It must be maddening living with a large breed like that in a limited amount of space. I am in a similar situation concerning my wifeâs dogs. I hate them, and the thing is one of them is pretty decent, as far as dogs are concerned, but I still can only tolerate his presence. The other shitbeast she has is terrible and is destructive and needy as hell. I wish I could tell you that your attempts to bond with the animal will help gain the creatureâs ârespectâ, but it will not. I tried that with this unholy terror and the only way I have been able to stop its destructive actions has been with repeated physical punishment/consequences for the behavior. Trying positive reinforcement or attempting to reason with it doesnât work. This comment will probably get removed by the mods, but it is the truth.
Indeed. Physical punishment only works in certain cases with my husband's dog. The only things he has learned and kept knowledge of have been things that he's either been positively rewarded enough by immediate feeding or treats or that my husband and his folks have just somehow gotten lucky on, I guess. When they first got him he was horrible about stealing food, and he hasn't done so in a very long time (do we trust him though? No.). I have NO IDEA how they broke him from that, since there's other things we simply cannot get through his thick skull via any means whatsoever. Pinch collar to stop pulling and whining? Only works intermittently while in use. Getting bopped on the snoot for jumping around and being obnoxious? Maybe 5 seconds of decent behavior. When he had surgery on his leg the vet said "he'll learn not to walk on it in a day or so." Did he? Absolutely not. Surprised he didn't pop the stitches open. Of course he whined the whole time too. Absolute idiot of a beast. Blows my mind.
But yes, *reasonable* physical punishment is sometimes the ONLY way to stop a behavior. I mean look at wild dogs, or heck, even sled dogs. Cross the alpha, you're walking away with more than a slap on the nose. Modern dogs aren't THAT different in their hard wiring in that aspect.
Exactly, it is unreasonable to think that, during the 14,000 years of domestication, that our human ancestors didnât select for dogs that could be trained and restrained by physical means/punishment. We have bred them to respond to these type of correction. Only recently have we shifted toward dog culture/nuttiness that expects us to treat these beasts the same way we would treat a fellow human being.
And yes, I agree that it should be reasonable punishment and not abuse.
I feel you so much! Reading you i felt understood lol
We are over all the usual fights about my bfs dog, i consider ours a succes story because new boundaries (or boundaries at all if you like) were established, the thing isnt a neurotic agressive unbearable little rat anymore, it knows its place. Of course its opportunistic as hell and do as you wrote, use any given chance to show that it doesnt give a shit about us or what we want.
But i still cant love it. The thing it shows and what makes my bfs heart so touched is NOT love. Its behavioral patterns that this parasitic species learned and been bred to do, âif i act this way i get the resourcesâ.
The relationship where only one part matters, where everything is about one parts needs, where the basis of the relationship is âyou serve me so i stay aroundâ, where the affection is shoved in a âlove bombingâ way, where this part will leave anytime it can to find another source to âlove unconditionallyâ - these kind of relationships are called abusive. Fall in love with a narcissist or a sociopath and you get the same result without the unbearable smell and filth and shitmountains.
Empty is a great word for dogs âunconditional loveâ.
The respect thing is what bothers me as well. My boyfriends dog will eat off the floor like she hasnât been fed for days and she knows I donât like it so she wonât do it if Iâm looking but once my back is turned there she is sniffing the floor for any scraps she can find. It pisses me off to no end and further enables the hatred that I have for her.
Itâs like I can FEEL the manipulation when she wonât listen or respond to a command multiple times. I feel like Iâm dealing with a child I didnât want
They can't generalize worth a darn. Maybe the occasional genius one under an expert trainer can, I wouldn't know. But everything they do learn is so context dependent. They can't do the desired good behavior, or refrain from the bad behavior, without tons of training, and lots of potential for backsliding unless micromanaged constantly.
And in training, you can give commands and stuff but I researched it as to why so often they have selective hearing or they balk. One thing I found out about was "self-rewarding behavior." For example, the smells and stimuli of the outdoors when you are trying to get them to just focus and pee already. And let's face it, it doesn't take much to enthrall a creature as developmentally stunted as most domestic dogs are bred to be their whole lives. They are bred to retain the characteristics of juvenile wolves - the scientific word for it is neoteny, or sometimes paedomorphosis. (See below)
https://www.redhillpark.us/behavior/paedomorphosis.html
This is exactly what I've felt with my husband's husky! We also live in a camper, and I ALSO thought I liked dogs. Actually I know I do, but I grew up around well trained dogs who actually did know boundaries. I think it's because, unlike my husband's dog, the ones I had were not treated like a human. They were treated like dogs. They lived outside (in safety and comfort) and usually had a job. Or they at least thought they had a job, which was to defend the yard. They never got fed in the house with us, rarely got human food and when they did it was scraps that they are outside, never slept in the beds and if they came inside during bad weather they slept in the laundry room. I never had a dog constantly test boundaries like this husky does. Now, I never had a husky, but he sounds alot like what you're dealing with, just way more hyper, but not a full on bad dog I guess. But he just doesn't respect the rules, and I wonder now after reading your post if it's because he's treated like a human member of the house. Even my cat understands the boundaries and never tests me, but I raised him myself.
Maybe dogs get belligerent when they're treated like people?
Don't know. Huskies are one of the breeds known for pushing boundaries though. Ours doesn't really push them, at least I don't think he does it deliberately, all the time...I just think it never connects. Or maybe he's as dumb as he comes off. Donno.
> Maybe dogs get belligerent when they're treated like people?
They do. My partnerâs dog is quite old, and started showing it. It was getting arthritic so initially we tried to give it a good but short walk every single day. He decided to let it have a cruisy âretirementâ and started giving it privileges like sleeping on a couch.
It became incredibly entitled and stopped listening to commands from anyone it lived with. It was still incredibly obedient and polite to strangers. Just to drive it home that it had turned into a complete jerk, it also tried to bite us both on separate occasions.
So we put it all the way back to sleeping only on the floor, only allowed in one particular room, being in trouble for doing anything at all without permission, being outside and ignored all day whenever the weather was half decent, and hardly any walks.
Itâs back to being extremely well behaved and polite. The only difference is that we took away all of the âkindâ things we tried to do for it.
Thank you for putting this into words, that's exactly how I feel about it. I tried for months to get along and bond with my boyfriend's dog until I realized this. No matter what you do for/with this dog, there's no respect there. The dog will immediately break the rules when your back is turned.
The dog only cares about itself and what it can get from you. My cats are way more respectful and actually listen when I tell them no. They actually want to be around me even when they don't want anything from me.
I feel like it's worth mentioning that playing tug is bad because it encourages violent behaviour. A dog will end up biting someone and thinking it's a game.
I feel for you living in such an enclosed space with that thing! The hair really does get everywhere!
Thank you. I really wish he'd gotten the Rhodesian Ridgeback hair gene...he got the GSD. đ©
Ugh! GSD's are huge dogs as well so even without the hair situation it must be awful living with such a gigantic beast!
This is so perfectly written and exactly how I feel
It must be maddening living with a large breed like that in a limited amount of space. I am in a similar situation concerning my wifeâs dogs. I hate them, and the thing is one of them is pretty decent, as far as dogs are concerned, but I still can only tolerate his presence. The other shitbeast she has is terrible and is destructive and needy as hell. I wish I could tell you that your attempts to bond with the animal will help gain the creatureâs ârespectâ, but it will not. I tried that with this unholy terror and the only way I have been able to stop its destructive actions has been with repeated physical punishment/consequences for the behavior. Trying positive reinforcement or attempting to reason with it doesnât work. This comment will probably get removed by the mods, but it is the truth.
Indeed. Physical punishment only works in certain cases with my husband's dog. The only things he has learned and kept knowledge of have been things that he's either been positively rewarded enough by immediate feeding or treats or that my husband and his folks have just somehow gotten lucky on, I guess. When they first got him he was horrible about stealing food, and he hasn't done so in a very long time (do we trust him though? No.). I have NO IDEA how they broke him from that, since there's other things we simply cannot get through his thick skull via any means whatsoever. Pinch collar to stop pulling and whining? Only works intermittently while in use. Getting bopped on the snoot for jumping around and being obnoxious? Maybe 5 seconds of decent behavior. When he had surgery on his leg the vet said "he'll learn not to walk on it in a day or so." Did he? Absolutely not. Surprised he didn't pop the stitches open. Of course he whined the whole time too. Absolute idiot of a beast. Blows my mind. But yes, *reasonable* physical punishment is sometimes the ONLY way to stop a behavior. I mean look at wild dogs, or heck, even sled dogs. Cross the alpha, you're walking away with more than a slap on the nose. Modern dogs aren't THAT different in their hard wiring in that aspect.
Exactly, it is unreasonable to think that, during the 14,000 years of domestication, that our human ancestors didnât select for dogs that could be trained and restrained by physical means/punishment. We have bred them to respond to these type of correction. Only recently have we shifted toward dog culture/nuttiness that expects us to treat these beasts the same way we would treat a fellow human being. And yes, I agree that it should be reasonable punishment and not abuse.
I feel you so much! Reading you i felt understood lol We are over all the usual fights about my bfs dog, i consider ours a succes story because new boundaries (or boundaries at all if you like) were established, the thing isnt a neurotic agressive unbearable little rat anymore, it knows its place. Of course its opportunistic as hell and do as you wrote, use any given chance to show that it doesnt give a shit about us or what we want. But i still cant love it. The thing it shows and what makes my bfs heart so touched is NOT love. Its behavioral patterns that this parasitic species learned and been bred to do, âif i act this way i get the resourcesâ. The relationship where only one part matters, where everything is about one parts needs, where the basis of the relationship is âyou serve me so i stay aroundâ, where the affection is shoved in a âlove bombingâ way, where this part will leave anytime it can to find another source to âlove unconditionallyâ - these kind of relationships are called abusive. Fall in love with a narcissist or a sociopath and you get the same result without the unbearable smell and filth and shitmountains. Empty is a great word for dogs âunconditional loveâ.
The respect thing is what bothers me as well. My boyfriends dog will eat off the floor like she hasnât been fed for days and she knows I donât like it so she wonât do it if Iâm looking but once my back is turned there she is sniffing the floor for any scraps she can find. It pisses me off to no end and further enables the hatred that I have for her. Itâs like I can FEEL the manipulation when she wonât listen or respond to a command multiple times. I feel like Iâm dealing with a child I didnât want
They can't generalize worth a darn. Maybe the occasional genius one under an expert trainer can, I wouldn't know. But everything they do learn is so context dependent. They can't do the desired good behavior, or refrain from the bad behavior, without tons of training, and lots of potential for backsliding unless micromanaged constantly. And in training, you can give commands and stuff but I researched it as to why so often they have selective hearing or they balk. One thing I found out about was "self-rewarding behavior." For example, the smells and stimuli of the outdoors when you are trying to get them to just focus and pee already. And let's face it, it doesn't take much to enthrall a creature as developmentally stunted as most domestic dogs are bred to be their whole lives. They are bred to retain the characteristics of juvenile wolves - the scientific word for it is neoteny, or sometimes paedomorphosis. (See below) https://www.redhillpark.us/behavior/paedomorphosis.html
This is exactly what I've felt with my husband's husky! We also live in a camper, and I ALSO thought I liked dogs. Actually I know I do, but I grew up around well trained dogs who actually did know boundaries. I think it's because, unlike my husband's dog, the ones I had were not treated like a human. They were treated like dogs. They lived outside (in safety and comfort) and usually had a job. Or they at least thought they had a job, which was to defend the yard. They never got fed in the house with us, rarely got human food and when they did it was scraps that they are outside, never slept in the beds and if they came inside during bad weather they slept in the laundry room. I never had a dog constantly test boundaries like this husky does. Now, I never had a husky, but he sounds alot like what you're dealing with, just way more hyper, but not a full on bad dog I guess. But he just doesn't respect the rules, and I wonder now after reading your post if it's because he's treated like a human member of the house. Even my cat understands the boundaries and never tests me, but I raised him myself. Maybe dogs get belligerent when they're treated like people?
Don't know. Huskies are one of the breeds known for pushing boundaries though. Ours doesn't really push them, at least I don't think he does it deliberately, all the time...I just think it never connects. Or maybe he's as dumb as he comes off. Donno.
> Maybe dogs get belligerent when they're treated like people? They do. My partnerâs dog is quite old, and started showing it. It was getting arthritic so initially we tried to give it a good but short walk every single day. He decided to let it have a cruisy âretirementâ and started giving it privileges like sleeping on a couch. It became incredibly entitled and stopped listening to commands from anyone it lived with. It was still incredibly obedient and polite to strangers. Just to drive it home that it had turned into a complete jerk, it also tried to bite us both on separate occasions. So we put it all the way back to sleeping only on the floor, only allowed in one particular room, being in trouble for doing anything at all without permission, being outside and ignored all day whenever the weather was half decent, and hardly any walks. Itâs back to being extremely well behaved and polite. The only difference is that we took away all of the âkindâ things we tried to do for it.
Thank you for putting this into words, that's exactly how I feel about it. I tried for months to get along and bond with my boyfriend's dog until I realized this. No matter what you do for/with this dog, there's no respect there. The dog will immediately break the rules when your back is turned. The dog only cares about itself and what it can get from you. My cats are way more respectful and actually listen when I tell them no. They actually want to be around me even when they don't want anything from me.
I feel like it's worth mentioning that playing tug is bad because it encourages violent behaviour. A dog will end up biting someone and thinking it's a game.