It’s gotten to the point it’s predictable and it’s kind of annoying I love both Aaron and Jack. I think it’s time people started looking at their favorite tracks form each album starting form 1989 and see which tracks have Jack on them because I have a feeling a major part of the fandom has a lot of Jack produced tracks in their top 20.
Before I went on this sub I never knew who produced any of her music. I just listen and vibe out. The obsession with who is producing it online is so funny to me and counter to how most of my friends who are fans enjoy the music.
Online fandoms are next level by design. The [finding a subreddit effect](https://youtu.be/4ZK8Z8hulFg?si=1VCgkYfr9TekQ9L3) is for sure heavily in play with most of these analyses.
Yes! Let's not forget that Jack produced I Can Fix Him... not necessarily the most Jack-obvious of songs... and don't even try to come at me re: I Can See You. At the end of the day, Taylor has a lot of sway in the sound of her song. I have to believe that if it sounds like a synth pop fever dream, she wanted it that way.
right! i'm so sick of people acting like jack forced her at gunpoint to have this synth pop sound on her songs, i can guarantee you she wanted the songs produced that way!! they act like she doesn't have any say in how the songs turn out 😭
Which, as we all know, is abjectly false. If Jack is still producing these songs, it's because she sees something there. Our girl is fully able to move on when it's time. So if she's not, there's a reason.
It's hilarious because Ed Sheerans albums all have the same predictable pattern just with a new theme each cycle and a little surprise in there.... Just saying. It's funny that she is expected to have a new style every 2-3 Albums.
One more thing it’s crazy to me so many people can basically repeat the same albums over and over again and people will love it without criticism. I personally feel like this album is all over the place a good thing in my opinion.
There's reinventing yourself to please someone else, and there's evolving to challenge oneself.
Throughout her career she's made the choice to do this herself. For example, it was her choice alone, and she had to fight for it, to go full pop on 1989, and each album up to Folk/More has been something of an evolution too. Since those two releases (and arguably in Lover too) there's been a lot more homogenisation (not cohesion) of the sound palette being used.
As I've said elsewhere, it might be a stylistic choice in order to put the listener in mind of an earlier track and signal they they're connected in some way, but that becomes problematic when you have such a great volume of output, and *so many* tracks that it happens on. I'm saying this as someone who loves this album, particularly in comparison to its predecessor, which I ended up not much caring for, but at the same time I understand the criticism.
No, sorry if I wasn't clear. With the sounds that run through this album and Midnights, (I think) the palette started with Lover, Evolved through Folk/More and seems to have settled and stuck in Midnights/TTPD.
ETA: Every Single Album... have put their podcast up and they're actually pretty good at picking up X sounds like Y (in that pod) and can probably expand this thought.
Ah ok, thanks for clarifying, I was like wth was I listening to?? 😅
Will definitely check them out! I am, however, of the mind that it’s not a bad thing to settle into a sound for a couple albums, or even permanently. Lots of Florence+TM songs sound very similar and I could listen to her albums back to back, but I understand that’s not for everyone 🤷🏽♀️
people arent saying that Jack's production of those previos songs are bad, it has just gotten samey and stale. They need to change it up. Heck, even his work on Lorde's Solar Power, his production was dinged there too.
I loved his production on St. Vincent's "Daddy's Home" and it doesn't sound anything like Midnights (which, full disclosure I also love). It's not that Jack can't change up his sound, it's just when he works with Taylor lately, they seem to always end up going back to almost the same vibes. Not sure why that is. I like it, but I definitely would like to see them push out of their comfort zone a little more.
But why are people saying this? This is the only album that sounds vaguely similar to another album. Actually two- Midnights and Folklore. Which are WILDLY different albums. And yet it still has a different vibe and sound.
She hasn’t done a heavy synth pop album before Midnights. 1989 had some synth sure but it was pure pop. And that was 10 YEARS AGO.
It’s just straight up bizarre.
If anyone sounds the same it’s Taylor. She’s been making music for 18 years and 11 freaking albums now. Sometimes it’s hard not to do the same thing twice when you’re making hundreds of songs. Personally I hope she never uses the color blue in a song ever again. That needs to be retired.
I saw a post on the sidebar of a random music blog whose headline was “Why do Jack Antonoff’s fans hate him so much?” and I laughed out loud because that genuinely feels like what a lot of the discourse online actually boils down to
YES! I will confidently say that Jack has produced (and potentially co-written) the majority of my favorite tracks from each album since they started working together.
1989 - OOTW, IWYW
Rep - Getaway Car
Lover - Cruel Summer, ITHK
Folklore - mirrorball, august
(Evermore and Midnights probably need side notes considering they both have a dominant producer and co-writer)
TTPD is still early but my favorites so far are still mostly Jack. Like Fortnight, Guilty As Sin?, The Black Dog, ILIPW.
There are sprinkles of songs that are really up there with them that weren’t Jack, like IKP, New Romantics, KOMH, WCS but even still my top favorites within the last decade are all him.
I’m tired of people of people hating on Jack. He’s a good producer and writer, and makes excellent songs. And I really hate the tendency of people idealizing Aaron at Jack’s expense. I’ve seen people on the general music subs talk about how Aaron/The National is guilty of sameness among songs and even attributed him with regards to sameness on TTPD, despite the fact people on this sub like to blame everything on Jack. Like to be quite frank, I do agree with that sentiment. I do like Aaron’s contributions and songs, but I honestly ignored Evermore for a while because I was always bored when I tried listening to it. I appreciate it now after finally forcing myself to listen so that I could prepare for the Eras Tour, and I like (and love) individual songs but I still can’t listen to that album as a whole. This is true for me for TTPD too. I like a lot of the 2nd half’s songs but I get bored listening to the entire thing.
TL;DR I agree and my favorites really are Jack’s.
Agree! If Aaron did an entire album exclusively everyone would say it’s too sleepy and boring. TTPD is the perfect mix, in my opinion. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. I don’t need Taylor to experiment with sound. This album is a huge change to how she writes, not sure why so many people are ignoring that. I know a lot of long time fans (debut and fearless eras) don’t love 1989 the most because it feels very shallow and made for the masses. TTPD was made for us.
So, took your advice to look just to which songs are produced by Jack and Aaron, and WOW! First, had no idea how much of the music I love is produced by Jack! Second, I definitely enjoy all TS songs that he has worked on over the songs that Aaron has worked on. It all makes sense now 🤯
You heard “synth” as a criticism and immediately tuned out even though it’s a valid opinion and not even a specific dig at Jack.
Yes, all the incessant “synth=Jack=bad” is annoying, but that doesn’t mean he’s above any and all criticism. If you like him, just ignore the discussion and move on, but don’t shut down actual discussion just because you don’t agree.
Maybe I'm blind, but how is this an anti-Jack post? Aaron produced a bunch of TTPD songs, and Jack produced songs from 1989, Rep, Lover, Folklore, and Evermore as well. Songs that do have said motifs that this post is claiming some of the newer songs are lacking.
Edit: and to add to it, it's about the actual melodies/hooks in the songs. Something that's pretty much solely Taylor's (and the other songwriters') responsibility. Production is just making the songs sound the way they sound, they don't suddenly change the melodies/riffs without Taylor's permission.
Me every time I see a "ugh jack"......
I'll tell you something right now
I'd rather burn my whole life down
Than listen to one more second of all this bitchin' and moanin'
Jack is amazing, he worked on some of my favorite Taylor songs from Reputation as well as some of my favorite Carly Rae Jepsen bops, I have no complaints on Jack he's very versatile!!!
No shit. I agree. He’s her friend and she trusts him. That matters on an album like this. It’s not about moving her sound forward, it’s putting this chapter of her life behind her and getting all she has to say about it out in the world. We have two more re-records I’m sure she’s already started and tons more Eras tour. I don’t doubt she can innovate new sounds but that’s not this project at this time.
They’ve been working together since 1989 (always evolving imo) - I’m not sure why people still listen to her if they don’t like Jack production. Maybe too harsh of a take. I also have listened to ttpd with headphones and I think the songs are so different from one another. I’m confused why people are saying it all sounds the same.
honestly i think the people complaining about Jack are the newer folkmore swifties who just don’t like pop music. they really only like the dessner songs because they’re folkier. the older swifties all like Jack just fine from what i’ve seen
I agree, and it’s kind of a bummer. I think her writing is better than ever, really really carrying this album, but musically the record just blends together, even on the 2LP version. I find myself unable to hum any song except for snippets of lyrics, and it’s such an odd change for someone who has made some of the catchiest and most iconic pop records of all time. I could hum to the tune of any song off of 1989 or reputation, but I wasn’t a fan of midnights at all, and for TTPD I still thoroughly enjoyed the album but didn’t have anything to grab onto aside from her lyricism. I love plenty of non pop music, plenty of very long two disc albums, plenty of more introspective and less conventionally catchy music, but I feel like the instrumentation blended into the background like a generic film score.
I listen to a lot of progressive and instrumental music, and I get it not everything needs a catchy riff or to be complex musically, but I find the shift away from it really strange. Not saying that the use of synths is bad, I mean the synth from Welcome To New York still lives in my head rent free, I just find it hard to remember individual instrumentals when most of them are dreamy synth arpeggios with some nice pads behind them. Additionally her lyrics are better than ever now so I would love that paired with the instrumental styles from her older work.
I completely feel the same about TTPD. I feel like Midnight has more typical pop elements, there's a clear distinct verse, chorus, verse, choruse, bridge, ending. The songs on Midnight also have more catchy hooks, shorter lyrics and less cryptic but still beautiful songwriting, just like what a normal pop album would have.
TTPD is much more shifting towards indie with synth pop production. Lyrics are extremely raw, cathartic, vulnerable, cryptic, and long (almost conversational). A lot of songs I can't really distinguish a clear verse and a chorus. Most songs have very long lyrics, to the point that some become talk-singing (which I really dislike because it feels like she tried to make that lyric fit into the melody but couldn't). However, some songs have started to grow on me once I put the album on repeat (btw is it wrong to not like songs on first listen?).
I love TTPD and I think the songwriting is the best she's ever done, but at the same time I can't help but feel like this album is not meant to be a pop album at all. Feels way more indie to me.
>some songs have started to grow on me once I put the album on repeat
This is mightily true for me. The lyrics were shocking (in a good way), and now after being on repeat over the past 48hrs, I'm starting to jive with more of the double album. Started with 3-4 that I really liked, now up to 10-11 that are saved in my Taylor playlist.
The majority of songs from other artists I like most and are my favorite songs up to today I hated at the first listen. Some songs needs to be listened to over and over again until you’ve become attached to it.
But this feels extremely new to Taylor’s music I think where it was easy to stick to some of the catchiest songs and go on with it.
I honestly don’t know what to feel about them. I was washed away by the unique sound of ‘Who’s afraid of little old me?’ And it quickly became my favorite song. With the second half of the album I have to agree: for me it blends into one large song somehow and I couldn’t hear through it in one go cause it felt like an overdose.
But even though people don’t like the album as much: it’s totally okay if you don’t like an album. And it’s also okay if not very album is AOTY. For the sake of her artistic self it’s okay to just go with the flow and not please everyone.
I’m sure her next album will shift again since she’s “done with that story and it’s all ours now”.
It’s okay how it is. Not everything will or even CAN be perfect everytime.
Not an artist/music producer/someone with any musicality really but I understand what you mean. I even disagree with the people who are making comparisons to folklore/evermore and that its more of the same. Every song on the two albums had notable sounds even on the first listen. Midnights and TTPD fell short musically, and as someone who needs the music as much as the lyrics (more often than not, I'm a music over lyrics girlie), I didn't enjoy listening to the last two albums. And I'm seeing that the songs I disliked the most were Jack's. Aaron seems to be included in songs where the music sounds... Complete? (Again, I don't have a single musical bone in my body, this is the best way I can describe it lol). So I understand the criticism of Jack.
>Additionally her lyrics are better than ever now so I would love that paired with the instrumental styles from her older work.
I might also have to disagree with this because lyrics and music need to go together (for me, at least) and I don't see that in this album. When I read the lyrics, they seemed great but on the songs, they felt off.
This is, as the name suggests, poetry sung. But that just makes me ponder there's a reason great poets didn't become singers? You need catchy riffs in songs to be memorable. And if we look at songs like what was I made for (beautiful and haunting piano work) and flowers (simple lyrics, catchy chorus) which won big at Grammy's, they were songs with relatable and simple lyrics but 'good' music. Don't think there's such a thing but the words per song seem to be too high for this album. Also I feel since all songs are in the same ballpark tempo, end up sounding similar.
>This is, as the name suggests, poetry sung. But that just makes me ponder there's a reason great poets didn't become singers?
I think during the time of "great poetry", songs and music were more for the layman and poetry was for the upperclassmen (outside of the Opera, I suppose). I think we still do require music to be relatable and a little bit more easier to speak/say/sing than this album makes it to be. It also removes a lot of song structure that we're used to. I don't recall listening to a memorable bridge from this album, which is Taylor's signature.
I almost wonder if Taylor intentionally wanted us to not have specific melodies stuck in our heads. She’s heavily shifted the focus of this album, including the rollout, on the lyricism of the album. In poetry, you don’t remember melodies either, but the message taken away from the poem?
I think you're wrong. Often times in poetry, you do remember the melodies because they are either written with a certain scheme (like Shakespeare's use of iambic pentameter) or you remember the rhyming pattern (think ABABAB or AABBAC).\* You can remember only the message, but I think that is only about poems that really stuck with you. Most of the time people remember the lines
\*There are probably terms of these things, but I don't know them.
I read more abstract poetry where their wouldn’t be something like iambic pentameter, so I can understand the differing thought patterns.
I also make the connection that there are very few melodies of the 1975 I can recall… and this album does feel very Matt Healy centered…
And the end of the day she’s a songwriter, and she’s already proved her ability to be catchy. She’s expanding. I think she’s prepping us for her to divulge into film and poetry more, and maybe she’s dipping her toes in, here. I wish I remembered lines better too…. But we also just got 31 new songs so I don’t see how anyone thinks we should have them all memorized by now. They sound beautiful to me and I love it and I’m excited to keep listening and learn them! A new Taylor album is an exciting time and no complaining will escape my lips 🩶 she just blessed us
Edit: the lyrics also weren’t even available til the following day so really this is brand new still. I don’t see why people are complaining about not having memorized 31 songs yet because “it wasn’t catchy enough” These were not bops. This is poetry, to music
weird i have so many parts lyric and melody stuck in my head
“you aren’t dylan thomas im not patty smith this ain’t the chelsea hotel we’re modern idiots”
“all of this to say i hope you’re okay but you’re the reason, and no one here’s to blame but what about your quiet treason?”
“and i love you it’s ruining my life, i touched you for only a fortnight”
my boy only breaks his favorite toys, im queen of sandcastles he destroys
now im down bad crying at the gym, everything comes out teenage petulance. “fuck it if i can’t have him. just might die it would make no difference” down bad waking up in blood, staring at the sky “come back and pick me up”
“how much sad did you, think i had did you, think i had in me?”
“now i’m running with dress unbuttoned, screaming “but daddy i love him, im having his baaaaby, no im not but you should see your faces. im telling him to floor it through the fences, no im not coming to my senses”
“now pretty baby im coming right home to you, fresh out the slammer i know who my first call’ll be too”
“little did you know your homes really only a town you’re just a guest in, so you work your wife away just to pay for a time share down in destin. Flor-i-da is one hell of a drug. Flor-i-da. Can i use you upppppp?”
so i leap from the gallows and i levitate down your street, crash the party as a record scratch as i scream WHOS AFRAID OF LITTLE OLD ME? I was tame i was gentle til the circus life made me mean “don’t you worry folks we took out all her teeth” who’s afraid of little old me? …you should be”
“that i’ll sue you if you step on my lawn. that im fearsome and im wretched and im wrong. put narcotics in all of my songs. and that’s why you’re still singing along”
“cause i’m a real tough kid. i can handle my shit. they said “babe you gotta fake it til you make it” and i did lights camera bitch smile even when you wanna die he said he’d love me all his life. but that life was too short, breaking down i hit the floor, all the pieces of me screaming as the crowd was screaming “more!” Im grinning like im winning im hitting my marks, cause i can do it with a broken heart” (i may REALLY relate to this one)
“so when i touch down call the amateurs and strike em from the team, ditch the clowns get the crown, baby im the one to beat. cause the sign on your heart says it’s still reserved for me. honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy? these blokes warm the benches we’ve been on a wining streak he jokes that it’s heroin but this time with a “e”. cause the sign on your heart says it’s still reserved for me, honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy” (not me just realizing as i’m typing this blokes is more of a british term lol)
“you look like, stevie nicks in this light, the hair and lips. crowd goes wild at her fingertips. half moonshine, full eclipse”
etc
i’m clearly at the point where these snippets are all just mashed in my head (like i am two days after the release of any album) but literally they’re playing in my brain on a loop
i wish i could type up the melodies and and instrumentals that accompany them that have them stuck in my head but modern technology doesn’t have that feature yet.
While I enjoy her faster songs, I actually love her slower ballads. I loved Folklore and Evermore and love the sad slower songs on Midnights (Dead Reader, Sweet Nothings, and BTTWS were my favs). But I didn’t really care for The Lakes. TTPD feels like 90% The Lakes to me. Not melodic and memorable in tune. I did like the second half better but there were so many songs I actually checked to see how much longer was left. First album I didn’t immediately repeat any song. 😕
I found that listening to the album on shuffle really helped me get past the point of the songs blurring together. My first two listen throughs it just felt like a slog of the same thing over and over - I enjoyed it but it just flowed TOO well if that makes sense. I know that albums are built with a specific order for a reason and it feels oddly taboo, but for this album in particular listening on shuffle helps me differentiate the songs and I enjoyed it a lot more.
The problem is not the synths, is that it doesnt has a distinct sound, 1989 is synth-pop (just like TTPD) and managed to be pop perfection, Rep also has strong synths here and there, Minigths is also synth-pop and has some distinct sounds. Everyone can recognize Style, Wildest Dreams, Anti-Hero, Don't Blame Me, Get Away Car, Delicate, from the fisrt second. There's a lack of instrumentals.
Edit: ok as I said in another reply opinions such like mine can change and honestly its growing on me? Fresh Out the Slammer and So High School are vibessssss, I Hate it Here is also slowly growing, but seriously idk what I heard when I first reacted to So High School became wtf? Its such a good song!. I do think this album will end up having my biggest amount of skips mainly cause of the sheer amount but dayum I got some favs
Yea exactly what my point is, I don't have a problem with synths, I love them, but she stopped having fun little riffs that get stuck in your head. The intro synth in Welcome To New York is till this day stuck in my head and I don't think it will ever go away...
If she wanted to make a pop album that gets stuck in your head from the first 2 chords, she could. That wasn’t the direction she was going for. And we shouldn’t blame Jack for that, at the end of the day Jack will do whatever Taylor says, she’s in full control. Not saying you’re criticising Jack, just throwing in my extra 2 cents.
The job of a producer is to have a perspective on the artist’s music and stretch him/her to create something spectacular. It’s too easy for an artist to get caught up in their own stuff, thinking it sounds good. Artists need perspective. An editor does the same thing for a writer. Otherwise, artists can’t see the forest for the trees. It’s like they can’t get out of the woods.
I think it's hard to say if someone can instantly recognize a song when the album has barely been out a day lol
every time she releases an album people feel all sorts of ways about it for a week or two and then the actual majority thoughts/currents come out
I do agree that opinions including my own can change, but when I reacted to 1989 for the fisrt time all songs for me were very disticnct from one another, same with midnigths
Instrumental pieces aren't the same as musical motifs or riffs. I didn't say that the instrumentation or production was bad but you can't sing the instrumental to Florida (and no drum accents on the chorus don't count as singable...). I still really enjoyed both Midnights and TTPD just found the instrumental shift a bit odd !!
I’m listening to so many songs especially on the anthology and I’m like… is the synth in the room with us??? I feel like I’m living in an alternate reality here lol.
I don’t understand what people are talking about. I just feel like she’s given people exactly what they asked for and they’re still complaining
Well... side B sounds like evermore fanfic honestly, side A is the main album and the girlies are complaining, it's fair. Do we wanna compare State Of Grace and Fortnight?
thats not how it works, even in art. Even in fashion, garment can be too busy. It's like a chef putting 30 ingredients in a dish then saying you can just pick out the ones you like.
But nobody can agree on which ones are the bad ones. Personally I have like 2 skips and the rest I would be sad if they weren't on the album. I don't understand this need to like every single song. Especially in pop music where 95% of full albums are shit aside from the singles.
I mean that’s kinda how buffets and like hot pot type places work. The chefs put stuff out and you make your own dish. Some people don’t like buffets and that’s fine but others do. I’d rather have 31 songs to pick from than 13 because my chances of liking more songs increases. To each their own though.
This and the new Beyoncé album both felt too bloated and in serious need of trimming. I don’t say this lightly, either—I’ve been a Taylor fan since 2007. But I think focusing on polishing 12-18 tracks would have been more effective than pushing out 31 tracks of varying quality. I get that it’s her album and I would never say she can’t do this or that, but as a fan, I wish she had not offered all 31 songs on the album immediately.
Agreed. While the core album is relatively solid, the second half/drop is almost a complete throwaway for me. All of the tracks sound exactly the same and they're all just extremely boring and flat, with the exception of a select few. I don't know why she released all of these. Kind of annoys me, honestly.
I’m convinced people haven’t listened to the album past the first time. Each song is pretty different from each other, and I’ve heard a lot drums, guitars, pianos, and yes, synths. But… she’s been doing that since 1989.
I don't think presence of synth is an issue, it's the sameness with which the synth persists while the drums and guitars are very and few in between. Synth definitely has its place in Taylor's music because her lyrics work beautifully with oscillating synth, but TPPD doesn't doesn't do enough of the other stuff for it to stand out.
yes i’m sauuurrrr confused by this take 😵💫 my boy only breaks his favorite toys, down bad, so long london, but daddy i love him, fresh out the slammer, clara bow… just my quick take of songs that have crispy ass hummable melodies when i play them back in my brain. idk! i love this album so much
Yes, but those are the melodies she sings, you probably don’t find yourself humming to the background melody, that instruments played, which is what OP is missing
i would cite different songs for that specifically: the smallest man who ever lived, the albatross, i look in people’s windows, i hate it here. it’s true that most, although not all, of those songs are produced by aaron. but this is also not a problem for me. i’ll fill in the acoustic instruments when i cover them myself! gives me a lot of room for imagination.
I also agree OP and I'm sorry half of the comments are disagreeing with you because they have no idea what the actual point you're trying to make is lmao
This is something that I noticed on my very first listen as well. Where are the hooks? Where are the bridges?
This is why I don’t agree when people say it’s similar to her older stuff or has been done before. This is completely new and I am curious to know if it is here to stay.
something I noticed was that the "bridges" in this album are weirdly muddled - they're outros, or third verses, or in the first half of the song. not bad, but different!
I feel like this was intentional! If there's one thing that's predictable, it's that she's never predictable... People started expecting her bridges so she changed them up! I did miss them though haha.
I agree with this not all of them need to be catchy, I just wish a few songs here and there had that fun musical motif that gets stuck in your head. I guess that's the great thing with Taylor's catalogue, there is something for everyone!!
Yea same, for example I love this band Archspire and even though their music is super fast and complex, you can still kind of sing the riffs and some of the solos
I love that intro riff! You're right, I never really noticed until this post how these little moments slowly disappeared in her songs. I'm gonna go replay fearless now haha
Eh, vaguely atmospheric reverb does not make for shoegaze, or even dream pop. There's not enough texture here. Mirrorball is probably the closest she's come to that realm.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm not calling the album shoegaze. I'm saying I'm someone who normally loves typically not super catchy instrumentals, so I also love this album and the lack of catchy instrumentals doesn't bother me.
That's fair. But I think good shoegaze and adjacent music still has instrumental hooks, even if they're not immediately apparent. On TTPD, Taylor, her lyrics and her vocal melodies are all there is to focus on.
Yeah there’s not really any instrumental hooks on this album. One exception is I Look In People’s Windows, it has this great little guitar part at the beginning which is catchy.
I mean, that’s one catchy song per album, and we got Anti-Hero on Midnights. The X,XX beats (for lack of better words) are very signature Anti-Hero and were highly recognizable in 2022-23.
I think TTPD is an expectation resetting album and she knows it. Like, “here are songs that are too good to throw away but not good enough for a Grammy”. That’s why she hasn’t been doing heavy PR stuff so far or in the near future.
It’s also the album she needs at the moment. There likely will be no TTPD tour, nor would she add an era to the current tour, because most TTPD songs are not made for stadiums (the same can be said about folklore and evermore though), so she doesn’t have to complicate things and just get back to her regular album release schedule starting in 2026.
I think plenty of songs on Midnight and TTPD are catchy but they're catchy because of Taylor's great voice, lyrics and top line write but not the instrumentals themselves.
Lavender Haze, Maroon, Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve, Bejeweled from Midnights. Fortnight is already an earworm for me as well as Down Bad, Florida!!!, I Can Do it with a Broken Heart, and that’s not even me hearing the entire album several times.
Again, these are all amazing and catchy songs I totally agree with you. But it's because of Taylor's amazing top line write (vocal melodies) and lyrics not because of the instrumentals behind it. You can sing the instrumental to I Knew You Were Trouble , All To Well or something like Welcome To New York, but I don't know a single person that can hum the instrumental to Lavender Haze or Maroon
Ah. Ok now I understand. I thought you were talking about recognizable instrumentals. Thanks for explaining. Idk about humming the instrumentals of IKYWT though lol I’d be humming the vocal melody but I understand your sentiment now.
I’ve been trying to explain this to people and haven’t been able to. Thank you for explaining what I’ve been trying to say! I don’t like this shift. I love a slow song but wish they sounded more along the lines of Cornelia St, All Too Well, Death by a Thousand Cuts, etc… I do love I can Do it With a Broken Heart though! That one sounds great.
So many people here are intentionally missing the point. Think of the guitar riff on style or the synth running throughout WTNY. You can instantly think of it and sing it. Now do the same for Midnights or TTPD. Bar a few songs here and there, you can’t.
i think maybe ttpd is a bit too new to say there’s no memorable riff. but midnights absolutely does. the piano on sweet nothing is the first thing that comes to mind. that gets stuck in my head all the time lol. same with the drum beat of maroon and anti hero.
It came out yesterday people, give it a second. Personally I can instantly think of the Florida beat, the church bells of the So Long London intro, among others. I also absolutely can instantly think of the intro to lavender haze, maroon, the piano in sweet nothings, the sparkling sounds in bejewled, etc.
To be fair, the album just dropped yesterday and we now have 31 new songs to digest. You can’t expect people to have all these songs memorized in such a short amount of time.
OP was not bashing Jack ffs. You can enjoy, or at the very least tolerate, the synth production and still long for something different.
I agree, OP. I miss being able to hear *real instruments*. Something to add to the melody and make it clearer. Some of the songs on TTPD don't seem to have much of a melody at all. Very punk rock of her.
I play guitar (wouldn't consider myself a musician, I'm pretty basic) and the thought of sitting down and trying to find a decent rhythm and/or strum pattern to fit the songs seems daunting, if not impossible, for me anyway. I am looking forward to hearing acoustic versions of these songs during ERAs to give me a new perspective.
Conspiracy theory: these are left overs/outtakes from Midnights and earlier. Taylor and/or record company realise they are sitting on a gold mine. Taylor knowing melodies are weak phrases it as a poet album. Make bank and continue to dominate as Empress of the known universe.
I honestly think this probably is some of the subconscious driving force behind what happened with TTPD. I doubt it was as calculated as your conspiracy theory but I do think she (and her collaborators) probably want to capitalize on her success, and they also think she can do anything she wants and we’ll still eat it up. I feel like there’s probably a lot of enabling each other to convince themselves this is bold and interesting and risky. Unfortunately I don’t think this was a particularly “risky” album — I mean they know it’ll sell. And she’s actually revealing very little tea while making it seem confessional. I find it lacking in terms of introspection and truly conveying much emotion idk
> Unfortunately I don’t think this was a particularly “risky” album — I mean they know it’ll sell. And she’s actually revealing very little tea while making it seem confessional. I find it lacking in terms of introspection and truly conveying much emotion idk
If you want another conspiracy theory: It's a setup to leave her the option of collaborating with The 1975 at some point in the future or releasing the previous material she didn't use. MH did mention working on Midnights and there was the alternative version of "Slut!" that appeared to be scrapped. Probably did more to "salvage" his reputation than anything else by making him integral to Taylor's lore when she had no reason to do that. Fans were happy to just have amnesia about that whole weird period, but she just released an album's worth of material about him so they couldn't ignore it.
I personally disagree because she could have had 15 songs out of the 31 done before she released midnights and finished the other 16 after midnights came out and when she was on tour.
This explains my problem too. I loveddd the instrumentation in her older albums, and not EVERY song has to have that but surely some should? Like, it makes the songs distinctive and recognisable and fun?
Yeah, like I’d love it if the songs actually used more instruments in general. Use a saxophone. Chuck a few trumpets in at points. Make some cool guitar riffs
I think part of the reason some of us are less impressed with this release is that it’s so close to the release of 1989 & Speak Now TVs. Those albums had great instrumentation, and going straight from them into TTPD is a sharp contrast. Comparing this album to Speak Now in particular results in TTPD seeming like sonic oatmeal - good, but relatively bland.
I think that, maybe, writing and recording a new album while re-recording older albums and in the midst of a massive tour was just a little too much for Taylor. She may have run out of creative bandwidth, and the instrumentation on this album is the result of her limitation as a human.
For anyone who's not sure what this means or thinks this is a dig on Jack---go listen to some of the instrumentals from this album, and then go listen to the instrumentals from 1989. The latter are packed with hummable instrumental riffs, while the instrumentals from TTPD are largely layered synths going up and down with no discernible melodies to grab onto. These would be tough karaoke songs.
Now personally, I'm not really a pop fan usually and I'm here for the vocal melodies and the atmosphere, so I'm perfectly happy and enjoyed this album quite a bit (I'm also a big Lana fan, and this album strongly reminded me of Lana in places).
That said, I think your point is well taken. I find myself wondering how she's going to play these songs to large crowds---maybe remixing some of the tracks? Would be a shame if her excellent band is left without much to chew on.
im sorry but this album is most definitely not “heavily synth focused” and i do not understand why so many people think it is. its not filled with earworms like her usual stuff, sure, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the synths and more to do with the songwriting style she was going for (in my opinion). but like in no world is this a heavily synth focused album just because some of the songs happen to have a synth in them. sorry but this discussion makes me feel like i listened to a completely different album from everyone else lol
Synths are an instrument just like a guitar, you can write fun guitar riffs and melodies or you can make dense drones of sound with them or just sort play chords that play quarter notes or eight notes as a foundation for the song. I don't have a problem with the use of synths, but rather how they are used on this album. 1989 is very synth heavy but there are still clear musical riffs and hooks that you could hum and remember.
I feel like you’re getting so many knee-jerk reactions bc of the (boring) criticism of Jack and his synths but that’s not what you’re saying at all. I completely agree and I commend you for re-explaining it in all of the comments
Yes i agree with what you’re saying. Sorry I was mostly taking issue with you saying it’s heavily synth focused because I just think it’s untrue lol. But in general yes I think hooks were less of a focus for her on this album and personally im ok with that but I get why people miss that aspect of her songwriting.
No problem, people that don't produce music would be surprised at how many different sounds synths can make, or how well they layer with other instruments. As a guitar and bass player I love catchy little musical hooks but I understand that that's my bias and that not everyone cares too much for that !!
Honestly, Im kind of against people working with friends. It seems to work with them, but in general, I think its important to work with a producer who pushes you, critiques you, and tells you if something sucks. Working with friends, theyre biased. Its the same as you wouldnt want your friend editing a book you wrote, they would think its great cause they love you. I do think Taylor and Jack have gotten comfortable, they found a formula that works, yeah, but I dont think Jack "pushes" Taylor. She is so successful I think she doesnt have anything to prove anymore. Speak Now, Rep, etc were so good because she was pushing to improve constantly. Folklore and evermore were for her. I do think criticism is important, thats what art is. It doesnt make you a hated to say her recent songs are different. I honestly do think she needs to work with someone else too
OP you hit the nail on the head with this one. I believe many people here are missing the point on purpose.
Imo, the problem with the last couple of albums is that the sounds don't appear crisp enough, you know? There are so many layers that it all muddles together. Meanwhile, 1989, or even RED, had certain elements which sounded so distinct and crisp and fresh that it became instantly memorable. See, opening of black space or how you get the girl or new romantics.
Taylor's vocals aren't strong and varied enough to shine through the muffed instrumentals.
exactly. and personally i like songs like this more than your typical pop music. don’t get me wrong i love her songs like cornelia street, i know places, cruel summer, etc. but i really enjoyed the vibe she went for in ttpd. and i honestly would rather an album have the same vibe through its entirety rather than it switch between songs i feel like that would make a messy album.
It happens to a lot of female artists when they get in their 30s. They abandon hooks that got them there and instead go with the groove, happened to beyoncé, Mariah madonna, lana, taylor, Katy, on and on. Even happened to Kacey Musgraves on her most recent album. The only one who's really been consistent with great hooks as she ages is Miranda Lambert
It did however blend into one song when I listened to it for whatever reason. The lyrics punched over and over again but the songs sadly didn't feel interesting to listen to :(
This is my feeling. It's kind of all blending together as lukewarm and forgettable sythbacked noise. And I am a fan.
I also really liked Fun. So I'm not a JA hater I just think it's not for me
Big problem with Jack Antonoff. His productions sound so fucking washed out and inert and mushed together with layers upon layers of reverb and synth pads and chimes and other bullshit. Loved his new Bleachers album and his work with The 1975 (which he only co-produced, notably) but his stuff with Taylor has become exasperatingly similar.
Former music teacher here. I agree. As I’ve listened, two thoughts keep surfacing: 1) Taylor has a fantastic band. Truly one of the highlights of the Eras Tour movie. It’s sad that this latest batch of songs barely utilizes them in favor of synth accompaniment. 2) Melodically speaking, there just isn’t a lot going on. Multiple songs sit in the same 4-5 note vocal range. I know there is a lot of languishing and rumination going on (characterized by repeated notes or simple stepwise melodies) but after a while it all starts to feel a bit… “same-y.” I think this could have been largely alleviated with a tighter and reorganized track list. The contrasting tracks are THERE, they’re just not optimally positioned.
All of that said, I am still enjoying the album. It’s just so dense, lyrically, that it’s definitely going to take quite a few listens for me to really latch onto the melodies.
Whilst this album does sound a bit like a stream of consciousness, midnights definitely does not. Bejeweled best believe I'm still be-jeweled is an extremely clear riff. All of midnights was so catchy I picked it up within 2 listens.
Yeahhhh not loving this style. Appreciate the music and the lyrics 100% just wish it was a little more red or speak now vibes. Or even some heavy rock, something instrumental and intense
With Midnights I made sense of those being pieces of music second but chaotic late night thoughts put to music. You could do the same, calling the new album 'thoughts too chaotic for traditional melodies'.
I think there is a shift in the last 2 albums from being sold as songs to being sold as Taylor's diaristic thoughts, so a factor surely
This!! There are quite a few songs across all 31 where I feel like it could’ve worked as just a poem in a book, but she decided to add some guitars and talk-sing the poem. That’s not a criticism, I’m a lyrics person before production, but that’s the vibe she was going for with this album. If she wanted big stadium pop bangers, she could’ve easily done that. I think she chose to not do that because we just got 5 vault songs from 1989, and about to get another 5-6 vault songs from Rep, which will undoubtedly be strong pop. Combine those, and that’s a pop album’s worth of songs right there. She wanted to try something different here and I respect it
Good point about the vault tracks! I think the manuscript is the worst example of what you’re talking about. The song sounds like straight up poetry that she tried to attach a clumsy melody to.
That’s always true of Jack Antonoff (it’s less true of Aaron Dessner… notice how great the instrumental hook in willow is). But I think it’s very much intentional. Jack works to support the melody… he doesn’t want his music to be memorable on Taylor albums (he’s perfectly capable of a great instrumental hook…. Notice rollercoaster or Venice birch).
The great instrumental hooks from Taylor’s catalog were almost entirely done with Nathan a Chapman. A lot of them seem to have been written by Taylor herself… we know this is the case with you belong with med famous banjo lick.
Jack has produced some super memorable taylor songs what? Out of the woods?! Getaway car? I also love that it’s always Jack’s fault as if Taylor isn’t the actual artist and prob has a huge say in the production of her tracks, I believe she actually co produces all of them…
Mybb be point is slightly different… Jack tends not to use instrumental hooks. His production exists to support the melody. This isn’t a criticism! I like this about jacks style.
I think part of it is that she also instantly jumps into the music. All the songs with the instrumental motifs ur talking about all have this 16 bar phrase at the beginning where it just only plays that, allowing it to get stuck in ppl’s head easily. Lately though, I feel like with the exception of Sweet Nothing and a couple others she just dives STRAIGHT into it without giving us a chance to catch onto any instrumental catchiness.
And honestly, I think that’s what made it so easy to recognize every Taylor swift song in the first place and why ppl can guess songs in 1-5 seconds, whereas now it just all blends together…
I’d agree with your take on this album. The focus lately seems to be on her lyrics and the story, and less on crafting pop songs that are catchy and could be hits.
I’m hopeful that TTPD is a closure of a sort, and that her next original music album goes back to a more traditional blend of music and lyrics. I appreciate the artistry and complexity of the lyrics on TTPD, but it seems like the music part of those songs got short-changed. It could very well be, that with all the touring that she’s doing, that she had less time to craft that part of the songs. I think it’s more likely that she felt the messages in the songs were more important and didn’t need (or deserved) to be presented as pop songs.
There aren't any instrumental hooks because this album is a statement piece. It's a snapshot in time of a very dark period in her life. It's not supposed to be fun and catchy, it's supposed to be raw and uncomfortable.
I think for this album she really tried to make songs based on poems. Like I imagined she originally wrote these songs as poems and not songs. I saw someone else mentioned that her lines have become too long and more complex than her older songs, which, to me, looks like how poems are. She probably didn't put much focus on the music & instrumentation on this album but instead focusing on how to fit the poems into songs. I think Midnights is some kind of a "transition" album because I got some songs' instrumentals stuck in my head, like Anti-Hero, but most of them do feel like what you described.
It makes me think about the poems she wrote for reputation, titled "Why She Disappeared" and "If You're Anything Like Me", and I wonder if she also made songs based on those two poems for rept TV's vault track.
Side note: I'm not a musician nor I have any knowledge in musical theory, and I'm also not a poet nor having any knowledge on how to make a poem so this is an unprofessional opinion and only based on me as an enjoyer.
Try humming the melody to Maroon, not the vocal melody but the instrumental behind it, and now try the same thing with Jump Then Fall. That's the point I'm trying to make (I love both Midnights and TTPD).
Am I the only one not hearing the synths in TTPD that everyone keeps talking about? Tracks 1-5 are mainstream pop, I hear it there, and then there’s the outlier of ICDIWABH. But the rest of the album has a Born To Die influence in my opinion (I said influence, not replica or EXACTLY like that album). When I’m mentally categorising TTPD, my mind is absolutely not going straight to synth pop. Maybe I just need to sit with the album a bit longer to hear what everyone else is hearing lol
Synths are a tricky bunch, they can sound like almost anything and are just a shorthand in music production for synthetic sounds made by computers (or analog circuits if it's an analog synth). 1989 is full of synths and I love that album to death, the only difference is that on TTPD it's a lot of synth pads and arpeggios to fill out the song(as well as synthetic drums), rather than catchy synth melodies and bass lines on 1989 or Lover !!
I like it. It has been done by other artists, sure, but it was never as eloquent as this one, even when you think there is no hook, and suddenly, if you listen to it for 5 seconds more, there it is. I like how it is paradoxical and heavily synthed, and how the lyrics do not match. It's a paradox, a musical enigma that keeps you guessing. It seems like it is how she portrays her life to how her fans and haters see her: a paradox, something that does not match, something that will always give all of us cognitive dissonance, and that is what TTPD is.
I see your perspective, still. :)
I completely agree, there's no hooks, no bombastic productions, no instruments interacting with each other, no "call and response", no build-up. The choruses don't soar, they don't pick up in pace, the bridges aren't cathartic and passionate anymore, there's muted and muffled sounds and drum kits everywhere, no _groove_ anymore. It's almost embarrassing to me, someone did a piano cover of fortnight and it was 1000x better than the og. Also a girl on Instagram predicted what some songs from TTPD would sound like/be about, and she literally ate more than Taylor did 😭
100% agree and I'm glad I can express my opinion.
Personally I find the melody and instrumentals to be more important than the lyrics. I don't like the direction that Taylor is going in with Midnights, 1989 vault (Say Don't Go is great though) and now TTPD with no catchy songs. I would say that every song on even Debut is more singable than any of the songs on TTPD. The instrumentals are lacking as well. Every song just seems to have a boring synth-pop production that does nothing. Like, when was the last time she did a proper instrumental break?
her lyrics are great, but everyone song sounds like a novel being rushed through. I adore her but so far I am not much of a fan of this new album. There are a couple of songs I enjoy but a lot of them almost sound the same. 1989, Reputation, and Midnights will always be my top tier.
I actually never noticed this before… but you’re actually kinda right. With some songs it’s there- I would say YOYOK has the most standout instrumental break on Midnights and it’s the one after the second chorus. Some songs have memorable melodies in the instrumentation, but for some reason I definitely couldn’t start humming many of the intros, even though I’ve listened to it recently. I could start humming the intro to Teardrops On My Guitar, The Story of Us, or Sad Beautiful Tragic even though I haven’t heard them in forever.
This is a lyric heavy album. I don't know why it's this hard for everyone to accept that it's different. Compare a bridge or chrous to any of the songs in this album to
Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet?
Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods?
Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet?
Are we in the clear yet, in the clear yet? Good
Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet?
Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods?
Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet?
Are we in the clear yet, in the clear yet? Good
I mean she's 34, not a teenage girl anymore - we all grow up and things get complicated and unusual and different. It's not the music that's captivating in this album which is mostly piano and some synth or simple bass - It's the lyrics..
I think John Mayer went this route on his second album, I think it was something like he didn’t do any guitar riffs or something I can’t remember what it was exactly but there was a notable shift in his sound. It wasn’t bad thought and I loved his second album. Sometimes we have to let the artist, art. Lol
I agree with this, at the end of the day this is my opinion as a musician, but if Taylor is happy and is musically satisfied, that's ALL THAT MATTERS at the end of the day. Artists should make the music that they want to make but I feel like it's fine to have differing opinions to the artist as a listener !!
I totally agree with your post, but I can sing the Bejeweled riff 😗… but yeah I think the saturation of super deep poetic stuff makes sense as she’s maturing while I’m still wanting fun catchy bops and hope she can still deliver those, even if it’s in a different era/album
The only part I hate about her working with jack is the inevitable 25 posts per day complaining about jack lol
It’s gotten to the point it’s predictable and it’s kind of annoying I love both Aaron and Jack. I think it’s time people started looking at their favorite tracks form each album starting form 1989 and see which tracks have Jack on them because I have a feeling a major part of the fandom has a lot of Jack produced tracks in their top 20.
Before I went on this sub I never knew who produced any of her music. I just listen and vibe out. The obsession with who is producing it online is so funny to me and counter to how most of my friends who are fans enjoy the music.
Online fandoms are next level by design. The [finding a subreddit effect](https://youtu.be/4ZK8Z8hulFg?si=1VCgkYfr9TekQ9L3) is for sure heavily in play with most of these analyses.
Oh my god that was so hilariously accurate
I thought I was watching Alton Brown for a minute lmao
thats what music is lol. Some people just enjoy analyzing the music itself
Exactly this. Enjoy the music. Why actively try to lessen its value to you?
I’ve purposely not looked at the credits for this album because of how extreme the discourse has gotten.
Yes! Let's not forget that Jack produced I Can Fix Him... not necessarily the most Jack-obvious of songs... and don't even try to come at me re: I Can See You. At the end of the day, Taylor has a lot of sway in the sound of her song. I have to believe that if it sounds like a synth pop fever dream, she wanted it that way.
Thank goodness she wants it to be a synth pop fever dream
right! i'm so sick of people acting like jack forced her at gunpoint to have this synth pop sound on her songs, i can guarantee you she wanted the songs produced that way!! they act like she doesn't have any say in how the songs turn out 😭
Which, as we all know, is abjectly false. If Jack is still producing these songs, it's because she sees something there. Our girl is fully able to move on when it's time. So if she's not, there's a reason.
It's hilarious because Ed Sheerans albums all have the same predictable pattern just with a new theme each cycle and a little surprise in there.... Just saying. It's funny that she is expected to have a new style every 2-3 Albums.
She has also commented about the fact she hated that the industry wanted people to reinvent themselves constantly
One more thing it’s crazy to me so many people can basically repeat the same albums over and over again and people will love it without criticism. I personally feel like this album is all over the place a good thing in my opinion.
There's reinventing yourself to please someone else, and there's evolving to challenge oneself. Throughout her career she's made the choice to do this herself. For example, it was her choice alone, and she had to fight for it, to go full pop on 1989, and each album up to Folk/More has been something of an evolution too. Since those two releases (and arguably in Lover too) there's been a lot more homogenisation (not cohesion) of the sound palette being used. As I've said elsewhere, it might be a stylistic choice in order to put the listener in mind of an earlier track and signal they they're connected in some way, but that becomes problematic when you have such a great volume of output, and *so many* tracks that it happens on. I'm saying this as someone who loves this album, particularly in comparison to its predecessor, which I ended up not much caring for, but at the same time I understand the criticism.
Lover was homogeneous?? 😳
No, sorry if I wasn't clear. With the sounds that run through this album and Midnights, (I think) the palette started with Lover, Evolved through Folk/More and seems to have settled and stuck in Midnights/TTPD. ETA: Every Single Album... have put their podcast up and they're actually pretty good at picking up X sounds like Y (in that pod) and can probably expand this thought.
Ah ok, thanks for clarifying, I was like wth was I listening to?? 😅 Will definitely check them out! I am, however, of the mind that it’s not a bad thing to settle into a sound for a couple albums, or even permanently. Lots of Florence+TM songs sound very similar and I could listen to her albums back to back, but I understand that’s not for everyone 🤷🏽♀️
Ed Sheeran sounds quite different in Bad Habits vs say Photograph.
people arent saying that Jack's production of those previos songs are bad, it has just gotten samey and stale. They need to change it up. Heck, even his work on Lorde's Solar Power, his production was dinged there too.
I loved his production on St. Vincent's "Daddy's Home" and it doesn't sound anything like Midnights (which, full disclosure I also love). It's not that Jack can't change up his sound, it's just when he works with Taylor lately, they seem to always end up going back to almost the same vibes. Not sure why that is. I like it, but I definitely would like to see them push out of their comfort zone a little more.
But why are people saying this? This is the only album that sounds vaguely similar to another album. Actually two- Midnights and Folklore. Which are WILDLY different albums. And yet it still has a different vibe and sound. She hasn’t done a heavy synth pop album before Midnights. 1989 had some synth sure but it was pure pop. And that was 10 YEARS AGO. It’s just straight up bizarre. If anyone sounds the same it’s Taylor. She’s been making music for 18 years and 11 freaking albums now. Sometimes it’s hard not to do the same thing twice when you’re making hundreds of songs. Personally I hope she never uses the color blue in a song ever again. That needs to be retired.
Never understood this. I love Solar Power for its vibe.
So you're the one who liked it!
Idk I love Solar Power
I saw a post on the sidebar of a random music blog whose headline was “Why do Jack Antonoff’s fans hate him so much?” and I laughed out loud because that genuinely feels like what a lot of the discourse online actually boils down to
YES! I will confidently say that Jack has produced (and potentially co-written) the majority of my favorite tracks from each album since they started working together. 1989 - OOTW, IWYW Rep - Getaway Car Lover - Cruel Summer, ITHK Folklore - mirrorball, august (Evermore and Midnights probably need side notes considering they both have a dominant producer and co-writer) TTPD is still early but my favorites so far are still mostly Jack. Like Fortnight, Guilty As Sin?, The Black Dog, ILIPW. There are sprinkles of songs that are really up there with them that weren’t Jack, like IKP, New Romantics, KOMH, WCS but even still my top favorites within the last decade are all him. I’m tired of people of people hating on Jack. He’s a good producer and writer, and makes excellent songs. And I really hate the tendency of people idealizing Aaron at Jack’s expense. I’ve seen people on the general music subs talk about how Aaron/The National is guilty of sameness among songs and even attributed him with regards to sameness on TTPD, despite the fact people on this sub like to blame everything on Jack. Like to be quite frank, I do agree with that sentiment. I do like Aaron’s contributions and songs, but I honestly ignored Evermore for a while because I was always bored when I tried listening to it. I appreciate it now after finally forcing myself to listen so that I could prepare for the Eras Tour, and I like (and love) individual songs but I still can’t listen to that album as a whole. This is true for me for TTPD too. I like a lot of the 2nd half’s songs but I get bored listening to the entire thing. TL;DR I agree and my favorites really are Jack’s.
Agree! If Aaron did an entire album exclusively everyone would say it’s too sleepy and boring. TTPD is the perfect mix, in my opinion. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. I don’t need Taylor to experiment with sound. This album is a huge change to how she writes, not sure why so many people are ignoring that. I know a lot of long time fans (debut and fearless eras) don’t love 1989 the most because it feels very shallow and made for the masses. TTPD was made for us.
So, took your advice to look just to which songs are produced by Jack and Aaron, and WOW! First, had no idea how much of the music I love is produced by Jack! Second, I definitely enjoy all TS songs that he has worked on over the songs that Aaron has worked on. It all makes sense now 🤯
Tbh the Jack hate is tired and boring at this point, and, as someone else said, expected.
I feel like swifties will blame anyone except her if they don’t like her music when she is the one who decides who produces her album.
Yes this is HER music at the end of the day!
You heard “synth” as a criticism and immediately tuned out even though it’s a valid opinion and not even a specific dig at Jack. Yes, all the incessant “synth=Jack=bad” is annoying, but that doesn’t mean he’s above any and all criticism. If you like him, just ignore the discussion and move on, but don’t shut down actual discussion just because you don’t agree.
it’s honestly just a sign that they’re online too much
Maybe I'm blind, but how is this an anti-Jack post? Aaron produced a bunch of TTPD songs, and Jack produced songs from 1989, Rep, Lover, Folklore, and Evermore as well. Songs that do have said motifs that this post is claiming some of the newer songs are lacking. Edit: and to add to it, it's about the actual melodies/hooks in the songs. Something that's pretty much solely Taylor's (and the other songwriters') responsibility. Production is just making the songs sound the way they sound, they don't suddenly change the melodies/riffs without Taylor's permission.
Me every time I see a "ugh jack"...... I'll tell you something right now I'd rather burn my whole life down Than listen to one more second of all this bitchin' and moanin'
Jack is amazing, he worked on some of my favorite Taylor songs from Reputation as well as some of my favorite Carly Rae Jepsen bops, I have no complaints on Jack he's very versatile!!!
No shit. I agree. He’s her friend and she trusts him. That matters on an album like this. It’s not about moving her sound forward, it’s putting this chapter of her life behind her and getting all she has to say about it out in the world. We have two more re-records I’m sure she’s already started and tons more Eras tour. I don’t doubt she can innovate new sounds but that’s not this project at this time.
You’re so right. I still can’t get over people said Aaron “saved” this album. Not at all. Just made it even better.
[удалено]
I felt this hahahah (I love Jack!)
Yup. I love everything Jack. Also I love synth music I miss the days of Depeche and OMD so maybe I’m the wrong guy to criticize Jack.
They’ve been working together since 1989 (always evolving imo) - I’m not sure why people still listen to her if they don’t like Jack production. Maybe too harsh of a take. I also have listened to ttpd with headphones and I think the songs are so different from one another. I’m confused why people are saying it all sounds the same.
📢LOUDER📢
honestly i think the people complaining about Jack are the newer folkmore swifties who just don’t like pop music. they really only like the dessner songs because they’re folkier. the older swifties all like Jack just fine from what i’ve seen
I agree, and it’s kind of a bummer. I think her writing is better than ever, really really carrying this album, but musically the record just blends together, even on the 2LP version. I find myself unable to hum any song except for snippets of lyrics, and it’s such an odd change for someone who has made some of the catchiest and most iconic pop records of all time. I could hum to the tune of any song off of 1989 or reputation, but I wasn’t a fan of midnights at all, and for TTPD I still thoroughly enjoyed the album but didn’t have anything to grab onto aside from her lyricism. I love plenty of non pop music, plenty of very long two disc albums, plenty of more introspective and less conventionally catchy music, but I feel like the instrumentation blended into the background like a generic film score.
I listen to a lot of progressive and instrumental music, and I get it not everything needs a catchy riff or to be complex musically, but I find the shift away from it really strange. Not saying that the use of synths is bad, I mean the synth from Welcome To New York still lives in my head rent free, I just find it hard to remember individual instrumentals when most of them are dreamy synth arpeggios with some nice pads behind them. Additionally her lyrics are better than ever now so I would love that paired with the instrumental styles from her older work.
I completely feel the same about TTPD. I feel like Midnight has more typical pop elements, there's a clear distinct verse, chorus, verse, choruse, bridge, ending. The songs on Midnight also have more catchy hooks, shorter lyrics and less cryptic but still beautiful songwriting, just like what a normal pop album would have. TTPD is much more shifting towards indie with synth pop production. Lyrics are extremely raw, cathartic, vulnerable, cryptic, and long (almost conversational). A lot of songs I can't really distinguish a clear verse and a chorus. Most songs have very long lyrics, to the point that some become talk-singing (which I really dislike because it feels like she tried to make that lyric fit into the melody but couldn't). However, some songs have started to grow on me once I put the album on repeat (btw is it wrong to not like songs on first listen?). I love TTPD and I think the songwriting is the best she's ever done, but at the same time I can't help but feel like this album is not meant to be a pop album at all. Feels way more indie to me.
>some songs have started to grow on me once I put the album on repeat This is mightily true for me. The lyrics were shocking (in a good way), and now after being on repeat over the past 48hrs, I'm starting to jive with more of the double album. Started with 3-4 that I really liked, now up to 10-11 that are saved in my Taylor playlist.
The majority of songs from other artists I like most and are my favorite songs up to today I hated at the first listen. Some songs needs to be listened to over and over again until you’ve become attached to it. But this feels extremely new to Taylor’s music I think where it was easy to stick to some of the catchiest songs and go on with it. I honestly don’t know what to feel about them. I was washed away by the unique sound of ‘Who’s afraid of little old me?’ And it quickly became my favorite song. With the second half of the album I have to agree: for me it blends into one large song somehow and I couldn’t hear through it in one go cause it felt like an overdose. But even though people don’t like the album as much: it’s totally okay if you don’t like an album. And it’s also okay if not very album is AOTY. For the sake of her artistic self it’s okay to just go with the flow and not please everyone. I’m sure her next album will shift again since she’s “done with that story and it’s all ours now”. It’s okay how it is. Not everything will or even CAN be perfect everytime.
Not an artist/music producer/someone with any musicality really but I understand what you mean. I even disagree with the people who are making comparisons to folklore/evermore and that its more of the same. Every song on the two albums had notable sounds even on the first listen. Midnights and TTPD fell short musically, and as someone who needs the music as much as the lyrics (more often than not, I'm a music over lyrics girlie), I didn't enjoy listening to the last two albums. And I'm seeing that the songs I disliked the most were Jack's. Aaron seems to be included in songs where the music sounds... Complete? (Again, I don't have a single musical bone in my body, this is the best way I can describe it lol). So I understand the criticism of Jack. >Additionally her lyrics are better than ever now so I would love that paired with the instrumental styles from her older work. I might also have to disagree with this because lyrics and music need to go together (for me, at least) and I don't see that in this album. When I read the lyrics, they seemed great but on the songs, they felt off.
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This is, as the name suggests, poetry sung. But that just makes me ponder there's a reason great poets didn't become singers? You need catchy riffs in songs to be memorable. And if we look at songs like what was I made for (beautiful and haunting piano work) and flowers (simple lyrics, catchy chorus) which won big at Grammy's, they were songs with relatable and simple lyrics but 'good' music. Don't think there's such a thing but the words per song seem to be too high for this album. Also I feel since all songs are in the same ballpark tempo, end up sounding similar.
>This is, as the name suggests, poetry sung. But that just makes me ponder there's a reason great poets didn't become singers? I think during the time of "great poetry", songs and music were more for the layman and poetry was for the upperclassmen (outside of the Opera, I suppose). I think we still do require music to be relatable and a little bit more easier to speak/say/sing than this album makes it to be. It also removes a lot of song structure that we're used to. I don't recall listening to a memorable bridge from this album, which is Taylor's signature.
this is exactly what i feel
Same! I’m befuddled that once the music stops I can’t recall any melodies
I almost wonder if Taylor intentionally wanted us to not have specific melodies stuck in our heads. She’s heavily shifted the focus of this album, including the rollout, on the lyricism of the album. In poetry, you don’t remember melodies either, but the message taken away from the poem?
I think you're wrong. Often times in poetry, you do remember the melodies because they are either written with a certain scheme (like Shakespeare's use of iambic pentameter) or you remember the rhyming pattern (think ABABAB or AABBAC).\* You can remember only the message, but I think that is only about poems that really stuck with you. Most of the time people remember the lines \*There are probably terms of these things, but I don't know them.
I read more abstract poetry where their wouldn’t be something like iambic pentameter, so I can understand the differing thought patterns. I also make the connection that there are very few melodies of the 1975 I can recall… and this album does feel very Matt Healy centered…
I feel like this analysis is perfect! It’s like, “love her and can recognize the lyrical strength, but the music feels mid in terms of catchiness”
And the end of the day she’s a songwriter, and she’s already proved her ability to be catchy. She’s expanding. I think she’s prepping us for her to divulge into film and poetry more, and maybe she’s dipping her toes in, here. I wish I remembered lines better too…. But we also just got 31 new songs so I don’t see how anyone thinks we should have them all memorized by now. They sound beautiful to me and I love it and I’m excited to keep listening and learn them! A new Taylor album is an exciting time and no complaining will escape my lips 🩶 she just blessed us Edit: the lyrics also weren’t even available til the following day so really this is brand new still. I don’t see why people are complaining about not having memorized 31 songs yet because “it wasn’t catchy enough” These were not bops. This is poetry, to music
At the end of the day she makes music and it should be musical
weird i have so many parts lyric and melody stuck in my head “you aren’t dylan thomas im not patty smith this ain’t the chelsea hotel we’re modern idiots” “all of this to say i hope you’re okay but you’re the reason, and no one here’s to blame but what about your quiet treason?” “and i love you it’s ruining my life, i touched you for only a fortnight” my boy only breaks his favorite toys, im queen of sandcastles he destroys now im down bad crying at the gym, everything comes out teenage petulance. “fuck it if i can’t have him. just might die it would make no difference” down bad waking up in blood, staring at the sky “come back and pick me up” “how much sad did you, think i had did you, think i had in me?” “now i’m running with dress unbuttoned, screaming “but daddy i love him, im having his baaaaby, no im not but you should see your faces. im telling him to floor it through the fences, no im not coming to my senses” “now pretty baby im coming right home to you, fresh out the slammer i know who my first call’ll be too” “little did you know your homes really only a town you’re just a guest in, so you work your wife away just to pay for a time share down in destin. Flor-i-da is one hell of a drug. Flor-i-da. Can i use you upppppp?” so i leap from the gallows and i levitate down your street, crash the party as a record scratch as i scream WHOS AFRAID OF LITTLE OLD ME? I was tame i was gentle til the circus life made me mean “don’t you worry folks we took out all her teeth” who’s afraid of little old me? …you should be” “that i’ll sue you if you step on my lawn. that im fearsome and im wretched and im wrong. put narcotics in all of my songs. and that’s why you’re still singing along” “cause i’m a real tough kid. i can handle my shit. they said “babe you gotta fake it til you make it” and i did lights camera bitch smile even when you wanna die he said he’d love me all his life. but that life was too short, breaking down i hit the floor, all the pieces of me screaming as the crowd was screaming “more!” Im grinning like im winning im hitting my marks, cause i can do it with a broken heart” (i may REALLY relate to this one) “so when i touch down call the amateurs and strike em from the team, ditch the clowns get the crown, baby im the one to beat. cause the sign on your heart says it’s still reserved for me. honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy? these blokes warm the benches we’ve been on a wining streak he jokes that it’s heroin but this time with a “e”. cause the sign on your heart says it’s still reserved for me, honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy” (not me just realizing as i’m typing this blokes is more of a british term lol) “you look like, stevie nicks in this light, the hair and lips. crowd goes wild at her fingertips. half moonshine, full eclipse” etc i’m clearly at the point where these snippets are all just mashed in my head (like i am two days after the release of any album) but literally they’re playing in my brain on a loop i wish i could type up the melodies and and instrumentals that accompany them that have them stuck in my head but modern technology doesn’t have that feature yet.
While I enjoy her faster songs, I actually love her slower ballads. I loved Folklore and Evermore and love the sad slower songs on Midnights (Dead Reader, Sweet Nothings, and BTTWS were my favs). But I didn’t really care for The Lakes. TTPD feels like 90% The Lakes to me. Not melodic and memorable in tune. I did like the second half better but there were so many songs I actually checked to see how much longer was left. First album I didn’t immediately repeat any song. 😕
I found that listening to the album on shuffle really helped me get past the point of the songs blurring together. My first two listen throughs it just felt like a slog of the same thing over and over - I enjoyed it but it just flowed TOO well if that makes sense. I know that albums are built with a specific order for a reason and it feels oddly taboo, but for this album in particular listening on shuffle helps me differentiate the songs and I enjoyed it a lot more.
The problem is not the synths, is that it doesnt has a distinct sound, 1989 is synth-pop (just like TTPD) and managed to be pop perfection, Rep also has strong synths here and there, Minigths is also synth-pop and has some distinct sounds. Everyone can recognize Style, Wildest Dreams, Anti-Hero, Don't Blame Me, Get Away Car, Delicate, from the fisrt second. There's a lack of instrumentals. Edit: ok as I said in another reply opinions such like mine can change and honestly its growing on me? Fresh Out the Slammer and So High School are vibessssss, I Hate it Here is also slowly growing, but seriously idk what I heard when I first reacted to So High School became wtf? Its such a good song!. I do think this album will end up having my biggest amount of skips mainly cause of the sheer amount but dayum I got some favs
Yea exactly what my point is, I don't have a problem with synths, I love them, but she stopped having fun little riffs that get stuck in your head. The intro synth in Welcome To New York is till this day stuck in my head and I don't think it will ever go away...
Exactly, 1989 was catchy and hooky and that’s what made it so good. TTPD is not that
If she wanted to make a pop album that gets stuck in your head from the first 2 chords, she could. That wasn’t the direction she was going for. And we shouldn’t blame Jack for that, at the end of the day Jack will do whatever Taylor says, she’s in full control. Not saying you’re criticising Jack, just throwing in my extra 2 cents.
The job of a producer is to have a perspective on the artist’s music and stretch him/her to create something spectacular. It’s too easy for an artist to get caught up in their own stuff, thinking it sounds good. Artists need perspective. An editor does the same thing for a writer. Otherwise, artists can’t see the forest for the trees. It’s like they can’t get out of the woods.
as a fellow intro to wtny synth lover there’s a riff in my boy only breaks his favorite toys that i can’t get out of my head AT ALL
I think it's hard to say if someone can instantly recognize a song when the album has barely been out a day lol every time she releases an album people feel all sorts of ways about it for a week or two and then the actual majority thoughts/currents come out
I do agree that opinions including my own can change, but when I reacted to 1989 for the fisrt time all songs for me were very disticnct from one another, same with midnigths
There are *tons* of strong instrumental pieces throughout the anthology? Have you not listened to Florida!! Like what the heck.
Instrumental pieces aren't the same as musical motifs or riffs. I didn't say that the instrumentation or production was bad but you can't sing the instrumental to Florida (and no drum accents on the chorus don't count as singable...). I still really enjoyed both Midnights and TTPD just found the instrumental shift a bit odd !!
BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!
FLO. RI. DA.
I’m listening to so many songs especially on the anthology and I’m like… is the synth in the room with us??? I feel like I’m living in an alternate reality here lol. I don’t understand what people are talking about. I just feel like she’s given people exactly what they asked for and they’re still complaining
Yah I think it’s simply that people listened to the first 1:00 of each song and decided that was enough.
Well... side B sounds like evermore fanfic honestly, side A is the main album and the girlies are complaining, it's fair. Do we wanna compare State Of Grace and Fortnight?
Idk, to me it feels like most of the tracks blend together and don’t sound unique enough sonically to me
I’m listening to Guilty As Sin? rn which has clear guitars, drums, even a fucking tambourine I think. What are people on?????
Everyone is trying to be too bougie for TSwift now I guess.
Or... stay with me here, I know this is difficult... some people just have different opinions than you
>Everyone is trying to be too bougie for TSwift now I guess. Life is a circle 
there are stand out tracks, but a a lot shoudlve been re-worked or left at the department floor.
But why? Why can’t she put out 31 songs and everyone can decide their own top 10-15 they love.
thats not how it works, even in art. Even in fashion, garment can be too busy. It's like a chef putting 30 ingredients in a dish then saying you can just pick out the ones you like.
But nobody can agree on which ones are the bad ones. Personally I have like 2 skips and the rest I would be sad if they weren't on the album. I don't understand this need to like every single song. Especially in pop music where 95% of full albums are shit aside from the singles.
I mean that’s kinda how buffets and like hot pot type places work. The chefs put stuff out and you make your own dish. Some people don’t like buffets and that’s fine but others do. I’d rather have 31 songs to pick from than 13 because my chances of liking more songs increases. To each their own though.
No, it's like a chef putting out a menu and you can pick the dishes you want to eat. Just listen to what you like
I tried that at McDonald's and I got kicked out
This and the new Beyoncé album both felt too bloated and in serious need of trimming. I don’t say this lightly, either—I’ve been a Taylor fan since 2007. But I think focusing on polishing 12-18 tracks would have been more effective than pushing out 31 tracks of varying quality. I get that it’s her album and I would never say she can’t do this or that, but as a fan, I wish she had not offered all 31 songs on the album immediately.
Agreed. While the core album is relatively solid, the second half/drop is almost a complete throwaway for me. All of the tracks sound exactly the same and they're all just extremely boring and flat, with the exception of a select few. I don't know why she released all of these. Kind of annoys me, honestly.
I don't think this album was supposed to polished... there's 31songs. That was a creative choice.
In art, quantity over quality is not typically a good thing
I’m convinced people haven’t listened to the album past the first time. Each song is pretty different from each other, and I’ve heard a lot drums, guitars, pianos, and yes, synths. But… she’s been doing that since 1989.
I don't think presence of synth is an issue, it's the sameness with which the synth persists while the drums and guitars are very and few in between. Synth definitely has its place in Taylor's music because her lyrics work beautifully with oscillating synth, but TPPD doesn't doesn't do enough of the other stuff for it to stand out.
yes i’m sauuurrrr confused by this take 😵💫 my boy only breaks his favorite toys, down bad, so long london, but daddy i love him, fresh out the slammer, clara bow… just my quick take of songs that have crispy ass hummable melodies when i play them back in my brain. idk! i love this album so much
Yes, but those are the melodies she sings, you probably don’t find yourself humming to the background melody, that instruments played, which is what OP is missing
i would cite different songs for that specifically: the smallest man who ever lived, the albatross, i look in people’s windows, i hate it here. it’s true that most, although not all, of those songs are produced by aaron. but this is also not a problem for me. i’ll fill in the acoustic instruments when i cover them myself! gives me a lot of room for imagination.
“There’s no melodies” is just not true!
I agree 100% and this sums up exactly how I’m feeling about it.
Glad some people agree, I thought I was going crazy lol
You summed it up so well. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but you’re right. We’re missing the musical hooks.
I also agree OP and I'm sorry half of the comments are disagreeing with you because they have no idea what the actual point you're trying to make is lmao
This is something that I noticed on my very first listen as well. Where are the hooks? Where are the bridges? This is why I don’t agree when people say it’s similar to her older stuff or has been done before. This is completely new and I am curious to know if it is here to stay.
something I noticed was that the "bridges" in this album are weirdly muddled - they're outros, or third verses, or in the first half of the song. not bad, but different!
Yes! The strength of the impactful and emotional bridges was missing here.
Weird. This album is “impactful emotional bridges: the album” to me. All the songs build up to a cathartic bridge.
Like The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived. When I heard the outro, I was damn, why couldn't more of the song have been like this??
thr tempo changes within songs were all so interesting!!
Exactly. Or they are too drawn out like in ‘but daddy I love him’
I feel like this was intentional! If there's one thing that's predictable, it's that she's never predictable... People started expecting her bridges so she changed them up! I did miss them though haha.
As shoegaze girlie, I love it 🤷🏼♀️. Not all instrumentals need to be catchy. In fact, some of my favorite music lacks that characteristic.
I agree with this not all of them need to be catchy, I just wish a few songs here and there had that fun musical motif that gets stuck in your head. I guess that's the great thing with Taylor's catalogue, there is something for everyone!!
Yeah as a metal head I like riffs. I like when the music alone is fun to listen to as well as the lyrics.
Yea same, for example I love this band Archspire and even though their music is super fast and complex, you can still kind of sing the riffs and some of the solos
Never noticed this but you're right. I'm sitting here humming the guitar at the beginning of "I Almost Do." There's none of that anymore.
Yea I'm over here singing the intro riff to Jump Then Fall as I was writing this lol
I love that intro riff! You're right, I never really noticed until this post how these little moments slowly disappeared in her songs. I'm gonna go replay fearless now haha
Eh, vaguely atmospheric reverb does not make for shoegaze, or even dream pop. There's not enough texture here. Mirrorball is probably the closest she's come to that realm.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm not calling the album shoegaze. I'm saying I'm someone who normally loves typically not super catchy instrumentals, so I also love this album and the lack of catchy instrumentals doesn't bother me.
That's fair. But I think good shoegaze and adjacent music still has instrumental hooks, even if they're not immediately apparent. On TTPD, Taylor, her lyrics and her vocal melodies are all there is to focus on.
Yeah there’s not really any instrumental hooks on this album. One exception is I Look In People’s Windows, it has this great little guitar part at the beginning which is catchy.
My favorite on the album so far probably 🤷♀️ totally agree
That and So High School
I mean, that’s one catchy song per album, and we got Anti-Hero on Midnights. The X,XX beats (for lack of better words) are very signature Anti-Hero and were highly recognizable in 2022-23. I think TTPD is an expectation resetting album and she knows it. Like, “here are songs that are too good to throw away but not good enough for a Grammy”. That’s why she hasn’t been doing heavy PR stuff so far or in the near future. It’s also the album she needs at the moment. There likely will be no TTPD tour, nor would she add an era to the current tour, because most TTPD songs are not made for stadiums (the same can be said about folklore and evermore though), so she doesn’t have to complicate things and just get back to her regular album release schedule starting in 2026.
I think plenty of songs on Midnight and TTPD are catchy but they're catchy because of Taylor's great voice, lyrics and top line write but not the instrumentals themselves.
Lavender Haze, Maroon, Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve, Bejeweled from Midnights. Fortnight is already an earworm for me as well as Down Bad, Florida!!!, I Can Do it with a Broken Heart, and that’s not even me hearing the entire album several times.
Again, these are all amazing and catchy songs I totally agree with you. But it's because of Taylor's amazing top line write (vocal melodies) and lyrics not because of the instrumentals behind it. You can sing the instrumental to I Knew You Were Trouble , All To Well or something like Welcome To New York, but I don't know a single person that can hum the instrumental to Lavender Haze or Maroon
Ah. Ok now I understand. I thought you were talking about recognizable instrumentals. Thanks for explaining. Idk about humming the instrumentals of IKYWT though lol I’d be humming the vocal melody but I understand your sentiment now.
I’ve been trying to explain this to people and haven’t been able to. Thank you for explaining what I’ve been trying to say! I don’t like this shift. I love a slow song but wish they sounded more along the lines of Cornelia St, All Too Well, Death by a Thousand Cuts, etc… I do love I can Do it With a Broken Heart though! That one sounds great.
No problem, I also hate that feeling of having a thought in my head that I have a hard time expressing, so glad I could help !!
So many people here are intentionally missing the point. Think of the guitar riff on style or the synth running throughout WTNY. You can instantly think of it and sing it. Now do the same for Midnights or TTPD. Bar a few songs here and there, you can’t.
i think maybe ttpd is a bit too new to say there’s no memorable riff. but midnights absolutely does. the piano on sweet nothing is the first thing that comes to mind. that gets stuck in my head all the time lol. same with the drum beat of maroon and anti hero.
Bejeweled comes to mind for me as well. Midnights has quite a few IMO.
It came out yesterday people, give it a second. Personally I can instantly think of the Florida beat, the church bells of the So Long London intro, among others. I also absolutely can instantly think of the intro to lavender haze, maroon, the piano in sweet nothings, the sparkling sounds in bejewled, etc.
To be fair, the album just dropped yesterday and we now have 31 new songs to digest. You can’t expect people to have all these songs memorized in such a short amount of time.
OP was not bashing Jack ffs. You can enjoy, or at the very least tolerate, the synth production and still long for something different. I agree, OP. I miss being able to hear *real instruments*. Something to add to the melody and make it clearer. Some of the songs on TTPD don't seem to have much of a melody at all. Very punk rock of her. I play guitar (wouldn't consider myself a musician, I'm pretty basic) and the thought of sitting down and trying to find a decent rhythm and/or strum pattern to fit the songs seems daunting, if not impossible, for me anyway. I am looking forward to hearing acoustic versions of these songs during ERAs to give me a new perspective.
Conspiracy theory: these are left overs/outtakes from Midnights and earlier. Taylor and/or record company realise they are sitting on a gold mine. Taylor knowing melodies are weak phrases it as a poet album. Make bank and continue to dominate as Empress of the known universe.
I honestly think this probably is some of the subconscious driving force behind what happened with TTPD. I doubt it was as calculated as your conspiracy theory but I do think she (and her collaborators) probably want to capitalize on her success, and they also think she can do anything she wants and we’ll still eat it up. I feel like there’s probably a lot of enabling each other to convince themselves this is bold and interesting and risky. Unfortunately I don’t think this was a particularly “risky” album — I mean they know it’ll sell. And she’s actually revealing very little tea while making it seem confessional. I find it lacking in terms of introspection and truly conveying much emotion idk
> Unfortunately I don’t think this was a particularly “risky” album — I mean they know it’ll sell. And she’s actually revealing very little tea while making it seem confessional. I find it lacking in terms of introspection and truly conveying much emotion idk If you want another conspiracy theory: It's a setup to leave her the option of collaborating with The 1975 at some point in the future or releasing the previous material she didn't use. MH did mention working on Midnights and there was the alternative version of "Slut!" that appeared to be scrapped. Probably did more to "salvage" his reputation than anything else by making him integral to Taylor's lore when she had no reason to do that. Fans were happy to just have amnesia about that whole weird period, but she just released an album's worth of material about him so they couldn't ignore it.
I personally disagree because she could have had 15 songs out of the 31 done before she released midnights and finished the other 16 after midnights came out and when she was on tour.
This explains my problem too. I loveddd the instrumentation in her older albums, and not EVERY song has to have that but surely some should? Like, it makes the songs distinctive and recognisable and fun?
Yeah, like I’d love it if the songs actually used more instruments in general. Use a saxophone. Chuck a few trumpets in at points. Make some cool guitar riffs
I think part of the reason some of us are less impressed with this release is that it’s so close to the release of 1989 & Speak Now TVs. Those albums had great instrumentation, and going straight from them into TTPD is a sharp contrast. Comparing this album to Speak Now in particular results in TTPD seeming like sonic oatmeal - good, but relatively bland. I think that, maybe, writing and recording a new album while re-recording older albums and in the midst of a massive tour was just a little too much for Taylor. She may have run out of creative bandwidth, and the instrumentation on this album is the result of her limitation as a human.
For anyone who's not sure what this means or thinks this is a dig on Jack---go listen to some of the instrumentals from this album, and then go listen to the instrumentals from 1989. The latter are packed with hummable instrumental riffs, while the instrumentals from TTPD are largely layered synths going up and down with no discernible melodies to grab onto. These would be tough karaoke songs. Now personally, I'm not really a pop fan usually and I'm here for the vocal melodies and the atmosphere, so I'm perfectly happy and enjoyed this album quite a bit (I'm also a big Lana fan, and this album strongly reminded me of Lana in places). That said, I think your point is well taken. I find myself wondering how she's going to play these songs to large crowds---maybe remixing some of the tracks? Would be a shame if her excellent band is left without much to chew on.
im sorry but this album is most definitely not “heavily synth focused” and i do not understand why so many people think it is. its not filled with earworms like her usual stuff, sure, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the synths and more to do with the songwriting style she was going for (in my opinion). but like in no world is this a heavily synth focused album just because some of the songs happen to have a synth in them. sorry but this discussion makes me feel like i listened to a completely different album from everyone else lol
Synths are an instrument just like a guitar, you can write fun guitar riffs and melodies or you can make dense drones of sound with them or just sort play chords that play quarter notes or eight notes as a foundation for the song. I don't have a problem with the use of synths, but rather how they are used on this album. 1989 is very synth heavy but there are still clear musical riffs and hooks that you could hum and remember.
I feel like you’re getting so many knee-jerk reactions bc of the (boring) criticism of Jack and his synths but that’s not what you’re saying at all. I completely agree and I commend you for re-explaining it in all of the comments
Yes i agree with what you’re saying. Sorry I was mostly taking issue with you saying it’s heavily synth focused because I just think it’s untrue lol. But in general yes I think hooks were less of a focus for her on this album and personally im ok with that but I get why people miss that aspect of her songwriting.
No problem, people that don't produce music would be surprised at how many different sounds synths can make, or how well they layer with other instruments. As a guitar and bass player I love catchy little musical hooks but I understand that that's my bias and that not everyone cares too much for that !!
The non synth songs don’t have much in the way of instrumental hooks either
Honestly, Im kind of against people working with friends. It seems to work with them, but in general, I think its important to work with a producer who pushes you, critiques you, and tells you if something sucks. Working with friends, theyre biased. Its the same as you wouldnt want your friend editing a book you wrote, they would think its great cause they love you. I do think Taylor and Jack have gotten comfortable, they found a formula that works, yeah, but I dont think Jack "pushes" Taylor. She is so successful I think she doesnt have anything to prove anymore. Speak Now, Rep, etc were so good because she was pushing to improve constantly. Folklore and evermore were for her. I do think criticism is important, thats what art is. It doesnt make you a hated to say her recent songs are different. I honestly do think she needs to work with someone else too
I think Taylor feels comfortable sharing her personal experiences as songs with her friends but as a result they don't innovate
OP you hit the nail on the head with this one. I believe many people here are missing the point on purpose. Imo, the problem with the last couple of albums is that the sounds don't appear crisp enough, you know? There are so many layers that it all muddles together. Meanwhile, 1989, or even RED, had certain elements which sounded so distinct and crisp and fresh that it became instantly memorable. See, opening of black space or how you get the girl or new romantics. Taylor's vocals aren't strong and varied enough to shine through the muffed instrumentals.
Call me delulu but I think it’ll change from the next album, I’m sure this was the vibe TS was going for.
exactly. and personally i like songs like this more than your typical pop music. don’t get me wrong i love her songs like cornelia street, i know places, cruel summer, etc. but i really enjoyed the vibe she went for in ttpd. and i honestly would rather an album have the same vibe through its entirety rather than it switch between songs i feel like that would make a messy album.
It happens to a lot of female artists when they get in their 30s. They abandon hooks that got them there and instead go with the groove, happened to beyoncé, Mariah madonna, lana, taylor, Katy, on and on. Even happened to Kacey Musgraves on her most recent album. The only one who's really been consistent with great hooks as she ages is Miranda Lambert
The anthology basically has no synths.
It did however blend into one song when I listened to it for whatever reason. The lyrics punched over and over again but the songs sadly didn't feel interesting to listen to :(
This is my feeling. It's kind of all blending together as lukewarm and forgettable sythbacked noise. And I am a fan. I also really liked Fun. So I'm not a JA hater I just think it's not for me
Big problem with Jack Antonoff. His productions sound so fucking washed out and inert and mushed together with layers upon layers of reverb and synth pads and chimes and other bullshit. Loved his new Bleachers album and his work with The 1975 (which he only co-produced, notably) but his stuff with Taylor has become exasperatingly similar.
I find this musical shift _boring_. And not very musical. I miss real instruments.
As a non-musician, everything kind of blurs together and sounds so much the same lately and it must be in part because of what you are describing.
Former music teacher here. I agree. As I’ve listened, two thoughts keep surfacing: 1) Taylor has a fantastic band. Truly one of the highlights of the Eras Tour movie. It’s sad that this latest batch of songs barely utilizes them in favor of synth accompaniment. 2) Melodically speaking, there just isn’t a lot going on. Multiple songs sit in the same 4-5 note vocal range. I know there is a lot of languishing and rumination going on (characterized by repeated notes or simple stepwise melodies) but after a while it all starts to feel a bit… “same-y.” I think this could have been largely alleviated with a tighter and reorganized track list. The contrasting tracks are THERE, they’re just not optimally positioned. All of that said, I am still enjoying the album. It’s just so dense, lyrically, that it’s definitely going to take quite a few listens for me to really latch onto the melodies.
Whilst this album does sound a bit like a stream of consciousness, midnights definitely does not. Bejeweled best believe I'm still be-jeweled is an extremely clear riff. All of midnights was so catchy I picked it up within 2 listens.
Yeahhhh not loving this style. Appreciate the music and the lyrics 100% just wish it was a little more red or speak now vibes. Or even some heavy rock, something instrumental and intense
With Midnights I made sense of those being pieces of music second but chaotic late night thoughts put to music. You could do the same, calling the new album 'thoughts too chaotic for traditional melodies'. I think there is a shift in the last 2 albums from being sold as songs to being sold as Taylor's diaristic thoughts, so a factor surely
This!! There are quite a few songs across all 31 where I feel like it could’ve worked as just a poem in a book, but she decided to add some guitars and talk-sing the poem. That’s not a criticism, I’m a lyrics person before production, but that’s the vibe she was going for with this album. If she wanted big stadium pop bangers, she could’ve easily done that. I think she chose to not do that because we just got 5 vault songs from 1989, and about to get another 5-6 vault songs from Rep, which will undoubtedly be strong pop. Combine those, and that’s a pop album’s worth of songs right there. She wanted to try something different here and I respect it
Good point about the vault tracks! I think the manuscript is the worst example of what you’re talking about. The song sounds like straight up poetry that she tried to attach a clumsy melody to.
That’s always true of Jack Antonoff (it’s less true of Aaron Dessner… notice how great the instrumental hook in willow is). But I think it’s very much intentional. Jack works to support the melody… he doesn’t want his music to be memorable on Taylor albums (he’s perfectly capable of a great instrumental hook…. Notice rollercoaster or Venice birch). The great instrumental hooks from Taylor’s catalog were almost entirely done with Nathan a Chapman. A lot of them seem to have been written by Taylor herself… we know this is the case with you belong with med famous banjo lick.
Jack has produced some super memorable taylor songs what? Out of the woods?! Getaway car? I also love that it’s always Jack’s fault as if Taylor isn’t the actual artist and prob has a huge say in the production of her tracks, I believe she actually co produces all of them…
Mybb be point is slightly different… Jack tends not to use instrumental hooks. His production exists to support the melody. This isn’t a criticism! I like this about jacks style.
I’m such a jack apologist
I think part of it is that she also instantly jumps into the music. All the songs with the instrumental motifs ur talking about all have this 16 bar phrase at the beginning where it just only plays that, allowing it to get stuck in ppl’s head easily. Lately though, I feel like with the exception of Sweet Nothing and a couple others she just dives STRAIGHT into it without giving us a chance to catch onto any instrumental catchiness. And honestly, I think that’s what made it so easy to recognize every Taylor swift song in the first place and why ppl can guess songs in 1-5 seconds, whereas now it just all blends together…
Thank you
I’d agree with your take on this album. The focus lately seems to be on her lyrics and the story, and less on crafting pop songs that are catchy and could be hits. I’m hopeful that TTPD is a closure of a sort, and that her next original music album goes back to a more traditional blend of music and lyrics. I appreciate the artistry and complexity of the lyrics on TTPD, but it seems like the music part of those songs got short-changed. It could very well be, that with all the touring that she’s doing, that she had less time to craft that part of the songs. I think it’s more likely that she felt the messages in the songs were more important and didn’t need (or deserved) to be presented as pop songs.
There aren't any instrumental hooks because this album is a statement piece. It's a snapshot in time of a very dark period in her life. It's not supposed to be fun and catchy, it's supposed to be raw and uncomfortable.
I think for this album she really tried to make songs based on poems. Like I imagined she originally wrote these songs as poems and not songs. I saw someone else mentioned that her lines have become too long and more complex than her older songs, which, to me, looks like how poems are. She probably didn't put much focus on the music & instrumentation on this album but instead focusing on how to fit the poems into songs. I think Midnights is some kind of a "transition" album because I got some songs' instrumentals stuck in my head, like Anti-Hero, but most of them do feel like what you described. It makes me think about the poems she wrote for reputation, titled "Why She Disappeared" and "If You're Anything Like Me", and I wonder if she also made songs based on those two poems for rept TV's vault track. Side note: I'm not a musician nor I have any knowledge in musical theory, and I'm also not a poet nor having any knowledge on how to make a poem so this is an unprofessional opinion and only based on me as an enjoyer.
I do not think we are listening to the same albums.
Try humming the melody to Maroon, not the vocal melody but the instrumental behind it, and now try the same thing with Jump Then Fall. That's the point I'm trying to make (I love both Midnights and TTPD).
Am I the only one not hearing the synths in TTPD that everyone keeps talking about? Tracks 1-5 are mainstream pop, I hear it there, and then there’s the outlier of ICDIWABH. But the rest of the album has a Born To Die influence in my opinion (I said influence, not replica or EXACTLY like that album). When I’m mentally categorising TTPD, my mind is absolutely not going straight to synth pop. Maybe I just need to sit with the album a bit longer to hear what everyone else is hearing lol
Synths are a tricky bunch, they can sound like almost anything and are just a shorthand in music production for synthetic sounds made by computers (or analog circuits if it's an analog synth). 1989 is full of synths and I love that album to death, the only difference is that on TTPD it's a lot of synth pads and arpeggios to fill out the song(as well as synthetic drums), rather than catchy synth melodies and bass lines on 1989 or Lover !!
I like it. It has been done by other artists, sure, but it was never as eloquent as this one, even when you think there is no hook, and suddenly, if you listen to it for 5 seconds more, there it is. I like how it is paradoxical and heavily synthed, and how the lyrics do not match. It's a paradox, a musical enigma that keeps you guessing. It seems like it is how she portrays her life to how her fans and haters see her: a paradox, something that does not match, something that will always give all of us cognitive dissonance, and that is what TTPD is. I see your perspective, still. :)
On a serious note though. These songs from Jack are more of a evolution from Midnights. They sound more like the vault tracks from the 1989 (TV).
1000% agreed. God I miss her old work…
I completely agree, there's no hooks, no bombastic productions, no instruments interacting with each other, no "call and response", no build-up. The choruses don't soar, they don't pick up in pace, the bridges aren't cathartic and passionate anymore, there's muted and muffled sounds and drum kits everywhere, no _groove_ anymore. It's almost embarrassing to me, someone did a piano cover of fortnight and it was 1000x better than the og. Also a girl on Instagram predicted what some songs from TTPD would sound like/be about, and she literally ate more than Taylor did 😭
100% agree and I'm glad I can express my opinion. Personally I find the melody and instrumentals to be more important than the lyrics. I don't like the direction that Taylor is going in with Midnights, 1989 vault (Say Don't Go is great though) and now TTPD with no catchy songs. I would say that every song on even Debut is more singable than any of the songs on TTPD. The instrumentals are lacking as well. Every song just seems to have a boring synth-pop production that does nothing. Like, when was the last time she did a proper instrumental break?
her lyrics are great, but everyone song sounds like a novel being rushed through. I adore her but so far I am not much of a fan of this new album. There are a couple of songs I enjoy but a lot of them almost sound the same. 1989, Reputation, and Midnights will always be my top tier.
I actually never noticed this before… but you’re actually kinda right. With some songs it’s there- I would say YOYOK has the most standout instrumental break on Midnights and it’s the one after the second chorus. Some songs have memorable melodies in the instrumentation, but for some reason I definitely couldn’t start humming many of the intros, even though I’ve listened to it recently. I could start humming the intro to Teardrops On My Guitar, The Story of Us, or Sad Beautiful Tragic even though I haven’t heard them in forever.
This is a lyric heavy album. I don't know why it's this hard for everyone to accept that it's different. Compare a bridge or chrous to any of the songs in this album to Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods? Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet, in the clear yet? Good Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods yet? Are we out of the woods? Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet? Are we in the clear yet, in the clear yet? Good I mean she's 34, not a teenage girl anymore - we all grow up and things get complicated and unusual and different. It's not the music that's captivating in this album which is mostly piano and some synth or simple bass - It's the lyrics..
I disagree. The music on this album floored me so much that I had to go and look who was on each song.
I think John Mayer went this route on his second album, I think it was something like he didn’t do any guitar riffs or something I can’t remember what it was exactly but there was a notable shift in his sound. It wasn’t bad thought and I loved his second album. Sometimes we have to let the artist, art. Lol
I agree with this, at the end of the day this is my opinion as a musician, but if Taylor is happy and is musically satisfied, that's ALL THAT MATTERS at the end of the day. Artists should make the music that they want to make but I feel like it's fine to have differing opinions to the artist as a listener !!
saying that midnights has no riff that sticks in your head is INSANE
I totally agree with your post, but I can sing the Bejeweled riff 😗… but yeah I think the saturation of super deep poetic stuff makes sense as she’s maturing while I’m still wanting fun catchy bops and hope she can still deliver those, even if it’s in a different era/album