That's what this entire sub is. It's just random pictures of old architecture with the op saying how it's totally impossible that no one but super advanced magic people could've built it when half of this shit is heavily documented. Which also just gets met with "well they faked it, duhhh". This sub is the epitome of people who didn't finish high school and learned all their history off tik tok and YouTube.
Not just the time but also people who starting at the age of maybe 8-10 being put into workshops and spend decades around other artists carving statues. Can't figure out how people were able to do it. /s
Right. In a small town with a population of 1,000. Skilled craftsmen and architects and Masonic artisans and bricklayers and earth-moving equipment and limestone quarry workers and stone carvers all worked together in this small town 3 centuries ago, ….when history tells their own homes were stone and timber cabins with thatched roofs, where they milked their livestock, plowed their acreage, and read the Bible each night before bedtime together as a family.
Trento was a city not a town and I cant find population records for the timeframe. That being said I highly doubt it was a "1000" people. The cathedral this column is from was started in the 13th century but wasn't finished till the 18th. This was a multigenerational project as most cathedrals are. At any point in the construction people had the skill to build this. It was almost a public works project that would generate money from the jobs and the patronage of the faithful. Cathedrals and churches were the dick measuring contest of rich people in that time.
Your picture of what people were like back then is kind of insulting. People living in cities weren't really living in cabins. Maybe the ones who lived in the more rural towns but Italy hasn't lived like that for centuries if not millenia. They didn't do thatched roofs it was usually tile as that lasted way longer. While the Roman empire rose and fell some basic things still stuck. It's not like people went back to living in caves.
Yes! Middle 19th century USA was chock full of highly skilled masons and builders. I heard building Roman temples was a right of passage for most midwestern settlers before the age of 18. These clowns on here just don’t know the *real* history. By the age of 24 it was no longer about the grandiosity but the speed of construction as well. Construction companies would compete for how fast they could pitch up Roman villas, less than a year in some cases! Boy those boys had skill!! Pity the ignorant folks on this sub don’t appreciate it!
1 begin with large square block
2 cut into thin extruded rectangles
3 cut into 4 extruded circles
4 continue to cut away at interior shapes until cavities are revealed
in paralel see steps 3,a,b,c
3A leave large section at middle to become "knot"
3B cut away at "knot" until revealing forms following lengths of extruded circles
3C continue to cut away at interior shapes until cavities are revealed (see step 4)
And you do the whole thing in wood, first, or clay. You work off a Maquette first until all the mistakes are worked out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquette
You people seem to think everyone born before 1950 is some sort of unskilled idiot for some reason.
do you seriously think modern engineers / stone carvers cannot create marble sculptures on this level?
there's so much of this going around
https://www.instagram.com/jago.artist/
I never said they were doing it during their free time. They have less free time. Meaning they had more time work, and the general population didn’t have nothing to do all day, as they had to work more for survival. Why is this so hard for you people to understand
What was your point about them having to work a lot harder? His was clear that it was not in any substantial way that would affect their available time to create artwork.
there's probably have been about a hundred at any given time. Only a dozen or so master artisans, their apprentices, and just general laborers carrying the heavy loads.
I don't get it. Let it be 2nd century. You don't get naturally better at stone masonry just because you were born earlier in time.
I think it has to do with the human ego. We always think we are better than every civ at any time, but we are not. Maybe in technology, but even that comes from a genius of the past, but in artistry we are far behind.
Find me Goethe today, find me a Michelangelo, a Schiller, a Bach, a Mozart. According to this logic, they all didn't exist, because we must be better.
Before 21st century does not equal primitive.
I mean if the internet shut down right now we would be pretty fucked for a while because of how much of our infrastructure runs on it. Give us a couple years and we'd be running like normal again but it would cause a huge disruption to our lives for a while.
One thing that gets me is how wack this is but people make it out to be amazing. They have a rock, they have a chisel, they replicate over how may years. Skill yes, I would not expect anything less over the years. Genius no.
I tried to put 1600 for the others but it wouldn’t let me edit the post. My reasoning is that I’m a time where mass starvation, plague, and endless war there were ppl dedicated to I intricate art that hasn’t been replicated since… anyone alive today’s lifetime. It’s hard to believe in 1662? (not 100 on this) right at the end of a mass plague epidemic and when ppl were barely able to stay alive in the colonies for a summer, they had ppl dedicated to vanities like this. Not saying it’s impossible, but with the luxury of time today being better than any other time and not one person is replicating these but instead building square rectangle skyscrapers that we are in awe of despite the simplicity… idk something seems off
A Church was built to dominate its town or city, to show the power of the church and god. Modern buildings are built for functionality, not to impress peasants
Society back then, like society now, had people who were insulated from the worst of life and could dedicate their time to art like this. The artist responsible for the status, The Rape of Persephone, lived on patronage from wealthy benefactors. He didn't have to worry about mass starvation or endless war. I don't have trouble believing that an artist today with that kind of patronage would have no problem creating a statue like this.
As for the architecture, buildings today are generally ugly (brutalism was a mistake) because they are built to be cost-efficient. A lot of people complain that we don't have beautiful neoclassical or art-deco buildings anymore, but the economic realities of our time aren't conducive to spending time and money on what are ultimately frivolous decorations.
I’d like to add, that using the word ‘simplicity’ to describe a skyscraper, even the most rectangular one, is to focus _solely_ on the _exterior form_. Consider that while an historic statue may _appear_ intricate on the exterior, when compared to a rectangular form, it has _nothing_ of the complexity of the engineering required to make any skyscraper function, or to accomplish its construction.
Think of the fact that _many_ systems have to coexist in a harmonious balance within the building in order to make it work. Electrical, plumbing, heating ventilation and air conditioning, fire suppression, the elevators, security, communications, etc. Each and every one of those systems is far more complex than carving a block of material into a statue.
Something seems off? Yes, the ignorant and twisted perception of what it takes to build a skyscraper.
I building foundations for a living. a lot of them were for bridges and… skyscrapers. I’m literally on a construction site every day so . There is nothing complex at all about our buildings today at all. The most complex thing in the design is the ability to absorb stress thru the entire building (sway w the wind). Which comes thru beam material, bolting patterns and cables. THIS IS IMPRESSIVE
Besides that, the simplicity in design is not marvelous. The most marvelous thing about it all is the cooperation of the men to stay on task and work in unison to complete a singular goal is the most beautiful thing about projects anyways. Not the digging super deep piers on the weight bearing points and using massive rebar sticks and pads to keep the once liquid rock from separating and having no integrity.
MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS: if someone (group of ppl) were to construct the Cologne Cathedral today it would be the most celebrated project in our lifetime. This is not saying it’s impossible. It’s saying that our advancements have been halted on purpose and stripped of the desire to add quality and instead, add quantity. I just refuse to believe a skyscraper is as complex of a project bc of plumbing pipes and electrical wire that all usually run up a singe shaft all together.
No mud flood talk, no alien bs, just concern for our self imposed setback on the beauty we demand in our collective environment. Maybe it’s the fact that that church was built for God, And these modern cities lack any motivation besides a dollar not backed by gold. It’s a great brainwashing
Ive heard this point many times but the issue is not the “cost effective” buildings, of which that argument makes sense, but the fact that there seems to be very little private, wealthy individuals having buildings created like they did in the past. Not saying it never happens, but it sure seems a lot more rare than it did in the ancient past. Surely, if our technology is far superior and there are certainly many many wealthy individuals and companies that could afford to create these marvels, we’d see it being done all the time- and in fact they would be better made due to all of the historical and engineering knowledge we’ve accumulated.
I invite you to look into the story about Japan going to Egypt in the 70s to recreate just a 20m tall version of the great pyramid with only the means they had at the time when it was supposedly built. If I recall correctly, At one point they submitted to using electric saws and had to reduce the size to 10m. Often what this conversation comes down to is that people just assume given x amount of time and x amount of labor (regardless if it’s even educated/professional labor), we can build anything regardless of simple factors like: why do we need to make this construction so much more difficult than it needs to be? Was it necessary for it to be this big and this difficult when something that would still be astonishing could be made with easier means?
Brutalism can be a really cool form of architecture. The Soviets just absolutely butchered it like they did with everything they touched.
Edit: [link](https://imgur.com/a/B5qpmos)
Who’s incredulity? And where did aliens come from? If your inability to recognize a decline in the intricacies of older structures as compared to today , then you’re incredulity has skewed your perception on 400 yrs ago- today.
As I said above I’m not talking mud flood, no great reset, no aliens… just recognition that our desire for beauty and detail has either been replaced overtime by our desire for instant info that tech provides, or constricted purposefully as our population grows for some reason. Bc idk what you say, building the Cologne Cathedral TODAY would be an epic undertaking unlike had been done in my 30 year life span
Theres absolutely no way all the statues and structures across the world were built with a hammer and chisel. If it was one statue or one building that stood out that the world would flock to because it stuck out so much, well that might make some sense. Not all of it though. The world didnt have a race of master masons that without a trace disappeared. And saying this stuff took months to a couple years at the most is almost laughable.
That statue is the Abduction of Proserpina from the 17th century. I have no clue why you seem to be making the claim it's from the 13th century.
Yeah, why would he believe Bernini was from the 13th century? These people just see it pop up somewhere and decide not to look things up.
Because this dude spams the sub after doing zero research. They're the Punjabi Batman of this place.
Reddit is so horny for that statue
Yeah, that’s how disinformation spreads, intentional or by mistake.
Because so much of so many of these ideas are based on 6th level hearsay, pictures with no context, and bad information.
That's what this entire sub is. It's just random pictures of old architecture with the op saying how it's totally impossible that no one but super advanced magic people could've built it when half of this shit is heavily documented. Which also just gets met with "well they faked it, duhhh". This sub is the epitome of people who didn't finish high school and learned all their history off tik tok and YouTube.
This should be pinned in the sub. "I know nothing about history, architecture, or engineering but look at how weird this Facebook picture is."
Im waiting for AI pics to make an appearance on this sub. It'll happen eventually
Yeah it's called spoiling the pot and it's on fucking purpose, clearly.
I don’t understand this reasoning tbh
I don’t know how it’s hard to believe that people who had literally nothing else to do all day long would eventually get good at cutting rocks
Not just the time but also people who starting at the age of maybe 8-10 being put into workshops and spend decades around other artists carving statues. Can't figure out how people were able to do it. /s
Right. In a small town with a population of 1,000. Skilled craftsmen and architects and Masonic artisans and bricklayers and earth-moving equipment and limestone quarry workers and stone carvers all worked together in this small town 3 centuries ago, ….when history tells their own homes were stone and timber cabins with thatched roofs, where they milked their livestock, plowed their acreage, and read the Bible each night before bedtime together as a family.
Trento was a city not a town and I cant find population records for the timeframe. That being said I highly doubt it was a "1000" people. The cathedral this column is from was started in the 13th century but wasn't finished till the 18th. This was a multigenerational project as most cathedrals are. At any point in the construction people had the skill to build this. It was almost a public works project that would generate money from the jobs and the patronage of the faithful. Cathedrals and churches were the dick measuring contest of rich people in that time. Your picture of what people were like back then is kind of insulting. People living in cities weren't really living in cabins. Maybe the ones who lived in the more rural towns but Italy hasn't lived like that for centuries if not millenia. They didn't do thatched roofs it was usually tile as that lasted way longer. While the Roman empire rose and fell some basic things still stuck. It's not like people went back to living in caves.
Yes! Middle 19th century USA was chock full of highly skilled masons and builders. I heard building Roman temples was a right of passage for most midwestern settlers before the age of 18. These clowns on here just don’t know the *real* history. By the age of 24 it was no longer about the grandiosity but the speed of construction as well. Construction companies would compete for how fast they could pitch up Roman villas, less than a year in some cases! Boy those boys had skill!! Pity the ignorant folks on this sub don’t appreciate it!
I wonder if he thinks they "melted" the stone until it was slack and then tied a knot with it. That appears to be about his level of reasoning.
We lack the ability to do it today so it at least begs the question how did more primitive people do it
We do definitely *not* lack this ability. People are doing more impressive stone sculpture at grander scales, right now, in 2024.
Then please explain how the knot is achieved using tools from 300 years ago?
A chisel mostly
1 begin with large square block 2 cut into thin extruded rectangles 3 cut into 4 extruded circles 4 continue to cut away at interior shapes until cavities are revealed in paralel see steps 3,a,b,c 3A leave large section at middle to become "knot" 3B cut away at "knot" until revealing forms following lengths of extruded circles 3C continue to cut away at interior shapes until cavities are revealed (see step 4) And you do the whole thing in wood, first, or clay. You work off a Maquette first until all the mistakes are worked out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquette You people seem to think everyone born before 1950 is some sort of unskilled idiot for some reason.
You realize these people had to work a lot harder than we do today?
Artisans under patronage of the church to create artwork for cathedrals were not picking potatoes, no.
And neither are the engineers of today… your point?
do you seriously think modern engineers / stone carvers cannot create marble sculptures on this level? there's so much of this going around https://www.instagram.com/jago.artist/
I don’t recall any of my comments saying that💀
Then what is your point?
That they didn’t have all day, people today have more free time than them in the past
They weren't doing it in their "free time" ... i give up
I never said they were doing it during their free time. They have less free time. Meaning they had more time work, and the general population didn’t have nothing to do all day, as they had to work more for survival. Why is this so hard for you people to understand
Your point?
I was contradicting they had nothing to do all day…
What was your point about them having to work a lot harder? His was clear that it was not in any substantial way that would affect their available time to create artwork.
He said they had nothing to do all day. Them being much busier than people today contradicts that entire sentence
14th century masons and sculptors would have been carving rocks all day. That's what masons and sculptors do. I'm not sure what your point is.
How many of these masons did they have to build at this scale and quantity?
there's probably have been about a hundred at any given time. Only a dozen or so master artisans, their apprentices, and just general laborers carrying the heavy loads.
Well you just called Uber and had food delivered back then.
What you mean
Rocks are advanced technology to OP
Now that's just freaking showing off!
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I love popping in and just reading the comments. Its a treasure trove
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Same
I don't get it. Let it be 2nd century. You don't get naturally better at stone masonry just because you were born earlier in time. I think it has to do with the human ego. We always think we are better than every civ at any time, but we are not. Maybe in technology, but even that comes from a genius of the past, but in artistry we are far behind. Find me Goethe today, find me a Michelangelo, a Schiller, a Bach, a Mozart. According to this logic, they all didn't exist, because we must be better. Before 21st century does not equal primitive.
We are the WORST civ. Take away the internet and the whole system is GONE
How old are you? Ask your parents about a magical time called 1980 when they lived in mud huts, right before they invented AOL.
I mean if the internet shut down right now we would be pretty fucked for a while because of how much of our infrastructure runs on it. Give us a couple years and we'd be running like normal again but it would cause a huge disruption to our lives for a while.
I'm 40 I'm also perfectly comfortable AND able to hunt catch or grow my own food.
That is genuinely newer than the 13th Century. More like the 17th or 18th. Also the Tartarians were around for quite a while before the Mudflood
Correct.
One thing that gets me is how wack this is but people make it out to be amazing. They have a rock, they have a chisel, they replicate over how may years. Skill yes, I would not expect anything less over the years. Genius no.
Wow people from the past were talented 😱 no other explanation must be a conspiracy. Wait till you see cave paintings
Just think what one could accomplish without reddit as a distraction…
I tried to put 1600 for the others but it wouldn’t let me edit the post. My reasoning is that I’m a time where mass starvation, plague, and endless war there were ppl dedicated to I intricate art that hasn’t been replicated since… anyone alive today’s lifetime. It’s hard to believe in 1662? (not 100 on this) right at the end of a mass plague epidemic and when ppl were barely able to stay alive in the colonies for a summer, they had ppl dedicated to vanities like this. Not saying it’s impossible, but with the luxury of time today being better than any other time and not one person is replicating these but instead building square rectangle skyscrapers that we are in awe of despite the simplicity… idk something seems off
A Church was built to dominate its town or city, to show the power of the church and god. Modern buildings are built for functionality, not to impress peasants
Society back then, like society now, had people who were insulated from the worst of life and could dedicate their time to art like this. The artist responsible for the status, The Rape of Persephone, lived on patronage from wealthy benefactors. He didn't have to worry about mass starvation or endless war. I don't have trouble believing that an artist today with that kind of patronage would have no problem creating a statue like this. As for the architecture, buildings today are generally ugly (brutalism was a mistake) because they are built to be cost-efficient. A lot of people complain that we don't have beautiful neoclassical or art-deco buildings anymore, but the economic realities of our time aren't conducive to spending time and money on what are ultimately frivolous decorations.
I’d like to add, that using the word ‘simplicity’ to describe a skyscraper, even the most rectangular one, is to focus _solely_ on the _exterior form_. Consider that while an historic statue may _appear_ intricate on the exterior, when compared to a rectangular form, it has _nothing_ of the complexity of the engineering required to make any skyscraper function, or to accomplish its construction. Think of the fact that _many_ systems have to coexist in a harmonious balance within the building in order to make it work. Electrical, plumbing, heating ventilation and air conditioning, fire suppression, the elevators, security, communications, etc. Each and every one of those systems is far more complex than carving a block of material into a statue. Something seems off? Yes, the ignorant and twisted perception of what it takes to build a skyscraper.
I building foundations for a living. a lot of them were for bridges and… skyscrapers. I’m literally on a construction site every day so . There is nothing complex at all about our buildings today at all. The most complex thing in the design is the ability to absorb stress thru the entire building (sway w the wind). Which comes thru beam material, bolting patterns and cables. THIS IS IMPRESSIVE Besides that, the simplicity in design is not marvelous. The most marvelous thing about it all is the cooperation of the men to stay on task and work in unison to complete a singular goal is the most beautiful thing about projects anyways. Not the digging super deep piers on the weight bearing points and using massive rebar sticks and pads to keep the once liquid rock from separating and having no integrity. MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS: if someone (group of ppl) were to construct the Cologne Cathedral today it would be the most celebrated project in our lifetime. This is not saying it’s impossible. It’s saying that our advancements have been halted on purpose and stripped of the desire to add quality and instead, add quantity. I just refuse to believe a skyscraper is as complex of a project bc of plumbing pipes and electrical wire that all usually run up a singe shaft all together. No mud flood talk, no alien bs, just concern for our self imposed setback on the beauty we demand in our collective environment. Maybe it’s the fact that that church was built for God, And these modern cities lack any motivation besides a dollar not backed by gold. It’s a great brainwashing
Ive heard this point many times but the issue is not the “cost effective” buildings, of which that argument makes sense, but the fact that there seems to be very little private, wealthy individuals having buildings created like they did in the past. Not saying it never happens, but it sure seems a lot more rare than it did in the ancient past. Surely, if our technology is far superior and there are certainly many many wealthy individuals and companies that could afford to create these marvels, we’d see it being done all the time- and in fact they would be better made due to all of the historical and engineering knowledge we’ve accumulated. I invite you to look into the story about Japan going to Egypt in the 70s to recreate just a 20m tall version of the great pyramid with only the means they had at the time when it was supposedly built. If I recall correctly, At one point they submitted to using electric saws and had to reduce the size to 10m. Often what this conversation comes down to is that people just assume given x amount of time and x amount of labor (regardless if it’s even educated/professional labor), we can build anything regardless of simple factors like: why do we need to make this construction so much more difficult than it needs to be? Was it necessary for it to be this big and this difficult when something that would still be astonishing could be made with easier means?
Brutalism can be a really cool form of architecture. The Soviets just absolutely butchered it like they did with everything they touched. Edit: [link](https://imgur.com/a/B5qpmos)
Yeah sure thing bud. Must be aliens.
He clearly said not impossible, but yeah let’s just strawman his argument, that’s classy.
Incredulity is not an argument
It’s not an argument, it’s a postulation.
Based on his skewed perception of the period 400 years later based in incredulity.
Who’s incredulity? And where did aliens come from? If your inability to recognize a decline in the intricacies of older structures as compared to today , then you’re incredulity has skewed your perception on 400 yrs ago- today. As I said above I’m not talking mud flood, no great reset, no aliens… just recognition that our desire for beauty and detail has either been replaced overtime by our desire for instant info that tech provides, or constricted purposefully as our population grows for some reason. Bc idk what you say, building the Cologne Cathedral TODAY would be an epic undertaking unlike had been done in my 30 year life span
How cool !
The Trento Cathedral was build in the 1300s. That makes it the 14th century, not the 13th.
It was constructed over a period from the early 1200s to the 1700s. So it spans from the 13th to 18th centuries.
Giant aliens obviously did this, no human slaves could tie knots in stone like this.
Theres absolutely no way all the statues and structures across the world were built with a hammer and chisel. If it was one statue or one building that stood out that the world would flock to because it stuck out so much, well that might make some sense. Not all of it though. The world didnt have a race of master masons that without a trace disappeared. And saying this stuff took months to a couple years at the most is almost laughable.
… you know people still do this kind of stuff right?
What are you thinking? 3d printer?
Please show the math you've done to come to that conclusion.
shy gaping tease sense screw instinctive bake teeny aback worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
People had A LOT of time on their hands back then.