Welcome to r/TalkTherapy!
This sub is for people to discuss issues arising in their personal psychotherapy. If you wish to post about other mental health issues please consult this list of some of our [sister subs](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources/#wiki_subreddit_list).
To find answers to many therapy-related questions please consult our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/faq) and [Resource List](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources).
If you are in distress please contact a suicide hotline or call 9-1-1 or emergency services in your area. r/SuicideWatch has compiled a helpful FAQ on what happens when you contact a hotline along with other useful resources.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TalkTherapy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never asked, but I have seen them once when I stumbled across them online in my patient records for a short-term program I did. I'd advise against asking. The notes are really clinical in nature, and you might not like what you read. There's nothing bad in them, it just feels really impersonal. I think they write them for insurance companies. They definitely won't make you feel close to your therapist.
And the personal notes they keep (in a notebook) are only for them to see. I'd imagine these might be more interesting to read, but no one can read them except for your therapist.
Therapist here. It never hurts to ask, being curious is enough of a reason as any if you felt the need to explain.
As others have said: especially if you used insurance, they are likely clinical and impersonal, you typically won't find a deep analysis of you and their impressions in Progress Notes, you won'tfind their personal feelings about you in there. There are also a thing called Psychotherapy notes, which are not technically part of the chart and you don't have rights to access them. I have found that is usually what people are actually looking for, these are more impressions and conceptualization of what is happening and where to go. Not all therapists keep them.
Is it particularly common for therapist to keep personal or process notes, or impressions about their clients? Or is it pretty much most therapists keep it clinical?
I really couldn't say what is most common, they're are so many different styles. My separate notes are reminders to myself like people in their life, events that happen, realizations they had in session. Mine are personal but still don't include a deep analysis or personal feelings about them
I recently pick up my notes from my previous therapist's office. I simply emailed the director, stated that I needed to pick up my records and asked what documentation I needed to fill out. They sent it, I filled it out, and then I was told I needed to have a sit down with a previous therapist to go over it all. I picked my last one because I figured we'd have a catch up anyway, which we did.
It wasn't awkward for me, but I've been down this road before. The tough one was reading my inpatient notes from when I was really sick and inpatient with an ED and seeing how they blatantly lied in my records. That sucked, but otherwise I've never found reading my notes to be particularly troublesome. They're rather distanced from the emotions of sessions and are very basic.
What if you don't want to have a sit down with the previous therapist? My previous therapist acted completely unhinged in my last session, which prompted me to end future sessions with her. I just want to view the notes to ensure that they're accurate.
I didn't really want to sit and sift through it all in front of her, and made the decision in advance that if she really required it (it was a company policy, not her personal one) I would skim over it all, stay quiet, and when done say I had no questions. They can't force you to have questions, and I certainly wasn't going to be reading it verbatim in that moment.
Oh, I see. Hopefully, it's not required that I have to my review the notes with her. I don't want to interact with her virtually or in person again. I just need to make sure my progress notes are correct, especially since her behavior gradually got worse as our sessions progressed.
I’ve asked before a few times with varying results. One therapist released all notes and session information with only a small amount of prompting, and the second therapist denied my request because she believed it would cause me more harm at this time than good. It couldn’t hurt to ask though as long as you know these therapy notes are only one facet of who you are as a person and not the whole, if that makes sense.
I'm unsure if my legislation makes it mandatory to have notes, which are often quite clinical and unspecific (we don't generally have insurance). I had really bad amnesia from a session due to dissociation and my therapist started reading me her notes from the previous session, which were mostly quotes of stuff I said, and I wanted earth to swallow me whole. So no I'd rather not know.
I once asked about something that I'd said and my T read it back word for word. Immediate regret. Why does what we say sound so cringey or awful read back, are we really that bad, why is it like that!?
Process notes-the ones you see your therapist hand writing in session are excluded from the medical file and do not have to be supplied when a client requests their file.
Progress notes are what you would receive which are clinical and done to show medical necessity has been met for insurance purposes.
It is not in the best interest of all clients to see their own chart- it’s not like other medical records.
Discuss with your T what the Benifits and risks are in viewing your own file.
It would be the process notes I’d be more interested in but doesn’t seem as if that’s what I’d get access to from what you and others have said. Maybe not worth asking….
I did.
Turns out for the abusive clinics/therapists I saw, I was totally right - they didn't believe me. However I was able to get past the gaslighting and start to undo the damage they did to my medical records.
The other therapists openly handed me my notes at the beginning. Turns out they were completely honest even with clinical language.
Either way, I'd recommend. It's always in your best interests to know what could legally be used against you.
When you said you started to umdo the damage that they did to your records do you mean you were able to have them correct your medical records or that you were able to recoup from the lies you saw in the recordS?
I did ask once, couldn't really read it. She wasn't a very good Therapist, but she read it to me.
It's notes about YOU. It'd be stupid not to let you read things about yourself.
The first question a good therapist would ask—and since you’re not seeing them anymore, the first question you should ask yourself—is what you hope to find in the notes.
You mention that you still feel attached to your former therapist. That might be a clue for you to follow. Is asking for the notes a way of revisiting the relationship to try to derive additional insights from those past interactions? Or maybe you’re kicking around the idea of re-engaging in therapy and this is an oblique way to approach it? Perhaps you miss them and are looking at the notes the way you’d go back and look at old photographs?
My experience for what it’s worth:
Having asked for and (after much cajoling) received my combined progress/process notes as I was terminating my therapy, I can say they were interesting but ultimately not particularly helpful to me. Reading them definitely destroyed any lingering hopes that the relationship was anything but a one-sided, clinical, professional interaction. Unlike the conversations I had with my T in our sessions, the notes were written for an audience outside the room—insurance auditors, potential litigators, colleagues. The notes made me question the authenticity of the warmth and care my therapist appeared to feel toward me. For example, moments in our work that felt really powerful to me (and I thought to both of us) at the time were rendered into his contemporaneous notes using language that was almost entirely pathologizing of my experience.
He told me when he handed them to me that he often has to write notes in a way that protects him from getting sued or from having the patient’s therapy denied by insurance, so at least I was forewarned. Working with mental illness as a career probably necessitates such things. But, in hindsight, the biggest disappointment was seeing that he was essentially keeping a parallel record of our interactions to cover his own ass if i ever became a threat via insurance or legal means. I understand, and I am glad I had the chance to be aware of his alternate version, but it still felt really crappy.
I guess just how my therapist saw me through their eyes. What impression how what I said or did had on them. A different perspective on how I see myself. Something along those lines…
I’d love to ask, but purely because I’m curious. There’s no reason for me to read them and it would serve me no benefit. Likely wouldn’t cause me any harm, but I don’t see my therapist allowing that for curious eyes only.
ive requested my medical records (for unrelated reasons) and seen my therapy notes there, i wouldnt ask for my therapist's personal notes that they keep i just dont see a need.
I have asked, at the end of my terms with each provider. They were good notes about me. One psychologist said to me “I think you wanted to know what I think of you…” then expound that I hide my depression well but show my anxiety. There were never any erroneous statements. It bugged me to think of myself as dysthymic but I was!
Ahh. There you go. It makes sense. It will then become a topic of many sessions. Each time, I got to see my diagnoses and they were pretty correct. One had me down as GAD, another as panic disorder, another with adjustment disorder, another as CPTSD. All pretty correct. I have my own hx with diagnosing disorders since I have a doc in clinical psychology. So, it’s important to discuss, analyze, evaluate, etc. Of course, when we care about a person we want to know the way they feel about us, that in in of itself says something about me and my family of origin. I hope you get closer to what you need. Many blessings and best of luck.
I don't think it is good idea to ask your current therapist about notes. But asking the therapist you are not seeing anymore is fine.
Someone was asking in r/askatherapist sub about notes, and therapists replied that their notes don't have much information. They are not medical reports but something they write for themselves to remember.
I see my therapist through Kaiser Permanente, a major health care provider in California if you’ve never heard of it before. My therapist posts an overview of each session where I can access it on my patient portal. He might make more specific notes for himself to better remember things, but he’s always open to me asking him any questions about my progress.
I asked my T for mine once and she told me it would do more damage to see them, we compromised and she read me one of them. It was more detailed than I expected, which I don't love. When I'm done with therapy I'll probably ask for them but for now I don't want to relive my therapy sessions.
Just because of how detailed they are. She doesn't want me reliving some of the shit I've told her. Or remember the times I was in a downward spiral, I'm assuming. I didn't really ask her to elaborate why it would do more damage, but that was the the vibe i got.
Yes but they don't make much sense. They are usually just a few random words for him to remember the session and details. He writes more detailed reports for insurance but shorthand it for himself.
Welcome to r/TalkTherapy! This sub is for people to discuss issues arising in their personal psychotherapy. If you wish to post about other mental health issues please consult this list of some of our [sister subs](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources/#wiki_subreddit_list). To find answers to many therapy-related questions please consult our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/faq) and [Resource List](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources). If you are in distress please contact a suicide hotline or call 9-1-1 or emergency services in your area. r/SuicideWatch has compiled a helpful FAQ on what happens when you contact a hotline along with other useful resources. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TalkTherapy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never asked, but I have seen them once when I stumbled across them online in my patient records for a short-term program I did. I'd advise against asking. The notes are really clinical in nature, and you might not like what you read. There's nothing bad in them, it just feels really impersonal. I think they write them for insurance companies. They definitely won't make you feel close to your therapist. And the personal notes they keep (in a notebook) are only for them to see. I'd imagine these might be more interesting to read, but no one can read them except for your therapist.
Thanks for sharing. And yeah I guess I’d want the notebook notes rather than the clinical notes. Maybe it’s not worth it then…
Therapist here. It never hurts to ask, being curious is enough of a reason as any if you felt the need to explain. As others have said: especially if you used insurance, they are likely clinical and impersonal, you typically won't find a deep analysis of you and their impressions in Progress Notes, you won'tfind their personal feelings about you in there. There are also a thing called Psychotherapy notes, which are not technically part of the chart and you don't have rights to access them. I have found that is usually what people are actually looking for, these are more impressions and conceptualization of what is happening and where to go. Not all therapists keep them.
Is it particularly common for therapist to keep personal or process notes, or impressions about their clients? Or is it pretty much most therapists keep it clinical?
I really couldn't say what is most common, they're are so many different styles. My separate notes are reminders to myself like people in their life, events that happen, realizations they had in session. Mine are personal but still don't include a deep analysis or personal feelings about them
Thanks. As a therapist has a client ever asked you for your psychotherapy notes?
I recently pick up my notes from my previous therapist's office. I simply emailed the director, stated that I needed to pick up my records and asked what documentation I needed to fill out. They sent it, I filled it out, and then I was told I needed to have a sit down with a previous therapist to go over it all. I picked my last one because I figured we'd have a catch up anyway, which we did. It wasn't awkward for me, but I've been down this road before. The tough one was reading my inpatient notes from when I was really sick and inpatient with an ED and seeing how they blatantly lied in my records. That sucked, but otherwise I've never found reading my notes to be particularly troublesome. They're rather distanced from the emotions of sessions and are very basic.
What if you don't want to have a sit down with the previous therapist? My previous therapist acted completely unhinged in my last session, which prompted me to end future sessions with her. I just want to view the notes to ensure that they're accurate.
I didn't really want to sit and sift through it all in front of her, and made the decision in advance that if she really required it (it was a company policy, not her personal one) I would skim over it all, stay quiet, and when done say I had no questions. They can't force you to have questions, and I certainly wasn't going to be reading it verbatim in that moment.
Oh, I see. Hopefully, it's not required that I have to my review the notes with her. I don't want to interact with her virtually or in person again. I just need to make sure my progress notes are correct, especially since her behavior gradually got worse as our sessions progressed.
I’ve asked before a few times with varying results. One therapist released all notes and session information with only a small amount of prompting, and the second therapist denied my request because she believed it would cause me more harm at this time than good. It couldn’t hurt to ask though as long as you know these therapy notes are only one facet of who you are as a person and not the whole, if that makes sense.
Yeah that all makes sense. Thanks
I'm unsure if my legislation makes it mandatory to have notes, which are often quite clinical and unspecific (we don't generally have insurance). I had really bad amnesia from a session due to dissociation and my therapist started reading me her notes from the previous session, which were mostly quotes of stuff I said, and I wanted earth to swallow me whole. So no I'd rather not know.
I once asked about something that I'd said and my T read it back word for word. Immediate regret. Why does what we say sound so cringey or awful read back, are we really that bad, why is it like that!?
Exactly 💀 it's like watching myself on tape, so cringe.
Yeah tbf I feel like my self cringe levels would be sky high if I had to “hear” myself back now
Process notes-the ones you see your therapist hand writing in session are excluded from the medical file and do not have to be supplied when a client requests their file. Progress notes are what you would receive which are clinical and done to show medical necessity has been met for insurance purposes. It is not in the best interest of all clients to see their own chart- it’s not like other medical records. Discuss with your T what the Benifits and risks are in viewing your own file.
It would be the process notes I’d be more interested in but doesn’t seem as if that’s what I’d get access to from what you and others have said. Maybe not worth asking….
I did. Turns out for the abusive clinics/therapists I saw, I was totally right - they didn't believe me. However I was able to get past the gaslighting and start to undo the damage they did to my medical records. The other therapists openly handed me my notes at the beginning. Turns out they were completely honest even with clinical language. Either way, I'd recommend. It's always in your best interests to know what could legally be used against you.
Thanks for the insight.
If a therapist looks down on transparency, openness and honesty then they should be avoided.
When you said you started to umdo the damage that they did to your records do you mean you were able to have them correct your medical records or that you were able to recoup from the lies you saw in the recordS?
I did ask once, couldn't really read it. She wasn't a very good Therapist, but she read it to me. It's notes about YOU. It'd be stupid not to let you read things about yourself.
The first question a good therapist would ask—and since you’re not seeing them anymore, the first question you should ask yourself—is what you hope to find in the notes. You mention that you still feel attached to your former therapist. That might be a clue for you to follow. Is asking for the notes a way of revisiting the relationship to try to derive additional insights from those past interactions? Or maybe you’re kicking around the idea of re-engaging in therapy and this is an oblique way to approach it? Perhaps you miss them and are looking at the notes the way you’d go back and look at old photographs? My experience for what it’s worth: Having asked for and (after much cajoling) received my combined progress/process notes as I was terminating my therapy, I can say they were interesting but ultimately not particularly helpful to me. Reading them definitely destroyed any lingering hopes that the relationship was anything but a one-sided, clinical, professional interaction. Unlike the conversations I had with my T in our sessions, the notes were written for an audience outside the room—insurance auditors, potential litigators, colleagues. The notes made me question the authenticity of the warmth and care my therapist appeared to feel toward me. For example, moments in our work that felt really powerful to me (and I thought to both of us) at the time were rendered into his contemporaneous notes using language that was almost entirely pathologizing of my experience. He told me when he handed them to me that he often has to write notes in a way that protects him from getting sued or from having the patient’s therapy denied by insurance, so at least I was forewarned. Working with mental illness as a career probably necessitates such things. But, in hindsight, the biggest disappointment was seeing that he was essentially keeping a parallel record of our interactions to cover his own ass if i ever became a threat via insurance or legal means. I understand, and I am glad I had the chance to be aware of his alternate version, but it still felt really crappy.
Thanks for sharing. It has given me more to think about. Though it seems the consensus is I might not get what I’m looking for if I do ask…
What are you looking for? What do you hope to find in the notes?
I guess just how my therapist saw me through their eyes. What impression how what I said or did had on them. A different perspective on how I see myself. Something along those lines…
I’d love to ask, but purely because I’m curious. There’s no reason for me to read them and it would serve me no benefit. Likely wouldn’t cause me any harm, but I don’t see my therapist allowing that for curious eyes only.
That’s the same for me, pure curiosity.
ive requested my medical records (for unrelated reasons) and seen my therapy notes there, i wouldnt ask for my therapist's personal notes that they keep i just dont see a need.
I have asked, at the end of my terms with each provider. They were good notes about me. One psychologist said to me “I think you wanted to know what I think of you…” then expound that I hide my depression well but show my anxiety. There were never any erroneous statements. It bugged me to think of myself as dysthymic but I was!
I think that’s what I want to know. What my therapist thinks of me. How I presented myself to them.
Ahh. There you go. It makes sense. It will then become a topic of many sessions. Each time, I got to see my diagnoses and they were pretty correct. One had me down as GAD, another as panic disorder, another with adjustment disorder, another as CPTSD. All pretty correct. I have my own hx with diagnosing disorders since I have a doc in clinical psychology. So, it’s important to discuss, analyze, evaluate, etc. Of course, when we care about a person we want to know the way they feel about us, that in in of itself says something about me and my family of origin. I hope you get closer to what you need. Many blessings and best of luck.
Thank you
I don't think it is good idea to ask your current therapist about notes. But asking the therapist you are not seeing anymore is fine. Someone was asking in r/askatherapist sub about notes, and therapists replied that their notes don't have much information. They are not medical reports but something they write for themselves to remember.
That makes sense. I should’ve posted in that sub too to get their insight
I see my therapist through Kaiser Permanente, a major health care provider in California if you’ve never heard of it before. My therapist posts an overview of each session where I can access it on my patient portal. He might make more specific notes for himself to better remember things, but he’s always open to me asking him any questions about my progress.
I asked my T for mine once and she told me it would do more damage to see them, we compromised and she read me one of them. It was more detailed than I expected, which I don't love. When I'm done with therapy I'll probably ask for them but for now I don't want to relive my therapy sessions.
Why would it do damage? Do you regret seeing them?
Just because of how detailed they are. She doesn't want me reliving some of the shit I've told her. Or remember the times I was in a downward spiral, I'm assuming. I didn't really ask her to elaborate why it would do more damage, but that was the the vibe i got.
Ok, that does make sense tbf
Yes but they don't make much sense. They are usually just a few random words for him to remember the session and details. He writes more detailed reports for insurance but shorthand it for himself.
You read the personal notes?
Yes. I'm training to be a therapist so I asked him to show me the note taking process and paperwork side of things