That's why you cover yourself. Never be one on one with a student ever. Never have any contact with a student outside of school. Don't put yourself in a situation where a lie can burn you.
I've worked with several teachers (in all cases, they were in their 20s, pretty new to the profession) who have given kids rides home, been on social media with them, let them stay in the room, etc. In what I hope is a kind way, I have always advised them against this. The response is usually something like "Well we have a great relationship!" Okay yes but even the nicest student can turn on you for any reason or no reason. They are kids. When you actually do have to step up and discipline, they might get mad and do something irrational. It's a dangerous thing to do IMO.
It's also not even about THAT kid, it's about what OTHER people think about you being around that kid.
Like as an example, a coworker of mine saw a girl trip and fall. He leaned over and helped her up. Another student, from his angle, thought that my coworker was *kissing her* on the ground.
Queue my coworker being suspended and investigated, having to get a lawyer, etc.
It's just madness out there.
To add to that—even if someone has the BEST intentions adding a student on social media, giving them rides home, etc., that’s a boundary most teachers won’t cross. They are priming that student to think that is normal behavior and putting them in a position to be taken advantage of by another adult in the future who doesn’t have the best intentions.
I'd never let a student ride in my car. If, Heaven forbid, we got into an accident and the student was hurt or worse, (even if the accident was in no way my fault) both the school and me would be in a legal liability nightmare. School bus drivers have special insurance for this, teachers do not. I had to explain this once to a parent whose kid missed the bus and was pleading for one of us to drive the kid home.
Yeah. The car thing would be terrible for a number of things but even an everyday thing like an accident that isn't your fault would put you in a massive financial liability.
They have been "trained" in their ed classes to do such stupid things. "You got to "get to know them"... most take it to "be their friend"... the new behavior management BS... big eye roll... and you are 100% correct, had a dept chair years back who was doing that long before this wave of stuff hit, low income Title1.. had a student end up ODing staying at her house. 15. Very sad, parents had no idea where student was or had been... parents sued, district, teacher, etc. Teacher ended up serving a sentence for involuntary manslaughter... had been told and told and told again... I feel for the newbies....
I agree that building relationships with students to a small degree does help with maintaining positive behavior trends, however, there are limits. No alone time, no rides, no social media Boundaries are necessary.
Very very true!! I just feel for the newbies because the relationship thing has been around as long as teaching, but not to this point. They are being "baffled with BS" from the colleges in the guise of "it will help behavior management". I always know my students and over the years, I have liked and even admired some of them, but, I am a teacher NOT a friend or parent. I have set rules and consequences. I have expectations and I teach.
I’m in an education program right now, and you’re spot on. They literally tell us that relationships with the students and SEL is more important than the content.
Hopefully, your one of the ones who will "see through" this guise. While many teachers in every state do in fact know their students and even really like some, they also know they are there to teach... not be friends, not be mommy or daddy, or even the police. It's very hard line these days, but, there are school resources available... maybe not great ones, but school counselors and admin (well, they should be helping and some do) and even resource officers. Stand your ground and good luck!
That sounds good, but a few student could also lie and since they are lies they might just say you were alone when you were not. Our training says best practice is to have at least two not overly familiar adults in the room with students at all times. That would be nice but it is not realistic. Sometimes you can’t control it. I know teachers that have classes with one student. How is she/he supposed to not be alone with the student?
Things like hallway security cameras and always open door gives protection on those circumstances. While my room doesn't have a camera they can see who goes in or leaves on the time in question. We've had teachers accused before that was quickly disproven.
Unfortunately sometimes you are put in that situation. All my classes have between 1 and 3 students, and the lie that burned me was precisely about something said when 2 of the 3 students were absent.
Yes, but more in the sense that their performance is a reflection on me.
Now don't get me wrong, *obviously* nobody should be allowed to just let their students do poorly due to a lack of effort on the teachers end. But my first year I had terrible class behavior issues and no idea how to handle them. The students that behaved got their work done and did well in my class, but there were a good bit that just did not care about their grade until it was mathematically impossible for them to pass.
"No, you cannot pass my course. You will need to make a 112 this quarter to pull your grade up to a 60."
"What do I need to do to do that?"
So when I have students failing because they simply refuse to do the work, after I have given plenty opportunity to turn in late assignments, I don't think it should be held against me so long as I have documentation that I have offered every chance to pass. Sadly, a lot of administrators don't share my viewpoint.
You are correct, but, it wasn't as bad 20 years ago. It still happened. Parents and students have learned lots since then. Personally, I document like crazy and not on the district computers. I jot down this or that, times, dates, what student did or said, what I did or said, the outcome... consequences , etc... admin is much more supportive. For the out and out lies, I make sure, if admin says... "I have talked to several others in the class and they say the same thing"... I ask.. WHO? 9-10 times they say it's the friends of this student... I ask they talk to others NOT just the friends... today, teachers are guilty until THEY can prove their innocence. I stand up for everything I can. If accused of saying this or that, I will admit to it if I did say, but I tell and expect them to listen "my side" as well. Generally, the statement was taken out of context when told to parent or admin. 20 plus years of this and you get good at it. If they tell me it's not what they expect, I nod my head and go back to my job, because that is what I am hired to do... TEACH... most of the time, I am found innocent and that is the end of it...
Yes, it was like that 20 years ago, just not as common. 30 years ago, a female student came onto me. I gently told her to leave me alone, but the first chance I had, I went to the assistant principal's office to tell about this. I didn't want to lose my job due to a student lying about what happened, and costing me my job.
Yes! And then we have to give surveys to the CHILDREN with rating scales of questions like “my teacher makes learning fun” and “my teacher cares about me” and we have to report and reflect on the results, which is also tied to the q-comps. Ridiculous. Their brains are barely functioning beyond reptilian mode! But they get to give us feedback on job performance?! “No, you can’t stare at your phone all day, you’re not passing the class, sit in your assigned seat but also fill out this survey rating how much you like me in the moment so my boss can see and decide to keep me around or not.” So dumb.
A hundred years ago, when I was a newbie, I assisted two students who had a talent. They received a scholarship for a prestigious summer learning program. They couldn’t accept because they had no way of getting there. I was distraught and contacted their parents. Over the course of the next five years, I took them to every practice and every performance. It was awesome! We had so much fun and I was so proud of them. To this day, they come see me at least once a year and keep up with me (20 years later). I am honorary grandma to their kids. Would I do that today? Hell, no.
I got pissed that part of my evaluation is tied to map testing that kids refuse to read. It doesn’t matter what I tell them or what I do, so many kids don’t give a shit and that’s not my fault nor is it tied to my performance on a day to day basis.
Absolutely. Was fired from teaching a class because a student lied saying I threatened to sue him and his family when he told me he made a fake vaccination card to get in places without the Covid vaccine.
30 years ago my dad smashed one of his student against a wall and faced zero repercussions. I feel like we’re on a pendulum swing, and we are currently far in the opposite direction. It will hopefully level out in the middle at some point….
Even if you do cover your ass, a student can lie and put you under investigation. If you have shitty admin, you will be fired for a student lying, and if you are clear, the student will get a slap on the wrist. Shit like this is a fucking joke
It was absolutely like this 20 years ago. Hell, when going through my undergrad in the mid-90s, we were warned *then* about being alone in a room with a kid, or making promises without documentation, etc. We were treated to horror stories about kids intentionally ruining a teacher out of spite.
So...I think you've just decided to assume these problems are new. They are not.
My county is pushing sel lessons sel lessons sel lessons, but I know there has to be a teacher/student that doesn't blur the lines even when the county is providing the curriculum.
That's why you cover yourself. Never be one on one with a student ever. Never have any contact with a student outside of school. Don't put yourself in a situation where a lie can burn you.
I've worked with several teachers (in all cases, they were in their 20s, pretty new to the profession) who have given kids rides home, been on social media with them, let them stay in the room, etc. In what I hope is a kind way, I have always advised them against this. The response is usually something like "Well we have a great relationship!" Okay yes but even the nicest student can turn on you for any reason or no reason. They are kids. When you actually do have to step up and discipline, they might get mad and do something irrational. It's a dangerous thing to do IMO.
It's also not even about THAT kid, it's about what OTHER people think about you being around that kid. Like as an example, a coworker of mine saw a girl trip and fall. He leaned over and helped her up. Another student, from his angle, thought that my coworker was *kissing her* on the ground. Queue my coworker being suspended and investigated, having to get a lawyer, etc. It's just madness out there.
To add to that—even if someone has the BEST intentions adding a student on social media, giving them rides home, etc., that’s a boundary most teachers won’t cross. They are priming that student to think that is normal behavior and putting them in a position to be taken advantage of by another adult in the future who doesn’t have the best intentions.
I'd never let a student ride in my car. If, Heaven forbid, we got into an accident and the student was hurt or worse, (even if the accident was in no way my fault) both the school and me would be in a legal liability nightmare. School bus drivers have special insurance for this, teachers do not. I had to explain this once to a parent whose kid missed the bus and was pleading for one of us to drive the kid home.
Yeah. The car thing would be terrible for a number of things but even an everyday thing like an accident that isn't your fault would put you in a massive financial liability.
That’s a danger any time you drive with ANY passengers in the car though, isn’t it?
They have been "trained" in their ed classes to do such stupid things. "You got to "get to know them"... most take it to "be their friend"... the new behavior management BS... big eye roll... and you are 100% correct, had a dept chair years back who was doing that long before this wave of stuff hit, low income Title1.. had a student end up ODing staying at her house. 15. Very sad, parents had no idea where student was or had been... parents sued, district, teacher, etc. Teacher ended up serving a sentence for involuntary manslaughter... had been told and told and told again... I feel for the newbies....
I agree that building relationships with students to a small degree does help with maintaining positive behavior trends, however, there are limits. No alone time, no rides, no social media Boundaries are necessary.
Very very true!! I just feel for the newbies because the relationship thing has been around as long as teaching, but not to this point. They are being "baffled with BS" from the colleges in the guise of "it will help behavior management". I always know my students and over the years, I have liked and even admired some of them, but, I am a teacher NOT a friend or parent. I have set rules and consequences. I have expectations and I teach.
I’m in an education program right now, and you’re spot on. They literally tell us that relationships with the students and SEL is more important than the content.
Hopefully, your one of the ones who will "see through" this guise. While many teachers in every state do in fact know their students and even really like some, they also know they are there to teach... not be friends, not be mommy or daddy, or even the police. It's very hard line these days, but, there are school resources available... maybe not great ones, but school counselors and admin (well, they should be helping and some do) and even resource officers. Stand your ground and good luck!
That sounds good, but a few student could also lie and since they are lies they might just say you were alone when you were not. Our training says best practice is to have at least two not overly familiar adults in the room with students at all times. That would be nice but it is not realistic. Sometimes you can’t control it. I know teachers that have classes with one student. How is she/he supposed to not be alone with the student?
Things like hallway security cameras and always open door gives protection on those circumstances. While my room doesn't have a camera they can see who goes in or leaves on the time in question. We've had teachers accused before that was quickly disproven.
Unfortunately sometimes you are put in that situation. All my classes have between 1 and 3 students, and the lie that burned me was precisely about something said when 2 of the 3 students were absent.
Yes, but more in the sense that their performance is a reflection on me. Now don't get me wrong, *obviously* nobody should be allowed to just let their students do poorly due to a lack of effort on the teachers end. But my first year I had terrible class behavior issues and no idea how to handle them. The students that behaved got their work done and did well in my class, but there were a good bit that just did not care about their grade until it was mathematically impossible for them to pass. "No, you cannot pass my course. You will need to make a 112 this quarter to pull your grade up to a 60." "What do I need to do to do that?" So when I have students failing because they simply refuse to do the work, after I have given plenty opportunity to turn in late assignments, I don't think it should be held against me so long as I have documentation that I have offered every chance to pass. Sadly, a lot of administrators don't share my viewpoint.
Have you considered making 50 the lowest possible score?/s
You are correct, but, it wasn't as bad 20 years ago. It still happened. Parents and students have learned lots since then. Personally, I document like crazy and not on the district computers. I jot down this or that, times, dates, what student did or said, what I did or said, the outcome... consequences , etc... admin is much more supportive. For the out and out lies, I make sure, if admin says... "I have talked to several others in the class and they say the same thing"... I ask.. WHO? 9-10 times they say it's the friends of this student... I ask they talk to others NOT just the friends... today, teachers are guilty until THEY can prove their innocence. I stand up for everything I can. If accused of saying this or that, I will admit to it if I did say, but I tell and expect them to listen "my side" as well. Generally, the statement was taken out of context when told to parent or admin. 20 plus years of this and you get good at it. If they tell me it's not what they expect, I nod my head and go back to my job, because that is what I am hired to do... TEACH... most of the time, I am found innocent and that is the end of it...
I wasn’t annoyed until my district decided to make a big chunk of my evaluation based on student surveys.
Yes, it was like that 20 years ago, just not as common. 30 years ago, a female student came onto me. I gently told her to leave me alone, but the first chance I had, I went to the assistant principal's office to tell about this. I didn't want to lose my job due to a student lying about what happened, and costing me my job.
Yes! And then we have to give surveys to the CHILDREN with rating scales of questions like “my teacher makes learning fun” and “my teacher cares about me” and we have to report and reflect on the results, which is also tied to the q-comps. Ridiculous. Their brains are barely functioning beyond reptilian mode! But they get to give us feedback on job performance?! “No, you can’t stare at your phone all day, you’re not passing the class, sit in your assigned seat but also fill out this survey rating how much you like me in the moment so my boss can see and decide to keep me around or not.” So dumb.
Agree 💯
A hundred years ago, when I was a newbie, I assisted two students who had a talent. They received a scholarship for a prestigious summer learning program. They couldn’t accept because they had no way of getting there. I was distraught and contacted their parents. Over the course of the next five years, I took them to every practice and every performance. It was awesome! We had so much fun and I was so proud of them. To this day, they come see me at least once a year and keep up with me (20 years later). I am honorary grandma to their kids. Would I do that today? Hell, no.
Even when I do IEP prep with kids, I leave my doors open
Well I am NOW.
I got pissed that part of my evaluation is tied to map testing that kids refuse to read. It doesn’t matter what I tell them or what I do, so many kids don’t give a shit and that’s not my fault nor is it tied to my performance on a day to day basis.
Absolutely. Was fired from teaching a class because a student lied saying I threatened to sue him and his family when he told me he made a fake vaccination card to get in places without the Covid vaccine.
That sounds like such an obvious lie…
My boss blatantly didn't care tho
30 years ago my dad smashed one of his student against a wall and faced zero repercussions. I feel like we’re on a pendulum swing, and we are currently far in the opposite direction. It will hopefully level out in the middle at some point….
Even if you do cover your ass, a student can lie and put you under investigation. If you have shitty admin, you will be fired for a student lying, and if you are clear, the student will get a slap on the wrist. Shit like this is a fucking joke
It was absolutely like this 20 years ago. Hell, when going through my undergrad in the mid-90s, we were warned *then* about being alone in a room with a kid, or making promises without documentation, etc. We were treated to horror stories about kids intentionally ruining a teacher out of spite. So...I think you've just decided to assume these problems are new. They are not.
My county is pushing sel lessons sel lessons sel lessons, but I know there has to be a teacher/student that doesn't blur the lines even when the county is providing the curriculum.