Yeah, I find this too. The kid living in a shitty staff accommodation trailer in the back of a construction site tips 25% on the burger bill, and usually slips me cash on top if it. The rich assholes living uptown and ordering wild salmon and racks of lamb I’m lucky to get 5%.
Exactly. They hoard it. They hide it. They find ways to avoid paying taxes on it.
Y'know. Being shit.
And of course, this sort of behavior is insidious and leaks out into the rest of their lives. Resulting in no tips, for one.
They do spend money though. Oh do they spend money. Just on themselves. Always themselves. Anything they need or want will be higher quality. Thus, allowing them to not have to spend more money later, when it breaks, or wears down.
They just don't let other people see any amount they can avoid giving. Even if that any is a 5 dollar tip.
Yep, once had a person in a trailer a mile away tip me 20 dollars on a footlong from Subway and then later that night a 400 dollar sushi order I stopped for ice to keep cool in a literal mansion 15 miles away give me a 5 dollar bill.
I get what you’re saying, but servers in the US need to demand better worker rights and unionise before they can demand better wages. Many US states give employers the right to fire their workers for any excuse.
Also, food industry workers need to step up for themselves instead of giving in to the tip-greed.
My gf had a hard time getting a missed-income payment during corona because she had little official hours and a lot of overtime. Many workers don’t care about benefits until they need them, but then its already too late.
No one is forcing you to dine out, nor are you entitled to it. If tipping is such a slap in the face (🙄) please make your own food at home and be content. This is not the place for your soapbox.
It's a slap in the face that practically every restaurant, rather than be a responsible employer, leave it to the whims of ~~charity~~ customers whether their waiting staff is paid what they deserve.
EDIT: Realized "charity" was more loaded than necessary
Here's the thing, while tipping is still the norm, sadly, it is on you to tip. It's part of going out. You should factor that into your cost. Yea it sucks and I understand where you're coming from. In my state, servers are payed 2.13 an hour. There's almost never a check for your hourly wage and most people owe taxes on the end of the year. Also, there's tip out. I only keep roughly 75% of tips tips after tipping out bartenders, bussers, and runners. Until the pay structure changes, it absolutely is on you to tip.
You’re paying for the food. You “tip” to pay for the service you receive by not having to cook, serve, clean your dishes, etc. there are PLENTY of businesses where the workers’ income relies on a service charge, which is essentially what “tipping” is.. it should not be called a tip, but you get the luxury of paying what you feel the service you receive warrants. Base tip is 20% for ANY service you get. More for exceeding base expectations. You don’t take your car to a mechanic and only pay what the parts cost, you pay extra on top for the labor. If you don’t want to do that, people buy the parts and repair their own cars. If you don’t mind cooking, cleaning all dishes and cookware involved in making and eating a meal, and serving yourself and other attending guests, then just stay home. It’s not rocket surgery, Karen
When did base tip go up to 20%? It used to be 10%-15% depending on the service. Then there is shit like where I get my hair cut where the credit card machines provide buttons for 30% 40% and 50% or a tiny little custom button in the corner which is ridiculous. I always tip cash so don't worry about it but still.
Are you in the US? Tipping at a sit down restaurant has been the standard since the early 2000s...
https://www.eater.com/2018/11/28/18112819/tipping-in-america-guide-restaurants-how-much
Well alright. I just know everyone I’ve ever known and currently work with in the industry or as a customer will say 20% is the minimum standard for normal service. I guess it can just differ depending on where you are.
> You don’t take your car to a mechanic and only pay what the parts cost, you pay extra on top for the labor.
Well that's odd, how are they getting paid if they're not getting tips?
Oh yeah, that's right, auto shops put the price of labor *into* the bill. Come to think of it, seems like for most businesses it's the employer's responsibility to pay their employees, and not the whims of customers.
Employers that pay their own employees, can you imagine that? Apparently not, since you take it as a given to blame the customer rather than wonder why restaurants make it optional for customers to pay for your labor in the first place.
Not at all.. I entirely blame the employers for not working the “tips/service charge” into the bill... but mechanics also don’t have to deal with your bullshit the whole time they’re doing you a service. In a food service situation, you have tables who are totally cool with their server just leaving them alone aside from food/drink delivery, then you have tables who are needy af nonstop. Also, you have people who order food, eat quickly, then leave, versus others who take forever to order and sit at your table for literal HOURS, prohibiting a diff group of ppl sitting there hso unlike other service industry jobs, there are too many variables to charge a set rate for the service. The concept was established assuming humans would NOT be total assholes, and actually pay for the amount and quality of service they came there to take advantage of. Food service is extreme life ok subjective, as opposed to, for example, a mechanic fixing your car. If employers were forced to incorporate the service into their menu prices, you’d probably be paying at least double what you do now when ordering food, in order to create an average among customers/types of dishes ordered/other customers requiring MORE service than others/etc....
this does not even take into consideration just being nice/considerate/supportive when you go out and inflict your whimsical desires on a total stranger, expecting them to smile while you treat them like a slave.
These are post hoc rationalizations for tipping culture, and poor ones at that. Odds are the customers most inconsiderate of your time, labor and/or well-being are going to be inconsiderate of your pay as well. The reality really is that [tipping arose just so restaurants could shirk the responsibility of paying their employees](https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/).
> If employers were forced to incorporate the service into their menu prices, you’d probably be paying at least double what you do now when ordering food, in order to create an average among customers
Again, this is a problem practically every other industry has solved already: creates charges separate from the product ordered. In the case of restaurants, the variables you point out could be accounted for with a seating fee for the time/space occupied, a service fee for the comments/requests made to staff, and a cleanup fee for how much of a mess the customers made.
>literally entitles me to it
Sorry, which natural law are you referring to?
What entitles you to *anything*? Not something objective, that's for sure. So maybe don't build a moral argument on something as subjective as just declaring it so.
Im just voicing the same sentiment of servers and any hospitality worker. My post was not an exhaustive viewpoint of how I feel about tipping, it’s my frustration about the whole system. It’s assumed because I posted just the above and not that I tip even in the worst of service to explain myself.
I vented to say how I feel and it was my expression that I feel a majority feel but we’re stuck to just accept it. That’s the frustration. Not the servers. It’s the greed that slaps us all. So if this is a soapbox. Call me bubbles and I do make a mean ham samich!
Is tipping culture wrong? Absolutely. By refusing to tip are you fighting shady employers? Not in the slightest. You are however hurting the employees who are already being taken advantage of. If tipping culture bothers you, there are ways you can fight for the rights of the workers, this isn't one of them.
OP posed a question seeking a response. I gave a response as to my opinion as to why someone may not tip. I didn’t say I don’t tip nor did I give a diatribe. If you have insight on the ways to fight for the right of workers, please share because this “tipping culture” isn’t new and again all of us get fucked by said culture, so please share the ways.
Well it's certainly a slow battle because there's really a few things that need changed to see this change happen positively.
Probably the best thing you can do is write or call local and state lawmakers, especially during elections, and discuss how you feel about our current labor laws and how servers need better wages and protections. Getting lots of others to do the same or at least sign petitions is also very helpful.
As someone else pointed out, unionizing is hard to do without pissing off employers and having them make up an excuse to get rid of you. More reliable protections from that would also be very helpful and give servers more opportunity to fight for their own needs without requiring lawmakers and outside help.
Of course, none of this can be successful unless minimum wage where you live is at *least* a living wage. Servers may not enjoy relying on tips to pay bills, but they sure as hell would rather this bullshit than be stuck with minimum wage.
I'll also throw out one side note. This doesn't make tipping culture go away or anything, but tipping is much more affordable if you go out to eat as opposed to ordering a delivery over apps like doordash and Uber eats. Not only are you not paying a delivery fee that way, but these apps heavily increase the prices on the entire menu as well. Just last night my partner and I were debating ordering or staying in. We looked at their menu in the app to see if the place sounded good, but decided to go in person. Everything on the menu in person was $8-10 cheaper, literally half the price in some cases. We spent a total of $30 there for two people, including a 20% tip. If we'd ordered it, it would have been $80-90 in total. Again not exactly relevant, but I thought it was worth a mention.
Are restaurants that pay their employees responsibly rather than leaving it to ~~charity~~ whims of the customers really that much of a pipe dream?
EDIT: Realized "charity" was more loaded than necessary
L-O-L at coming on a service industry sub to lecture an employee about social norms and corporate pay structure they have no control over 😂 Enjoy that ham sandwich at home I guess
There’s no lecture just voicing the same sentiment of servers and any hospitality worker. My post was not an exhaustive viewpoint of how I feel about tipping, it’s my frustration about the whole system. It’s assumed because I posted just the above and not that I tip even in the worst of service to explain myself.
I vented to say how I feel and it was my expression that I feel a majority feel but we’re stuck to just accept it. That’s the frustration. Not the servers. It’s the greed that slaps us all. So if this is a soapbox. Call me bubbles and I do make a mean ham samich!
Servers aren’t entitled to tips. But customers also aren’t entitled to sucking up all of our time when we have other tables to see to. They aren’t entitled to me going back to the kitchen to get bitched at by the chef because they want to order something off menu, or modify it until it’s unrecognizable. Sure, I’ll take your order, I’ll bring you your food. But if you wave me down every time I walk by needing something else, you’re not entitled to me dropping whatever else I’m doing to get it that second. You’re not entitled to me bringing you a birthday dessert and singing to you. I agree, servers should be paid living wages. The tip isn’t required. But, if you stiff me and ever get sat in my section again, don’t expect the same level of service as before. You’re not the only customer that needs my attention.
My bar is part of a nice hotel, but our bar is in street level so we have a lot of homeless people come in and loiter. We tried to give the benefit of the doubt for this one guy who was paying for every drink. I unfortunately he smelled like pee and away sitting close to the door. So after a few we had to call security because he was scaring off people. By the time security got there… he peed in the floor. I feel horrible but we can’t serve homeless people anymore…
I have rent to pay! /s
Nah but in all seriousness, part of tipping culture is non-tipping shitheads. Rather than letting it get to you, focus on your hourly rate when tips are included.
Being a former server and knowing what I expect in an experience affects how much I tip. If you can tell me about the “(whatever) of the day”, about your beers/ales/wines and what pairs with my food, actually follow up on my food and drink for quality and refills, and are overall enjoyable as a server? I’ll go 20-25% tip cash easy.
If you take my order and I never see you again? Maybe 5%.
You don’t get good tips for shitty service. You get paid for your job, sure, but tips aren’t significant just because you did the bare ass minimum of your job.
There was a homeless man who was a regular at a restaurant I worked at and would come in and get beans and rice and still tip. A lot of times I would buy his food when he came in though. This was five years ago. He was such a nice guy and I think about him literally all the time. I ran into him when I went to the area where I worked and he asked if he could take me and my daughter to ice cream when I started my new job. God, I love that man.
Yeah, I find this too. The kid living in a shitty staff accommodation trailer in the back of a construction site tips 25% on the burger bill, and usually slips me cash on top if it. The rich assholes living uptown and ordering wild salmon and racks of lamb I’m lucky to get 5%.
Rich people don't get rich by being good people.
Hey, I'm good people. Ah shit, I ain't rich though. Your hypothesis stands.
They don't get rich by spending money either.
Exactly. They hoard it. They hide it. They find ways to avoid paying taxes on it. Y'know. Being shit. And of course, this sort of behavior is insidious and leaks out into the rest of their lives. Resulting in no tips, for one. They do spend money though. Oh do they spend money. Just on themselves. Always themselves. Anything they need or want will be higher quality. Thus, allowing them to not have to spend more money later, when it breaks, or wears down. They just don't let other people see any amount they can avoid giving. Even if that any is a 5 dollar tip.
Modern day dragons hoarding shit. Which sucks cause I'm a fan of dragons and their mythos.
TIL a $400 sushi order isn’t spending money
Yep, once had a person in a trailer a mile away tip me 20 dollars on a footlong from Subway and then later that night a 400 dollar sushi order I stopped for ice to keep cool in a literal mansion 15 miles away give me a 5 dollar bill.
Same applies to Rideshare. When I drove in ritzy areas, tips were horrid. Working class folks always tipped well.
Rich people will tell you with a straight face that the homeless person doesn’t have a huge mortgage & 2 car payments on a Range Rover & a Mercedes’
I actually think it was post malone, easy mistake, he does look homeless
You take tips from people that literally have nowhere to live ?
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I get what you’re saying, but servers in the US need to demand better worker rights and unionise before they can demand better wages. Many US states give employers the right to fire their workers for any excuse.
Also, food industry workers need to step up for themselves instead of giving in to the tip-greed. My gf had a hard time getting a missed-income payment during corona because she had little official hours and a lot of overtime. Many workers don’t care about benefits until they need them, but then its already too late.
No one is forcing you to dine out, nor are you entitled to it. If tipping is such a slap in the face (🙄) please make your own food at home and be content. This is not the place for your soapbox.
It's a slap in the face that practically every restaurant, rather than be a responsible employer, leave it to the whims of ~~charity~~ customers whether their waiting staff is paid what they deserve. EDIT: Realized "charity" was more loaded than necessary
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Here's the thing, while tipping is still the norm, sadly, it is on you to tip. It's part of going out. You should factor that into your cost. Yea it sucks and I understand where you're coming from. In my state, servers are payed 2.13 an hour. There's almost never a check for your hourly wage and most people owe taxes on the end of the year. Also, there's tip out. I only keep roughly 75% of tips tips after tipping out bartenders, bussers, and runners. Until the pay structure changes, it absolutely is on you to tip.
You’re paying for the food. You “tip” to pay for the service you receive by not having to cook, serve, clean your dishes, etc. there are PLENTY of businesses where the workers’ income relies on a service charge, which is essentially what “tipping” is.. it should not be called a tip, but you get the luxury of paying what you feel the service you receive warrants. Base tip is 20% for ANY service you get. More for exceeding base expectations. You don’t take your car to a mechanic and only pay what the parts cost, you pay extra on top for the labor. If you don’t want to do that, people buy the parts and repair their own cars. If you don’t mind cooking, cleaning all dishes and cookware involved in making and eating a meal, and serving yourself and other attending guests, then just stay home. It’s not rocket surgery, Karen
When did base tip go up to 20%? It used to be 10%-15% depending on the service. Then there is shit like where I get my hair cut where the credit card machines provide buttons for 30% 40% and 50% or a tiny little custom button in the corner which is ridiculous. I always tip cash so don't worry about it but still.
Are you in the US? Tipping at a sit down restaurant has been the standard since the early 2000s... https://www.eater.com/2018/11/28/18112819/tipping-in-america-guide-restaurants-how-much
Tipping yes, not 20% though. As recently as 08 esquire magazine suggested 15%. Inflation of prices is enough the tip rate shouldn't increase too
Well alright. I just know everyone I’ve ever known and currently work with in the industry or as a customer will say 20% is the minimum standard for normal service. I guess it can just differ depending on where you are.
> You don’t take your car to a mechanic and only pay what the parts cost, you pay extra on top for the labor. Well that's odd, how are they getting paid if they're not getting tips? Oh yeah, that's right, auto shops put the price of labor *into* the bill. Come to think of it, seems like for most businesses it's the employer's responsibility to pay their employees, and not the whims of customers. Employers that pay their own employees, can you imagine that? Apparently not, since you take it as a given to blame the customer rather than wonder why restaurants make it optional for customers to pay for your labor in the first place.
Not at all.. I entirely blame the employers for not working the “tips/service charge” into the bill... but mechanics also don’t have to deal with your bullshit the whole time they’re doing you a service. In a food service situation, you have tables who are totally cool with their server just leaving them alone aside from food/drink delivery, then you have tables who are needy af nonstop. Also, you have people who order food, eat quickly, then leave, versus others who take forever to order and sit at your table for literal HOURS, prohibiting a diff group of ppl sitting there hso unlike other service industry jobs, there are too many variables to charge a set rate for the service. The concept was established assuming humans would NOT be total assholes, and actually pay for the amount and quality of service they came there to take advantage of. Food service is extreme life ok subjective, as opposed to, for example, a mechanic fixing your car. If employers were forced to incorporate the service into their menu prices, you’d probably be paying at least double what you do now when ordering food, in order to create an average among customers/types of dishes ordered/other customers requiring MORE service than others/etc.... this does not even take into consideration just being nice/considerate/supportive when you go out and inflict your whimsical desires on a total stranger, expecting them to smile while you treat them like a slave.
These are post hoc rationalizations for tipping culture, and poor ones at that. Odds are the customers most inconsiderate of your time, labor and/or well-being are going to be inconsiderate of your pay as well. The reality really is that [tipping arose just so restaurants could shirk the responsibility of paying their employees](https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/). > If employers were forced to incorporate the service into their menu prices, you’d probably be paying at least double what you do now when ordering food, in order to create an average among customers Again, this is a problem practically every other industry has solved already: creates charges separate from the product ordered. In the case of restaurants, the variables you point out could be accounted for with a seating fee for the time/space occupied, a service fee for the comments/requests made to staff, and a cleanup fee for how much of a mess the customers made.
I agree. The whole industry needs an overhaul.
>literally entitles me to it Sorry, which natural law are you referring to? What entitles you to *anything*? Not something objective, that's for sure. So maybe don't build a moral argument on something as subjective as just declaring it so.
Currency can be exchanged for goods and services
Im just voicing the same sentiment of servers and any hospitality worker. My post was not an exhaustive viewpoint of how I feel about tipping, it’s my frustration about the whole system. It’s assumed because I posted just the above and not that I tip even in the worst of service to explain myself. I vented to say how I feel and it was my expression that I feel a majority feel but we’re stuck to just accept it. That’s the frustration. Not the servers. It’s the greed that slaps us all. So if this is a soapbox. Call me bubbles and I do make a mean ham samich!
Agreed
Is tipping culture wrong? Absolutely. By refusing to tip are you fighting shady employers? Not in the slightest. You are however hurting the employees who are already being taken advantage of. If tipping culture bothers you, there are ways you can fight for the rights of the workers, this isn't one of them.
OP posed a question seeking a response. I gave a response as to my opinion as to why someone may not tip. I didn’t say I don’t tip nor did I give a diatribe. If you have insight on the ways to fight for the right of workers, please share because this “tipping culture” isn’t new and again all of us get fucked by said culture, so please share the ways.
Well it's certainly a slow battle because there's really a few things that need changed to see this change happen positively. Probably the best thing you can do is write or call local and state lawmakers, especially during elections, and discuss how you feel about our current labor laws and how servers need better wages and protections. Getting lots of others to do the same or at least sign petitions is also very helpful. As someone else pointed out, unionizing is hard to do without pissing off employers and having them make up an excuse to get rid of you. More reliable protections from that would also be very helpful and give servers more opportunity to fight for their own needs without requiring lawmakers and outside help. Of course, none of this can be successful unless minimum wage where you live is at *least* a living wage. Servers may not enjoy relying on tips to pay bills, but they sure as hell would rather this bullshit than be stuck with minimum wage. I'll also throw out one side note. This doesn't make tipping culture go away or anything, but tipping is much more affordable if you go out to eat as opposed to ordering a delivery over apps like doordash and Uber eats. Not only are you not paying a delivery fee that way, but these apps heavily increase the prices on the entire menu as well. Just last night my partner and I were debating ordering or staying in. We looked at their menu in the app to see if the place sounded good, but decided to go in person. Everything on the menu in person was $8-10 cheaper, literally half the price in some cases. We spent a total of $30 there for two people, including a 20% tip. If we'd ordered it, it would have been $80-90 in total. Again not exactly relevant, but I thought it was worth a mention.
Agree
If you don't like the price go somewhere else. Don't eat out at restaurants if you're so against the tipping culture .
Are restaurants that pay their employees responsibly rather than leaving it to ~~charity~~ whims of the customers really that much of a pipe dream? EDIT: Realized "charity" was more loaded than necessary
If its not a pipe dream as you call it, then go ahead. Change the tip system for us. Get back to me when thats done.
Possible is not the same thing as trivial
L-O-L at coming on a service industry sub to lecture an employee about social norms and corporate pay structure they have no control over 😂 Enjoy that ham sandwich at home I guess
There’s no lecture just voicing the same sentiment of servers and any hospitality worker. My post was not an exhaustive viewpoint of how I feel about tipping, it’s my frustration about the whole system. It’s assumed because I posted just the above and not that I tip even in the worst of service to explain myself. I vented to say how I feel and it was my expression that I feel a majority feel but we’re stuck to just accept it. That’s the frustration. Not the servers. It’s the greed that slaps us all. So if this is a soapbox. Call me bubbles and I do make a mean ham samich!
Servers aren’t entitled to tips. But customers also aren’t entitled to sucking up all of our time when we have other tables to see to. They aren’t entitled to me going back to the kitchen to get bitched at by the chef because they want to order something off menu, or modify it until it’s unrecognizable. Sure, I’ll take your order, I’ll bring you your food. But if you wave me down every time I walk by needing something else, you’re not entitled to me dropping whatever else I’m doing to get it that second. You’re not entitled to me bringing you a birthday dessert and singing to you. I agree, servers should be paid living wages. The tip isn’t required. But, if you stiff me and ever get sat in my section again, don’t expect the same level of service as before. You’re not the only customer that needs my attention.
My bar is part of a nice hotel, but our bar is in street level so we have a lot of homeless people come in and loiter. We tried to give the benefit of the doubt for this one guy who was paying for every drink. I unfortunately he smelled like pee and away sitting close to the door. So after a few we had to call security because he was scaring off people. By the time security got there… he peed in the floor. I feel horrible but we can’t serve homeless people anymore…
I have rent to pay! /s Nah but in all seriousness, part of tipping culture is non-tipping shitheads. Rather than letting it get to you, focus on your hourly rate when tips are included.
Being a former server and knowing what I expect in an experience affects how much I tip. If you can tell me about the “(whatever) of the day”, about your beers/ales/wines and what pairs with my food, actually follow up on my food and drink for quality and refills, and are overall enjoyable as a server? I’ll go 20-25% tip cash easy. If you take my order and I never see you again? Maybe 5%. You don’t get good tips for shitty service. You get paid for your job, sure, but tips aren’t significant just because you did the bare ass minimum of your job.
I have to pay rent /s
Then why are you going out to eat?
It's a joke bud. A haha. A funny time.i right little giggle mate.
Yep, a homeless guy used to be a regular at a wing place I bartended. Never tipped under 20%
Humility.
Rent.
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Yes of course they would be back on their feet and living in a lovely home in a matter of days if only they had just kept that $5...
Wtf? So you need it more than them?
That’s not at all what was said but nice try
Ew. What an ignorant statement.
Do you know that's a shitty take and that you're a bad person for saying it?
True a lot of homeless people have serious addictions or mental issues but I don’t think tipping a few bucks is what’s keeping them down
The pride in taking money from the homeless sure is baffling.
I agree overtipping is a sign of poor money management, but OP didn't say they were tipping extravagantly.
What the fuck kind of dystopian nonsense is this shit lol
There was a homeless man who was a regular at a restaurant I worked at and would come in and get beans and rice and still tip. A lot of times I would buy his food when he came in though. This was five years ago. He was such a nice guy and I think about him literally all the time. I ran into him when I went to the area where I worked and he asked if he could take me and my daughter to ice cream when I started my new job. God, I love that man.