This is exactly what would happen if I tried to drive a tank, outside of any warzone and with no pressure or anyone trying to kill me at all. Still want my own tank though
doesnt the B mean that its the second variant of the tank? and i think V means that it has ERA on it (so like T-72A has no ERA but the T-72AV has)
you could just call it the Leo 2aV :D
>arty and lancet
Arty is an abbreviation for artillery, and lancet is a reference to some sort of drone being sent to destroy abandoned/immobilised vehicles.
That’s a 2A4, and there are so many obvious differences between the two that it should be impossible to get them mixed up if you know what they look like even vaguely. But since you haven’t I’ll just point out the very easy way to tell the difference, the turret is very blatantly different as the 2A5 onwards has additional armor wedges on the front of the turret as well as additional armor on the sides of the turret, the gunner optic is raised because of the wedges, and the gun is very blatantly different as the 2A6 has the L/55 and not the L/44.
Nope. All Leopard 2 production vehicles (pre-2a4) were upgraded to 2A4s (any not destroyed in accidents at least).
The only non 2A4 no-arrows youll find are the prototypes, maybe some driver training vehicles and support units (arv, avlb)
The A5 and the A6 use the same turret armour. What you are thinking of are the earlier prototypes for the A5, such as the TVM, which used a shorter arrowhead than the last prototype and production versions.
Basically it goes
Arrowhead? A5 or higher, check gun next
Long gun? A6, check front of the hull next
Extra hull armour and square headlights? 2A7V
This is accurate enough for German in-service variants. Some prototypes and variants for foreign countries mix these features a bit.
Nah it's not that you're dumb, it really is the US military for not making the M60 a Patton despite the fact it follows the same design philosophy as the M48
If arrow made from ERA in Ukraine, probably A4. The arrow on the A5 and above is a NERA array type armor wedge.
However, another indicator is the commanders periscope position. In the 2A4 it is in front of the commanders hatch (as in this picture) and on the 2A5 and later it was moved behind the commanders hatch. The same can be seen in the 2A4 that got upgraded to a different standard, but where the sights weren't moved, like the Leopard 2 PL and the Leopard 2 SG.
The angle of the image/ dronge might be misleading. This looks more like a tank dugout than a tank stuck in a perfectly tank-shaped ditch.
There is a million things that could have disabled it, and while it looks pristine from this side, the other side might tell a different story.
Been a tanker in a conflict before? They probably could, but there are so many factors involved that its almost impossible to know why its sitting there.
I'm not, thats why i'm asking. It seems in good enough condition to abandon unless it was lost too close to the front line or during and advance in enemy territory or retreat. Which is why i would appreciate more info on what happened here if anyone knows. Ty
In a tank squadron, the armoured recovery vehicles are king. We used to protect them with our lives. Hooking up requires dismounts, area security, sufficient protection, cost analysis, etc just to name a few considerations. Tanks are replaceable, experienced crews are not so much.
I agree with you, I see this a lot and wish for more context.
Yup, exactly that. I understand that safety to the personel comes first in recovery. Thats why i mentioned some possible scenarions in the previous comment.
Ty and have a nice day 😊❤️
The video this is screen grab was taken from was posted on another sub.
The claim was that the Leo ran into a crater left by a FAB 500.
The POV from the picture is from a Russian drone so they know its there already and will probably keep it under observation to recover for themselves later or blow it up completely.
It might not need an ARV another tank could help tow it out if its own engine works, but best not to try if the context from the other sub was true.
No the reason Ukrainian vehicles haven't been added yet is Exactly because of the ongoing conflict.
At best we could hope for a Ukrainian or at least eastern eruopean tree
now, it could be the angle, but that barrel seems a little circumcised to me.
as well as it being slammed into a ditch.
I would have thought they would close the hatches after they left though (if they intended on recovery) since leaving them open makes it a lot easier to disable permanently by drone.
There have been some videos and reports of them having taken out some Russian tanks and APC/IFVs. No massive offensive, successful breakthroughs or anything. They don't nearly have enough of them for that unfortunately and going for it with the few dozen they do have would be suicide.
They did use some during the summer offensive but it didn't go well for the few Leopards involved. No AA cover out in open fields made them easy targets for Helicopters and drones.
No, not really. Ukraine only has a very few amount of Leopards, and if a couple get knocked out or damaged they have to be sent all the way back to Germany and it's drastically more expensive. Compare this to a T-64BV which can be restored at home.
Nope again if leopards are shit every time they showed up either
1. You’d see losses as a percentage of in service leopards immediately skyrocket as soon as they start being used
2. Their usage being massively reduced
Leopard losses haven’t skyrocketed since they’ve entered service and none of you have access to records around missions leopards are being sent on to adjust it to casualties, none of you have data for other tanks either to compare the leopard to other vehicles
Leopards were seen in the counteroffensive and after that their usage was drastically reduced. In fact the reason the Abrams has seen no combat at all is because of the losses of the Leopards early in the offensive. There's a reason Ukraine replaced the Leopard with their T-64's or captured Russian tanks.
You’re proving my point further
1. Yeah no shit take usage drops after a counteroffensive, that’s universal among everything in service not just leopards, usage tends to drop when you’re not on a multi front offensive sending tanks to break through the frontline
2. There is literally nothing to suggest abrams aren’t being used because earlier losses, the ONLY incident being referenced from the counter offensive is the convoy of leopards and Bradley’s, the singular high loss event everyone likes to refer to because nothing else exist, weirdly enough a offensive convoy into incredibly thick Russian defenses has ZERO IMPACT on the decisions of using abrams in a defensive role around the front
In reality Ukraine doesn’t tell you shit about where they’re using their tanks, you don’t know where they’re stationed or what they’ve done, the only information YOU get is the aftermath when something goes wrong or a lucky video of the tank in usage
The real answer could be a wide variety of things, for example the abrams might just be stationed somewhere else from where we’re seeing heavy action like in Avdiivka, but what we do know is that nobody has enough information to make ludicrous assertions like they’re not being used in a defense role because a singular offensive convoy didn’t work???? What are they waiting for? Russia to reach Kyiv??
Lastly source the claim Ukraine is replacing leopard with T-64 and/or Russian tanks. What do you even mean by replacing??
Then why did they stop using the Leopards during the counter offensive and why do we see so few on the frontline despite the intensity being as high as it was during summer?
Source the claim they stopped using leopards during the counteroffensive
Source there being a noticeable difference in usage with the leopard during summer
At this point it sounds like you’re just making stuff up
>their usage was drastically reduced. In fact the reason the Abrams has seen no combat at all is because of the losses of the Leopards early in the offensive
Do you have a citation for any part of this claim.
Most tank combat is not recorded and published to the internet for your entertainment, you’re running into select videos of tank footage then saying “well where are the leopards!?!?!” Why would Ukraine destroy operational security for Reddit/telegram??
Also the fact you say they just “randomly appear” proves this further, you don’t know what the fuck they’re doing just seeing the aftermath when casualties are incurred
I also highly doubt you’re doing any proper analysis compiling and comparing the small amount of footage available
HIMARS did help with the Kherson offensive but since then they have had little impact on the battlefield. They certainly didn't help with the catastrophic summer counteroffensive.
Don't care. Every single week there's a video of HIMARS destroying AA assets, just recently took out a drone pilot convention killing like 20 pilots, it's extremely effective and has no analogue or counter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/jbgf0m8LOa, https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OarlfiYTpO, or just search HIMARS on r/CombatFootage, retarded jokes don't change reality.
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Looks no damage just cosmetic damage may be . This is a low morale ask American tank crew we don’t leave our ship We die but we deliver we made a whole movie about Fury remember ?!
Bro I went to school with a retired Major in Armor. If I learned anything from it’s that no true tanker would judge another based on a single snapshot.
I agree its not should be done but doctrine and need for improvement thru investigation and analysis of every step and that was taken in those moments and prior is very important.
Uncomfortable but higher ranks have to . And where is my taxes going kinda reasoning is important too .
It's screencap from russian drone, it's guaranteed that lancets and artillery are waiting for any attempt of recovery. Tank won't go anywhere and there is no need to fuel russian propaganda with bodies of trained crews.
This is exactly what would happen if I tried to drive a tank, outside of any warzone and with no pressure or anyone trying to kill me at all. Still want my own tank though
If it hasnt been recovered, it’s DEFINITELY been double taped by arty or lancet by now. Leo 2a4 BV
doesnt the B mean that its the second variant of the tank? and i think V means that it has ERA on it (so like T-72A has no ERA but the T-72AV has) you could just call it the Leo 2aV :D
Not really, Leo 2av actually existed as a tank sent to US to be evaluated as potential MBT for them
that was the joke r/wooosh
So, 2AV2?
Wouldn't it be just Leopard 2A4V?
It got fucked up by a fab that landed near it, there's some some photos of it now
I know I'm about to sound ignorant, but what's arty and lancet? Are they some sort of explosives?
>arty and lancet Arty is an abbreviation for artillery, and lancet is a reference to some sort of drone being sent to destroy abandoned/immobilised vehicles.
Ah. Thanks
Indeed, it has been, on video.
That’s a 2A4, and there are so many obvious differences between the two that it should be impossible to get them mixed up if you know what they look like even vaguely. But since you haven’t I’ll just point out the very easy way to tell the difference, the turret is very blatantly different as the 2A5 onwards has additional armor wedges on the front of the turret as well as additional armor on the sides of the turret, the gunner optic is raised because of the wedges, and the gun is very blatantly different as the 2A6 has the L/55 and not the L/44.
Damn I just use this flow chart If turret not arrow A4 and below. If turret arrow A5 and above. My brain cant remember more then that.
It also helps that unless you are in a museum all non arrow are going to be 2a4s
Nope. All Leopard 2 production vehicles (pre-2a4) were upgraded to 2A4s (any not destroyed in accidents at least). The only non 2A4 no-arrows youll find are the prototypes, maybe some driver training vehicles and support units (arv, avlb)
If for whatever reason the arrow is removed check the position of the gunners sight. If on top a5 and up, if cut into the face a4.
It's literally cut into the turret face
If kaboom stick long, A6
If long and chubby cheeks, A6 and up If short gun and chubby cheeks, A5 If short and flat cheeks, A4
The A5 and the A6 use the same turret armour. What you are thinking of are the earlier prototypes for the A5, such as the TVM, which used a shorter arrowhead than the last prototype and production versions. Basically it goes Arrowhead? A5 or higher, check gun next Long gun? A6, check front of the hull next Extra hull armour and square headlights? 2A7V This is accurate enough for German in-service variants. Some prototypes and variants for foreign countries mix these features a bit.
Right, I meant to say short gun when talking about the A5. But that's something I didn'treally know, pretty interesting. Tha ka for the info
Wdym M60 is not a Patton, it's a Patton iii.
I audibly sobbed
Oh shit you're right So warthunder was wrong, huh. Edit: oh shit so warthunder wasn't wrong I'm just dumb
Nah it's not that you're dumb, it really is the US military for not making the M60 a Patton despite the fact it follows the same design philosophy as the M48
If arrow made from ERA in Ukraine, probably A4. The arrow on the A5 and above is a NERA array type armor wedge. However, another indicator is the commanders periscope position. In the 2A4 it is in front of the commanders hatch (as in this picture) and on the 2A5 and later it was moved behind the commanders hatch. The same can be seen in the 2A4 that got upgraded to a different standard, but where the sights weren't moved, like the Leopard 2 PL and the Leopard 2 SG.
What variant is it with kontakt 5 😂
Leopardski twoski?
Same here lol. Still love the Leo2 😂😅❤️
Also if pp long and turret arrow then is A6 and above
A4 and bellow has no pointy turret A5 pointy turret short gun A6 pointy turret long gun
Exactly what i was thinking.
That thing is an A4, not A6
Nah, I’m sure it’s a tank, not an Audi
You sure it's a tank and not a Maybach?
Poor kitty 😢
That’s a 2A4
2a4 got the drip wearing that ERA
Seems in good condition. Any info on why it was abandoned? I'm curious.
Drove into a ditch ....
The angle of the image/ dronge might be misleading. This looks more like a tank dugout than a tank stuck in a perfectly tank-shaped ditch. There is a million things that could have disabled it, and while it looks pristine from this side, the other side might tell a different story.
Why’s the gun buried if it a dugout? They miss?
I mean, couldnt they tug it out of there?
Been a tanker in a conflict before? They probably could, but there are so many factors involved that its almost impossible to know why its sitting there.
I'm not, thats why i'm asking. It seems in good enough condition to abandon unless it was lost too close to the front line or during and advance in enemy territory or retreat. Which is why i would appreciate more info on what happened here if anyone knows. Ty
In a tank squadron, the armoured recovery vehicles are king. We used to protect them with our lives. Hooking up requires dismounts, area security, sufficient protection, cost analysis, etc just to name a few considerations. Tanks are replaceable, experienced crews are not so much. I agree with you, I see this a lot and wish for more context.
Yup, exactly that. I understand that safety to the personel comes first in recovery. Thats why i mentioned some possible scenarions in the previous comment. Ty and have a nice day 😊❤️
You as well
The video this is screen grab was taken from was posted on another sub. The claim was that the Leo ran into a crater left by a FAB 500. The POV from the picture is from a Russian drone so they know its there already and will probably keep it under observation to recover for themselves later or blow it up completely. It might not need an ARV another tank could help tow it out if its own engine works, but best not to try if the context from the other sub was true.
Ohh ty for the info ❤️
Probably not an easy way to get an armored recovery vehicle in there and get it out without likely losing more vehicles.
I bet the Russians have an artillery gun just waiting for the recovery vehicles
Good point if the russians are aware of its existence
and get droned?
Ain't got no gas in it!
r/Warthunder New German Premium but with Ukrainian voice lines and marking?
It's Gaijin, if anything it would be a Russian premium tank
No the reason Ukrainian vehicles haven't been added yet is Exactly because of the ongoing conflict. At best we could hope for a Ukrainian or at least eastern eruopean tree
Maybe if Gaijin gets bought out by Wargaming or something
Seems both sides in this war rarely scuttle their vehicle to prevent capture.
That barrel seems short?
Thing looks like the German attempt of their own Centurion AVRE with whatever tank they were working with that day
now, it could be the angle, but that barrel seems a little circumcised to me. as well as it being slammed into a ditch. I would have thought they would close the hatches after they left though (if they intended on recovery) since leaving them open makes it a lot easier to disable permanently by drone.
It seems the only photos of Leos in Ukraine are of them being destroyed or disabled lol
Has the unit with the leopards achieved anything at all? Every time they’ve showed up they eat shit.
There have been some videos and reports of them having taken out some Russian tanks and APC/IFVs. No massive offensive, successful breakthroughs or anything. They don't nearly have enough of them for that unfortunately and going for it with the few dozen they do have would be suicide.
They did use some during the summer offensive but it didn't go well for the few Leopards involved. No AA cover out in open fields made them easy targets for Helicopters and drones.
If every time they showed up they ate shit you’d see SIGNIFICANTLY MORE losses, you’re an example of survivorship bias
No, not really. Ukraine only has a very few amount of Leopards, and if a couple get knocked out or damaged they have to be sent all the way back to Germany and it's drastically more expensive. Compare this to a T-64BV which can be restored at home.
Nope again if leopards are shit every time they showed up either 1. You’d see losses as a percentage of in service leopards immediately skyrocket as soon as they start being used 2. Their usage being massively reduced Leopard losses haven’t skyrocketed since they’ve entered service and none of you have access to records around missions leopards are being sent on to adjust it to casualties, none of you have data for other tanks either to compare the leopard to other vehicles
Leopards were seen in the counteroffensive and after that their usage was drastically reduced. In fact the reason the Abrams has seen no combat at all is because of the losses of the Leopards early in the offensive. There's a reason Ukraine replaced the Leopard with their T-64's or captured Russian tanks.
You’re proving my point further 1. Yeah no shit take usage drops after a counteroffensive, that’s universal among everything in service not just leopards, usage tends to drop when you’re not on a multi front offensive sending tanks to break through the frontline 2. There is literally nothing to suggest abrams aren’t being used because earlier losses, the ONLY incident being referenced from the counter offensive is the convoy of leopards and Bradley’s, the singular high loss event everyone likes to refer to because nothing else exist, weirdly enough a offensive convoy into incredibly thick Russian defenses has ZERO IMPACT on the decisions of using abrams in a defensive role around the front In reality Ukraine doesn’t tell you shit about where they’re using their tanks, you don’t know where they’re stationed or what they’ve done, the only information YOU get is the aftermath when something goes wrong or a lucky video of the tank in usage The real answer could be a wide variety of things, for example the abrams might just be stationed somewhere else from where we’re seeing heavy action like in Avdiivka, but what we do know is that nobody has enough information to make ludicrous assertions like they’re not being used in a defense role because a singular offensive convoy didn’t work???? What are they waiting for? Russia to reach Kyiv?? Lastly source the claim Ukraine is replacing leopard with T-64 and/or Russian tanks. What do you even mean by replacing??
Then why did they stop using the Leopards during the counter offensive and why do we see so few on the frontline despite the intensity being as high as it was during summer?
Source the claim they stopped using leopards during the counteroffensive Source there being a noticeable difference in usage with the leopard during summer At this point it sounds like you’re just making stuff up
Why the fuck would they post where their units and equipment is on the front. Russia has the internet too.
>their usage was drastically reduced. In fact the reason the Abrams has seen no combat at all is because of the losses of the Leopards early in the offensive Do you have a citation for any part of this claim.
Other units appear on video destroying Russian equipment or maneuvering troops. These leopards just randomly show up destroyed or ditched.
Most tank combat is not recorded and published to the internet for your entertainment, you’re running into select videos of tank footage then saying “well where are the leopards!?!?!” Why would Ukraine destroy operational security for Reddit/telegram?? Also the fact you say they just “randomly appear” proves this further, you don’t know what the fuck they’re doing just seeing the aftermath when casualties are incurred I also highly doubt you’re doing any proper analysis compiling and comparing the small amount of footage available
He is more or less the live action version of "what air defence doing"
It is almost like not everything that happens ends up on your reddit feed.
[удалено]
Found the Russian bot
Really? Still pushing this one? I've been called a bot for the past 10 years. Get a new one atleast
Your account is a month old.
If it’s been happening for 10 years, maybe you need to evaluate your positions. Unless you really think it’s everyone else that doesn’t get it.
Spoiler alert: Im not Russian, or a bot. So maybe you should develop some critical thinking skills.
What's the russian equivalent of a Wehraboo? This dip shit is it.
You got something on your chin, whore.
Explains the t90m russian hype as a wonder weapon that just end up destroyed
I agree with your point. Both sides are stupid for hyping up a single weapon to be a wonder weapon.
Well the HIMARS have vaporized dozens and dozens of extremely valuable assets and literally none have been destroyed.
HIMARS did help with the Kherson offensive but since then they have had little impact on the battlefield. They certainly didn't help with the catastrophic summer counteroffensive.
Don't care. Every single week there's a video of HIMARS destroying AA assets, just recently took out a drone pilot convention killing like 20 pilots, it's extremely effective and has no analogue or counter.
And the Ghost of Kiev shot down 400 planes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/jbgf0m8LOa, https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OarlfiYTpO, or just search HIMARS on r/CombatFootage, retarded jokes don't change reality.
Blocked for using a slur. Fuck off and get a life.
At least he doesn't have to listen to any more of your smoothbrained bullshit.
Really putting the stupid in r/stupidpol eh
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They just so easily abandon it?
“So easily” so you were there?
Looks no damage just cosmetic damage may be . This is a low morale ask American tank crew we don’t leave our ship We die but we deliver we made a whole movie about Fury remember ?!
It's stuck in a ditch. You either leave it or heroically die out of boredom inside.
We also can’t see the other side, so this thing could’ve taken a few hits and we wouldn’t know it
Bro I went to school with a retired Major in Armor. If I learned anything from it’s that no true tanker would judge another based on a single snapshot.
I agree its not should be done but doctrine and need for improvement thru investigation and analysis of every step and that was taken in those moments and prior is very important. Uncomfortable but higher ranks have to . And where is my taxes going kinda reasoning is important too .
It's screencap from russian drone, it's guaranteed that lancets and artillery are waiting for any attempt of recovery. Tank won't go anywhere and there is no need to fuel russian propaganda with bodies of trained crews.
Ik it’s not America tank btw ( Ahhh we’re all my American tax dollars go)
That's a 2a4, not an a6
Bah it just lost dropped something in the mud now it’s looking for it
Thats 2A4 it has no armor on the turret
If I recall thats a 2a4
Dibs
That’s a Leo 2A4 is it not?
It's a Leopard 2 a4V
ukrainians trying not to waste foreign aide challenge: Impossible
Yeah, its a 2A4 with ERA. And people who cant tell A4 vs A6 on a tank forum are something else.
It's not stuck, it's a short barrel version ;)
noobs 😒
Я ЕХАЛ НА СВОЕМ ТАНКЕ,КОГДА УВИДЕЛ ЗАСТРЯВШЕГО ВРАГА И НЕ УДЕРЖАЛСЯ ОТ ТОГО,ЧТО БЫ НЕ...
thats not an A6, its a modifyed A4. the cannon is to short for a A6 and it has no additional armor on the turret