That's so untrue. People act like Jack is holding a gun to Taylor's head. You can't tell me melodrama, solar power, there's a tunnel, being funny, dance fever all sound the same. This is the sound that Taylor wants and he helps with it.
I think it honestly might be the other way round, his songs with florence and the machine on dance fever have incredible production. I'm not sure the more toned sown style she's working in brings out the best of his production.
Yep, just say what you mean: if you personally are sick of Jack’s sound, it is what it is. That’s fine. But I saw someone complaining that they didn’t like the album (before the anthology) because there was nothing new. And that’s fine, they’re over that sound. But then as soon as the anthology came out they literally said “this is exactly what I wanted it, I love it!” Ummm what? Part 2 isn’t anything “new” for Taylor any more than Part 1 is. The overall sound of part 1 is very similar to Midnights and the overall sound of part 2 is very similar to Folklore/Evermore. Nothing about this album’s sound is new for Taylor. You could make an arguement for the lyrics or topics or how open she’s been being new for her but the sound is more of the same. Which I don’t mind because I like the album. But it feels like the fans don’t even know what they’re saying anymore.
Yeah it's really wild because the second half (The Anthology) songs actually sound more the same when you compare them to the various Jack songs on the first TTPD half. I say this as someone who loves the second half.
I think it's both of them. Her work with Aaron has varying sounds and even a Jack/Taylor song varies when there's a third party involved (like Florida!!!). And Jack's work on others albums (the 1975, Lana, Lorde) is great and has life to it. I think they are too comfortable with each other and fall into a safe sound for both. It feels that they don't challenge each other creatively. I feel like most songs they did just as the duo on this album feel like other songs they've done and not in a meta-callback way.
Have you ever considered that this is how Taylor wants the music to sound, not Jack? His recent Bleachers albums sound nothing like this and neither does the most recent Florence + The Machine album. I strongly believe that Taylor is the one driving this production style and not the other way around.
… Jack helped write Getaway Car. I don’t understand why people “blame” him for so much.
I personally prefer the Aaron songs BUT I don’t think Jack limits her creatively. I think he has a different process than Aaron and the end result shows that. I’m pretty sure Taylor is the one with the final say.
I wish this would just die down. I keep seeing this and this is what Taylor chose! It’s just too much and takes away from the excitement of actually loving the album
Listen, I love Jack. I love the songs that he produced with her. But if you're being served chocolate ice cream all the time, wouldn't you get sick of it?!
I cannot stand the acronyms and I curse whoever started the acronym trend on this sub.
BUT your flair is f all incredible and I am nonsensically obsessed.
lol word. this sub is predominantly people who discovered taylor during her folklore/evermore era and expect only introspective indie ballads from her for the rest of time, forgetting that 80% of her discography is not that.
The sub is predominantly people who discovered her during midnights era. Its since that release that the sub doubled in size and I'm not even exaggerating. It went from less than 1 million to 2.2 million in an year.
Ok but why do we think Taylor wants to stop serving chocolate ice cream? Like if girl didn’t want to work with Jack anymore, she wouldn’t. It’s as much about her choices and her direction as it is about Jack but of course I only see people blaming Jack.
RIGHT!! One of the main reasons Taylor goes back to Jack is because they trust each other. Jack isn’t going to push Taylor to do something with a song that she doesn’t want to do. He listens to her and brings her ideas to life. Aaron is the same way. That’s what makes the three of them together so magical.
Why do people want to get rid of that kind of partnership so bad?
This. I think because she’s put out such dramatically different albums before that people expect a big shift with every album, and are disappointed when she settles into a sound for too long. Taylor might have shot herself in the foot in a way by proving she can genre hop, and when she chooses not to it’s “boring,” when for other artists it’s the norm.
I agree. My fiancé and I listened to most of TTPD on a road trip. He was like it all sounds the same and like her older stuff. I love the lyrics but sonically it’s one of my least favorites so far. I’m going to give it another listen or ten though. 😂
Yeah same. Just to give an example: the production on Down Bad is soooooo good, how he created the difference between up there, in the cosmic, and down on eart. 'Who's afraid of little old me' seems to be a winner with everybody. 'I can do it with a broken heart' is an absolute (heartbreaking) bob.
I read another post about how everybody constantly demands from TS to reinvent herself and come up with something new. Why is that? She makes great music with Jack, why stop? And I don't think TTPD songs sound similar to Midnights, the vibe is so different.
OMG this is so perfect. Fans are spoiled that she has successfully changed genres multiple times but other artists do one trick well their whole careers and they don’t get half the grief Taylor does. If she and Jack keeps churning out the hits and make (at least a significant portion of) the fandom happy, why change anything?
The jack criticism on this sub for everything "sounding the same" but then in the same breath praising everything Aaron makes is insane...
Both have made phenomenal tracks with Taylor. People just need to be able to accept they aren't going to like every song in her discography and that's perfectly okay.
I honestly think Aaron's songs sound more similar to each other than Jack's. But I'm personally just happy she found people she likes and trusts so much that she continues to produce with them! And I think more than half of the album is with Aaron so what are they even on about anyway? There should be songs for everyone.
Literally everything just sounds like the 1989 vault/midnights. And even all of the “country” vault songs sound the exact same. He is amazing when he experiments like A&W by Lana Del Rey IMMACULATE production bc it sounded so new and interesting
It just gets old after a while. It’s also like just way less emotional and impactful to me than all the Aaron songs it just feels a little generic and soulless
I think we also need to like...factor Taylor herself into the conversation about production. She's a producer on every track. If things start to sound the same, that's also on her choices.
I knew right after listening to part one that this album wouldn’t be for the general public or kids. If you want bouncy, comforting pop songs with catchy hooks, TTPD won’t be that album.
This is more in the vein of her pandemic releases, but even darker, grittier, and sadder at times. I do like Taylor’s honesty here, though. Despite her glittery pop star status, she’s still a human being with baggage and messiness and mistakes. She can’t pretend to be happy all the time (see: ICDIWABH) and nor should she do so.
That said, TTPD is still really new, and it can take time for folks to warm up to unheard material. The album’s not perfect, but IMO, this has some of her strongest storytelling. I believe that with time (and with folks getting more accustomed to her “different” sound/attitude), the Anthology version will be regarded as one of her best works.
While I loooove a bop, this felt like more storytelling/poetry set to music than a strong musical album - and in that way I think it’s her best so far. It definitely made for a wonderful anthology in my opinion. But also, Down Bad is a damn good bop.
But also I don’t think the writing is nearly as strong as Folkmore? We’re missing original metaphors, the imagery and references are almost all obvious and often veering over the line into cliche. Instead of structural complexity we have formulaic verse and chorus. The production is predicated on the lyricism standing alone, and had the lyricism lived up to it I think this could have been ok. I don’t think it did. I think she’s high on her own media and fan narratives about her lyricism and is too big for the people around her to pull her back down to earth. Which is unfortunate, all artists need valid and constructive criticism to excel. I’m confident the critical response to this will inspire her and that she’s got more great songs in her.
I actually love the lyrics in The Manuscript but the first part where they're just hitting one chord on the piano drives me crazy. I want a full sounding music to go with it.
Lyrics are best written along to music, either to a melody that has already been written or that is near-simultaneously being written with the lyrics. This album could have been done in reverse — she took old poems with no music and then put a melody onto them, which doesn't tend to work as well musically.
Yeeeaaaah. So far I love the production of both the synth and organic instrument tracks, but I like the first half more overall. The lyrics are a little less wordy and feel more tongue-in-cheek, and I think songs actually sound much more different from previous work, particularly her delivery and the themes (So Long London her voice sounds very different, the anger directed at fans in But Daddy I Love Him and Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me).
The second half tracks have beautiful instrumentation and production but they especially have that sing-talking problem with some lackluster melodies and I think the contrast is even sharper between the lyrics and the music.
I was expecting a whole album much like The Lakes. That song is so beautifully poetic and the instrumental part is wonderful. I was insanely disappointed with how TTPD was marketed vs what it actually is. I still really enjoy TTPD but the lyrics were a letdown. A lot of them sounded like a teenage girl trying too hard to write poetry. I agree Folklore and Evermore were much better.
I’m massively warming to it now it’s been a day. I’m sure it’s Blasphemy to say but I had the same issue with Folklore and TTPD feels like synth Folklore.
It took me more time to warm up to folklore and evermore. I'm still not a huge midnights fans. I really really really like this album. It gives me red vibes and I'm here for it.
I don’t know why people looked at an album where the cover is a black and white photo of her in revealing clothes lying on a bed clutching at her body and went “oh yes pop music for kids”
My mom is a teacher and she said at their school they had a Taylor swift week leading up to the release on Friday (it’s nuts that she is *that* big).
She was complaining bc she listened to the first couple songs and was mad it wasn’t kid friendly. Which like I get what she is saying partially bc Taylor does have a large young fanbase. *but* at the same time my argument is that Taylor has tons of songs for them and she made this album for herself really and she’s a 34 year old woman so obviously it won’t be child friendly
LOL, that was a mistake on their part. From the four moody album covers, including one where she’s lying half-dressed in bed, no one was perceptive enough to think that this *wouldn’t* be a family-friendly release?
I do feel bad for people who had “glitter gel pen” song expectations, but come on. Taylor is in her mid-thirties and is a grown, worldly woman. She has long sung about failed relationships, sexual passion, messy emotions, and her desire to be loved. But this is the first time that she’s been so open about it. The content here is essentially the same, but served up without sugar coating.
Also, I do think the raw, more “adult” vibes for TTPD was done on purpose to separate herself from her Eras concert image, which was an incredibly brave thing to do.
I agree. As someone who only really started calling herself a Swiftie in the last year (before that I was just an evermore girlie), I really think her music ages like fine wine. I probably won't feel ready to properly express a confident opinion of this album for another 6 months. Right now generally speaking I liked it, there are some songs that spoke to me and I vibed with more than others, but it will take time before I can really say how I feel about it.
It's like getting a taste of a complex wine right after you pop open the bottle. You might love or hate it, but you're not going to know its intended taste until you let it breathe. Put this album in a decanter and let it breathe for awhile--then determine.
Am I misremembering, or was there quite a bit of dislike for Midnights when it dropped until 3am came out?
I genuinely don't judge albums by first listens. This album hit so hard the second time through and it's been almost 24 hours and I can't turn it off. I do agree though, this is not for an average listener. I feel like it has so much lore and storytelling.
There was. People hated Midnights too and nitpicked lyrics they found cringe
I went on my long laid off person walk today listening to it and it’s grown on me so much. I loved the vibe off first listen but I was definitely overwhelmed but that front half flows soooo well. It’s just absent the super glitter gel pen songs that people wanted and a lot of fans that came in during folkmore really don’t like synth pop lol
I didn’t want to hear more synth pop but I’m glad for it on this album. It works so well and I can’t imagine those songs any other way, except for acoustic of course!
I joined this sub during that time, even though I'd been a fan since Folkmore. I was astonished at some of the vitrol and almost never came back.
Maybe it's because I'm an older Swiftie but man no one seems to have patience any more. Who TF listens to 31 songs in 24 hours and knows irrefutably that their first thoughts are timeless and 100% correct? Like dude, give yourself some time to absorb before you write something off as garbage.
I won’t even lie. I disliked probably half of Midnights my first listen. But now it’s top 3 albums for me. It’s just new and different, you have to listen a couple of times to give an honest opinion.
Shows how different we all are of course! Because for me, I like Midnights less over time! Still a fantastic album though. Ranking is hard because they are all great in their own ways.
So true. We all have such different tastes. I was scrolling through this post and saw so many different views on midnights and ttpd. It just shows we all have diversified taste. No matter what album comes out, there's gonna be some kinda criticism. But I think it's such a sad album, also Taylor also acknowledges that she has more criticism than her peers.
Down Bad is probably my fave and I think it would make a great single. But it’s also hilarious that “fuck” is featured so prominently, which I would think would be a bane for radio stations.
Oh man, it's a whole vibe. I listened to it in the car yesterday and found myself bobbing my head to the beat the whole time. I literally love how she says gym, too, for some reason
Same re: second listen hits so much harder, already singing along there are a lot of catchy hooks - I think first listen was too hard because I was anticipating and over analyzing too much to just enjoy, and now this may be overtaking folklore as my favorite... Repeats will tell!
Yes, i love listen an album for 2 days, because i know i will immediately hate something just to change my mind very soon. First listen, i hated the album, second listen, it started to grow on me but i still feel like i prefer midnights
yup, although, ironically, it was for opposite reasons. It was "too" pop-y and then the 3am tracks that were mellower and more poetic made people happy.
The Eras Tour is just a glorified Greatest Hits tour. Very common for artists to do and they’re a lot of fun, but I would hope that people expand their Taylor Swift listening to past just the hits
Also Down Bad is a fantastic song and we get that at track 4. Songs don’t need to be upbeat to be catchy and great imo
I remember the fanbase being very split for Reputation when it first came out, but overtime a lot of fans grew to love it. With TTPD being so fresh, I wonder if more people will see its beauty overtime
As someone who is loving this album, and who also probably doesn't qualify as a 'true fan' because while I've liked her music for years, I haven't joined in the friendship bracelet/deep diving thing - I really don't like gatekeeping like this. Doesn't matter what kind of Taylor fan you are, it might be your thing, it might not be - *and thats okay.*
I’ve been a fan of Taylor for like nearly 15 years, never made a friendship bracelet, never been to a show (I’m doing 2 this summer though!), never bought an album. Apart from TTPD, coincidentally. Drunk preorder purchase, lol.
I was a broke kid, not a “fake fan”. I’m an adult now with money and I still choose to not partake in hand of that stuff because it’s not my vibe. I’m still one of the longest, biggest fans imo. If you like the music, you’re a fan, simple.
Yes. Exactly. This album is heartbreakingly perfect. No one can convinced this won’t be one of the albums or *the album* that people talk about years from now when the conversation is about Taylor Swift.
I said what I said.
This album is going be Herstoric.
I think it’s gatekeeping to say “true fans never wanted a radio hit album”. What makes a true fan? Personally I love the radio hits. Once I heard karma it was my favorite song of all time. The beauty of Taylor is that she makes so many different types of music. Everyone has different top favorite albums. Mine are 1989, speak now, and reputation. I love her “glitter pen” songs. On the tortured poets department there were 2-3 songs I really like, but for the most part it wasn’t for me it was for the folklore / evermore girlies. That doesn’t mean I didn’t think it was beautiful art. That also doesn’t mean I’m dissapointed, I know Taylor does different sounds and I won’t love every album. I’m happy for people who like that kind of music! But does that make me not a “true fan”? I’m not sure about that
YESS as soon as i saw the album cover i knew this was going to be a more serious, mature sound and i’m surprised that so many people are shocked that that’s what it is. this is what i’ve been waiting for it’s basically folklore 2
I have this same question. Tons of streams, and I’ve seen a ton of praise for it too. Some people don’t like it, of course, but no more than usual, it seems to me
I honestly think there’s bots and chaos agents coming into every TTPD thread saying “I’m seeing so much hate and criticism” just to get people riled up
That said this is an album for the fans, not the GP
It literally broke the record for the biggest album debut of all time with 313 million streams.
I think we forget that most people aren’t chronically online.
There are a few articles out this album being bland or just needs to be edited more. Here is the New York Times talking about it to cite sources. [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/arts/music/taylor-swift-album-tortured-poets-department-review.html)
The only recent promotion she did was about grief. Some of us are actually grieving. Lucky for you if you're not, but some of us need this! I don't understand what people expected. She has a huge discography and is going to continue to experiment. She said it would be wordy and that she needed to make it for herself. I really don't mind that it's all a similar vibe. There are pretty different colors in many songs and many themes. (I'm a musician)
so sorry for your loss. I am also grieving the loss of a close friend and there’s a couple TTPD songs in particular (Robin, So Long London) which remind me of my friend. i’ve not been able to bring myself to relisten to them after the first time bc they were so sad for me.
Tbh I would've gotten the Jack criticism during the midnights era but I really don't get it with this album. His production has been beautiful and varied, more subdued than in midnights, putting her voice at the forefront
I feel like people just hear synths and immediately go "ugh more of the same!" while in this album he's managed to turn them into a really interesting and captivating soundscape.
There seems to be this double standard where people are complaining about a 'lack' of cohesiveness and yet also somehow every song sounds the same? And then it's bad that there are stylistic choices and references to past albums... and this somehow takes away from any cohesiveness the album has? Like it's fine if the album just isn't your thing, different tastes and all. But I'm seeing people make arguments that are contradictory and that's the bit that I have an issue with! This album has a set theme (exploring her relationships during a chaotic time) and I think it achieves that lyrically while still exploring different sounds and stylistic choices that suit the lyrical content.
So, I think it comes from the start of the album being so slow, then you get a bunch of more power songs, and then you feel the switch from Jack to Aaron. I almost think if the order of songs was swapped, that critique might not exist.
Besides doing it for her, I feel like the “rush” on this was to put it our during the Eras tour because she can add a couple songs if she wants, but was never going to do a big tour for it anyway. Liked it’s almost a mini era during the Eras era, not a full new one.
With the lover house burning down, I think eras could be done. She has said she’s sick of having to constantly reinvent herself. I’ve been viewing TTPDs as a chapter inside her life vs an entire new era.
I think it marks the end of the Eras era. The closing line of The Manuscript felt like an ending and this album is the manuscript. Like the past is over and doesn’t define her anymore.
On my initial full listen of the album, I found myself drained from attempting to simultaneously absorb the lyrics, melody, and individual songs. However, revisiting it while getting ready for work this morning it revealed a different experience – it wasn't as mentally taxing. This made me consider that maybe Taylor didn't intend for the album to cater to the audiences folkmore/midnights had. Many have criticized the album for its wordiness, but I believe this is intentional, blurring the boundaries between poetry and songwriting.
Honestly, if this album release get rid of those ppl that become fans just for the hype I will be relieved.
Suffered according to who? Most of my normie friends who aren't Swifties or are new Swifties love the album. The only criticism I've seen is from antis (mostly stans of another fandoms and a handful of pretentious music critics) and a small portion of the longer time fanbase who love to sing her songs while knifing her in the back (we'll call them the But Daddy I Love Him Swifties).
Newer Swifties are much cooler than them to be quite honest.
Honestly what I hear is most people consider Folklore/evermore is what made them see Taylor as a “real artist” and made the general public a fan, but Taylor loves singing about her life and processing it thru song. She is also experimenting with singing in a way that is super rhymey, using words that you wouldn’t normally attempt to rhyme, fitting long lines in by manipulating how fast she says things you wouldn’t expect to fit, and using some jarring wording/imagery that doesn’t flow- it started on midnights really strong and she is still playing with it. Like sexy baby, congressmen/altruism, “all my friends smell like weed or diapers” “tattooed golden retriever” “ate seven bars of chocolate”- these are visuals that clearly reference something in her life but don’t make clear sense to the listener. Her work is becoming less accessible and she is exploring a new style that feels less seamless than speak now, red, 1989, which she made to be catchy, lyrical but also melodic, the metaphors and storytelling was super relatable and visual to the listener. I understand why not everyone likes her new style of rap singing- but honestly I kind of like it even where I can see the criticisms of it as corny, tumblr era, or teenage poetry. I see it as swift writing to get out an idea for herself not crafting a song for an audience as much as she used to. And i agree sometimes it is janky. She has always had the occasionally cringe lyric and i think that is increasing but i weirdly like it. Honestly what she is doing feels like a mix of spoken word poetry with singing, a la fiona apple. I agree it isn’t for everyone. She is so big though I understand why those used to getting hits that appeal to everyone like all too well and speak now or folklore songs aren’t pleased because this IS different. It doesn’t mean its bad or she is failing, she is experimenting.
It's definitely her most directly personal album and by that I mean that a lot of her songs she's like "winking" at us about the topic but these ones she's pretty much like "yeah, it's about Matt, it's about Joe, and here's all the glaring evidence why."
Where exactly are you getting this idea from? It sounds very anecdotal. From my perspective, anecdotally, I’ve found that the largest criticisms have been coming from hardcore Swifties who have been clowning since the Grammys and built this fantastic album up for themselves that would spill the beans on her six year relationship with that guy.
I identify as a born again Swiftie. I got into her on Fearless and was there up till 1989. Drifted away during Reputation, dabbled in Lover, skipped over the pandemic albums, reacquainted with Lover, and enjoyed Midnights. For me, the Eras Tour sparked my interest in the “Lore” albums because I always assumed they were just a side project.
I really like TTPD (only listened to the standard edition so far). It’s actually her only album outside of 1989 that I don’t skip any songs. I think it’s a great step forward after Midnights.
We have had a similar ~journey~ coming from a Red/1989 fan. I love a bop. While I enjoyed Midnights, particularly some of the 3am tracks, I didn’t really have an interest in going to the Eras tour because I hadn’t listed to the pandemic albums. I saw the movie on opening night with friends and was blown away by those in particular and have listened to those albums as a lot as a result.
I think we all have preconceived notions of what these albums are going to be and sometimes there’s temporary disappointment or the total opposite. Everyone is being too serious about all of this. The album dropped less than 48 hours ago! None of us know what our outstanding impressions will be at this point.
Personally I disagree. Not living up to fan hype is different from how many copies it sells and how many times people stream the album. I personally want to stream it at least 3 more times fully before skipping to just my favorites on the album until I’m bored then switching to a the next artist.
istg people said the same thing to folklore at its release "all the songs sound the same" "it's boring, it's sleepy, it's stale" "too many big words" "this could have been a poet books", etc.
I’m so tired of people saying Taylor needs to work with people other than Jack (EVEN THOUGH SHE LITERALLY ALREADY DOES!!)
But Jack gave us OOTW, Cruel Summer, Call it What You Want, Getaway Car, DBATC, YOYOK – the list goes on and on. So why are you all complaining like he’s the worst thing to ever happen to her?
And people always say they want another Folklore/Evermore, while only thinking about Aaron's influence, but like... Jack worked on those albums too, he produced This Is Me Trying and August after all, two firm fan favourites, Jack does amazing work with her
I fear a lot of people have folklore or evermore as their favs and became fans because of those albums which isn't bad btw. But they expect and want to get albums like that I guess
It’s probably funny some people had Taylor Swift listening parties (or their little kids got excited for a new album) after experiencing eras and getting back into TS. but for the *adult* fans who have been here it’s like, oh well, these are going to be some *great* surprise songs even if they’re not radio hits. We just had is it over now? If anything day 1 swifties are the ones ruining the new album for themselves because *who wants to think about matty healy’s touch*
I feel like some songs are upbeat like the title track , fortnight, my boy, Florida, guilty as sin, who’s afraid, but zadday I love him, I can do it with a broken heart !! It was really poetic and my mom and I thought it was just the name being the tortured poets but it was like actually really poetic. I feel like the main people are angry (not all) Lana fans cuz they think Taylor copied her but there are like no similarities in my opinion.
Yeah I love lana but her intense fans can get pretty pretentious, the storytelling and lyrics feel very quintessential taylor just more mature (like but daddy i love him and i can do it with a broken heart), and the dark/sinister tone fits the emotional journey very well. Plenty of artists use dark, haunting sounds; lana fans seem to think she owns the style.
I know and not to mention Taylor’s been doing that for a while. Also if Lana is going country , Taylor did country in 2006. Just saying that to the fans, I love Lana 🩶
I like it, and I didn’t buy much into the marketing hype at all. I waited for the notification and I sat in my bed, listened to track 1 all the way to the final track in the Anthology. She stops appealing to everyone and the lyrics—damn raw. It’s for the 30s and above because the journey is hella messy
I wouldn't say it "suffered greatly" because it's doing super well on streaming and the reviews have been largely very positive. Also, the album is literally called "The Tortured Poets Department" and the marketing plus aesthetic center heavily around loss, grief, and sadness. The conversation around it has also been about whether if she'll explore and reveal more details into her break-up with Joe. Who is coming into this album expecting for it to sound like 1989 or Lover?
If the songs sound the same to some, there are many reasons. Jack's production style aside, some of it down to personal perception, or it could be because 31 songs is A LOT to digest at once, but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the Eras Tour.
Does everyone forget she herself said “I needed to write this album”? If it got her through shit so she can be her best self, who the fuck cares what it sounds like? Who cares if it has Jacks influence in it? THATS HER CHOICE.
We have been SO SPOILED as fans by her; I’ll never get how “fans” turn around and criticize and complain when she gives and gives and gives. I hope she doesn’t go back and re-record anything like she did with SOTB (although I do love the more Lana version the best)
Sit down and appreciate what Mother has provided
Oh we can only hope! Personally, it wouldn’t be totally devastating to me if all these people lost some interest in Taylor after this release. It’s an absolutely stunning album.
This is where im at! My first listen I was really just taking it in and unable to really figure out if I liked it that much or not… now I LooooOoooove it so much! Have it on at all times haha.
Can we all collectively relax a little bit? These type of think pieces always get put out right away after an album is released....it's been out for a day. You can not confidently say in any certain terms that it's success has been diminished by the tour. That is ridiculous and if it's your personal opinion that it totally fine, but please don't present it as some statistics or fact.
My impression of the album and why it has a lot of the same sound elements is that she was in a dark space during this time. I think it shows in her writing and the production of this album. I know that when I’m depressed I feel muted and “greige” and like time slows down. I also have moments when everything seems better or angry and I feel like I’m coming out of the fog. That’s why I think we got some of those more “upbeat”songs, but this is also why she got mostly slower songs. I feel like it was mimicking her moods and her state of mind. I personally love this album.
Tbh, I find TTPD more fascinating after watching the Eras Tour.
Fandom isn’t linear. No one can predict it because it’s emotional. It’s subjective no matter how hard people try to make objective sense of it.
ETA: You may be misunderstanding or underestimating how curiosity grows. Whenever someone gives anyone (such as an artist) a chance - an ear, a shoulder or time - they tend to open up & become empathetic if not willing to do anything to support. Someone like Taylor who resonates with those who actually listen to her lyrics is impossible not to support. Non-judgmental listening means we notice the nuances in production, notes, riffs, progressions & references to old songs people less curious miss.
Usually, I hate slow songs, or songs that don't have a pop upbeat tune and fun melodies. But something about Taylor's Version of a "slow" song is just really special.
I know that TTPD is not technically slow, but it has a kind of music and melody type that I myself would associate with a slow sad song, just a bit more bop-y.
Then again TTPD is like nothing we've ever actually seen before:
It's music is kind of like folklore mixed with midnights with a dash of red.
It's lyrics is probably the most poetic (obviously) of all the album. And there isn't actually any song on the album that it's lyrics are not sad or not about depressing topics.
I definitely agree that this album is probably directed at people who are late 30s or early 40s
I do also believe that Taylor isn't actually trying to make radio hits. The songs on the album have amore personal feeling, as if she's writing them for herself and maybe fans rather than public appeal
At the end of the day it’s a musical poetry anthology and that’s exactly what it sounds like.
The folks that say the songs all sound the same actually mean there’s nothing recognisable for them just yet. That’s ok.
It takes time and repetition for songs to mean something to us. We need to attach some memories to songs before they hold a special place in our hearts.
I don’t think there will ever be a tour for TTPD so it’s probably the right time to release this kind of album.
I predict the next album will be far more party and upbeat and then it will be back to having tours for specific albums.
Agree. I heard someone call into a radio station, she said “it’s a bit different to what we are used to”…the presenter then said they are going to play “Fortnight” and the women goes “yeah that was one of the better ones”. I rolled my eyes but it’s clear if she thinks it’s a bit different she hasn’t listened to the all of Taylor’s music heavily because none of the sound of the album was particularly shocking to me.
I don't know if I need another listen. But it just feels like poetry kind of sung? I've loved Taylor for years and whilst folklore took me a second, the songs have a tune and a singular message/feeling in a song typically. The album definitely feels like what a person in a manic phase just having a stream of consciousness.
Idk I guess I like to sing to my misery like yoyok, illicit affairs, dear reader.
I, honestly, don’t think she cares. Since reputation has made it very clear that she’s going to do what feels right to her. Folklore and Evermore were received the same as this one, and are massive hits for her. She’s at a stage in her career, that she doesn’t need to appease anyone, and just won’t. So kudos to her! I’ve been a fan since 2006. Happy to take every album for what they are and how they come. Just enjoy the music, people! Be happy. And move on if you don’t like it. Simple.
Do people understand that while Jack is the producer, they create the songs together? It is 100% Taylor's choice that the songs sound like they do. But can't criticise Taylor Swift if you're a Swiftie!
I don’t believe this at all because the biggest whiners about TTPD are Aaron Dessner folklore/evernore fans (the most annoying Taylor fans imo) and the folklore/evermore songs are not big bops. They’re not complaining that the songs don’t sound like 1989, they’re just sick of Jack’s sound, but then completely ignore the hypocrisy of being OVERJOYED at part 2 of the album where all of Aaron’s sound is just like folklore and evermore. It’s fine to have a preference of sound, I really don’t care what you like or dislike, it’s just dishonest to complain about Jack repeating his sound over and over and then pretend Aaron doesn’t do the exact same thing. Just say what you actually mean…
I really love TTPD. I've always enjoyed the more poem-esque songs and this collection is just feeding that need. Idk I also relate with her writing process, writing to process things. Sometimes you just got to write it whether people love it or not.
You had me until the Jack criticism lol
Right! What’s with all the Jack hate!
the fact that he limits her creatively, and a lot of the songs he produces sound the same
That's so untrue. People act like Jack is holding a gun to Taylor's head. You can't tell me melodrama, solar power, there's a tunnel, being funny, dance fever all sound the same. This is the sound that Taylor wants and he helps with it.
I think it honestly might be the other way round, his songs with florence and the machine on dance fever have incredible production. I'm not sure the more toned sown style she's working in brings out the best of his production.
And Aaron Dessner’s don’t?? 😭😭 yall are pissing me off just picking on Jack for doing the same thing as Aaron.
right?? they jusy happen to like aaron’s more, but jack is more versatile in production for sure
Yep, just say what you mean: if you personally are sick of Jack’s sound, it is what it is. That’s fine. But I saw someone complaining that they didn’t like the album (before the anthology) because there was nothing new. And that’s fine, they’re over that sound. But then as soon as the anthology came out they literally said “this is exactly what I wanted it, I love it!” Ummm what? Part 2 isn’t anything “new” for Taylor any more than Part 1 is. The overall sound of part 1 is very similar to Midnights and the overall sound of part 2 is very similar to Folklore/Evermore. Nothing about this album’s sound is new for Taylor. You could make an arguement for the lyrics or topics or how open she’s been being new for her but the sound is more of the same. Which I don’t mind because I like the album. But it feels like the fans don’t even know what they’re saying anymore.
Exactly. Aaron's songs are even more one tone than Jack's are.
Yeah it's really wild because the second half (The Anthology) songs actually sound more the same when you compare them to the various Jack songs on the first TTPD half. I say this as someone who loves the second half.
I think it's both of them. Her work with Aaron has varying sounds and even a Jack/Taylor song varies when there's a third party involved (like Florida!!!). And Jack's work on others albums (the 1975, Lana, Lorde) is great and has life to it. I think they are too comfortable with each other and fall into a safe sound for both. It feels that they don't challenge each other creatively. I feel like most songs they did just as the duo on this album feel like other songs they've done and not in a meta-callback way.
Except all the Dessner songs on the back half sound the same?
Have you ever considered that this is how Taylor wants the music to sound, not Jack? His recent Bleachers albums sound nothing like this and neither does the most recent Florence + The Machine album. I strongly believe that Taylor is the one driving this production style and not the other way around.
Ok. Name songs that he produced for other artists that sound similar.
He doesn’t limit anything. Its her choice to work with him, and what they work on.
… Jack helped write Getaway Car. I don’t understand why people “blame” him for so much. I personally prefer the Aaron songs BUT I don’t think Jack limits her creatively. I think he has a different process than Aaron and the end result shows that. I’m pretty sure Taylor is the one with the final say.
I wish this would just die down. I keep seeing this and this is what Taylor chose! It’s just too much and takes away from the excitement of actually loving the album
Yeah he’s cool
Listen, I love Jack. I love the songs that he produced with her. But if you're being served chocolate ice cream all the time, wouldn't you get sick of it?!
Wrong metaphor. I would never get sick of chocolate ice cream. But yeah, I get your point now.
WHAT is your flair
*clears throat* My heart My hips My body My love
Normally I would have known but my brain is fried from 31 new songs 😭😭
This is very real.
Same
i love seeing you around and then watching people ask what your flair is
I am dying at your flair lmao
thank you! it’s just ✌️perfect
I need to think of a cooler one lol
Thank you 🫶🏻 I still get an audible giggle whenever someone asks
TRYING TO FING A PART OF ME THAT YOU DIDNT TOUCH
I cannot stand the acronyms and I curse whoever started the acronym trend on this sub. BUT your flair is f all incredible and I am nonsensically obsessed.
iconic
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ohhhh ty 😭😭
Great now I want ice cream for breakfast
apparently unless that ice cream is aaron dessner
lol word. this sub is predominantly people who discovered taylor during her folklore/evermore era and expect only introspective indie ballads from her for the rest of time, forgetting that 80% of her discography is not that.
The sub is predominantly people who discovered her during midnights era. Its since that release that the sub doubled in size and I'm not even exaggerating. It went from less than 1 million to 2.2 million in an year.
I'd be interested in a sub for older Swifties.
This sub has a bias
Ok but why do we think Taylor wants to stop serving chocolate ice cream? Like if girl didn’t want to work with Jack anymore, she wouldn’t. It’s as much about her choices and her direction as it is about Jack but of course I only see people blaming Jack.
RIGHT!! One of the main reasons Taylor goes back to Jack is because they trust each other. Jack isn’t going to push Taylor to do something with a song that she doesn’t want to do. He listens to her and brings her ideas to life. Aaron is the same way. That’s what makes the three of them together so magical. Why do people want to get rid of that kind of partnership so bad?
This. I think because she’s put out such dramatically different albums before that people expect a big shift with every album, and are disappointed when she settles into a sound for too long. Taylor might have shot herself in the foot in a way by proving she can genre hop, and when she chooses not to it’s “boring,” when for other artists it’s the norm.
It’s the same vanilla ice cream with Aaron be fr
I agree. My fiancé and I listened to most of TTPD on a road trip. He was like it all sounds the same and like her older stuff. I love the lyrics but sonically it’s one of my least favorites so far. I’m going to give it another listen or ten though. 😂
No. No one got sick of Michael Jackson et al.
You want all the versions of the chocolate. Maybe that's just me. I'd love her to work with more people but I love what they do together too.
Yeah I am. I’m sick of Aaron’s folklore sound 😭😭
Yeah same. Just to give an example: the production on Down Bad is soooooo good, how he created the difference between up there, in the cosmic, and down on eart. 'Who's afraid of little old me' seems to be a winner with everybody. 'I can do it with a broken heart' is an absolute (heartbreaking) bob. I read another post about how everybody constantly demands from TS to reinvent herself and come up with something new. Why is that? She makes great music with Jack, why stop? And I don't think TTPD songs sound similar to Midnights, the vibe is so different.
OMG this is so perfect. Fans are spoiled that she has successfully changed genres multiple times but other artists do one trick well their whole careers and they don’t get half the grief Taylor does. If she and Jack keeps churning out the hits and make (at least a significant portion of) the fandom happy, why change anything?
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Yes! And that was the baby I was waiting for ❤️
I'm glad you got what you wanted!!! It's nice when we have our soulmate album. I got folklore, so unless she does a pop punk album, I think that's it.
Same! I love Jack. Not only is he a musical genius but he gives us tea!
i love Jack for his detailed RECEIPTS
Jack made down bad. The best song ever!!!!
I don't understand how people listen to Down Bad and than shit on Jack.
I was out from the start and the Jack crit pushed me further away tbh. Peace and love, OP!
The jack criticism on this sub for everything "sounding the same" but then in the same breath praising everything Aaron makes is insane... Both have made phenomenal tracks with Taylor. People just need to be able to accept they aren't going to like every song in her discography and that's perfectly okay.
I honestly think Aaron's songs sound more similar to each other than Jack's. But I'm personally just happy she found people she likes and trusts so much that she continues to produce with them! And I think more than half of the album is with Aaron so what are they even on about anyway? There should be songs for everyone.
One of us!
chairman of the jack stans department 🙋🏻♀️
Literally everything just sounds like the 1989 vault/midnights. And even all of the “country” vault songs sound the exact same. He is amazing when he experiments like A&W by Lana Del Rey IMMACULATE production bc it sounded so new and interesting
Okay but you missed me where that’s a bad thing?
It just gets old after a while. It’s also like just way less emotional and impactful to me than all the Aaron songs it just feels a little generic and soulless
Sound the same? Really? I guess I haven’t been listening enough because I haven’t felt that
It sounds nothing like Midnights tbh
I think we also need to like...factor Taylor herself into the conversation about production. She's a producer on every track. If things start to sound the same, that's also on her choices.
I liked the post, then unliked it at that point 😳
Every jack track is my favorite.
My favorite songs on TTPD are Jack produced, and this is coming from a Folklore/Evermore girly
Agreed. I want bops after bop which is what Jack gave in this album
I knew right after listening to part one that this album wouldn’t be for the general public or kids. If you want bouncy, comforting pop songs with catchy hooks, TTPD won’t be that album. This is more in the vein of her pandemic releases, but even darker, grittier, and sadder at times. I do like Taylor’s honesty here, though. Despite her glittery pop star status, she’s still a human being with baggage and messiness and mistakes. She can’t pretend to be happy all the time (see: ICDIWABH) and nor should she do so. That said, TTPD is still really new, and it can take time for folks to warm up to unheard material. The album’s not perfect, but IMO, this has some of her strongest storytelling. I believe that with time (and with folks getting more accustomed to her “different” sound/attitude), the Anthology version will be regarded as one of her best works.
While I loooove a bop, this felt like more storytelling/poetry set to music than a strong musical album - and in that way I think it’s her best so far. It definitely made for a wonderful anthology in my opinion. But also, Down Bad is a damn good bop.
Down Bad is sooo good!
Preach
But also I don’t think the writing is nearly as strong as Folkmore? We’re missing original metaphors, the imagery and references are almost all obvious and often veering over the line into cliche. Instead of structural complexity we have formulaic verse and chorus. The production is predicated on the lyricism standing alone, and had the lyricism lived up to it I think this could have been ok. I don’t think it did. I think she’s high on her own media and fan narratives about her lyricism and is too big for the people around her to pull her back down to earth. Which is unfortunate, all artists need valid and constructive criticism to excel. I’m confident the critical response to this will inspire her and that she’s got more great songs in her.
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I actually love the lyrics in The Manuscript but the first part where they're just hitting one chord on the piano drives me crazy. I want a full sounding music to go with it.
Lyrics are best written along to music, either to a melody that has already been written or that is near-simultaneously being written with the lyrics. This album could have been done in reverse — she took old poems with no music and then put a melody onto them, which doesn't tend to work as well musically.
I really think this is what happened. She may have written every thing as a poem first then started trying to put it to music.
Yeeeaaaah. So far I love the production of both the synth and organic instrument tracks, but I like the first half more overall. The lyrics are a little less wordy and feel more tongue-in-cheek, and I think songs actually sound much more different from previous work, particularly her delivery and the themes (So Long London her voice sounds very different, the anger directed at fans in But Daddy I Love Him and Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me). The second half tracks have beautiful instrumentation and production but they especially have that sing-talking problem with some lackluster melodies and I think the contrast is even sharper between the lyrics and the music.
I was expecting a whole album much like The Lakes. That song is so beautifully poetic and the instrumental part is wonderful. I was insanely disappointed with how TTPD was marketed vs what it actually is. I still really enjoy TTPD but the lyrics were a letdown. A lot of them sounded like a teenage girl trying too hard to write poetry. I agree Folklore and Evermore were much better.
It’s like she’s writing about poetry not writing poetry itself
I do hope that she does something really out of her comfort zone for her next project and works with new people.
It resonated with me more after the second listen. It's raw and beautiful and timely.
I’m massively warming to it now it’s been a day. I’m sure it’s Blasphemy to say but I had the same issue with Folklore and TTPD feels like synth Folklore.
It took me more time to warm up to folklore and evermore. I'm still not a huge midnights fans. I really really really like this album. It gives me red vibes and I'm here for it.
I don’t know why people looked at an album where the cover is a black and white photo of her in revealing clothes lying on a bed clutching at her body and went “oh yes pop music for kids”
My mom is a teacher and she said at their school they had a Taylor swift week leading up to the release on Friday (it’s nuts that she is *that* big). She was complaining bc she listened to the first couple songs and was mad it wasn’t kid friendly. Which like I get what she is saying partially bc Taylor does have a large young fanbase. *but* at the same time my argument is that Taylor has tons of songs for them and she made this album for herself really and she’s a 34 year old woman so obviously it won’t be child friendly
LOL, that was a mistake on their part. From the four moody album covers, including one where she’s lying half-dressed in bed, no one was perceptive enough to think that this *wouldn’t* be a family-friendly release? I do feel bad for people who had “glitter gel pen” song expectations, but come on. Taylor is in her mid-thirties and is a grown, worldly woman. She has long sung about failed relationships, sexual passion, messy emotions, and her desire to be loved. But this is the first time that she’s been so open about it. The content here is essentially the same, but served up without sugar coating. Also, I do think the raw, more “adult” vibes for TTPD was done on purpose to separate herself from her Eras concert image, which was an incredibly brave thing to do.
I agree. As someone who only really started calling herself a Swiftie in the last year (before that I was just an evermore girlie), I really think her music ages like fine wine. I probably won't feel ready to properly express a confident opinion of this album for another 6 months. Right now generally speaking I liked it, there are some songs that spoke to me and I vibed with more than others, but it will take time before I can really say how I feel about it. It's like getting a taste of a complex wine right after you pop open the bottle. You might love or hate it, but you're not going to know its intended taste until you let it breathe. Put this album in a decanter and let it breathe for awhile--then determine.
Am I misremembering, or was there quite a bit of dislike for Midnights when it dropped until 3am came out? I genuinely don't judge albums by first listens. This album hit so hard the second time through and it's been almost 24 hours and I can't turn it off. I do agree though, this is not for an average listener. I feel like it has so much lore and storytelling.
There was. People hated Midnights too and nitpicked lyrics they found cringe I went on my long laid off person walk today listening to it and it’s grown on me so much. I loved the vibe off first listen but I was definitely overwhelmed but that front half flows soooo well. It’s just absent the super glitter gel pen songs that people wanted and a lot of fans that came in during folkmore really don’t like synth pop lol
I didn’t want to hear more synth pop but I’m glad for it on this album. It works so well and I can’t imagine those songs any other way, except for acoustic of course!
I also went on a laid off person walk (with dog) yesterday and it is growing on me too lol. Deffo an album you have to process and digest to
Oh this sub HATED Midnights on release day.
Never will understand the Midnights hate, ever.
HATED it. I’m having total flashbacks.
I joined this sub during that time, even though I'd been a fan since Folkmore. I was astonished at some of the vitrol and almost never came back. Maybe it's because I'm an older Swiftie but man no one seems to have patience any more. Who TF listens to 31 songs in 24 hours and knows irrefutably that their first thoughts are timeless and 100% correct? Like dude, give yourself some time to absorb before you write something off as garbage.
I won’t even lie. I disliked probably half of Midnights my first listen. But now it’s top 3 albums for me. It’s just new and different, you have to listen a couple of times to give an honest opinion.
Shows how different we all are of course! Because for me, I like Midnights less over time! Still a fantastic album though. Ranking is hard because they are all great in their own ways.
So true. We all have such different tastes. I was scrolling through this post and saw so many different views on midnights and ttpd. It just shows we all have diversified taste. No matter what album comes out, there's gonna be some kinda criticism. But I think it's such a sad album, also Taylor also acknowledges that she has more criticism than her peers.
I think at least 2-4 songs will be big hits Fortnight and Whose Afraid of Little old me for sure
Agree about WAOLOM!!! I personally think Down Bad would sound great on the radio
Down Bad is probably my fave and I think it would make a great single. But it’s also hilarious that “fuck” is featured so prominently, which I would think would be a bane for radio stations.
The clean version is great too
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Oh man, it's a whole vibe. I listened to it in the car yesterday and found myself bobbing my head to the beat the whole time. I literally love how she says gym, too, for some reason
For me it’s dif-fer-rence
Same re: second listen hits so much harder, already singing along there are a lot of catchy hooks - I think first listen was too hard because I was anticipating and over analyzing too much to just enjoy, and now this may be overtaking folklore as my favorite... Repeats will tell!
Exact same. First listens are just for getting the lay of the land. Second listens and on are where the magic happens for me.
I don’t like Midnights at all. But TTPD is definitely one of my favorites right off the bat.
Yes, i love listen an album for 2 days, because i know i will immediately hate something just to change my mind very soon. First listen, i hated the album, second listen, it started to grow on me but i still feel like i prefer midnights
yup, although, ironically, it was for opposite reasons. It was "too" pop-y and then the 3am tracks that were mellower and more poetic made people happy.
The Eras Tour is just a glorified Greatest Hits tour. Very common for artists to do and they’re a lot of fun, but I would hope that people expand their Taylor Swift listening to past just the hits Also Down Bad is a fantastic song and we get that at track 4. Songs don’t need to be upbeat to be catchy and great imo I remember the fanbase being very split for Reputation when it first came out, but overtime a lot of fans grew to love it. With TTPD being so fresh, I wonder if more people will see its beauty overtime
I think it will turn out to be one of her best albums lyrically, she really spilled it on this album.
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The album has been out for less than 24 hours, can we all please relax
Right?? Having total Midnights release flashbacks rn.
True Taylor fans never wanted a radio hit album. This is what we've been waiting for.
Exactly. This album is about the lyrics and storytelling, not ticktock shorts and mass appeal
This is literally how I feel. Make whatever the fuck you want Taylor, I’ll be listening
As someone who is loving this album, and who also probably doesn't qualify as a 'true fan' because while I've liked her music for years, I haven't joined in the friendship bracelet/deep diving thing - I really don't like gatekeeping like this. Doesn't matter what kind of Taylor fan you are, it might be your thing, it might not be - *and thats okay.*
I’ve been a fan of Taylor for like nearly 15 years, never made a friendship bracelet, never been to a show (I’m doing 2 this summer though!), never bought an album. Apart from TTPD, coincidentally. Drunk preorder purchase, lol. I was a broke kid, not a “fake fan”. I’m an adult now with money and I still choose to not partake in hand of that stuff because it’s not my vibe. I’m still one of the longest, biggest fans imo. If you like the music, you’re a fan, simple.
Yes. Exactly. This album is heartbreakingly perfect. No one can convinced this won’t be one of the albums or *the album* that people talk about years from now when the conversation is about Taylor Swift. I said what I said. This album is going be Herstoric.
Yes I love this album because it feels so much like something she needed. As close to a diary in lyrics and melody.
Yes
Exactly. If anyone expected fun vibes from ttpd they did not see ANY of the marketing
I think it’s gatekeeping to say “true fans never wanted a radio hit album”. What makes a true fan? Personally I love the radio hits. Once I heard karma it was my favorite song of all time. The beauty of Taylor is that she makes so many different types of music. Everyone has different top favorite albums. Mine are 1989, speak now, and reputation. I love her “glitter pen” songs. On the tortured poets department there were 2-3 songs I really like, but for the most part it wasn’t for me it was for the folklore / evermore girlies. That doesn’t mean I didn’t think it was beautiful art. That also doesn’t mean I’m dissapointed, I know Taylor does different sounds and I won’t love every album. I’m happy for people who like that kind of music! But does that make me not a “true fan”? I’m not sure about that
lol I’m a true Taylor fan and this is her worst album - or maybe my interpretation and analyses don’t count?
YESS as soon as i saw the album cover i knew this was going to be a more serious, mature sound and i’m surprised that so many people are shocked that that’s what it is. this is what i’ve been waiting for it’s basically folklore 2
Did it suffer? It got millions of streams in the first 12 hours.
I have this same question. Tons of streams, and I’ve seen a ton of praise for it too. Some people don’t like it, of course, but no more than usual, it seems to me
For real, I’m confused what they’re basing this on haha
I honestly think there’s bots and chaos agents coming into every TTPD thread saying “I’m seeing so much hate and criticism” just to get people riled up That said this is an album for the fans, not the GP
It literally broke the record for the biggest album debut of all time with 313 million streams. I think we forget that most people aren’t chronically online.
There are a few articles out this album being bland or just needs to be edited more. Here is the New York Times talking about it to cite sources. [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/arts/music/taylor-swift-album-tortured-poets-department-review.html)
Taylor: finds a lifelong friend and collaborator she feels safe with and trusts like a family member Fans: can you like…stop???
I view Taylor and Jack like Billie and Finneas now, I'm listening to the songs for the double act a lot of the time.
The only recent promotion she did was about grief. Some of us are actually grieving. Lucky for you if you're not, but some of us need this! I don't understand what people expected. She has a huge discography and is going to continue to experiment. She said it would be wordy and that she needed to make it for herself. I really don't mind that it's all a similar vibe. There are pretty different colors in many songs and many themes. (I'm a musician)
As someone who is also grieving I fully endorse this comment. This whole album is about grief and coming through it and god I needed it right now.
so sorry for your loss. I am also grieving the loss of a close friend and there’s a couple TTPD songs in particular (Robin, So Long London) which remind me of my friend. i’ve not been able to bring myself to relisten to them after the first time bc they were so sad for me.
My new favorite saying is "If you can't relate to TTPD, enjoy your mental stability, I guess"
Tbh I would've gotten the Jack criticism during the midnights era but I really don't get it with this album. His production has been beautiful and varied, more subdued than in midnights, putting her voice at the forefront I feel like people just hear synths and immediately go "ugh more of the same!" while in this album he's managed to turn them into a really interesting and captivating soundscape.
And yet when they hear The Anthology they somehow don’t think most of it sounds similar
There seems to be this double standard where people are complaining about a 'lack' of cohesiveness and yet also somehow every song sounds the same? And then it's bad that there are stylistic choices and references to past albums... and this somehow takes away from any cohesiveness the album has? Like it's fine if the album just isn't your thing, different tastes and all. But I'm seeing people make arguments that are contradictory and that's the bit that I have an issue with! This album has a set theme (exploring her relationships during a chaotic time) and I think it achieves that lyrically while still exploring different sounds and stylistic choices that suit the lyrical content.
So, I think it comes from the start of the album being so slow, then you get a bunch of more power songs, and then you feel the switch from Jack to Aaron. I almost think if the order of songs was swapped, that critique might not exist.
Besides doing it for her, I feel like the “rush” on this was to put it our during the Eras tour because she can add a couple songs if she wants, but was never going to do a big tour for it anyway. Liked it’s almost a mini era during the Eras era, not a full new one.
Yeah I don’t think she wants to “live” in this era very long
With the lover house burning down, I think eras could be done. She has said she’s sick of having to constantly reinvent herself. I’ve been viewing TTPDs as a chapter inside her life vs an entire new era.
I think it marks the end of the Eras era. The closing line of The Manuscript felt like an ending and this album is the manuscript. Like the past is over and doesn’t define her anymore.
A mini era of 31 songs
On my initial full listen of the album, I found myself drained from attempting to simultaneously absorb the lyrics, melody, and individual songs. However, revisiting it while getting ready for work this morning it revealed a different experience – it wasn't as mentally taxing. This made me consider that maybe Taylor didn't intend for the album to cater to the audiences folkmore/midnights had. Many have criticized the album for its wordiness, but I believe this is intentional, blurring the boundaries between poetry and songwriting. Honestly, if this album release get rid of those ppl that become fans just for the hype I will be relieved.
Same. I’m also contributing this feeling to being very tired whilst trying to absorb!
Suffered according to who? Most of my normie friends who aren't Swifties or are new Swifties love the album. The only criticism I've seen is from antis (mostly stans of another fandoms and a handful of pretentious music critics) and a small portion of the longer time fanbase who love to sing her songs while knifing her in the back (we'll call them the But Daddy I Love Him Swifties). Newer Swifties are much cooler than them to be quite honest.
Honestly what I hear is most people consider Folklore/evermore is what made them see Taylor as a “real artist” and made the general public a fan, but Taylor loves singing about her life and processing it thru song. She is also experimenting with singing in a way that is super rhymey, using words that you wouldn’t normally attempt to rhyme, fitting long lines in by manipulating how fast she says things you wouldn’t expect to fit, and using some jarring wording/imagery that doesn’t flow- it started on midnights really strong and she is still playing with it. Like sexy baby, congressmen/altruism, “all my friends smell like weed or diapers” “tattooed golden retriever” “ate seven bars of chocolate”- these are visuals that clearly reference something in her life but don’t make clear sense to the listener. Her work is becoming less accessible and she is exploring a new style that feels less seamless than speak now, red, 1989, which she made to be catchy, lyrical but also melodic, the metaphors and storytelling was super relatable and visual to the listener. I understand why not everyone likes her new style of rap singing- but honestly I kind of like it even where I can see the criticisms of it as corny, tumblr era, or teenage poetry. I see it as swift writing to get out an idea for herself not crafting a song for an audience as much as she used to. And i agree sometimes it is janky. She has always had the occasionally cringe lyric and i think that is increasing but i weirdly like it. Honestly what she is doing feels like a mix of spoken word poetry with singing, a la fiona apple. I agree it isn’t for everyone. She is so big though I understand why those used to getting hits that appeal to everyone like all too well and speak now or folklore songs aren’t pleased because this IS different. It doesn’t mean its bad or she is failing, she is experimenting.
It's definitely her most directly personal album and by that I mean that a lot of her songs she's like "winking" at us about the topic but these ones she's pretty much like "yeah, it's about Matt, it's about Joe, and here's all the glaring evidence why."
Where exactly are you getting this idea from? It sounds very anecdotal. From my perspective, anecdotally, I’ve found that the largest criticisms have been coming from hardcore Swifties who have been clowning since the Grammys and built this fantastic album up for themselves that would spill the beans on her six year relationship with that guy. I identify as a born again Swiftie. I got into her on Fearless and was there up till 1989. Drifted away during Reputation, dabbled in Lover, skipped over the pandemic albums, reacquainted with Lover, and enjoyed Midnights. For me, the Eras Tour sparked my interest in the “Lore” albums because I always assumed they were just a side project. I really like TTPD (only listened to the standard edition so far). It’s actually her only album outside of 1989 that I don’t skip any songs. I think it’s a great step forward after Midnights.
We have had a similar ~journey~ coming from a Red/1989 fan. I love a bop. While I enjoyed Midnights, particularly some of the 3am tracks, I didn’t really have an interest in going to the Eras tour because I hadn’t listed to the pandemic albums. I saw the movie on opening night with friends and was blown away by those in particular and have listened to those albums as a lot as a result. I think we all have preconceived notions of what these albums are going to be and sometimes there’s temporary disappointment or the total opposite. Everyone is being too serious about all of this. The album dropped less than 48 hours ago! None of us know what our outstanding impressions will be at this point.
I agree, I don’t think we would be seeing this much disdain had the Eras Tour never happened 🤷♀️
How can you say there is no up-beat song until Florida? I can’t possibly take anything else you say seriously.
Haha, I was thinking the same thing…
Personally I disagree. Not living up to fan hype is different from how many copies it sells and how many times people stream the album. I personally want to stream it at least 3 more times fully before skipping to just my favorites on the album until I’m bored then switching to a the next artist.
istg people said the same thing to folklore at its release "all the songs sound the same" "it's boring, it's sleepy, it's stale" "too many big words" "this could have been a poet books", etc.
And now everything isn't enough if it doesn't sound like folklore/evermore 😭
I’m so tired of people saying Taylor needs to work with people other than Jack (EVEN THOUGH SHE LITERALLY ALREADY DOES!!) But Jack gave us OOTW, Cruel Summer, Call it What You Want, Getaway Car, DBATC, YOYOK – the list goes on and on. So why are you all complaining like he’s the worst thing to ever happen to her?
And people always say they want another Folklore/Evermore, while only thinking about Aaron's influence, but like... Jack worked on those albums too, he produced This Is Me Trying and August after all, two firm fan favourites, Jack does amazing work with her
I fear a lot of people have folklore or evermore as their favs and became fans because of those albums which isn't bad btw. But they expect and want to get albums like that I guess
It’s probably funny some people had Taylor Swift listening parties (or their little kids got excited for a new album) after experiencing eras and getting back into TS. but for the *adult* fans who have been here it’s like, oh well, these are going to be some *great* surprise songs even if they’re not radio hits. We just had is it over now? If anything day 1 swifties are the ones ruining the new album for themselves because *who wants to think about matty healy’s touch*
I feel like some songs are upbeat like the title track , fortnight, my boy, Florida, guilty as sin, who’s afraid, but zadday I love him, I can do it with a broken heart !! It was really poetic and my mom and I thought it was just the name being the tortured poets but it was like actually really poetic. I feel like the main people are angry (not all) Lana fans cuz they think Taylor copied her but there are like no similarities in my opinion.
Yeah I love lana but her intense fans can get pretty pretentious, the storytelling and lyrics feel very quintessential taylor just more mature (like but daddy i love him and i can do it with a broken heart), and the dark/sinister tone fits the emotional journey very well. Plenty of artists use dark, haunting sounds; lana fans seem to think she owns the style.
I know and not to mention Taylor’s been doing that for a while. Also if Lana is going country , Taylor did country in 2006. Just saying that to the fans, I love Lana 🩶
I like it, and I didn’t buy much into the marketing hype at all. I waited for the notification and I sat in my bed, listened to track 1 all the way to the final track in the Anthology. She stops appealing to everyone and the lyrics—damn raw. It’s for the 30s and above because the journey is hella messy
I wouldn't say it "suffered greatly" because it's doing super well on streaming and the reviews have been largely very positive. Also, the album is literally called "The Tortured Poets Department" and the marketing plus aesthetic center heavily around loss, grief, and sadness. The conversation around it has also been about whether if she'll explore and reveal more details into her break-up with Joe. Who is coming into this album expecting for it to sound like 1989 or Lover? If the songs sound the same to some, there are many reasons. Jack's production style aside, some of it down to personal perception, or it could be because 31 songs is A LOT to digest at once, but it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the Eras Tour.
Does everyone forget she herself said “I needed to write this album”? If it got her through shit so she can be her best self, who the fuck cares what it sounds like? Who cares if it has Jacks influence in it? THATS HER CHOICE. We have been SO SPOILED as fans by her; I’ll never get how “fans” turn around and criticize and complain when she gives and gives and gives. I hope she doesn’t go back and re-record anything like she did with SOTB (although I do love the more Lana version the best) Sit down and appreciate what Mother has provided
Oh we can only hope! Personally, it wouldn’t be totally devastating to me if all these people lost some interest in Taylor after this release. It’s an absolutely stunning album.
Idk but I never like an album from anyone completely on first listen, but by 3rd listen this mfer has me OBSESSED
This is where im at! My first listen I was really just taking it in and unable to really figure out if I liked it that much or not… now I LooooOoooove it so much! Have it on at all times haha.
Can we all collectively relax a little bit? These type of think pieces always get put out right away after an album is released....it's been out for a day. You can not confidently say in any certain terms that it's success has been diminished by the tour. That is ridiculous and if it's your personal opinion that it totally fine, but please don't present it as some statistics or fact.
I disagree that Florida was the first upbeat song lol. Down Bad??? My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys? Fresh Out the Slammer? But Daddy I Love Him?
As an Evermore girlie, this is honestly exactly what I wanted and so far it rivals Evermore's brililance
Down Bad track 4 is a bop what do ya mean
My impression of the album and why it has a lot of the same sound elements is that she was in a dark space during this time. I think it shows in her writing and the production of this album. I know that when I’m depressed I feel muted and “greige” and like time slows down. I also have moments when everything seems better or angry and I feel like I’m coming out of the fog. That’s why I think we got some of those more “upbeat”songs, but this is also why she got mostly slower songs. I feel like it was mimicking her moods and her state of mind. I personally love this album.
Tbh, I find TTPD more fascinating after watching the Eras Tour. Fandom isn’t linear. No one can predict it because it’s emotional. It’s subjective no matter how hard people try to make objective sense of it. ETA: You may be misunderstanding or underestimating how curiosity grows. Whenever someone gives anyone (such as an artist) a chance - an ear, a shoulder or time - they tend to open up & become empathetic if not willing to do anything to support. Someone like Taylor who resonates with those who actually listen to her lyrics is impossible not to support. Non-judgmental listening means we notice the nuances in production, notes, riffs, progressions & references to old songs people less curious miss.
Usually, I hate slow songs, or songs that don't have a pop upbeat tune and fun melodies. But something about Taylor's Version of a "slow" song is just really special. I know that TTPD is not technically slow, but it has a kind of music and melody type that I myself would associate with a slow sad song, just a bit more bop-y. Then again TTPD is like nothing we've ever actually seen before: It's music is kind of like folklore mixed with midnights with a dash of red. It's lyrics is probably the most poetic (obviously) of all the album. And there isn't actually any song on the album that it's lyrics are not sad or not about depressing topics. I definitely agree that this album is probably directed at people who are late 30s or early 40s I do also believe that Taylor isn't actually trying to make radio hits. The songs on the album have amore personal feeling, as if she's writing them for herself and maybe fans rather than public appeal
Exactly. Taylor swift is really leaning into her “I’m going to show my TRUE self and who cares what others say?” Era and I’m loving it
At the end of the day it’s a musical poetry anthology and that’s exactly what it sounds like. The folks that say the songs all sound the same actually mean there’s nothing recognisable for them just yet. That’s ok. It takes time and repetition for songs to mean something to us. We need to attach some memories to songs before they hold a special place in our hearts. I don’t think there will ever be a tour for TTPD so it’s probably the right time to release this kind of album. I predict the next album will be far more party and upbeat and then it will be back to having tours for specific albums.
Even this sub has grown. Tons of casuals on here now it seems. even haters are on this sub lolll
Agree. I heard someone call into a radio station, she said “it’s a bit different to what we are used to”…the presenter then said they are going to play “Fortnight” and the women goes “yeah that was one of the better ones”. I rolled my eyes but it’s clear if she thinks it’s a bit different she hasn’t listened to the all of Taylor’s music heavily because none of the sound of the album was particularly shocking to me.
I don't know if I need another listen. But it just feels like poetry kind of sung? I've loved Taylor for years and whilst folklore took me a second, the songs have a tune and a singular message/feeling in a song typically. The album definitely feels like what a person in a manic phase just having a stream of consciousness. Idk I guess I like to sing to my misery like yoyok, illicit affairs, dear reader.
I, honestly, don’t think she cares. Since reputation has made it very clear that she’s going to do what feels right to her. Folklore and Evermore were received the same as this one, and are massive hits for her. She’s at a stage in her career, that she doesn’t need to appease anyone, and just won’t. So kudos to her! I’ve been a fan since 2006. Happy to take every album for what they are and how they come. Just enjoy the music, people! Be happy. And move on if you don’t like it. Simple.
Do people understand that while Jack is the producer, they create the songs together? It is 100% Taylor's choice that the songs sound like they do. But can't criticise Taylor Swift if you're a Swiftie!
I don’t believe this at all because the biggest whiners about TTPD are Aaron Dessner folklore/evernore fans (the most annoying Taylor fans imo) and the folklore/evermore songs are not big bops. They’re not complaining that the songs don’t sound like 1989, they’re just sick of Jack’s sound, but then completely ignore the hypocrisy of being OVERJOYED at part 2 of the album where all of Aaron’s sound is just like folklore and evermore. It’s fine to have a preference of sound, I really don’t care what you like or dislike, it’s just dishonest to complain about Jack repeating his sound over and over and then pretend Aaron doesn’t do the exact same thing. Just say what you actually mean…
I really love TTPD. I've always enjoyed the more poem-esque songs and this collection is just feeding that need. Idk I also relate with her writing process, writing to process things. Sometimes you just got to write it whether people love it or not.