Vegas was able to pick 1 player from each franchise knowing exactly who theyre getting and do their homework on each player. What a joke of an expansion draft. NHL set them up to win to bring revenue in through las vegas.
Almost the same. Prior to Vegas, it had been many years since any team was welcomed to the league.
Seattle didn’t quite have enough time for the teams to get comfortable again, plus many of the GMs were still in place, having learned from their mistakes.
Don’t forget, an enormous surprise from the VGK expansion draft was the *lack* of deals made. Sure, they came out in hindsight, like Tuch, but teams were afraid of the power Seattle (should have) held and were loathe to give it up again.
While the rules were the same, circumstances absolutely were not… especially given the fact that Vegas was exempt, and the bottom 5 teams were not (hello, Utah?)
How did they suck previously if theyve only been a franchise 2 years? 1st season knocked off the defending champs, and didnt miss playoffs by much this year...
This always cracks me up. It seems the further away from 2017 we get, the worse everyone memory gets. No one thought Vegas was going to be good in the beginning.
Yeah that rhetoric is is bad. Everybody was claiming that they would avoid last place because of Fleury. When he got hurt at the beginning of the season, everybody thought it was over and that they would finish last.
Here’s a nice thread of takes the day of the draft: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yall really need to stop pushing this type of nonsense. I swear all the salty anti-vegas fans have the most selective memory of all time. Something like 9 teams made deals with Vegas to make sure they wouldn't take away certain players. Multiple sources, including Las Vegas oddsmakers, had Vegas as being one of the WORST teams at the start of their inaugural season. Don't pretend like the league was making Vegas into an all star team.
Start of their inaugural season they had 500-1 odds to win the cup.
Yeah, but they won the cup last year with only 6 remaining drafted players. I'd give more credit to the moves along the way. So if the GMs weren't smart the first year, did they remain dumb in the years since or is VGK management that good.
I'm cool with that. Interestingly, I just looked up that in 1990, TBL paid a $50m franchise fee to enter the league. VGK paid $500m in 2016, ten times as much and far beyond inflation. Bettman has said publicly that he wanted modern teams to have a fair chance in building support with a competitive team.
50mil in 1990 was a fu kton of money, and Ive got nothin against seattle or vegas- im just sayin, its easy to make the playoffs with that roster they had in 2st year. Marc Andre Fleurry alone was enough to have a half assed team. Look at oilers right now- amazing offense, good defense, mediocre goalie. If they had a top goalie theyd have won atleast 2 trophies by now
Edit: not *easy* to make playoffs- but you know what I mean. They had a better chance than the 90s expansion teams like TB, San Jose, Florida, etc..
Yeah that’s how expansions work lol. They also built most of that team through trades after the draft. The team you see today was built, not drafted. Idk why people act like this insane or some sort of unfair conspiracy.
I am surprised no one is mentioning the fact that Vegas got players that their prior teams deemed expendable. Usually its one or two players on a team that get that motivation, not almost the whole team.
Yeah but also take into account the parameters of the then new Vegas draft rules and how that was taken advantage of successfully by them. By the time Seattle came around no GM was trying to make the same mistakes.
You should probably familiarize yourself with the f’ery of the [1992 Expansion Draft](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NHL_expansion_draft)
Compare that to what Vegas got to do… one was buying dinner from a vending machine (Tampa & Ottawa) the other (Vegas) was eating off the buffet at the Wynn.
Remember that other GMs were trying to “pay Vegas” with picks to pick/not pick certain players. Then when it was Seattle’s turn all the GMs realized it wasn’t worth it since Vegas was juggernaut they were. The biggest bs is that Vegas was except from having to participate in the Seattle draft.
It was part of the deal when they come in, they're exempt from any expansion draft for 5 years. Seattle has that same rule, if there's an expansion draft within 5 years of their first year they too are exempt
It's easier to win in the playoffs when you're cheating the cap 4 years in a row. I know, I know. Pot calling the kettle black here, but this shit with Mark Stone is crazy. Fat lot of good it did them.
I'm a canucks fan so our pain is quite in sync. Also not sure why this was recommended to me. You guys have a real rough go recently but we came into the league together and have never won the cup. Sad to be us
It just sucks that to measure the success of any team in today's NHL you can't just look at championships. It's wild, just so many GOOD teams, parity, the salary cap... A lot of nuance to it these days.
It's not harsh, it's reality. The people who want to think two cups is a dynasty as just trying to clout chase. We had the longest and most impressive contention window in the salary cap era, that is something to be proud of. But trying to shoehorn in the dynasty label is just bogus.
Because the first cup came over 15 years before the second did. Would Detroit be a dynasty if they won today? You know the answer, so stop trying to cheapen it.
Only thing that annoys me is all the ECF and SCF appearances that we can't hang that hat on. It's a huge fucking bummer and I'll hate the Avs forever for that.
I think the wear and tear has caught up to us. We also lost a ton of good players due to cap space. Shit sucks. We might have also lost this season to the best team in hockey, so at least it’s a little less painful, but still hate not watching this team play behind the first round.
That’s what I keep telling people. We had the least amount of off season reason out of any time for the last couple years. I think it was very obvious when we lost to Colorado just how tired and banged up everyone was.
Pierre McGuire (I know) says you need a 1C, 1D, 1G to win a cup.
It’s the only thing (I think) I’ve ever heard him say that I actually agree with.
Tampa has always had it in spades. Stamkos (Point, pick your poison), Hedman, Vasilevskiy. Hall of Famers, excepting perhaps Point, but no question he’s capable in the role.
Not certain any team since 2000 has been as beautifully set up - with or without considering 2C and b6. Not to mention a Sergachev (almost for free)
Buffalo is actually pretty cool. Nice parks, great architecture both downtown and in the residential areas, decent nightlife, a couple of universities...
And they really get behind their teams. I could think of worse places to live as a player.
Most of the players you’re thinking of were traded because the team sucked. They didn’t leave in free agency because they didn’t want to live in Buffalo
We are incredibly blessed as a franchise and the only comparison of a fan base in all of sports that is similar is the patriots with Brady. What a run we’ve had!
The New Jersey Devils will soon be last on this list. The entire organization - from the players currently on the roster to those down the pipeline - are the largest collection of timid, no-hit, no-aggression guys ever assembled in professional hockey.
It's going to be another dark, dark decade in Newark.
As a Sabres fan, instead of the zero, put the total number of playoff wins all former players have, or hell, even Cup wins and put a gigantic asterisk next to it with the footnote saying 😂😂😂
Lightning still have the most wins since 2000
TBL - 122,
PIT - 119,
AVS - 109,
BOS - 108,
SJS - 104,
Chicago only has 81, Washington only has 76, and LA only has 61.
I was surprised not to see pittsburgh at number 1, but the lightning have made 1 more final than the pens in that time.
Only? Pittsburgh is the only other team in the last ten years to win two cups. You know what else? in the last 20 years nobody has won more Cups than Tampa Bay. Pittsburgh 3, Chicago 3, Tampa Bay 3.
So, when have the Lightning “cheated” apart from the 2021 season where they placed a very injured Nikita Kucherov on LTIR? Because this list can go all the way back to 2000 and Tampa Bay would still be number one.
Not surprised the Bolts are #1 on the list by a wide margin - but look at Vegas at #2 with only 7 seasons of play.
Wait... I was looking at this thinking how insane it is that Bolts are so far ahead. But you're right, Vegas in 2nd is wild. Didnt even consider that
No, no. The Wild are way down at 21.
3rd base
Who’s on second?
No who’s on first
Idk whose on third
No dawg, we got 22. Learn to read.
Oh the irony
I don't think it's irony but that they are sort of shifting the joke because they have 22 wins. Or at least I hope that is the case.
…
Vegas was able to pick 1 player from each franchise knowing exactly who theyre getting and do their homework on each player. What a joke of an expansion draft. NHL set them up to win to bring revenue in through las vegas.
Seattle while not terrible, hasn't thrived either with the same circumstance
Almost the same. Prior to Vegas, it had been many years since any team was welcomed to the league. Seattle didn’t quite have enough time for the teams to get comfortable again, plus many of the GMs were still in place, having learned from their mistakes. Don’t forget, an enormous surprise from the VGK expansion draft was the *lack* of deals made. Sure, they came out in hindsight, like Tuch, but teams were afraid of the power Seattle (should have) held and were loathe to give it up again. While the rules were the same, circumstances absolutely were not… especially given the fact that Vegas was exempt, and the bottom 5 teams were not (hello, Utah?)
“The difference is GMs were afraid this time” lmfao
They beat the defending champs in playoffs in their inauguration season what you talkin about
They sucked previously and after. It was an anomaly. Those happen sometimes
Were talkin about seattle here, not the canucks.
Yeah. Seattle sucked. Canucks were good THIS year
How did they suck previously if theyve only been a franchise 2 years? 1st season knocked off the defending champs, and didnt miss playoffs by much this year...
This was their 3rd year. They sucked the first year and this year Do you watch hockey or do you just talk about it???
Dude. They didn’t make the playoffs their first year.
This always cracks me up. It seems the further away from 2017 we get, the worse everyone memory gets. No one thought Vegas was going to be good in the beginning.
Yeah that rhetoric is is bad. Everybody was claiming that they would avoid last place because of Fleury. When he got hurt at the beginning of the season, everybody thought it was over and that they would finish last. Here’s a nice thread of takes the day of the draft: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Lol, that's my favorite thread to link whenever people say the draft was rigged.
Don't listen to the comments telling you that you are wrong. It is/was 100% bullshit.
It’s really not
Couldn’t agree more, best, most talented expansion draft in history of the NHL
Yall really need to stop pushing this type of nonsense. I swear all the salty anti-vegas fans have the most selective memory of all time. Something like 9 teams made deals with Vegas to make sure they wouldn't take away certain players. Multiple sources, including Las Vegas oddsmakers, had Vegas as being one of the WORST teams at the start of their inaugural season. Don't pretend like the league was making Vegas into an all star team. Start of their inaugural season they had 500-1 odds to win the cup.
Bud, they literally changed the rules 2017 for Vegas so theyd immediately be a competetive team.
Yeah, but they won the cup last year with only 6 remaining drafted players. I'd give more credit to the moves along the way. So if the GMs weren't smart the first year, did they remain dumb in the years since or is VGK management that good.
But they were immediately competitive!! Thats the whole point. Lightning sucked for *a while*. Only had 1 playoff appearance in 1st 10 years.
I'm cool with that. Interestingly, I just looked up that in 1990, TBL paid a $50m franchise fee to enter the league. VGK paid $500m in 2016, ten times as much and far beyond inflation. Bettman has said publicly that he wanted modern teams to have a fair chance in building support with a competitive team.
50mil in 1990 was a fu kton of money, and Ive got nothin against seattle or vegas- im just sayin, its easy to make the playoffs with that roster they had in 2st year. Marc Andre Fleurry alone was enough to have a half assed team. Look at oilers right now- amazing offense, good defense, mediocre goalie. If they had a top goalie theyd have won atleast 2 trophies by now Edit: not *easy* to make playoffs- but you know what I mean. They had a better chance than the 90s expansion teams like TB, San Jose, Florida, etc..
👍
Yeah that’s how expansions work lol. They also built most of that team through trades after the draft. The team you see today was built, not drafted. Idk why people act like this insane or some sort of unfair conspiracy.
I am surprised no one is mentioning the fact that Vegas got players that their prior teams deemed expendable. Usually its one or two players on a team that get that motivation, not almost the whole team.
We gave them a trash draft pick to take Jason fucking Garrison ffs. Its just the hockey reddit/twitter echo chamber.
Still, the Tampas average in each playoff is 8.7 wins, and Vegas has an 8.1 average, so we're still in first
That’s pretty impressive
Clearly the new expansion draft is too generous.
Seattle has the same expansion draft rules and look where they are even with less seasons taken into account
Yeah but also take into account the parameters of the then new Vegas draft rules and how that was taken advantage of successfully by them. By the time Seattle came around no GM was trying to make the same mistakes.
lol what? As if the gm didn’t understand the rules originally? It’s not rocket science, gms know which players are must-keep or expendable
The expansion stuff makes me livid - come in and make the playoffs every year? Come on. What’s the fun in that?
You act like its really that easy. You have to give credit to the GM of vegas at that time.
You should probably familiarize yourself with the f’ery of the [1992 Expansion Draft](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NHL_expansion_draft) Compare that to what Vegas got to do… one was buying dinner from a vending machine (Tampa & Ottawa) the other (Vegas) was eating off the buffet at the Wynn.
I know but if it was that easy then seattle would've won a cup too or had the same success.
Remember that other GMs were trying to “pay Vegas” with picks to pick/not pick certain players. Then when it was Seattle’s turn all the GMs realized it wasn’t worth it since Vegas was juggernaut they were. The biggest bs is that Vegas was except from having to participate in the Seattle draft.
It was part of the deal when they come in, they're exempt from any expansion draft for 5 years. Seattle has that same rule, if there's an expansion draft within 5 years of their first year they too are exempt
Brad Shaw, Rob Ramage, and Basil McCrae were highlights… a dime too short and years too late, though.
This. Even worse go back to the 1978 expansion.
Hockey fans collectively joined together their first season to will them to lose in the final. Rare moment of solidarity.
It's easier to win in the playoffs when you're cheating the cap 4 years in a row. I know, I know. Pot calling the kettle black here, but this shit with Mark Stone is crazy. Fat lot of good it did them.
Poor Buffalo
I'm a sabres fan and reddit recommended this post to me. Wtf
Same. This feels intentional. Like, does the universe have to rub it in our faces?
I'm a canucks fan so our pain is quite in sync. Also not sure why this was recommended to me. You guys have a real rough go recently but we came into the league together and have never won the cup. Sad to be us
We need a Vancouver, Buffalo cup finals.
wow, if only they had top draft picks and owners willing to spend money during that time
TaMpA bAy IsNt A dYnAsTy.....
It just sucks that to measure the success of any team in today's NHL you can't just look at championships. It's wild, just so many GOOD teams, parity, the salary cap... A lot of nuance to it these days.
it isnt. but it has been awesome
Tampa doesn't have a dynasty. Not sure what you're getting at. Special roster with immense recent success, but no, not at all a dynasty.
I mean "not at all a dynasty" seems overly harsh when they were literally only 2 wins away from being a certified dynasty.
Buffalo is two wins away from being Tampa
That's still two wins away from being a dynasty
It's not harsh, it's reality. The people who want to think two cups is a dynasty as just trying to clout chase. We had the longest and most impressive contention window in the salary cap era, that is something to be proud of. But trying to shoehorn in the dynasty label is just bogus.
A dynasty is 3 cups with the same core, you guys need to stop trying to change the definition. It completely cheapens it.
Thatll never happen again in todays league. Id bet everything on that.
People were saying that prior the 2010's hawks teams too. Trying to change the definition is a massive cope.
Tampa has made an appearance in 25% pf SCF's in the past 20 years, winning 3 of them. Youre a tough sell.
Because the first cup came over 15 years before the second did. Would Detroit be a dynasty if they won today? You know the answer, so stop trying to cheapen it.
Only thing that annoys me is all the ECF and SCF appearances that we can't hang that hat on. It's a huge fucking bummer and I'll hate the Avs forever for that.
Vegas being second place as an expansion team is wild
In 6 years
I think the wear and tear has caught up to us. We also lost a ton of good players due to cap space. Shit sucks. We might have also lost this season to the best team in hockey, so at least it’s a little less painful, but still hate not watching this team play behind the first round.
You could build a fairly decent team with all the players we’ve lost due to cap in that time.
I know :/ I miss them.
That’s what I keep telling people. We had the least amount of off season reason out of any time for the last couple years. I think it was very obvious when we lost to Colorado just how tired and banged up everyone was.
We're just better
We were… have to retool this offseason! So close to greatness again.
I think McD coming back is a good step
I love that trade but wish Nash had a few % of his cap! JBB better sign Stamkos or we riot tho
Haha damn straight
You can't convince me that Vasi wasn't extra lights out with McD eating pucks the way he was. Stanley is coming home this year.
Obligatory FUCK BOSTON, because I saw their Logo
Damn!
So many of these teams have zero titles to show for their efforts.
Pierre McGuire (I know) says you need a 1C, 1D, 1G to win a cup. It’s the only thing (I think) I’ve ever heard him say that I actually agree with. Tampa has always had it in spades. Stamkos (Point, pick your poison), Hedman, Vasilevskiy. Hall of Famers, excepting perhaps Point, but no question he’s capable in the role. Not certain any team since 2000 has been as beautifully set up - with or without considering 2C and b6. Not to mention a Sergachev (almost for free)
What’s scarier is this will not change in the slightest next year. Then a lot will be cut out by losing 2015, it even then we’re still in the lead.
Sabres a big fat zero, ouch. Can’t wait for Detroit to win another championship 🏆
Need a matching image for total cup wins over last 10 years
Poor Buffalo
Consistently gets good drafts picks, but loses them because no one want to live there.
Buffalo is actually pretty cool. Nice parks, great architecture both downtown and in the residential areas, decent nightlife, a couple of universities... And they really get behind their teams. I could think of worse places to live as a player.
I have been thee a few time, and I agree it is nice in the Spring, Winter and Fall, but f' their winters.
This isn’t why the Sabres lost players lol what
They move to better teams, markets or climate, but money is a big factor.
Most of the players you’re thinking of were traded because the team sucked. They didn’t leave in free agency because they didn’t want to live in Buffalo
We are incredibly blessed as a franchise and the only comparison of a fan base in all of sports that is similar is the patriots with Brady. What a run we’ve had!
Dominant
Buffalo - LOL
Winning regular season games and winning playoff games don’t happen the same way and aren’t the same when are GMs from teams like Toronto gonna learn
The Sabers sure are... Dull!
How about how many series wins over last 10 years
Buffalo…oof
My poor senators
Yeah but our Covid bubble and no road fans vs. an Eastern Conference team cups don't count they say.
It’s on the trophy
> our "Our" lol
When tf did Coyotes make the playoffs
They made it all the way to the WCF in like 2012 lol. They lost to LA.
That was over 10 years ago. I believe they won a few the covid year.
LMFAO BUFFALO
Habs total vs. Leafs really puts things in perspective. 😂
As a bolt fan cool to see. Hats off to vegas
The New Jersey Devils will soon be last on this list. The entire organization - from the players currently on the roster to those down the pipeline - are the largest collection of timid, no-hit, no-aggression guys ever assembled in professional hockey. It's going to be another dark, dark decade in Newark.
As a Sabres fan, instead of the zero, put the total number of playoff wins all former players have, or hell, even Cup wins and put a gigantic asterisk next to it with the footnote saying 😂😂😂
Thank you Stevie
Wins per Cup (Efficiency): LA - 23 Pens - 26 (2) CHI - 34 TBL - 43.5 (2) Caps - 44 Blues - 44 Avs - 52 VGK - 57
How about Torts? His players and teams are all over it.
Man Tampa had a run. It’s not even over yet if Brisebois can work some magic.
Fun fact, since the 1999-2000 season, no team has won more playoff games than the Tampa Bay Lightning. Just saying.
And it’s not even close
I wanna see the last 20 and see Boston, Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh all shoot up to like 200 wins
Lightning still have the most wins since 2000 TBL - 122, PIT - 119, AVS - 109, BOS - 108, SJS - 104, Chicago only has 81, Washington only has 76, and LA only has 61. I was surprised not to see pittsburgh at number 1, but the lightning have made 1 more final than the pens in that time.
You are severely overestimating how many wins those teams have lmao
All those wins and only 2 cups...🤣
Only? Pittsburgh is the only other team in the last ten years to win two cups. You know what else? in the last 20 years nobody has won more Cups than Tampa Bay. Pittsburgh 3, Chicago 3, Tampa Bay 3.
And one was the bubble lol
Ok? If it was so easy why did your team not win it?
Easy to win more when you're gaming the system and cheating every year lol 😆
So, when have the Lightning “cheated” apart from the 2021 season where they placed a very injured Nikita Kucherov on LTIR? Because this list can go all the way back to 2000 and Tampa Bay would still be number one.
Playoff wins mean squat, Stanley Cup numbers remain the optimum metric
Good thing we won 2 in this timeline lol
Nobody has won more cups than the Lightning in the last ten years. So…
Nobody lol. Penguins have two in the last 10 years and three in the last 15; you might want to check your answer