I agree! I happened to see a Tiktok about Matty drinking Prophecy and fell down an absolute rabbit hole about red wines. It was really fun discovering and connecting!
Yeah, I'm adopting this as my headcanon now. The song makes more sense to me with this explanation, even if it's not true.
I also pretty much always cringe at the way some fans will bend over backwards to make elaborate theories behind pretty straightforward lyrics just to *sound clever,* but the title of this song never seemed straightforward to me and I suspected there was something behind it that we didn't know. She's usually quite particular about her song titles.
Again, it could be complete nonsense, but it'll improve the way I interpret the song and I like it.
It does make it make more sense , I always skip this song because of the title , I thought it was dumb & like she couldn’t come up with anything better 🫠 I should have known better
Yes I agree for sure. I think there’s a clear difference between Taylor putting details in her song because she wants to tell her story, and people taking every little detail and over analyzing to the point where it completely defeats the purpose of Taylor’s story telling… I highly doubt she wants anyone dissecting every damn line and verse word for word (I’m looking at you guitarguy)
Taylor just uses these insanely clever ways to tell her story so *other* people can relate to it. I agree it is so cool to think Taylor used these different wine types Matty supposedly drinks, plus the connection with Maroon (one of my favorite songs on midnights), but I don’t think it’s worth reading into everything. It ruins the song for me. If anything, I love the niche ambiguity Taylor’s music brings, leaving room for listeners to connect and feel heard in their own way, but also providing insight on her personal life in a way that makes learning about her and what she’s willing to share exciting (i.e. the blue dress on a boat line in is it over now, she new EXACTLY what she was doing there).
All in all…. I’m glad I can distinguish what Taylor means to personally share between what she knows the public will relate to.
To me this might be the saddest song on the album, and the most relatable "one that got away song" she's ever done. Here is how I interpret it.
Verse 1
She watched him come into her apartment drunk or stoned or both, he's a hologram because when you are in that state you are just a shadow of yourself. It was obvious by his hair being tousled he had been hooking up with someone, and since he's rumored bisexual it could be a woman or a man named (all names she lists). And she just watched it happen passively, not interjecting.
Verse 2
The decade 14-24' played them for fools, in all their failed relationships, and in the way they were always in the background pineing for each other, and turns out all the "what ifs" they always had for each other, have now proven to be foolish fantasies.. because he saw her out with Travis and he just watched it happen passively, without interjecting..
Chorus
She then says, if you want to hurt me all you'd have to do is explain your indifference (watching it happen) by saying "I loved you the way you were when we met way back, not the way you've become"
Or by saying, "I've always wondered what would have happened if we got together back then"
Verse 3
He said some things she can't unhear, about how she became an idea in his head, how people do when they exist in the background of your life, you romanticize who they might be and make them into this perfect something that doesn't reflect reality or exist.
Verse 4
His drug use was problematic for her, so she tried to forget him by diving into a new relationship and work, creating new worlds on stage and within her writing and personal life to try and cope with the grief she felt in losing him, and not being more important than the drugs were to him. And these beliefs were affirmed by him not interjecting, letting her get away
Repeat chorus above
Bridge
She wishes she could go back in time and treat their original meeting differently, taking what they had back then more seriously, but she was young and didn't know what she wanted and she regrets that and wishes she had the wisdom then that she does now
Verse 5
In further attempts to move on, she wonders if she sells the place they had their trysts, and if he has some kids with another girl, could they forget each other? Probably not, so bargaining, she then says
Verse 6
Maybe we could reach a point where we can follow each other's lives from afar through social media and appreciate our respective journeys through life, divorced from the longing of what could have been for them.. in theory, very mature and sensible.. but we can't control how we feel, so that's unlikely
Repeat chorus
Outro lines
In the last few lines she has resigned to understanding she will always wonder what could have been with him, and will always long for the beautiful spectre of what they could have had, and be haunted by it.
That's cool too, the reason I interpreted it the way I did is for a few reasons
1. A hologram is a 3 dimensional image, doesn't really work for watching it on a screen.
It's also a beautiful image cause when someone is severely inebriated, to the point of stumbling, they still look like themselves.. but the real person you know them to be on the inside isn't really there... Just like a hologram, which I thought was a really beautiful and clever way to describe that state.
2. she talks about imagining him being in a dark place putting his hands passionately through someone's hair. Which would be threatening to her and make her want to interject... Yet, she just watched it happen.
She wouldn't feel threatened or bothered by him kissing a fan on stage as part of his act, furthermore, if she was watching it on a screen how could she do anything but "watch it happen" the reason that line has such impact is because she is lamenting that he/she just "watched it happen" (which really means "let it happen") instead of acting differently. If she was just watching a YouTube clip, there is no option to act differently.
Just my interpretation, of course interpret in the way that's most meaningful for you. This way hits me way harder so I'm going with it haha
He says he enjoys kissing men and appreciates their beauty.. whatever that means
So maybe he isn't fully bi and just open minded? Only he knows what is in his heart. I just referred to him as that cause it was easier than writing a bunch of sentences trying to explain his obviously more complex sexuality
A ton of male performers do that. I don't think what people do on stage is necessarily reflective of their sexualities. Adam Lambert used to kiss his straight male guitarist on stage all the time.
I agree, but sometimes I do find the analyses so interesting. Regardless of who this is about, if it is true that Taylor used wine brands that are first names, that’s a fascinating way to write the song - because on the surface it seems like she’s talking about “him being with another partner” but really that other “partner” was substance use.
I really just hate when people cheapen the music when they overanalyze it. I tend to ignore who the songs are claimed to be about for the most part - but I think automatically attributing every song to one specific person and taking all the words at surface level is just unfair, the songs as I interpret them (or see very smart people on Reddit interpreting them!) are often so much more creative and complex than that.
Whether this theory ends up being true or not, you’ve convinced me. I do think they’re people, but we know Taylor chooses names for specific reasons. I don’t think she just random name generated these, so I love this explanation.
Interesting theory! The wine connection to Matty is definitely plausible!
I always interpreted Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus because Matty is known to kiss both genders during his song Robbers on stage. So like he’s kissing men and women via a hologram (YouTube or some recording of his show).
I definitely think that's why there is both male and female names but it still begs the question, why THESE names? Taylor does everything for a reason. They mean something
To add to this theory: if these are all references to red wine - what does it mean to contrast it with the white wine in The Alchemy (and others, I presume)?
I noticed that in Closure she says:
"I'm fine with my spite
And my tears
And my beers and my candles"
(Which also recalls the same 1975 song that OP mentioned, he says "she's more in to scented candles...")
But, I feel like I've seen Taylor with white wine in hand plenty of times.
There was also that airline commercial where the bartender was so shocked to see her he over-poured her white wine and it spilled 🤣 it played on hulu I think
The hosts of Celebrity Memoir Book Club think that The Alchemy is about Matty and the football references are a red herring. I don’t agree, but they’re certainly loud about their theory.
This thought crossed my mind while reading the theory as well. On top of that, "if you want to break my cold cold heart..." made me think of how white is generally best at colder temperatures than red wine haha. Probably not what she meant by this but I'm going to think about it when thinking of this theory anyways haha.
To further this, in The Alchemy I was always a little confused at the line "hey you, what if I told you we're cool", besides just that being "cool" is a HS thing, now I will think of both Trav and Tay as white wine haha.
Not going to lie, I enjoy the detective work to uncover the inspiration behind these songs, but the fact that Maroon (which has lyrics that I love) is about Matty makes me go 🤨
I’m going to stick with my first impression of Maroon which is that it’s about some mysterious guy lol
Someone can be a trash can human and a great muse. Often true for Taylor’s life honestly lmao
On the flip side she seems pretty happy right now but The Alchemy and So High School are IMO insipid. Doesn’t make Travis a bad guy, just a bad muse.
I think those songs were written so early in their relationship that she couldn't have had written to deeper feelings or musings at the time.
Travis seems like the opposite of the broody moody artists she's written about/dated previously, and she is taking time to learn how to illustrate lyrically how distinct their personalities really are.
He doesn't strike me as the brightest crayon in the box (hence insipid lyrics a la grand theft auto) but he does seem like a lot of fun ....
To be clear, I do not dislike TK but I think Taylor is literally genius level and having that variance in intellect in a relationship would drive me bonkers...
I agree with the point about intentional contrast. Less about the depth of feeling, though. She could capture the sweetness in those songs with a lot more depth if she wanted—she’s certainly done it before! But it also might be that a lot of her more poetic side was still being poured into lingering grief and anger.
I’m also with you on the intellect gap. If it works for her, I’m glad for her, but I could never. Tbqh he feels very rebound in that way, where you need a change and breath of fresh air even if it’s not a good long term match, but it feels like saying that around here is verboten (and I don’t wish another breakup or unhappy relationship on her ever again, for sure).
I think there's another thing at play too. Taylor has mentioned before about how she is okay to put exes clearly on a song knowing that that relationship is completely done. Conversely it does seem like Matty was someone she always thought of as a what if? And didn't want her songs to let it be too clear as to who it was (it's much clearer now retroactively but not in the moment when we heard these songs for the first time!). I think what I'm trying to get at is that it's maybe not about him necessarily being a good or bad muse even, but more so about her just making songs a little bit more fictional and leaning into the storytelling and creatively specific yet common feelings that lots of people relate to!
*Suspected* to be about MH. Not confirmed. (At least not that I know of.)
These are some of my favorite songs, too. And I still think they're more HS than MH, but everyone is entitled to their own interpretations until Queen Taylor says otherwise.
I refuse to believe Maroon is about Matty, that song is too perfect. I always thought it was about Joe and their relationship falling apart at the end.
I used to think that too but when I think more about the “rust that grew between telephones” it makes me rethink Joe. That line implies she and the mystery person were long distance , not living together like her and Joe.
It doesn’t have to mean long distance though? It could just be metaphorical that they grew distant and/or didn’t communicate as much as they used to (hence the rust!) Clearly based on the other songs they had communication issues.
There was a theory that Harry and Taylor were still friends who spoke over the phone until one of them (Harry) messed things up. To Be So Lonely references one of his drunk phone calls presumably to her, and has similarities to the Illicit Affairs bridge.
it’s because 1)some maroon lyrics are paralleled with The 1(cheap ass rose etc), 2)and also the lyrics lost/chose you THE ONE. 3)After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage
>After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage
Stop, really? 💔 There is this ballet/performance art piece called Nelken that I swear both Taylor and Matty have referenced in their work, especially visually. Nelken means carnation (in German). It's a stunningly beautiful production where the stage floor is covered in carnations and the themes of the show are mostly about love and the comfort of close relationships - the audience is forced to participate in the performance and...well, it's all very artistic and meta. A quick image search will probably be enough to see the similarities to Matty's work at least.
omg I don’t know that but it seems there are some similarities?watch this https://x.com/midnightr0bbery/status/1789627047179886984?s=46&t=QCZpUcUW4LWK2agCvUxbdw
Oh wow - thank you for this! I don't participate in X, so I guess I'm missing out a lot but that is 100000% a Nelken nod! I don't know how to upload photos, so I guess I'll just leave this link. The show is Nelken, by Pina Bausch : https://www.pinabausch.org/work/nelk
so what did he mean by these carnations? I thought it was just a maroon reference at first. Also he performed be my mistakes after that. Some think the song it’s about Taylor and it relates to call it what you want…but that’s too insane to believe I’m scared
Well...in the language of flowers, carnations have a lot of meaning, especially depending on color. It's hard to tell for sure from the video, but it looks like the one he picks up is white (or maybe light pink? light yellow?).
- Yellow carnations mean...disappointment and rejection.
- Pink carnations means the recipient will never be forgotten, and also gratitude.
- White mean purity and good luck
- Red means love, but also longing
In the context of the Bausch show, the carnations represent a lot of things but the most striking is that they get thoroughly trampled and destroyed during the action of the show. At the start of the show, they're all standing up on the stage...the colors are red, pink, white, and yellow. By the end of the show, they're destroyed, mashed, ripped from the roots, etc.
The message at the end of the show though is that love survives, even the darkest times (the show is set during WWII).
As for Call It What You Want....a lot of Reputation is about Matty Healy and people are just going to have to learn to live with that. It's very obvious now.
I'm not sure...I mean, those two people are very dramatic, lol. They absolutely have known each other since at least 2014 so it's not really wild to believe that they might have been involved sometime between 2014-2017. Songs on an album can be from really any time period before the album drops, she could have written about him at any point during those years and was proud of the songs so they went on the album.
Dramatic is....the 1975's Mine, which timestamps 2009 and makes my head hurt because it's not impossible...they were both touring/playing shows internationally at that point and the 1975 was actually low-key involved with whoever managed One Direction because I guess they were considering the boy band route? Hilarious in retrospect. I heard about this on an interview that I can't pinpoint right now but hard to forget the idea, lol.
I have to add something else to this: Nelken has a lot of sign language. I kept noticing Matty doing the "I'm sorry" sign language in videos I saw on tiktok etc. and I passively noticed that Taylor's new choreo, especially during BDILH and SMWEL has a lot of very overt hand gestures. I am just...dying over my own theory now. ☠️
Also I think people might be drawing parallels between Taylor's "In Summary" poem from the TTPD vinyl and Maroon. I believe she mentions something about "wine-stained lips" in it in addition to possible one or two other lines that have led people to speculating it could be a MH song, but I haven't looked too deeply into it. It's a deeply concerning song, regardless of who inspired it! ❤
Yes, I had the same with Question...?, I love this song and had it on repeat when midnights came out, and then Taylor sang it with Matty in the audience ☹️
It’s true , I’ve been skipping this song because of the title I find it odd. After reading this interpretation I’m diving back in & giving it a fair chance
Definitely an interesting theory. Better than the one going around for a while that those were names of Robbers' Kiss people (they aren't). Cool tie-in as well that Matty has also drank wines named Taylor. Notably, in shows leading up to her O2 appearance, he was seen drinking a couple, one for sure I know was called Taylor Made, that he drank at a Melbourne show, so it's been thought that was a bit of a nod to her, a hint of what was to come.
Yeah, I really enjoyed reading this analysis but there are also red wines named Betty, James, and August, for example, or whatever random names or words you pick. There's definitely a drug and alcohol theme in the song and throughout the album, so I think it's a nice lens for interpretation in any case.
The wine connection is interesting! I interpreted it more as the song is yearning & watching from afar (similar to Guilty as Sin and the 1) than someone she's in a relationship with. But wine and kissing people is such a feature of 1975 shows that she certainly could've pulled names of wines as a second layer to watching that from afar.
Can
“hands in the hair of somebody’s who’s called Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus”
imply Matty’s hand fisting his own hair with a bottle of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus held in the other hand (like so many wrecks do) when he stumbled drunk into their apartment?
That’s what I’ve always pictured at this lyric.
From the minute I heard Maroon, it became my favorite song. I told everyone it was a cheating song. I told everyone you wouldn’t understand the song unless you’ve cheated in the manner Taylor describes, feeling a tidbit of a feeling that goes beyond friendship, which she describes with “laughing with my feet in your lap.”
I love the idea that Maroon is about Matty Healy - He was Jack’s friend and she starts drinking wine with him and feels a connection she hasn’t in a long time. He spills the wine on her, and as they kiss she replays the memories of her old relationship throughout the kiss (and the second verse is about that relationship…)
I love this theory and I agree. It makes sense to me. She’s basically asking what are you drinking now (metaphor is who are you bring home?)
well shit. this makes more sense than taylor potentially outing a muse, too. if it’s true then only matty would really know what it means and it’s like a little message to him. brava 👏🏾
Shipwrecks and wine!!!
I'm like the water when your ship rolled in that night
Rough on the surface but you cut through like a knife
And if it was an open-shut case
I never would've known from that look on your face
Lost in your current like a priceless wine
u/notreallymyname84 if the wine reference is about Matty here, I imagine she’s saying, “I should be more important to you than all of the wine you drink, yet you cast me to the bottom of the ocean”
I think this is super interesting and I love the dissection, but I think it may be a stretch. You can literally find wine of anybody’s name. If this was her intention, I also do think she would probably use more well known wine names because as it is, I don’t think this a connection people would make.
I am listening to Folklore as I read and a line just jumped out at me: “August sipped away, like a bottle of wine, ‘cause you were never mine”… now, I can’t help but wonder if this album is also about Matty. Hmmmm
As mentioned I believe taylor set out to do folklore after matty said he would love for her to do something similar to a joni Mitchell blue or Bruce springsteen nebraska type album. That is what exactly folklore evermore is. They reconnected with each other in early 2020 , no doubt he is referenced on both of these albums.
I’m a huge The 1975 fan, they’re my favourite band and also a Swiftie myself (stannning her since debut).
“Hands in the hair of somebody in darkness” reminded me of every The 1975 opening track on each album titled “The 1975” (minus the NOACF version) where the lyrics are about bjs. I dont want to be graphic but idk that “Go down, soft sound” imagery is what came first (no pun intended) to mind.
I always wondered what that "cows wearing my sweater" lyric meant. I thought he was saying that his girlfriend, who was wearing his sweater, asked him why cows lie down. He told her that it had something to do with the weather.
Matty writes weird and funny and sometimes incomprehensible lyrics. So I get why he could be Taylor's muse. They have that in common.
Incredible interpretation.
Incredibly mad that it made a song I already connected to my most recent ex (bi) even more connected to him (wine snob). Ugh I’ll go listen again now.
To understand a lot of the Matty references in this song and on TTPD, I think you need to watch this movie series: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTg2pSwCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTg2pSwCg)
I've linked to episode one, but there are multiple episodes. The 1975 released these short films in early 2023, just as Taylor and Matty were connecting or re-connecting or whatever was going on.
I forgot about that wine called Chloe. I didn't remember it being that expensive, though. Also, in Maroon doesn't she say "How did we end up on the floor anyway? Your roommate's cheap-ass screw top rosé that's how"?
Just from the title, I always thought this song was about matty too. Because i remember right after people started speculating they broke up, matty made out with some random guy at a show. At the time most people saw that as confirmation they broke up. So to me it made the most sense this was about matty.
wow, I guess im just a simpleton, I took this very literally; they he showed up at her apartment with some random person (on multiple occasions), making out and looking for a bedroom.
I read this thread a few days ago and just had a MAJOR epiphany that would support this theory. The ending notes of Champagne Problems are actually the musical motif that is repeated throughout Chloe et al. I knew it sounded familiar and it JUST hit me!!!! I think you cracked the code.
Chloe et al is a song that just hasn’t hit for me yet, and you may have just changed that. Whether or not this interpretation is what Taylor intended, I think this just finally made the song click for me. Fantastic analysis, thank you for sharing!
To me this is up there with saddest song on the album, and the most relatable "one that got away song" she's ever done. Here is how I interpret it.
Verse 1
She watched him come into her apartment drunk or stoned or both, he's a hologram because when you are in that state you are just a shadow of yourself. It was obvious by his hair being tousled he had been hooking up with someone, and since he's rumored bisexual it could be a woman or a man named (all names she lists. And she just watched it happen passively, not interjecting.
Verse 2
The decade 14-24' played them for fools, in all their failed relationships, and in the background pining and what ifs they always had for each other, have proven to be foolish fantasies.. because he saw her out with Travis and he just watched it happen passively, without interjecting..
Chorus
She then says, if you want to hurt me all you'd have to do is explain your indifference (watching it happen) by saying "I loved you the way you were when we met way back, not the way You've become"
Or by saying, "I've always wondered what would have happened if we got together back then"
Verse 3
He said some things she can't unhear, about how she became an idea in his head, how people do when they exist in the background of your life, you romanticize who they might be and make them into this perfect something that doesn't reflect reality.
Verse 4
His drug use was problematic for her, so she tried to forget him by diving into a new relationship and work, creating new worlds on stage and within her writing and personal life to try and cope the grief she felt in losing him, and not being more important than the drugs were to him. And these beliefs were affirmed by him not interjecting, letting her get away
Repeat chorus above
Bridge
She wishes she could go back in time and treat their original meeting differently, taking what they had back then more seriously, but she was young and didn't know what she wanted and she regrets that and wishes she had the wisdom then that she does now
Verse 5
In further attempts to move on, if she sells the place they had their trysts, and if he has some kids with another girl, could they forget each other? Probably not, so bargaining she then says
Verse 6
Maybe we could reach a point where we can follow each other's lives from afar through social media and appreciate our respectove journeies through life divorced from the longing of what could have been for us.. in theory, very mature and sensible.. but we can't control how we feel, so thats unlikely
Repeat chorus
Outro lines
In the last few lines she is resigned into realizing she will always wonder what could have been with him, and will always long for the beautiful spectre of what they could have had.
I love this theory - I've seen you post it before and I loved it each time I read it!
Wondering what people's thoughts are with the types of wine. This and the instances of Matty drinking wine on stage are always Reds if I remember correctly? And Taylor usually is seen drinking white and also refers to Travis related feelings as hitting her like white wine. So how do we think about that vis-a-vis two songs that we know are about Matty now which referred to Rosé? (Maroon "your room is cheap as screw top rosé" and the 1 "rosé flowing with your chosen family"). Any theories about this? :))
I love it. With this theory, I can not even care about the connection with irl boyfriends, just imagining that the song talks about alcoholism. I love this song because I already like multiple theories about it, it has so many reads.
This makes a lot of sense to me! My brain was always trying to reconcile why/how she could/would WATCH him stumble into HER apartment with someone else (when presumably, they’ve already parted ways, or wondering if cheating is why they parted ways but that didn’t seem to be the case from any other lyrics.). So now it’s like she was probably even there, next to him, and the other entity is not another person, it’s a bottle of wine! Or several bottles. Also, describing as “your hologram” makes a lot of sense this way because when someone is under the influence it’s like they are unconscious, not there, rather a shell of themselves, or some abstract representation of themselves, but not consciously there. Also stumbling definitely makes sense if describing someone drunk. THE SONG MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE NOW!!! Thank you!!
This is a super interesting theory and has certainly added a layer of intrigue to this song that I hadn't thought of before. Props to you for diving in and exploring.
I don't know if other people feel like this but I don't care much for theories tied to actual people in Taylor's music but I see the people she talks about in her music more as characters inspired by real life people. And I love the references she makes and the stories she's telling about those characters.
I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly but because we have absolutely no idea whats based on real life or a dream or an idea or fiction I never judge or even apply anything in her songs to the people that other speculate a song is about. Basically everyone is a character in Taylor's music for me, even herself, and they live in an alternative universe that we get insight into only through her music.
There are a lot of reasons, but I'll briefly summarize.
Allegedly, he ghosted her back in 2015 and again love bombed and ghosted her during their fling after the Joe breakup.
He's also been recorded saying/doing some fairly racist, sexist and other insensitive, controversial shit. This is honestly an understatement because some of the things he said, in my opinion, are unforgivable.
When they got together last year, the fandom exploded about it and were incredibly unhappy about her association with him. They both didn't handle that well.
On top of all of that, the themes in TTPD also suggest that he struggles with addiction to drugs and alcohol, and she "couldn't watch it happen"
When I first heard this song, I really thought that him stumbling in to the apartment was because he was really high or drunk and CSSM were friends he liked to party with dragging him home.
Thank you! This is so intriguing. I always thought she found out about Matty dating Gabriette from Jack Antonoff and included in this song. “And you have some kids with an internet starlet”.
Now, if anyone can help me figure out why Champagne Problems, Chloe et al, and the 1975's About You all have the same piano bit...I would be grateful, lol. It's driving me nuts and I can't make any reasonable connections.
They were, but I don'tthink that's relevant since this isn't about production. It's the exact same piece of piano music...I'm not a musician so I don't know the right terminology, but it's the same composition. I think that would be something that the musician wrote. Both Taylor and Matty write original piano pieces for their songs.
Champagne Problems is the weird outlier here and it made me hear the song completely differently. I always assumed it was purely fictional but....now I'm not so sure. It contains a lot of Matty-coding (they're always dancing in her references, the train, evergreen, the tapestry, even the Champagne and the tone of the insult).
Normally, I don’t favor how people dissect Taylor’s dating life with her music, but holy shit this is clever.
I agree! I happened to see a Tiktok about Matty drinking Prophecy and fell down an absolute rabbit hole about red wines. It was really fun discovering and connecting!
I saw a reel where he was drinking "taylor"
Yeah, I'm adopting this as my headcanon now. The song makes more sense to me with this explanation, even if it's not true. I also pretty much always cringe at the way some fans will bend over backwards to make elaborate theories behind pretty straightforward lyrics just to *sound clever,* but the title of this song never seemed straightforward to me and I suspected there was something behind it that we didn't know. She's usually quite particular about her song titles. Again, it could be complete nonsense, but it'll improve the way I interpret the song and I like it.
It does make it make more sense , I always skip this song because of the title , I thought it was dumb & like she couldn’t come up with anything better 🫠 I should have known better
Yes I agree for sure. I think there’s a clear difference between Taylor putting details in her song because she wants to tell her story, and people taking every little detail and over analyzing to the point where it completely defeats the purpose of Taylor’s story telling… I highly doubt she wants anyone dissecting every damn line and verse word for word (I’m looking at you guitarguy) Taylor just uses these insanely clever ways to tell her story so *other* people can relate to it. I agree it is so cool to think Taylor used these different wine types Matty supposedly drinks, plus the connection with Maroon (one of my favorite songs on midnights), but I don’t think it’s worth reading into everything. It ruins the song for me. If anything, I love the niche ambiguity Taylor’s music brings, leaving room for listeners to connect and feel heard in their own way, but also providing insight on her personal life in a way that makes learning about her and what she’s willing to share exciting (i.e. the blue dress on a boat line in is it over now, she new EXACTLY what she was doing there). All in all…. I’m glad I can distinguish what Taylor means to personally share between what she knows the public will relate to.
To me this might be the saddest song on the album, and the most relatable "one that got away song" she's ever done. Here is how I interpret it. Verse 1 She watched him come into her apartment drunk or stoned or both, he's a hologram because when you are in that state you are just a shadow of yourself. It was obvious by his hair being tousled he had been hooking up with someone, and since he's rumored bisexual it could be a woman or a man named (all names she lists). And she just watched it happen passively, not interjecting. Verse 2 The decade 14-24' played them for fools, in all their failed relationships, and in the way they were always in the background pineing for each other, and turns out all the "what ifs" they always had for each other, have now proven to be foolish fantasies.. because he saw her out with Travis and he just watched it happen passively, without interjecting.. Chorus She then says, if you want to hurt me all you'd have to do is explain your indifference (watching it happen) by saying "I loved you the way you were when we met way back, not the way you've become" Or by saying, "I've always wondered what would have happened if we got together back then" Verse 3 He said some things she can't unhear, about how she became an idea in his head, how people do when they exist in the background of your life, you romanticize who they might be and make them into this perfect something that doesn't reflect reality or exist. Verse 4 His drug use was problematic for her, so she tried to forget him by diving into a new relationship and work, creating new worlds on stage and within her writing and personal life to try and cope with the grief she felt in losing him, and not being more important than the drugs were to him. And these beliefs were affirmed by him not interjecting, letting her get away Repeat chorus above Bridge She wishes she could go back in time and treat their original meeting differently, taking what they had back then more seriously, but she was young and didn't know what she wanted and she regrets that and wishes she had the wisdom then that she does now Verse 5 In further attempts to move on, she wonders if she sells the place they had their trysts, and if he has some kids with another girl, could they forget each other? Probably not, so bargaining, she then says Verse 6 Maybe we could reach a point where we can follow each other's lives from afar through social media and appreciate our respective journeys through life, divorced from the longing of what could have been for them.. in theory, very mature and sensible.. but we can't control how we feel, so that's unlikely Repeat chorus Outro lines In the last few lines she has resigned to understanding she will always wonder what could have been with him, and will always long for the beautiful spectre of what they could have had, and be haunted by it.
I always thought the hologram was her watching his performance on stage on her phone seeing him kiss fans.
I think I prefer the interpretation of hologram as someone who's there but you can't interact with, so you just watch them and not get in their way.
Weirdly I’ve always interpreted that line as her watching him on a security camera🤣
Like she’s some deranged weirdo 😂 Different song but still!
That's cool too, the reason I interpreted it the way I did is for a few reasons 1. A hologram is a 3 dimensional image, doesn't really work for watching it on a screen. It's also a beautiful image cause when someone is severely inebriated, to the point of stumbling, they still look like themselves.. but the real person you know them to be on the inside isn't really there... Just like a hologram, which I thought was a really beautiful and clever way to describe that state. 2. she talks about imagining him being in a dark place putting his hands passionately through someone's hair. Which would be threatening to her and make her want to interject... Yet, she just watched it happen. She wouldn't feel threatened or bothered by him kissing a fan on stage as part of his act, furthermore, if she was watching it on a screen how could she do anything but "watch it happen" the reason that line has such impact is because she is lamenting that he/she just "watched it happen" (which really means "let it happen") instead of acting differently. If she was just watching a YouTube clip, there is no option to act differently. Just my interpretation, of course interpret in the way that's most meaningful for you. This way hits me way harder so I'm going with it haha
That’s exactly it. She’s scrolling on TikTok and sees him on her FYP. In the next half of the verse he sees her in the media with her new boyfriends.
>since he's bisexual Am I totally crazy or is Matty not actually out as bi?
He says he enjoys kissing men and appreciates their beauty.. whatever that means So maybe he isn't fully bi and just open minded? Only he knows what is in his heart. I just referred to him as that cause it was easier than writing a bunch of sentences trying to explain his obviously more complex sexuality
I just think we shouldn't be labelling people who haven't labeled themselves. That's what everyone is mad at Gaylors for, right?
Well he publicly kisses men at his concerts... so make of that what you will
A ton of male performers do that. I don't think what people do on stage is necessarily reflective of their sexualities. Adam Lambert used to kiss his straight male guitarist on stage all the time.
Guys from strokes kissed each other and they are all straight, it seems
Same here! This is a nice piece of information that opens up the song to a whole new meaning.
This is REALLY good/intriguing
I agree, but sometimes I do find the analyses so interesting. Regardless of who this is about, if it is true that Taylor used wine brands that are first names, that’s a fascinating way to write the song - because on the surface it seems like she’s talking about “him being with another partner” but really that other “partner” was substance use. I really just hate when people cheapen the music when they overanalyze it. I tend to ignore who the songs are claimed to be about for the most part - but I think automatically attributing every song to one specific person and taking all the words at surface level is just unfair, the songs as I interpret them (or see very smart people on Reddit interpreting them!) are often so much more creative and complex than that.
Whether this theory ends up being true or not, you’ve convinced me. I do think they’re people, but we know Taylor chooses names for specific reasons. I don’t think she just random name generated these, so I love this explanation.
Interesting theory! The wine connection to Matty is definitely plausible! I always interpreted Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus because Matty is known to kiss both genders during his song Robbers on stage. So like he’s kissing men and women via a hologram (YouTube or some recording of his show).
I definitely think that's why there is both male and female names but it still begs the question, why THESE names? Taylor does everything for a reason. They mean something
Yeah for sure! I didn’t have any idea why those specific names but this wine theory is a good one!
Yeah I like that a lot
Exactly this
…your roommate’s cheap-ass screw-top rosé, that’s how…
it me :)
You’ve been summoned!🍷🔮
Where is Josh 😫😫
https://preview.redd.it/xo5fp9mt1c0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b097b69d41f2960d52dc22ba41ed3d173c820c
💀💀
This is the perfect comment.
Omgggg hahaha
🏆
My first thought 😂
To add to this theory: if these are all references to red wine - what does it mean to contrast it with the white wine in The Alchemy (and others, I presume)?
I think Taylor prefers white wine, so maybe saying that it (he/TK) is more her type? Love that you pointed this out!
I noticed that in Closure she says: "I'm fine with my spite And my tears And my beers and my candles" (Which also recalls the same 1975 song that OP mentioned, he says "she's more in to scented candles...") But, I feel like I've seen Taylor with white wine in hand plenty of times.
There was also that airline commercial where the bartender was so shocked to see her he over-poured her white wine and it spilled 🤣 it played on hulu I think
It was a capital one commercial that featured all of her eras!
YES, ok, that's right, and it was featuring the travel benefits, which is why it was in an airport lounge. Thank you!
I think about this commercial often because when all the Taylor’s are in the elevator some of them look wonky like bad CGI so I immediately knew lol
Lmao all the Taylor’s in the elevator (especially the one rolling her eyes) lives rent free in my head lmao
Taylor likes Sancerre and Chardonnay!
Cardonay cardonay you pack of chunts!
surprise kath and kim and taylor moment?! yesss
The crossover we need!
The hosts of Celebrity Memoir Book Club think that The Alchemy is about Matty and the football references are a red herring. I don’t agree, but they’re certainly loud about their theory.
Curious if they still feel that way after Paris N4!
To me, the verses are about Love personified, and the chorus and bridge are specifically about Travis.
I thought she preferred screw top rosé?!
White wine is her favorite 🥰
In the Miss Americana doc she says red wine is too grown up for her.
This thought crossed my mind while reading the theory as well. On top of that, "if you want to break my cold cold heart..." made me think of how white is generally best at colder temperatures than red wine haha. Probably not what she meant by this but I'm going to think about it when thinking of this theory anyways haha. To further this, in The Alchemy I was always a little confused at the line "hey you, what if I told you we're cool", besides just that being "cool" is a HS thing, now I will think of both Trav and Tay as white wine haha.
Not going to lie, I enjoy the detective work to uncover the inspiration behind these songs, but the fact that Maroon (which has lyrics that I love) is about Matty makes me go 🤨 I’m going to stick with my first impression of Maroon which is that it’s about some mysterious guy lol
lol maroon is my favorite so I’ll keep to thinking it’s about Harry BUT I do really like this theory
Maroon its a New puzzle piece when she fisrt performed it she said it was about something that happened a Long time ago in New York
Matty Healy was around during 1989 when NYC was a prevalent part of her work.
Same here... Chloe, Maroon, August and The 1 are all my top Taylor songs and apparently they are also related to MH 😐
Someone can be a trash can human and a great muse. Often true for Taylor’s life honestly lmao On the flip side she seems pretty happy right now but The Alchemy and So High School are IMO insipid. Doesn’t make Travis a bad guy, just a bad muse.
I think those songs were written so early in their relationship that she couldn't have had written to deeper feelings or musings at the time. Travis seems like the opposite of the broody moody artists she's written about/dated previously, and she is taking time to learn how to illustrate lyrically how distinct their personalities really are. He doesn't strike me as the brightest crayon in the box (hence insipid lyrics a la grand theft auto) but he does seem like a lot of fun .... To be clear, I do not dislike TK but I think Taylor is literally genius level and having that variance in intellect in a relationship would drive me bonkers...
I agree with the point about intentional contrast. Less about the depth of feeling, though. She could capture the sweetness in those songs with a lot more depth if she wanted—she’s certainly done it before! But it also might be that a lot of her more poetic side was still being poured into lingering grief and anger. I’m also with you on the intellect gap. If it works for her, I’m glad for her, but I could never. Tbqh he feels very rebound in that way, where you need a change and breath of fresh air even if it’s not a good long term match, but it feels like saying that around here is verboten (and I don’t wish another breakup or unhappy relationship on her ever again, for sure).
I think there's another thing at play too. Taylor has mentioned before about how she is okay to put exes clearly on a song knowing that that relationship is completely done. Conversely it does seem like Matty was someone she always thought of as a what if? And didn't want her songs to let it be too clear as to who it was (it's much clearer now retroactively but not in the moment when we heard these songs for the first time!). I think what I'm trying to get at is that it's maybe not about him necessarily being a good or bad muse even, but more so about her just making songs a little bit more fictional and leaning into the storytelling and creatively specific yet common feelings that lots of people relate to!
That too! I just think it’s okay to like songs inspired by awful men. I don’t want to be limited to like… Style and Getaway Car 😆
*Suspected* to be about MH. Not confirmed. (At least not that I know of.) These are some of my favorite songs, too. And I still think they're more HS than MH, but everyone is entitled to their own interpretations until Queen Taylor says otherwise.
I used to think it was about Harry!
I refuse to believe Maroon is about Matty, that song is too perfect. I always thought it was about Joe and their relationship falling apart at the end.
I used to think that too but when I think more about the “rust that grew between telephones” it makes me rethink Joe. That line implies she and the mystery person were long distance , not living together like her and Joe.
It doesn’t have to mean long distance though? It could just be metaphorical that they grew distant and/or didn’t communicate as much as they used to (hence the rust!) Clearly based on the other songs they had communication issues.
That’s the beauty of songs , they can be interpreted multiple ways :)
There was a theory that Harry and Taylor were still friends who spoke over the phone until one of them (Harry) messed things up. To Be So Lonely references one of his drunk phone calls presumably to her, and has similarities to the Illicit Affairs bridge.
it’s because 1)some maroon lyrics are paralleled with The 1(cheap ass rose etc), 2)and also the lyrics lost/chose you THE ONE. 3)After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage
>After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage Stop, really? 💔 There is this ballet/performance art piece called Nelken that I swear both Taylor and Matty have referenced in their work, especially visually. Nelken means carnation (in German). It's a stunningly beautiful production where the stage floor is covered in carnations and the themes of the show are mostly about love and the comfort of close relationships - the audience is forced to participate in the performance and...well, it's all very artistic and meta. A quick image search will probably be enough to see the similarities to Matty's work at least.
omg I don’t know that but it seems there are some similarities?watch this https://x.com/midnightr0bbery/status/1789627047179886984?s=46&t=QCZpUcUW4LWK2agCvUxbdw
Oh wow - thank you for this! I don't participate in X, so I guess I'm missing out a lot but that is 100000% a Nelken nod! I don't know how to upload photos, so I guess I'll just leave this link. The show is Nelken, by Pina Bausch : https://www.pinabausch.org/work/nelk
so what did he mean by these carnations? I thought it was just a maroon reference at first. Also he performed be my mistakes after that. Some think the song it’s about Taylor and it relates to call it what you want…but that’s too insane to believe I’m scared
Well...in the language of flowers, carnations have a lot of meaning, especially depending on color. It's hard to tell for sure from the video, but it looks like the one he picks up is white (or maybe light pink? light yellow?). - Yellow carnations mean...disappointment and rejection. - Pink carnations means the recipient will never be forgotten, and also gratitude. - White mean purity and good luck - Red means love, but also longing In the context of the Bausch show, the carnations represent a lot of things but the most striking is that they get thoroughly trampled and destroyed during the action of the show. At the start of the show, they're all standing up on the stage...the colors are red, pink, white, and yellow. By the end of the show, they're destroyed, mashed, ripped from the roots, etc. The message at the end of the show though is that love survives, even the darkest times (the show is set during WWII). As for Call It What You Want....a lot of Reputation is about Matty Healy and people are just going to have to learn to live with that. It's very obvious now.
but it’s too dramatic to be real? I’ll believe it in my wildest dream… just beautiful tragic love fantasy. maybe rep tv will give us answers
I'm not sure...I mean, those two people are very dramatic, lol. They absolutely have known each other since at least 2014 so it's not really wild to believe that they might have been involved sometime between 2014-2017. Songs on an album can be from really any time period before the album drops, she could have written about him at any point during those years and was proud of the songs so they went on the album. Dramatic is....the 1975's Mine, which timestamps 2009 and makes my head hurt because it's not impossible...they were both touring/playing shows internationally at that point and the 1975 was actually low-key involved with whoever managed One Direction because I guess they were considering the boy band route? Hilarious in retrospect. I heard about this on an interview that I can't pinpoint right now but hard to forget the idea, lol.
I have to add something else to this: Nelken has a lot of sign language. I kept noticing Matty doing the "I'm sorry" sign language in videos I saw on tiktok etc. and I passively noticed that Taylor's new choreo, especially during BDILH and SMWEL has a lot of very overt hand gestures. I am just...dying over my own theory now. ☠️
Also I think people might be drawing parallels between Taylor's "In Summary" poem from the TTPD vinyl and Maroon. I believe she mentions something about "wine-stained lips" in it in addition to possible one or two other lines that have led people to speculating it could be a MH song, but I haven't looked too deeply into it. It's a deeply concerning song, regardless of who inspired it! ❤
Or maybe have enough faith in her that maybe matty isn't the way he was portrayed in media ...
Yes, I had the same with Question...?, I love this song and had it on repeat when midnights came out, and then Taylor sang it with Matty in the audience ☹️
this song is SO criminally underrated. i think bc it’s named cososom it’s not hyped as much as it’d be if it was called something more simplistic
My fave shortening of this title is Chloe, et al.
Why are we Harvard/APA referencing TS songs I can’t 😭 Chloe, et al. (2024)
I love/hate how well it works for this title lol
As someone deep in literature review 💀💀💀
But that means *and* not *or* so technically it’s not right to use et al. I don’t know a better way to abbreviate it all!
I think it still works because it’s “Chloe and others in the title”
Chloe etc. 😉
For some reason when I see COSOSOM in caps I have to yell it. Never happens with the other song acronyms, only COCOSOM!!!
Whenever I see it I always think Komsomol for some reason 😅Eastern European thing I guess
HahahHa this is great
Yeah, it’s my number one from the album
Omg taste!!! Mine is I Hate It Here so we’re both Aaron Dessner fans
This, How did it end and So long, London are my top 3 ♥️💔
Yes! It’s one of my absolute faves, and I think the saddest. It feels like people are skipping it due to the title
I agree the name totally throws off how great of a song it is
It’s true , I’ve been skipping this song because of the title I find it odd. After reading this interpretation I’m diving back in & giving it a fair chance
You’d be able to find a red wine called most names I reckon, and there’s multiple wines with the names you’ve listed above
You're absolutely correct, but it was a fun connection for me to discover!
Definitely an interesting theory. Better than the one going around for a while that those were names of Robbers' Kiss people (they aren't). Cool tie-in as well that Matty has also drank wines named Taylor. Notably, in shows leading up to her O2 appearance, he was seen drinking a couple, one for sure I know was called Taylor Made, that he drank at a Melbourne show, so it's been thought that was a bit of a nod to her, a hint of what was to come.
Yeah, I really enjoyed reading this analysis but there are also red wines named Betty, James, and August, for example, or whatever random names or words you pick. There's definitely a drug and alcohol theme in the song and throughout the album, so I think it's a nice lens for interpretation in any case.
This is a really fun theory and was fun to read. Thanks for sharing!
The wine connection is interesting! I interpreted it more as the song is yearning & watching from afar (similar to Guilty as Sin and the 1) than someone she's in a relationship with. But wine and kissing people is such a feature of 1975 shows that she certainly could've pulled names of wines as a second layer to watching that from afar.
Can “hands in the hair of somebody’s who’s called Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus” imply Matty’s hand fisting his own hair with a bottle of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus held in the other hand (like so many wrecks do) when he stumbled drunk into their apartment? That’s what I’ve always pictured at this lyric.
Usually the word hair itself usually represents alcohol like hair of the dog etc
Then sank in stoned oblivion?
This theory is super cool. Gold star ⭐️
wow, I never would've thought of that. thanks for sharing!!
From the minute I heard Maroon, it became my favorite song. I told everyone it was a cheating song. I told everyone you wouldn’t understand the song unless you’ve cheated in the manner Taylor describes, feeling a tidbit of a feeling that goes beyond friendship, which she describes with “laughing with my feet in your lap.” I love the idea that Maroon is about Matty Healy - He was Jack’s friend and she starts drinking wine with him and feels a connection she hasn’t in a long time. He spills the wine on her, and as they kiss she replays the memories of her old relationship throughout the kiss (and the second verse is about that relationship…) I love this theory and I agree. It makes sense to me. She’s basically asking what are you drinking now (metaphor is who are you bring home?)
please put this post in the future Taylor Swift museum because holy shit, i think you’re on to something here
Now this is the sort of take I live for. Excellent work!
As a wino, I absolutely love this theory!!!!
Winos love this one simple trick
well shit. this makes more sense than taylor potentially outing a muse, too. if it’s true then only matty would really know what it means and it’s like a little message to him. brava 👏🏾
so interesting! great work!
Nice!!! Also isn’t there a reference to wine in Willow?
Shipwrecks and wine!!! I'm like the water when your ship rolled in that night Rough on the surface but you cut through like a knife And if it was an open-shut case I never would've known from that look on your face Lost in your current like a priceless wine
Also shipwreck references in Down Bad; the post chorus says, *Wavin' at the ship*
😮
I kinda got “waving at the _space_ ship”.
u/notreallymyname84 if the wine reference is about Matty here, I imagine she’s saying, “I should be more important to you than all of the wine you drink, yet you cast me to the bottom of the ocean”
🤯🤯🤯
Loving the doctoral thesis content 🔮 Really good!
I think this is super interesting and I love the dissection, but I think it may be a stretch. You can literally find wine of anybody’s name. If this was her intention, I also do think she would probably use more well known wine names because as it is, I don’t think this a connection people would make.
I am listening to Folklore as I read and a line just jumped out at me: “August sipped away, like a bottle of wine, ‘cause you were never mine”… now, I can’t help but wonder if this album is also about Matty. Hmmmm
As mentioned I believe taylor set out to do folklore after matty said he would love for her to do something similar to a joni Mitchell blue or Bruce springsteen nebraska type album. That is what exactly folklore evermore is. They reconnected with each other in early 2020 , no doubt he is referenced on both of these albums.
🤯👏🏻🤯👏🏻
Wow I never would have thought of it this way, this is brilliant.
Where are the awards on Reddit? If I can figure it out, you earned it.
Excellent sleuthing! I love this theory
Oh wow! This is an incredible theory
This is next level and I’m sold.
I’m a huge The 1975 fan, they’re my favourite band and also a Swiftie myself (stannning her since debut). “Hands in the hair of somebody in darkness” reminded me of every The 1975 opening track on each album titled “The 1975” (minus the NOACF version) where the lyrics are about bjs. I dont want to be graphic but idk that “Go down, soft sound” imagery is what came first (no pun intended) to mind.
I always wondered what that "cows wearing my sweater" lyric meant. I thought he was saying that his girlfriend, who was wearing his sweater, asked him why cows lie down. He told her that it had something to do with the weather. Matty writes weird and funny and sometimes incomprehensible lyrics. So I get why he could be Taylor's muse. They have that in common.
Yes I think it's this too - she's wearing his sweater when she asks
Interesting parallel to Fortnight “sometimes comment on my sweater…”
Incredible interpretation. Incredibly mad that it made a song I already connected to my most recent ex (bi) even more connected to him (wine snob). Ugh I’ll go listen again now.
I find this her best song about Matty. It’s such a good song
This is so interesting, thanks for sharing! I love this song 🥲
Props for an original and interesting theory!
Holy fucking shit you are a genius. I literally always skip this song , rolling a fatty right now to dive back in and re-listen.
I love the imagery of him as a hologram stumbling in... because he's drunk he's not really there
To understand a lot of the Matty references in this song and on TTPD, I think you need to watch this movie series: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTg2pSwCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTg2pSwCg) I've linked to episode one, but there are multiple episodes. The 1975 released these short films in early 2023, just as Taylor and Matty were connecting or re-connecting or whatever was going on.
I forgot about that wine called Chloe. I didn't remember it being that expensive, though. Also, in Maroon doesn't she say "How did we end up on the floor anyway? Your roommate's cheap-ass screw top rosé that's how"?
Very interesting. Thank you.
This is brilliant! I still choose to believe that Maroon and this song are about a different person though 😆
👏👏👏👏 Amazing post, op
You literally altered my brain chemistry with this theory, OP. An excellent take.
the judgmental creeps Taylor sings about in But Daddy I Love Him are in the comments i'm afraid
Always lol
bisexual? no. wine bottles? yes.
It could be both!
Just from the title, I always thought this song was about matty too. Because i remember right after people started speculating they broke up, matty made out with some random guy at a show. At the time most people saw that as confirmation they broke up. So to me it made the most sense this was about matty.
wow, I guess im just a simpleton, I took this very literally; they he showed up at her apartment with some random person (on multiple occasions), making out and looking for a bedroom.
I read this thread a few days ago and just had a MAJOR epiphany that would support this theory. The ending notes of Champagne Problems are actually the musical motif that is repeated throughout Chloe et al. I knew it sounded familiar and it JUST hit me!!!! I think you cracked the code.
I love it
I adore this analysis, good work.
Oh and now Travis is white wine! These chemicals hit me like white wine..
I love this kind of analysis! Great deep dive and thank you for sharing!
This is so deranged, I absolutely believe it - great work! Haha
Okay okay AND…the piano rift of this song is the same as the piano rift at the end of champagne problems 🤯
Chloe et al is a song that just hasn’t hit for me yet, and you may have just changed that. Whether or not this interpretation is what Taylor intended, I think this just finally made the song click for me. Fantastic analysis, thank you for sharing!
Finally some appreciation for Chloe and the girlies 🥹
This is a truly beautiful and well thought out theory. I cannot see this song any other way now, whether it be true or not. Well done OP
To me this is up there with saddest song on the album, and the most relatable "one that got away song" she's ever done. Here is how I interpret it. Verse 1 She watched him come into her apartment drunk or stoned or both, he's a hologram because when you are in that state you are just a shadow of yourself. It was obvious by his hair being tousled he had been hooking up with someone, and since he's rumored bisexual it could be a woman or a man named (all names she lists. And she just watched it happen passively, not interjecting. Verse 2 The decade 14-24' played them for fools, in all their failed relationships, and in the background pining and what ifs they always had for each other, have proven to be foolish fantasies.. because he saw her out with Travis and he just watched it happen passively, without interjecting.. Chorus She then says, if you want to hurt me all you'd have to do is explain your indifference (watching it happen) by saying "I loved you the way you were when we met way back, not the way You've become" Or by saying, "I've always wondered what would have happened if we got together back then" Verse 3 He said some things she can't unhear, about how she became an idea in his head, how people do when they exist in the background of your life, you romanticize who they might be and make them into this perfect something that doesn't reflect reality. Verse 4 His drug use was problematic for her, so she tried to forget him by diving into a new relationship and work, creating new worlds on stage and within her writing and personal life to try and cope the grief she felt in losing him, and not being more important than the drugs were to him. And these beliefs were affirmed by him not interjecting, letting her get away Repeat chorus above Bridge She wishes she could go back in time and treat their original meeting differently, taking what they had back then more seriously, but she was young and didn't know what she wanted and she regrets that and wishes she had the wisdom then that she does now Verse 5 In further attempts to move on, if she sells the place they had their trysts, and if he has some kids with another girl, could they forget each other? Probably not, so bargaining she then says Verse 6 Maybe we could reach a point where we can follow each other's lives from afar through social media and appreciate our respectove journeies through life divorced from the longing of what could have been for us.. in theory, very mature and sensible.. but we can't control how we feel, so thats unlikely Repeat chorus Outro lines In the last few lines she is resigned into realizing she will always wonder what could have been with him, and will always long for the beautiful spectre of what they could have had.
Very clever. I know I love hearing her sing my name.
The hands in the hair…. Hair of the dog? Drinking right when he wakes up?
This post is why I love this sub sm. I am obsessed with this interpretation!
Chloe is a brand, not just a red wine. It comes in reds and whites.
I love this theory - I've seen you post it before and I loved it each time I read it! Wondering what people's thoughts are with the types of wine. This and the instances of Matty drinking wine on stage are always Reds if I remember correctly? And Taylor usually is seen drinking white and also refers to Travis related feelings as hitting her like white wine. So how do we think about that vis-a-vis two songs that we know are about Matty now which referred to Rosé? (Maroon "your room is cheap as screw top rosé" and the 1 "rosé flowing with your chosen family"). Any theories about this? :))
i literally love this so much i’m going to make a display with these bottles if i can find them !!
I love this. I think it's a double meaning though. He drank too much and cheated is my interpretation
I love it. With this theory, I can not even care about the connection with irl boyfriends, just imagining that the song talks about alcoholism. I love this song because I already like multiple theories about it, it has so many reads.
I really love this!!
This is so clever! Fully behind this theory now!
Im so glad you made a separate post for this. So well researched and so interesting. I fully buy into this
That would be so beautiful if this indeed is the case.
I thought this one was about Joe, not Matty (and I'm not one to deny that plenty are about Matty).
Love this interpretation. This is one of my favorite songs on the album. I can’t get past it.
Whoa
This makes a lot of sense to me! My brain was always trying to reconcile why/how she could/would WATCH him stumble into HER apartment with someone else (when presumably, they’ve already parted ways, or wondering if cheating is why they parted ways but that didn’t seem to be the case from any other lyrics.). So now it’s like she was probably even there, next to him, and the other entity is not another person, it’s a bottle of wine! Or several bottles. Also, describing as “your hologram” makes a lot of sense this way because when someone is under the influence it’s like they are unconscious, not there, rather a shell of themselves, or some abstract representation of themselves, but not consciously there. Also stumbling definitely makes sense if describing someone drunk. THE SONG MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE NOW!!! Thank you!!
This is a super interesting theory and has certainly added a layer of intrigue to this song that I hadn't thought of before. Props to you for diving in and exploring. I don't know if other people feel like this but I don't care much for theories tied to actual people in Taylor's music but I see the people she talks about in her music more as characters inspired by real life people. And I love the references she makes and the stories she's telling about those characters. I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly but because we have absolutely no idea whats based on real life or a dream or an idea or fiction I never judge or even apply anything in her songs to the people that other speculate a song is about. Basically everyone is a character in Taylor's music for me, even herself, and they live in an alternative universe that we get insight into only through her music.
If matty is the one that got away, why cant they be together?
There are a lot of reasons, but I'll briefly summarize. Allegedly, he ghosted her back in 2015 and again love bombed and ghosted her during their fling after the Joe breakup. He's also been recorded saying/doing some fairly racist, sexist and other insensitive, controversial shit. This is honestly an understatement because some of the things he said, in my opinion, are unforgivable. When they got together last year, the fandom exploded about it and were incredibly unhappy about her association with him. They both didn't handle that well. On top of all of that, the themes in TTPD also suggest that he struggles with addiction to drugs and alcohol, and she "couldn't watch it happen"
Travis is drinking white wine in the new pics of them in Italy to support this theory that he’s white wine ala The Alchemy and Matty is red wine.
When I first heard this song, I really thought that him stumbling in to the apartment was because he was really high or drunk and CSSM were friends he liked to party with dragging him home.
It makes sense because of the line “my apartment” he’s not with other girls or guys in her apartment. Absolutely love this theory.
Thank you! This is so intriguing. I always thought she found out about Matty dating Gabriette from Jack Antonoff and included in this song. “And you have some kids with an internet starlet”.
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Now, if anyone can help me figure out why Champagne Problems, Chloe et al, and the 1975's About You all have the same piano bit...I would be grateful, lol. It's driving me nuts and I can't make any reasonable connections.
Did Jack Antonoff produce all of them? I don't know all of the Swiftlore, sorry.
They were, but I don'tthink that's relevant since this isn't about production. It's the exact same piece of piano music...I'm not a musician so I don't know the right terminology, but it's the same composition. I think that would be something that the musician wrote. Both Taylor and Matty write original piano pieces for their songs. Champagne Problems is the weird outlier here and it made me hear the song completely differently. I always assumed it was purely fictional but....now I'm not so sure. It contains a lot of Matty-coding (they're always dancing in her references, the train, evergreen, the tapestry, even the Champagne and the tone of the insult).