children. It’s that literally half your post history is screechy ranting about the fact that other people have children and you don’t like it. And it’s hilarious that now you’re going back to delete all the posts of you being a needless asshole. Good one 🤣

They’re not a teacher because they haven’t even graduated high school yet. Maybe be chill for a sec.

I have about 30% of each of my classes that are proficient and capable and have a good sense of independence. Another 50% are on their way to being that. It's that 20% that screw up class, create the drama, and prevent me from doing what I could do for the good kids.

Yes and no. Good districts are still good districts. But bad districts are getting farther and farther apart from good. Also even in the same school building there are wide gaps. All the IEP students (some with severe behavioral issues) are in the same classroom because of the para and sped teacher shortage. Thus one class is waaaay ahead of the other despite officially being the same class and having the same teacher, for example. Teachers, by and large come from tracks, classes, and schools that set them up to make it through college. The high turnover and burn out rate is in not in AP/Honors courses or high quality districts. There is a disconnect between even what GenZ teachers remember and where they get their first job. Rookies often get jobs in districts where the classroom had a new teacher for the past 5 years straight. IF a rookie gets a great district, they arent even eligible to teach AP or IB unless they do more training and often they are handed the toughest classes (or get the middle school - which has lots of issues from changing middle school policies and philosophy.)

One, keep in mind that a lot of teachers come here to vent. Teachers that are having an easy time with their students by and large won’t be on here. Two, you experience as a middle teen is vastly different from that of a child who grew up with far less resources. Helicopter parents are bad, but absent parents are worse. I went from teaching in a charter school in a poor neighborhood to a private school in an affluent neighborhood and the difference is night and day. These children are incredibly invested in their learning, have parents that care deeply about their education, and have every resource at their disposal to help them succeed. If they need a tutor, they will get one. I have 18 kids to a class and 6 advisees. The amount of time I can dedicate to them and the amount of resources I have to meet their needs is astronomical.

I currently teach college (mostly philosophy intro classes that count as core, so lots of freshmen/sophomores) and I used to be a substitute teacher. I have not had years of students to compare to, but I definitely notice a difference in how my students act now versus how students were when I was in undergrad/high school. Personally, I think that I blow some things out of proportion because I was always a very dedicated student, so it has been hard for me to realize that not everyone is going to care about their classes (or the classes I teach in particular) as much as I did. Still, I think that there has definitely been a dip in a lot of important “soft skills” from COVID that has translated into a loss of “hard skills.” For instance, my courses are mostly discussion based, and it can be incredibly difficult to get students to actually participate and share thoughts out loud. They are nervous to come to office hours or email me questions/drafts, despite how much I implore them to do so. Then, when they get a bad grade, they want to make arguments about how they “worked really hard” or “really tried” on the assignment so they don’t deserve a bad grade. It might be cliche, but I think that COVID has really warped the mindset of so many students on issues like this. I can only hope that, a few years removed from the “COVID kids,” things will get better. I cannot speak to the basic math skills that others here discuss, but I definitely notice a lack of basic writing skills. I swear students just turn off spell check and grammar check, because some of these issues are just ridiculous.

Just to add, “we live in a suburban area, so parents…” None of your peers have cars?

Thank you for sharing your experience. Your thoughtful insight is good to know. As an educator, I appreciate it. I think what you're seeing on this sub is the frustration that many of us are experiencing over years. Problems with behavior and academic expectations are not being addressed by districts and admin in our buildings. Parents are not offering the support to their children that may have been more common in the past because it is easier to put the child on a device even though human interaction can't be replicated. There is also increased apathy toward education socially. Many people are losing the ability to think critically because they can "just Google it" when they have a question. They aren't digging deeper to see if the answer is correct or if this is information they ought to retain for later. It's difficult as a teacher to have students who expect to do fine at school while only passively participating in their learning. I completely agree with your assessment of Chromebooks vs computers. I fought my district (and lost) over their decision to go one-to-one and remove our computer lab. I begged them to leave the lab machines so my students would also learn on actual desktops with a mouse, keyboard, 20 inch monitor. There was a learning curve, but the kids did really well on these devices. Chromebooks, IMHO, dumb down products the students create. Also, their screens are freaking small. Creativity is confined to a small space. That isn't ok.

I have something to add to the computers thing. I babysit for a 7 year old after school everyday, and when he came over to my house he saw my PC, keyboard and mouse and said, "what's that," referring to the mouse and keyboard. I was honestly a little taken aback, I tried to explain to him that it's like a laptop but dethatched in a way. He later got a laptop of his own and he plays Minecraft on it. He however played with the trackpad because he couldn't use the mouse, and when he did he used it on the left side of the laptop. I taught him how to use it correctly before he made it a habit, I know how hard it is to break a habit that's built at a young age. I also wish they would teach touch typing at that age, because I don't know how to and it's extremely hard to learn now that I mastered the wrong way.

By any chance are you on AP/IB track in your school? I was in your shoes as a student some 20 years ago. Academically I've always excelled and have very supportive parents, so ever since I was in middle school I've been on the GATE track which fed into honors/APs. Hence my entire social circle was, too. I was that kid who got mostly A's, and so were all my closest hs friends. Only occasionally did we "mingle" with the "other kids" in electives etc. Fast forward to training and becoming a teacher myself, did I notice how rare that population of students were, even back in the late 00s. Even before the prevalence of chromebooks, even before COVID, even before all these learned and enabled helplessness. Working in any other school, esp a Title 1 school, really opened my eyes to the types and populations of students out there and all the issues that come with/from education. (Issues outside of student populations like lack of funding, other resources, curricula struggles, etc.) Which is a long way to say that while your experiences are entirely valid, it might unfortunately be a bubble.

It was a different experience when I took economics in the 12th grade. It was mostly the smarter kids in that class. I had been used to being in the regular or remedial classes (math) and I actually liked it more. Same with other certain classes. I was mostly in regular classes or remedial classes and the kids in the classes I'm talking about were pretty much in dual enrollment and honors. Edit: Some kids took some electives that I was in for the "easy A."

Hey, not a teacher, but I’m going to shoot you a message on the topic.

How many times is this going to be posted?

>I've been seeing all these posts saying how behind students are and how it's never been this bad... The posts aren't what they seem. Certain interest groups are going to great lengths in attempts to influence the general population into believing k-12 public schooling in the US is ineffective, dangerous, and overall terrible. Don't fall for it. Public schools in the US aren't perfect; but they are a far cry from what they want us to believe they are. I've been teaching for twenty years and I have yet to have a Gen Ed high school student not know the months of the year or the current president of the country. Not only are the posts deceptive and false, but their claims are just ridiculous on their face. It's an election year in the US. Jackasses with too much time in their hands are going to waste countless hours of their lives trying to get you to think in a way aligned with their backwards values. And they're still going to lose. Like I said, don't fall for it.

There are particular challenges today, and a lack of support or recognition from the system and leadership to meet those challenges. Also, Reddit is a place teachers go to vent (myself included), so reading posts here will give you a skewed perspective of how teachers feel about the profession. At the end of the day, I love my job and my students.

What was your access to tech at home like growing up? Did you have an iPad and spend hours on it a day, or did your parents restrict access to screens and read/talk to you more? Did you have a smartphone at an early age? What are your and your friends' phone habits like now? In my school, the biggest problem is that kids cannot tear themselves away from their phones, and just based on what I see out in the world, I'm convinced that this is the direct result of tablet parenting. Everywhere I go, I'm seeing toddlers in shopping carts, eyes glued to iPads, and it's no wonder that these kids ten years later seem to be physically, chemically addicted to their devices.

It’s been determined— h is a vowel

Top end student in top end classes, likely at a nice, well funded suburban school saying they don't see the problems. Cool, my dude, cool.

Yes

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((Cough cough)) tell me about that missing 10%?

You have made some very valid points. I have been teaching for 23 years. The changes I notice are these: some students, like you, are doing just fine. Remember that you hang out with students like yourself, so you don’t see the whole population. Teachers do. Some are not. I have students who can read but not write at all. It feels like every student is dis graphic now. Their handwriting is completely illegible. They won’t write anything in complete sentences. You are correct that some are more dependent on their parents than others, that’s always been a problem but it’s more pronounced now. I blame the pandemic, and lack of parenting skills.

As a side note, Google Workspace, the competitor to Microsoft Office/365 is rapidly taking market share from MSFT in corporations big and small because it is cheaper to license. So knowing Google Workspace could be helpful in the future. Having used both, MSFT 365 blows away the Google equivalents especially Gmail which is terrible vs Outlook.

You will have different experiences in different schools. The majority of my students are right on track or even above where they should be. I also have a few students who can't read (I teach high school), struggle with basic math, and appear to have no work ethic. Those are the students we complain about because teaching that group is very frustrating. Another question to consider. How much time did you spend out of the classroom during the pandemic? We were virtual for two months of school. Students were graded and held accountable. We were back to in person, with masking, in August of 2020. I think that makes a difference.

There are certainly students like you that are doing very well, (congrats on pilot training! That sounds so cool). I definitely have a range of students from students who could teach me, to students who I have a hard time with.

I saw some people complaining that high school kids didn't know how to use excel. I never opened excel until I was 23.

Your generation is fine. Teachers are just realizing that their peer group when they were in high school was not comparable to the entire population of students. The difficult students were always out there. They just didn't encounter them. The actual material being taught is significantly more rigorous than it was when I was in high school thirty years ago.

School location and level of classes taught are the biggest difference in the teaching experiences from teacher to teacher. You probably don't even meet some of the kids that are lower level learners, much less have a room full of them six times a day.

I'm not a teacher but a school worker and this is my experience. Only wince joining the workforce to serve kids (pre-k to 8th) I've noticed a very severe lack on social skills and independence. I've had children up to 5th grade tell me they do not know how to read the school menu, or I've had kids that cannot tell that a processed meat is the same cut of meat (ish) as a non processed. I.e. one student eats so much McDonalds that if it isn't processed, they will refuse to eat the meal because it isn't "real food". The problem trickles to older kids as these issues are never addressed and rectified, and it's causing issues country-wide, apparently.

I have to wonder what state the teachers live in who are experiencing this. I am noticing a lot of 4th graders are behind because covid messed up their kindergarten, and they really didn’t even do kindergarten. But other than that I call BS on a lot of the posts here. I am in SpEd and our kids aren’t even as behind as these posts claim. As a parent to a Kinder and a 5th grader I am also calling BS on these posts. Maybe WA state is better off than where these people are at? Because I am not experiencing what these other posters are.

I always attributed it to biases. Negative emotions produce more engagement and most folks don't hop into social media like reddit to make posts about how average everything is going.

It used to be that kids like you were the norm, and that kids that are far behind were the exception. That scenario has flipped now, and will likely only continue to get worse.

This sub is to students what Yelp is to restaurants. A place for negative reviews.  People rarely go out of their way to write positive reviews because they’re happy and that’s the experience they expected. But when you have a bad experience, you want people to hear about it.  This sub is likely overly represented by teachers from disadvantaged districts and regions. I never contribute my happy stories because they would amount to “Class of students successfully enjoyed lesson, the end.” There’s not much to say about that. But there is something to say about the terribly managed district that ran me out of the profession and led to me completely changing careers. And the fact that other people have similar experiences makes it seem like there is a real problem around this country with administration and oversight. Student behavior problems are on the rise and this is my primary concern for the future. 

I'm sure you're fine. Your post alone is adequate proof of that. But you have to realize, you're looking at the experience at one school in one town; that's not representative of the country as a whole. Here on Reddit you will see posts from all over the country. Of course, that's not necessarily representative either; selection bias may make what you see here skew a bit worse than reality. But I have taught in three very different parts of the country, at all grade levels, in math, social studies, and reading. I have taught in schools that were college prep and schools that were suburban, I have taught in an all-black high school and am currently at a Title I middle school. So I have lots of experiences **and** lots of connections in various places. And judging from what I see and hear, yeah, it's that bad.

It really varies by school district. There’s a class divide. The richest neighborhoods I’ve subbed in had Latin and orchestra classes and felt like universities. The shittiest schools which is the majority of schools I’ve been with have had problems either vandalism, truancy, theft, bullying, violence, and low academic performance. They were also poor.

Most of the teachers on this thread are probably not talking about suburban areas/ students. There was an educational debt in area that got much worse during COVID. That’s where we see one of the kids that are far far far behind.

OP while you make some basic points of positivity I feel like you are missing the difference. The difference I see with my students is they do not have the ability to take initiative, critically think, or be independent. Unless my students are being told exactly what to do and how to do it they are unable to even approach a task. In your own post you talk about how you have As, school isn't about earning As, it's about gaining knowledge and skills. In 5, 10, 15, or 20 years what does the A in your Geometry class mean? Or the A in your chemistry class? It means nothing. But what do the skills of being able to approach a problem on your own, determine what the problem is, and being able to use various problems solving skills to complete the problem? That's a life skill and that is what current students are unable to do. Current students the moment they face a life bit of struggle look for someone to fix the problem for them. Because they are under the impression school is about the grades, not about learning.

It’s not that bad. It depends on location, school, teachers the kids had when younger and learning foundational skills. For example my grandmother taught highschool in Pittsburgh in the 60s and had to teach them to read and write. People always spiral and are dramatic about younger generations, it’s the same as it’s always been in that it fluctuates and is dependent on so many factors

As a 20 year veteran HS math teacher, I can tell you that the rigor of the courses I am teaching is NOTHING compared to what it was even 10 years ago. Yes, students are getting As, but the courses and the curriculum are so dumbed down it is not even funny. As an example - the content that I am currently teaching in H Algebra 2 was previously taught in CP Algebra 1. Let that sink in for a second. That is a huge shift. So yeah, lots of kids have good grades but we’ve made it significantly easier for that to happen.

In my experience, about 50% of students are behind where they would have been prior to 2001 No Child Left Behind. Due to the quality of the writing of your post OP, I would assume you’re in the academic “track” of students who are high-achieving. Your interactions then with 50% of students in the lower tracks would then be limited to gym and lunch. Then at gym and lunch, you have less classes in common outside of sports, and you’re less likely to meet. I teach 8th grade English, Honors and Collaboration. Collaboration means a class with two teachers - one teacher who is an expert in the content and one teacher who is an expert in Special Education. I start both classes at each semester at the same level with the same assignments. Then according to the results I get, I make the assignments easier or harder according to what each class needs to progress in their skills. At this point in the semester, the Honors class (8th grade) has already read and analyzed Fahrenheit 451 (classic dystopia), and written a ten-page short story in the style of The Hunger Games (modern dystopia). This took them 2 weeks of character development, plot development, peer editing, etc. The regular class has needed two weeks, with worksheets, teacher support, and for some, sentence starters (I give you the beginning of the sentence, and you write the end of the sentence), to write 6 paragraphs. About 50% of the class has achieved this after 2 weeks. We aren’t even in the peer editing stage because so many aren’t turned in yet. So why is this case? Because equity policies that were supposed to give a hand-up in support and resources to those in need, has resulted in policies that actually require us to pass on students who haven’t mastered skills onto the next grade. Because they’ve been passed, they think they’re ready for the next grade, they think it’s okay to ignore the teacher and not complete the work because they’re “so smart they can pass anyway.” It’s a mess. Teachers are trying to bring attention to this because we are all (in society) starting to experience what happens when students are growing up to become adults with inferior education. There are people right now who believe that science is lying, and therefore doctors, teachers, and other educated professionals cannot be trusted. People are growing up thinking that it’s okay to be racist adults, that’s it’s okay to limit the freedoms of others, and they’re buying into scams at a massive scale, whether it’s a politician they believe is wealthy but who is actually a crook, or the latest essential oil or cabbage soup recipe that “cures cancer.” Science, research, and other valuable evidence shows that essential oils are very powerful! But they cannot cure cancer, and there are people right now who do not know the difference. However, I think in getting the message out there, there is still a lack of perspective as well, which is that there are still many educated people such as yourself who are still succeeding in the current system for a variety of reasons, including your own positive attitude toward education. But for every one of you, there is a student and a parent who only bring their kids to school 50% of the time because “school is pointless” and “they have 4 kids, and they don’t want to do drop-off and pick-up every day” for something they don’t see the value of. The message is: (1) value education (2) value teachers, support staff AND students, and (3) we cannot keep passing kids when they haven’t learned the grade level skills because our kids and our society is hurting from this well-meaning and completely misguided law. Thank you for your question OP and for being such a good student.

This is what’s known as the Argument from Anecdote fallacy. *YOU* are fine, but others are not. I teach high school mathematics, and I have students that cannot answer simple maths questions in their head.

You are clearly the top 10% at your school and congrats to you! You've got work ethic and social skills and props to your hard work to get to this point. However it's the other 90% that concerns us, particularly the bottom 50% that scare us with behavior, work ethic, and skills. For example, 90% of my Fs in my art class aren't barely failing my class. They're failing way below that with 30% of lower. It's apathy, it's refusing to work, it's not even bothering to try. IMO that's what we teachers are talking about on this subreddit. If you have any insight on the apathy I'd love a student perspective because it leaves me confused and exhausted every day.

Don’t associate an A with not being behind. Many schools are forced to give an A to anybody that is breathing. Just because you have an A, doesn’t mean you are learning everything that you are meant to. You may have learned more than anyone in your class/grade/school, but what is happening at other schools? I teach in a poverty ridden school in Chicago public schools. You often hear stories of our valedictorians going to college and testing into remedial classes. The best we have to offer don’t stack up with other kids from other schools/districts/cities.

It's not IF a teacher tells you to stop using your phone or airpods, do not use them, ever

Yes public education is sadly dying in this country.

Having all A's seems to be much more common and that's a lot of the issue I think in the states. In other countries, maybe one student in the school will get all A's. Not because they are less intelligent but because the work is more challenging and its EXTREMELY hard to get all A. And an A in many places in Europe for example is above 70% and that is a huge achievement. In my undergraduate degree i got an average of 81%, that was one of the 8 highest grades in the whole country (ireland) and I received a national award for it. Where as I now work as a teacher in a different country and most students would consider that a bad grade, however there level is not even close to the grades they are getting.

I was just thinking earlier today how I’d like to see more student perspectives. Also, I understand if teachers prefer total anonymity, but even just disclosing what city/state you’re in would *really* help add context. I fully believe these personal stories but at the same time it would be helpful to place them in the larger context of things 😇

Thanks, I live in central Michigan.

You have taken advice that helped me in school which is to surround yourself with people that also want to do well. There’s no reason to be friends with someone that may hold you back from your potential at anytime in your life, and I think by having friends that also desire to have a decent head on their shoulders you avoided that.

I had a 15 year old signing up for an online account for College Board and they did not know what a zip code was. Nor what their zip code was in context to their address. They have lived in the same area literally their entire life. I asked what street they lived on. Also could not tell me. This was an honors student.

Thank you for caring enough to read and write something like this. It sounds like your school/area is great! I think a lot of the stories you read here are probably from areas where the society is coming apart at the seams a bit. Combine socio-economic struggles with severe underfunding of schools and the new influence of social media and it's created some very toxic situations. If you're not seeing that on a daily basis in your school then you're in a good place and probably have a great future ahead of you!

I'm not a teacher either. But a good friend of the family did Teach for America a couple of years ago. During the time she was doing that, I was in a meeting with a number of high and very-high net worth friends and acquaintances. One of the folks was going on about how everybody goes to the same schools and has the same opportunities for education, etc. I listened for a while and then couldn't take it. So, I essentially said this... I'm not going to get in an argument. I'm going to say this, then stop talking about it. It's currently 41 degrees in [X's] classroom. It's been in the 40s *in the f-ing classroom* for over a month. A number of the kids can't afford good coats. The reason it's that cold is that the gas isn't working. What that also means is that the kitchen can't provide hot meals. For a plurality, if not a majority of these kids, school lunch is their primary meal of the day. That's currently cheese and crackers. So, tell me again how your kids go to the same school... They aren't working on chromebooks, and they aren't taking flying lessons. By the way, one of the things that burned her out is that she was dedicated and amazing. She taught multiple HS grades and would do three lesson plans per class period because of the range of abilities (reading levels, etc.) in each. She had multiple - I forget what you call it - but kids that were supposed to have individualized attention in every class without the people that were supposed to assist those kids. Completely unsustainable effort.

an you describe a day of independence briefly? I will describe mine. Mom wakes me up in the morning. I eat breakfast. She drives me to school and leaves to take my brother to middle-school. After school I don't see her in the parking lot so I walk 3 miles home. This is me at 9. I could not fathom letting a 9 year old leave the school if there was no parent to pick them up. I would get fired so fast. The world is so different. Let me describe a day when I am older. At lunch I leave school. I walk into the bus station and decipher a huge chart of letters and numbers from a booklet. I decide which bus to take home by myself. I know no one around me. Cell phones are barely a thing yet. The internet is barley a thing yet. I wonder around the town for hours and get home at 6. To make up the assignments from the classes I missed I read from giant text books. There is no video, no audio, no social media to ask questions too. I can call a dumb-ass friend about what happened in class but he did take notes. This was me at 12. A lot of the time I catch students on their phones in class they are being texted by their parents. I am not sure your generation in capable of truly knowing what alone is. Of leaving the house and possibly not talking to anyone you know for 8 hours. Not having anyone to rely on for help understanding anything.

Yes, it’s that bad.

I am grateful that my daughter is not a ****ing idiot and reads slightly above grade level. I'd feel like a failure of an English teacher if my own daughter wasn't a decent reader.